The real truth about Blackwater

[gabosaurus]

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com

Here's the secret test for discovering if you're worthy to be an employee of Blackwater USA, the corporation that sends mercenaries to hot spots to do the work of the United States, and, well, anyone who'll pay them: You are led into a room and in front of you is a row of asses of men bent over, but who are hidden by a curtain so that all you see are asses. You are told by your tester that each man there has agreed to let you fuck him in the ass. Now, to see if you are Blackwater material, you need to start fucking. A normal human being might have a bout of conscience, wondering if what you are being told about the men is true, that you can't do it and you need to leave. A perverse human being might get turned on by the whole idea and examine which particular ass he'd like to ram. But if you shrug, say you don't care, drop your pants, and just start randomly fucking, moving from ass to ass, well, then, mister, you are Blackwater material.

Just imagine: you tell some alcoholic pistol-fellating badass wannabes that they'll get paid a thou a day to drive around Baghdad in Hummers with submachine guns and not only do they not have to follow military code, they can't even be prosecuted for "misfires." Why, they might go batshit crazy with power.

Without getting too much into the shit you can discover by reading Jeremy Scahill's book on Blackwater, its website is filled with tough guy t-shirt bullshit: "When failure is not an option and hope is not enough." It's enough to make your crazy uncle living outside Reno jack off in anticipation of killing some brown people. You may have never gotten to be that Navy SEAL, but Blackwater can make your paramilitary fantasies come true.

Now that Henry Waxman's House Oversight Committee has released a report on just how out of control Blackwater has been in Iraq, we can all act appalled that mercenary soldiers might behave like, you know, mercenaries - soldiers with no loyalty other than cash. Says the report, "In total, Blackwater has received over $1 billion in federal contracts from 2001 through 2006, including more than $832 million under two contracts with the State Department to provide protective services in Iraq." 'Cause, see, if your business is making a billion dollars or so in a war zone, you pretty much have a stake in making sure that war continues.

But, hey, at least we found out what a dead Iraqi is worth in the amazing tale of the drunk Blackwater merc who, apparently because he didn't like being confronted by an Iraqi, shot a guard for Iraq's Vice President three times, killing the man. Then it was time to pay off the family: "Internally, the Embassy had differing opinions on the amount of compensation. The Charge d'Affaires initially proposed a $250,000 payment, then suggested $100,000. The Diplomatic Security Service opposed these figures as too high. One DSS official called the Charge d'Affaires' proposals 'crazy sums' and stated that such a figure could cause Iraqis to 'try to get killed so as to set up their family financially.' Noting that there previously had been a payout of $5,000 for 'a guy's car and a wound to the leg,' the official recommended a $15,000 to $25,000 payment."

That's right: life sucks so bad in Iraq that people might intentionally get killed by the U.S. so they're families can get paid. It's okay, though, because Blackwater and the United States only paid $15,000, which is a bargain if a car and a leg are worth five grand.

By the way, an official Blackwater onesie for your baby is only $18.00. God bless...who now?

[theHawk]

How about actually telling some facts rather than writing some fantasy about gay butt-sex?

[diuretic]

That was a hoot! :laugh2:

[Gunny]

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com

Here's the secret test for discovering if you're worthy to be an employee of Blackwater USA, the corporation that sends mercenaries to hot spots to do the work of the United States, and, well, anyone who'll pay them: You are led into a room and in front of you is a row of asses of men bent over, but who are hidden by a curtain so that all you see are asses. You are told by your tester that each man there has agreed to let you fuck him in the ass. Now, to see if you are Blackwater material, you need to start fucking. A normal human being might have a bout of conscience, wondering if what you are being told about the men is true, that you can't do it and you need to leave. A perverse human being might get turned on by the whole idea and examine which particular ass he'd like to ram. But if you shrug, say you don't care, drop your pants, and just start randomly fucking, moving from ass to ass, well, then, mister, you are Blackwater material.

Just imagine: you tell some alcoholic pistol-fellating badass wannabes that they'll get paid a thou a day to drive around Baghdad in Hummers with submachine guns and not only do they not have to follow military code, they can't even be prosecuted for "misfires." Why, they might go batshit crazy with power.

