12 Year Old Used in Dems Radio Address Not So Poor

[red states rule]

Leave it to the liberal media not to do any fact checking on the "poor" child the Dems used in their radio address last Sat

Seems the kid comes from a well off family


The media jumped all over that 12 yr old and his plight and his plea, but they forgot one very important thing in their desire to further the Democratic politicians agenda.... FACT CHECKING.


Bonnie Frost works for a medical publishing firm; her husband, Halsey, is a woodworker. They are raising their four children on combined income of about $45,000 a year. Neither gets health insurance through work.


Once again, that was left up to bloggers, in this instance, someone from Free Republic (Hat Tip to The Corner) started digging, something the media as well as the Democrats didn't bother to do, obviously.


What the article does not mention is that Halsey Frost has owned his own company "Frostworks",since this marriage announcement in the NY Times in 1992 so he chooses to not give himself insurance. He also employed his wife as "bookkeeper and operations management" prior to her recent 2007 hire at the "medical publishing firm". As her employer, he apparently denied her health insurance as well.


His company, Frostworks, is located at 3701 E BALTIMORE ST. A building that was purchased for $160,000 in 1999. The buildings owner is listed as DIVERSIFIED INDUSTRIAL DESIGN CENTER, LLC whose mailing address is listed as 104 S Collington Ave which is the Frost's home. The commercial property he owns is also listed as the business address for another company called Reillys Designs which leads to the question of whether rental income is included in the above mentioned salary total


The current market value of their improved 3,040 SF home at 104 S Collington Ave is unknown but 113 S COLLINGTON AVE, also an end unit, sold for $485,000 this past March and it was only 2,060 SF. A photo taken in the family's kitchen shows what appears to be a recent remodeling job with granite counter tops and glass front cabinets


One has to wonder that if time and money can be found to remodel a home, send kids to exclusive private schools, purchase commercial property and run your own business... maybe money can be found for other things...maybe Dad should drop his woodworking hobby and get a real job that offers health insurance rather than making people like me (also with 4 kids in a 600sf smaller house and tuition $16,000 less per kid and no commercial property ownership) pay for it in my taxes.


OUCH.

Pretty much proves the points I made yesterday about the bill, instead of needing to expand the people and income levels made allowable, they needed to fix it so it will cover low income families (as it was created to do) and not higher income families that CAN afford private health coverage, but choose not to, so that they can mooch off the government (meaning those of us that pay taxes).

A question about the Frost family:

So with a yearly income of a "supposed" $45,000, and two kids going to a $20,000 a year school, per child, how are they living off of the remaining $5,000 a year....hell that doesn't even cover food for a family of four for a full year... maybe someone should check what other "public", government programs they are receiving money from.

You do not have to be a math wiz to figure out that the numbers do not add up.

http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree.blogspot.com/2007/10/schip-remember-that-12-year-old.html

[actsnoblemartin]

exactly

[stephanie]

I feel bad for the kids..
But their family and the Democrats should be ashamed for using them as a political pawn..

[SpidermanTUba]

Who cares?

Why do you want small businessmen to sell their businesses and go work for someone else? Do you hate small businessmen?

[darin]

YOU should care. You should be bothered by this.

[Trigg]

Who cares?

Why do you want small businessmen to sell their businesses and go work for someone else? Do you hate small businessmen?


The current market value of their improved 3,040 SF home at 104 S Collington Ave is unknown but 113 S COLLINGTON AVE, also an end unit, sold for $485,000 this past March and it was only 2,060 SF. A photo taken in the family's kitchen shows what appears to be a recent remodeling job with granite counter tops and glass front cabinets

I have to ask, did you read the article??? Because from what I read he has his own business and chooses not to get insurance. His "claims" of making 45,000 a year and not being able to afford insurance are bogus if he is living in a half million dollar house.

Should my hard earned tax dollars go to this person??? NO!!!!!!!!!

[Guernicaa]

First of all, I don't trust some stupid ass random blog by some retard that leaves no links to his facts.

If RSR wants to give us a credible link, then I'll believe it.
If this were true, Fox or WND or one of the right-wing media sources would have picked up on it.

[darin]

First of all, I don't trust some stupid ass random blog by some retard that leaves no links to his facts.

If RSR wants to give us a credible link, then I'll believe it.
If this were true, Fox or WND or one of the right-wing media sources would have picked up on it.

Search google - there are multiple sources about this.

[mrg666]

this is what its all about cut through the spin / bs this isnt a one off either

[avatar4321]

Who cares?

Why do you want small businessmen to sell their businesses and go work for someone else? Do you hate small businessmen?

why do you want rich parents to have their children supported by the tax payers?

Why dont these parents care enough about their kids health to buy them insurance?

[Psychoblues]

So far this conversation is 100% inaccurate and at least 100% hilarious. I'll leave you to your own devises to discover the truth in this instance.

Only one question, OK? What do you consider important in the American system of the healthcare of it's society?

[red states rule]

So far this conversation is 100% inaccurate and at least 100% hilarious. I'll leave you to your own devises to discover the truth in this instance.

Only one question, OK? What do you consider important in the American system of the healthcare of it's society?

Liberals are very generous with other peoples money. If you are going to use a poor kid to plead your case, at least make sure the kid is really poor

[PostmodernProphet]

First of all, I don't trust some stupid ass random blog by some retard that leaves no links to his facts.

If RSR wants to give us a credible link, then I'll believe it.
If this were true, Fox or WND or one of the right-wing media sources would have picked up on it.

I expect you are right, Obama....much better that you trust the DNC....after all, they are out there for the sole purpose of providing you the truth, right?:laugh2:

[red states rule]

I expect you are right, Obama....much better that you trust the DNC....after all, they are out there for the sole purpose of providing you the truth, right?:laugh2:

Damn, those pesky facts get in the way of a great tear jerker story again!!

