Obama refuses to wear American flag pin

[Little-Acorn]

First Obama announces that we should sit down and talk with our enemies, as though they had any interest in compromising. Then he says that we should bomb our friends in the Middle East.

Now he announces that he won't wear an American flag pin on his lapel during public appearances.

Is Barack Obama trying to lose the 2008 election? His actions certainly point to that conclusion. I, for one, am happy to help fulfill his (apparent) wish.

-------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8S2JKG02&show_article=1

Obama Stops Wearing Flag Pin

Oct 4 03:06 PM US/Eastern

WATERLOO, Iowa (AP) - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said he doesn't wear the American flag lapel pin because it has become a substitute for "true patriotism" since the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.
Asked about the decision Wednesday in an interview with KCRG-TV in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, the Illinois senator said he stopped doing so shortly after the attacks and instead hoped to show his patriotism by explaining his ideas to citizens.

"The truth is that right after 9-11 I had a pin," Obama said. "Shortly after 9-11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq war, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security.

"I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest," he said in the interview. "Instead, I'm going to try to tell the American people what I believe will make this country great, and hopefully that will be a testament to my patriotism."

Obama was campaigning in Iowa Thursday, the second day of a four-day trip to the early voting state.

[avatar4321]

he must want to lose. Cause if he really just didnt want to wear the pin he just wouldnt mention it. He wouldnt go out and tell people that he isnt doing it.

[Abbey Marie]

Is this refusal to show allegiance to our country a black thing or a lib thing? I have told this story before, but right after 9-11, when American flags were flying in front of homes in record numbers, a black landlord in a black part of town here in the northeast, tried to prohibit a tenant from flying an American flag.

When she was asked by a reporter why she wouldn't allow the flag, she replied, "I don't want to look like I am taking sides". Sides! It made me sick.

[Little-Acorn]

Is this refusal to show allegiance to our country a black thing or a lib thing?

A refusal to feel allegiance to our country, is clearly a lib thing.

Not until the country becomes what they WANT it to be - liberal and govt-dependent to the point of socialism - will they feel any attachment to it. They don't feel a free country of responsible, sovereign individuals is worth preserving.

[Hagbard Celine]

You don't see his point? Wearing a flag pin and putting a "support the troops" magnet on your car doesn't make you a patriot.

[Abbey Marie]

You don't see his point? Wearing a flag pin and putting a "support the troops" magnet on your car doesn't make you a patriot.

So what does refusing to wear it make you?

[theHawk]

You don't see his point? Wearing a flag pin and putting a "support the troops" magnet on your car doesn't make you a patriot.

Has it ever occurred to you that people that put a "support the troops" magnet on their car might have someone they know in the military and are indeed doing more than you know?


As for Obama's Presidential bid, its only fitting that the final nail in his coffin be an American flag pin.

[Hagbard Celine]

So what does refusing to wear it make you?

Nothing. It makes you nothing. People make themselves. The pin is a pin and that's it. Wearing one or not wearing one has nothing to do with a person's patriotism.

[manu1959]

You don't see his point? Wearing a flag pin and putting a "support the troops" magnet on your car doesn't make you a patriot.

so why not wear one then if it doesn't matter.......he is trying to become president of the country ..... he could at least wear the flag.....

[Abbey Marie]

Obama refuses to wear the pin, saying he wants to talk "explain his ideas" instead. Last time I checked, flag pins do not act as muzzles or gags, and one can actually still speak while wearing one.

What does the flag pin represent that he feels is confusing or bad? That he is an American and loves his country? I guess he doesn't want anyone to assume that about him. Fine, we won't. If I was a Dem, I wouldn't want that taint to rub off on my party.

He is apparently no different than the woman in my earlier post who felt displaying a flag it would mean she was taking sides in some twisted lib political game.

Hillary will beat this guy handily.

[Hagbard Celine]

so why not wear one then if it doesn't matter.......he is trying to become president of the country ..... he could at least wear the flag.....

He's making a point. He's saying wearing the flag doesn't make you a good candidate, good ideas and good policies do. Just because he's not wearing a flag pin doesn't mean he's "shunning the flag." That's preposterous.

[Dilloduck]

Obama refuses to wear the pin, saying he wants to talk "explain his ideas" instead. Last time I checked, flag pins do not act as muzzles or gags, and one can actually still speak while wearing one.

What does the flag pin represent that he feels is confusing or bad? That he is an American and loves his country? I guess he doesn't want anyone to assume that about him. Fine, we won't. If I was a Dem, I wouldn't want that taint to rub off on my party.

He is apparently no different than the woman in my earlier post who felt displaying a flag it would mean she was taking sides in some twisted lib political game.

Hillary will beat this guy handily.

No kidding----gimmicks ain't gonna get it.

[stephanie]

Yeah I want him as My CIC...

The guy is Clueless.:laugh2:

[Dilloduck]

Yeah I want him as My CIC...

The guy is Clueless.:laugh2:

I can't wait til Hillary gets elected just to watch you go ballistic .

:lol:

[stephanie]

I can't wait til Hillary gets elected just to watch you go ballistic .

:lol:

I'm gonna throw up IF that happens...:laugh2:

[actsnoblemartin]

Im sorry but i think obama is being an idiot. what good will it do to sit down with people who hate us?. What we need a good photo op. I know some will disagree with me, but i dont see a point to playing nice with jerks.


First Obama announces that we should sit down and talk with our enemies, as though they had any interest in compromising. Then he says that we should bomb our friends in the Middle East.

Now he announces that he won't wear an American flag pin on his lapel during public appearances.

Is Barack Obama trying to lose the 2008 election? His actions certainly point to that conclusion. I, for one, am happy to help fulfill his (apparent) wish.

-------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8S2JKG02&show_article=1

Obama Stops Wearing Flag Pin

Oct 4 03:06 PM US/Eastern

WATERLOO, Iowa (AP) - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said he doesn't wear the American flag lapel pin because it has become a substitute for "true patriotism" since the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.
Asked about the decision Wednesday in an interview with KCRG-TV in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, the Illinois senator said he stopped doing so shortly after the attacks and instead hoped to show his patriotism by explaining his ideas to citizens.

"The truth is that right after 9-11 I had a pin," Obama said. "Shortly after 9-11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq war, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security.

"I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest," he said in the interview. "Instead, I'm going to try to tell the American people what I believe will make this country great, and hopefully that will be a testament to my patriotism."

Obama was campaigning in Iowa Thursday, the second day of a four-day trip to the early voting state.

[retiredman]

Im sorry but i think obama is being an idiot. what good will it do to sit down with people who hate us?. What we need a good photo op. I know some will disagree with me, but i dont see a point to playing nice with jerks.

so...you disagree with ever using diplomacy with our adversaries. Is that correct?

Kruschev says "we will bury you" and president actsnoblemartin nukes them instead of setting up the hotline?

that's great. Let me say a prayer tonight that YOU will never be in a position of power in MY country - or anyone else's for that matter!

[actsnoblemartin]

If i believed that using diplomacy with iran would work, i would be all for it, but please tell me, you think iran will listen to us?

after iran, you would have to go country by country, and perhaps some would listen, but its a case by case bases.


so...you disagree with ever using diplomacy with our adversaries. Is that correct?

[actsnoblemartin]

dont worry buddy, I dont want to be president or any other position of power.

I am not sure who kruschev is, im only 27. you have to forgive my historical ignore the schools dont teach good history no more.

As for, if youre asking me how i would deal with a certain situation. I can only do what anyone would do... consider all the facts... weight the pro's and con's and make the best decision possible AT THE TIME :)


so...you disagree with ever using diplomacy with our adversaries. Is that correct?

Kruschev says "we will bury you" and president actsnoblemartin nukes them instead of setting up the hotline?

that's great. Let me say a prayer tonight that YOU will never be in a position of power in MY country - or anyone else's for that matter!

