Trump's call for Republicans not to vote in 2022 and 2024 is a Mistake

[Russ]

You may have heard that Trump has recently called for Republican voters to not vote in the 2022 or 2024 elections unless the GOP pushes the issue about election fraud in the 2020 election.

This is a huge mistake on Trump's part, in my opinion. The 2020 election is over. He needs to drop the past and worry more about the present and the future.

We desperately need in 2022 to take away the Dem majorities in at least one of the houses of Congress, if not both, before the Dems critically damage our democracy, our standing in the world, and the global economy. We may be majorly and irreparably screwed up as a nation before 2024 if the Dems have both houses of Congress past 2022.

Even aside from that, I think it is best if Trump stays away from running for President and focuses more on helping someone else run for President. Whoever it is will still automatically get attacked from the media, but the media won't be able to help itself from mostly attacking Trump, more that the person running. It might result is something actually resembling a democratic election, accidentally.

[Gunny]

Wonderful. Probably just enough loyal followers to split the GOP vote when the next 2 elections are pretty much theirs to lose. This proves a couple of things that have floated out there as baseless, leftwingnut accusations:

This IS about Trump, not what's best for the Nation

This IS divisive.

[Kathianne]

Wonderful. Probably just enough loyal followers to split the GOP vote when the next 2 elections are pretty much theirs to lose. This proves a couple of things that have floated out there as baseless, leftwingnut accusations:

This IS about Trump, not what's best for the Nation

This IS divisive.

That's not what his listeners would say, he's just fighting for them.

[Gunny]

That's not what his listeners would say, he's just fighting for them.No. Fighting for "me" means getting his ass in gear NOW for next election and start paying attention to politics instead of not getting his way like a toddler and crying over spilled milk.

[Gunny]

Had to run to the bus stop for Granddaughter #2 :) Seriously, what exactly is he trying to do/think is going to happen? Someone's going to come out and state, Oops, you're right. We're kicking Biden out and reinstalling you :rolleyes:

That would be a Godsend for Biden and do nothing for Trump. Might help the country if he could keep his mind on business.

The other thing to look at is this: IF he should win 2024, does he plan on spending 2024-2028 trying to prove he got screwed in 2020? Doesn't sound like much help for the country.

[Mika-El]

You may have heard that Trump has recently called for Republican voters to not vote in the 2022 or 2024 elections unless the GOP pushes the issue about election fraud in the 2020 election.

This is a huge mistake on Trump's part, in my opinion. The 2020 election is over. He needs to drop the past and worry more about the present and the future.

We desperately need in 2022 to take away the Dem majorities in at least one of the houses of Congress, if not both, before the Dems critically damage our democracy, our standing in the world, and the global economy. We may be majorly and irreparably screwed up as a nation before 2024 if the Dems have both housed of Congress past 2022.

Even aside from that, I think it is best if Trump stays away from running for President and focuses more on helping someone else run for President. Whoever it is will still automatically get attacked from the media, but the media won't be able to help itself from mostly attacking Trump, more that the person running. It might result is something actually resembling a democratic election, accidentally.

Until the gutless GOP stands up to Trump this insanity will continue. It is that simple. The GOP deserves to self destruct if it will not confront this madman. He never had any respect for any Republicans. This was and will always be about his own ego and self and his narcissistic personality disorder.

[Gunny]

Until the gutless GOP stands up to Trump this insanity will continue. It is that simple. The GOP deserves to self destruct if it will not confront this madman. He never had any respect for any Republicans. This was and will always be about his own ego and self and his narcissistic personality disorder.Don't stop there. The GOP won't be okay until it stands up to the left. The way I see it, the Democratic Party is the enemy of the US citizens. The GOP is the enemy of the GOP.

It's too bad the bureaucracy all but dooms any hope for a third party. I'd like to have one that has common sense and actually works for the benefit of the Nation and its citizens.

We'll see what happens with Trump. I'd like to say this little incident is an eye opener but I've been fooled on that one before. Sometimes obvious just isn't enough.

[icansayit]

I have a feeling Trump is just warning all of his followers..."IT'S NOT ABOUT ME!"

But rather...he is actually saying: "THIS IS ALL ABOUT YOU, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE."

"Depending on ME (Trump) to come to the rescue to SAVE AMERICA can't be done that easily."

As Trump has always warned. "The DEMS are strong...because THEY ALWAYS STICK TOGETHER."

He knows...the ELITES from both parties, like Obama, Hillary, Nancy, Bernie, Schumer and the FOUR SQUAD SOCIALIST IDIOTS...are actually stronger than all of the NEVER-TRUMPER...RINO'S like Graham, and the other McCain Wishy Washy Gang of Hypocrites.

The DEMS use FEAR....and now DONALD IS USING FEAR. America's Future Depends On Americans.

[Gunny]

I have a feeling Trump is just warning all of his followers..."IT'S NOT ABOUT ME!"

But rather...he is actually saying: "THIS IS ALL ABOUT YOU, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE."

"Depending on ME (Trump) to come to the rescue to SAVE AMERICA can't be done that easily."

As Trump has always warned. "The DEMS are strong...because THEY ALWAYS STICK TOGETHER."

He knows...the ELITES from both parties, like Obama, Hillary, Nancy, Bernie, Schumer and the FOUR SQUAD SOCIALIST IDIOTS...are actually stronger than all of the NEVER-TRUMPER...RINO'S like Graham, and the other McCain Wishy Washy Gang of Hypocrites.

The DEMS use FEAR....and now DONALD IS USING FEAR. America's Future Depends On Americans.I voted for Trump twice. I supported him while he was President. I even agree the system itself was rigged against him and one of the reasons he lost. Voter fraud could be a reason but so far there's been no "A-HA! GOTCHA" smoking gun to prove anything. NOTHING he does is going to reverse the results of the election.

What he IS doing NOW is driving a wedge right through the middle of the right by telling Republicans to not vote in 2022 and 2024 unless they're on his train. Is he missing that those Republicans/conservatives/independents that don't support him DIDN'T vote in 2020? See how THAT worked?

I'll tell you right now he can't win with just Trump supporters. But his telling his supporters not to vote means no one on the right can. That's NOT thinking about the country first.

I know the Dems game, as well as most anyone. I also know that a divided party can't beat it. Look who's President now. The Dems use fear. Is that worse than strong arming anyone that disagrees with you?

[Black Diamond]

I voted for Trump twice. I supported him while he was President. I even agree the system itself was rigged against him and one of the reasons he lost. Voter fraud could be a reason but so far there's been no "A-HA! GOTCHA" smoking gun to prove anything. NOTHING he does is going to reverse the results of the election.

What he IS doing NOW is driving a wedge right through the middle of the right by telling Republicans to not vote in 2022 and 2024 unless they're on his train. Is he missing that those Republicans/conservatives/independents that don't support him DIDN'T vote in 2020? See how THAT worked?

I'll tell you right now he can't win with just Trump supporters. But his telling his supporters not to vote means no one on the right can. That's NOT thinking about the country first.

I know the Dems game, as well as most anyone. I also know that a divided party can't beat it. Look who's President now. The Dems use fear. Is that worse than strong arming anyone that disagrees with you?

You're assuming his supporters need him to tell them to stay home. And I disagree that a stolen election is "spilled milk"

[jimnyc]

You may have heard that Trump has recently called for Republican voters to not vote in the 2022 or 2024 elections unless the GOP pushes the issue about election fraud in the 2020 election.

This is a huge mistake on Trump's part, in my opinion. The 2020 election is over. He needs to drop the past and worry more about the present and the future.

We desperately need in 2022 to take away the Dem majorities in at least one of the houses of Congress, if not both, before the Dems critically damage our democracy, our standing in the world, and the global economy. We may be majorly and irreparably screwed up as a nation before 2024 if the Dems have both housed of Congress past 2022.

Even aside from that, I think it is best if Trump stays away from running for President and focuses more on helping someone else run for President. Whoever it is will still automatically get attacked from the media, but the media won't be able to help itself from mostly attacking Trump, more that the person running. It might result is something actually resembling a democratic election, accidentally.

From day one they/he should have been working on the many issues related to our elections, towards helping mainly the folks in 2022... then onto 2024.

But to tell republican voters not to vote is ridiculous and asinine. The time to let go of the '20 election fraud stuff was a long time back. It's simply not changing.

[fj1200]

You're assuming his supporters need him to tell them to stay home. And I disagree that a stolen election is "spilled milk"

There was no stolen election. There was a petty man-child who couldn't let go.

[Gunny]

You're assuming his supporters need him to tell them to stay home. And I disagree that a stolen election is "spilled milk"Water under the bridge? Over and done? Half your platoon got killed. If you want to kill the other half, stay in place. Or MOVE FORWARD. Call it whatever you want. Reality in politics in this country, especially when the left is in control, is NOTHING is going to be done that is going to matter.

Much as I try not to state this, I TOLD YOU SO. Back in 2016-17 when I saw how the Dems/left were acting I stated "Do something about election accountability NOW or the Dems will do whatever they have to to steal the next election and there will be no reelection".

Looky what happened:rolleyes: By my reasoning -- just an old, retired Gunny who isn't getting paid a dime to figure out this in your face obvious crap to me -- NO ONE getting paid to know this shit can figure out something THIS simple?

Who is more to blame? The Dems for acting like Dems? Or the Republican't's who know they are going to act like Dems doing NOTHING proactive to stop it? I expect thieves to steal and liars to lie. At what point in time has the GOP ever accomplished anything REACTING to what was obviously coming? The left's MO -- and Obama was a master at it -- do what we want and make the right try to undo it.

Yet time after time it plays out the same.

People who consider supporting Trump, or any other individual, more important than who is going to represent the only viable party we're stuck with as possibly the next President of the United States need to reexamine their priorities. The Dems usually win the cult of personality battle. I wouldn't give a wooden nickel for Trump's. I must not be alone. Look who our current Loser in Chief is. Enough people preferred an empty skull to Trump that the former is sitting in the WH.

I may as well just write off the mid-terms and 2024 now and save myself the internal turmoil. Between some heavy-handed laws that aren't going to float and the cult of Trump, the right is going to lose the best chance to win the Presidency its had since Ronald Reagan.

[Gunny]

There was no stolen election. There was a petty man-child who couldn't let go.Disagree. You just don't want it to be true, but it is. For the millionth time I will make a simple point: You let me count my votes 5 days after yours are locked, sealed and done, I'll win every time too.

Have they audited any of the states that pulled THAT? No. That elephant in the room doesn't count :rolleyes:

Trump acting like Al Gore hasn't helped a thing.

[Kathianne]

Disagree. You just don't want it to be true, but it is. For the millionth time I will make a simple point: You let me count my votes 5 days after yours are locked, sealed and done, I'll win every time too.

Have they audited any of the states that pulled THAT? No. That elephant in the room doesn't count :rolleyes:

Trump acting like Al Gore hasn't helped a thing.

The best cure for the last election is to get in people that make sure the states implement changes. That won't happen if they throw away that chance.

[Gunny]

The best cure for the last election is to get in people that make sure the states implement changes. That won't happen if they throw away that chance.

Intentional or coincidental, but Biden's little pissing contest with Abbott and the TX Abortion Law have completely obscured the fact that Abbott signed into the law the tightening up of election security and accountability. The one Dems made so much noise about and ran off to DC over? Apparently the "right" to kill babies and wear masks is more important to the lefties:rolleyes:

This week? Redistricting :)

[Kathianne]

Intentional or coincidental, but Biden's little pissing contest with Abbott and the TX Abortion Law have completely obscured the fact that Abbott signed into the law the tightening up of election security and accountability. The one Dems made so much noise about and ran off to DC over? Apparently the "right" to kill babies and wear masks is more important to the lefties:rolleyes:

This week? Redistricting :)

That will continue unless the numbers change, which they won't if Trump holds sway.

[Abbey Marie]

Intentional or coincidental, but Biden's little pissing contest with Abbott and the TX Abortion Law have completely obscured the fact that Abbott signed into the law the tightening up of election security and accountability. The one Dems made so much noise about and ran off to DC over? Apparently the "right" to kill babies and wear masks is more important to the lefties:rolleyes:

This week? Redistricting :)

It has always been their defining issue. Disgusting as that is, it’s the truth.

As for Trump’s advice to ‘not-vote’, I am astounded. It doesn’t make sense, and it seems like perhaps the most counter-intuitive protest ever. What would it accomplish besides Dems dancing in the streets over the easiest Dem elections ever? Oh wait, perhaps the Communist party will be able to run and even elect some Congresspeople and maybe even a President then. There’s a great result.

[jimnyc]

Disagree. You just don't want it to be true, but it is. For the millionth time I will make a simple point: You let me count my votes 5 days after yours are locked, sealed and done, I'll win every time too.

Have they audited any of the states that pulled THAT? No. That elephant in the room doesn't count :rolleyes:

Trump acting like Al Gore hasn't helped a thing.

The way Trump and team reacted, verbally and outwardly, were off base most of the way.

But that's not to say that nothing illegal or wrong or whatever you want to call it pertaining to the votes, machines, security, audits, Democrat response.... I have little doubt that all kinds of things took place. I have zero doubt that many of these machines should not have been in use, too many things deleted. The refusals to at least properly do a handful of audits to give the American people faith. Instead, they fought against that every step of the way.

But, they didn't care about refusals and their own actions (dems) and at the same time, nothing amounting to a ton was given to us from Trump's side, except failed lawsuits for whatever reasons.

It was a shit show from the beginning and from both sides, and one that certainly didn't give us more faith in our elections, the opposite in fact. But short of evidence, here we are.

[MtnBiker]

So here is the statement from Trump;


Statement by Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States of America10/13/21



If we don’t solve the Presidential Election Fraud of 2020 (which we have thoroughly and conclusively documented), Republicans will not be voting in ‘22 or ‘24. It is the single most important thing for Republicans to do.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/news/news-dvacp8fbpv868

Is that a call for Republicans to not vote or a prediction of disenfranchised voters?

[Kathianne]

So here is the statement from Trump;



https://www.donaldjtrump.com/news/news-dvacp8fbpv868

Is that a call for Republicans to not vote or a prediction of disenfranchised voters?

Calling for true believers not to vote.

[Mr. P]

I think Trump writes like a NYC street thug. Poor sentence structure but YOU know what they mean because you speak the same lingo.

Or you can just noodle it out. Who in their right mind with two brain cells to rub together would ever think Trump would tell folks NOT TO vote?

Here is his statement, directly from the Trump website:

"If we don’t solve the Presidential Election Fraud of 2020 (which we have thoroughly and conclusively documented), Republicans will not be voting in ‘22 or ‘24. It is the single most important thing for Republicans to do."

I can see how some may interpret it as a call NOT to vote but that is not what I believe he was trying to say at all.

I think what he was attempting to say is: If the 2020 mess isn't conclusively resolved republicans will see no reason to vote due to the system still being corrupt, but voting IS the single most important thing for Republicans to do.

Just my two cents.

[Gunny]

I think Trump writes like a NYC street thug. Poor sentence structure but YOU know what they mean because you speak the same lingo.

Or you can just noodle it out. Who in their right mind with two brain cells to rub together would ever think Trump would tell folks NOT TO vote?

Here is his statement, directly from the Trump website:

"If we don’t solve the Presidential Election Fraud of 2020 (which we have thoroughly and conclusively documented), Republicans will not be voting in ‘22 or ‘24. It is the single most important thing for Republicans to do."

I can see how some may interpret it as a call NOT to vote but that is not what I believe he was trying to say at all.

I think what he was attempting to say is: If the 2020 mess isn't conclusively resolved republicans will see no reason to vote due to the system still being corrupt, but voting IS the single most important thing for Republicans to do.

Just my two cents.



While I can say I don't read him specifically telling Republicans to not vote, it appears for some reason they will be unable unless they solve his voter fraud issue before they do anything else.

His sentences and words.

[Gunny]

So here is the statement from Trump;



https://www.donaldjtrump.com/news/news-dvacp8fbpv868

Is that a call for Republicans to not vote or a prediction of disenfranchised voters?


Calling for true believers not to vote.My breakdown of English is in my previous post.

In context with events since the 2020 election, it's STILL about him and he's STILL trying to tell people what to do.

A far as voter fraud goes, any that exists as part of the system has been around since before 2020. If it was THAT important to Trump, he was in the position to fix it for 4 years.

I've been saying for 20 or so years the Federal government should be responsible for Federal elections for the Chief Executive of all 50, not just some states. The only reason I haven't jumped on the voter reform bandwagon currently is because I most certainly don't want the Dems, who are the ones currently calling for it, in charge of the candy store. They have resisted every real attempt at vote and voter accountability.

IF the Republican't's can stave off the unwashed hordes for 3 more years on the issue, AND Trump can get himself elected again, he'll have another chance to fix it.

So, the single most important issue Trump is facing is getting himself reelected and he might want to start by trying at least to mend some bridges he's burned instead of burning more.

[MtnBiker]

2020 experienced more pervasive mail in voting than any previous election, imho mail in voting is ripe for election fraud. Trump nor any other President should fix election integrity, that is a function of State Legislators.

[NightTrain]

So here is the statement from Trump;



https://www.donaldjtrump.com/news/news-dvacp8fbpv868

Is that a call for Republicans to not vote or a prediction of disenfranchised voters?



Thanks for researching it.

It sounded like bullshit to me, but I'm weary after 6 years now of a concerted effort twisting of the man's words and I just don't have any interest in researching & defending, for the millionth time, more bullshit.

[Kathianne]

I think Trump writes like a NYC street thug. Poor sentence structure but YOU know what they mean because you speak the same lingo.

Or you can just noodle it out. Who in their right mind with two brain cells to rub together would ever think Trump would tell folks NOT TO vote?

Here is his statement, directly from the Trump website:

"If we don’t solve the Presidential Election Fraud of 2020 (which we have thoroughly and conclusively documented), Republicans will not be voting in ‘22 or ‘24. It is the single most important thing for Republicans to do."

I can see how some may interpret it as a call NOT to vote but that is not what I believe he was trying to say at all.

I think what he was attempting to say is: If the 2020 mess isn't conclusively resolved republicans will see no reason to vote due to the system still being corrupt, but voting IS the single most important thing for Republicans to do.

Just my two cents.


How is it going to be solved? He already said proven it was stolen, umm no.

Heck, I don't really care, we'll all do what we do.

[Gunny]

2020 experienced more pervasive mail in voting than any previous election, imho mail in voting is ripe for election fraud. Trump nor any other President should fix election integrity, that is a function of State Legislators.I am aware of who is responsible for voting. I don't agree with it. I'm all for voting reform and am quite happy we got our loopholes tightened up here. I'm for 100 percent accountability.

Trump inferring that the right may as well not vote if they don't do his bidding, regardless how it is worded, is not okay. I realize being Donald Trump is a big deal to him, but it's not to me. The GOP should not and does not need to stop the World and fix his issue.

[Mr. P]

How is it going to be solved? He already said proven it was stolen, umm no.

Heck, I don't really care, we'll all do what we do.

I'd be good with forensic audits of every questionable state.

[NightTrain]

I am aware of who is responsible for voting. I don't agree with it. I'm all for voting reform and am quite happy we got our loopholes tightened up here. I'm for 100 percent accountability.