[truthmatters]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/10/washington/10memo.html?_r=1&oref=slogin


Im so tired of the hate.

This family cannot get insurance because insurance companies will not cover them due to a preexsisting condition. They were in a car accident. They own a home worth arround 260, and own an income property which gives them modest rental income along with the jobs both parents work they make arround 55 thou a year.

Its amazing to me all the crying that was done for farmers who own millions of dollars worth of farm lands paying taxes yet this family who cannot get any insurance to take them no matter how much they pay is supposed to just become destitude just to get medicl coverage for their kids who have to have it.

Then what do republicans do when this family speaks out? Well they tell a long list of lies about them and reports the home adress of a 12 year old boy so that the nut bags can go harm them. I just cant believe how low people have sunk here and what they are willig to defend.


BTW that business the father owned failed in 1999.

[red states rule]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/10/washington/10memo.html?_r=1&oref=slogin


Im so tired of the hate.

This family cannot get insurance because insurance companies will not cover them due to a preexsisting condition. They were in a car accident. They own a home worth arround 260, and own an income property which gives them modest rental income along with the jobs both parents work they make arround 55 thou a year.

Its amazing to me all the crying that was done for farmers who own millions of dollars worth of farm lands paying taxes yet this family who cannot get any insurance to take them no matter how much they pay is supposed to just become destitude just to get medicl coverage for their kids who have to have it.

Then what do republicans do when this family speaks out? Well they tell a long list of lies about them and reports the home adress of a 12 year old boy so that the nut bags can go harm them. I just cant believe how low people have sunk here and what they are willig to defend.

True. Left wing moonbats who want cradle to grave handouts will stop at nothing to get as many people as possible dependendent on government to increase their power over them

[truthmatters]

True. Left wing moonbats who want cradle to grave handouts will stop at nothing to get as many people as possible dependendent on government to increase their power over them


does spreading lies make you happy?

Does it fill you with joy?

Why do you love wealthy farmers but hate peopel who cant get meidal insurance?

[red states rule]

Also, add this..........


To his credit, Herszenhorn got an undiluted opinion from one of the main Internet drivers of the issue.

"But Michelle Malkin, one of the bloggers who have strongly criticized the Frosts, insisted Republicans should hold their ground and not pull punches.


"'The bottom line here is that this family has considerable assets,' Ms. Malkin wrote in an e-mail message. 'Maryland's S-chip program does not means-test. The refusal to do assets tests on federal health insurance programs is why federal entitlements are exploding and government keeps expanding. If Republicans don't have the guts to hold the line, they deserve to lose their seats.'


"As for accusations that bloggers were unfairly attacking a 12-year-old, Ms. Malkin wrote on her blog, 'If you don't want questions, don't foist these children onto the public stage.'"


Malkin had more in her New York Post column Wednesday:

"What is verifiable: The Frosts own a home in Baltimore purchased for $55,000 16 years ago -- and now worth an estimated $300,000. That's a lot of equity. In addition, the children's father, Halsey Frost, owns commercial real estate and his own small business, but chose not to buy health insurance for himself and his wife, whom he hired as an employee. She now apparently works freelance at a medical-publishing firm, which also reportedly doesn't offer insurance."

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/clay-waters/2007/10/10/nyt-schip-controversy-conservative-bloggers-attacking-family-injured-ch

[darin]

They own a home worth arround 260, .

what makes you think that? OOH!! The bs 'article' using 'public records', eh?

Ya know? MY House tax-assessed value is ALWAYS 30-50% of market value. When we bought our home for $185k, the 'public records' documents showed the value at $25,000. This past year, our 'tax-assessed' value was $250k. Meanwhile, homes like ours are selling for well over 300k. Point is - 'tax-assessed' or 'public records' are generally WAY off base.

Now - if they purchased their home for $55k, what their home is worth NOW is NO indication of how they are doing, financially, except they are now paying higher property taxes.



they make around 55 thou a year.

What gives you that idea? That's 10K more than they claim.


Mrs. Frost has a part-time job at a firm that provides services to publishers of medical journals. Her job does not provide health coverage.

Why doesn't she quit her job, and get a job at a place that DOES offer health coverage?

[Sir Evil]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/10/washington/10memo.html?_r=1&oref=slogin


Im so tired of the hate.

As we are of the density



This family cannot get insurance because insurance companies will not cover them due to a preexsisting condition. They were in a car accident. They own a home worth arround 260, and own an income property which gives them modest rental income along with the jobs both parents work they make arround 55 thou a year.

Is it the democratic opinion to change the scheme of insurance companies as well? Many people are denied insurance due to existing health issues. Thats the business of insurance, why would they suddenly insure someone that will put them upside down in a policy?



Its amazing to me all the crying that was done for farmers who own millions of dollars worth of farm lands paying taxes yet this family who cannot get any insurance to take them no matter how much they pay is supposed to just become destitude just to get medicl coverage for their kids who have to have it.

Then what do republicans do when this family speaks out? Well they tell a long list of lies about them and reports the home adress of a 12 year old boy so that the nut bags can go harm them. I just cant believe how low people have sunk here and what they are willig to defend.


BTW that business the father owned failed in 1999.


Just curious as I have not read into this one so can you provide some links of these lies that the repubs made? I would think it would be rather low myself if that is the case.

[truthmatters]

The business failed in 1999.

The house is worth 260,000 ( how much equity do they really have do you know?)

The property gives them income.( how much equity do they have i this property do you really know?)

Insurance companies refuse to insure them.

What you want to see happen is them sell everything they own and the only home they have to pay for the kids medical care so that then they can be destitude and then go on all the government programs. You are a souless human being.

Now would you like to tell me why this kid had to have his home address put into the media so he could be harmed and stalked by nut bags?

[red states rule]

does spreading lies make you happy?

Does it fill you with joy?

