BPI Passed

[Kathianne]

Maybe I missed a thread, wouldn't be the first time. I'd been working and checking my news feed on every break. I really wasn't certain what was going to happen, but did know there was no way BBB was passing.

Since it passed my thinking on what it portends going forward has rocked back and forth.

This morning and after work last night have been physically busy moving things around, cleaning, and basically getting organized and ready for holidays. Lots of time to think.

The following, yeah I know AP is RINO or something, which doesn't mean he can't be right or partially correct:
https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2021/11/06/did-the-13-republicans-who-voted-for-the-infrastructure-bill-help-or-hurt-democrats-n427461

Anyways if you take the time to read, I think it's worth discussing, for or disagree.

[Russ]

It sounds to me like Pelosi and the Dems were shocked by the Virginia election of Youngkin, but instead of taking it as a warning that many voters are fed up with Biden and his Print Money Faster bills, they are taking it more like 'Last Call' at the bar - they figure they better spend all our money now before they lose control of Congress next year.

[icansayit]

Manchin feels like ALL OF US SHOULD. The entire 2 bills will cost generations after all of us are gone...all of their Freedoms, Rights, and whatever liberties that used to exist before SOCIALISM turned the U.S.A. into a 3rd world Wild, Wild, West with no laws, and Totalitarian rule.

Just my opinion as I honestly worry about our son's, and our grandchildren after I am gone.

[Kathianne]

It sounds to me like Pelosi and the Dems were shocked by the Virginia election of Youngkin, but instead of taking it as a warning that many voters are fed up with Biden and his Print Money Faster bills, they are taking it more like 'Last Call' at the bar - they figure they better spend all our money now before they lose control of Congress next year.

I totally agree, they are tripling down.

As for the BBB though, I still have serious doubts they'll get it through. Lord, I hope they do not!

[SassyLady]

I heard the bill had a 3% federal and personal property tax portion in it.

Calculate that for your property. $500,000 house is $15,000 per year in extra tax. So, they didn't raise income tax on middle class .. just property tax.

[Gunny]

A couple of things I've noticed while the jury is still out on what I consider about this piece of trash passing:

Why does the Biden admin seem to always sign off on crap on weekends when attention to the news is minimal? Just like a bunch of crap undoubtedly sneaked into this junk we know nothing about but will pay for later. Roaches and rats working away in the night.

Since when did inevitability become a viable excuse for passing bad law? If that's the case, Republicans need to get to work on recovering the education fumble by the left and making DACA work as a Republican issue rather than a Dem one. Inevitability, right?

[Gunny]

https://www.oann.com/house-continues-to-debate-reconciliation-bill-in-hopes-to-pass-it-along-with-infrastructure-bill/


OAN Newsroom
UPDATED 12:25 PM PT – Saturday, November 6, 2021House lawmakers passed the bipartisan infrastructure bill. Late on Friday, the bipartisan infrastructure bill passed in a 229-to-206 vote.
A total of 13 Republicans crossed party lines to vote for the bill. However, six Democrats including Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (N.Y.) voted against the measure.
The bill allocates $1.2 trillion for roads, bridges, public transportation systems and broadband internet. It will also be funding the electric grid, water systems, airports, as well as electric vehicles.

The bill was originally crafted in the Senate and is now headed straight to Joe Biden’s desk. However, the reconciliation bill will likely stall in the upper chamber amid Democrat infighting and near total opposition from Republicans.
Republicans that voted for this better hope their gamble pays off.

[NightTrain]

I'm so pissed at Don Young. Alaska's Congressman voted for this oinker.

I've been voting for Young ever since I began voting, and he's been great... but this was appalling. He made a statement on his FB page addressing his vote, and the majority of Alaskans, of course, are pissed.

His rationale was that there was 'free money' there for the State, so he grabbed it. Nevermind that the 13 Republicans who voted for it bailed this pig out, because it was going to fail - as it should have - without GOP support.

This thing is so massive that I very seriously doubt that he even read it. Or anyone else, for that matter. Another case of Pelosi's infamous 'you have to vote for it to find out what's in it'.

But I did read that there's a sweet little $50k tax break for Journalists tucked away in this. Gosh, I wonder why democrats would want to reward the partisan hacks?