Trump inferring that the right may as well not vote if they don't do his bidding, regardless how it is worded, is not okay. I realize being Donald Trump is a big deal to him, but it's not to me. The GOP should not and does not need to stop the World and fix his issue.



While I certainly can't speak for Trump, I took it as him saying that IF things don't get fixed, our votes won't count - just like they didn't count last November.

[icansayit]

While I certainly can't speak for Trump, I took it as him saying that IF things don't get fixed, our votes won't count - just like they didn't count last November.

Even if you don't like, or hate Trump. WHY would anyone say such a thing like that unless you knew....Like many here have done. That people would TAKE AWAY whatever they wanted to hear.

Trump actually cares for this COUNTRY and the PEOPLE. But too many still think TRUMP will destroy the World, Kill Children, Lie to us, Start another War, Raise Taxes, and Take away our Health care.

Ooop's. Did I just say that? EVERYTHING I JUST SAID IN THE LAST SHORT PARAGRAPH...is what JOE BIDEN is doing, and has already done. SHAME ON ME!

[MtnBiker]

While I certainly can't speak for Trump, I took it as him saying that IF things don't get fixed, our votes won't count - just like they didn't count last November.

Yup, that is how I viewed it.

So, how is it fixed?

Have an election day, make it a holiday if needed.

If a person cannot vote on election day he or she requests an absentee ballot that is sent to them, no automatic mailed out ballots. An affidavit is included in the return ballot verifying ID.

Voter ID is required, if a person does not have an ID the state can provide one ahead of election day. The state provides EBT cards, housing assistance, childcare assistance, etc, the state could certainly provide verified ID's.

Votes are cast on paper ballots and the voter can have a receipt of the ballot.

Vote counting is monitored by camera live and recorded.

[fj1200]

Disagree. You just don't want it to be true, but it is. For the millionth time I will make a simple point: You let me count my votes 5 days after yours are locked, sealed and done, I'll win every time too.

Have they audited any of the states that pulled THAT? No. That elephant in the room doesn't count :rolleyes:

Trump acting like Al Gore hasn't helped a thing.

He not only lost he lost again by proxy in GA in January. Them's the facts. I can grant you that his campaign was outmaneuvered legally speaking but that speaks to his abilities to pull a legal team together to make factual arguments; not arguments that were literally laughed at by the courts.

[fj1200]

So here is the statement from Trump;



https://www.donaldjtrump.com/news/news-dvacp8fbpv868

Is that a call for Republicans to not vote or a prediction of disenfranchised voters?

Or a self-fulfilling prophecy that will enable his inner man-child.

[NightTrain]

Yup, that is how I viewed it.

So, how is it fixed?

Have an election day, make it a holiday if needed.

If a person cannot vote on election day he or she requests an absentee ballot that is sent to them, no automatic mailed out ballots. An affidavit is included in the return ballot verifying ID.

Voter ID is required, if a person does not have an ID the state can provide one ahead of election day. The state provides EBT cards, housing assistance, childcare assistance, etc, the state could certainly provide verified ID's.

Votes are cast on paper ballots and the voter can have a receipt of the ballot.

Vote counting is monitored by camera live and recorded.


I like it.

Further, every State needs to have a number of random precincts 100% audited after every election. When 'anomalies' are detected, a full statewide audit is triggered.

Anyone caught deleting data, obstructing the audit process, destroying any paper trail or ballots gets an automatic 5 years minimum in Club Fed.

[Kathianne]

He not only lost he lost again by proxy in GA in January. Them's the facts. I can grant you that his campaign was outmaneuvered legally speaking but that speaks to his abilities to pull a legal team together to make factual arguments; not arguments that were literally laughed at by the courts.
Pretty much my take. Seizing the covid opportunity, the dems created a bad election process without timely legal response by opposing party.

There were many calls for them to make challenges, instead they seemed to be convinced they'd win anyways or thought they could do so after. It didn't work. In fact, it led to 1/6, furthering the problem below.

Instead of using the unfairness to rally the troops to win the senate, so that they could work towards ensuring it would not be repeated, the former president used the two Senate elections to further erode the peoples declining faith in the system. It worked, both seats went to the new administration.

We are now at the same place today, poised for a landslide next November. Likewise our former President continues to encourage distrust of the system, setting expectations for his faithful to remain at home. Meanwhile he campaigns more forcefully against those in the party he chose to run with if they didn't support him, while strongly supporting his policies.

All I hope is that if his behaviors continue, (that's a good bet), that Biden's choices do also. Neither is good for the country.

[Abbey Marie]

Look, you would think Trump would have learned a lesson from the Capitol protests. When you are speaking about important subjects, you must be crystal clear. If he meant disenfranchised in this case, he should have said it. It’s not that tough. I think we here all have excellent reading comprehension skills, yet we disagree on what he meant.

[NightTrain]

Look, you would think Trump would have learned a lesson from the Capitol protests. When you are speaking about important subjects, you must be crystal clear. If he meant disenfranchised in this case, he should have said it. It’s not that tough. I think we here all have excellent reading comprehension skills, yet we disagree on what he meant.

Agree completely.

It's tough enough with msm actively looking to twist your words without giving them a leg up with an ambiguous statement.

My statements weren't directed at anyone here, I've been seeing article after article shouting about him sabotaging GOP election turnout when that's not what he said or intended - but yeah, it was bad on him by being careless with his words when he, more than anyone alive, knows full well what will happen if his many detractors in the media are handed an opportunity to drive a wedge.

Also, he knows more than anyone that every single vote is crucially important. He's all but declared that he's running, trying to depress turnout makes no sense at all, IMHO.

He's right that if elections aren't tightened up, our votes won't count. There is absolutely not a chance in hell that 81 million people voted for Biden. Or that a major party would universally fight tooth and nail fighting every attempt at an audit unless there were truckloads of skeletons in the closet.

Making everyone comfortable and confident in our elections should be priority #1 from all corners, and the only way to go about doing that is a detailed and transparent audit. I don't think much of anything has changed since last year, other than Texas, GA and Florida, and those states making sure their elections are squared away isn't going to change the overall result next time.

Hell, here in AK where we have a whopping 3 electoral votes, there were shady things shaping up until the necessary 270 for Biden was met. Nothing has changed here, and I suspect that's the case in the majority of States.

[Mika-El]

Don't stop there. The GOP won't be okay until it stands up to the left. The way I see it, the Democratic Party is the enemy of the US citizens. The GOP is the enemy of the GOP.

It's too bad the bureaucracy all but dooms any hope for a third party. I'd like to have one that has common sense and actually works for the benefit of the Nation and its citizens.

We'll see what happens with Trump. I'd like to say this little incident is an eye opener but I've been fooled on that one before. Sometimes obvious just isn't enough.


I get you detest certain Democratic policies and politicians. I do get that..but are they your enemy? Of course it's between you and your fellow Americans. I say as a neutral Canadian (well that is b.s. I am pro Mitt Romney, Colin Powell, Eisenhower type Republicans) your fellow Americans are not your enemy. Yah they disagree with you as to the degree of intervention government should take in your economy and social services and that congress woman who looks like Bugs Bunny yah she can get quite nauseating. I get that. I respect that. That Harry-Meaghen trendy crap makes me want to vomit. Yeo.

Its just this calling your fellow Americans you disagree with the enemy, fir me next door, I would say, the only people that likes that kind of talk are sob's like Putin or that sob in China who want you guys at each other's throats so they can get away with crap. I am obviously simplifying it and you know I respect your opinions if not agree with 85% of them, but hell man, divided America is not good for anyone but maybe Chinese and Russians and when I say Chinese obviously not people in Hong Kong or Taiwan. Call me selfish...which I am, but I want your country united and the world leader. What is the other choice? Putin leading the world? The UN? My Prime Minister (ahahahah).:salute:

Try have Justin Trudeau as your leader for a week. Makes Biden look very reasonable.

[Abbey Marie]

Agree completely.

It's tough enough with msm actively looking to twist your words without giving them a leg up with an ambiguous statement.

My statements weren't directed at anyone here, I've been seeing article after article shouting about him sabotaging GOP election turnout when that's not what he said or intended - but yeah, it was bad on him by being careless with his words when he, more than anyone alive, knows full well what will happen if his many detractors in the media are handed an opportunity to drive a wedge.

Also, he knows more than anyone that every single vote is crucially important. He's all but declared that he's running, trying to depress turnout makes no sense at all, IMHO.

He's right that if elections aren't tightened up, our votes won't count. There is absolutely not a chance in hell that 81 million people voted for Biden. Or that a major party would universally fight tooth and nail fighting every attempt at an audit unless there were truckloads of skeletons in the closet.

Making everyone comfortable and confident in our elections should be priority #1 from all corners, and the only way to go about doing that is a detailed and transparent audit. I don't think much of anything has changed since last year, other than Texas, GA and Florida, and those states making sure their elections are squared away isn't going to change the overall result next time.

Hell, here in AK where we have a whopping 3 electoral votes, there were shady things shaping up until the necessary 270 for Biden was met. Nothing has changed here, and I suspect that's the case in the majority of States.

I totally agree about priority #1. It is crucial that we regain confidence.

Just to add, I too have no doubt there was rampant fraud in that election. There was voting machine fraud in Philly several elections ago. (The machines arrived at the polling places ​with Democrat votes already registered. There were also Districts where the Dem candidate got 100% of the votes). Why would Dems stop doing these things if they keep getting away with it? And all these new voting rules just added to the possibilities. Investigations are called for and necessary.
The question we need to ask, is, does it help for Trump to keep bringing it up? Will it change anything? Maybe so, but I don’t think so. One thing it definitely does do, for me at least, is make us doubt the entire system, and ultimately, we may not bother to care or vote anymore.

[icansayit]

Just take a step back, and look at what ALL OF THIS is doing to our entire nation.

I am old enough to remember a bald guy from RUSSIA (USSR) who sat in the U.N. and Pounded his shoe on the table.
http://icansayit.com/images/krushevsocialism.jpg


http://icansayit.com/images/krushtalk.jpg
And who also said...http://icansayit.com/images/kruschev (2).jpg

And long before that...
http://icansayit.com/images/lincoln22.jpg

So...what are we all doing by calling fellow Americans Our Enemy?

They wanted us to argue, get angry, hate each other like the Democrats and RINO's are pushing for
And they appear to be winning.

[NightTrain]

The question we need to ask, is, does it help for Trump to keep bringing it up? Will it change anything? Maybe so, but I don’t think so. One thing it definitely does do, for me at least, is make us doubt the entire system, and ultimately, we may not bother to care or vote anymore.


I'm becoming more and more cynical. We have a pretty damned important election next year to neuter this abomination of a president, and I haven't seen any large movement to fix what happened in November. It's going to take more than a few States to properly run their elections.

Everything is not okay, despite what libs all smugly tell us. There should be more people shouting from the rooftops until real results are achieved.

If this bullshit happens again in a year, there will be an uprising.

[Abbey Marie]

I'm becoming more and more cynical. We have a pretty damned important election next year to neuter this abomination of a president, and I haven't seen any large movement to fix what happened in November. It's going to take more than a few States to properly run their elections.

Everything is not okay, despite what libs all smugly tell us. There should be more people shouting from the rooftops until real results are achieved.

If this bullshit happens again in a year, there will be an uprising.

When positive Rick gets cynical, you know things are going down the drain.

[Kathianne]

When positive Rick gets cynical, you know things are going down the drain.

Asked my roommate about his comments. "He's right, I'm not voting until it's admitted the 2020 election was stolen."

SassyLady has met her, pretty certain she'll back me up on my friend being a true Trump believer. We don't talk politics for any long period. :laugh:

[Russ]

Some really good points everyone is making.

To me, I would have some confidence in the election as long as we get rid of three things:
1) Mail-in ballots that are mailed out without being officially and individually request first
2) Drop-off ballot boxes
3) Ballot harvesting

The thing about these three items is that they don't adequately authenticate each ballot, and allow one person to potentially handle a slew of ballots for other non-authenticated voters. They are the only ways I see for Dems to do the kind of massive voter fraud that would change an election.

There's one other thing that links these three items - they are voting changes pushed by Democrats. In my opinion, Democrats push these ideas because they want to commit voter fraud, not because they want to help people vote.

[Gunny]

I'm becoming more and more cynical. We have a pretty damned important election next year to neuter this abomination of a president, and I haven't seen any large movement to fix what happened in November. It's going to take more than a few States to properly run their elections.

Everything is not okay, despite what libs all smugly tell us. There should be more people shouting from the rooftops until real results are achieved.

If this bullshit happens again in a year, there will be an uprising.


He not only lost he lost again by proxy in GA in January. Them's the facts. I can grant you that his campaign was outmaneuvered legally speaking but that speaks to his abilities to pull a legal team together to make factual arguments; not arguments that were literally laughed at by the courts.
fj1200 you and I appear to agree on one part of the issue; while, it appears you don't want to address the other issue because it's inconvenient to your Trump narrative. The voter fraud is there. It's endemic to a bureaucracy/deep state/shado government -- call it what you will. That monster exists from the janitor at your local elementary school to the 6 janitors that run one buffer in the US Capitol. Government employees aka leeches living cradle to grave on the government (tax dollars). They don't care about you. They don't care about anyone but themselves. Until someone rocks their boat.

I didn't read this crap in a book, newspaper nor magazine. I had the misfortune of working right in the middle of it for 4-5 years. Most people who get shore duty run and hide when the monitor shows up to send you back to the Fleet. I had to contain myself from hugging him and dancing for joy all the way down the hall.

As has been pointed out, there's a problem and its not being addressed. The Dems made a more concerted effort than usual to cheat last election not just because of Trump, but also because COVID and lockdown presented the opportunity for all the things mentioned previously in this thread. That happened, Trump or no. It has needed to be fixed long before Trump.

You can authenticate all the votes you want. There's no smoking gun. There isn't going to be. You keep trying to justify your argument with that point and it's baloney.

When you get to the part about Trump's behavior throughout all this, we appear to be in agreement. Anything good for anyone besides Trump that is a result of all this crap would be merely coincidental. Straight up, he's acted and is acting like a spoiled brat who didn't get his way, IMO. Let's be real here. What is Trump threatening to do to the right, implied or directly states, the progressives and 1 independent aren't doing to the Dems? "Do shit my way or I'm splitting the party screwing your vote".

I'm not okay with that. It does not however negate the voter fraud, nor the left's attempts to obstruct anyone from fixing it. Gotta have proof of a COVID vaccine, but not to vote. Ridiculous.

[Gunny]

I get you detest certain Democratic policies and politicians. I do get that..but are they your enemy? Of course it's between you and your fellow Americans. I say as a neutral Canadian (well that is b.s. I am pro Mitt Romney, Colin Powell, Eisenhower type Republicans) your fellow Americans are not your enemy. Yah they disagree with you as to the degree of intervention government should take in your economy and social services and that congress woman who looks like Bugs Bunny yah she can get quite nauseating. I get that. I respect that. That Harry-Meaghen trendy crap makes me want to vomit. Yeo.

Its just this calling your fellow Americans you disagree with the enemy, fir me next door, I would say, the only people that likes that kind of talk are sob's like Putin or that sob in China who want you guys at each other's throats so they can get away with crap. I am obviously simplifying it and you know I respect your opinions if not agree with 85% of them, but hell man, divided America is not good for anyone but maybe Chinese and Russians and when I say Chinese obviously not people in Hong Kong or Taiwan. Call me selfish...which I am, but I want your country united and the world leader. What is the other choice? Putin leading the world? The UN? My Prime Minister (ahahahah).:salute:

Try have Justin Trudeau as your leader for a week. Makes Biden look very reasonable.Recall once you told me context is key. In the context of my comment, I was addressing who is whose worst problem. The Democratic Party IS the enemy of the US Constitution. That makes them MY enemy. The GOP is so busy trying to appease political correctness, not make waves (or be noticed) they throw each other under the bus routinely. The Dem's just need to accuse and the GOP will offer up a sacrificial lamb.

You haven't been along for the ride. Left to my own devices and all things being equal, I'm a live and let live moderate. I love common sense. We used to have some. When they start attacking the very things that set us apart and make us "freer" (relative), THAT is a threat and I'm not sure what else to call it. There are a lot of people, on our left, who don't belong here and don't deserve the rights and freedom a lot of people have bled and died for. Putin and Ping Pong can have them :)

Comparatively, Biden is as bad as anyone you mention.

[fj1200]

@fj1200 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=728) you and I appear to agree on one part of the issue; while, it appears you don't want to address the other issue because it's inconvenient to your Trump narrative. The voter fraud is there. It's endemic to a bureaucracy/deep state/shado government -- call it what you will. ...

I don't recall saying that there isn't voter fraud. I'm sure that there is some but it didn't move the election results. If it did move the election results then trump's legal team did an awful job of identifying it both leading up to the election and after. Giulianni, Lin Wood, Sidney Powell??? Please; they were the face and they are a disgrace.

Add on to the election reform bills passed in TX, GA, etc. that would make election fraud more difficult and trump is still railing about GA elected officials who don't toe his line? The man-child will never be happy.

[Gunny]

I don't recall saying that there isn't voter fraud. I'm sure that there is some but it didn't move the election results. If it did move the election results then trump's legal team did an awful job of identifying it both leading up to the election and after. Giulianni, Lin Wood, Sidney Powell??? Please; they were the face and they are a disgrace.

Add on to the election reform bills passed in TX, GA, etc. that would make election fraud more difficult and trump is still railing about GA elected officials who don't toe his line? The man-child will never be happy.

You keep taking it back to Trump. Fair enough. I'm addressing BOTH issues.

I don't think Trump is wrong just because he's Trump. I think he's wrong because of how he is going about it. I think he's wrong thinking he's going to expose something the system has had 250 years to learn how to hide.

What he HAS exposed, IMO, is himself, and not in a good light.

Two or three states tightening up on voter fraud isn't going to cut it. Especially when the States *I* would go after aren't any of them. I'd start with the states that got extensions then miraculously came up with the right amount of votes they needed to put Biden over. That's just pure BS.

[fj1200]

You keep taking it back to Trump. Fair enough. I'm addressing BOTH issues.

I don't think Trump is wrong just because he's Trump. I think he's wrong because of how he is going about it. I think he's wrong thinking he's going to expose something the system has had 250 years to learn how to hide.

What he HAS exposed, IMO, is himself, and not in a good light.

Two or three states tightening up on voter fraud isn't going to cut it. Especially when the States *I* would go after aren't any of them. I'd start with the states that got extensions then miraculously came up with the right amount of votes they needed to put Biden over. That's just pure BS.

I'm not sure where we disagree other than you might think that trump won a fair count. I don't. I can grant you that there's a level of fraud but you are exactly right when you say he exposed himself; that's exactly why he lost. He lost because of who he is. Bringing it back to the OP it seems he's going to make the Republicans lose next year because of who he is.

I guess he's hoping his self-fulfilled prophecy will prove him right. :rolleyes:

[Mika-El]

Just take a step back, and look at what ALL OF THIS is doing to our entire nation.

