Should any U.S. military be sent to assist Ukraine?

[revelarts]

Any, I mean Any, Air support, troops "advisors".

[Gunny]

Any, I mean Any, Air support, troops "advisors".Just assume some say yes and some say no and get on with where you're going with this :rolleyes:

[revelarts]

Just assume some say yes and some say no and get on with where you're going with this :rolleyes:

I'm just curious to the state of the board.
based on things i've seen outside of here I've pretty much resigned myself to the idea that many are being lead down the path to war again.
Most folks are moving in that direction.
just wonder what stage folks are at here.
And what thoughts go behind justification for it.

Where did you think i wanted to go?

[Gunny]

I'm just curious to the state of the board.
based on things i've seen outside of here I've pretty much resigned myself to the idea that many are being lead down the path to war again.
Most folks are moving in that direction.
just wonder what stage folks are at here.
And what thoughts go behind justification for it.

Where did you think i wanted to go?Led? Who is leading us down the path to war? The people you think are leading us down this dark path have done their level best and then some for MONTHS to try and get Putin to not commit to his current path of war.

The people who are "for" are for freedom not being just for us and screw you if you live in the rundown neighborhood. Anybody that is for or wants war is a fool. When forced to use war as means to achieve the greater good, it's just a tool. Not something anyone likes or wants.

We don't get to cherrypick reality and deal only with the pleasant things.

[revelarts]

Led? Who is leading us down the path to war? The people you think are leading us down this dark path have done their level best and then some for MONTHS to try and get Putin to not commit to his current path of war.

The people who are "for" are for freedom not being just for us and screw you if you live in the rundown neighborhood. Anybody that is for or wants war is a fool. When forced to use war as means to achieve the greater good, it's just a tool. Not something anyone likes or wants.

We don't get to cherrypick reality and deal only with the pleasant things.

thanks for letting me know where you're coming from.
That's all i'm looking for.

And Gunny I think we both see "reality" but my view of it goes back a least to the 2014 coup, the attacks following, and to NATOs expansion since 1980x.
But hey everyone has their own take on what's counts as most important in "reality" and what's a just cause for war.
And that's all I'm trying to see.

[Gunny]

thanks for letting me know where you're coming from.
That's all i'm looking for.

And Gunny I think we both see "reality" but my view of it goes back a least to the 2014 coup, the attacks following, and to NATOs expansion since 1980x.
But hey everyone has their own take on what's counts as most important in "reality" and what's a just cause for war.
And that's all I'm trying to see.Something to add:

How many people do you suppose are dying each day, each moment, in Ukraine while the West tries to "talk" Putin out of his war and avoid escalation?

[icansayit]

Gunny and I both know what WAR is like, and I believe Gunny feels like me. Which is why I voted NO.
For anyone who's never experienced WAR. There's no real way to tell them about all of the feelings and fears that go with it.
POLITICIANS make war because it's their BIG DOLLAR investment later on while The Military does all of the Hard, Deadly work only to get the SHORT END OF THE POLITICAL DEALS.

You may not know. There isn't a day I personally go through when I don't think about FIVE high school friends who all joined the military the same year I did. And THREE of those friends have their name etched in a wall in Washington, D.C.
NEVER AGAIN would I wish any other AMERICAN have to pay that price.

[revelarts]

Something to add:

How many people do you suppose are dying each day, each moment, in Ukraine while the West tries to "talk" Putin out of his war and avoid escalation?

I don't know, whatever the number it's too many.

I guess the question i have to ask following that is, how many more will die if NATO and the U.S. send military in?
How much more of Ukraine will be destroyed?

And Compared to how many will die if Putin just leaves after talks.
And Compared to How many will die if Zelensky just surrenders?

[fj1200]

I don't know, whatever the number it's too many.

I guess the question i have to ask following that is, how many more will die if NATO and the U.S. send military in?
How much more of Ukraine will be destroyed?

And Compared to how many will die if Putin just leaves after talks.
And Compared to How many will die if Zelensky just surrenders?

Some things are worth fighting and/or dying for.

[Gunny]

I don't know, whatever the number it's too many.

I guess the question i have to ask following that is, how many more will die if NATO and the U.S. send military in?
How much more of Ukraine will be destroyed?

And Compared to how many will die if Putin just leaves after talks.
And Compared to How many will die if Zelensky just surrenders?

If NATO steps in more will die. Less than if they don't.

Putin is destroying Ukraine. Any stop to Putin's destruction of Ukraine is less destruction than he is carrying out.