Without getting too much into the shit you can discover by reading Jeremy Scahill's book on Blackwater, its website is filled with tough guy t-shirt bullshit: "When failure is not an option and hope is not enough." It's enough to make your crazy uncle living outside Reno jack off in anticipation of killing some brown people. You may have never gotten to be that Navy SEAL, but Blackwater can make your paramilitary fantasies come true.

Now that Henry Waxman's House Oversight Committee has released a report on just how out of control Blackwater has been in Iraq, we can all act appalled that mercenary soldiers might behave like, you know, mercenaries - soldiers with no loyalty other than cash. Says the report, "In total, Blackwater has received over $1 billion in federal contracts from 2001 through 2006, including more than $832 million under two contracts with the State Department to provide protective services in Iraq." 'Cause, see, if your business is making a billion dollars or so in a war zone, you pretty much have a stake in making sure that war continues.

But, hey, at least we found out what a dead Iraqi is worth in the amazing tale of the drunk Blackwater merc who, apparently because he didn't like being confronted by an Iraqi, shot a guard for Iraq's Vice President three times, killing the man. Then it was time to pay off the family: "Internally, the Embassy had differing opinions on the amount of compensation. The Charge d'Affaires initially proposed a $250,000 payment, then suggested $100,000. The Diplomatic Security Service opposed these figures as too high. One DSS official called the Charge d'Affaires' proposals 'crazy sums' and stated that such a figure could cause Iraqis to 'try to get killed so as to set up their family financially.' Noting that there previously had been a payout of $5,000 for 'a guy's car and a wound to the leg,' the official recommended a $15,000 to $25,000 payment."

That's right: life sucks so bad in Iraq that people might intentionally get killed by the U.S. so they're families can get paid. It's okay, though, because Blackwater and the United States only paid $15,000, which is a bargain if a car and a leg are worth five grand.

By the way, an official Blackwater onesie for your baby is only $18.00. God bless...who now?

The "real truth about Blackwater" is it is a security force hired by the State Dept to provide physical security of State Dept officials and to date, Blackwater has lost 28 of its own men while losing ZERO packages.

An impressive record, to say the least. So the "truth" is, it's a professional organization that delivers what it advertises.

[truthmatters]

What a very sad little part of this whole mess Blackwater is. I have to wonder if they killed American soldiers who threatened to tell on them? On soldier a couple of months ago was killed by guys in black SUVs who spoke english to each other. The young man had a appointment with a congressman and a well know journalist pending.



http://tinyurl.com/yrvaet

[Gunny]

What a very sad little part of this whole mess Blackwater is. I have to wonder if they killed American soldiers who threatened to tell on them? On soldier a couple of months ago was killed by guys in black SUVs who spoke english to each other. The young man had a appointment with a congressman and a well know journalist pending.



http://tinyurl.com/yrvaet

:tinfoil:

[truthmatters]

Gunny I know this is not proof and like I said I have to wonder.

They were driving what blackwater drives and were speakign english to each other. There is obviously sonething wrong with the way Blackwater does business and they are beig investigated now( the R would not investigate anything) What if this young man SAW something in his civil officers position which would cause some particular BW people to be in big trouble. Lets not forget what BW is currently accused of.

[diuretic]

Blackwater is about privatisation of war. Privatisation means not having to be accountable. With a bit of luck that has just stopped.

[Gunny]

Gunny I know this is not proof and like I said I have to wonder.

They were driving what blackwater drives and were speakign english to each other. There is obviously sonething wrong with the way Blackwater does business and they are beig investigated now( the R would not investigate anything) What if this young man SAW something in his civil officers position which would cause some particular BW people to be in big trouble. Lets not forget what BW is currently accused of.


There is nothing to wonder. Pure speculation on your part.

There is nothign wrong with the way Blackwater does business other than it can be politicized and used to suit an agenda. Black water is paid to ensure State Dept official arrive safely from point A to point B. That's what they do.

If you want to blame someone, blame the people attacking them. Without the initial attack, nobody drawsa weapon. Simple as that.

[truthmatters]

Gunny they have been shooting first about 80% of the time.