I am old enough to remember a bald guy from RUSSIA (USSR) who sat in the U.N. and Pounded his shoe on the table.
http://icansayit.com/images/krushevsocialism.jpg


http://icansayit.com/images/krushtalk.jpg
And who also said...http://icansayit.com/images/kruschev (2).jpg

And long before that...
http://icansayit.com/images/lincoln22.jpg

So...what are we all doing by calling fellow Americans Our Enemy?

They wanted us to argue, get angry, hate each other like the Democrats and RINO's are pushing for
And they appear to be winning.


:clap:exactly

[Mika-El]

There is zero proof of a fraud. For anyone to repeat what Trump has said is irresponsible. This man claimed the first election would be rigged until he won then he stayed silent when he won. Next, in the latest bullshit claim of fraud, he stayed silent in every station where he won but only complained about irregularities in stations where he lost even though using his reasoning his own election stations where he won must have been part of the system of fraud if you actually read through what he claimed.

There is zero proof of fraud. Absolutely zero. To believe there is fraud means the Republicans at the state level rigged the election as well as the Democrats. It means thousands upon thousands of decent hard working Americans who volunteered their time at the polls were part of a vast conspiracy. What bull shit. It is absolutely reprehensible for any Trump supporter to repeat this bullshit when they have no proof.

It was bad enough when Trump threatened not to follow the election results the first time, now this second time and you Trump cultists just follow along like sheep because he said so with zero proof? Where is your damn proof. Put up or shut up for God's sake. Put it on the table. Go on. Present it. Not a damn shred of evidence to this day and yet some of you Trumpets dare repeat it. Such b.s. Excuse me but you feed a pathetic, defective man who lost because Americans exercised their democratic rights. Its over. You want to have a tantrum go ahead. You want to refuse to vote in local elections for senators and house of reps, please do us all a favour destroy the gop. Follow this mentally ill loser. Drink his koolaid.:crying22::crying33:blowup:

[NightTrain]

There is zero proof of a fraud. For anyone to repeat what Trump has said is irresponsible. This man claimed the first election would be rigged until he won then he stayed silent when he won. Next, in the latest bullshit claim of fraud, he stayed silent in every station where he won but only complained about irregularities in stations where he lost even though using his reasoning his own election stations where he won must have been part of the system of fraud if you actually read through what he claimed.

There is zero proof of fraud. Absolutely zero. To believe there is fraud means the Republicans at the state level rigged the election as well as the Democrats. It means thousands upon thousands of decent hard working Americans who volunteered their time at the polls were part of a vast conspiracy. What bull shit. It is absolutely reprehensible for any Trump supporter to repeat this bullshit when they have no proof.

It was bad enough when Trump threatened not to follow the election results the first time, now this second time and you Trump cultists just follow along like sheep because he said so with zero proof? Where is your damn proof. Put up or shut up for God's sake. Put it on the table. Go on. Present it. Not a damn shred of evidence to this day and yet some of you Trumpets dare repeat it. Such b.s. Excuse me but you feed a pathetic, defective man who lost because Americans exercised their democratic rights. Its over. You want to have a tantrum go ahead. You want to refuse to vote in local elections for senators and house of reps, please do us all a favour destroy the gop. Follow this mentally ill loser. Drink his koolaid.:crying22::crying33:blowup:


My, aren't you the snarky Canadian today. Pro-Tip : Canadians are supposed to be unfailingly polite. I'm docking you a socialist credit point for today.

Further, shouldn't you be more concerned with Canada's headlong rush to communism? And the gestapo tactics used by your RCMP to jail religious leaders for their failure to think along approved government lines?

In the meantime, read up on Arizona's audit and especially take a gander at how much Biden won the State versus how much illegal votes were counted despite laws.

And then take a close look at how democrats fought them in court every step of the way in the audit, even going so far as to delete data the day before handing over the servers - the very same servers that a Judge had to order them to hand over.

If you think Arizona was legit last November, you've got more than a couple of bolts loose. And this was just one State, with an incomplete audit in ONE county.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?74221-Arizona-audit-result-confirms-that-Trump-lost&highlight=arizona+vote

[Gunny]

There is zero proof of a fraud. For anyone to repeat what Trump has said is irresponsible. This man claimed the first election would be rigged until he won then he stayed silent when he won. Next, in the latest bullshit claim of fraud, he stayed silent in every station where he won but only complained about irregularities in stations where he lost even though using his reasoning his own election stations where he won must have been part of the system of fraud if you actually read through what he claimed.

There is zero proof of fraud. Absolutely zero. To believe there is fraud means the Republicans at the state level rigged the election as well as the Democrats. It means thousands upon thousands of decent hard working Americans who volunteered their time at the polls were part of a vast conspiracy. What bull shit. It is absolutely reprehensible for any Trump supporter to repeat this bullshit when they have no proof.

It was bad enough when Trump threatened not to follow the election results the first time, now this second time and you Trump cultists just follow along like sheep because he said so with zero proof? Where is your damn proof. Put up or shut up for God's sake. Put it on the table. Go on. Present it. Not a damn shred of evidence to this day and yet some of you Trumpets dare repeat it. Such b.s. Excuse me but you feed a pathetic, defective man who lost because Americans exercised their democratic rights. Its over. You want to have a tantrum go ahead. You want to refuse to vote in local elections for senators and house of reps, please do us all a favour destroy the gop. Follow this mentally ill loser. Drink his koolaid.:crying22::crying33:blowup:Spoken like a true leftist. Demanding proof when of course, there isn't going to be any.

Interesting you should mention 2016. Trump was not supposed to win. The MSM in collusion with left/Dems pushed him as "the Republican's guy", just as they did McCain and Romney, knowing all three were divisive and didn't have a chance. 2016 backfired. Wasn't about Trump. It was about how the left felt about Hillary Clinton. They didn't plan on that.

I can't "prove" the sun is shining, but it most certainly is. Here, anyway :) You can't just blanket dismiss the obvious because there's no smoking gun.

To be clear, I am not defending Trump or his allegations. I AM defending that voter fraud exists within the system, and in some instances the Dems DID twist the rules as best they could to allow maximum people to vote, legally or not.

The left has also obstructed and fought every single proposal/law that in any way tightened voter/vote accountability. Regardless any other "theory" there's but a single reason for that: to cheat.

[NightTrain]

I don't recall saying that there isn't voter fraud. I'm sure that there is some but it didn't move the election results. If it did move the election results then trump's legal team did an awful job of identifying it both leading up to the election and after. Giulianni, Lin Wood, Sidney Powell??? Please; they were the face and they are a disgrace.

Do you honestly believe that 81 million voted for this stumbling fool? Remember the rallies with 6 citizens attending and twice as many reporters while Trump had thousands? We all watched it with our own eyes - there was no enthusiasm for Brandon whatsoever. Yeah, there were many that voted for him just because he wasn't Trump, but 81 million? Pffft.

No one can prove anything, but this election was stolen by millions of mailed ballots harvested and filled out for Biden and there is still a coordinated effort to block every audit by the DNC.

https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-harrisburg-pennsylvania-general-elections-elections-508549941b12f558f41fca64a96ccf20



Remember the literal semi truck load of ballots that the driver reported he delivered from NY across state lines? Or the Hummer full of fake ballots driven from VA to PA?

https://www.gastongazette.com/story/opinion/columns/2021/01/27/opinion-election-fraud-and-biden-not-legit/4280773001/

https://www.kctv5.com/report-armed-men-arrested-in-philadelphia-were-trying-to-deliver-fake-ballots/article_c86ce532-9e4f-5144-808a-770e24195914.html

Don't you think it's very weird that there's been nothing reported since? Radio Silence! Nothing to see here, move along.

I totally agree that the legal team completely blew it and should be summarily disbarred and deported for their disgraceful handling of the rampant fraud. That aspect makes no sense at all and it almost seems like Trump took their word for it that "We're going to blow this wide open for the world to see" and then did nothing other than completely inept last-minute filings that appeared to be written by a Special Needs freshman during lunch.


Add on to the election reform bills passed in TX, GA, etc. that would make election fraud more difficult and trump is still railing about GA elected officials who don't toe his line? The man-child will never be happy.

I totally get that you hate all things Trump, and you think November was completely legit. But your normal logic circuits are clouded by your loathing for the man instead of looking at all the stories that suddenly dead-end with no resolution either way of the claims. No one has anything more to report.

Don't you think that screams coverup?

[Russ]

Do you honestly believe that 81 million voted for this stumbling fool? Remember the rallies with 6 citizens attending and twice as many reporters while Trump had thousands? We all watched it with our own eyes - there was no enthusiasm for Brandon whatsoever. Yeah, there were many that voted for him just because he wasn't Trump, but 81 million? Pffft.

No one can prove anything, but this election was stolen by millions of mailed ballots harvested and filled out for Biden and there is still a coordinated effort to block every audit by the DNC.

https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-harrisburg-pennsylvania-general-elections-elections-508549941b12f558f41fca64a96ccf20



Remember the literal semi truck load of ballots that the driver reported he delivered from NY across state lines? Or the Hummer full of fake ballots driven from VA to PA?

https://www.gastongazette.com/story/opinion/columns/2021/01/27/opinion-election-fraud-and-biden-not-legit/4280773001/

https://www.kctv5.com/report-armed-men-arrested-in-philadelphia-were-trying-to-deliver-fake-ballots/article_c86ce532-9e4f-5144-808a-770e24195914.html

Don't you think it's very weird that there's been nothing reported since? Radio Silence! Nothing to see here, move along.

I totally agree that the legal team completely blew it and should be summarily disbarred and deported for their disgraceful handling of the rampant fraud. That aspect makes no sense at all and it almost seems like Trump took their word for it that "We're going to blow this wide open for the world to see" and then did nothing other than completely inept last-minute filings that appeared to be written by a Special Needs freshman during lunch.



I totally get that you hate all things Trump, and you think November was completely legit. But your normal logic circuits are clouded by your loathing for the man instead of looking at all the stories that suddenly dead-end with no resolution either way of the claims. No one has anything more to report.

Don't you think that screams coverup?

Agreed. Can we prove there was election fraud? No. Do we (or I) think there was election fraud? Probably, at least to some extent.

There were too many changes to election laws in 2020 because of the pandemic, that all made the security of this election very lax. Trump's team went off on a wild goose chase talking about Dominion voting machines.

If there was voter fraud, the new lax voting laws would have made it much easier to go low tech:
1) Get party minions to get their hands on as many mail-in ballots as possible. Take them out of people's mailboxes, steal them before they get mailed out. Get the ones that get returned because the person moved/died/bad address. Fill them all out for Biden and mail them in.
2) Send ballot harvester minions out in the states that allow them. Harvesters knock on doors of older, gullible voters and convince them they can help them vote if they just hand them their ballot. Needless to say, the harvester fills in "Biden" for the gullible voter and drops a batch of them off at the polling place. In cases where the voter insisted on writing down "Trump", the harvester 'forgets' to to drop that one off.
3) Get other minions to set aside one of the blank mail-in voting forms and make hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands of copies. Create a list of state residents that are unlikely to vote because they haven't voted for a long time. Fill out all the blank voting forms with the resident names as the voter, and with "Biden" as the vote on every single one. For the few names you use where the voter actually tries to vote, the officials and the media will likely shrug it off.
4) Focus this mail-in and ballot harvesting fraud in Democratic areas like large cities. These areas tend to have a lot of Dem-likely voters that never actually vote. A surge in Dem mail-in votes in these areas is easily explained by "historically high voter participation".

Who would ever find this kind of voter fraud? It would be concentrated in Dem districts, so the Dem officials are mostly in control of the polling places and would have their finger on the scale of voting security and any recounts. Mainstream media like NBC, CBS, ABC, NYT, CNN, WaPo, etc doesn't want to hear or report about voter fraud except to immediately say there isn't any. That leaves FoxNews, NYPost, and a few other right-leaning outlets, who just get shouted down by the mainstream media and blocked by social media like Facebook and Twitter for spreading "disinformation".

This kind of voter fraud could only be discovered by looking for statistical anomalies in the voting results - a statistically unlikely surge in mail-in votes for Biden by first-time voters, dead or moved voters, or voters who haven't voted for a long time. I haven't heard of anyone looking at this.

[Gunny]

Agreed. Can we prove there was election fraud? No. Do we (or I) think there was election fraud? Probably, at least to some extent.

There were too many changes to election laws in 2020 because of the pandemic, that all made the security of this election very lax. Trump's team went off on a wild goose chase talking about Dominion voting machines.

If there was voter fraud, the new lax voting laws would have made it much easier to go low tech:
1) Get party minions to get their hands on as many mail-in ballots as possible. Take them out of people's mailboxes, steal them before they get mailed out. Get the ones that get returned because the person moved/died/bad address. Fill them all out for Biden and mail them in.
2) Send ballot harvester minions out in the states that allow them. Harvesters knock on doors of older, gullible voters and convince them they can help them vote if they just hand them their ballot. Needless to say, the harvester fills in "Biden" for the gullible voter and drops a batch of them off at the polling place. In cases where the voter insisted on writing down "Trump", the harvester 'forgets' to to drop that one off.
3) Get other minions to set aside one of the blank mail-in voting forms and make hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands of copies. Create a list of state residents that are unlikely to vote because they haven't voted for a long time. Fill out all the blank voting forms with the resident names as the voter, and with "Biden" as the vote on every single one. For the few names you use where the voter actually tries to vote, the officials and the media will likely shrug it off.
4) Focus this mail-in and ballot harvesting fraud in Democratic areas like large cities. These areas tend to have a lot of Dem-likely voters that never actually vote. A surge in Dem mail-in votes in these areas is easily explained by "historically high voter participation".

Who would ever find this kind of voter fraud? It would be concentrated in Dem districts, so the Dem officials are mostly in control of the polling places and would have their finger on the scale of voting security and any recounts. Mainstream media like NBC, CBS, ABC, NYT, CNN, WaPo, etc doesn't want to hear or report about voter fraud except to immediately say there isn't any. That leaves FoxNews, NYPost, and a few other right-leaning outlets, who just get shouted down by the mainstream media and blocked by social media like Facebook and Twitter for spreading "disinformation".

This kind of voter fraud could only be discovered by looking for statistical anomalies in the voting results - a statistically unlikely surge in mail-in votes for Biden by first-time voters, dead or moved voters, or voters who haven't voted for a long time. I haven't heard of anyone looking at this.Let's not overlook the fact YOU thought of this too:slap:

I have no problem with auditing all 50 states. That would work for me. I see no problem if there is nothing to hide, right?

But Trump has to be out of and away from it. Not about him. It's about election integrity. Let the chips fall where they lay. As long as it is about Donald Trump, it's about Donald Trump. The actual issue is left unresolved because of people choosing sides about him.

IMO, it would also be to Trump's benefit to stay out of it. He's done nothing but harm his reputation and the process itself by interjecting himself.

[NightTrain]

Let's not overlook the fact YOU thought of this too:slap:

I have no problem with auditing all 50 states. That would work for me. I see no problem if there is nothing to hide, right?

But Trump has to be out of and away from it. Not about him. It's about election integrity. Let the chips fall where they lay. As long as it is about Donald Trump, it's about Donald Trump. The actual issue is left unresolved because of people choosing sides about him.

IMO, it would also be to Trump's benefit to stay out of it. He's done nothing but harm his reputation and the process itself by interjecting himself.


But, see, that's just it. No one else is demanding election integrity. We have 3 or 4 States that took action and tightened things up, and I heartily approve of those efforts.

I would love nothing more than for Trump to sit down and let those people in charge of such things do their duty - but we've got a very important election coming up fast, and nothing of substance has changed. No one else is raising hell about it.

So if it takes Trump to continue calling attention to it, so be it. No one else is trying to fix things. McConnell effectively killed the Federal voting fraud act that the dems tried to ram through, thank God. But these are States issues, not the Fed.

Not one democrat led State has done a damn thing. That's to be expected. Where's all the GOP led States? A handful of States fixing things isn't going to prevent what happened last November.

And my own state hasn't done anything, either. It's crazy that so many of us, indeed the majority of Americans feel that fraud was rampant last election. And the fact that nothing's changed should have many motivated politicians across America trying to fix it, but I don't see anything happening.

Trump shouldn't have to raise hell about it, but no one else is.

[Kathianne]

Let's not overlook the fact YOU thought of this too:slap:

I have no problem with auditing all 50 states. That would work for me. I see no problem if there is nothing to hide, right?

But Trump has to be out of and away from it. Not about him. It's about election integrity. Let the chips fall where they lay. As long as it is about Donald Trump, it's about Donald Trump. The actual issue is left unresolved because of people choosing sides about him.

IMO, it would also be to Trump's benefit to stay out of it. He's done nothing but harm his reputation and the process itself by interjecting himself.
He's caused me to overlook the policies that led me to holding my nose and to vote for him in 2020. Not again.

As for expending more money on a past election, the gop controls the majority of governorships; many of one or both houses in states. It's where voting rules are made. Win in 2022, concentrate on messaging. Start looking at policies that can work, not the loudest.

[Russ]

Let's not overlook the fact YOU thought of this too:slap:

I have no problem with auditing all 50 states. That would work for me. I see no problem if there is nothing to hide, right?

But Trump has to be out of and away from it. Not about him. It's about election integrity. Let the chips fall where they lay. As long as it is about Donald Trump, it's about Donald Trump. The actual issue is left unresolved because of people choosing sides about him.

IMO, it would also be to Trump's benefit to stay out of it. He's done nothing but harm his reputation and the process itself by interjecting himself.

It sounds like my post is accumulating some "Gunny-Snark", especially considering the emoji.:rolleyes:

I think Trump's policies worked out very well, but I'm not posting this with the idea of overturning the 2020 election or getting Trump elected in 2024. I'm posting it because I think that Dems intentionally want voter fraud, that they quite possibly committed voter fraud, and I'm worried that if the pandemic voting rules like mail-in voting are kept even after the pandemic, then we will have large-scale Dem-leaning voter fraud forever more. I will lose all confidence in our elections.

My preference is actually that Trump not run in 2024. It would be better to see Ron DeSantis or Nikki Haley as the candidate.

My main objective, if I'm allowed only one, is to eliminate mail-in voting. We have many questionable voting rule that started in 2020, but it is the single biggest voter-fraud vulnerability existing.

[fj1200]

Do you honestly believe that 81 million voted for this stumbling fool? Remember the rallies with 6 citizens attending and twice as many reporters while Trump had thousands? We all watched it with our own eyes - there was no enthusiasm for Brandon whatsoever. Yeah, there were many that voted for him just because he wasn't Trump, but 81 million? Pffft.

...

Don't you think that screams coverup?

B. Or it just screams that there's nothing there.

A. He lost and his actions since then do nothing to advance the cause of Republicans winning this time around. That more people voted for the (D)oddering fool over the (R)ambling buffoon really isn't surprising to me given how he acted over the time of his being POTUS and especially the last year. It's astounding to me that he did as well as he did given how bad he handled everything that was 2020. IF whatever you say is true then people showing up to vote along with better, or actual, election lawyers will blow the whole thing wide open for Republicans next year and 2024. His actions are completely counterproductive to that end.