[retiredman]

If i believed that using diplomacy with iran would work, i would be all for it, but please tell me, you think iran will listen to us?

after iran, you would have to go country by country, and perhaps some would listen, but its a case by case bases.

do I think Iran will listen to us? I think that Iran will do what is in their enlightened self interest. If we can use diplomacy to get them to consider options and retreat from confrontation, it will have worked...and if it doesn't, so be it...but to suggest that not talking to our adversaries ought to be our foreign policy is stupid and dangerously foolhardy.

[red states rule]

do I think Iran will listen to us? I think that Iran will do what is in their enlightened self interest. If we can use diplomacy to get them to consider options and retreat from confrontation, it will have worked...and if it doesn't, so be it...but to suggest that not talking to our adversaries ought to be our foreign policy is stupid and dangerously foolhardy.

Yea, libs think they can reason with a nut who wants to wipe Israel off the map, says the Holocaust never happened, and stones women to death in public

The liberal media gave this modern day Hitler glowing press coverage - and listening to his speechs reminded me of any speech given by any of the Dems running for President

No wonder you think this terrorist is perfectly reasonable and can be talked to.

[red states rule]

Nothing. It makes you nothing. People make themselves. The pin is a pin and that's it. Wearing one or not wearing one has nothing to do with a person's patriotism.

Now if Obama wore a Cuban or Mexican pin - the libs would turn away from Hillary and flock to him

[retiredman]

Yea, libs think they can reason with a nut who wants to wipe Israel off the map, says the Holocaust never happened, and stones women to death in public

The liberal media gave this modern day Hitler glowing press coverage - and listening to his speechs reminded me of any speech given by any of the Dems running for President

No wonder you think this terrorist is perfectly reasonable and can be talked to.

now then, if you could show me ONE sentence where I have EVER suggested that the Iranian president was "perfectly reasonable", then you MIGHT prove yourself something other than a lying sack of shit.

I'll wait.:fu:

[red states rule]

now then, if you could show me ONE sentence where I have EVER suggested that the Iranian president was "perfectly reasonable", then you MIGHT prove yourself something other than a lying sack of shit.

I'll wait.:fu:

I see the Merchant of Venom is in his usual foul mood again this morning

This is what you posted - so you think we can reason with this terrorist?

If we can use diplomacy to get them to consider options and retreat from confrontation, it will have worked...and if it doesn't, so be it...but to suggest that not talking to our adversaries ought to be our foreign policy is stupid and dangerously foolhardy.
Yesterday 09:59 PM


Libs think this guy can be reasoned with sich they both hate Pres Bush and see the US as a international bully

[retiredman]

having a tough time finding that place where I said that he was "perfectly reasonable"? Why not just be a man and retract it?

[retiredman]

and I repeat, to suggest that our foreign policy be such that we never talk to our adversaries...why the hell even have a secretary of state? to suggest that diplomacy has no place in discussions with nation-states that have divergent interests with ours is infantile and dangerous...and proof that your party does not belong behind the wheel any longer.

[red states rule]

having a tough time finding that place where I said that he was "perfectly reasonable"? Why not just be a man and retract it?

I did. To libs like you (and the liberal media that gave him glowing coverage) you both agree on so many things - you think with a liberal President he will no longer be a murdering terrorist who is shipping arms to Iraq that are killing our troops.

[retiredman]

no. moron. you didn't. I have never suggested that the Iranian president was "perfectly reasonable". you are a liar. no surprise there!:fu:

[red states rule]

no. moron. you didn't. I have never suggested that the Iranian president was "perfectly reasonable". you are a liar. no surprise there!:fu:

The same way you would never admit your elected Dems slime and insult the troops, you now will not admit you said how we can reson with a terrorists leader

Your hate for Pres Bush clouds all of your reason (if you ever had any)

[retiredman]

The same way you would never admit your elected Dems slime and insult the troops, you now will not admit you said how we can reson with a terrorists leader

Your hate for Pres Bush clouds all of your reason (if you ever had any)

some times you really seem to be too thick to talk to. I have only said that we should never abandon diplomacy without trying it. I have only said that failing to talk with other nation states who are are adversaries is dangerous and foolhardy. And we certainly CAN reason with terrorist leaders at some level. We have "reasoned" with Arafat and had him shake Rabin's hand on the white house lawn...we have "reasoned" with Kim Jong Il who funds terrorist and sells them technology..... talking first is better than never even trying to talk and attacking preemptively. I say again...if we never talked to our adversaries, why would we need a secretary of state?

[red states rule]

some times you really seem to be too thick to talk to. I have only said that we should never abandon diplomacy without trying it. I have only said that failing to talk with other nation states who are are adversaries is dangerous and foolhardy. And we certainly CAN reason with terrorist leaders at some level. We have "reasoned" with Arafat and had him shake Rabin's hand on the white house lawn...we have "reasoned" with Kim Jong Il who funds terrorist and sells them technology..... talking first is better than never even trying to talk and attacking preemptively.

Yea, and we all know how well talking to Arafat and Jong. The handshake and basktball Mad Halfbright gave Jong made alot of progress

The liberal media fives them glowing coverage and libs swallow it hook, line, and sinker

Look at this puff piece on this terrorist leaders from Time

My Dinner with Ahmadinejad
Wednesday, Sep. 26, 2007 By RICHARD STENGEL

The invitation was on creamy stationery with fancy calligraphy: The Permanent Representative of the Islamic Republic of Iran "requests the pleasure" of my company to dine with H.E. Dr. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. The dinner is at the Intercontinental Hotel — with names carefully written out at all the place settings around a rectangular table. There are about 50 of us, academics and journalists mostly. There's Brian Williams across the room, and Christiane Amanpour a few seats down. And at a little after 8pm, on a day when he has already addressed the U.N., the evening after his confrontation at Columbia, a bowing and smiling Mahmoud Admadinejad glides into the room.

for the complete article

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1665579,00.html

[retiredman]

you digress and obfuscate. No one is suggesting that any of our past present or future adversaries ar friendly or reasonable folks. All I am saying is that it is foolhardy to abandon diplomacy without giving it a chance, regardless of how remote those chances are.

[red states rule]

you digress and obfuscate. No one is suggesting that any of our past present or future adversaries ar friendly or reasonable folks. All I am saying is that it is foolhardy to abandon diplomacy without giving it a chance, regardless of how remote those chances are.

Eight years of Clinton diplomacy accomplished what? The terrorists and dictators grew and gave Amercia 9-11

[retiredman]

quit spinning. The ONLY point I have tried to make is that unilaterally and preemptively abandoning diplomacy and refusing to consider talking with our adversaries is stupid.... and YOU are stupid for continuing to suggest that.

[red states rule]

quit spinning. The ONLY point I have tried to make is that unilaterally and preemptively abandoning diplomacy and refusing to consider talking with our adversaries is stupid.... and YOU are stupid for continuing to suggest that.

Given the liberals track record of using only diplomacy - anyone can see libs can't be trusted with national defense and security

After all the posts you have on this board and the other - you accuse someone else of spinning? LOL!!!

[retiredman]

I say again:

The ONLY point I have tried to make is that unilaterally and preemptively abandoning diplomacy and refusing to consider talking with our adversaries is stupid.... and YOU are stupid for continuing to suggest that.

[red states rule]

I say again:

The ONLY point I have tried to make is that unilaterally and preemptively abandoning diplomacy and refusing to consider talking with our adversaries is stupid.... and YOU are stupid for continuing to suggest that.

We all saw the results of the liberal way of dealing with evil and terrorists.

That is why libs now say the US needs to move on from 9-11

[retiredman]

so we can agree to disagree.

You think that abandoning diplomacy without even trying to talk to our adversaries is the appropriate path for America.

I think you are beyond stupid.

We can quit talking about this now, I think.

[red states rule]

so we can agree to disagree.

You think that abandoning diplomacy without even trying to talk to our adversaries is the appropriate path for America.

