Obama wants to be an instrument for God

[BoogyMan]

I have many times heard liberals pan the president for speaking of faith and his desire to do the will of God. Now we have Obama, not only making a political speech from the pulpit (an action considered anathema for a conservative), we also have him desirous of being an "instrument of God."

I will be waiting for the cat calls and consistent calls for the endangerment of the tax-free status of the church to which Obama spoke.



Source: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/10/07/obama-gop-doesnt-own-faith-and-values/

GREENVILLE, South Carolina (CNN) — After speaking to an evangelical church on Sunday in this traditionally conservative South Carolina city, Sen. Barack Obama said that Republicans no longer have a firm grip on religion in political discourse.

"I think its important particularly for those of us in the Democratic party to not cede values and faith to any one party," Obama told reporters outside the Redemption World Outreach Center where he attended services.

"I think that what you're seeing is a breaking down of the sharp divisions that existed maybe during the nineties, when at least in politics the perception was that the Democrats were fearful of talking about faith, and on the other hand you had the Republicans who had a particular brand of faith that often times seemed intolerant or pushed people away," he said.

Obama noted that he was pleased leaders in the evangelical community like T.D. Jakes and Rick Warren were beginning to discuss social justice issues like AIDS and poverty in ways evangelicals were not doing before.

"I think that's a healthy thing, that we're not putting people in boxes, that everybody is out there trying to figure out how do we live right and how do we create a stronger America," Obama said.

During the nearly two hour service that featured a rock band and hip-hop dancers, Obama shared the floor with the church's pastor, Ron Carpenter. The senator from Illinois asked the multiracial crowd of nearly 4,000 people to keep him and his family in their prayers, and said he hoped to be "an instrument of God."

"Sometimes this is a difficult road being in politics," Obama said. "Sometimes you can become fearful, sometimes you can become vain, sometimes you can seek power just for power's sake instead of because you want to do service to God. I just want all of you to pray that I can be an instrument of God in the same way that Pastor Ron and all of you are instruments of God."

He finished his brief remarks by saying, "We're going to keep on praising together. I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth."

Asked by CNN if he talks about faith more in churchgoing South Carolina than he does in the other early voting states of Iowa and New Hampshire, Obama said: "I don't talk about it all the time, but when I'm in church I talk about it."

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,

1. But,...Errr,..don't hold your breath Boogyman.
2. The public outcry about political figures making speeches in churches only applies to Republicans.
3. Seeing Republicans own the Religious Vote.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[manu1959]

he is black.....he will get a pass.....btw......obama's god is allah.....wait and see....

[Abbey Marie]

Somebody call an ambulance for boogyman. I am afraid he is holding his breath waiting for an answer, and oxygen deprivation is dangerous. :coffee:

[avatar4321]

If i believed he was sincere id say go for it. I wish more people would want to be instruments for God. Unfortunately most people dont care and some who might claim to want it will really be using it for personal fame and gratification.

[PostmodernProphet]

I say we leave the fundamentalists in charge of the Republican party and have the evangelicals and Catholics make a full move to take over the Democrats.......

[Immanuel]

I too would like to know what is the difference between what Barack Obama said here and the statements George Bush has made about God and Religion throughout his political career. I can tell Boogyman and Abbey have their opinions. I can't figure out CWN for the life of me! Nor am I certain about Manu. Avatar and PmP seem to be moderate on the issue.

Is there anyone that will share the point of view that Obama's statements were okay and different than what Bush said? Bush was accused of trying to tear down the Separation of Church and State by the left, at least that is how I saw it. Is what Obama doing any different?

Personally, I feel Bush was pandering to an audience and so is Obama.

CWN quick question, could it be that liberals are afraid of speaking out in favor of Obama's speech because of the retalliation they would expect from the majority of the site? I've been here two days and it is obvious that unlike another site I'm on, this site is heavily stacked to the right. It seems to me that a lefty had better be strong willed to stand up to the abuse they take here.

Immie

[Gaffer]

I too would like to know what is the difference between what Barack Obama said here and the statements George Bush has made about God and Religion throughout his political career. I can tell Boogyman and Abbey have their opinions. I can't figure out CWN for the life of me! Nor am I certain about Manu. Avatar and PmP seem to be moderate on the issue.

Is there anyone that will share the point of view that Obama's statements were okay and different than what Bush said? Bush was accused of trying to tear down the Separation of Church and State by the left, at least that is how I saw it. Is what Obama doing any different?

Personally, I feel Bush was pandering to an audience and so is Obama.

CWN quick question, could it be that liberals are afraid of speaking out in favor of Obama's speech because of the retalliation they would expect from the majority of the site? I've been here two days and it is obvious that unlike another site I'm on, this site is heavily stacked to the right. It seems to me that a lefty had better be strong willed to stand up to the abuse they take here.