And you're wrong; do I hate all things trump? No otherwise I wouldn't have voted for him. But I also don't just jump on this trump train like everything he touches is gold. It's not and he has zero ability to understand how things that people do actually advanced the country rather than his rambling tweets. People in Congress, leadership, his veep, etc. He's a petty man-child and anyone who has said the same thing about BO but won't say it about trump is being disingenuous. And even if I do "hate all things trump" I don't look through rose colored glasses either.

As Erick Erickson said yesterday trump's legal team last year suuuuuuucked. That's undoubtedly true and speaks to trump and his vaunted abilities in hiring good people. :rolleyes:

[Kathianne]

It sounds like my post is accumulating some "Gunny-Snark", especially considering the emoji.:rolleyes:

I think Trump's policies worked out very well, but I'm not posting this with the idea of overturning the 2020 election or getting Trump elected in 2024. I'm posting it because I think that Dems intentionally want voter fraud, that they quite possibly committed voter fraud, and I'm worried that if the pandemic voting rules like mail-in voting are kept even after the pandemic, then we will have large-scale Dem-leaning voter fraud forever more. I will lose all confidence in our elections.

My preference is actually that Trump not run in 2024. It would be better to see Ron DeSantis or Nikki Haley as the candidate.

My main objective, if I'm allowed only one, is to eliminate mail-in voting. We have many questionable voting rule that started in 2020, but it is the single biggest voter-fraud vulnerability existing.

I think there's quite the problem with voting machines, certainly several potential problems. I've written many times the changes I'd like to see. The problems with 2020 though, which I do not deny were from state edicts and rule changes.

[NightTrain]

B. Or it just screams that there's nothing there.

A. He lost and his actions since then do nothing to advance the cause of Republicans winning this time around. That more people voted for the (D)oddering fool over the (R)ambling buffoon really isn't surprising to me given how he acted over the time of his being POTUS and especially the last year. It's astounding to me that he did as well as he did given how bad he handled everything that was 2020. IF whatever you say is true then people showing up to vote along with better, or actual, election lawyers will blow the whole thing wide open for Republicans next year and 2024. His actions are completely counterproductive to that end.

And you're wrong; do I hate all things trump? No otherwise I wouldn't have voted for him. But I also don't just jump on this trump train like everything he touches is gold. It's not and he has zero ability to understand how things that people do actually advanced the country rather than his rambling tweets. People in Congress, leadership, his veep, etc. He's a petty man-child and anyone who has said the same thing about BO but won't say it about trump is being disingenuous. And even if I do "hate all things trump" I don't look through rose colored glasses either.

As Erick Erickson said yesterday trump's legal team last year suuuuuuucked. That's undoubtedly true and speaks to trump and his vaunted abilities in hiring good people. :rolleyes:


I guess the biggest difference between you and me is that I simply don't care about the other stuff.

I want results, and we got it in spades with Trump. I can't think of a single president that got more accomplished despite the most concerted effort ever to obstruct everything he did.

He's a workaholic. No one put in more hours than he did. He put up points on the board more than any other president I can think of.

I don't know how people can be so hung up on inconsequential stuff like his tweets. It literally meant nothing. Who cares if he tweaked liberal noses with the tweets? He'd fire off a tweet in the morning and the media would go absolutely apeshit all day long. He was sitting in the WH laughing his ass off.

Remember Foghorn Leghorn? Yeah, he was the rooster and the dog was represented by the libs. And they fell for it daily. Still, that meant nothing. His results were what mattered.

[Gunny]

It sounds like my post is accumulating some "Gunny-Snark", especially considering the emoji.:rolleyes:

I think Trump's policies worked out very well, but I'm not posting this with the idea of overturning the 2020 election or getting Trump elected in 2024. I'm posting it because I think that Dems intentionally want voter fraud, that they quite possibly committed voter fraud, and I'm worried that if the pandemic voting rules like mail-in voting are kept even after the pandemic, then we will have large-scale Dem-leaning voter fraud forever more. I will lose all confidence in our elections.

My preference is actually that Trump not run in 2024. It would be better to see Ron DeSantis or Nikki Haley as the candidate.

My main objective, if I'm allowed only one, is to eliminate mail-in voting. We have many questionable voting rule that started in 2020, but it is the single biggest voter-fraud vulnerability existing.Just being a smartass. I tend to do that :halo9:

[Gunny]

B. Or it just screams that there's nothing there.

A. He lost and his actions since then do nothing to advance the cause of Republicans winning this time around. That more people voted for the (D)oddering fool over the (R)ambling buffoon really isn't surprising to me given how he acted over the time of his being POTUS and especially the last year. It's astounding to me that he did as well as he did given how bad he handled everything that was 2020. IF whatever you say is true then people showing up to vote along with better, or actual, election lawyers will blow the whole thing wide open for Republicans next year and 2024. His actions are completely counterproductive to that end.

And you're wrong; do I hate all things trump? No otherwise I wouldn't have voted for him. But I also don't just jump on this trump train like everything he touches is gold. It's not and he has zero ability to understand how things that people do actually advanced the country rather than his rambling tweets. People in Congress, leadership, his veep, etc. He's a petty man-child and anyone who has said the same thing about BO but won't say it about trump is being disingenuous. And even if I do "hate all things trump" I don't look through rose colored glasses either.

As Erick Erickson said yesterday trump's legal team last year suuuuuuucked. That's undoubtedly true and speaks to trump and his vaunted abilities in hiring good people. :rolleyes:I've never seen you allow your dislike for one person skew your opinion to the point you have. Bad form.

[Gunny]

I guess the biggest difference between you and me is that I simply don't care about the other stuff.

I want results, and we got it in spades with Trump. I can't think of a single president that got more accomplished despite the most concerted effort ever to obstruct everything he did.

He's a workaholic. No one put in more hours than he did. He put up points on the board more than any other president I can think of.

I don't know how people can be so hung up on inconsequential stuff like his tweets. It literally meant nothing. Who cares if he tweaked liberal noses with the tweets? He'd fire off a tweet in the morning and the media would go absolutely apeshit all day long. He was sitting in the WH laughing his ass off.

Remember Foghorn Leghorn? Yeah, he was the rooster and the dog was represented by the libs. And they fell for it daily. Still, that meant nothing. His results were what mattered.Good point. He DID have good results, mostly, where he was allowed. I've always given him that. His tweets and petty pissing contests with individuals were not just annoying distractions, as the representative MY vote and support, it was embarrassing.

They aren't going away and neither are the Dems/lefties/MSM/Big Tech. We're going to need a qualified mechanic after the current administration, and one that can go for two terms, not a lame duck repeat of stalling him out for 4 years. That's all they have to do and they know they can because they did it last time. Then there's the faction that just hates him because he's Trump. Nothing gets past his name. call those people what you will, they are there and comprise a good portion of the GOP.

Add to that his behavior since the election has been less than professional, and definitely not Presidential.

I'm not sure what good he can do is worth the baggage.

I definitely agree with you on wanting results. All no results from the right means is the Dems pick up right where they left off driving us off the cliff when they get back in office. I want someone that's going to UNDO some Dem crap just as fast as they undid anything positive Trump did.

[Kathianne]

Good point. He DID have good results, mostly, where he was allowed. I've always given him that. His tweets and petty pissing contests with individuals were not just annoying distractions, as the representative MY vote and support, it was embarrassing.

They aren't going away and neither are the Dems/lefties/MSM/Big Tech. We're going to need a qualified mechanic after the current administration, and one that can go for two terms, not a lame duck repeat of stalling him out for 4 years. That's all they have to do and they know they can because they did it last time. Then there's the faction that just hates him because he's Trump. Nothing gets past his name. call those people what you will, they are there and comprise a good portion of the GOP.

Add to that his behavior since the election has been less than professional, and definitely not Presidential.

I'm not sure what good he can do is worth the baggage.

I definitely agree with you on wanting results. All no results from the right means is the Dems pick up right where they left off driving us off the cliff when they get back in office. I want someone that's going to UNDO some Dem crap just as fast as they undid anything positive Trump did.

The "undoing" is part and parcel of all executive orders. The other stuff mattered because it caused him to lose. All can say what they want but there was net pick ups everywhere else, states and federal offices

[fj1200]

I guess the biggest difference between you and me is that I simply don't care about the other stuff.

I want results, and we got it in spades with Trump. I can't think of a single president that got more accomplished despite the most concerted effort ever to obstruct everything he did.

He's a workaholic. No one put in more hours than he did. He put up points on the board more than any other president I can think of.

I don't know how people can be so hung up on inconsequential stuff like his tweets. It literally meant nothing. Who cares if he tweaked liberal noses with the tweets? He'd fire off a tweet in the morning and the media would go absolutely apeshit all day long. He was sitting in the WH laughing his ass off.

Remember Foghorn Leghorn? Yeah, he was the rooster and the dog was represented by the libs. And they fell for it daily. Still, that meant nothing. His results were what mattered.

That's all fine and dandy until you're no longer POTUS because you acted the buffoon. And the buffoon can't even acknowledge that he wouldn't have gotten the majority of that done without the likes of McConnell in the Senate. 2/3 of his SCOTUS picks are due to McConnell for example. And thank goodness the Republicans controlled Congress for the first two years. That's not the definition of obstruction.

I'm in Georgia. We have two Dem Senators because of him and I'd like not to have to say that for the four years after 2022.

[fj1200]

I've never seen you allow your dislike for one person skew your opinion to the point you have. Bad form.

My opinion isn't skewed because of my dislike for trump. My opinion and like or dislike is based on his actions both good and bad. I'm one of the only few here who can honestly say that.

[icansayit]

Usually, from my experience. Those who must always use the name calling...LIKE BUFFOON are probably expending their last defenses as the very same BUFFOON they happen to be. Using the name calling gives them an easy out to actually use intelligent words and eventually becomes the constant use of FOUR letter words...primarily the "F" word to hide their obvious Buffoonery.
And...in doing so. Brag about telling the Truth...their truth.

[Kathianne]

Usually, from my experience. Those who must always use the name calling...LIKE BUFFOON are probably expending their last defenses as the very same BUFFOON they happen to be. Using the name calling gives them an easy out to actually use intelligent words and eventually becomes the constant use of FOUR letter words...primarily the "F" word to hide their obvious Buffoonery.
And...in doing so. Brag about telling the Truth...their truth.

In a general setting, with words/names being called to each other, I might agree with your observations. Not in this case though.

Trump is a public figure, members are not. What Trump did after the election was act so petty, so conspiracy minded, he personally, imo, caused the gop loss of the Senate. Buffoon is mild.

The name calling, the attribution of motivations of members here during first election; during the administration whether they made positive or negative observations were widely bandied and thanked by most. Only when those negative comments were aimed personal characteristics imagined by the poster were mild rebukes made.

My personal opinion of Trump is that he had some good, perhaps some brilliant ideas that he implemented as executive orders, simply because he couldn't get them implemented in law, due to BOTH his personal characteristics and the overwhelming prejudice of the opposition. He mostly refused or opposed input from those attempting to help with fixing some public perception, but he couldn't/wouldn't take it, perhaps taking it as an admission of wrong. I would call it, 'not playing well with others.'

[NightTrain]

GA got two dems elected for the exact same reason that he lost the election : rampant voter fraud.

Did you guys think the dems were happy with stopping at rigging the presidential election, or do you suppose they had done the math and figured they might as well take the Senate, too?

81 million. Let that sink in.

[fj1200]

Yeah OK. :rolleyes:

[fj1200]

Usually, from my experience. Those who must always use the name calling...LIKE BUFFOON are probably expending their last defenses as the very same BUFFOON they happen to be. Using the name calling gives them an easy out to actually use intelligent words and eventually becomes the constant use of FOUR letter words...primarily the "F" word to hide their obvious Buffoonery.
And...in doing so. Brag about telling the Truth...their truth.

I'm sorry you're offended. Would you also like me to not refer to biden as a doddering fool as well? Or if you have any specific items you'd like me to discuss related to the topic at hand I'd be happy to do so without using the "b" word or the "f" word.


My personal opinion of Trump is that he had some good, perhaps some brilliant ideas...

I generally limit the depth of his understanding as taking a position of BO and doing the exactly opposite. Which is generally good but limited.


... : rampant voter fraud.

Exanding on my previous comment. That is something that will never be proven even if true and if one is constantly fighting the last war you'll lose sight of the future.

[Kathianne]

GA got two dems elected for the exact same reason that he lost the election : rampant voter fraud.

Did you guys think the dems were happy with stopping at rigging the presidential election, or do you suppose they had done the math and figured they might as well take the Senate, too?

81 million. Let that sink in.

I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm just expressing my own thoughts. I was writing here for weeks b4 GA election that Trump and moreso his minions were working for loss in GA. Why? To punish the governor and secretary of state. Why? They wouldn't admit their state had rigged elections. He certainly bullied and tried to further bully, even now promising to primary and calling all sorts of names.

In this way I think like Gunny, this should be about winning the numbers to stop Biden and the other socialists asap.

There's still a logic problem for me about the last election, save GA, after the fact, gop won more state and fed offices than expected, by a lot.

[icansayit]

I'm sorry you're offended. Would you also like me to not refer to biden as a doddering fool as well? Or if you have any specific items you'd like me to discuss related to the topic at hand I'd be happy to do so without using the "b" word or the "f" word.



I generally limit the depth of his understanding as taking a position of BO and doing the exactly opposite. Which is generally good but limited.



Exanding on my previous comment. That is something that will never be proven even if true and if one is constantly fighting the last war you'll lose sight of the future.

I offered, and voiced my opinion. Matter of fact. I still stand by everything I said. If you wish to diminish that... fine with me. And I meant everything I said as well. Not changing a thing just to appease or make friends. This is a FORUM, and I say what I want.

[MtnBiker]

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: All across the country, Democrats are trying to make it easier to vote, not make it harder to vote. And push back on Republicans who are trying to systemically prevent ordinary citizens from making their voices heard. Just this past week, some of you probably saw every Democrat in the Senate supported a bill that would protect the right to vote and ban partisan gerrymandering and reduce the influence of dark money in our politics.

Every Democrat voted for it. Every Republican voted against it. Which, by the way, this is a little bit of an aside, but you have to ask yourself, why is it Republicans don't want you to vote? What is it that they're so afraid of? You know, I would assume, Terry, if they think they've got better ideas why don't they just go make the case? Tell us your ideas. Tell us why you think they're going to be better.



https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2021/10/24/obama_why_is_it_republicans_dont_want_you_to_vote_ if_they_think_they_have_better_ideas.html

“Saw every Democrat in the Senate support a bill to protect the right to vote”

“why is it Republicans don’t want you to vote?”

See how the argument is framed? If you don’t agree their version of casting a vote then you are taking rights away and don’t want you to vote. Wrong!

Every legal resident over 18 without a felony has the right to vote. No one is advocating for the right of voting to be taking away. Voting is a privilege and a responsibility. I believe the act of voting should have some burden. If it takes an investment of time and effort to vote then hopefully a voter also takes the time on how they vote.

[fj1200]

See how the argument is framed? If you don’t agree their version of casting a vote then you are taking rights away and don’t want you to vote. Wrong!

So? They're allowed to say dumb things and be wrong. All it has to do is fit in a tweet these days.

[Kathianne]

Yeah, I've seen things like, 'anyone stupid enough to vote for dems, should be shot.' Umm, I don't think that was meant literally.

[Gunny]

Donald Trump cost the American people, the Republican party and himself the State the of Georgia. His behavior at that time was a defining moment for me and when benefit if doubt and support began to wane. Right in the middle of a runoff for 2 Senate seats the right and the country desperately needed, as is playing out to the proposed tune of $5t, he had to make it about HIM. Not the People. Not the State. Not the Senate. Him.

I don't doubt every derelict and wino the Dems could muster voted. I don't care who does or doesn't like it, a lot of those votes were probably beyond shady, but enough to pass for Government work. But it wasn't shady voting that galvanized the Dems. Nor the GA republicans that said f- this after watching Trump's behavior. He just couldn't wait to carry on AFTER the run off. He was more important. Anyone that cares to look can go back to the time during the runoff when I stated the same thing. He needed to stay way from Georgia and quit attention whoring until after the run off.

WE are going to pay for it. No matter how far down they trim this budget, we're still going to go a couple T at least further in debt, mostly on green fairy tale BS none of us want.

Trump's behavior has made him a Dem wet dream for 2024. I doubt he has any more support on the right than his faithful loyalists. He's not going to pull any centrist/moderate/independent votes. It's not because of any of us. HE exposed himself.

So has the GOP. They'd rather lose a golden opportunity than actually stand up and stop the bleeding NOW. The best we can hope for now is that a turnip can indeed beat whoever the dems throw out there in 24.

[SassyLady]

I believe there is a movement to bring ballot integrity to our election system but once again main stream media will not give it any attention. Mark Finchem.


ANNOUNCING THE BALLOT INTEGRITY PROJECT

Ballot integrity, a critical part of the election process, relies on fraud countermeasures to keep the fakes out of the system. Election integrity – more broadly – relies on full-spectrum transparency. We can have full-spectrum transparency by making every ballot image a public record, available to everyone, all the time. Putting sunshine on something is a great disinfectant, and there is no reason not to do this.

The U.S. Treasury relies on currency-grade fraud countermeasures. Meaning they have UV light-reactive bills, from the dollar bill, to the five, to the ten, even to the hundred. You’ll notice stripes, fluorescence, all manner of countermeasures. And after all, aren’t our ballots just as valuable as our money?

https://votefinchem.com/announcing-the-ballot-integrity-project/

He's working with a company to come up with a watermark ballot.

[Mika-El]

My, aren't you the snarky Canadian today. Pro-Tip : Canadians are supposed to be unfailingly polite. I'm docking you a socialist credit point for today.

Further, shouldn't you be more concerned with Canada's headlong rush to communism? And the gestapo tactics used by your RCMP to jail religious leaders for their failure to think along approved government lines?

In the meantime, read up on Arizona's audit and especially take a gander at how much Biden won the State versus how much illegal votes were counted despite laws.

And then take a close look at how democrats fought them in court every step of the way in the audit, even going so far as to delete data the day before handing over the servers - the very same servers that a Judge had to order them to hand over.

If you think Arizona was legit last November, you've got more than a couple of bolts loose. And this was just one State, with an incomplete audit in ONE county.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?74221-Arizona-audit-result-confirms-that-Trump-lost&highlight=arizona+vote


Lol first off the only thing social about me are my diseases. Lol.

Good Gawd man, gestapo, head long rush to communism?


Get back to me when you have evidence. I mean come on. Evidence Nighty. Get me some evidence.
:gunner3::joy4:

[Mika-El]

Recall once you told me context is key. In the context of my comment, I was addressing who is whose worst problem. The Democratic Party IS the enemy of the US Constitution. That makes them MY enemy. The GOP is so busy trying to appease political correctness, not make waves (or be noticed) they throw each other under the bus routinely. The Dem's just need to accuse and the GOP will offer up a sacrificial lamb.

You haven't been along for the ride. Left to my own devices and all things being equal, I'm a live and let live moderate. I love common sense. We used to have some. When they start attacking the very things that set us apart and make us "freer" (relative), THAT is a threat and I'm not sure what else to call it. There are a lot of people, on our left, who don't belong here and don't deserve the rights and freedom a lot of people have bled and died for. Putin and Ping Pong can have them :)

Comparatively, Biden is as bad as anyone you mention.