Why do you love wealthy farmers but hate peopel who cant get meidal insurance?

It is not my fault the left outsourced their radio time to a 12 year old and now the facts about the kids parents are coming out

His parents can easily get medical ins for the family if they get off their ass, and not depend on the taxpayers to provide it

[darin]

what makes you think that? OOH!! The bs 'article' using 'public records', eh?

Ya know? MY House tax-assessed value is ALWAYS 30-50% of market value. When we bought our home for $185k, the 'public records' documents showed the value at $25,000. This past year, our 'tax-assessed' value was $250k. Meanwhile, homes like ours are selling for well over 300k. Point is - 'tax-assessed' or 'public records' are generally WAY off base.

Now - if they purchased their home for $55k, what their home is worth NOW is NO indication of how they are doing, financially, except they are now paying higher property taxes.




What gives you that idea? That's 10K more than they claim.



Why doesn't she quit her job, and get a job at a place that DOES offer health coverage?

Hey TM - answer those?

[truthmatters]

So you are just going to continue spreading the lies I have just shown you the right is spewing about this family?

You are not worthy of the care you recieved.

[Sir Evil]

So you are just going to continue spreading the lies I have just shown you the right is spewing about this family?

You are not worthy of the care you recieved.

:laugh2:

what a rock.

[red states rule]

So you are just going to continue spreading the lies I have just shown you the right is spewing about this family?

You are not worthy of the care you recieved.

It seems the truth really does not matter to you at all. This story has more holes in it then a slice of swiss cheese

Since the liberal media did not do any fact checking, the bloggers had to

[Sir Evil]

from her link:



An aide to Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican leader, expressed relief that his office had not issued a press release criticizing the Frosts.


Yet she claims the republican are creating lies about this case. Can you provide something a bit stronger truth?

[red states rule]

from her link:



Yet she claims the republican are creating lies about this case. Can you provide something a bit stronger truth?

That is like asking Ted Kennedy to stop drinking

[truthmatters]

Its been hard but Im being to accept there are people who think lies are just fine.

There are some people in this country who refuse to accept the truth and are just as happy to use lies about people when they think it benifits them.

RSR is lucky to have medical coverage for his condition yet would with Glee lie about another family who can not get any coverage because they were in an accident and he would perfer to tell lies about the family and see them harmed because they spoke out.

This is the country we now live in.

This is now your republican party.

They would set up a family with kids to be harmed to help spread the lies they need to spew to pacify their base.

Im sure you are very proud.

[darin]

So you are just going to continue spreading the lies I have just shown you the right is spewing about this family?

You are not worthy of the care you received.

Are you going to answer my reply?

[red states rule]

Its been hard but Im being to accept there are people who think lies are just fine.

There are some people in this country who refuse to accept the truth and are just as happy to use lies about people when they think it benifits them.

RSR is lucky to have medical coverage for his condition yet would with Glee lie about another family who can not get any coverage because they were in an accident and he would perfer to tell lies about the family and see them harmed because they spoke out.

This is the country we now live in.

This is now your republican party.

They would set up a family with kids to be harmed to help spread the lies they need to spew to pacify their base.

Im sure you are very proud.

Not lucky TM - I WORK for a living and PAY for my coverage. Even if I did not have coverage, I would not even think about having someone else pay for my medical expenses

This family has many different means to pay for their own ins. They would rather have someone eles pay for it. They have bought in to the liberal mindset that they are entitled to "free" health ins

[Sir Evil]

Its been hard but Im being to accept there are people who think lies are just fine.

There are some people in this country who refuse to accept the truth and are just as happy to use lies about people when they think it benifits them.

RSR is lucky to have medical coverage for his condition yet would with Glee lie about another family who can not get any coverage because they were in an accident and he would perfer to tell lies about the family and see them harmed because they spoke out.

This is the country we now live in.

This is now your republican party.

They would set up a family with kids to be harmed to help spread the lies they need to spew to pacify their base.

Im sure you are very proud.

How about all them lies? can you provide a little something or what?

[truthmatters]

Hey TM - answer those?


Ooops your right I misread the article ist 45,000. 55000 is the cut off.

Maybe she needs to watch the kids?

Why do you hate these people so much you dot care that their home adress was given and now they are in danger?

[red states rule]

Ooops your right I misread the article ist 45,000. 55000 is the cut off.

Maybe she needs to watch the kids?

Why do you hate these people so much you dot care that their home adress was given and now they are in danger?

Last I checked, it was public information.

In danger of what? Having the truth exposed?

To late for that TM

[darin]

Ooops you're right I misread the article it's 45,000. 55000 is the cut off.

Maybe she needs to watch the kids?

Why do you hate these people so much you dot care that their home adress was given and now they are in danger?

Why do you hate me so much that you'd want to see MORE of my money taken to support folk who refuse to support themselves?

Their house value is irrelevant. Their income - their CHOICE of employer, however, is not.

FWIW, $45k is PLENTY to support a family. Plenty.

[Sir Evil]

FWIW, $45k is PLENTY to support a family. Plenty.

And supporting a claim is for free, and she is yet to do it.:dunno:

[avatar4321]

does spreading lies make you happy?

Does it fill you with joy?

Why do you love wealthy farmers but hate peopel who cant get meidal insurance?

I dont know. Does it? Youd be the expert on it wouldnt you?

Why do you insist that the government provide medical insurance for a family making 80,000 a year?

[red states rule]

I dont know. Does it? Youd be the expert on it wouldnt you?

Why do you insist that the government provide medical insurance for a family making 80,000 a year?

Given how Democrats want to raise taxes on couples making $80,000/year - they not be able to afford to get their own insurance

With what the left wants to do to us, we will all be on welfare but we will have health care

[truthmatters]

Why do you hate me so much that you'd want to see MORE of my money taken to support folk who refuse to support themselves?

Their house value is irrelevant. Their income - their CHOICE of employer, however, is not.