If Putin just leaves the war ends.

If Zelenskiy surrenders, Putin will continue his purge and others will take up the resistance banner.

So, Choice "C" is my preferred choice. It is also the only option that ends well. It is the least likely to happen. As Boogeyman pointed out in another thread, Putin's in too deep now. It's win or die for him.

Almost as unlikely is Putin being overthrown from within. Even if that was to happen, don't look for any hunky-dory ending. Russia will still hate the West and withdraw to start all over again.

You mentioned somewhere history doesn't matter. Yes it does. This fight is for the same piece of land Russia and Name our opponent have been fighting over since the Rurikid dynasty in the 500 ADs. Only the names and excuses have changed.

[revelarts]

Some things are worth fighting and/or dying for.

yes there are,
But, as i look at the poll right now, some things are not even worth VOTING FOR in an online poll, on a board with less than 100 people active.

[Gunny]

yes there are,
But, as i look at the poll right now, some things are not even worth VOTING FOR in an online poll, on a board with less than 100 people active.I'm not real keen on your choices. Don't take it personally. I dislike polls for that very reason. Closed end choices.

I'm for giving Ukraine everything it needs to push Russia back to Russia, to include retaking Crimea. I'm for letting the Ukrainians do their own fighting. Fighting other people's wars always ends with them letting us do it :rolleyes: Keeping European alphabet bureaucracies and especially the US government out offers Ukraine a far better chance at succeeding.

[fj1200]

yes there are,
But, as i look at the poll right now, some things are not even worth VOTING FOR in an online poll, on a board with less than 100 people active.

I gave you another response.

[jimnyc]

Any, I mean Any, Air support, troops "advisors".

Really tough question right now.

Would any boots helping them, whether from the ground or air - would Russia then see that as a declaration of war? Would they try to retaliate against whatever country that was?

I do think they should help them with perhaps intelligence gathering as every other country is likely much more sophisticated. Help advise too, absolutely.

But if someone puts jets in the air and/or creates some sort of no-fly zone, what would happen next? Many have been sending them advanced weaponry which is great, but how far will it take them? How many over there know how to use all of these things someone may send?

Russia hasn't looked like a powerhouse, IMO. Nonetheless, would it be wise for anyone to get fully involved? Russia is "scary" to everyone and everyone is nervous about their advanced missiles and such.

Or, should it boil down to "doing the right thing"?

I don't know these answers, but I don't think we should be leading any charge. Let others in the vicinity go first and let us know. :)

I wish I could give better answers but I simply just don't know. Part of me thinks we should jump in fully and stop the onslaught, but then WE are at war - with Russia. Not good, IMO.

[icansayit]

Really tough question right now.

Would any boots helping them, whether from the ground or air - would Russia then see that as a declaration of war? Would they try to retaliate against whatever country that was?

I do think they should help them with perhaps intelligence gathering as every other country is likely much more sophisticated. Help advise too, absolutely.

But if someone puts jets in the air and/or creates some sort of no-fly zone, what would happen next? Many have been sending them advanced weaponry which is great, but how far will it take them? How many over there know how to use all of these things someone may send?

Russia hasn't looked like a powerhouse, IMO. Nonetheless, would it be wise for anyone to get fully involved? Russia is "scary" to everyone and everyone is nervous about their advanced missiles and such.

Or, should it boil down to "doing the right thing"?

I don't know these answers, but I don't think we should be leading any charge. Let others in the vicinity go first and let us know. :)

I wish I could give better answers but I simply just don't know. Part of me thinks we should jump in fully and stop the onslaught, but then WE are at war - with Russia. Not good, IMO.

Most of America, and American veterans who are still alive who have been in war know...WE NEVER LEARNED FROM VIETNAM, and the same for AFGHANISTAN.
Even the Russians know Afghan was a losing Battle start to finish, and we copied them, only LONGER.
Helping the Ukraine with Weapons, aircraft, ships, and ammo is fine with me. But NO MORE AMERICAN LIVES...NOW CALLED BOOTS ON THE GROUND is Foolish, And WRONG.
That's my personal take on it. Even though (Despite Biden and the Dems) We still have the strongest Military in the World.

[revelarts]

-04-07-2022-
=bump=

[Gunny]

-04-07-2022-
=bump=Why? You already have a couple of current threads on the topic. You're starting to remind me of Jillian. Running from thread to thread with teh same topic because you don't like the last same answers to the same questions. Those answers don't disappear because you start a new slate or necro some relic from the past.

Quit running around all over the place and stand and fight.