I think you are beyond stupid.

We can quit talking about this now, I think.

Once again, the liberal side of you comes out. There is nothing like seeing a liberals warm and fuzzy side when they come up short in a debate

[retiredman]

I am not trying to insult you, RSR.

You believe that using diplomacy with adversarial nation states is unnecessary. I think that such a position is really stupid and profoundly foolhardy. we should leave it at that.

[red states rule]

I am not trying to insult you, RSR.

You believe that using diplomacy with adversarial nation states is unnecessary. I think that such a position is really stupid and profoundly foolhardy. we should leave it at that.

Only to you (and other liberals) would this NOT be an insult

I think you are beyond stupid.

We can quit talking about this now, I think.

[retiredman]

but it is true. I believe that suggesting that we abandon diplomacy when dealing with adversarial nation states is a stupid idea. that is not an insult...it is an assessment. It's stupid to suggest that and it is dangerous and foolhardy as well.

[red states rule]

but it is true. I believe that suggesting that we abandon diplomacy when dealing with adversarial nation states is a stupid idea. that is not an insult...it is an assessment. It's stupid to suggest that and it is dangerous and foolhardy as well.

Nothing like the warmth and charm of a liberal when he can't counter the facts

Calling someone stupid is not an insult - the same way Moveon.org did not smear Gen Petraeus (according to you)

[JohnDoe]

I have not read through the entire post yet,

BUT, it is against Flag code, and disrespect for our Flag to wear a flag pin, unless you are in war and you are a member of the Serviceman's family.

Obama, though he did not mention this being the reason, would be following our US Flag Code and respecting our Flag BY NOT WEARING ONE.




§180. Design for service lapel button; persons entitled to wear button
The Secretary of Defense is also authorized and directed to approve a design for a service lapel button, which button may be worn by members of the immediate family of a person serving in the armed forces of the United States during any period of war or hostilities in which the Armed Forces of the United States may be engaged.

[red states rule]

I have not read through the entire post yet,

BUT, it is against Flag code, and disrespect for our Flag to wear a flag pin, unless you are in war and you are a member of the Serviceman's family.

Obama, though he did not mention this being the reason, would be following our US Flag Code and respecting our Flag BY NOT WEARING ONE.



and I say again, if Obama would wear a Mexican or Cuban flag pin the left would love it

All Obama is trying to do is walk the PC walk. He is not the first liberal to think wearing the US flag pin is silly - and he will not be the last

[JohnDoe]

and I say again, if Obama would wear a Mexican or Cuban flag pin the left would love it

All Obama is trying to do is walk the PC walk. He is not the first liberal to think wearing the US flag pin is silly - and he will not be the last
Good morning rsr!

I am not arguing that Obama had his own personal, and political reasons for not wearing a flag lapel pin.

I am saying that everyone that is wearing one of these lapel pins, that is not a member of the family of a serviceman or service woman serving his or her country, during a time of war, IS DISRESPECTING OUR FLAG, and breaking US Flag Code by doing it.

I don't think there is any way around it.

So if anything, those wearing the unauthorized pins, are the ones in the wrong, according to US Flag code.

jd

[red states rule]

Good morning rsr!

I am not arguing that Obama had his own personal, and political reasons for not wearing a flag lapel pin.

I am saying that everyone that is wearing one of these lapel pins, that is not a member of the family of a serviceman or service woman serving his or her country, during a time of war, IS DISRESPECTING OUR FLAG, and breaking US Flag Code by doing it.

I don't think there is any way around it.

So if anything, those wearing the unauthorized pins, are the ones in the wrong, according to US Flag code.

jd


Good Morning to you

Your PC side is taking over. Obama is so afraid of ticking off the moonbat left he would rather pocket the pin in exchange for their vote

[JohnDoe]

Good Morning to you

Your PC side is taking over. Obama is so afraid of ticking off the moonbat left he would rather pocket the pin in exchange for their vote


so it doesn't bother you that all of those yahoos wearing the lapel pin are actually disrespecting our US Flag code, breaking this code?

shouldn't we recall all of those made in China flag pins from all of those non service member families that are not following our very own standards of flag respect, by wearing an unauthorized flag pin? (even my hubby and I have a couple of those pins)

I realize that breaking the code is not punishable by law, but it is still WRONG according to our own US Code?

And yes, of course Obama is trying to make his own "political statement", I do not disagree on that!!!

jd

[red states rule]

and Obama has to protect his platform

[red states rule]

so it doesn't bother you that all of those yahoos wearing the lapel pin are actually disrespecting our US Flag code, breaking this code?

shouldn't we recall all of those made in China flag pins from all of those non service member families that are not following our very own standards of flag respect, by wearing an unauthorized flag pin? (even my hubby and I have a couple of those pins)

I realize that breaking the code is not punishable by law, but it is still WRONG according to our own US Code?

And yes, of course Obama is trying to make his own "political statement", I do not disagree on that!!!

jd

I would rather have people wearing a flag oin, then burning the flag or smearing our troops for political gain (Moveon.org and elected Dems)

[retiredman]

Nothing like the warmth and charm of a liberal when he can't counter the facts

Calling someone stupid is not an insult - the same way Moveon.org did not smear Gen Petraeus (according to you)

You have said that using diplomacy with adversarial nation states is unnecessary, have you not?

[retiredman]

Good morning rsr!

I am not arguing that Obama had his own personal, and political reasons for not wearing a flag lapel pin.

I am saying that everyone that is wearing one of these lapel pins, that is not a member of the family of a serviceman or service woman serving his or her country, during a time of war, IS DISRESPECTING OUR FLAG, and breaking US Flag Code by doing it.

I don't think there is any way around it.

So if anything, those wearing the unauthorized pins, are the ones in the wrong, according to US Flag code.

jd

don't try to confuse RSR with facts.:laugh2:

[red states rule]

You have said that using diplomacy with adversarial nation states is unnecessary, have you not?

Oh yes, the liberal way of dealing with terrorists and threats to the US

[retiredman]

you cannot answer a simple question, can you.

Here...try again:

You have said that using diplomacy with adversarial nation states is unnecessary, have you not?

that question does not go into the past effectiveness of any administration's use of diplomacy or any current candidate's thoughts about diplomacy.

You have stated that using diplomacy with adversarial nation states is unnecessary. Isn't that correct?

[red states rule]

you cannot answer a simple question, can you.

Here...try again:

You have said that using diplomacy with adversarial nation states is unnecessary, have you not?

that question does not go into the past effectiveness of any administration's use of diplomacy or any current candidate's thoughts about diplomacy.

You have stated that using diplomacy with adversarial nation states is unnecessary. Isn't that correct?

It is not a surprise for you NOT wanting to talk about how making nice to America's enemies have failed in the past

[jimnyc]

I am saying that everyone that is wearing one of these lapel pins, that is not a member of the family of a serviceman or service woman serving his or her country, during a time of war, IS DISRESPECTING OUR FLAG, and breaking US Flag Code by doing it.

Wrong again!

Under patriotic customs of the US flag code, section 80, it states:


The Secretary of Defense is also authorized and directed to approve a design for a service lapel button, which button may be worn by members of the immediate family of a person serving in the armed forces of the United States during any period of war or hostilities in which the Armed Forces of the United States may be engaged.

This is speaking of a SERVICE lapel button, not regular citizens wearing replica lapel buttons of the US flag.

Under section 8 of the US flag code it further states:


(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

[retiredman]

it is truly amazing. you absolutely are incapable of answering questions.

you are just like the tarbaby

[red states rule]

it is truly amazing. you absolutely are incapable of answering questions.

you are just like the tarbaby

and you are incapable of dealing with the failed history of your party

[retiredman]

and you are incapable of dealing with the failed history of your party

that is not so...the history of my party has many instances of failure.

I have never suggested otherwise.

now answer my question, if you please.

[Sir Evil]

Wrong again!