With due respect Gunny a "moderate" or "reasonable" person like you and I would not call ALL leftists the enemy any more than we would call all Rightists the enemy. It polarizes and invites hatred.

Now on that point and I of course take what Nighty said tongue n cheek (fair is fair except no we have no commie revolution coming we are too boring for that) and I hope he knows like you I respect people but I challenge extremists on either side all kidding aside. I know you know that.

I tell you what though, let's get serious for one second, I truly believe Trump is dangerous. I think his accusations of rigged elections with zero proof, his inciting people to show disrespect for the fundamental democratic processes he was sworn to uphold are a danger to your country and its consitution no different than Pinochet was in Chile, Peron in Agentina, Franco in Span, the fascists of Portugal and Greece post WW2, Mussolini, Hitler, and now Erdogan in Turkey.

I do not support a man who openly belittled war vets he claims to respect. He belittled Colin Powell and John McCain when they died. He has done repeatedly cowardly, abusive things that dragged down the dignity of the US President's Office and I can say without hesitation in reverse to you Trump defenders, how can you guys be so blinded by partisan politics and your "like" of this man you can not acknowledge his disrespect and out and out contempt for democracy?

How do you defend a man who identified closely and openly cheered on Putin, Erdogan and that psycho troll in North Korea. How do you support a man who lied about Covid 19 and told people to inject poison in their veins and spent 4.5 years on a Twitter daily issuing childish insults?

What legacy does he have? What is his legacy? Please list his policy accomplishments. You have nothing. You have 4.5 years of a deadlocked House of Representatives and Senate, and a list of insults on twitter. That is his legacy. As for the lies he stated, they are all public record. Anyone can get the list. The man was a pathological liar. He repeated lie after lie after lie.

You Trump supporters fell into line like little Nazi or Communist party zombies. How far would he have dragged you? Are you any different than people wh o blindly followed Stalin, Hussein in Iraq, Nasser of Egypt or the Ayatollahs of Iran? You are cultists worshiping this man not the state he was supposed to represent. How far do you think Trump would have gone iif he had more time? God God's sake man he wanted to use your military in the streets to arrest Americans and ignore the democratic voting process. You had to have numerous former military generals sign a petition warning him not to try turn your military into a political force.

What next? If he runs again, he has demonstrated he does not respect the election process. This necessarily means he will not accept any vote results but the ones that put him in. How does he run? Come on man. This bullshit that the vote was fixed, prove it. He has no proof of any rigged election and yet Trump followers continue to blurt it out no different than others chant out death to America. What is the difference? How are people who storm your capitol buildings and scream out to hang VP Pence not "enemies"?

How does Trump run for any office now he has made it clear he will claim rigged election only if he loses? How and why would you or anyone reasonable fall in line with that? Tell me has Trump ever proposed a solution or an alternative to that which he claims is wrong? Well? Can you list one solution or alternative process Chant has ever offered? How do you claim something is broken as he does but when asked, just what is broken can't say and worse still can't explain how you will fix it?

Yes you Trump followers need a strong challenge.You abandon the ability to engage in debate. You fell in line like Zombies to Trump whines. You whine. You never propose solutions or alternatives. All we hear is why someone or something is bad. Never a policy.

How and why do you support a President who can not debate with coherent, clear, precise, completed thoughts? How do you support a man who continuously ;lies? How dso you support a man who turns every response into a personal insult back towards the person he disagrees with?

What have you settled for? Surely you are not an illiterate? Surely you know calling people names is no way to debate? Good Gawd man you have a Trump supporter respond on this thread defending Trump saying to a person who disagrees with them that they should not engage in personal attacks while this person defends Trump who did nothing but that and this person can not see the irony and contradiction?

What has happened to you Trump supporters?

If you want to call anyone an enemy, look at Trump supporters and people like you who get so caught up in the rhetoric calling people you disagree with the "enemy"..what does that mean you call people the enemy because they disagree with you and ask for proof of allegations you can't provide?

Who is the enemy at that point Gunny? The people you call the enemy are Americans just like you... no they are not just a label called leftist who you now lump in one stereotype to dehumanize as "enemy" they are your fellow citizens. They have names, lives, jobs, dreams. no different than you. They come in every shade of opinion including conservative Republican Americans.

Come on man do you really think everyone who voted for Biden can be simply labelled Leftist because they do not support Trump? You really believe that? Is Mitt Romney a leftist? Was John McCain a leftist? Is Jeb Bush a leftist? Colin Powell a leftist? Come on man.

How many of these "enemies" engaged in anything remotely as dangerous and divisive as to what Trump has said and done? How many of these enemies grab crotches, defend Putin and two bit dictators, avoid taxes and ridicule war vets let alone refused to serve using their wealth to evade the draft. How many of these so called enemy refused to pay taxes, use bankruptcy repeatedly to avoid paying wages, and out and out lied to their fellow Americans as many times as Trump has done this last 4.5 years? Hmmmm?

Good Gawd man, in a country of Lincoln, both Roosevelts, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, JFK, RFK, MLK, this is what you cheer on? This is what you think is what a politician let alone the leader of the free world so to speak should be? This is it?

Yah you bet I will have such people not Trump supporters. Hell round them all up and arrest them then when Trump gets elected/ Good luck.

[Gunny]

With due respect Gunny a "moderate" or "reasonable" person like you and I would not call ALL leftists the enemy any more than we would call all Rightists the enemy. It polarizes and invites hatred.

Now on that point and I of course take what Nighty said tongue n cheek and I hope he knows like you I respect people but I challenge extremists on either side all kidding aside. I know you know that.

I tell you what let's get serious for one second, I truly believe Trump is dangerous. I think his accusations of rigged elections, his inciting peopleto show disrespect for the fundamental democratic processes he was sworn to uphold are a danger to your country know different than Pinochet was in Chile, Person in Agentina, Franco in Span, the facists of Portugal and Greece ost WW2, Mussolini, Hitler, and now Erdogan in Turkey. I believe he does not honour anything America stands for. He belittled war vets he claims to respect. He belittled Colin Powell and John McCain when they died. He has done repeatedly cowardly, abusive things that dragged down the dignity of the US President's Office. He soiled the seal of the US with his behaviour and I can say without hesitation in reverse to you Trump defenders, how can you guys be so blinded by partisan politics you can not acknowledge his disrespect and out and out contempt of democracy? You support a man who identified closely and openly cheered on Putin Erdogan and that psycho troll in North Korea. You support a man who lied about Covid 19, told people to inject poison in their veins, and spent 4.5 years on a Twitter daily issuing childish insults. What legacy does he have? What is his legacy. Please list his policy accomplisments. You have nothing. You have 4.5 years of a deadlocked House of Representatives and Senate, and a list of insults on twitter. That is his legacy. As for the lies he stated, they are all public record. Anyone can get the list. The man was a pathological liar. He repeated lie after lie after lie.

You Trump supporters fell into line like little Nazi party zombies. How far would he have dragged you? Seriously. How far do you think Trump would have gone. He wanted to use your military in the streets to arrest Americans. You had to have numerous former military generals sign a petition warning him not to try turn your military into a political force.

What next? If he runs again, he has demonstrated he does not respect the election process. This necessarily means he will not accept any vote results but the ones that put him in. How does he run? Come on man. He has no proof of any rigged election and he has made it clear he will claim rigged election only if he loses. How and why would you or anyone reasonable fall in line with that?

You Trump followers need a strong challenge. If you want to call anyone an enemy, look at Trump and people like you who get so caught up in the rhetoric of his way or no way call people you disagree with the enemy...what does that mean you call people the enemy because they disagree with you and ask for proof of allegations you can't provide? Who is the enemy at that point Gunny? The enemy is Americans that is who. Not just leftist Americans, conservative Republican Americans. Come on man do you think everyone who voted for Biden can be simply labelled Leftist because they do not support Trump? You really believe that. Is Mitt Romney a leftist? Was John McCain a leftist? Is Jeb Bush a leftist? Colin Powell a leftist? Come on man.The premise of your argument is flawed insofar as it may pertain to me. You repeatedly preface commentary with "You Trump supporters". I can only assume you haven't read much of my commentary on him.

As it pertains to me, Trump was close to the bottom of the list of primary candidates in 2015. I voted for him for President as the GOP nominee because he was not the Democratic Party nominee. I believe I pointed out previously I also held my nose and voted for McCain and Romney, neither being representatives of conservative thinking or voice.

I supported Trump as President because generally, he did some good things/things I agreed with. When I didn't, I stated such and caught a bunch of flak over it, as did anyone else on this board that stated anything negative about Trump. It also is REAL hard to jump on the bandwagon of Trump detractors when they lied, made false allegations, complete with 2 year long witch hunt and attempts at impeachment. All of that was unnecessary BS and pretty much put a lot of people in "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" category. The left put me in the position of defending Trump far more than I would have myself.

This is a perfect example. Read my post previous to this one that didn't include uniformed, malicious and otherwise partisan accusations, I am hardly complimentary toward the man. He DOES have his good points that could be advantageous to this country. At this point and time, they are overwhelmed by his petty, childish behavior, in MY opinion. I consider him a threat to the GOP as a whole; which, IMO is more important than the threat he is to the Democratic party.

So you can call me al lot of things, but lumping me in with the Trump or nobody crowd isn't going to cut it, and does not reflect my opinion. If he runs again, depending on who is running against him in the primary will probably decide my vote. In the end, if he is the Republican nominee in 2024, I will hold my nose, again, and go vote against the democratic party.

The Democratic party is not just socialist, but socialist bordering on fascist and I will do my part to keep them out of power from the local librarian to the White House.

Back to context: Your opinion sounds a LOT like Euro-Canadian informed rather than living here at ground zero informed. I DO get that. A suggestion on my part is perhaps asking first instead of telling? Just an idea :)

Edit: Straight up, when the cities in the Northwest and Midwest were being taken over by leftist agitators, I was beside myself that the President did not use Federal force to put things back n order. Trump had every right to and did not. I consider that a check mark in the "fail" column. Yet, a handful of morons rush the Capitol in a spur of the moment, really stupid idea and that's an "insurrection"? The Democrats have hunted down everyone to include pen pals of the idiots and put them on trial. Where's THAT justice in Portland, Seattle, Minneapolis, et al? They took over Federal government buildings there, and the Dem Governors daring the President to use force.

Trump backed down to Erdogan. Another fail in my book. Far cry from your accusation. I wouldn't call the way he treated N Korea cozying up to anyone. Putin is Russia is dangerous. He got tough with China, Iran and N Korea and used the pocket book to do it.

Any time real armed conflict with a real enemy showed, he balked. So I'm not seeing your allegations as some kind of threat as having any ground under them.

Accuse him of what he is guilty of. I do. But I'm not going to jump on some bandwagon accusing him of all kinds of crap he didn't do. Not my style.

How did he lie about COVID?

[SassyLady]

Statement from Trump


The statement that I made a few weeks ago saying that Republicans will not vote if the Election Fraud of 2020 is not fixed, was in no way meant to imply that I would tell them not to vote, but rather that they may not have the incentive to vote if the election process is not fully remedied, and quickly. It was the Crime of the Century. We are working on solving that problem every day—it will be done! People do not want to spend their time and money to have a SCAM like that happen again. Regardless of anything or anyone, we must get out the Republican and SANE VOTE!

[NightTrain]

Lol first off the only thing social about me are my diseases. Lol.

Good Gawd man, gestapo, head long rush to communism?


Get back to me when you have evidence. I mean come on. Evidence Nighty. Get me some evidence.
:gunner3::joy4:


I see that you know how to use that keyboard and that you have an internet connection. You've been missing all the stories coming out of Canada where your politicians are siccing the RCMP and other cops on Pastors/Priests in their churches? Ordering them not to speak against what your socialists running your government approve?

If you'd like, I can give you a tutorial on how to search the internet. I'm cool like that.

This will get you started, though - this Pastor grew up behind the Iron Curtain and knows of what he speaks :

https://www.foxnews.com/world/canada-calgary-pastor-arrested-covid-health-order-church-service


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJazwy-DQRA

He won that round, but your vaunted RCMP got him later. So brave!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq-cHqBAjZk


There's lots more examples of your shenanigans there in Canada since the outbreak of the Kung Flu - never let a crisis go to waste, as the socialists say.

We've got a few democrat/socialists running amok here in America, but they pale in comparison to your iron-fisted tyrants. How does that boot taste, Comrade?

[Mika-El]

The premise of your argument is flawed insofar as it may pertain to me. You repeatedly preface commentary with "You Trump supporters". I can only assume you haven't read much of my commentary on him.

As it pertains to me, Trump was close to the bottom of the list of primary candidates in 2015. I voted for him for President as the GOP nominee because he was not the Democratic Party nominee. I believe I pointed out previously I also held my nose and voted for McCain and Romney, neither being representatives of conservative thinking or voice.

I supported Trump as President because generally, he did some good things/things I agreed with. When I didn't, I stated such and caught a bunch of flak over it, as did anyone else on this board that stated anything negative about Trump. It also is REAL hard to jump on the bandwagon of Trump detractors when they lied, made false allegations, complete with 2 year long witch hunt and attempts at impeachment. All of that was unnecessary BS and pretty much put a lot of people in "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" category. The left put me in the position of defending Trump far more than I would have myself.

This is a perfect example. Read my post previous to this one that didn't include uniformed, malicious and otherwise partisan accusations, I am hardly complimentary toward the man. He DOES have his good points that could be advantageous to this country. At this point and time, they are overwhelmed by his petty, childish behavior, in MY opinion. I consider him a threat to the GOP as a whole; which, IMO is more important than the threat he is to the Democratic party.

So you can call me al lot of things, but lumping me in with the Trump or nobody crowd isn't going to cut it, and does not reflect my opinion. If he runs again, depending on who is running against him in the primary will probably decide my vote. In the end, if he is the Republican nominee in 2024, I will hold my nose, again, and go vote against the democratic party.

The Democratic party is not just socialist, but socialist bordering on fascist and I will do my part to keep them out of power from the local librarian to the White House.

Back to context: Your opinion sounds a LOT like Euro-Canadian informed rather than living here at ground zero informed. I DO get that. A suggestion on my part is perhaps asking first instead of telling? Just an idea :)

Edit: Straight up, when the cities in the Northwest and Midwest were being taken over by leftist agitators, I was beside myself that the President did not use Federal force to put things back n order. Trump had every right to and did not. I consider that a check mark in the "fail" column. Yet, a handful of morons rush the Capitol in a spur of the moment, really stupid idea and that's an "insurrection"? The Democrats have hunted down everyone to include pen pals of the idiots and put them on trial. Where's THAT justice in Portland, Seattle, Minneapolis, et al? They took over Federal government buildings there, and the Dem Governors daring the President to use force.

Trump backed down to Erdogan. Another fail in my book. Far cry from your accusation. I wouldn't call the way he treated N Korea cozying up to anyone. Putin is Russia is dangerous. He got tough with China, Iran and N Korea and used the pocket book to do it.

Any time real armed conflict with a real enemy showed, he balked. So I'm not seeing your allegations as some kind of threat as having any ground under them.

Accuse him of what he is guilty of. I do. But I'm not going to jump on some bandwagon accusing him of all kinds of crap he didn't do. Not my style.

How did he lie about COVID?

1. You admit to supporting Trump just not everything he stands for. I acknowledge that...but you know politics...its kind of like pregnancy, when you try qualify it and say you are a little but pregnant but not a lot pregnant well I get it but you remain pregnant.

2. Euro-Canadians, or to be even more general, non Americans most certainly have distinct opinions on American politics and no are opinions are no less valid than someone without having cancer being able to discuss it. The argument you must have cancer to understand it with due respect is inaccurate. Using that logic, no one should have an opinion on anything they have never first hand experienced. That would mean, you, Trump, and most of his supporters who did have many opinions on things you do not directly live with or have experienced should not have opinions on them? How far you want to go with that kind of argument? Are you saying I should remain silent to Trump because I am not American? Does that mean I can not say anything about Erdogan, Putin, on and on? Hell man, you are welcome to discuss anything about Canada and Trudeau. Lol knock yourself out. The only thing I will say is we have better beer and coffee BUT concede your hockey players have now caught up in quality and ability.

3. In regards to internal violence and/or demonstrations in the US I try avoid any moral judgements. All I have said in those regards is people who break the law and engage in violence or property vandalism on either side are equally as wrong. I use the same standard with Canadians who have done the same and we have had our share of idiots int he streets yes.

Other then that I will challenge you or anyone of course who defends Trump. I try explain why. Unlike you my perspective yes as an outside wants an American President who regardless of whether he is a Republican or Democrat has the ability to be a world leader not just a domestic leader so yes we have that perspective that is different. We see much of your domestic disagreements as your business. We do though have a far different opinion as to medicare, gun control, and our history with blacks has some similarities but we have more blacks from countries where blacks were from countries where blacks were Judges, teachers, police, etc. so their experiences and the way they identify their blackness is not necessarily the way blacks who grew up in areas where blacks were not in such jobs, would be different. In fact those who engage in black matters politics in Canada are often born in Canada blacks heavily influenced by American black culture not West Indian or African culture. The racism blacks in Quebec experience is another complex matter. With French speaking blacks from French speaking African or Caribbean nations its probably based on skin colour but if its English speaking blacks it may just as much be based on the fact they do not speak English.

Canada has numerous ethnic and minority groups. The fact is we are now a minority country of sorts. We have over 120 languages and 85 different ethnic groups in Greater Toronto, the largest diversity in the world. Do not get me wrong, it doesn't mean we do not have racism, but we do not see it as limited to white on black but almost anyone on anyone else depending on the criteria.

We also do not like hand guns. Our history is anti gun. Our police only started carrying them in the mid 60's. We started on law and order and wanting to pay taxes to the King not rebel from him. When we placed aboriginals on reserves we did not use guns. We smiled and offered them tea and promises of all kinds we would then break slowly.Very little violence. We had a Louis Riel Rebellion but that was pretty miuch it. Otherwise we forced aboriginal children into schools where we shaved their hair, forced them to speak English, converted them to Christianity and either sodomized them or beat them all in the name of turning them "Canadian". We we have our history its just we couch it and have avoided parts of it when it made us appear less than civilized. That all said, our history is different of course. Our military traditions are much more low key. We try emulate the British. We like discipline but not in a bragging bold kind of way. We do not relish swagger like say the US military history or ven Australia's. We prefer low key nationalist displays.

No we do not agree with or approve of loudness, pushiness, assumptions everyone is just like us. We are not a melting pot like the US. We still cultivate people putting their ethnic description first, then a hyphen before Canadian. So much so it is preventing a unified Canadian identity. If anything that makes us the opposite of the US. There is no Canadian identity yet. Every time someone comes up with one its called too white, too British, too French, too European, too American, too diverse, on and on.

The major split in ideology in Canada is not white black, but French English.

So yah you pick up those differences. Also a lot of Americans think we are socialist because we do not mind gun control or medicare. They would be wrong. The fact we have no problem with both those things or for that matter regulation of our banking industry does not make us socialist. We do however believe a free enterprise society needs checks and balances and at times regulations to protect competition from monopolies and unfair economic transactions. So that makes us a mixed economy. We have more regulation in some areas by government, but less in other areas than Americans. We pay higher taxes for sure.

