How Likely For US To Fall Into Tyranny?

[Kathianne]

I read this in awe, it reflects what I've seen happening for more than a decade. For me it started with IRS messing with tax exemptions only on the right, that was under Obama. Trump was under much more oversight, but expressed desire to punish enemies. Biden has gone over the top, put right out there with Marines guarding him during speech vilifying the right.

https://lawliberty.org/descending-into-tyranny/?utm_source=LAL+Updates&utm_campaign=fb192baa75-LAL+Updates&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_53ee3e1605-fb192baa75-72412681


ESSAY SEPTEMBER 8, 2022The Descent into Tyranny
When you lean over in a canoe on a river, the boat tilts but then rights itself. But if there is too much pressure on one side, the canoe tips past a certain point and becomes a capsized canoe. It has flotation pads at both ends, so it doesn’t sink, but the situation of the canoe has changed from a floating maneuverable craft to a newly stable, but sad, state.


The tipping point from one condition to another can occur unexpectedly to those who have never experienced a capsizing. People in developing nations are not surprised when their government turns over. But those of advanced democracies grew complacent, even though we know that democracies that appear stable can capsize. Between 1850 and 1930, Austria-Hungary, Germany, Italy, Japan, and the Ottoman Empire turned into tyrannies. Since the year 2000, there has been a massive increase in the number of people living under tyranny, with fully 80 percent of the world’s population living in countries that Freedom House classifies as not having “free” government systems. In fact, as of 2021, 58 countries, with 38 percent of the world’s population, are now classified as full-on “not free” systems, having collapsed into tyranny.


It is tempting to think “it can’t happen here.” But Americans are more concerned about that than they have been in decades. In July, a CNN poll indicated that 48 percent of respondents think it is “likely” or “somewhat likely” that state actors will successfully overturn the results of a US election because their party did not win.


We, the present authors, are worried that putatively upright countries today are in danger of descending into tyranny. A tyranny—once capacities for control and despotism are constructed, in some cases including expansive government employment, dependency, and largesse—can be nearly impossible to reform. The key to the descent into tyranny, and the stability of tyranny once it is achieved, is this: Tyrants use tyranny to fortify their keep and to protect themselves against the sanctions due them for their crimes.


Calling tyranny “stable” may seem paradoxical. Tyrannies suffer from chaotic upheavals and violent paroxysms. But the state of tyranny itself is stable, like a capsized canoe. Ordered liberty is better for everyone—aside, perhaps, from the despotic faction and their affiliates. It is difficult to restore the rule of law once it is debased. Rectification would call for changes in personnel, operations, and attitudes. The relative power and privilege of the despots would disappear with rectifications. Tyrants use the tools of tyranny to protect themselves against the sanctions due them.

...

[Gunny]

once capacities for control and despotism are constructed, in some cases including expansive government employment, dependency, and largesse—can be nearly impossible to reform.

It is difficult to restore the rule of law once it is debased. Rectification would call for changes in personnel, operations, and attitudes. The relative power and privilege of the despots would disappear with rectifications. Tyrants use the tools of tyranny to protect themselves against the sanctions due them.


While all of those for years have been hearing me say: "We need a civil war"; the above is in actuality what I have been stating. The bureaucracy is not going to go without a fight, and will use whatever means necessary to keep itself in power. As this and other articles have warned for years, it's only making itself stronger and the people weaker. The People have been busily denying any such thing; therefore, nothing has been to stop it.

The Dems are in power and can "legalize" anything it wants to do and or states and anything anyone does to stop it is illegal, even if Constitutional. The Constitution at this point has been reduced to great ideals on a piece of paper and nothing more.

[Kathianne]

Like the original Civil War, there are ideals that neither side truly represents. That War was nearly the undoing, not sure a second one would be survivable.