Under patriotic customs of the US flag code, section 80, it states:



This is speaking of a SERVICE lapel button, not regular citizens wearing replica lapel buttons of the US flag.

Under section 8 of the US flag code it further states:


Is a twist on the truth really all that hard to buy into? Stunning how different it can sounds when presented properly.:D

[Abbey Marie]

I am not trying to insult you, RSR.

You believe that using diplomacy with adversarial nation states is unnecessary. I think that such a position is really stupid and profoundly foolhardy. we should leave it at that.

Using diplomacy on an ad hoc basis as deemed favorable is fine. But if I am not mistaken, without even the shadow of the party's nomination in hand, Obama has already vowed to sit down with the worst of the worst. Should he be nominated and elected (Saints preserve us), he has already telegraphed his intentions to our enemies, and thereby starts from a position of potential weakness. One can always decide to talk, but one cannot take back a statement that your favored mode of dealing with wacko heads of state is to talk with them, no matter what they've done. That horse has left the barn. Even your Hillary understands this.

[Abbey Marie]

The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

So not only is wearing a flag pin not disallowed, it is strongly encouraged by the Code. Hmm....

Great work, Jim.

[red states rule]

Using diplomacy on an ad hoc basis as deemed favorable is fine. But if I am not mistaken, without even the shadow of the party's nomination in hand, Obama has already vowed to sit down with the worst of the worst, Should he be nominated and elected (Saints preserve us), he has already telegraphed his intentions to our enemies, and thereby starts from a position of potential weakness. One can always decide to talk, but one cannot take back a statement that your favored mode of delaing with wacko heads of state is to talk with them, no matter what they've done. That horse has left the barn. Even your Hillary understands this.

Correct me if I am wrong, if Iran nukes Israel - he has taken a military response from the US off the table. What would do? Wag his finger and denounce the act?

[Abbey Marie]

Correct me if I am wrong, if Iran nukes Israel - he has taken a military response from the US off the table. What would do? Wag his finger and denounce the act?

Whether it is in reality off the table or not, the problem is that he has given the impression that if he is in the WH, a military response is at best, on the back burner.

[red states rule]

Whether it is in reality off the table or not, the problem is that he has given the impression that if he is in the WH, a military response is at best, on the back burner.

True. I remeber the little Hitler from Iran saying he was encouraged by the 06 elections. Hell of an endorsement - isn't it?

[Abbey Marie]

True. I remeber the little Hitler from Iran saying he was encouraged by the 06 elections. Hell of an endorsement - isn't it?

Well, they were both educated in a Muslim school. :coffee:

[red states rule]

Well, they were both educated in a Muslim school. :coffee:

If they went to the same school, maybe they will attend reunions together

[retiredman]

Using diplomacy on an ad hoc basis as deemed favorable is fine. But if I am not mistaken, without even the shadow of the party's nomination in hand, Obama has already vowed to sit down with the worst of the worst. Should he be nominated and elected (Saints preserve us), he has already telegraphed his intentions to our enemies, and thereby starts from a position of potential weakness. One can always decide to talk, but one cannot take back a statement that your favored mode of dealing with wacko heads of state is to talk with them, no matter what they've done. That horse has left the barn. Even your Hillary understands this.

I would suggest that our favored mode of dealing with ANY head of state would be to talk with them as opposed to invading and deposing them.

[red states rule]

I would suggest that our favored mode of dealing with ANY head of state would be to talk with them as opposed to invading and deposing them.

No wonder the terrorists and dictators were happy with the 06 elsctions. They know you libs will just keep talking as they do the killing

[retiredman]

No wonder the terrorists and dictators were happy with the 06 elsctions. They know you libs will just keep talking as they do the killing

I am sorry. I keep forgetting that your command of the english language is so limited. I said, the "favored mode".... "favored" does not imply any level of exclusivity or that one stays with that mode if it does not work.

I am sure that, when the terrorists come visit this site, you make them laugh at you and make them hopeful that all americans have similar intellects to you.

[red states rule]

I am sorry. I keep forgetting that your command of the english language is so limited. I said, the "favored mode".... "favored" does not imply any level of exclusivity or that one stays with that mode if it does not work.

I am sure that, when the terrorists come visit this site, you make them laugh at you and make them hopeful that all americans have similar intellects to you.

You can counter the truth with insults all you want MM. The truth is is are part of a lilly livered party that cowers in fear to America's enemies - and the terrorists know it

[retiredman]

You can counter the truth with insults all you want MM. The truth is is are part of a lilly livered party that cowers in fear to America's enemies - and the terrorists know it

I never counter the "truth" with insults...I sometimes counter "insulting opinions" with return insults which is what I did here. I have learned that every time you start a sentence with "the truth is..." that your partisan rush limbaugh talking point opinion is about to follow.

You would know the truth or a fact if it bit you.

[red states rule]

I never counter the "truth" with insults...I sometimes counter "insulting opinions" with return insults which is what I did here. I have learned that every time you start a sentence with "the truth is..." that your partisan rush limbaugh talking point opinion is about to follow.

You would know the truth or a fact if it bit you.

You are a typical liberal who hates for anyone who disagrees with you and when the facts fail you (and they always do) you fall back on the usual liberal debate tactic - insults and personal attacks

For a bunch of people who claim they care and tolerant about others, you people are the most intolerant and uncaring towards those who have a different opinion

[retiredman]

::yawn::

Note: I REALLY wish there were a smilie for "yawning"!

[JohnDoe]

Well, they were both educated in a Muslim school. :coffee:Really? I thought he went to a Catholic school when he was overseas as a child?

[JohnDoe]

Correct me if I am wrong, if Iran nukes Israel - he has taken a military response from the US off the table. What would do? Wag his finger and denounce the act?

I think Israel will nuke Iran before Iran could get the chance to nuke Israel.... Israel's intelligence is second to none and they would be aware of any nuke plans of Iran towards them beforehand....imho Israel, really doesn't take much crap from anyone surrounding her...

I do not think the usa would need to respond for Israel!!! She is a mighty country!

jd

[JohnDoe]

Well, they were both educated in a Muslim school. :coffee:

Ok, I was wrong. It was not a Catholic school but it was not a Muslim Madrassas school, it was a general school that had children of ALL different religions going there.... so I HIGHLY doubt that Ahmadinejad attended a school with other Christians....

ps. guess there is no distortion law worth a crap out there, huh? ;)

fyi

JAKARTA, Indonesia (CNN) -- Allegations that Sen. Barack Obama was educated in a radical Muslim school known as a "madrassa" are not accurate, according to CNN reporting.

Insight Magazine, which is owned by the same company as The Washington Times, reported on its Web site last week that associates of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-New York, had unearthed information the Illinois Democrat and likely presidential candidate attended a Muslim religious school known for teaching the most fundamentalist form of Islam.

Obama lived in Indonesia as a child, from 1967 to 1971, with his mother and stepfather and has acknowledged attending a Muslim school, but an aide said it was not a madrassa. (Watch video of Obama's school )

Insight attributed the information in its article to an unnamed source, who said it was discovered by "researchers connected to Senator Clinton." A spokesman for Clinton, who is also weighing a White House bid, denied that the campaign was the source of the Obama claim.

He called the story "an obvious right-wing hit job."

Insight stood by its story in a response posted on its Web site Monday afternoon.

The Insight article was cited several times Friday on Fox News and was also referenced by the New York Post, The Glenn Beck program on CNN Headline News and a number of political blogs. (Watch how the Obama "gossip" spread )

School not a madrassa
But reporting by CNN in Jakarta, Indonesia and Washington, D.C., shows the allegations that Obama attended a madrassa to be false. CNN dispatched Senior International Correspondent John Vause to Jakarta to investigate.

He visited the Basuki school, which Obama attended from 1969 to 1971.

"This is a public school. We don't focus on religion," Hardi Priyono, deputy headmaster of the Basuki school, told Vause. "In our daily lives, we try to respect religion, but we don't give preferential treatment."