[Gunny]

Gunny they have been shooting first about 80% of the time.

Right. First, I don't believe it. Second, even if they did, so what? If engagement is inevitable, shooting first makes perfectly good tactical sense.

[Gunny]

Blackwater is about privatisation of war. Privatisation means not having to be accountable. With a bit of luck that has just stopped.

How is it privatization of war? Last I checked, the US State Dept wasn't on the list of US military assets.

It's about hiring physical protection. Hardly new or novel.

With a bit of luck, the idiots trying to blow this shit out of proportion will be told by cooler heads to sit down and STFU.

[diuretic]

How is it privatization of war? Last I checked, the US State Dept wasn't on the list of US military assets.

It's about hiring physical protection. Hardly new or novel.

With a bit of luck, the idiots trying to blow this shit out of proportion will be told by cooler heads to sit down and STFU.

Yep you have me.

It's about privatisation of an occupation. The military invaded and took the ground first. The contractors came later.

[jimnyc]

Gunny they have been shooting first about 80% of the time.

Can you please cite credible proof to back this up?

Also, PLEASE stop using "tinyurl" to mask all of your links. There's absolutely no reason to mask links here, and it prevents members from knowing what pages they are going to before clicking on said link. A direct link will suffice.

[Monkeybone]

What a very sad little part of this whole mess Blackwater is. I have to wonder if they killed American soldiers who threatened to tell on them? On soldier a couple of months ago was killed by guys in black SUVs who spoke english to each other. The young man had a appointment with a congressman and a well know journalist pending.



http://tinyurl.com/yrvaet

cuz Americans are the only ones that speak English and drive suvs right? how about a better :link:.... you know since this one says insurgents. not masked or white guys.

the guy that wrote this blog has some surpressed homosexual issues it sounds like. maybe he should head on down to that Folsom Fair thing. wouldn't it be easier to walk in and just shoot each guy?

[Nukeman]

cuz Americans are the only ones that speak English and drive suvs right? how about a better :link:.... you know since this one says insurgents. not masked or white guys.

the guy that wrote this blog has some surpressed homosexual issues it sounds like. maybe he should head on down to that Folsom Fair thing. wouldn't it be easier to walk in and just shoot each guy?

Monkey, I would rep you for this but cant at this time!!!

[truthmatters]

Can you please cite credible proof to back this up?

Also, PLEASE stop using "tinyurl" to mask all of your links. There's absolutely no reason to mask links here, and it prevents members from knowing what pages they are going to before clicking on said link. A direct link will suffice.
Blackwater usually fired first in Iraq - lawmaker
Mon Oct 1, 2007 3:41pm EDT
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Featured Broker sponsored link
¥ € $ - Learn. Practice. Trade.By Sue Pleming

WASHINGTON, Oct 1 (Reuters) - U.S. security contractor Blackwater has been involved in at least 195 shooting incidents in Iraq since 2005 and, in eight of 10 cases, their forces fired first, a leading U.S. lawmaker said on Monday.

State Department contractor Blackwater, under investigation for the shooting deaths of 11 Iraqis on Sept. 16, will answer questions about that incident and its performance in Iraq at a Congressional hearing on Tuesday.

Senior State Department officials will also be grilled by the House of Representatives Committee on Oversight and Government Reform examining whether the growing use of military contractors undermines U.S. efforts in Iraq.

Committee chair Rep. Henry Waxman, a vocal critic of the Iraq war, released details from Blackwater's own reports of multiple incidents involving Iraqi casualties. The memorandum also slammed the State Department's oversight of the company.

It listed 195 shooting incidents from the start of 2005 until Sept. 12 of this year, an average of 1.4 per week. Of those, there were 16 Iraqi casualties and 162 cases with property damage, the California Democrat said.

"In 32 of those incidents, Blackwater were returning fire after an attack while on 163 occasions (84 percent of the shooting incidents), Blackwater personnel were the first to fire," Waxman said.





http://tinyurl.com/3ae9hc

I Tinyurled this before I was this post.

I do it because it makes the link stable so you can repost it and it will still work.

I dont use it to trick people I use it to make the link easy and stable.