Our history is not defined by guns or militias...just people from France and England who came over to start all over again, then be followed by other poor Europeans coming to a native aboriginal land. We actually incorporated many aboriginal laws and customs unlike the US.

Our aboriginals entered into legal treaties with the King of England that when Canada was founded, it inherited and those treaties, many broken are protected and recognized in our laws and the current "socialist" government as you would call it is fighting to resist paying millions still owed aboriginals for broken treaty rights.

We did like Obama not because of his domestic policies necessarily but because of his oratory skills and manner. We most certainly openly loved JFK so much so we sided with him over his conflict with John Diefenbaker our Prime Minister at that time in the early 60's over nuclear missile deployment. LBJ hated our next Prime Minister Lester B. Pearson, Nixon hated Pierre Trudeau, Reagan and Mulroney were Irish bosom buddies. Chretiens and Clinton got along and the rest of your Presidents we just dealt with. Eisenhower of course being Commander of WW2 forces and FDR and Truman over WW2 we saw as important world leaders at times of crisis. Other leaders not mentioned we have been luke warm about but I can tell you Trump was widely disrespected by our right and left equally for the exact same reasons he was in the US by the Governors of the 35 states who depended heavily on cross border trade with Canada. He had no understanding of US Canada trade. Luckily the actual people behind the scenes who re-wrote the free trade treaty did. However his deliberate breaking of the treaty in regards to Aluminum exports not only broke the treaty's provisions, but alienated Europe not just Canada.

Trump's disruption of NATO and mutual trade with Canada, Mexico and Europe, worked right into the hands of Putin.

Canada has strong opinions against Putin, North Korea and Erdogan in Turkey, Trump did not share. We both agreed during his time on Iran. Trudeau made a fool of himself sucking up to China which most Canadians disagreed with and still do.

[Abbey Marie]

[COLOR=#2D3436][FONT=system-ui]Statement from Trump

I’m glad to hear this.

[fj1200]

Statement from Trump


I’m glad to hear this.

I have a feeling that many trump supporters won't act based on the new statement but rather the original interpretation. I hope I'm wrong.

[Mika-El]

[COLOR=#2D3436][FONT=system-ui]Statement from Trump

Ahahahah.

Um uh um uh when I said don't vote i um uh meant don't vote unless the vote re-elects me.

Oh well then. :dance::stupid:


Are Trump cultees really this brain dead? Really?


https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/12/17/these-are-the-voter-fraud-claims-trump-tried-and-failed-to-overturn-the-election-with/?sh=1fcda81058c5

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/trump-campaign-steal-presidency-timeline.html

https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-ap-fact-check-joe-biden-donald-trump-technology-49a24edd6d10888dbad61689c24b05a5

https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/ensure-every-american-can-vote/vote-suppression/myth-voter-fraud

https://campaignlegal.org/update/compiling-truth-resource-refute-trumps-stolen-election-lies

[Mika-El]

Good gawd man not even Trump's campaign team bought his rigged election bullshit.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/573227-trump-campaign-knew-soon-after-election-that-voting-machine-tampering-claims

[Gunny]

1. You admit to supporting Trump just not everything he stands for. I acknowledge that...but you know politics...its kind of like pregnancy, when you try qualify it and say you are a little but pregnant but not a lot pregnant well I get it but you remain pregnant.

2. Euro-Canadians, or to be even more general, non Americans most certainly have distinct opinions on American politics and no are opinions are no less valid than someone without having cancer being able to discuss it. The argument you must have cancer to understand it with due respect is inaccurate. Using that logic, no one should have an opinion on anything they have never first hand experienced. That would mean, you, Trump, and most of his supporters who did have many opinions on things you do not directly live with or have experienced should not have opinions on them? How far you want to go with that kind of argument? Are you saying I should remain silent to Trump because I am not American? Does that mean I can not say anything about Erdogan, Putin, on and on? Hell man, you are welcome to discuss anything about Canada and Trudeau. Lol knock yourself out. The only thing I will say is we have better beer and coffee BUT concede your hockey players have now caught up in quality and ability.

3. In regards to internal violence and/or demonstrations in the US I try avoid any moral judgements. All I have said in those regards is people who break the law and engage in violence or property vandalism on either side are equally as wrong. I use the same standard with Canadians who have done the same and we have had our share of idiots int he streets yes.

Other then that I will challenge you or anyone of course who defends Trump. I try explain why. Unlike you my perspective yes as an outside wants an American President who regardless of whether he is a Republican or Democrat has the ability to be a world leader not just a domestic leader so yes we have that perspective that is different. We see much of your domestic disagreements as your business. We do though have a far different opinion as to medicare, gun control, and our history with blacks has some similarities but we have more blacks from countries where blacks were from countries where blacks were Judges, teachers, police, etc. so their experiences and the way they identify their blackness is not necessarily the way blacks who grew up in areas where blacks were not in such jobs, would be different. In fact those who engage in black matters politics in Canada are often born in Canada blacks heavily influenced by American black culture not West Indian or African culture. The racism blacks in Quebec experience is another complex matter. With French speaking blacks from French speaking African or Caribbean nations its probably based on skin colour but if its English speaking blacks it may just as much be based on the fact they do not speak English.

Canada has numerous ethnic and minority groups. The fact is we are now a minority country of sorts. We have over 120 languages and 85 different ethnic groups in Greater Toronto, the largest diversity in the world. Do not get me wrong, it doesn't mean we do not have racism, but we do not see it as limited to white on black but almost anyone on anyone else depending on the criteria.

We also do not like hand guns. Our history is anti gun. Our police only started carrying them in the mid 60's. We started on law and order and wanting to pay taxes to the King not rebel from him. When we placed aboriginals on reserves we did not use guns. We smiled and offered them tea and promises of all kinds we would then break slowly.Very little violence. We had a Louis Riel Rebellion but that was pretty miuch it. Otherwise we forced aboriginal children into schools where we shaved their hair, forced them to speak English, converted them to Christianity and either sodomized them or beat them all in the name of turning them "Canadian". We we have our history its just we couch it and have avoided parts of it when it made us appear less than civilized. That all said, our history is different of course. Our military traditions are much more low key. We try emulate the British. We like discipline but not in a bragging bold kind of way. We do not relish swagger like say the US military history or ven Australia's. We prefer low key nationalist displays.

No we do not agree with or approve of loudness, pushiness, assumptions everyone is just like us. We are not a melting pot like the US. We still cultivate people putting their ethnic description first, then a hyphen before Canadian. So much so it is preventing a unified Canadian identity. If anything that makes us the opposite of the US. There is no Canadian identity yet. Every time someone comes up with one its called too white, too British, too French, too European, too American, too diverse, on and on.

The major split in ideology in Canada is not white black, but French English.

So yah you pick up those differences. Also a lot of Americans think we are socialist because we do not mind gun control or medicare. They would be wrong. The fact we have no problem with both those things or for that matter regulation of our banking industry does not make us socialist. We do however believe a free enterprise society needs checks and balances and at times regulations to protect competition from monopolies and unfair economic transactions. So that makes us a mixed economy. We have more regulation in some areas by government, but less in other areas than Americans. We pay higher taxes for sure.

Our history is not defined by guns or militias...just people from France and England who came over to start all over again, then be followed by other poor Europeans coming to a native aboriginal land. We actually incorporated many aboriginal laws and customs unlike the US.

Our aboriginals entered into legal treaties with the King of England that when Canada was founded, it inherited and those treaties, many broken are protected and recognized in our laws and the current "socialist" government as you would call it is fighting to resist paying millions still owed aboriginals for broken treaty rights.

We did like Obama not because of his domestic policies necessarily but because of his oratory skills and manner. We most certainly openly loved JFK so much so we sided with him over his conflict with John Diefenbaker our Prime Minister at that time in the early 60's over nuclear missile deployment. LBJ hated our next Prime Minister Lester B. Pearson, Nixon hated Pierre Trudeau, Reagan and Mulroney were Irish bosom buddies. Chretiens and Clinton got along and the rest of your Presidents we just dealt with. Eisenhower of course being Commander of WW2 forces and FDR and Truman over WW2 we saw as important world leaders at times of crisis. Other leaders not mentioned we have been luke warm about but I can tell you Trump was widely disrespected by our right and left equally for the exact same reasons he was in the US by the Governors of the 35 states who depended heavily on cross border trade with Canada. He had no understanding of US Canada trade. Luckily the actual people behind the scenes who re-wrote the free trade treaty did. However his deliberate breaking of the treaty in regards to Aluminum exports not only broke the treaty's provisions, but alienated Europe not just Canada.

Trump's disruption of NATO and mutual trade with Canada, Mexico and Europe, worked right into the hands of Putin.

Canada has strong opinions against Putin, North Korea and Erdogan in Turkey, Trump did not share. We both agreed during his time on Iran. Trudeau made a fool of himself sucking up to China which most Canadians disagreed with and still do.The argument that I was a little or a lot stuck with Trump because he wasn't the criminal and self-serving Hillary Clinton is what it is. I readily admit I supported him. From MY POV, which is the one that counts, I was given no other option. Not that I could sleep with.

That choice did not and does not change my opinion of Trump, nor what I consider right and/or wrong (as it pertains to politics and politicians for the purposes of this discussion). The reason for this statement at all is your repeated lumping everyone that voted for Trump into one bag as those that foam at the mouth support his every move and thought. A highly inaccurate description of those of us given two, lousy options.

I don't discount opinions of those not from here. In fact, I am and have always been more open to foreign opinions than most Americans because I have lived abroad off and on most of my life. While some do not realize, accept nor understand there's a real World out there that isn't necessarily as propaganda would have them believe, I am not one.

That does not negate the fact that I live here in the US, and these decisions affect me and this Nation directly and indirectly, and I have a whole lot more at stake than someone who observes 3rd hand as a hobby. Frankly, most opinions of the US from outside the US, IMO, show just as much ignorance and belief in MSM rhetoric as fact as any opinion held by the aforementioned of US ignorance of other countries. Be truthful. I haven't met many people from other countries that think we have a clue about others, and as a Nation/people/society, I would agree with that opinion. That statement works in both directions.

Based on the current, standard labels of political ideologies, Canada is more socialist than the US. Statement of fact, not judgment. It's also relative to who is doing the talking. Canada looks like a capitalist, free enterprise compared to many other nations. Your opinions of who you "like" as US politicians says a lot to me. McCain and Romney both were (Romney still) Republicans who earned their notoriety by going against the GOP agenda. Mostly for personal rather than professional reasons. I held my nose and voted for them too, but would have spent their terms as Presidents knee deep in both their figurative asses.

I generally start judging others when others start judging me :poke: I don't have much comment on Canada's internal issues except as a case by case issue as I hear of them and expressing an opinion at the time.

You stated somewhere that you want the best President for the US. So do I. I'm just betting "what's best" is where the trail splits.

[Mika-El]

Its very simple. Why won't one of you Trump cultees come on this board and provide proof of election fraud.

Sassy, Abby, Night Train where is it?

Please. Educate us all. Provide the evidence. Lol.:explosion::blowup:




https://www.hoover.org/research/no-evidence-voter-fraud-guide-statistical-claims-about-2020-election

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/08/10/fact-check-8-million-excess-biden-votes-werent-counted-2020/5512962001/

https://www.bbc.com/news/55561877

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/02/19/no-evidence-of-election-fraud-in-battleground-states-statistical-analysis-finds-as-trump-continues-false-claims/?sh=3fc2a90f3315

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/presidential-election-2020-conspiracy-theories-debunked/

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article248246980.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/michigan-republicans-eviscerate-trump-voter-fraud-claims-scathing-report-n1272116

https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/11/trump-lawsuit-affidavits-allege-misconduct-do-not-show-widespread-fraud/6247949002/

https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2021/05/04/arizona-ballot-watermarks-fact-check-conspiracy-theory/4938666001/

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/politics/decision-2020/election-review-no-fraud-behind-late-night-votes-in-nj-county/3382010/

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/2020/11/23/portman-no-proof-mass-fraud-would-change-election-result/6389605002/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/us-election-voter-fraud-trump-cybersecurity-b1722292.html

https://www.dw.com/en/us-election-officials-no-evidence-of-voter-fraud/a-55584309

https://www.wired.com/story/trump-voter-fraud-election-no-proof/

[Mika-El]

The argument that I was a little or a lot stuck with Trump because he wasn't the criminal and self-serving Hillary Clinton is what it is. I readily admit I supported him. From MY POV, which is the one that counts, I was given no other option. Not that I could sleep with.

That choice did not and does not change my opinion of Trump, nor what I consider right and/or wrong (as it pertains to politics and politicians for the purposes of this discussion). The reason for this statement at all is your repeated lumping everyone that voted for Trump into one bag as those that foam at the mouth support his every move and thought. A highly inaccurate description of those of us given two, lousy options.

I don't discount opinions of those not from here. In fact, I am and have always been more open to foreign opinions than most Americans because I have lived abroad off and on most of my life. While some do not realize, accept nor understand there's a real World out there that isn't necessarily as propaganda would have them believe, I am not one.

That does not negate the fact that I live here in the US, and these decisions affect me and this Nation directly and indirectly, and I have a whole lot more at stake than someone who observes 3rd hand as a hobby. Frankly, most opinions of the US from outside the US, IMO, show just as much ignorance and belief in MSM rhetoric as fact as any opinion held by the aforementioned of US ignorance of other countries. Be truthful. I haven't met many people from other countries that think we have a clue about others, and as a Nation/people/society, I would agree with that opinion. That statement works in both directions.

Based on the current, standard labels of political ideologies, Canada is more socialist than the US. Statement of fact, not judgment. It's also relative to who is doing the talking. Canada looks like a capitalist, free enterprise compared to many other nations. Your opinions of who you "like" as US politicians says a lot to me. McCain and Romney both were (Romney still) Republicans who earned their notoriety by going against the GOP agenda. Mostly for personal rather than professional reasons. I held my nose and voted for them too, but would have spent their terms as Presidents knee deep in both their figurative asses.

I generally start judging others when others start judging me :poke: I don't have much comment on Canada's internal issues except as a case by case issue as I hear of them and expressing an opinion at the time.

You stated somewhere that you want the best President for the US. So do I. I'm just betting "what's best" is where the trail splits.


To start with I have not lumped all Trump supporters as thinking the same way although at times I am tempted to as I am sure you are with certain Democrats. Its tempting yes! Yes I do like all of us make generalizations for discussions on this forum. I stand corrected when I do that. Fair is far. When I come on this board I try my best to challenge those of you who support Trump for the things you might indicate in writing and nothing else. Please believe that and I do so to debate not to insult although I love to poke a little moo ha and ha. Sense of humour guys please. Poke away at my beaver tail.

I do directly challenge any Trump supporter or any other person who is a Trump supporter or not if they make allegations of voter fraud and rigged elections to put up or shut up and when they give NO proof or evidence for it.

Unlike Trump cultees, I do NOT claim all Republicans who are voting Republican in mid terms are pro Trump and that is why they are voting Republican. In fact I repeat, they vote the way they do because they probably do not agree with Biden economic and social policies. Whether they vote that way because they are pro Trump and/or believe there was election fraud I do not know and do not claim to know. No where in my posts do I lump all Republicans as thinking the same way.

I do believe and say it now, that if anyone wants to jump on Trump's band wagon and claim the election is fixed and those who marched on the Capital and called for Pence's head and engaged in violence are patriots,I consider you nothing more than brown shirt fascists. There you go. My biases are very clear. Kapow.

Now then when claim Hilary is more of a criminal than Trump. ...well that to me that is a bias partisan subjective statement that tries try to argue what exactly....that Trump has less herpes sores than Hilary? Really? To me they both should not be kissed whether they have one or more sores on their mouth. Yech to both of them.

Next, calling Canada more socialist than the US is not a fact. A fact is established by an objective measurement not a subjective preconceived belief you refer to as "standard label of ideologies". What "standard labels"? Please provide your criteria.

What are your standard labels certainly not this one:

https://www.advisor.ca/news/economic/is-the-u-s-more-socialist-than-canada/


or this one:

https://fee.org/articles/does-canada-have-more-economic-freedom-than-the-united-states/


or this one:

https://icycanada.com/is-canada-socialist-7-easy-facts-to-decode-it/


or this one:

https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

The fact is many of you Americans will throw out the word "socialism" as a catch 22 derogatory word without defining it and call not just Canada but Biden socialist..but why? What do you mean?

If you really want to have a discussion comparing the Canadian and American economic systems we can but we are not that different. The incorrect stereotypes Americans have of Canadian government probably comes from your impressions from gun control and medicare. In fact if you exam objectively our tax systems ours is not as restrictive as yours. We pay higher taxes but in fact your federal government controls far more economic activity through regulation than our Canadian federal government.

So again unless we are clear on what "socialist" means its hard to make useful comparisons and no I do not understand why You Americans call Biden socialist. Where has he called for nationalization of existing American companies?

As for Trump he was all for government intervention and regulation to protect specific American businesses from having to engage in free trade with Canada and Mexico which was pretty socialist of him. Take a look at his policies on aluminum. Hardly a supporter of free enterprise.

[SassyLady]

I have a feeling that many trump supporters won't act based on the new statement but rather the original interpretation. I hope I'm wrong.

Well, for someone like you who believes trump supporters can't think for themselves and only do what trump says I find it interesting that you think they'll do some things he says to do but not others.

[SassyLady]

Its very simple. Why won't one of you Trump cultees come on this board and provide proof of election fraud.

Sassy, Abby, Night Train where is it?

Please. Educate us all. Provide the evidence. Lol.:explosion::blowup:




https://www.hoover.org/research/no-evidence-voter-fraud-guide-statistical-claims-about-2020-election

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/08/10/fact-check-8-million-excess-biden-votes-werent-counted-2020/5512962001/

https://www.bbc.com/news/55561877

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/02/19/no-evidence-of-election-fraud-in-battleground-states-statistical-analysis-finds-as-trump-continues-false-claims/?sh=3fc2a90f3315

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/presidential-election-2020-conspiracy-theories-debunked/

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article248246980.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/michigan-republicans-eviscerate-trump-voter-fraud-claims-scathing-report-n1272116

https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/11/trump-lawsuit-affidavits-allege-misconduct-do-not-show-widespread-fraud/6247949002/

https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2021/05/04/arizona-ballot-watermarks-fact-check-conspiracy-theory/4938666001/

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/politics/decision-2020/election-review-no-fraud-behind-late-night-votes-in-nj-county/3382010/

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/2020/11/23/portman-no-proof-mass-fraud-would-change-election-result/6389605002/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/us-election-voter-fraud-trump-cybersecurity-b1722292.html

https://www.dw.com/en/us-election-officials-no-evidence-of-voter-fraud/a-55584309

https://www.wired.com/story/trump-voter-fraud-election-no-proof/

Only responding because you threw my name out there.

First ... we are not Trump cultees just because we supported his policies. That phraseology is a leftist tactic to shame people to think like yourself and frankly doesn't work to have open dialog. So, until you can show respect for the posters on this board why should we waste our time trying to educate you, a leftist?