Vause reported he saw boys and girls dressed in neat school uniforms playing outside the school, while teachers were dressed in Western-style clothes.

"I came here to Barack Obama's elementary school in Jakarta looking for what some are calling an Islamic madrassa ... like the ones that teach hate and violence in Pakistan and Afghanistan," Vause said on the "Situation Room" Monday. "I've been to those madrassas in Pakistan ... this school is nothing like that."

Vause also interviewed one of Obama's Basuki classmates, Bandug Winadijanto, who claims that not a lot has changed at the school since the two men were pupils. Insight reported that Obama's political opponents believed the school promoted Wahhabism, a fundamentalist form of Islam, "and are seeking to prove it."

"It's not (an) Islamic school. It's general," Winadijanto said. "There is a lot of Christians, Buddhists, also Confucian. ... So that's a mixed school."

The Obama aide described Fox News' broadcasting of the Insight story "appallingly irresponsible."

Fox News executive Bill Shine told CNN "Reliable Sources" anchor Howard Kurtz that some of the network's hosts were simply expressing their opinions and repeatedly cited Insight as the source of the allegations.

Obama has noted in his two books, "Dreams From My Father" and "The Audacity of Hope," that he spent two years in a Muslim school and another two years in a Catholic school while living in Indonesia from age 6 to 10.

[jimnyc]

Ok, I was wrong.

Funny, I don't see those words coming about the statement about wearing a replica mini flag on your lapel being against the US flag code, which after all is what this thread is mainly about.

It does the heart good though to see something typed that now needs to be typed in a bunch of other threads, but I won't hold my breath as I value my life too much!

[Abbey Marie]

Really? I thought he went to a Catholic school when he was overseas as a child?

No, it wasn't a general school as you put it. It was, by Obama's own admission, a predominately Muslim school, in a predominately Muslim country. Distortion indeed. And I am ah, surprised that you never heard of this.



...
In two best-selling autobiographies—"The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream" and "Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance"—Mr. Obama, born in Honolulu where his parents met, mentions but does not expand on his Muslim background, alluding only to his attendance at a "predominantly Muslim school."

The sources said the young Obama was given the name Hussein by his Muslim father, which the Illinois Democrat rarely uses in public.
...


http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/Obama_2.htm

[Gaffer]

I think Israel will nuke Iran before Iran could get the chance to nuke Israel.... Israel's intelligence is second to none and they would be aware of any nuke plans of Iran towards them beforehand....imho Israel, really doesn't take much crap from anyone surrounding her...

I do not think the usa would need to respond for Israel!!! She is a mighty country!

jd

I agree, Israel is not going to sit back and wait to be hit. If they see a real threat they will notify the US and let our forces make the first move, unless we drag our feet. Then they will take action themselves. I don't think anyone will use nukes unless iran does. We can cripple iran seriously without nukes.

[Abbey Marie]

Funny, I don't see those words coming about the statement about wearing a replica mini flag on your lapel being against the US flag code, which after all is what this thread is mainly about.

It does the heart good though to see something typed that now needs to be typed in a bunch of other threads, but I won't hold my breath as I value my life too much!

Indeed.

(Jealous, Jim?) :coffee:

[Yurt]

Is Barack Obama trying to lose the 2008 election? His actions certainly point to that conclusion. I, for one, am happy to help fulfill his (apparent) wish.

.

Yes. As I have said all along, Hillary will get the nomination and will be president.

[stephanie]

Yes. As I have said all along, Hillary will get the nomination and will be president.

:slap:
:laugh2:

[Yurt]

:slap:
:laugh2:

I'm not kidding.

[stephanie]

I'm not kidding.

I know your not...That's way I was trying to knock that thought out of your head...:laugh2:

I'm pretty sure she will be the nominee, But President...I hope not...

[Yurt]

I know your not...That's way I was trying to knock that thought out of your head...:laugh2:

I'm pretty sure she will be the nominee, But President...I hope not...

Let us hope. Hate to be movie quoter, but:

hope don't float goldfish


Costner, The Guardian.

[Abbey Marie]

Let us hope. Hate to be movie quoter, but:

hope don't float goldfish


Costner, The Guardian.

On the other hand, there is a movie titled Hope Floats. :coffee:

[manu1959]

Yes. As I have said all along, Hillary will get the nomination and will be president.


every 28 days we will be well and truely fucked.....the rest of the time we will have to hear the laugh of the penguin.....

[stephanie]

On the other hand, there is a movie titled Hope Floats. :coffee:

I like this one better..:laugh2:

[JohnDoe]

No, it wasn't a general school as you put it. It was, by Obama's own admission, a predominately Muslim school, in a predominately Muslim country. Distortion indeed. And I am ah, surprised that you never heard of this.



http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/Obama_2.htm
no abbey...as I showed you with my linked article, Insight mag's article WAS A LIE.

JD

and 2 years in this GENERAL school in a muslim country 40 years ago, is what concerns you?

Well I am surprised at that.... and surprised you did not read the Information I posted that debunked the rumor... from your washington times (Moony affiliate) Insight Magazine???

[JohnDoe]

Wrong again!

Under patriotic customs of the US flag code, section 80, it states:



This is speaking of a SERVICE lapel button, not regular citizens wearing replica lapel buttons of the US flag.

Under section 8 of the US flag code it further states:

You just supported what I said. It is outside of flag code, for people to use the flag pin UNLESS they are a service member or family member, during a time of war and it must be worn on the left lapel and it must be a flag pin that Rumsfeld authorized.... otherwise, it is not okay, not in code????

The only reason I even know of this is because of the burning the flag argument with Pale Rider and Liberal nation a time back and I went to research it....

I thought it was a good tidbit to know....

jd

[Yurt]

You just supported what I said. It is outside of flag code, for people to use the flag pin UNLESS they are a service member or family member, during a time of war and it must be worn on the left lapel and it must be a flag pin that Rumsfeld authorized.... otherwise, it is not okay, not in code????

The only reason I even know of this is because of the burning the flag argument with Pale Rider and Liberal nation a time back and I went to research it....

I thought it was a good tidbit to know....

jd

Do you like mexican food?

[jimnyc]

You just supported what I said. It is outside of flag code, for people to use the flag pin UNLESS they are a service member or family member, during a time of war and it must be worn on the left lapel and it must be a flag pin that Rumsfeld authorized.... otherwise, it is not okay, not in code????

The only reason I even know of this is because of the burning the flag argument with Pale Rider and Liberal nation a time back and I went to research it....

I thought it was a good tidbit to know....

jd

Huh? Did you even bother to read what I wrote? It clearly stated that the part you referred to was a button designated by the secretary of defense to be worn by active military and their family. This has NOTHING to do with replica flags on the lapel.

The flag code clearly states in fact that it IS OK to wear replica flag pins on the lapel.

So no, I didn't support what you wrote, I blew it clear out of the water.

[JohnDoe]

Huh? Did you even bother to read what I wrote? It clearly stated that the part you referred to was a button designated by the secretary of defense to be worn by active military and their family. This has NOTHING to do with replica flags on the lapel.

The flag code clearly states in fact that it IS OK to wear replica flag pins on the lapel.

So no, I didn't support what you wrote, I blew it clear out of the water.i respectfully disagree.

[jimnyc]

i respectfully disagree.

Of course that is your right, should you choose to disagree with clear cut facts delivered to your doorstep. But I'll outline it again so everyone else can get a good laugh.

Under patriotic customs of the US flag code, section 80, it states:


The Secretary of Defense is also authorized and directed to approve a design for a service lapel button, which button may be worn by members of the immediate family of a person serving in the armed forces of the United States during any period of war or hostilities in which the Armed Forces of the United States may be engaged.

The comments you refer to are about a BUTTON which can be worn by military personnel or their family during a time of war.