I told Young that I'll no longer be voting for him. He's as trustworthy as Murkowski.

There's another Republican, Begich, who is running to primary him. His brother is rabid liberal, so I have misgivings. I suspect he's hiding his true political leanings by branding himself as Republican.


Anyway.... on behalf of AK, guys, I apologize. I never would have guessed that Young would pull a stunt like this, and neither did my fellow Alaskans.

We'll fix things next year, along with booting Murkowski.

[Kathianne]

I admit to agreeing often with Gunny to recognizing how the left sticks together, they most often do. The squad though, well they are beyond what I consider left.

The right presently has a dilemma of its own. Are the next two/four years going to focus on pushing policies and winning back each branch or is the focus going to be on purging those not far right enough?

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/13-house-gop-votes-infrastructure-helped-conservatives-david-marcus

[Kathianne]

I admit to agreeing often with @Gunny (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=30) to recognizing how the left sticks together, they most often do. The squad though, well they are beyond what I consider left.

The right presently has a dilemma of its own. Are the next two/four years going to focus on pushing policies and winning back each branch or is the focus going to be on purging those not far right enough?

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/13-house-gop-votes-infrastructure-helped-conservatives-david-marcus

Related. Those on the right do not have to denounce Trump, to win. IMO, they shouldn't need to be forced to march in lockstep with decrees.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rick-scott-trump-endorsements-midterms-2022-republicans

[Kathianne]

Also related:

https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2021/11/07/video-suburban-moms-in-virginia-tell-cnn-why-they-flipped-from-biden-to-youngkin-n427604

[fj1200]

I heard the bill had a 3% federal and personal property tax portion in it.

Calculate that for your property. $500,000 house is $15,000 per year in extra tax. So, they didn't raise income tax on middle class .. just property tax.

I'm pretty sure the Federal government can't tax property. Here's a rundown of what's in there.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanponciano/2021/11/04/democrats-bill-comes-with-15-trillion-in-new-taxes-heres-how-it-breaks-down-and-who-would-be-most-affected/?sh=62510bde5f55

[Kathianne]

I'm pretty sure the Federal government can't tax property. Here's a rundown of what's in there.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanponciano/2021/11/04/democrats-bill-comes-with-15-trillion-in-new-taxes-heres-how-it-breaks-down-and-who-would-be-most-affected/?sh=62510bde5f55

Yep, that's my understanding also. Taxes collected by county or parish.

I doubt that even Forbes knows all that BBB would include as of todsy.

[Gunny]

I'm pretty sure the Federal government can't tax property. Here's a rundown of what's in there.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanponciano/2021/11/04/democrats-bill-comes-with-15-trillion-in-new-taxes-heres-how-it-breaks-down-and-who-would-be-most-affected/?sh=62510bde5f55And when the next Republican cuts all these taxes allegedly paying for all this crap it will be unpaid for crap and just more BS added to the deficit. At some point we become insolvent and owned by foreign interest. More than we already are.

[Kathianne]

Maybe I missed a thread, wouldn't be the first time. I'd been working and checking my news feed on every break. I really wasn't certain what was going to happen, but did know there was no way BBB was passing.

Since it passed my thinking on what it portends going forward has rocked back and forth.

This morning and after work last night have been physically busy moving things around, cleaning, and basically getting organized and ready for holidays. Lots of time to think.

The following, yeah I know AP is RINO or something, which doesn't mean he can't be right or partially correct:
https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2021/11/06/did-the-13-republicans-who-voted-for-the-infrastructure-bill-help-or-hurt-democrats-n427461

Anyways if you take the time to read, I think it's worth discussing, for or disagree.

Related, by someone who usually agrees with majority here:

https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2021/11/08/house-progressives-buyers-remorse-lets-face-it-we-got-stiffed-n427783

[Gunny]

I admit to agreeing often with @Gunny (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=30) to recognizing how the left sticks together, they most often do. The squad though, well they are beyond what I consider left.

The right presently has a dilemma of its own. Are the next two/four years going to focus on pushing policies and winning back each branch or is the focus going to be on purging those not far right enough?

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/13-house-gop-votes-infrastructure-helped-conservatives-david-marcusBased on the past couple of decades, I'm going with the purge rather than focusing on winning elections. I'm not even sure Republicans can think past the party in-fighting level.