[Mika-El]

I believe there is a movement to bring ballot integrity to our election system but once again main stream media will not give it any attention. Mark Finchem.

He's working with a company to come up with a watermark ballot.

Mark Finchem is a Trump cultee backing the unsubstantiated voter fraud allegations and was involved in the Capital Hill insurrection. Trump is endorsing him to run as Secretary of State in Arizona so that in 2024, if Trump again loses Arizona this man would be in charge of the voting system and could try unilaterally overturn it calling it fraudulent. This man has made accusations of voter fraud but when repeatedly asked to prove his allegations has stormed out of press conferences with no evidence. He is an example of an extremist who makes a lot of noise for Trump but has zero proof for his allegations. If you look carefully at his "watermark " ballot it would not even prevent the voter fraud he is accusing others of.

Wow what a surprose Sassy would attempt to pose him as bringing integrity to the ballot system.


https://blogforarizona.net/rep-mark-finchems-emails-show-he-was-deeply-involved-in-the-planning-of-january-6-maga-insurrection/

https://www.azmirror.com/2021/06/02/mark-finchem-was-much-closer-to-the-jan-6-insurrection-than-he-claimed/


https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/4/13/2025724/-Crazy-Stupid-Republican-of-the-Day-Mark-Finchem-2021-Update\


https://www.azfamily.com/news/politics/arizona_politics/mark-finchem-calls-for-decertification-of-2020-election-results/article_9059b516-2af5-11ec-bbc6-3b0b3083c682.html


https://recallfinchem.com/

https://www.pinalcentral.com/mark-finchem-storms-off-during-press-questioning/video_a5d888b2-2ebf-556d-bed4-c32f7545fbf0.html

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-endorses-arizona-sos-candidate-mark-finchem-self-proclaimed-member-oath-keepers-1628715

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/16/politics/trump-secretary-of-state-big-lie/index.html

[Mika-El]

Only responding because you threw my name out there.

First ... we are not Trump cultees just because we supported his policies. That phraseology is a leftist tactic to shame people to think like yourself and frankly doesn't work to have open dialog. So, until you can show respect for the posters on this board why should we waste our time trying to educate you, a leftist?


Of course I called you out. Where is proof of your false allegations. Now that you have made it about you, because all I asked was for proof, no I will NOT show any respect for people who falsely insult their fellow Americans or the basic democratic traditions of the US and make false unsubstantiated accusations accusing thousands upon thousands of Americans of engaging in voter conspiracy. I will call it out as disrespectful fascist thug behaviour.

Tell me, do you respect your fellow Americans including Republicans who exercised their right to vote against Trump? No of course not. You smear them all as conspirators. Its time extremist cult followers of Trump like you are called out for engaging in fascist strong arm tactics.. Put up or shut up with your false accusations.

If you can't stand the heat don't make the unsubstantiated allegations.

You are damn right I am calling you out.If people like me don't people like you will assure democracy is undermined and people who do not vote for your messiah get strong armed. Voter integrity? Where were you in 2016? Vote called the election rigged but when he was voted in with less than the popular vote and only the very electoral vote he called rigged where were you? Where were you when he got re-elected following up on the rigged voting? Not a peep until he lost the last election? Why?

Of course you are called out for that crass opportunistic argument.

No you get zero respect and get called out as a Brownshirt for such tactics. False allegations mean what? Where is your proof? Where do you get off undermining your election system and accuse your fellow Americans of being dishonest with no proof? It is reprehensible and does not make you a martyr victim for saying so, just a thug in my opinion.

[Mika-El]

I see that you know how to use that keyboard and that you have an internet connection. You've been missing all the stories coming out of Canada where your politicians are siccing the RCMP and other cops on Pastors/Priests in their churches? Ordering them not to speak against what your socialists running your government approve?

If you'd like, I can give you a tutorial on how to search the internet. I'm cool like that.

This will get you started, though - this Pastor grew up behind the Iron Curtain and knows of what he speaks :

https://www.foxnews.com/world/canada-calgary-pastor-arrested-covid-health-order-church-service


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJazwy-DQRA

He won that round, but your vaunted RCMP got him later. So brave!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq-cHqBAjZk


There's lots more examples of your shenanigans there in Canada since the outbreak of the Kung Flu - never let a crisis go to waste, as the socialists say.

We've got a few democrat/socialists running amok here in America, but they pale in comparison to your iron-fisted tyrants. How does that boot taste, Comrade?



Thank you. You provided videos of police acting politely being abused and called Gestapo and Nazis.

To start with this has nothing to do with this thread but it does reflect and explain your extremist views as to authority and for that matter anything you disagree with and your lack of understanding of Canadian laws.

To start with the police you have shown videos of were trying to enforce a law requiring people wear masks in public and in gatherings.


The Charter in Section 1 says:
Rights and freedoms in Canada1 The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.


This section was placed in precisely because it states a Canadian citizen's right to freedom is not unlimited. No I do not have the unlimited right to spread disease, engage in hate speech to incite violence, hit people or engage in illegal use of drugs or marry more than once at the same time claiming its my religious belief.

The alleged clergyman yelling at the police and calling them Nazis and gestapo was holding a church service where people were refusing to wear masks. Likewise the people pulled over were deliberately testing the law requiring people wear masks in public on another matter. Of course you removed both videos from their actual context to advance your agenda. Tell me were you on this site speaking out when Floyd died? Did that concern you? You don't have to answer. I know the answer. Thank you. You are of course selective as to what outrages you. If the police enforce what you want who you complain?

To call the police gestapo for doing what they did is insulting to my family and many others who survived the holocaust or came out of police states where police would not have shown the courtesy these officers did. We know the difference and so we will be the first to speak out if the police act excessively but the first to defend them when people like you misappropriate the words Nazi and Gestapo to berate them for doing their job. If anyone is the fascist thug its you. This is exactly how Hitler Brownshirts or Mussolini blackshirts undermined their own civilian police forces in WW2.

For you or anyone to cheer on people calling them Nazis and Gestapo is the kind of reprehensible extremism you would be the first to scream about if it was done by someone in Antifa or Black Lives Matter. Wear it. Wear the accusation. I am calling you out as a thug fascist for trying to demonize the police in a Trump thread.

I call you out because you show disrespect for the law because you disagree with it. You show you believe you are self entitled to break laws you don't agree with and worse, project your self entitlement to justify insulting police doing their job and showing courtesy and professional behaviour.

Other than advance your angry behaviour to break laws you disagree with what have you proven? What ideology have you proven or established?

Are you saying you are a Trump supporter and this is what Trump supporters believe?

Speak to Sassy. Tell her because right now she thinks I am being disrespectful to extremists like you who have no respect for the law and believe if you engage in violence or have tantrums or both this is a rational way to get your opinions across. What you want to tell me there was no violence at Capital Hill and the police trying to protect it were fascists and calling out for Pence's death was nothing nor was the physical violence?

Tell me is that what you are telling me is what Trump stands for....Someone when the law is not to his liking calls for it to be broken it and incites violent tantrums?

Where is your proof of rigged ballots? Where are they? Why are you deflecting with such pathetic videos?

Well?

What was your point?

You even know other than to show what an extremist you are in cheering people who act like self entitled brats? Hmmm?

You want to start a thread complaining Covid 19 is a conspiracy and you should do what ever you want, go ahead. Yah I get it. You voted for Trump because you think he supports your anger with authority.

Good for you but its precisely why I challenge you and any other Trump supporter with such beliefs and call you fascist thugs.

You show no respect for others or the law just your own immediate needs.

Have a nice day and if you call my police in my country Gestapo for being polite of course I will dismiss you as a nutjob.

[Gunny]

Of course I called you out. Where is proof of your false allegations. Now that you have made it about you, because all I asked was for proof, no I will NOT show any respect for people who falsely insult their fellow Americans or the basic democratic traditions of the US and make false unsubstantiated accusations accusing thousands upon thousands of Americans of engaging in voter conspiracy. I will call it out as disrespectful fascist thug behaviour.

Tell me, do you respect your fellow Americans including Republicans who exercised their right to vote against Trump? No of course not. You smear them all as conspirators. Its time extremist cult followers of Trump like you are called out for engaging in fascist strong arm tactics.. Put up or shut up with your false accusations.

If you can't stand the heat don't make the unsubstantiated allegations.

You are damn right I am calling you out.If people like me don't people like you will assure democracy is undermined and people who do not vote for your messiah get strong armed. Voter integrity? Where were you in 2016? Vote called the election rigged but when he was voted in with less than the popular vote and only the very electoral vote he called rigged where were you? Where were you when he got re-elected following up on the rigged voting? Not a peep until he lost the last election? Why?

Of course you are called out for that crass opportunistic argument.

No you get zero respect and get called out as a Brownshirt for such tactics. False allegations mean what? Where is your proof? Where do you get off undermining your election system and accuse your fellow Americans of being dishonest with no proof? It is reprehensible and does not make you a martyr victim for saying so, just a thug in my opinion.Standing and shouting rudely from a soapbox perched on a pillar of sand gets your argument nowhere.

You can no more disprove the accusation than it can be proven.

IF accuracy, accountability and security were absolute and exist, there would be absolute evidence to support your claim. There isn't. The Democratic Party, AS A NATIONAL POLITICAL ENTITY has done everything it can to stop any form of tightening accountability and if fact have done everything it can to undermine such. THAT is a fact. Why would anyone suspect the Dems/left of anything if they weren't giving every reason to? They aren't fighting against accountability for no reason.

Where there's smoke, there's fire. I see every reason to tighten to voter/vote security and accountability and NO reason not to. If it's as honest as you claim, there should be no resistance and/or issue to doing such, right?

How's that brown shirt fit? Itch? Just wondering. You're behaving exactly as you are accusing others of.

As far as the past? Election's over and the win went down in the books for Clueless Joe. Time to move on.

[NightTrain]

A rude snarky socialist barking orders? I think I'll pass on your 'demands', Comrade. I have no desire to feed you information that I've already hashed & rehashed. You're a day late and a dollar short on this debate.

I already gave you the thread so you could educate yourself, but I see that, like most socialists, you have no desire to actually read anything and merrily continue to pretend it never happened. Continue to live like a mushroom, with my compliments!


Canada used to be a pretty great country, but it's a sad thing to see people like you devolve into snarling socialists cheering on your thuggish government imprisoning your fellow citizens not conforming to your groupthink. Back in the '70s & '80s, you were a decent people. Proud and self sufficient, intelligent and friendly to Americans like me who frequently traveled the Alaska Highway.

These days you people have too much time on your hands and not enough challenges - you're soft and directionless. And I can't help but think that a large reason for that is because we provide for your national defense and you profit greatly off our economy. The only reason you haven't been conquered yet is because of the USA.

You are unarmed, no military, no capacity to defend yourselves. Your focus is on cheering on your police throwing freedom-minded religious leaders into jail. Even better that the Pastor is a bona-fide immigrant from behind the Iron Curtain who clearly sees where your backwards country is lurching at record pace. Yeah, you do love your Trudeau, don't you? :laugh:

Personally, I think we should end our thankless benevolence by protecting you and let the chips fall where they may. You'd quickly wake up and start behaving like men instead of the simping cowards cheering on your track to outright communism.

You still didn't answer the question of how that government boot tastes?

Good day, Comrade!

[Russ]

Its very simple. Why won't one of you Trump cultees come on this board and provide proof of election fraud.


Not saying I have "proof", but there is a lot of reason to have suspicions of the 2020 election due to the slew of hastily-enacted voting changes that were put in place for that election, most of which were pushed by Dems and most of which had a side-effect of making voting fraud potentially easier to pull off.

I'm talking primarily about not requiring voter ID, unsolicited mail-in ballots sent to everyone in a state, ballot harvesting, and unattended drop-off ballot boxes. Anything that allows one person to drop off ballots for large groups of other voters invites voter fraud. Anything that doesn't match one ID to one vote invites voter fraud. Anything that would make it easy to photocopy a mail-in voting form and fill in a bunch of them invites voter fraud. We had a bunch of new rules like this for the pandemic, so it is valid to suspect voter fraud.

It is also telling, by the way, that Dems want to keep these rules now even though the pandemic is winding down. Dems like loosey goosey election rules, because Dems like election fraud.

Do I have proof of election fraud? No. But I have valid reasons to suspect it. Do you have proof there was not election fraud? NO, you do not.

It was amazing how quickly Dems checked on election fraud this year:
November 3, 2020 - General Election
November 4, 2020 12:01am - Dems claim they checked for election fraud and there wasn't any. How'd they check in 60 seconds? Hmm.
When asked how they know there wasn't any election fraud, Dems just mumbled something and then waited for CNN to automatically back them up.

[fj1200]

Well, for someone like you who believes trump supporters can't think for themselves and only do what trump says I find it interesting that you think they'll do some things he says to do but not others.

Not quite sure what to make of that. I don't lump all of anyone into any category but the problem is actions by those at the margin. I submit that those at the margin cost the Republicans the Senate based on the GA runoff last year based on trump comments. I hope those at the margin don't cost Republicans the Senate or the House next year based on trump comments.

[Mika-El]

Standing and shouting rudely from a soapbox perched on a pillar of sand gets your argument nowhere.

You can no more disprove the accusation than it can be proven.
Time to move on.

To start with disagreeing with Trump supporters who have no evidence of the allegations they make does not make me angry or rude lol.

Please do not tell me how I feel emotionally.

Next what does the comment I can not disprove unfounded allegations mean? That is illogical. I can not prove something does not exist and if you want to claim something and can't prove it, no I have no obligation to do anything other that to point out its baseless.

Next why are you telling me to move on when Trump supporters continue to lie and fabricate false allegations? Why would I stop when they continue to lie. Liars need to be called out and challenged when they threaten democracy and people for disagreeing with them.

You want to make false allegations about rigged elections and call Americans you do not know conspirators for not agreeing with you of course I would call that out as Nazi brown shirt tactics. Its exactly what it is. Trump is now no different than Mussolini or Hitler in his tactics and no I will not sit silently while he tries to orchestrate his way back in without calling him out as a fascist.

Have a nice day.

[jimnyc]

Of course I called you out. Where is proof of your false allegations. Now that you have made it about you, because all I asked was for proof, no I will NOT show any respect for people who falsely insult their fellow Americans or the basic democratic traditions of the US and make false unsubstantiated accusations accusing thousands upon thousands of Americans of engaging in voter conspiracy. I will call it out as disrespectful fascist thug behaviour.

No reason to be purposely disrespectful, and jumping on Americans, or Trump supporters or whatever your issue is.

Play games and you'll lose.

See you in 24.

Have a nice day.

[Abbey Marie]

Its very simple. Why won't one of you Trump cultees come on this board and provide proof of election fraud.

Sassy, Abby, Night Train where is it?

Please. Educate us all. Provide the evidence. Lol.:explosion::blowup:
…



I have proof, but I’m not showing it to you.

:laugh:

[icansayit]

When all of us were growing up. We were warned about Never Speaking to Bullies who have no intelligence, and only want to make trouble to convince themselves how DUMB they are. STAY AWAY FROM STUPID PEOPLE...we were told. And don't speak to them. Let them speak and prove WHO THE REAL IDIOTS ARE.

[SassyLady]

Mark Finchem is a Trump cultee backing the unsubstantiated voter fraud allegations and was involved in the Capital Hill insurrection. Trump is endorsing him to run as Secretary of State in Arizona so that in 2024, if Trump again loses Arizona this man would be in charge of the voting system and could try unilaterally overturn it calling it fraudulent. This man has made accusations of voter fraud but when repeatedly asked to prove his allegations has stormed out of press conferences with no evidence. He is an example of an extremist who makes a lot of noise for Trump but has zero proof for his allegations. If you look carefully at his "watermark " ballot it would not even prevent the voter fraud he is accusing others of.

Wow what a surprose Sassy would attempt to pose him as bringing integrity to the ballot system.


https://blogforarizona.net/rep-mark-finchems-emails-show-he-was-deeply-involved-in-the-planning-of-january-6-maga-insurrection/

https://www.azmirror.com/2021/06/02/mark-finchem-was-much-closer-to-the-jan-6-insurrection-than-he-claimed/


https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/4/13/2025724/-Crazy-Stupid-Republican-of-the-Day-Mark-Finchem-2021-Update\


https://www.azfamily.com/news/politics/arizona_politics/mark-finchem-calls-for-decertification-of-2020-election-results/article_9059b516-2af5-11ec-bbc6-3b0b3083c682.html


https://recallfinchem.com/

https://www.pinalcentral.com/mark-finchem-storms-off-during-press-questioning/video_a5d888b2-2ebf-556d-bed4-c32f7545fbf0.html

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-endorses-arizona-sos-candidate-mark-finchem-self-proclaimed-member-oath-keepers-1628715

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/16/politics/trump-secretary-of-state-big-lie/index.html

So, you've found negative propaganda on Finchem. Does that negate the info I posted or did you even read it?

[SassyLady]

To start with disagreeing with Trump supporters who have no evidence of the allegations they make does not make me angry or rude lol.

Please do not tell me how I feel emotionally.

Next what does the comment I can not disprove unfounded allegations mean? That is illogical. I can not prove something does not exist and if you want to claim something and can't prove it, no I have no obligation to do anything other that to point out its baseless.

Next why are you telling me to move on when Trump supporters continue to lie and fabricate false allegations? Why would I stop when they continue to lie. Liars need to be called out and challenged when they threaten democracy and people for disagreeing with them.

You want to make false allegations about rigged elections and call Americans you do not know conspirators for not agreeing with you of course I would call that out as Nazi brown shirt tactics. Its exactly what it is. Trump is now no different than Mussolini or Hitler in his tactics and no I will not sit silently while he tries to orchestrate his way back in without calling him out as a fascist.

Have a nice day.

You have no evidence to support that fraud didn't happen. All you have is media propaganda saying it didn't happen. Anyone in their right mind knows Biden didn't get 80 million votes without fraud.

[SassyLady]

Of course I called you out. Where is proof of your false allegations. Now that you have made it about you, because all I asked was for proof, no I will NOT show any respect for people who falsely insult their fellow Americans or the basic democratic traditions of the US and make false unsubstantiated accusations accusing thousands upon thousands of Americans of engaging in voter conspiracy. I will call it out as disrespectful fascist thug behaviour.

Tell me, do you respect your fellow Americans including Republicans who exercised their right to vote against Trump? No of course not. You smear them all as conspirators. Its time extremist cult followers of Trump like you are called out for engaging in fascist strong arm tactics.. Put up or shut up with your false accusations.

If you can't stand the heat don't make the unsubstantiated allegations.

You are damn right I am calling you out.If people like me don't people like you will assure democracy is undermined and people who do not vote for your messiah get strong armed. Voter integrity? Where were you in 2016? Vote called the election rigged but when he was voted in with less than the popular vote and only the very electoral vote he called rigged where were you? Where were you when he got re-elected following up on the rigged voting? Not a peep until he lost the last election? Why?

Of course you are called out for that crass opportunistic argument.

No you get zero respect and get called out as a Brownshirt for such tactics. False allegations mean what? Where is your proof? Where do you get off undermining your election system and accuse your fellow Americans of being dishonest with no proof? It is reprehensible and does not make you a martyr victim for saying so, just a thug in my opinion.