FWIW, $45k is PLENTY to support a family. Plenty.


It is doable.

Now how do you get medical coverage when NO insurance company will insure you?

This means you are paying medical bills for two brain injured kids on 45000 a year.

This is why medical bills are the number one reason sited for bankruptcy today.

[red states rule]

It is doable.

Now how do you get medical coverage when NO insurance company will insure you?

This means you are paying medical bills for two brain injured kids on 45000 a year.

This is why medical bills are the number one reason sited for bankruptcy today.

Most employer provided insurance do NOT have per existing condition clauses - it is a group plan

At most there may be a one year exclusion

Mommy and Daddy will have to find a job that has the benefit

There are plans out there TM. I am fed up with the left finding new ways to pick my pocket for more social programs

[gabosaurus]

Not that EITHER side is especially prone to fact checking and use of props. Bush's pseudo Thanksgiving turkey comes to mind. It is merely politics as usual.

[darin]

It is doable.

Now how do you get medical coverage when NO insurance company will insure you?

This means you are paying medical bills for two brain injured kids on 45000 a year.

This is why medical bills are the number one reason sited for bankruptcy today.


It's more than doable. 45K can be a comfortable lifestyle. :)

How do you get medical coverage when you are un-insurable? Medicare. Other plans. Shriners. Hard Work.

[red states rule]

Not that EITHER side is especially prone to fact checking and use of props. Bush's pseudo Thanksgiving turkey comes to mind. It is merely politics as usual.

Like a Thanksgiving turkey compares to outright BS the left tried with this "poor" kid

The only reason the left was pissed over Pres Bush's trip to the troops on Thanksgiving was he did it and they did not (and the cheers from the troops did not go over well with them either)

[gabosaurus]

Both sides use propaganda to their advantage. Why point out just one?

[red states rule]

Both sides use propaganda to their advantage. Why point out just one?

any examples or are you in spin mode? Libs put out a 12 year old and they get busted on the facts

[gabosaurus]

Willie Horton comes to mind.

[red states rule]

Willie Horton comes to mind.

Al Gore was the first politican to use Willie Horton

(and the ad was correct)

and you have to back more then 20 years to find an example?

[Trigg]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/10/washington/10memo.html?_r=1&oref=slogin


Im so tired of the hate.

This family cannot get insurance because insurance companies will not cover them due to a preexsisting condition. They were in a car accident. They own a home worth arround 260, and own an income property which gives them modest rental income along with the jobs both parents work they make arround 55 thou a year.

Its amazing to me all the crying that was done for farmers who own millions of dollars worth of farm lands paying taxes yet this family who cannot get any insurance to take them no matter how much they pay is supposed to just become destitude just to get medicl coverage for their kids who have to have it.

Then what do republicans do when this family speaks out? Well they tell a long list of lies about them and reports the home adress of a 12 year old boy so that the nut bags can go harm them. I just cant believe how low people have sunk here and what they are willig to defend.


BTW that business the father owned failed in 1999.

I could have missed in, but in this article I didn't find anywhere that it was stated the family has a pre-existing condition that causes them to be refused healthcare.

A FEW FACTS:

1. Anyone refused healthcare can get cobra and then get on medicare if they are unable to work. The rest of the family that does not have problems can get insurance from whomever they choose.

2. Where in the article does it say the husband does not have his business?

3. If the father does not have his business anymore why does he not get a job? My husband would love to be doing "what he loves" but it doesn't pay the bills. The man needs to support the family he brought into this world.

4. The mother only works part-time, she needs to get a full time job that offers insurance. Since the father presumably is at home, the children are still taken care of.

5. WHY are the kids in private school????? Mine arn't and I'm not living in a $250,000 house. Why don't they pull their kids out and then they would have an extra $20,000 a year.

6. They have a rental property that can be sold.

7. WHO is threatening to harm them??? Publishing an address is as simple as looking in the phone book. Not that hard and certainly not the "harm" you are inventing. Have they been threatened????

No one "hates these people", but they are making poor choices and I should not be responsible for taking care of them. They are not "working poor".

Bottom line they are choosing to send their kids to private school, choosing to work part-time or not at all and choosing to not insure those family members that do NOT have a pre-existing condition (although your link didn't say this as far as I could find).

[red states rule]

Dems are desperate to try and take the attention away from these pesky facts.

How else will they be able to take the first step toward government run health care is people start finding out the truth?

[stephanie]

Dems are desperate to try and take the attention away from these pesky facts.

How else will they be able to take the first step toward government run health care is people start finding out the truth?

That's why they put a kid out there...So that if people do ask questions, then they can be blamed for attacking a kid...
They couldn't stand up like an adult and make their case for it, because they know people wouldn't buy it......They throw a kid out for bait...

Pretty low politics..But not new for the Democrats..

[red states rule]

That's why they put a kid out there...So that if people do ask questions, then they can be blamed for attacking a kid...
They couldn't stand up like an adult and make their case for it, because they know people wouldn't buy it......They throw a kid out for bait...

Pretty low politics..But not new for the Democrats..

I learned a long time ago, the ONLY thing that matters to libs is their political power. They do not care about anything else

Now lie is to big, no attack is to over the top, no distortion to unwarrented

The ends will always justify the means if it brings the Dems more power and more people dependent on government

[Trigg]

That's why they put a kid out there...So that if people do ask questions, then they can be blamed for attacking a kid...
They couldn't stand up like an adult and make their case for it, because they know people wouldn't buy it......They throw a kid out for bait...

Pretty low politics..But not new for the Democrats..

Exactly!!

This poor child has no insurance because of the bad choices his family continues to make.

The rest of us should not have to pay for their insurance simply because they choose to send their kids to private schools and only work part-time.

[truthmatters]

I could have missed in, but in this article I didn't find anywhere that it was stated the family has a pre-existing condition that causes them to be refused healthcare.