[jimnyc]

http://tinyurl.com/3ae9hc

I Tinyurled this before I was this post.

I do it because it makes the link stable so you can repost it and it will still work.

I dont use it to trick people I use it to make the link easy and stable.

Thank you for the link.

Tinyurl will then relay to the original site. If the original site is no longer available, then the tinyurl link is useless as well. Their service is simply for masking urls, nothing more and nothing less. It makes it no more stable at all. In fact, it makes it less stable as you now have to rely on 2 websites to get to the information, and if tinyurl is unavailable at the moment you will never get to the proper destination. That, coupled with the fact that users don't like to click on links not knowing where they'll end up, is why I ask you to just post direct links to sources.

[Gunny]

Yep you have me.

It's about privatisation of an occupation. The military invaded and took the ground first. The contractors came later.

Completely irrelevant to the fact that noncombatant government officials need physical security.

I'm all fro replacing Blackwater with a battalion of Marines. That ought to cut casualties down, right?:poke:

[truthmatters]

Thank you for the link.

Tinyurl will then relay to the original site. If the original site is no longer available, then the tinyurl link is useless as well. Their service is simply for masking urls, nothing more and nothing less. It makes it no more stable at all. In fact, it makes it less stable as you now have to rely on 2 websites to get to the information, and if tinyurl is unavailable at the moment you will never get to the proper destination. That, coupled with the fact that users don't like to click on links not knowing where they'll end up, is why I ask you to just post direct links to sources.

But Jimmy I have had the tinyurl link which you can just copy off a previous post work and a regular link copied from a post wont work.
It makes it so you can bring the information back to show someone and have the link still work.

[Gunny]

Blackwater usually fired first in Iraq - lawmaker
Mon Oct 1, 2007 3:41pm EDT
Email | Print | Digg | Reprints | Single Page | Recommend (0) [-] Text [+]



powered by Sphere
Featured Broker sponsored link
¥ € $ - Learn. Practice. Trade.By Sue Pleming

WASHINGTON, Oct 1 (Reuters) - U.S. security contractor Blackwater has been involved in at least 195 shooting incidents in Iraq since 2005 and, in eight of 10 cases, their forces fired first, a leading U.S. lawmaker said on Monday.

State Department contractor Blackwater, under investigation for the shooting deaths of 11 Iraqis on Sept. 16, will answer questions about that incident and its performance in Iraq at a Congressional hearing on Tuesday.

Senior State Department officials will also be grilled by the House of Representatives Committee on Oversight and Government Reform examining whether the growing use of military contractors undermines U.S. efforts in Iraq.

Committee chair Rep. Henry Waxman, a vocal critic of the Iraq war, released details from Blackwater's own reports of multiple incidents involving Iraqi casualties. The memorandum also slammed the State Department's oversight of the company.

It listed 195 shooting incidents from the start of 2005 until Sept. 12 of this year, an average of 1.4 per week. Of those, there were 16 Iraqi casualties and 162 cases with property damage, the California Democrat said.

"In 32 of those incidents, Blackwater were returning fire after an attack while on 163 occasions (84 percent of the shooting incidents), Blackwater personnel were the first to fire," Waxman said.





http://tinyurl.com/3ae9hc

I Tinyurled this before I was this post.

I do it because it makes the link stable so you can repost it and it will still work.

I dont use it to trick people I use it to make the link easy and stable.

And I will repeat have lost ZERO state dept officials. If that means firing first 100% of the time, fine with me.

What is absent in that number is the situations encountered by Blackwater operatives. Not that Waxman would EVER think of obscurring the truth. If there were actual crimes committed he'd have had them printed in bold; which, means he's running his yap about situations he knows nothing about.

[jimnyc]

But Jimmy I have had the tinyurl link which you can just copy off a previous post work and a regular link copied from a post wont work.
It makes it so you can bring the information back to show someone and have the link still work.

You can copy direct links from prior posts just as easy. They get truncated to save space when posted, but all you need to do is right click on any link on the board and "copy link location" and you can re-paste it anywhere. These links are more stable and the members will then know what they are clicking on beforehand.

[truthmatters]

And I will repeat have lost ZERO state dept officials. If that means firing first 100% of the time, fine with me.