[fj1200]

I say very unlikely. Most states, at this point, are solidly run by Republican governors and/or legislatures, who can effectively mute an overarching Federal government bent on more control. We all know that tyranny is a product of the left so we clearly need to fight those who demand more control at any level of government... and populists. ;)

[Kathianne]

I say very unlikely. Most states, at this point, are solidly run by Republican governors and/or legislatures, who can effectively mute an overarching Federal government bent on more control. We all know that tyranny is a product of the left so we clearly need to fight those who demand more control at any level of government... and populists. ;)

I am pro-life, but even I was amazed at how some deep red states immediately wanted to take total control of reproductive rights, not just abortion. To think that local control is the safe-keeper of freedoms would be a mistake. The control must be from the people, an understanding of natural rights being a starting place, unfortunately most do not understand that concept or many others that are needed.

[fj1200]

I am pro-life, but even I was amazed at how some deep red states immediately wanted to take total control of reproductive rights, not just abortion. To think that local control is the safe-keeper of freedoms would be a mistake. The control must be from the people, an understanding of natural rights being a starting place, unfortunately most do not understand that concept or many others that are needed.

That's a fair point but I see that as a reaction of 50 years of legislation happening in very short order, a snapping of a drawn rubber band if you will, and will take some time to sort itself out. If abortion had taken the same federalist path of assisted suicide state legislation re: abortion would have evolved naturally without SCOTUS mandating something out of thin air.


Like the original Civil War, there are ideals that neither side truly represents. That War was nearly the undoing, not sure a second one would be survivable.

I don't see a civil war if it comes to that. More likely a fracturing like the sad stable state in the OP. 1900s Argentina is our future if we go down that road.

[Kathianne]

That's a fair point but I see that as a reaction of 50 years of legislation happening in very short order, a snapping of a drawn rubber band if you will, and will take some time to sort itself out. If abortion had taken the same federalist path of assisted suicide state legislation re: abortion would have evolved naturally without SCOTUS mandating something out of thin air.



I don't see a civil war if it comes to that. More likely a fracturing like the sad stable state in the OP. 1900s Argentina is our future if we go down that road.

Perhaps. Extremists from both sides seem confident that their righteousness will prevail.

[Gunny]

Like the original Civil War, there are ideals that neither side truly represents. That War was nearly the undoing, not sure a second one would be survivable.A second one would end the same as the first ... the US Government would win and the People would lose. The excuse then was "slavery". Now, it's "right wing fascism". All it needs is a flashpoint.

All predicated on the fact that the left is in control of the government at the time. The right still wants to play by the rules (as they see them).

[Gunny]

I say very unlikely. Most states, at this point, are solidly run by Republican governors and/or legislatures, who can effectively mute an overarching Federal government bent on more control. We all know that tyranny is a product of the left so we clearly need to fight those who demand more control at any level of government... and populists. ;)That's not even close to right. Nobody has kept the Biden administration and/or Federal government in check one bit. Time is on the left's side to break down each red state one at a time, by hook or crook. Or Imperial decree. The left controls the government and the media.

What would make an actual "war" unlikely is when people sit down and take a look at the fact that the US Government owns and controls every facet of our lives. Only those that can sustain a war against he US Government without the aid of the US government can afford to fight one. Everyone else is a prisoner and/or draft eligible by the US Government.

[fj1200]

That's not even close to right. Nobody has kept the Biden administration and/or Federal government in check one bit. Time is on the left's side to break down each red state one at a time, by hook or crook. Or Imperial decree. The left controls the government and the media.

What would make an actual "war" unlikely is when people sit down and take a look at the fact that the US Government owns and controls every facet of our lives. Only those that can sustain a war against he US Government without the aid of the US government can afford to fight one. Everyone else is a prisoner and/or draft eligible by the US Government.

We can agree to disagree but the country has been bending right for decades at this point if you look at who controlled the country when Goldwater made his speech, Reagan followed up, and the Republicans controlling the majority of the states. We'd be moving farther right if the government favoring right :cough: populists who won't admit who they are :cough: weren't so ham handedly trying to F* up the coming election to the benefit of the government favoring left.