A FEW FACTS:

1. Anyone refused healthcare can get cobra and then get on medicare if they are unable to work. The rest of the family that does not have problems can get insurance from whomever they choose.

the husband and wife both work and the childern cant because they are childern and both have brain injuries from a car accident.









2. Where in the article does it say the husband does not have his business?



One critic, in an e-mail message to Graeme’s mother, Bonnie, warned: “Lie down with dogs, and expect to get fleas.” As it turns out, the Frosts say, Graeme attends the private school on scholarship. The business that the critics said Mr. Frost owned was dissolved in 1999. The family’s home, in the modest Butchers Hill neighborhood of Baltimore, was bought for $55,000 in 1990 and is now worth about $260,000, according to public records. And, for the record, the Frosts say, their kitchen counters are concrete.




3. If the father does not have his business anymore why does he not get a job? My husband would love to be doing "what he loves" but it doesn't pay the bills. The man needs to support the family he brought into this world.






Mr. Frost works intermittently in woodworking and as a welder, while Mrs. Frost has a part-time job at a firm that provides services to publishers of medical journals. Her job does not provide health coverage.





4. The mother only works part-time, she needs to get a full time job that offers insurance. Since the father presumably is at home, the children are still taken care of.





Certainly the Frosts are not destitute. They also own a commercial property, valued at about $160,000, that provides rental income. Mr. Frost works intermittently in woodworking and as a welder, while Mrs. Frost has a part-time job at a firm that provides services to publishers of medical journals. Her job does not provide health coverage.


In a telephone interview, the Frosts said they had recently been rejected by three private insurance companies because of pre-existing medical conditions. “We stood up in the first place because S-chip really helped our family and we wanted to help other families,” Mrs. Frost said.

“We work hard, we’re honest, we pay our taxes,” Mr. Frost said, adding, “There are hard-working families that really need affordable health insurance.”






5. WHY are the kids in private school????? Mine arn't and I'm not living in a $250,000 house. Why don't they pull their kids out and then they would have an extra $20,000 a year.


One critic, in an e-mail message to Graeme’s mother, Bonnie, warned: “Lie down with dogs, and expect to get fleas.” As it turns out, the Frosts say, Graeme attends the private school on scholarship. The business that the critics said Mr. Frost owned was dissolved in 1999. The family’s home, in the modest Butchers Hill neighborhood of Baltimore, was bought for $55,000 in 1990 and is now worth about $260,000, according to public records. And, for the record, the Frosts say, their kitchen counters are concrete.












“We work hard, we’re honest, we pay our taxes,” Mr. Frost said, adding, “There are hard-working families that really need affordable health insurance.”







6. They have a rental property that can be sold.

It provides part of their income from the rent they get from it.






7. WHO is threatening to harm them??? Publishing an address is as simple as looking in the phone book. Not that hard and certainly not the "harm" you are inventing. Have they been threatened????

No one "hates these people", but they are making poor choices and I should not be responsible for taking care of them. They are not "working poor".

Bottom line they are choosing to send their kids to private school, choosing to work part-time or not at all and choosing to not insure those family members that do NOT have a pre-existing condition (although your link didn't say this as far as I could find).http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article2641548.eceGraeme Frost agreed to give the Democrats’ response to Mr Bush’s radio address last week, on the emotive subject of children’s health insurance. Since then his family have received threatening e-mails, abusive telephone calls and the wrath of conservative talk-show hosts and the right-wing blogosphere.



why do you keep repeteing the lies?

[Sir Evil]

why do you keep repeteing the lies?

Why don't you support what you claim are lies?

[red states rule]

Exactly!!

This poor child has no insurance because of the bad choices his family continues to make.

The rest of us should not have to pay for their insurance simply because they choose to send their kids to private schools and only work part-time.


It seems the left wants folks who cannot afford to send their kids to a private school and live in an upscale home to pay for their health ins so the Frost's will not have to give up their private schools and their upscale home

[truthmatters]

how sad is it that you refuse to read anything posted.

All the questions so far are answered right in the article yet you all refuse to read and comprehend it.

[Trigg]

why do you keep repeteing the lies?

What lies??? I read your article you are the one not comprehending what is written.

1. The kids can't work, no shit. But the parents CAN and if the children have brain injuries they can be on perminant disability paid for by the gov. it's called medicaid

2. This one still stands. If he is working intermittantly he should find a full time job. Working part time as a wordworker is a great retirement job after the kids have moved out, but not if he can not support them. The mother also needs to get a full time job.

3. The kids are in private school, ok it's paid for with a scholership. Since they are in school 7-8 hours a day the parents CAN WORK. They can work different shifts, you know those pesky 2nd or 3rd shifts so that one is always at home for the kids.

4. Rental properties provide income yes, but they also cost for upkeep and taxes, not to mention insurance. They can sell this property, unless it pays for itself and still shows a profit it is not a good investment.


I am not repeating lies. I am reading off of the links YOU PROVIDE, are they not accurate???

Lastly you said Both children are brain injured and then state this is a family of 6. Both is 2...in case you didn't know that. Maybe you should check your facts and get back to us. I'll only use the sources you provide so you don't attack mine. Deal.............????????

[Sir Evil]

how sad is it that you refuse to read anything posted.

All the questions so far are answered right in the article yet you all refuse to read and comprehend it.

Where are the lies the republican are spreading in this article for starters?

How sad is it that you have yet to point this out after it was asked several times.

[PostmodernProphet]

This family cannot get insurance because insurance companies will not cover them due to a preexsisting condition.

now I am confused....these folks were put forward as needing help to pay for their insurance because they could not afford it.....now it seems that they couldn't get insurance because of a preexisting condition.....did the Dems figure that if the government paid for it the preexisting condition was going to go away?

[red states rule]

Where are the lies the republican are spreading in this article for starters?