What is absent in that number is the situations encountered by Blackwater operatives. Not that Waxman would EVER think of obscurring the truth. If there were actual crimes committed he'd have had them printed in bold; which, means he's running his yap about situations he knows nothing about.


The number says what it says. It says BW will fire first and then not even ask questions later. They are guns for hire to keep the troop levels down.
They dont have to follow the same rules and are making the Iraqis hate us.

[Nukeman]

The number says what it says. It says BW will fire first and then not even ask questions later. They are guns for hire to keep the troop levels down.
They dont have to follow the same rules and are making the Iraqis hate us.

By being able to shoot first they are able to "PROTECT" their employers do yo understand that. I dont think they are making the Iraqis hate us. I think they are making the criminal element that wants to kidnap, ransom and kill these individuals very nervous and they may hate us for it...

[truthmatters]

They are killing innocent Iraqis in the process. This is what the entire investigation is about. They killed like nineteen people two weeks ago . Women and Childern died for no reason. How would that make you feel about foriegner in your country driving arround in big black SUVs shooting people first because they heard a noise?

To pretend this does not effect whats going on in Iraq is not realistic

[manu1959]

The number says what it says. It says BW will fire first and then not even ask questions later. They are guns for hire to keep the troop levels down.
They dont have to follow the same rules and are making the Iraqis hate us.


i thought the already hated us and wanted us out....

rellay BW just runs around the country shooting up every town for no reason?...wow how many times have they done that?

[truthmatters]

http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=133711&ran=173114

here is a story about a blackwater guy killing an Iraqi officials gaurd.


The reports describe several shooting incidents that have not been previously reported. In one, Blackwater personnel shot a civilian bystander in the head. In another, State Department officials found that Blackwater sought to cover up a shooting that killed an apparently innocent bystander. In a third, Blackwater offered no assistance after one of its convoys caused a traffic accident that left an Iraqi vehicle in a ball of flames.

In still another case, a Blackwater motorcade collided with 18 vehicles during a single round trip. According to a Blackwater contractor who was on the mission, the tactical commander “openly admitted giving clear direction to the primary driver to conduct these acts of random negligence for no apparent reason.” The only apparent sanction resulting from the incident was the firing of two contractors.

Blackwater documents show that the company has fired 122 contractors under its Iraq security contracts, 28 of them for weapons-related incidents.

The documents also shed more light on an incident on Christmas Eve in which a drunken Blackwater contractor killed the Iraqi bodyguard of Iraqi Vice President Adil Abdul-Mahdi. The contractor was flown home within 36 hours and so far has faced no criminal charges.

[Gaffer]

They are killing innocent Iraqis in the process. This is what the entire investigation is about. They killed like nineteen people two weeks ago . Women and Childern died for no reason. How would that make you feel about foriegner in your country driving arround in big black SUVs shooting people first because they heard a noise?

To pretend this does not effect whats going on in Iraq is not realistic

You have no idea of what goes on in these operations. You only know what you read from your left wing moonbat bloggers. BW doesn't just arbitrarily shoot at people as they drive by, there is a reason for engagement. And they do not go out just looking to get into a fire fight. They go out on escort missions or they guard facilities and people. They are mostly former special forces personnel recruited from all over the world.

iran's qods force uses the black SUV's and dress like Americans and talk in English. They are not arabs so they would pass as American or European. They have done this in the past and will continue to use these tactics.

[truthmatters]

I just gave you proof from a congressional report and you call it moonbat.

See what I mean about no evidence is considered reliable?

[Monkeybone]

it is sad when innocent ppl die, but it is also kinda hard not to hit them when the ppl shooting at you dress like everyone else and hide directly behind the women and children. when gunfire is rainin down at ya you shoot at a muzzle flash, try not to get hit yourself, and protect your cargo. it sucks but that is what happens when you have cowards attacking you.

[truthmatters]

it is sad when innocent ppl die, but it is also kinda hard not to hit them when the ppl shooting at you dress like everyone else and hide directly behind the women and children. when gunfire is rainin down at ya you shoot at a muzzle flash, try not to get hit yourself, and protect your cargo. it sucks but that is what happens when you have cowards attacking you.