Immie

Bush is definitely a panderer when it comes to religion. And so is obama.

As for the libs getting slammed here. That's because they lie or come in with their talking points. They get called on it here and don't get a free pass. They are use to getting away with their shit on other boards and get called on here.

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,

1. But Obama may or may not feel he is close to Gawd, as far as I know, he could think he is destined to be *The Next President*.
2. The problem revolves with all the Neoliberal spin being going on about how *President Bush*, said some things that tell where his heart is as far as Gawd is concerned.
3. Seeing Obama belongs to this Neoliberal Party, he is betraying his base.
4. Because the Neoliberals hate anything Gawdly, or sent by Gawd.
5. One has to wonder who the religious types are within the Neoliberal Party, and what voice can they use in the party.
6. There is always Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton I suppose.
7. But do these people really represent what would be considered a *True Christian*?
8. In my view, these two are nothing but Racists, and without conscience, they scare most *Christians* to death.
9. There are some foundational truths of the Neoliberal Party, that I find fault with, and its sickening.
10. I won't even need to point them out.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[BoogyMan]

Somebody call an ambulance for boogyman. I am afraid he is holding his breath waiting for an answer, and oxygen deprivation is dangerous. :coffee:

LOL, you got that one right, the hypocrisy is maddening.

[Abbey Marie]

Bush is definitely a panderer when it comes to religion. And so is obama.

As for the libs getting slammed here. That's because they lie or come in with their talking points. They get called on it here and don't get a free pass. They are use to getting away with their shit on other boards and get called on here.

You hit that right on the head in your second paragraph, Gaffer.

[Immanuel]

LOL, you got that one right, the hypocrisy is maddening.

Doggone it breathe before someone has to give you mouth to mouth!

It ain't coming from me so breathe!

Immie

[Immanuel]

As for the libs getting slammed here. That's because they lie or come in with their talking points. They get called on it here and don't get a free pass. They are use to getting away with their shit on other boards and get called on here.

Okay, first I don't believe every liberal is a liar just like I don't believe every conservative white male is racist which I was told was the case today on another site. Well not every conservative white male but a good percentage of them.

There are liberal liars and sorry to say there are conservative liars.

Second, would someone please send me a copy of the Democratic take on this? I'd really like to see how they defend it. After all, I spent almost four and a half years trying to defend George Bush, I demand someone return the favor. ;) Please. :laugh2:

Immie

[BoogyMan]

Doggone it breathe before someone has to give you mouth to mouth!

It ain't coming from me so breathe!

Immie

I have this mental picture of you standing over me going "I don't think you are going to make it man!"

LOL

[JohnDoe]

he is black.....he will get a pass.....btw......obama's god is allah.....wait and see....

what makes you say that obama's God is Allah, when he is a Christian?

jd

[Immanuel]

what makes you say that obama's God is Allah, when he is a Christian?

jd

Not that you are wrong, but what makes you think he is a Christian? The fact that he appeared at a church and knew some of the lingo? I believe there has never been a President elected that was not perceived to be Christian. Even Bill Clinton carried a Bible into the sanctuary of a church once or twice.

If you want that job you will make sure you are seen with a Bible in your hands at least a few times. If he were muslim, he would know that the chances of him being elected if that got out, especially in today's political atmosphere, were about as great as a mackerel in a tank full of sharks.

Come to think of it, if I were running against him and not honest, I might drop a few hints that he was a muslim. With a name like Obama, it would not be hard to convince people that he was.

Immie

[JohnDoe]

Not that you are wrong, but what makes you think he is a Christian?

Ummm, because he has been his entire life?

The fact that he appeared at a church and knew some of the lingo? I believe there has never been a President elected that was not perceived to be Christian. Even Bill Clinton carried a Bible into the sanctuary of a church once or twice.

Are you implying that you have determined that Bill Clnton is NOT a Christian?

If you want that job you will make sure you are seen with a Bible in your hands at least a few times. If he were muslim, he would know that the chances of him being elected if that got out, especially in today's political atmosphere, were about as great as a mackerel in a tank full of sharks.

Again, you can go and find a bio on him, he is a Christian and has been one his entire life as far as I know, WHAT MAKES YOU think otherwise...propaganda that is out there?

Come to think of it, if I were running against him and not honest, I might drop a few hints that he was a muslim. With a name like Obama, it would not be hard to convince people that he was.

It's already been DONE and the republicans have JUMPED all over it and are using it where ever they can... where have you been.... they are even promoting that it was the Hillary camp that put the doubt out there to a Moony run magazine... and the hil camp denies and barak knows it wasn't hil so that leaves the pubs doing the spin game I suppose...?