As far as wearing a replica flag on your lapel:


(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

So respectfully disagree all you like. I respectfully show the board that you are outright disagreeing with indisputable facts.

[actsnoblemartin]

obama is an idiot. Honestly, im the libs are gushing over themselves because he is black, oh my god, we might have a black president. Instead of is he any good :laugh2:




A refusal to feel allegiance to our country, is clearly a lib thing.

Not until the country becomes what they WANT it to be - liberal and govt-dependent to the point of socialism - will they feel any attachment to it. They don't feel a free country of responsible, sovereign individuals is worth preserving.

[stephanie]

With his statement of the flag pin...

He reminds of high school student...good grief...

Yeah vote for me, Obama...I'm ALL grown up...:coffee:

[red states rule]

obama is an idiot. Honestly, im the libs are gushing over themselves because he is black, oh my god, we might have a black president. Instead of is he any good :laugh2:

He is running for VP now

[stephanie]

He is running for VP now

I think he should run for Senior class President....
Then he can get a feel of what politics will be...:laugh2:

[red states rule]

I think he should run for Senior class President....
Then he can get a feel of what politics will be...:laugh2:

He is willing to play second banana to hilary on the ticket and he thinks his presence on the ticket will play to the moonbat left

Hillary and O'Bama - Three Boobs Running for the White House

[Gaffer]

I said back in 04 it would be a hillery obama ticket in 08 and I still stand by that.

[red states rule]

I said back in 04 it would be a hillery obama ticket in 08 and I still stand by that.

That will probably be the ticket

A losing ticket at that

[Gaffer]

That will probably be the ticket

A losing ticket at that

Yeppers, I never said they would win, just that they would run on the same ticket.

[manu1959]

I said back in 04 it would be a hillery obama ticket in 08 and I still stand by that.

i predicted kerry edwards.....:laugh2:

[red states rule]

i predicted kerry edwards.....:laugh2:

Pretty Boy is all but dead. Besides his $400 haircuts and all the extra mirrors that he have put in the White House would cost the taxpayers alot on money

[Abbey Marie]

no abbey...as I showed you with my linked article, Insight mag's article WAS A LIE.

JD

and 2 years in this GENERAL school in a muslim country 40 years ago, is what concerns you?

Well I am surprised at that.... and surprised you did not read the Information I posted that debunked the rumor... from your washington times (Moony affiliate) Insight Magazine???

Did you fail to notice that the facts about his school were from Obama's own autobiographies? Is Obama lying in his own books now? Tsk tsk.

The fact that Barack HUSSEIN Obama attended a predominately Muslim school, in a predominately Muslim country, is true by all accounts.

[Abbey Marie]

Jim you are right about the code and flag lapel pins. It is clear just from a casual reading of the section you quoted, that the code specifies that flag patches are worn only by the military, firemen, etc., but it made no such restriction on flag lapel pins. If a restriction was intended, it would have been mentioned right where the restriction on patches is set out.

From what I can gather, the flag patch, being made of fabric, is considered a flag in itself, whereas the flag pin is considered a replica.

Ditto this web site, which throroughly reviews the Code and flag etiquette: http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html

Not that it says the code is specific about where to wear a flag pin, but no mention is made of any restriction on who can wear one.


Where do you wear a flag lapel pin?
Flag lapel pins have been in the news, including a recent story tracing the timeline of Barack Obama's wearing of a lapel pin.

The Flag Code is quite specific about where to wear it. Section 8j of the Flag Code (see below) reads:

No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.



In any event, Mr. Hussein Obama is not saying he isn't allowed to wear a pin. He is choosing not to for political reasons, and that is the real issue here. all this talk of the violating the code is just blowing up smoke.

[red states rule]

Jim you are right about the code and flag lapel pins. It is clear just from a casual reading of the section you quoted, that the code specifies that flag patches are worn only by the military, firemen, etc., but it made no such restriction on flag lapel pins. If a restriction was intended, it would have been mentioned right where the restriction on patches is set out.

From what I can gather, the flag patch, being made of fabric, is considered a flag in itself, whereas the flag pin is considered a replica.

Ditto this web site, which throroughly reviews the Code and flag etiquette: http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html

Not that it says the code is specific about where to wear a flag pin, but no mention is made of any restriction on who can wear one.





In any event, Mr. Hussein Obama is not saying he isn't allowed to wear a pin. He is choosing not to for political reasons, and that is the real issue here. all this talk of the violating the code is just blowing up smoke.



He is trying to appeal to the Moveon.org kooks - plain and simple

[Gaffer]

He is trying to appeal to the Moveon.org kooks - plain and simple

Yep and as VP he will bring them into hiller's camp while she continues her centrist move to appeal to the rational dems.

[red states rule]

Yep and as VP he will bring them into hiller's camp while she continues her centrist move to appeal to the rational dems.

But that may be backfiring on the Red Queen

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=7633

[red states rule]

ABC is trying to come to the rescue of Obama

ABC Puzzles Over 'Obsession' With U.S. Flag Pins; Notes Nixon Wore One
By Scott Whitlock | October 5, 2007 - 12:24 ET
On Friday's "Good Morning America," ABC reporter David Wright narrated a sympathetic look at Barack Obama's decision not to wear an American flag lapel pin and asserted that this country's "obsession with flag pins is relatively new." To further defend the Democratic presidential candidate, Wright pointedly noted that liberal bogeyman Richard Nixon wore such a pin. He observed, "Ike didn't wear one. JFK either. Nixon did wear the flag as he told the American people he had nothing to do with Watergate."

Of course, Wright himself was not wearing a pin with the U.S. flag on it. As the MRC has previously noted, ABC President David Westin banned on-air talent from having such pins adorn their lapels. In 2003, he deemed it the "patriotic duty" of reporters not to display the flag. At a journalist conference, he elaborated that "after 9/11, the question came up and we, as a matter of policy at ABC News, tell our people on the air, you shall not wear an American flag or any other symbol on the air."


AdvertisementIn a brief follow-up piece, "This Week" host George Stephanopoulos criticized Barack Obama for his explanation surrounding the controversy. He derided the Illinois senator's claim that the pins are a "substitute for... true patriotism," calling that a "mistake." Stephanopoulos asserted, "The problem for him is, in that first answer, he seemed to slam people who did wear the pin as we were moving towards war in Iraq and he was suggesting this was a protest on his part and that was a mistake for Barack Obama."

The ABC anchor predicted the gaffe could "limit his gains further on down the road." Of course, viewers should probably attribute the harshness of Stephanopoulos's statements not to objectivity, but to a continuing loyalty to the Clintons. Just last week, the network host touted talking points e-mails he received from the Hillary Clinton camp during the midst of a debate. On Sunday, the MRC's Brent Baker covered the sycophantic interview Stephanopoulos gave his old boss, Bill Clinton. He cheerfully asked if Clinton would be "okay" with being known as the "the philanthropist who happened to be President."


http://newsbusters.org/blogs/scott-whitlock/2007/10/05/abc-puzzles-over-obsession-u-s-flag-pins-notes-nixon-wore-one

[retiredman]

Did you fail to notice that the facts about his school were from Obama's own autobiographies? Is Obama lying in his own books now? Tsk tsk.

The fact that Barack HUSSEIN Obama attended a predominately Muslim school, in a predominately Muslim country, is true by all accounts.

are you implying that Obama attended a madrassa? Are you implying that muslims are our enemies or are not otherwise fit to be leaders in America? are you implying that Obama is lying about his faith in Jesus or his membership in the United Church of Christ?

Seems to me like you are just being prejudiced... not surprising.

[red states rule]

are you implying that Obama attended a madrassa? Are you implying that muslims are our enemies or are not otherwise fit to be leaders in America? are you implying that Obama is lying about his faith in Jesus or his membership in the United Church of Christ?

Seems to me like you are just being prejudiced... not surprising.