How sad is it that you have yet to point this out after it was asked several times.

Is "there are none" to obvious an answer?

[truthmatters]

What lies??? I read your article you are the one not comprehending what is written.

1. The kids can't work, no shit. But the parents CAN and if the children have brain injuries they can be on perminant disability paid for by the gov. it's called medicaid.

The father works as a welder and a woodworker.




2. This one still stands. If he is working intermittantly he should find a full time job. Working part time as a wordworker is a great retirement job after the kids have moved out, but not if he can not support them. The mother also needs to get a full time job.

Where is your proof the economy where he lives provides these kind of jobs?


3. The kids are in private school, ok it's paid for with a scholership. Since they are in school 7-8 hours a day the parents CAN WORK. They can work different shifts, you know those pesky 2nd or 3rd shifts so that one is always at home for the kids.

how do you know the hours of thier shooling?

4. Rental properties provide income yes, but they also cost for upkeep and taxes, not to mention insurance. They can sell this property, unless it pays for itself and still shows a profit it is not a good investment.

How do you know how much equity they have in the income property?


I am not repeating lies. I am reading off of the links YOU PROVIDE, are they not accurate???

Lastly you said Both children are brain injured and then state this is a family of 6. Both is 2...in case you didn't know that. Maybe you should check your facts and get back to us. I'll only use the sources you provide so you don't attack mine. Deal.............????????

where did I say it was a family of six?

[Sir Evil]

Is "there are none" to obvious an answer?

I think so but I was waiting for the pet rock to back up her claim, what an imbecile.

[red states rule]

Mark Tapscott wrote a great article on the MSM dropping the ball of this story (or did they even want the abll in the first place?)

snip

When I first started working with and among journalists in the mid-1970s, there was still enough of the old school skepticism in the ranks that I quickly learned a good reporter always assumed there was more to a story than was being told by any one participant in it, which meant you had to keep digging and asking, digging and asking, to get all of the facts.

Put otherwise, you had to have a healthy skepticism about everything you were told by politicians, office-holders and public policy advocates across the entire political spectrum. But I see less and less of that kind of healthy skepticism among journalists when it comes to claims and conduct by Democrats and liberal activists.

Increasingly, getting the whole story about an issue in public policy these days starts with the Blogosphere because to a growing extent that is where you find educated skepticism and a willingness to dig for the facts.

http://www.examiner.com/blogs/tapscotts_copy_desk/2007/10/7/Dems-Potemkin-SCHIP-kid-exposed-in-Blogosphere-Where-was-the-MSM

[Trigg]

where did I say it was a family of six?

I honestly don't know why I bother debating with you.

I'm sure there are no full time jobs in the area, yep that's why they don't both work. You said the following.


BTW that business the father owned failed in 1999.

Now, does he work as a welder and woodworker or has his business failed. Cause you can't have it both ways. If the business failed, like you stated above, than he needs to get another job.


Do you honestly think the hours of their private school are any different than EVERY other school system out there??? Please, just once, pull you head out of your ass.



a self-employed woodworker, of choosing not to provide insurance for his family of six

Your own article states this is a family of six, at least do youself a favor and read what you post. It also states he is still self-employed, he needs to quit the hobby and get a real job that will support the familiy.

I know to many people who work 2nd and 3rd shift jobs so they don't have to pay daycare. I'm sorry if I don't feel sorry for these people. They choose the life they lead and apparently still want more. They are already getting free private school and still they choose not to work. They do not get my sympathy.

The children, if they are perminantly disabled, should receive medicaid. What should be asked is WHY they arn't getting it.

[avatar4321]

I honestly don't know why I bother debating with you.

I'm sure there are no full time jobs in the area, yep that's why they don't both work. You said the following.



Now, does he work as a welder and woodworker or has his business failed. Cause you can't have it both ways. If the business failed, like you stated above, than he needs to get another job.


Do you honestly think the hours of their private school are any different than EVERY other school system out there??? Please, just once, pull you head out of your ass.




Your own article states this is a family of six, at least do youself a favor and read what you post. It also states he is still self-employed, he needs to quit the hobby and get a real job that will support the familiy.

I know to many people who work 2nd and 3rd shift jobs so they don't have to pay daycare. I'm sorry if I don't feel sorry for these people. They choose the life they lead and apparently still want more. They are already getting free private school and still they choose not to work. They do not get my sympathy.

The children, if they are perminantly disabled, should receive medicaid. What should be asked is WHY they arn't getting it.

this is exactly what is so wrong about liberalism. if it told the truth about what it was doing, no one would listen. So they have to make things up like with this family.

[red states rule]

Leave it to Dems to use kids as political props and to lie and smear in an attempt to have government run health care

A sinking SCHIP
In their zeal to eke out an override of President Bush's veto on a bloated children's health insurance program, Democrats have sunk to a new low.

With just days left until the scheduled Oct. 18 override vote, Democrats and their allies have launched a multimillion- dollar nationwide campaign, particularly in vulnerable Republican districts, hoping to dredge up the 15 or so Republican votes needed to override Mr. Bush's veto of the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP).

Perhaps the most shameful episode in this campaign is the case of Rep. Lincoln Diaz-Balart, Florida Republican. This week the Florida Democratic Party issued a news release and the national Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee made press calls attacking Mr. Diaz-Balart for helping nine disabled Ukrainian children obtain prosthetic limbs from generous Floridians. The children's travel arrangements, prosthetics and medical care were all paid for by private donors. Mr. Diaz-Balart also arranged a trip to a Miami Seaquarium for the children.

Florida Democrats were snide at Mr. Diaz-Balart's goodwill efforts to obtain care for the impoverished Ukrainian children, many of whom had lost limbs in farming accidents.