The rest is up to the people. And I don't think a 21st century civil war can look anything like the 19th century one. We're going to debt ourselves into chaos much quicker than we're going to fight ourselves into chaos.

Just my opinion.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

How likely??
A bit more than I care to discuss or dwell on myself.
If the dems maintain the leftist/liberal deliberately destructive path that they are currently on, it increasely greatly month by month, year by year, imho.
However, if we ever had that civil war--the enrire world would change drastically. And we would very likely end up subjugated to a foreign power, imho.
The very idea that we could go down that path is horrifically terrifying.--- Tyr

[Gunny]

We can agree to disagree but the country has been bending right for decades at this point if you look at who controlled the country when Goldwater made his speech, Reagan followed up, and the Republicans controlling the majority of the states. We'd be moving farther right if the government favoring right :cough: populists who won't admit who they are :cough: weren't so ham handedly trying to F* up the coming election to the benefit of the government favoring left.

The rest is up to the people. And I don't think a 21st century civil war can look anything like the 19th century one. We're going to debt ourselves into chaos much quicker than we're going to fight ourselves into chaos.

Just my opinion.We're going to disagree because while you can point to Reagan and whoever as the country moving "right", the right has in fact moved to the left on the paradigm. Ronald Reagan was a Democrat before he was a Republican. So were most of his constituents that put him in office.

Voting Republican = moving right is an illusion when the left has been dragging the whole playing field and all the pieces left the entire time.

We will end up with the Dem fascists creating a false flag war they will wage against the people, declaring martial law for our own good that will never be lifted, because they will never run out of enemies to sensationalize and persecute.

[revelarts]

ummm
hello.
i've been saying for years that the U.S. is not falling into tyranny but is creeping into it. with the left and right cheering for the different aspects of it that they like.
I won't reharsh anything here.


but i will ask the same question i always ask when people mention a new "civil war"

the question is a simple one.
WHO exactly are you going to shoot?

police?
U.S. soldiers?
National Guardmen?
Random IRS agents?
local officials?
your congress people?
your blue haired liberal neighbor?
Dude with a BLM shirt?
Antfa weenies?

Who exactly are the targets in this war?
Where are the strongholds?

I've got a vague idea of what victory might look like to some --sorta--
But i'm REALLY not sure whose got to be shot, deposed & imprisoned to get there.
much less whose going to be elected(?) appointed(?) to run the new show?

[revelarts]

ALTERNATIVELY to civil war it seems to me that we've had the power all along,
MASS disobedience is all that's really needed.

it will be painful (see trucker protest china lockdowns).
but they can't function if we do not comply.

nullification at every level.

[icansayit]

We already are IMO. Shootings, robberies, rapes, carjackings, driveby shootings, gangs, and leftover cops who didn't leave when all of the DEFUNDERS were making so much noise as...THEY TORE STATUES DOWN, DEFACED VETERAN CEMETERIES, PAINTED CHURCHES and on, and on....And that's just here IN TIDEWATER Va.

This is no longer the AMERICA I grew up in. No longer the nation I served for about thirty years in uniform.
I Know because...before all of this crap got started with ANTIFA, and BLM. I wasn't afraid to go anywhere by myself IN AMERICA????

Like it or not. Let all of the HATERS come and tell me I'm wrong. I don't care. But WE ALREADY ARE UNDER A MUSSOLINI brand of Tyranny in many respects. And the idiots who call themselves members of Congress, and in the White House DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT "WE THE PEOPLE". All they want is POWER, and CONTROL over all of us.

[SassyLady]

ALTERNATIVELY to civil war it seems to me that we've had the power all along,
MASS disobedience is all that's really needed.

it will be painful (see trucker protest china lockdowns).
but they can't function if we do not comply.

nullification at every level.

People are beginning to taste victory with civil disobedience as you've mentioned. Calling out corruption in the media. Not caving in to vaccine mandates. Spreading the word about ivermectin. School board meetings. Using alternative media to get banned info to the public. Protesting government overreach. People are paying more attention.

Might not be country wide civil war but many smaller, local battles.

[fj1200]

We're going to disagree because while you can point to Reagan and whoever as the country moving "right", the right has in fact moved to the left on the paradigm. Ronald Reagan was a Democrat before he was a Republican. So were most of his constituents that put him in office.

Voting Republican = moving right is an illusion when the left has been dragging the whole playing field and all the pieces left the entire time.

We will end up with the Dem fascists creating a false flag war they will wage against the people, declaring martial law for our own good that will never be lifted, because they will never run out of enemies to sensationalize and persecute.

I'm going to have to disagree with that but that's OK.


ummm
hello.
i've been saying for years that the U.S. is not falling into tyranny but is creeping into it. with the left and right cheering for the different aspects of it that they like.
I won't reharsh anything here.


but i will ask the same question i always ask when people mention a new "civil war"

the question is a simple one.
WHO exactly are you going to shoot?

police?
U.S. soldiers?
National Guardmen?
Random IRS agents?
local officials?
your congress people?
your blue haired liberal neighbor?
Dude with a BLM shirt?
Antfa weenies?

Who exactly are the targets in this war?
Where are the strongholds?

I've got a vague idea of what victory might look like to some --sorta--
But i'm REALLY not sure whose got to be shot, deposed & imprisoned to get there.
much less whose going to be elected(?) appointed(?) to run the new show?

This is pretty much correct. The US is not really made up of people who are going to typically fall into tyranny. That could be because of our form of government or general US citizen.

But you ask questions that really need answers if one is going to argue that we will fall into tyranny. Not only who are you going to shoot but also who's going to shoot you? I don't see the military really getting ginned up to go to mass war within the borders.

[Gunny]

ummm
hello.
i've been saying for years that the U.S. is not falling into tyranny but is creeping into it. with the left and right cheering for the different aspects of it that they like.
I won't reharsh anything here.


but i will ask the same question i always ask when people mention a new "civil war"

the question is a simple one.
WHO exactly are you going to shoot?

police?
U.S. soldiers?
National Guardmen?
Random IRS agents?
local officials?
your congress people?
your blue haired liberal neighbor?
Dude with a BLM shirt?
Antfa weenies?

Who exactly are the targets in this war?
Where are the strongholds?

I've got a vague idea of what victory might look like to some --sorta--
But i'm REALLY not sure whose got to be shot, deposed & imprisoned to get there.
much less whose going to be elected(?) appointed(?) to run the new show?People automatically default to 1861-1865 the second "Civil War" is mentioned. Opposing armies representing two opposing sides. There ARE more than a few comparisons. The aforementioned armed conflict between two opposing armies not being a very likely one.

Making that comparison, as you have, has been an almost 100% effective way of dismissing the notion that there IS a war, and as in the previous civil war, the government backed by its rabid progressives and promoted non-stop by the media machine is winning.

As far as armies are concerned, the government is the only one with an "army". It's against the government's laws for anyone else to have one. The purpose of politicizing, weaponizing, and doubling the size of the IRS is a perfect example. The government has no need to mess with Constitutional "Rights". It's going to go door-to-door and take more control one person at a time. The few individuals that dare fight back will be criminals, outlawed and hunted down like dogs by the government.

Take Jan 6th for example. How many people actually participated in the riot vs the 1000 (approx) they have arrested? No stone has been left unturned when it comes to threatening the US government and the bureaucracy it supports.

Compared to the year of riots in 2019 in blue cities where Federal buildings were occupied, people killed or completely dispossessed, with tacit approval of Dems in general and Dem leaders in those cities?

To win a physical confrontation "war" with the US government, the People would have to throw away their government-supported lives and act as one to remove it. The sheeple aren't going to do that. They'd rather be slaves with handouts than free but responsible for what they have.