So now Obama is the one lying? He wrote in his book he attended a Madrassa

Being a liberal you know play the race card. Another old, worn out, tried liberal tactic to distract from the issue at hand

[avatar4321]

are you implying that Obama attended a madrassa? Are you implying that muslims are our enemies or are not otherwise fit to be leaders in America? are you implying that Obama is lying about his faith in Jesus or his membership in the United Church of Christ?

Seems to me like you are just being prejudiced... not surprising.

The fact that he has muslim heritage is a rather important fact in this campaign. It wouldnt matter as much if we werent currently in a war against Islamic extremism. But we are. I would think it is only common sense to be curious and concerned at a candidate who may have been Muslim and clearly has some islamic training considering the enemies we are facing today.

[red states rule]

The fact that he has muslim heritage is a rather important fact in this campaign. It wouldnt matter as much if we werent currently in a war against Islamic extremism. But we are. I would think it is only common sense to be curious and concerned at a candidate who may have been Muslim and clearly has some islamic training considering the enemies we are facing today.

Not all Muslims are terrorists

But all terrorists have been Muslims

[avatar4321]

Not all Muslims are terrorists

But all terrorists have been Muslims

i am not sure I agree with that. However, I do think its foolish to think that while engaged in a war against Islamic fascism, we shouldnt know or take account of a Presidential Candidate's muslim roots.

[red states rule]

i am not sure I agree with that. However, I do think its foolish to think that while engaged in a war against Islamic fascism, we shouldnt know or take account of a Presidential Candidate's muslim roots.

I am in no way attacking all Muslims, but from what I have seen all the terrorists caught have been Muslims

[avatar4321]

I am in no way attacking all Muslims, but from what I have seen all the terrorists caught have been Muslims

i never said you were attacking muslims... i think you protest too much.

[red states rule]

i never said you were attacking muslims... i think you protest too much.

I was not directing it at you - it was for the libs who will read this and go into attack mode

[JohnDoe]

Did you fail to notice that the facts about his school were from Obama's own autobiographies? Is Obama lying in his own books now? Tsk tsk.

The fact that Barack HUSSEIN Obama attended a predominately Muslim school, in a predominately Muslim country, is true by all accounts.

And that is a LIE Abbey...or just the lack of concern for truth on your part and facilitating the lie.

At least the part where YOU implied in YOUR POST that Barak went to the same muslim schools as little hitler, Ahmadinejad.


YOu are back tracking imho.

fyi
Here is what is in Barak's books.


As a child, Obama spent four years in Indonesia with his step-father, a non-practicing Muslim, and his mother. Between ages 6 and 8, Obama attended a local Muslim school in Jakarta; after that, he was enrolled in a Roman Catholic school. In his book Dreams Of My Father (p.142), Obama writes:

In Indonesia, I’d spent 2 years at a Muslim school, 2 years at a Catholic school. In the Muslim school, the teacher wrote to tell mother I made faces during Koranic studies. In the Catholic school, when it came time to pray, I’d pretend to close my eyes, then peek around the room. Nothing happened. No angels descended.

In his more recent book, The Audacity of Hope, Obama writes (p.274), “Without the money to go to the international school that most expatriate children attended, I went to local Indonesian schools and ran the streets with the children of farmers, servants, tailors, and clerks.”


Sad that Fox's and the Moony propaganda, has you comparing Obama with Amadinejad.

jd

[jimnyc]

And that is a LIE Abbey

Is that anything like what you said about it being against the law to wear a replica US flag pin on your lapel?

[red states rule]

[QUOTE=JohnDoe;134993]And that is a LIE Abbey...or just the lack of concern for truth on your part and facilitating the lie.

At least the part where YOU implied in YOUR POST that Barak went to the same muslim schools as little hitler, Ahmadinejad.


Hey, he did go to a Muslim school like the little Hiter in Iran.

[JohnDoe]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDoe
i respectfully disagree.

Of course that is your right, should you choose to disagree with clear cut facts delivered to your doorstep. But I'll outline it again so everyone else can get a good laugh.

Under patriotic customs of the US flag code, section 80, it states:


Quote:
The Secretary of Defense is also authorized and directed to approve a design for a service lapel button, which button may be worn by members of the immediate family of a person serving in the armed forces of the United States during any period of war or hostilities in which the Armed Forces of the United States may be engaged.

The comments you refer to are about a BUTTON which can be worn by military personnel or their family during a time of war.

As far as wearing a replica flag on your lapel:


Quote:
(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

So respectfully disagree all you like. I respectfully show the board that you are outright disagreeing with indisputable facts.



§179. Design for service flag; persons entitled to display flag
The Secretary of Defense is authorized and directed to approve a design for a service flag, which flag may be displayed in a window of the place of residence of persons who are members of the immediate family of a person serving in the armed forces of the United States during any period of war or hostilities in which the Armed Forces of the United States may be engaged.



§180. Design for service lapel button; persons entitled to wear button
The Secretary of Defense is also authorized and directed to approve a design for a service lapel button, which button may be worn by members of the immediate family of a person serving in the armed forces of the United States during any period of war or hostilities in which the Armed Forces of the United States may be engaged.



§181. Approval of designs by Secretary of Defense; license to manufacture and sell; penalties
Upon the approval by the Secretary of Defense of the design for such service flag and service lapel button, he shall cause notice thereof, together with a description of the approved flag and button, to be published in the Federal Register. Thereafter any person may apply to the Secretary of Defense for a license to manufacture and sell the approved service flag, or the approved service lapel button, or both. Any person, firm, or corporation who manufactures any such service flag or service lapel button without having first obtained such a license, or otherwise violates sections 179 to 182 of this title, shall, upon conviction thereof, be fined not more than $1,000.



§182. Rules and regulations
The Secretary of Defense is authorized to make such rules and regulations as may be necessary to carry out the provisions of sections 179 to 182 of this title.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim

the flag code does not say who CAN NOT wear the flag pin, but it does say WHO CAN....as noted in the bold.

I disagree with you and your argument on this.... the instructions of where the flag pin can be worn and the flag patch can be worn, is for those AUTHORIZED by flag code to wear them.

and Abbey's link that she posted on this is very informative and if READ by ANYONE, it proves that the stance I have taken on this is correct regarding respect/customs for our flag.

this site also gives examples of things that our flag is put on and whether it follows flag code and respect for the flag...

And things like our stamps, with the flag, are considered BREAKING Flag code and respect for the flag....which surprised even me!


It is no biggie to me, the flag code and ediquette is IGNORED by everyone in all aspects of our commercial society....

Again, this is why I disagree with you!

http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html#178

http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html

[Missileman]

§179. Design for service flag; persons entitled to display flag
The Secretary of Defense is authorized and directed to approve a design for a service flag, which flag may be displayed in a window of the place of residence of persons who are members of the immediate family of a person serving in the armed forces of the United States during any period of war or hostilities in which the Armed Forces of the United States may be engaged.



§180. Design for service lapel button; persons entitled to wear button
The Secretary of Defense is also authorized and directed to approve a design for a service lapel button, which button may be worn by members of the immediate family of a person serving in the armed forces of the United States during any period of war or hostilities in which the Armed Forces of the United States may be engaged.




§181. Approval of designs by Secretary of Defense; license to manufacture and sell; penalties
Upon the approval by the Secretary of Defense of the design for such service flag and service lapel button, he shall cause notice thereof, together with a description of the approved flag and button, to be published in the Federal Register. Thereafter any person may apply to the Secretary of Defense for a license to manufacture and sell the approved service flag, or the approved service lapel button, or both. Any person, firm, or corporation who manufactures any such service flag or service lapel button without having first obtained such a license, or otherwise violates sections 179 to 182 of this title, shall, upon conviction thereof, be fined not more than $1,000.



§182. Rules and regulations
The Secretary of Defense is authorized to make such rules and regulations as may be necessary to carry out the provisions of sections 179 to 182 of this title.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim

the flag code does not say who CAN NOT wear the flag pin, but it does say WHO CAN....as noted in the bold.