I've ranted against it for years and it never changes. More of the same. The left is back on its heels and sucking major air and the right is too busy fighting itself to move in and get a KO there for the taking. Something a unified front would easily accomplish.

[Kathianne]

Based on the past couple of decades, I'm going with the purge rather than focusing on winning elections. I'm not even sure Republicans can think past the party in-fighting level.

I've ranted against it for years and it never changes. More of the same. The left is back on its heels and sucking major air and the right is too busy fighting itself to move in and get a KO there for the taking. Something a unified front would easily accomplish.

Sorry, we disagree on purge. Most of the country is not into bending over to assuage Trump's vendettas.

[Gunny]

Sorry, we disagree on purge. Most of the country is not into bending over to assuage Trump's vendettas.Trump's vendetta's? So what was it called before Trump? Cutting their own throats? Result is the same.

I wasn't even considering Trump when I responded. Response is to the situation. The same infighting among Republicans/conservatives that has gone on for decades. Trump didn't invent conservative vs NeoCon vs RINO under one banner. Neither did he invent every person not a Dem labeling themselves/being labeled "conservative".

That divide has to go at least long enough to win. Fight amongst yourselves later. Better yet, get your sh*t together and forego the fighting and get something done. Either way, you have to have the power to use it. Sitting on the sidelines dependent on Dem infighting for your breaks isn't exactly what I call "winning".

Don't get your hopes n dreams up too much about Trump. He still commands enough followers to make or break. I don't see him going anywhere quietly. He isn't in MY "Perfect World" scenario. He is however reality.

[icansayit]

Up until next November, and afterward. I AM HAPPILY WAITING for all of the Radical, Dems, Leftists, Progressives, Snowflakes, BLM, ANTIFA, NAACP, and the ENTIRE DEMOCRAT PARTY with the DNC to actually learn...on their own. HOW the UTOPIA they expected from BIDEN and HARRIS will eventually look like this America...https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/xPxbQBrGr2pEJ5AgMv9q6aQvo_UsYJeRQ7p5d6AFUl5Pa58JFh ecdY9b6WM-VV4YdOqQn04wVUy89mHhMMH1P3o3HKznO8wHimCegL3BrreWQl soefh0s3HdPN8MuiTL0hOB7l-eBUNj5am_S4CBJ-8
https://i.imgflip.com/2x4h19.jpg
https://www.peoplesworld.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/pjimage-47.jpghttps://w1nnersclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Great-Depression.jpghttps://cdn.britannica.com/25/187725-050-0272F112/men-line-food-Chicago-Great-Depression-Illinois.jpg

[Gunny]

Would fit better in the thread about "What you gonna do?" (wait, that's a song) Whatever it's titled. Meaning's the same. So's the answer. Just waiting.

[BoogyMan]

I wish I could trust Manchin but I don’t. He is just a big of a weasel as the rest of that bunch in DC and I am pretty sure any one of them would shank you for a quarter.


Manchin feels like ALL OF US SHOULD. The entire 2 bills will cost generations after all of us are gone...all of their Freedoms, Rights, and whatever liberties that used to exist before SOCIALISM turned the U.S.A. into a 3rd world Wild, Wild, West with no laws, and Totalitarian rule.

Just my opinion as I honestly worry about our son's, and our grandchildren after I am gone.

[Kathianne]

Trump's vendetta's? So what was it called before Trump? Cutting their own throats? Result is the same.

I wasn't even considering Trump when I responded. Response is to the situation. The same infighting among Republicans/conservatives that has gone on for decades. Trump didn't invent conservative vs NeoCon vs RINO under one banner. Neither did he invent every person not a Dem labeling themselves/being labeled "conservative".

That divide has to go at least long enough to win. Fight amongst yourselves later. Better yet, get your sh*t together and forego the fighting and get something done. Either way, you have to have the power to use it. Sitting on the sidelines dependent on Dem infighting for your breaks isn't exactly what I call "winning".

Don't get your hopes n dreams up too much about Trump. He still commands enough followers to make or break. I don't see him going anywhere quietly. He isn't in MY "Perfect World" scenario. He is however reality.