Immie

jd

[Immanuel]

jd,

Did I say you were wrong? No, but I don't know that he is a Christian nor do I know that he is not. Nor do I really care, since, I'm not voting for him anyway.

Again, in order to win a Presidential election one must be perceived as a Christian. To be perceived as anything else is the end of a campaign.

As for Bill C. I don't know whether he is Christian or not. Much like The Revs Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, I can't recall him ever stating anything at all about God, The Son of God or the Holy Spirit. Walking into church carrying a Bible does not a Christian make.

Immie

[PostmodernProphet]

but what makes you think he is a Christian?

he identifies himself as an evangelical Christian who believes in Jesus Christ as his savior....you can say that he has done it just to get elected, but remember that he is running for the Democratic nomination.....evangelical Christians are not highly regarded by Democrats at the moment......

[Immanuel]

he identifies himself as an evangelical Christian who believes in Jesus Christ as his savior....you can say that he has done it just to get elected, but remember that he is running for the Democratic nomination.....evangelical Christians are not highly regarded by Democrats at the moment......

Does he?

I would not say that about him. It is not for me to decide.

Romans 2:1

"1You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things."

I do not judge Obama's statements. I pray he is serious. I did not state that he was muslim. I only asked how jd knew this information since she asked what made Manu make his? statement.

I was only asking jd a question. Not making a statement that he was not Christian.

Immie

[JohnDoe]

jd,

Did I say you were wrong? No, but I don't know that he is a Christian nor do I know that he is not. Nor do I really care, since, I'm not voting for him anyway.

Again, in order to win a Presidential election one must be perceived as a Christian. To be perceived as anything else is the end of a campaign.

As for Bill C. I don't know whether he is Christian or not. Much like The Revs Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, I can't recall him ever stating anything at all about God, The Son of God or the Holy Spirit. Walking into church carrying a Bible does not a Christian make.

Immie

yes, i suppose, just like all of us posting we are Christians here on this board doesn't mean we are one either, in your thinking?

and let me ask, how many times has GWB professed Christ as lord and Savior and called on Christ's name, or the Son of God? do you know? do you question as to whether he is a christian or not?

i believe barak is a member of the united church of christ, but uncertain....mfm knows but i think he's been banned for something? maybe that was another thread?

how do we know you are truely a Christian immanuel? should we doubt it, when you claim it? :slap:

and yes, i really do get your point on all politicians needing to be a Christian for vote pandering, but they also need to be alot of other things too, in order to win.

and obama will not be getting my vote either, that is not the point, imo!

jd

[Immanuel]

Are you implying that you have determined that Bill Clnton is NOT a Christian?

No, but I knew it would get a rise out of you. :laugh2:

It did, didn't it?

Immie

[JohnDoe]

No, but I knew it would get a rise out of you. :laugh2:

It did, didn't it?

Immie

:eek:

hahaha! IT WORKED!!!

darn, shoulda saw it coming!!!!! lol

jd

[Immanuel]

yes, i suppose, just like all of us posting we are Christians here on this board doesn't mean we are one either, in your thinking?

Of course it does not mean we are all Christian. Some people go to church for the status of going to church. Some go for the business connections. There are many reasons why non Christians attend church, just as there are many reasons for Christians not to attend church. Heck, why do you think we Christians are labeled hypocrits? We have all these non-christians pretending to be Christians making us look bad... as if we need any help. :poke:


and let me ask, how many times has GWB professed Christ as lord and Savior and called on Christ's name, or the Son of God? do you know? do you question as to whether he is a christian or not?

Do I know how many times he has professed Christ as Lord? No, couldn't tell you, but I can tell you that I have heard him speak about his faith.


i believe barak is a member of the united church of christ, but uncertain....mfm knows but i think he's been banned for something? maybe that was another thread?

That's fine. I only asked how you know. I don't believe I said he was not a Christian. Did I?



how do we know you are truely a Christian immanuel?

Most here don't, even you don't for sure, but you have known me for long enough elsewhere that you know my beliefs. I'll not justify them with anyone. I'll let the Holy Spirit speak though me if he so chooses.


should we doubt it, when you claim it? :slap:

1 John 4:1

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

You should test my words and test my spirit. When you find me making an error in judgement you should rebuke me. I welcome it.

Immie

[JohnDoe]

Of course it does not mean we are all Christian. Some people go to church for the status of going to church. Some go for the business connections. There are many reasons why non Christians attend church, just as there are many reasons for Christians not to attend church. Heck, why do you think we Christians are labeled hypocrits? We have all these non-christians pretending to be Christians making us look bad... as if we need any help. :poke:



Do I know how many times he has professed Christ as Lord? No, couldn't tell you, but I can tell you that I have heard him speak about his faith.