Im glad we agree on it being very sad the Innocent people die because of Balckwater tactics.This is why this occupation is not going to well. We are making the iraqi people hate us because they see that the people dont matter and are expendable.

[Monkeybone]

don't twist bitch. i said because the the terrorist attacking them are cowards that hide behind women and children.

[jimnyc]

Im glad we agree on it being very sad the Innocent people die because of Balckwater tactics.

You see, THIS is why you get a bad rep around here! You quote him and then put words in his mouth by implying he stated it was as a result of BW tactics, which he never said. You do this non-stop and it only hurts your credibility more and more.

[truthmatters]

These people died bacuse of Blackwater tactics.

Blackwater has different rules of engagement than our soldiers.

He said it was sad that innocent people die.

There is no lie in there.

[jimnyc]

How about addressing the fact that you said "m glad we agree on it being very sad the Innocent people die because of Balckwater tactics" when he NEVER said such a thing?

[Monkeybone]

These people died bacuse of Blackwater tactics.

Blackwater has different rules of engagement than our soldiers.

He said it was sad that innocent people die.

There is no lie in there.

the lie is in what you did by making my words say that it was BW. if that is what you read, then you need some reading comprehension. that only difference that i see with BW and our soldiers is that BW can do their job instead of having to ask a politican X# of miles away to shoot someone.

[manu1959]

Im glad we agree on it being very sad the Innocent people die because of Balckwater tactics.This is why this occupation is not going to well. we are making the iraqi people hate us because they see that the people dont matter and are expendable.

i think they already know this....under saddam people were feed into wood chippers feet first ...entire cites were gassed...and know they bomb their own markets and kill their fellow citizens....not sure it phases them....

[truthmatters]

it is sad when innocent ppl die, but it is also kinda hard not to hit them when the ppl shooting at you dress like everyone else and hide directly behind the women and children. when gunfire is rainin down at ya you shoot at a muzzle flash, try not to get hit yourself, and protect your cargo. it sucks but that is what happens when you have cowards attacking you.


He says its sad and then goes on to describe BW tactics.

There is nothing in what I said that is putting words in his mouth.

Blackwater has had differnt rules of engagement than than our troops.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/10/03/us_control_over_guards_in_iraq_urged/

[Monkeybone]

it is sad when innocent ppl die, but it is also kinda hard not to hit them when the ppl shooting at you dress like everyone else and hide directly behind the women and children. when gunfire is rainin down at ya you shoot at a muzzle flash, try not to get hit yourself, and protect your cargo. it sucks but that is what happens when you have cowards attacking you.

there ya go truth. that is what i said. read everything, not just what fits into your agenda/world view/whatever drugs you are on at the moment

i siad nothing about tactics, i said what might happen to them when shit goes down. but not how they operate.

[truthmatters]

there ya go truth. that is what i said. read everything, not just what fits into your agenda/world view/whatever drugs you are on at the moment

i siad nothing about tactics, i said what might happen to them when shit goes down. but not how they operate.

So you dont think its sad that innocents die due to the Balckwater tactics?

You do realise they have been opperating under differnet rules of engagemetn than our soldiers dont you?

[manu1959]

He says its sad and then goes on to describe BW tactics.

There is nothing in what I said that is putting words in his mouth.

Blackwater has had differnt rules of engagement than than our troops.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/10/03/us_control_over_guards_in_iraq_urged/

here is some truth for you....he describes the iraqi tactics:

Originally Posted by Monkeybone
the ppl shooting at you dress like everyone else and hide directly behind the women and children.

[truthmatters]

"you shoot at a muzzle flash, try not to get hit yourself"

Is what he said and that is a tactic.

Now lets talk about the other tactics which are the concern of this investigation which include firing first at women and childern because you think something is going to happen. How would you like that tactic used by private gaurds here in the US?

[Nukeman]

So you dont think its sad that innocents die due to the Balckwater tactics?

You do realise they have been opperating under differnet rules of engagemetn than our soldiers dont you?I think its sad that innocent people die due to the actions of the insurgents and terrorist that HIDE BEHIND woman and children.