I disagree with you and your argument on this.... the instructions of where the flag pin can be worn and the flag patch can be worn, is for those AUTHORIZED by flag code to wear them.

and Abbey's link that she posted on this is very informative and if READ by ANYONE, it proves that the stance I have taken on this is correct regarding respect/customs for our flag.

this site also gives examples of things that our flag is put on and whether it follows flag code and respect for the flag...

And things like our stamps, with the flag, are considered BREAKING Flag code and respect for the flag....which surprised even me!


It is no biggie to me, the flag code and ediquette is IGNORED by everyone in all aspects of our commercial society....

Again, this is why I disagree with you!

http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html#178

http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html

You are confusing two different items. A Service lapel button, described in 180 is not the same thing as a lapel flag pin mentioned in 176. Pay close attention to the part of 180 that discusses the Sec of Def authorizing and approving the DESIGN of a button. Lapel flag pins are simply replicas of the flag and wouldn't need any special design.


Look here: http://www.usmm.org/medals.html

Scroll down the page until you get to "Service flag and Service Lapel button"

[JohnDoe]

You are confusing two different items. A Service lapel button, described in 180 is not the same thing as a lapel flag pin mentioned in 176. Pay close attention to the part of 180 that discusses the Sec of Def authorizing and approving the DESIGN of a button. Lapel flag pins are simply replicas of the flag and wouldn't need any special design.


Look here: http://www.usmm.org/medals.html

Scroll down the page until you get to "Service flag and Service Lapel button"


ahhhh thanks! Misselman

But I think you just confirmed my original stance and nixed Jim's argument.... but I could be wrong?

I was discussing flag pins, which also should be worn on the left lapel, not the right or not on the neckline, but on the left lapel....for respect and custom. I have read this somewhere.... I thought Jim's post of 180 might have been where I had read it, but now I think I was wrong, since 180 is about a service lapel BUTTON, not the flag or involved in the etiquette of the flag as you just pointed out in your link regarding the buttons of service.

The one site that Abbey linked is very informative regarding the respect and etiquette involved with our Flag....it showed picture after picture scenarios of where the flag has been used by our government and commercial entities and how MOST ALL OF THEM are not following the customs, or ettiquette on Flag Respect... including the Stamps we have, with representation of the Flag are considered a "no, no".....

I suppose, that this is something that is in the eye of the beholder, flag respect, and not necessarily what has been writen about flag etiquette, but how one interprets it....or how strongly they view the Flag as a Living object, which is what it is suppose to be thought of....as a living object.

I was clueless on all of this and have grown to appreciate our flag much more than I ever did, than before we had this argument on this site, a little while back.

jd

[jimnyc]

ahhhh thanks! Misselman

But I think you just confirmed my original stance and nixed Jim's argument.... but I could be wrong?

As usual, you're WRONG.

He said EXACTLY what I've been telling you. I've explained 3 times now that you keep referring to a BUTTON that is to be designed by the secretary of defense and NOT a replica flag pin. The replica flag pin is perfectly acceptable.

But keep digging yourself deeper rather than just admit you're wrong. It's kinda cute watching you squirm!

[Missileman]

ahhhh thanks! Misselman

But I think you just confirmed my original stance and nixed Jim's argument.... but I could be wrong?


If it is still your argument that civilians are prohibited from wearing lapel flag pins, I nixed your stance. As a matter of fact, the code says nothing about who can or can't wear the lapel flag pin, but interestingly enough the flag pin is mentioned after:


§173. Display and use of flag by civilians; codification of rules and customs; definition
The following codification of existing rules and customs pertaining to the display and use of the flag of the United States of America is established for the use of such civilians or civilian groups or organizations as may not be required to conform with regulations promulgated by one or more executive departments of the Government of the United States. The flag of the United States for the purpose of this chapter shall be defined according to sections 1 and 2 of title 4 and Executive Order 10834 issued pursuant thereto.

It is very clear that 174-177 are the civilian guidelines for the treatment of the US flag.

[jimnyc]

the flag code does not say who CAN NOT wear the flag pin, but it does say WHO CAN....as noted in the bold.

Amazing.

The part you mention that you placed in bold clearly says BUTTON and yet you repeat it here as pin.

Comprehend much?

[JohnDoe]

If it is still your argument that civilians are prohibited from wearing lapel flag pins, I nixed your stance. As a matter of fact, the code says nothing about who can or can't wear the lapel flag pin, but interestingly enough the flag pin is mentioned after:



It is very clear that 174-177 are the civilian guidelines for the treatment of the US flag.


ok. i can accept that i am probably wrong and you and jim are right! jd

[Abbey Marie]

And that is a LIE Abbey...or just the lack of concern for truth on your part and facilitating the lie.

At least the part where YOU implied in YOUR POST that Barak went to the same muslim schools as little hitler, Ahmadinejad.


YOu are back tracking imho.

fyi
Here is what is in Barak's books.



Sad that Fox's and the Moony propaganda, has you comparing Obama with Amadinejad.

jd


First, go on and try to prove that I said they went to the same school. I did not disagree with Red that they both went to "a" Muslim school. Do you not understand what that preposition means in this context? Is your reading comprehension really that poor, JD?

Second, you know damn well, or should, that I am not a liar. It is noted that you have stooped that low, and will not be forgotten.

I am sorry that it is difficult for you to hear that the man you apparently support went to a predominately Muslim school, has the name Hussein, and refuses to wear a replica of our nation's flag on his lapel. It must suck for you that these things cause some concern in many Americans. But that's how it goes.

[SpidermanTUba]

First Obama announces that we should sit down and talk with our enemies, as though they had any interest in compromising. Then he says that we should bomb our friends in the Middle East.

Now he announces that he won't wear an American flag pin on his lapel during public appearances.

Is Barack Obama trying to lose the 2008 election? His actions certainly point to that conclusion. I, for one, am happy to help fulfill his (apparent) wish.

-------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8S2JKG02&show_article=1

Obama Stops Wearing Flag Pin

Oct 4 03:06 PM US/Eastern

WATERLOO, Iowa (AP) - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said he doesn't wear the American flag lapel pin because it has become a substitute for "true patriotism" since the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.
Asked about the decision Wednesday in an interview with KCRG-TV in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, the Illinois senator said he stopped doing so shortly after the attacks and instead hoped to show his patriotism by explaining his ideas to citizens.

"The truth is that right after 9-11 I had a pin," Obama said. "Shortly after 9-11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq war, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security.

"I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest," he said in the interview. "Instead, I'm going to try to tell the American people what I believe will make this country great, and hopefully that will be a testament to my patriotism."

Obama was campaigning in Iowa Thursday, the second day of a four-day trip to the early voting state.




Obama is just following the US flag code

"(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general."

http://www.suvcw.org/flag.htm

[Monkeybone]

Obama is just following the US flag code

"(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general."

http://www.suvcw.org/flag.htm

that is the flag itself numbnuts, not a pin/button of the flag. read what you post, or better yet catch up with what has been posted already.

think a physics grad would have reading comp skills.

and for ppl that support the burning of a flag for free speach, yet not a pin of it? gimme a break.

[hjmick]

He doesn't wear a flag pin. Who cares? It's not an issue that will influence my decision one iota when it comes to voting.

[Monkeybone]

He doesn't wear a flag pin. Who cares? It's not an issue that will influence my decision one iota when it comes to voting.

exactly. he doesn't wanna wear the pin, and show what kinda guy he is with his actions. more power to him. more ppl should do that in life instead of fallin back onto what the 'cool' crowd is doing

[typomaniac]

He's making a point. He's saying wearing the flag doesn't make you a good candidate, good ideas and good policies do. Just because he's not wearing a flag pin doesn't mean he's "shunning the flag." That's preposterous.

Considering that wearing the flag doesn't do any harm, it was a tremendously fucking stupid thing for him to do. I'm very disappointed in him now.