"Children in Diaz-Balart's district deserve access to the same quality health care he arranged for his guests," Miami-Dade Democratic Party Chairman Joe Garcia said. "Hopefully he'll learn from the Seaquarium mascot Flipper and change his vote against children's health insurance when Congress attempts to override the President's senseless veto."

Honest, bipartisan policy disagreements are one thing. Insulting a man for bringing hope to ailing children in a country recovering from an oppressive regime is another.

Mr. Diaz-Balart stood by the principles of small government when he voted against Democrats' proposal to expand SCHIP by $35 billion over five years, a figure seven times higher than Mr. Bush's proposal to increase the program by $5 billion. The White House blasted the Democratic proposal to extend SCHIP coverage to adults and upper-middle income families with incomes of up to $83,000 for a family of four as a march toward socialized medicine. We agree.

A former member of the then-House International Relations Committee, Mr. Diaz-Balart has a proven record of humanitarian outreach. It is unconscionable that the Democrats are lampooning his beneficent efforts in order to score cheap political points. We hope Mr. Diaz-Balart and his House colleagues will stand firm.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071013/EDITORIAL/110130003/1013

[stephanie]

The Democrat party in our government can crawl as low as a snake......

Vote for a Democrat.......You can crawl with them...:cheers2:

[bullypulpit]

Liberals are very generous with other peoples money. If you are going to use a poor kid to plead your case, at least make sure the kid is really poor

You didn't answer the question. Answer the damn question.

<blockquote>What do you consider important in the American system of the healthcare of it's society?</blockquote>

[red states rule]

You didn't answer the question. Answer the damn question.

<blockquote>What do you consider important in the American system of the healthcare of it's society?</blockquote>

I do not see why people think they are entitled to health care from the government.

The 46 million number the left toses out is inflated. 20 million are illegals, about 10 million decide to waive health care form their employers, and some are rich enough to pay for their health care on their own

The less governmnt in health care the better

[actsnoblemartin]

Its true that many of them are illegal, many waive it.


I do not see why people think they are entitled to health care from the government.

The 46 million number the left toses out is inflated. 20 million are illegals, about 10 million decide to waive health care form their employers, and some are rich enough to pay for their health care on their own

The less governmnt in health care the better

[red states rule]

Its true that many of them are illegal, many waive it.

If you change jobs, and you have a day day gap in health ins - even though you now have health ins with your new exployer, you are included in the uninsured number

[truthmatters]

I do not see why people think they are entitled to health care from the government.

The 46 million number the left toses out is inflated. 20 million are illegals, about 10 million decide to waive health care form their employers, and some are rich enough to pay for their health care on their own

The less governmnt in health care the better

Where is your proof of these claims?

[red states rule]

Where is your proof of these claims?

http://www.businessandmedia.org/printer/2007/20070718153509.aspx

[truthmatters]

http://www.businessandmedia.org/printer/2007/20070718153509.aspx


This is a totally bias sight full of nothing but propaganda.

For once in your life start to think for yourself instead of allowing these idiots to feed you propaganda all day long.

[red states rule]

This is a totally bias sight full of nothing but propaganda.

For once in your life start to think for yourself instead of allowing these idiots to feed you propaganda all day long.

Yea TM, numbers and facts from the US Census Office is propaganda - when thye blow your liberal lies out of the water

[truthmatters]

http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2007/08/28/insurance-big-jump-in-number-of-uninsured-americans/

This one actually gives you links to were they get their figures from.




http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/news_conferences/010500.html
The number and percentage of uninsured Hispanics increased from 14 million (32.3 percent) in 2005 to 15.3 million (34.1 percent).
So tell me how did the crazy woman who wrote that artcle come up with the crazy numbers she got?






Originally Posted by red states rule
I do not see why people think they are entitled to health care from the government.

The 46 million number the left toses out is inflated. 20 million are illegals, about 10 million decide to waive health care form their employers, and some are rich enough to pay for their health care on their own

The less governmnt in health care the better




Now can you show me where the hell she gets these nutty numbers from?

[red states rule]

http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2007/08/28/insurance-big-jump-in-number-of-uninsured-americans/

This one actually gives you links to were they get their figures from.





The number and percentage of uninsured Hispanics increased from 14 million (32.3 percent) in 2005 to 15.3 million (34.1 percent).
So tell me how did the crazy woman who wrote that artcle come up with the crazy numbers she got?

Undocumented Immigrants Most Likely To Be Uninsured, RAND Finds

A recent RAND Corporation report shows undocumented immigrants are most likely to be uninsured, ballooning the pool of uninsured persons by one-third in the United States in the past two decades.

In stark contrast to the study’s 17 percent native born, 23 percent naturalized citizen, and 38 percent immigrants with permanent status who stated they were uninsured, nearly 68 percent of undocumented immigrant adults in the study did not have healthcare insurance.

Principal researchers of the study, published in the November/December 2005 edition of the journal Health Affairs, argue that their results illustrate the necessity to open and continue dialogue about healthcare and undocumented immigrants simultaneously.

The study found that public insurance (such as Medicaid) was received by 13 percent of native born citizens in addition to 10 percent of naturalized citizens and 10 percent of permanent residents, in comparison to the mere eight percent of undocumented immigrants who receive it. According to researchers, most of those undocumented immigrants who were insured were covered by their employers.

With respect to continual insurance coverage, undocumented immigrants were disproportionately represented as chronically uninsured (lacking health insurance for a consecutive two year period), making up 65 percent of that group. This is in comparison to their native born, naturalized, and permanent resident counterparts with the respective percentages of 12, 18, and 32.

The study examined 2,400 English or Spanish speaking adults from Los Angeles County between 2000 and 2001. Los Angeles is comprised of the largest immigrant population in the nation.

Compared to only five percent found in 1970, over half of the undocumented immigrants reported living in the US for less than five years. Also striking, according to the authors, is that between 1980 and 2000, the number of adults in the nation without health insurance increased by 8.7 million. Undocumented immigrants, nationwide, account for approximately a third of this increase.