The idea of removing R members from committees is to punish them for doing what the far right demanded, voting no on BIB. Not being MAGA enough. To hell with representing their constitutes, they are there only for party. If not, they are RINOS and need to be primaried and purged. If this results in dems retaining control, so be it, as long as those party members will fight like Marjorie Taylor Green and ilk. Is that really the lockstep that will win eventually?

[Kathianne]

The idea of removing R members from committees is to punish them for doing what the far right demanded, voting no on BIB. Not being MAGA enough. To hell with representing their constitutes, they are there only for party. If not, they are RINOS and need to be primaried and purged. If this results in dems retaining control, so be it, as long as those party members will fight like Marjorie Taylor Green and ilk. Is that really the lockstep that will win eventually?

Related: https://www.thebulwark.com/the-trump-vs-mcconnell-war-is-upon-us/

If winning is the thing. . .

[Kathianne]

On point related:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-lessons-democrats-overreach-leadership-virginia-progressives-build-back-better-11636405373?mod=opinion_trending_now_opn_pos5


Hungry true believers tend to energize political parties, but their habit of putting purity above pragmatism leads to impatience with moderate colleagues. Eventually the young purists cannibalize the majorities they need to govern. As defeat looms, they announce dramatically that it’s their “last chance” to pass historic legislation. They argue that real conservatives or real progressives would accept nothing less.

Republicans have been where the Democrats are headed—with absolute power comes absolute overreach. In 2016, Republicans ran the table, winning control of the presidency, House and Senate. While they had control of Washington, many Republicans refused to accept victories they didn’t consider “conservative enough.” But total control of the federal government apparatus is rare. Republicans should have found a way to compromise on the speed and size, not the direction, of their reforms. Persistence and ideological consistency would have been rewarded over time with big, enduring changes moving the nation in a more conservative direction. Instead, Republicans bickered among themselves and went for big victories that either failed completely or provoked electoral backlashes.

...
Gunny if this is what you mean, we are in agreement.

[Gunny]

The idea of removing R members from committees is to punish them for doing what the far right demanded, voting no on BIB. Not being MAGA enough. To hell with representing their constitutes, they are there only for party. If not, they are RINOS and need to be primaried and purged. If this results in dems retaining control, so be it, as long as those party members will fight like Marjorie Taylor Green and ilk. Is that really the lockstep that will win eventually?



Related: https://www.thebulwark.com/the-trump-vs-mcconnell-war-is-upon-us/

If winning is the thing. . .


On point related:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-lessons-democrats-overreach-leadership-virginia-progressives-build-back-better-11636405373?mod=opinion_trending_now_opn_pos5


@Gunny (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=30) if this is what you mean, we are in agreement.

Not going to try and find it just to prove I said it, but I harped loudly and often in regard to your last response after the 2000 election and after the 2016 election. In both cases, the GOP had the Presidency and Congress and could have signed laws instead of EOs. I hate EOs. Temporary fix until next administration that will then no longer be the current administration's problem.

If they aren't spending their time trying to impress themselves and the public with their "bipartisanship" and willingness to compromise with the Dems, they're fighting each other.

A far cry from representing one's constituents; which, I find a shallow argument to being with (albeit a correct one) since most representation of constituents is coincidental. If Republican constituencies are that far apart from one another perhaps it is time for a divorce? As example, look what the progressives are doing to the Dems. Same thing.

Something that came to mind yesterday is the GOP needs a 10 seat over-fill in both houses of Congress just to offset RINO AND get something done.

While all this is going on within the GOP, the Dems first show of disunion has been the spending package because the bully progressives aren't getting their way and want to dictate to the majority of the party.

Going back a couple of paragraphs, why is it Republicans are so willing to roll over for and/or compromise with a political party that holds polar opposite beliefs but they can't compromise with each other long enough to win the elections? Maybe it's the Marine in me that sees it as blatantly obvious as sunrise that if you don't win you aren't controlling nor dictating anything to anyone. You're pinning your hopes on a Dem Senator from WV:rolleyes: Not sure how anyone else feels, but if I put myself in the position of depending on my enemy for my security it's time for a trip back to the drawing board and starting with tearing to pieces the old plan.