That's fine. I only asked how you know. I don't believe I said he was not a Christian. Did I?




Most here don't, even you don't for sure, but you have known me for long enough elsewhere that you know my beliefs. I'll not justify them with anyone. I'll let the Holy Spirit speak though me if he so chooses.



1 John 4:1

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

You should test my words and test my spirit. When you find me making an error in judgement you should rebuke me. I welcome it.

Immie

Ditto, to that in bold!

jd

[JohnDoe]

Immie,

btw, I have never heard GWB speak of Jesus Christ, I have only heard him speak about God, the father. I would love to see some quotes of GWB's that involve Christ...

---------------------------------------------------------------

Also, I believe politicians have every right to address the citizens that gather at a church, or a fair, or a work place or a homeless shelter, or at the American Legion or where ever they want to speak.

Where I have a problem is when Church leaders tell their parish that they can not be Christians if they vote Democratic. (which did happen)

Also, when Church leaders use their power to INFLUENCE an election, by telling their congregation that they will be excommunicate from their church IF they don't vote for republicans. (which did happen)

I have a problem with their not for profit status if they get involved in politics and use their power and might and money to influence an election....when it is clearly against the law/rules for ANY non profit and ANY not for profit entity.
(which did happen)

but speaking to people, individuals, that happened to be gathered in a Church...let the best man win.... let them speak to their hearts content.

HOPEFULLY the individual people gathered in this Church will see their future leaders clearly and know if their hearts are in the right place....or if they are just being pandered to.... but this decision is up to the individuals to decide, that are in this Church gathering or at a VFW or the American Legion etc, where the politicians also could be pandering to that particular crowd, for their vote, and not be sincere in what they say.

jd

[PostmodernProphet]

I was only asking jd a question. Not making a statement that he was not Christian.

/shrugs.....looked like one.....

[Abbey Marie]

...
Where I have a problem is when Church leaders tell their parish that they can not be Christians if they vote Democratic. (which did happen)
...



Do you have a problem with the black churches that tell their parishoners that they cannot be Christian (or truly black, for that matter) if they vote Republican?

[Immanuel]

/shrugs.....looked like one.....

My apologies. It was not intended to do so.

Immie

[Immanuel]

Immie,

btw, I have never heard GWB speak of Jesus Christ, I have only heard him speak about God, the father. I would love to see some quotes of GWB's that involve Christ...

---------------------------------------------------------------

Also, I believe politicians have every right to address the citizens that gather at a church, or a fair, or a work place or a homeless shelter, or at the American Legion or where ever they want to speak.

Where I have a problem is when Church leaders tell their parish that they can not be Christians if they vote Democratic. (which did happen)

Also, when Church leaders use their power to INFLUENCE an election, by telling their congregation that they will be excommunicate from their church IF they don't vote for republicans. (which did happen)

I have a problem with their not for profit status if they get involved in politics and use their power and might and money to influence an election....when it is clearly against the law/rules for ANY non profit and ANY not for profit entity.
(which did happen)

but speaking to people, individuals, that happened to be gathered in a Church...let the best man win.... let them speak to their hearts content.

HOPEFULLY the individual people gathered in this Church will see their future leaders clearly and know if their hearts are in the right place....or if they are just being pandered to.... but this decision is up to the individuals to decide, that are in this Church gathering or at a VFW or the American Legion etc, where the politicians also could be pandering to that particular crowd, for their vote, and not be sincere in what they say.

jd

jd,

I'm not sure where you got the impression that I had a problem with Obama speaking in the church. I don't know enough about him. In my first post, I was not attempting to state that I did not believe he was a Christian. The point I intended to make, that seems to have gotten lost in this discussion, was that his opponents might make the insinuation that he was muslim in order to destroy his chances of winning. I believe that either side, Republican or his opponents for the Democratic Nomination are capable of making this claim and there is not a one of them that would not try it if they thought it would help them.

I'm not planning on voting for Obama. Not because he's black. Not because his Christian. Not because he's male. Not because he's a Democrat. Not if he were a Republican. I absolutely refuse to support any candidate that puts a D or an R after their names this year and it will be difficult to support one with any initial after their name. GWB failed me. I was sucked into his net the last two times and for many reasons that you know of, I will not be so again by any party.

In the long run, I suppose I will vote for someone. I don't know who at the moment but I will be doggoned if I am going to support in the election and later defend the President of the United States in 2009 and beyond. I won't be trapped this time around. I WILL support the office of the President of the United States as whoever that is he/she will be the leader of my country. Whoever that is will have my prayers and support as a citizen of this country. But, I WILL not be making excuses for them this time around and I have every intention of holding their feet to the flames and standing up for the Constitution this time around before the next one completes tearing it to shreads.

Immie

:salute::salute::salute: