NATO V Russia? [Archive] - Debate Policy

Gunny

04-29-2022, 08:15 AM

Russia seems to be forming that premise:

https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2022/04/27/is-russia-gearing-up-to-go-to-war-with-nato-n465452We're already at war with Russia. "We" being NATO being mostly US resources and muscle. Putin thought he could bully his way into what he wants without much resistance. On the other side of the coin, I;d bet more than half the powers in Western Europe keeping hoping what the author suggests: Putin take what he has and declare "peace". Western Europe (to include the US) would be more than happy to accept the trade at Ukraine's, or any other Eastern European nation's expense. Had Putin originally just gone after Donbas and Luhansk, NATO/Europe would still be talking "more sanctions" and little more.

Putin tried his best to make this about Russia and the US from the beginning. Switching gears to make it Russia vs NATO still gives him a viable enemy Russian people think they understand (from a Kremlin POV) and fear. I've made this argument about Iran and it holds true with Russia: regardless the level they hate/fear the Russian government, they've been indoctrinated since birth that we are out to get them, bund down their houses and kill their women and babies. The same thing we we've been indoctrinated to believe about them. They will rally around the Russian government to "save Mother Russia" from us Western heathens.

I was a bit surprised that the Kremlin's outright lies surprises anyone in the West. I'm not seeing anything different in their propaganda than when they were in full-swing, Soviet mode. The difference I see is information availability. It used to be controlled by each country's media outlets.

I don't know where this guy gets his reading material, but current Russia is a caricature of the Soviet military we were trained and equipped to fight. I disagree that Putin is fighting with one hand tied behind his back. Maybe in regard to encroaching on NATO. The flaws glaringly on display with his military have been there for years. Russia's army is being fought off by a country with little more than a militia using whatever hand-me-downs have trickled slowly through individual countries' chains to piecemeal their way across the border. The only thing keeping Russia even viable is the threat of using nuclear weapons. Jaw-dropping as it was even to me, Russia's army has been thoroughly mauled by farmers.

IF Putin were to go full-scale now and throw everything into the line, he does not have the industry nor the manpower to sustain it.

On the other hand, Larry. Curly and Joe (Biden, Austin, Blinken) have been running their mouths, unfiltered. Not sure what they are thinking. The US, therefore NATO, will be sucking hind tit if Russia DOES decide to throw everything into the line because for all our talk and capability, we aren't mobilized to support much more than a holding action.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, oil companies are hardly moved by Biden, refineries less so because of Dem restrictions. One of the biggest refineries in TX is up for sale with the threat of shuttering if not purchased. Went through this in the 70s with Carter. When it costs more to produce than they can even break even on, they close. This one refinery closing projected to add yet another dime to a gallon of gas.

Biden's making a lot of promises Dem policies can't support as they stand.

In case anyone wonders or cares, the "plan" for a Russian attack to the West is to fall back and hold the line at Germany. Sucks to be east of that "plan" :rolleyes: I'm not sure what the West/NATO will di in response because it will require a bunch of gossipy, vacillating old biddies to stop trying to talk the situation to death and "act now". Deer in the headlights usually get hit.