Lets look at the real cause of this, if these lunatics weren't trying to kill everyone in a public office or everyone theY percieve as western than the "innocent" civilian would not be in any kind of cross fire now would they.

You always want to put the blame on the US and its contractors, heres some news for you. Place the f***ing blame on the islamolunatics over there that dont want peace or stability because they might lose the only hold they have on those people "TERROR"..

[manu1959]

"you shoot at a muzzle flash, try not to get hit yourself"

Is what he said and that is a tactic.

Now lets talk about the other tactics which are the concern of this investigation which include firing first at women and childern because you think something is going to happen. How would you like that tactic used by private gaurds here in the US?

that is everyones tactics.....

i don't hide behinde women and children and i don't shoot at security guards....so i really don't care what tactics rent a cops use....

when shot at is one not allowed to return fire?

[truthmatters]

[QUOTE=truthmatters;132768]Blackwater usually fired first in Iraq - lawmaker
Mon Oct 1, 2007 3:41pm EDT



WASHINGTON, Oct 1 (Reuters) - U.S. security contractor Blackwater has been involved in at least 195 shooting incidents in Iraq since 2005 and, in eight of 10 cases, their forces fired first, a leading U.S. lawmaker said on Monday.

State Department contractor Blackwater, under investigation for the shooting deaths of 11 Iraqis on Sept. 16, will answer questions about that incident and its performance in Iraq at a Congressional hearing on Tuesday.

Senior State Department officials will also be grilled by the House of Representatives Committee on Oversight and Government Reform examining whether the growing use of military contractors undermines U.S. efforts in Iraq.

Committee chair Rep. Henry Waxman, a vocal critic of the Iraq war, released details from Blackwater's own reports of multiple incidents involving Iraqi casualties. The memorandum also slammed the State Department's oversight of the company.

It listed 195 shooting incidents from the start of 2005 until Sept. 12 of this year, an average of 1.4 per week. Of those, there were 16 Iraqi casualties and 162 cases with property damage, the California Democrat said.

"In 32 of those incidents, Blackwater were returning fire after an attack while on 163 occasions (84 percent of the shooting incidents), Blackwater personnel were the first to fire," Waxman said.



Please lets deal with what was found to be the way they really seem to practice and not just your idea of what may have happened?

[Nukeman]

"you shoot at a muzzle flash, try not to get hit yourself"

Is what he said and that is a tactic.

Now lets talk about the other tactics which are the concern of this investigation which include firing first at women and childern because you think something is going to happen. How would you like that tactic used by private gaurds here in the US?
Naw they dont use guns here they just dont pay attention to the rules of the road and run over people with their cars, you know all those illegal aliens that are law abiding.

Lets not forget how many injuries/deaths are caused by drivers of diplomats with diplomatic immunity and cant be prosecuted in our courts. Yes this does happen..

[manu1959]

Lets look at the real cause of this, if these lunatics weren't trying to kill everyone in a public office or everyone theY percieve as western than the "innocent" civilian would not be in any kind of cross fire now would they.



this is worth repeating....

[truthmatters]

So you will continue to ignore the congressional report findings?

[Monkeybone]

So you dont think its sad that innocents die due to the Balckwater tactics?

You do realise they have been opperating under differnet rules of engagemetn than our soldiers dont you?

there ya go twisting words again....what is your problem? of course it is sad. you would have to be sick to not feel bad for then. but what do you want them (BW or our soldiers) to do? sit there and get shot at? real good battle plan there ya Re-Re.

i never said that they were/weren't. i even said that they are dif from our soldiers. maybe you should use your ability to 'think faster' than everyone else to actually read instead of replying with your head up your ass.

[Nukeman]

So you will continue to ignore the congressional report findings?Most in congress couldn't find their own ass with both hands tied behind their back. So no I really dont trust congressional reports they are always very "politicle" in nature and usualy slanted.....

Are you saying that if I come up with congressional hearings and reports that refute anything you say you will admit that your wrong?????

[truthmatters]

So that means you Are going to keep ignoring the congressional report on how they have bee opporating?