The study concluded that factors contributing to the lack of health insurance for foreign born adults include lower educational attainment, low incomes, and employment in industries that do not offer insurance such as agriculture.

Additional information about this RAND study can be found at www.rand.org.

[truthmatters]

Who is the Rand corp?

Lets see how they come up with theses numbers?

Lets see their documantation of the study?

GUESS WHAT?

You wont find it because they wont give it.

They are KNOWN for their ties to the Military Industiral complex.

They are a think tank designed to keep the money rolling into the art of war.

[truthmatters]

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/...es/010500.html
The number and percentage of uninsured Hispanics increased from 14 million (32.3 percent) in 2005 to 15.3 million (34.1 percent).


These are the census numbers. They tell the story and your right wing sources wont use them. They wont use any numbers they will let you see the full documentation on because they are lying.



http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/health/bal-te.frosts10oct10,0,4459992.story?page=1

the real story of this family.

[red states rule]

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/...es/010500.html
The number and percentage of uninsured Hispanics increased from 14 million (32.3 percent) in 2005 to 15.3 million (34.1 percent).


These are the census numbers. They tell the story and your right wing sources wont use them. They wont use any numbers they will let you see the full documentation on because they are lying.



http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/health/bal-te.frosts10oct10,0,4459992.story?page=1

the real story of this family.

I know the left wants to open the borders (and the doors to the US Treasury) to illegals - but it is a losing issue

The Baltimore Sun on of the liberal papers that did not do any fact checking. It took this story as the Dems gave it to them

[bullypulpit]

Leave it to the liberal media not to do any fact checking on the "poor" child the Dems used in their radio address last Sat

Seems the kid comes from a well off family


The media jumped all over that 12 yr old and his plight and his plea, but they forgot one very important thing in their desire to further the Democratic politicians agenda.... FACT CHECKING.


Bonnie Frost works for a medical publishing firm; her husband, Halsey, is a woodworker. They are raising their four children on combined income of about $45,000 a year. Neither gets health insurance through work.


Once again, that was left up to bloggers, in this instance, someone from Free Republic (Hat Tip to The Corner) started digging, something the media as well as the Democrats didn't bother to do, obviously.


What the article does not mention is that Halsey Frost has owned his own company "Frostworks",since this marriage announcement in the NY Times in 1992 so he chooses to not give himself insurance. He also employed his wife as "bookkeeper and operations management" prior to her recent 2007 hire at the "medical publishing firm". As her employer, he apparently denied her health insurance as well.


His company, Frostworks, is located at 3701 E BALTIMORE ST. A building that was purchased for $160,000 in 1999. The buildings owner is listed as DIVERSIFIED INDUSTRIAL DESIGN CENTER, LLC whose mailing address is listed as 104 S Collington Ave which is the Frost's home. The commercial property he owns is also listed as the business address for another company called Reillys Designs which leads to the question of whether rental income is included in the above mentioned salary total


The current market value of their improved 3,040 SF home at 104 S Collington Ave is unknown but 113 S COLLINGTON AVE, also an end unit, sold for $485,000 this past March and it was only 2,060 SF. A photo taken in the family's kitchen shows what appears to be a recent remodeling job with granite counter tops and glass front cabinets


One has to wonder that if time and money can be found to remodel a home, send kids to exclusive private schools, purchase commercial property and run your own business... maybe money can be found for other things...maybe Dad should drop his woodworking hobby and get a real job that offers health insurance rather than making people like me (also with 4 kids in a 600sf smaller house and tuition $16,000 less per kid and no commercial property ownership) pay for it in my taxes.


OUCH.

Pretty much proves the points I made yesterday about the bill, instead of needing to expand the people and income levels made allowable, they needed to fix it so it will cover low income families (as it was created to do) and not higher income families that CAN afford private health coverage, but choose not to, so that they can mooch off the government (meaning those of us that pay taxes).

A question about the Frost family:

So with a yearly income of a "supposed" $45,000, and two kids going to a $20,000 a year school, per child, how are they living off of the remaining $5,000 a year....hell that doesn't even cover food for a family of four for a full year... maybe someone should check what other "public", government programs they are receiving money from.

You do not have to be a math wiz to figure out that the numbers do not add up.

http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree.blogspot.com/2007/10/schip-remember-that-12-year-old.html

You are such a dupe, and a willing one at that.

[stephanie]

From what I've been hearing...They've already dumped this poor little boy..

Their bringing in a two yr.old Thursday...

Kinda reminds me of some other organizations...using children..

Pathetic..

[red states rule]

You are such a dupe, and a willing one at that.

What's the matter BP?

Another staged vicitm by the left is shown to be a fraud?

Damn those bloogers for pointing out the facts.

[red states rule]

From what I've been hearing...They've already dumped this poor little boy..

Their bringing in a two yr.old Thursday...

Kinda reminds me of some other organizations...using children..

Pathetic..

Dan Rather found the kis and the documents to support his need for taxpayer paid health care

[stephanie]

What's the matter BP?

Another staged victim by the left is shown to be a fraud?

Damn those bloggers for pointing out the facts.

Well.......some of us are labeled Dubes......

And the Democrats.....in my opinion are and should be labeled........

SHEEEEEEEEEEPPPP......:cow:

[Immanuel]

why do you want rich parents to have their children supported by the tax payers?

Why dont these parents care enough about their kids health to buy them insurance?

Possibly because they just don't need it.

As a business owner, he can most likely afford any of the normal day to day risks that a 12 year old can come up against. A broken arm or leg would be no problem to him. Let's just pray that they never come up against any of the tough issues like Cancer or MD.

Immie

[PostmodernProphet]

From what I've been hearing...They've already dumped this poor little boy..


don't count on it....they will probably run him out again if they need a spokesman for illegal immigration.....