One step at a time. Win the election. Be prepared to accomplish as much as possible in the first 2 years before the historical, mid term turnover in Congress happens. Save the disagreement crap for later when you've got 2 or more years to fuss with each other over it.

Before any of that, we need a leader who can unite and is headed in the right direction. Not seeing one.

[Kathianne]

yesterday. BPI passing when it did may be good:

https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2021/11/10/is-manchin-about-to-tank-the-reconciliation-bill-over-inflation-n428309

We'll know more in coming days.

[Gunny]

yesterday. BPI passing when it did may be good:

https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2021/11/10/is-manchin-about-to-tank-the-reconciliation-bill-over-inflation-n428309

We'll know more in coming days.My initial post in this thread in reference to "their gamble" was that if nothing else, this DID accomplish divorcing the two bills. As I later noted, it appears that was not the motive the Republicans that voted to pass it, but I see it as the only positive.

It definitely diffused the progressives.

It irks me that the Nation, GOP, and anyone that doesn't want to live in progressive Hell hopes hinge on one Democrat centrist. I like this guy (Manchin) though. To this point. I reserve the right to revise if he caves :). To this point, call it what you want, he's standing his ground for what is best for the Nation, and I suspect mostly the people in his state, rather than supporting progressive stupidity.

[Kathianne]

My initial post in this thread in reference to "their gamble" was that if nothing else, this DID accomplish divorcing the two bills. As I later noted, it appears that was not the motive the Republicans that voted to pass it, but I see it as the only positive.

It definitely diffused the progressives.

It irks me that the Nation, GOP, and anyone that doesn't want to live in progressive Hell hopes hinge on one Democrat centrist. I like this guy (Manchin) though. To this point. I reserve the right to revise if he caves :). To this point, call it what you want, he's standing his ground for what is best for the Nation, and I suspect mostly the people in his state, rather than supporting progressive stupidity.

I agree that if he caves, he's a schmuck.

BIB was going to pass eventually, it already had in Senate. Prior to passage, the progressives had to scale back the BBB, at least for the present. Now that they are separated, there's hope for either failure or more scaling back.

True partisanship requires total lockstep. I'd rather see this kind of hedging or compromise, than the very real possibility that both these bills could have been rammed through without.

[Gunny]

I agree that if he caves, he's a schmuck.

BIB was going to pass eventually, it already had in Senate. Prior to passage, the progressives had to scale back the BBB, at least for the present. Now that they are separated, there's hope for either failure or more scaling back.

True partisanship requires total lockstep. I'd rather see this kind of hedging or compromise, than the very real possibility that both these bills could have been rammed through without.I didn't miss the point that I'm usually pissed at the Republicans for not showing solidarity while I'm all for Manchin pissing off the Dems :)

I can caveat that only with it depends on the situation. If the Republicans were trying to pass a multi-trillion dollar bill on their favorite fantasy I'd be against it. Unless it was defense/cyber-security. Even then I'd want a line-by-line expenditure report.

The Republicans/right have put themselves, and the Nation in this position. Bet not a single one of them sees it that way.

[Kathianne]

I didn't miss the point that I'm usually pissed at the Republicans for not showing solidarity while I'm all for Manchin pissing off the Dems :)

I can caveat that only with it depends on the situation. If the Republicans were trying to pass a multi-trillion dollar bill on their favorite fantasy I'd be against it. Unless it was defense/cyber-security. Even then I'd want a line-by-line expenditure report.

The Republicans/right have put themselves, and the Nation in this position. Bet not a single one of them sees it that way.

Manchin seems to recognize:

https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2021/11/11/report-yep-manchin-is-thinking-of-hitting-pause-on-reconciliation-bill-after-inflation-report-n428585

Would he have been able to have taken away the far left progressives leverage of the packaged bills without the crossovers?

[Gunny]

Manchin seems to recognize:

https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2021/11/11/report-yep-manchin-is-thinking-of-hitting-pause-on-reconciliation-bill-after-inflation-report-n428585

Would he have been able to have taken away the far left progressives leverage of the packaged bills without the crossovers?For which far-right, conspiracy theorist, lying rightwingers will be blamed. After the MSM and Squad get done crucifying Manchin, of course.

Just a thought: Manchin might want to consider retirement, or a party switch :)