[Nukeman]

there ya go twisting words again....what is your problem? of course it is sad. you would have to be sick to not feel bad for then. but what do you want them (BW or our soldiers) to do? sit there and get shot at? real good battle plan there ya Re-Re.

i never said that they were/weren't. i even said that they are dif from our soldiers. maybe you should use your ability to 'think faster' than everyone else to actually read instead of replying with your head up your ass.

Will somebody rep Monkey for me I have to spread some more around first!!!

[Nukeman]

So that means you Are going to keep ignoring the congressional report on how they have bee opporating?

Please reread post #50 for that answer and a little question for you!

[Monkeybone]

that is part of the investigation, to find out what happened. and if you would have truly read that one link you sent me, BW punishes and fines and then fires their own guys if they break the rules. but they can't persecute them. they ain't the law.

[truthmatters]

But if it sadi what you wanted to hear you would agree quote it huh?


This is an example of what I am talking bout when people here refuse any evidence they dotn like and just dismiss it no matter what the source is just because they dont like what the information says.

Now if this study backed the picture you want to see of BW you would quote it yourself and I would give it weight and not just dismiss it.

[manu1959]

Will somebody rep Monkey for me I have to spread some more around first!!!

done.......

[truthmatters]

BTW the FBI is now going to investigate BW.

If they come back and say that BW did bad things will they become a bad source?

[manu1959]

So you will continue to ignore the congressional report findings?


you mean from the least trusted congress in the history of the world.....

remember this is the same congress that voted to go to war......

[manu1959]

BTW the FBI is now going to investigate BW.

If they come back and say that BW did bad things will they become a bad source?

this is the same FBI that could not prevent 911...are they to be trusted now....

[truthmatters]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21111402/

How about testimony of the actual BW workers?


Could you please them give me a list of sources you will trust if I provide them?

[Gaffer]

BTW the FBI is now going to investigate BW.

If they come back and say that BW did bad things will they become a bad source?

The FBI doesn't even admit when terror attacks take place here. They have a credibility problem for me as well.

[manu1959]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21111402/
How about testimony of the actual BW workers?
Could you please them give me a list of sources you will trust if I provide them?

you trust people that indiscriminately shoot into crowds of iraqi freedom fighters and their families.....

[truthmatters]

Can you give me a list of sources you will trust?

[manu1959]

Can you give me a list of sources you will trust?

i trust my own eyes.....i have lived in far to many countries to trust anything other than my own eyes....

[truthmatters]

i trust my own eyes.....i have lived in far to many countries to trust anything other than my own eyes....

So the only source that you trust is you?

So I would have to quote you and only you if I wanted to give proof in a debate which you would honor?

[Nukeman]

But if it sadi what you wanted to hear you would agree quote it huh?

This is an example of what I am talking bout when people here refuse any evidence they dotn like and just dismiss it no matter what the source is just because they dont like what the information says.

Now if this study backed the picture you want to see of BW you would quote it yourself and I would give it weight and not just dismiss it.

You are the last person to make this type of statement, every time you have been confronted with PROOF of anything that runs counter to your argument you state it isn't a valid site or its partisan or some other BS. So dont sit there and take the high road of "its only true if its agrees with you" line of crap. You do this in almost every thread you have participated in on this web site.....

[truthmatters]

You are the last person to make this type of statement, every time you have been confronted with PROOF of anything that runs counter to your argument you state it isn't a valid site or its partisan or some other BS. So dont sit there and take the high road of "its only true if its agrees with you" line of crap. You do this in almost every thread you have participated in on this web site.....



Please go get me proof of what you are saying?

Do you think I should have to accept a tyrate from Rush as fact?

[Monkeybone]

i would trust alomst any source once everything is done. not what they are being charged with (doesn't mean that they did it, hey OJ was charged with murder) and not some opinion by somone that calls for our own ppl to be charged with war crimes and the just shrugs and says 'that is their way' when the terrorists/insurgents basically break every rule over there.

[manu1959]

So the only source that you trust is you?

So I would have to quote you and only you if I wanted to give proof in a debate which you would honor?

yep i trust my own eyes....i wouldn't trust me as a source i have been know to lie....

[truthmatters]

So you are saying there is no point in aswer your posts?