What false allegations?

[Gunny]

To start with disagreeing with Trump supporters who have no evidence of the allegations they make does not make me angry or rude lol.

Please do not tell me how I feel emotionally.

Next what does the comment I can not disprove unfounded allegations mean? That is illogical. I can not prove something does not exist and if you want to claim something and can't prove it, no I have no obligation to do anything other that to point out its baseless.

Next why are you telling me to move on when Trump supporters continue to lie and fabricate false allegations? Why would I stop when they continue to lie. Liars need to be called out and challenged when they threaten democracy and people for disagreeing with them.

You want to make false allegations about rigged elections and call Americans you do not know conspirators for not agreeing with you of course I would call that out as Nazi brown shirt tactics. Its exactly what it is. Trump is now no different than Mussolini or Hitler in his tactics and no I will not sit silently while he tries to orchestrate his way back in without calling him out as a fascist.

Have a nice day.Don't be rude and I won't tell you that you are being rude. I have no idea regarding your state of emotion. Just your visible behavior.

Your response is WAY off track. Is not "the question" about statistics? Statistics require and have evidence to support them. If statistics do not support a free, fair and accountable election, then I'm questioning the statistics being presented to me. Especially when those statistics are being presented by a political party that isn't even honest when it is in its best interest to be.

If this election is so above board, beyond reproach and what have yo, there should be absolutely no reason to present the stats. There would also be no reason whatsoever for this very same political party to put any and all effort it can to obstruct any and all efforts made to ensure such statistics are made available, and close loopholes that were used to circumvent the system. Fact is, when there's shit all over your hands, I'm going to suspect you didn't use the TP.

The Dems have been trying to steal elections since 2000. They brought the issue up. Since 2000, not 2020 and nothing to do with Trump. I have called repeatedly each and every time the GOP has had the chance to fix the election system before the Dems got their crooked hands on it.

You can deny all you want, but the Dems took advantage of every loophole to include pulling some unprecedented crap like getting an extension for vote deadline in blue states. Where there's smoke there's fire. See if you can catch some smoke and use it for evidence :rolleyes:

Move on wasn't directed at you. Personally, I don't care what you do. You are a non-player in this game. For those that are, it's time to look forward to next election, not backward at a loss that doesn't sit well with most on the right. Drown in your own tears or do something about it. Move forward/on. That goes for Trump and anyone else still stuck in 2020.

[BoogyMan]

If people don't get out there and vote we will never get another chance to weed out the corruption.

[NightTrain]

If people don't get out there and vote we will never get another chance to weed out the corruption.


VA broke all records on turnout. I think it always a non-issue.

[jimnyc]

I also wanted to add, about things I have long posted already: I have long ago posted things proving all kinds of issues with machines and security. All kinds of fraud. I never said anything definitively would have overturned the election but we may never know.

At any rate, I neither take demands nor do I feel the need in the slightest way to prove damn thing to a Canadian ***. And I'll politely leave it at that. The past postings were there and still are.

[Mika-El]

I have proof, but I’m not showing it to you.

:laugh:





Childish response and to be expected.

[Mika-El]

I also wanted to add, about things I have long posted already: I have long ago posted things proving all kinds of issues with machines and security. All kinds of fraud. I never said anything definitively would have overturned the election but we may never know.

At any rate, I neither take demands nor do I feel the need in the slightest way to prove damn thing to a Canadian ***. And I'll politely leave it at that. The past postings were there and still are.

You have provided zero evidence of any election fraud.


What machines? What security? What fraud? If you provided evidence why make the statement " I never said anything definitively"?

Are you a little bit pregnant? Either you have evidence or you don't.

[Gunny]

You have provided zero evidence of any election fraud and neither have the test of the entourage. None of you Trump election.

Thus the petulant responses.

I call you out again. What machines? What security? What fraud? If it existed why make the statement " I never said anything definitively"?

Are you a little bit pregnant? Either you have evidence or you don't.Sure are angry for someone convinced of his own argument.

Election's over. Winner declared. Move on. Definitely not worth discussing with someone who doesn't listen to anyone but himself.

[jimnyc]

You have provided zero evidence of any election fraud.


What machines? What security? What fraud? If you provided evidence why make the statement " I never said anything definitively"?

Are you a little bit pregnant? Either you have evidence or you don't.

All been posted long ago, look it up. I haven't the slightest bit of care whether you do or not. I'm not repeating myself for someone who refuses to show a little respect and decency to others.

So either you have the ability to search or you don't.

[Mika-El]

Don't be rude and I won't tell you that you are being rude. I have no idea regarding your state of emotion. Just your visible behavior.

Your response is WAY off track. Is not "the question" about statistics? Statistics require and have evidence to support them. If statistics do not support a free, fair and accountable election, then I'm questioning the statistics being presented to me. Especially when those statistics are being presented by a political party that isn't even honest when it is in its best interest to be.

If this election is so above board, beyond reproach and what have yo, there should be absolutely no reason to present the stats. There would also be no reason whatsoever for this very same political party to put any and all effort it can to obstruct any and all efforts made to ensure such statistics are made available, and close loopholes that were used to circumvent the system. Fact is, when there's shit all over your hands, I'm going to suspect you didn't use the TP.

The Dems have been trying to steal elections since 2000. They brought the issue up. Since 2000, not 2020 and nothing to do with Trump. I have called repeatedly each and every time the GOP has had the chance to fix the election system before the Dems got their crooked hands on it.

You can deny all you want, but the Dems took advantage of every loophole to include pulling some unprecedented crap like getting an extension for vote deadline in blue states. Where there's smoke there's fire. See if you can catch some smoke and use it for evidence :rolleyes:

Move on wasn't directed at you. Personally, I don't care what you do. You are a non-player in this game. For those that are, it's time to look forward to next election, not backward at a loss that doesn't sit well with most on the right. Drown in your own tears or do something about it. Move forward/on. That goes for Trump and anyone else still stuck in 2020.

___________


With due respect, let me be as clear as possible. If you make an allegation I will ask you to prove it. Simple as that. That does not make me rude.You haven't. Now you claim you are missing stats? What stats? The results of the election and the votes are public domain-you disagree with them. They already exist you just do not like them because your candidate lost. If you claim they are false prove it,

No I cannot comment on anything you can't prove exists. Of course not. I can't disprove what you haven't proven. The fact you even suggest I do is absurd.

Next, anyone can read my posts and yours and the other posts. I am no more "ruder" than you or anyone else. The fact I disagree with you does not make me rude. The attempts to make this about me is a deflection from being unable to prove election fraud.

Please be clear, the fact is I challenged you and others to provide evidence of election fraud and you can't which then angers you and others as shown in your responses to me and that does not make me rude because I won't back down from pointing out there is no evidence.

Trying to deflect from the lack of evidence by trying to make this about me or Canada is bullshit.

As for you lecturing me about Democrats and denial who is denying what?

Who is denying Trump claimed the 2016 election was rigged but continue to deny his blatant contradiction of winning and then saying nothing until only shortly before the last election ?

Who is denying Trump incited Americans to engage in violence on Capital Hill?

Who denies their were weapons at Capital Hill, there was violence, and there were people calling for the murder of the US Vice President by hanging Pence?

Who denies Trump's phone calls telling REPUBLICANS at the state level to "find" votes?

Who omits/denies that there are as many Republicans as Democrats who called out Trump's unsubstantiated allegations?

Who denies it was Republican administrators who told Trump there was no fraud?

Who denies Russians colluded in the last election?

Who is denying what?

Next, I have two daughters who are US citizens and relatives who are Americans. Yah I care what happens to them and so someone telling me OI am anon player again is dealing in bullshit.

This bullshit I have no say because I am not American is absurd. I never argued I could vote in the US election. That doesn't make me a non player. Every damn person on this planet is a player. All of us are interconnected. Do you need another Hitler to explain why?

What the hell did your soldiers die for defeating Hitler for you or anyone to suggest the world is isolated in states that do not impact one another?

I find what Trump has done absolutely disrespectful to the fundamental freedom the US Military died for. Is it any wonder he insulted Colin POwell and John McCain on their deaths?

By the way I note I was temporarily banned with no explanation.


I come from holocaust survivors and cleaned up after a terrorist bombing.Gonna take more than a ban to intimidate me.

Ban away if need be.

Have a nice day.

[Gunny]

___________


With due respect, let me be as clear as possible. If you make an allegation I will ask you to prove it. Simple as that. That does not make me rude.You haven't. Now you claim you are missing stats? What stats? The results of the election and the votes are public domain-you disagree with them. They already exist you just do not like them because your candidate lost. If you claim they are false prove it,

No I cannot comment on anything you can't prove exists. Of course not. I can't disprove what you haven't proven. The fact you even suggest I do is absurd.

Next, anyone can read my posts and yours and the other posts. I am no more "ruder" than you or anyone else. The fact I disagree with you does not make me rude. The attempts to make this about me is a deflection from being unable to prove election fraud.

Please be clear, the fact is I challenged you and others to provide evidence of election fraud and you can't which then angers you and others as shown in your responses to me and that does not make me rude because I won't back down from pointing out there is no evidence.

Trying to deflect from the lack of evidence by trying to make this about me or Canada is bullshit.

As for you lecturing me about Democrats and denial who is denying what?

Who is denying Trump claimed the 2016 election was rigged but continue to deny his blatant contradiction of winning and then saying nothing until only shortly before the last election ?

Who is denying Trump incited Americans to engage in violence on Capital Hill?

Who denies their were weapons at Capital Hill, there was violence, and there were people calling for the murder of the US Vice President by hanging Pence?

Who denies Trump's phone calls telling REPUBLICANS at the state level to "find" votes?

Who omits/denies that there are as many Republicans as Democrats who called out Trump's unsubstantiated allegations?

Who denies it was Republican administrators who told Trump there was no fraud?

Who denies Russians colluded in the last election?

Who is denying what?

Next, I have two daughters who are US citizens and relatives who are Americans. Yah I care what happens to them and so someone telling me OI am anon player again is dealing in bullshit.

This bullshit I have no say because I am not American is absurd. I never argued I could vote in the US election. That doesn't make me a non player. Every damn person on this planet is a player. All of us are interconnected. Do you need another Hitler to explain why?

What the hell did your soldiers die for defeating Hitler for you or anyone to suggest the world is isolated in states that do not impact one another?

I find what Trump has done absolutely disrespectful to the fundamental freedom the US Military died for. Is it any wonder he insulted Colin POwell and John McCain on their deaths?

By the way I note I was temporarily banned with no explanation.


I come from holocaust survivors and cleaned up after a terrorist bombing.Gonna take more than a ban to intimidate me.

Ban away if need be.

Have a nice day.Angry that Trump can't prove his allegations? I'm angry that IN MY OPINION SINCE I CAN'T PROVE IT that his post election behavior cost the GOP the Senate. Angry over you playing the disingenuous, "prove it", leftist game? Nah. Disappointed. Thought you might be someone worth talking to. You're too hung up on Trump.

Who, btw, is only incidental to leftwingnut voter fraud in this country. I've bitched about it for decades. Not just 2020 and Donald Trump. Might help if you take a peek around the man at the actual issue(s).

Don't taunt the staff on this board. They won't all ignore it. You know who banned you. If you have a question about it you can feel free to PM any staff member to your liking. It won't be discussed on the public forum. That WILL get you banned.

[Russ]

Who is denying Trump claimed the 2016 election was rigged but continue to deny his blatant contradiction of winning and then saying nothing until only shortly before the last election ?

Trump didn't claim the 2016 election was rigged - he won the 2016 election. :rolleyes:



Who is denying Trump incited Americans to engage in violence on Capital Hill?

I am denying that. I watched a video of the entire Trump speech because of all the allegations, and he asked only for people to "peacefully" march over to the Capitol to make their protests known. He never asked them to be violent and never asked them to go inside.



Who denies Russians colluded in the last election?


I am. If Russians did anything it was just fake social media posts, which is no different than misleading statements made by all sorts of people during campaigns. And it pales in comparison to the Russian hoax that we now know that Hillary's campaign created, thanks to the Durham investigation.

[Gunny]

Trump didn't claim the 2016 election was rigged - he won the 2016 election. :rolleyes:



I am denying that. I watched a video of the entire Trump speech because of all the allegations, and he asked only for people to "peacefully" march over to the Capitol to make their protests known. He never asked them to be violent and never asked them to go inside.

Ditto. Mika-el can provide proof to substantiate his allegation.


I am. If Russians did anything it was just fake social media posts, which is no different than misleading statements made by all sorts of people during campaigns. And it pales in comparison to the Russian hoax that we now know that Hillary's campaign created, thanks to the Durham investigation.There's a thread on this very topic real close to the top on the board.

I am sure Mika-el can provide proof of Trump's collusion with Russia. I, on the other hand, am more than willing to provide enough proof to put Hillary Clinton in prison, just during the 2016 Presidential campaign.

Seems the Russian "collusion", as MANY of us stated at the time, finger points directly at Hitlery as well. I'll leave that for Durham to "prove".

[Mika-El]

Sure are angry for someone convinced of his own argument.

Election's over. Winner declared. Move on. Definitely not worth discussing with someone who doesn't listen to anyone but himself.


Uh no I am not the one sending "pissed off" responses to anyone lol. Just who is angry other than people sending me pissed off responses?

Why would asking questions make me angry? You project such emotions on me to deflect from the questions I asked and try make it about me. Its not about me, its about the lack of evidence I have called out which of courses pisses off people who want to advance conspiracy accusations they can't prove. The more I ask them for proof they can't provide, the angrier they get.

Lol so just who is angry?

Next, I will move on when Trump conspirators move on. If they do not move on I will challenge them.




Have a nice day.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Uh no I am not the one sending "pissed off" responses to anyone lol. Just who is angry other than people sending me pissed off responses?

Why would asking questions make me angry? You project such emotions on me to deflect from the questions I asked and try make it about me. Its not about me, its about the lack of evidence I have called out which of courses pisses off people who want to advance conspiracy accusations they can't prove. The more I ask them for proof they can't provide, the angrier they get.

Lol so just who is angry?

Next, I will move on when Trump conspirators move on. If they do not move on I will challenge them.




Have a nice day.

I have read a great many of your replies.
To that end, it strikes me that you are delusional and most definitely arrogant in your fantasies.
Could be that you are just another hate-Trump zealot. And are most definitely grossly quite ignorant of facts that refute your blathering bias, imho..
Other than that I say, have a great day- enjoy your fantasy world...-Tyr

[Mika-El]

There's a thread on this very topic real close to the top on the board.

I am sure Mika-el can provide proof of Trump's collusion with Russia. I, on the other hand, am more than willing to provide enough proof to put Hillary Clinton in prison, just during the 2016 Presidential campaign.

Seems the Russian "collusion", as MANY of us stated at the time, finger points directly at Hitlery as well. I'll leave that for Durham to "prove".

I have never defended Hilary Clinton. There is evidence that Hilary Clinton and Donald Trump are equally as questionable in their dealings.

Again trying to deflect from Trump's ties to Putin or his inability to prove any elections were rigged is pointless. I did not come on this thread defending Clinton in any way shape or manner. You on the other hand are using it to try deflect from Trump's questionable behaviour.

Clinton being a questionable and unethical individual does NOT negate or justify what Trump has done as you are well aware.

[Gunny]

I have never defended Hilary Clinton. There is evidence that Hilary Clinton and Donald Trump are equally as questionable in their dealings.

Again trying to deflect from Trump's ties to Putin or his inability to prove any elections were rigged is pointless. I did not come on this thread defending Clinton in any way shape or manner. You on the other hand are using it to try deflect from Trump's questionable behaviour.

Clinton being a questionable and unethical individual does NOT negate or justify what Trump has done as you are well aware.Incorrect. I do not defend Trump's "questionable" (in YOUR opinion) behavior. Nor am I going to. Every time you post this same, bullshit statement, all I can recall is all the shit that I and a couple others took for 4 years for being critical of him.

However, I am not going to sit here and listen to false accusations. I hold myself accountable to truth and fact, not your jaded political partisanship. Nor anyone else's for that matter.

[Mika-El]

I have read a great many of your replies.
To that end, it strikes me that you are delusional and most definitely arrogant in your fantasies.
Could be that you are just another hate-Trump zealot. And are most definitely grossly quite ignorant of facts that refute your blathering bias, imho..
Other than that I say, have a great day- enjoy your fantasy world...-Tyr

So again no debating the issue with evidence to show the vote was rigged just personal name calling because I ask for evidence.

All such responses do is indicate you have no evidence so deflect to attacking me personally.

[Mika-El]

Incorrect. I do not defend Trump's "questionable" (in YOUR opinion) behavior. Nor am I going to. Every time you post this same, bullshit statement, all I can recall is all the shit that I and a couple others took for 4 years for being critical of him.

However, I am not going to sit here and listen to false accusations. I hold myself accountable to truth and fact, not your jaded political partisanship. Nor anyone else's for that matter.

Gunny you lost any credibility with me on the above position. Your support of Trump on these posts and your responses to me speak to that support. You are trying to support Trump's rigged election argument, calling of Democrats "enemies" and supporting Trump.

Either you support Trump or you don't. Playing this position where you only support his good parts is like arguing you are a little bit pregnant. With due respect you know what responses you have supported on this thread.

Next, I know this forum has for the most part many Trump supporters. I knew that getting on to this particular thread. I fully expected disagreement and personal remarks.

I want you and all the people calling me personal remarks to understand, it doesn't deflect from the fact as to what Trump has done and the fact that to date you have zero evidence of any fixed election but Trump is continuing to claim that to set himself up in the next election with a platform to ignore any popular election results.

Have a nice day.

[Mika-El]

Russ you stated and I quote:

"Trump didn't claim the 2016 election was rigged - he won the 2016 election. :rolleyes:"

Of course he did.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/rigged-election-donald-trumps-long-history-of-polls-fraud-claims/articleshow/79038530.cms?from=mdr

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/trump-and-the-truth-the-rigged-election

https://www.factcheck.org/2016/10/trumps-bogus-voter-fraud-claims/

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37673797

Russ in regards to your comment as to the correlation of Trump's speech and the subsequent capial hill riots, you stated:


"I am denying that. I watched a video of the entire Trumpp speech because of all the allegations, and he asked only for people to "peacefully" march over to the Capitol to make their protests known. He never asked them to be violent and never asked them to go inside."

Yes the same way you deny he never claimed the 2016 election was rigged. I get it. You deny anything that does not suit your pro Trump views. The cause and effect is not difficult to grasp. The extent of how organized the event was and its ties to Trump are now being investigated. Yes I know in your world the Capital Hill insurrection was peaceful and had nothing to do with Trump.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/07/trump-incitement-inflammatory-rhetoric-capitol-riot

Next you stated:

"I am. If Russians did anything it was just fake social media posts, which is no different than misleading statements made by all sorts of people during campaigns. And it pales in comparison to the Russian hoax that we now know that Hillary's campaign created, thanks to the Durham investigation."

There are two distinct issues. If anyone has lied about Russian collusion one way or the other, they are liable for engaging in perjury and should be jailed. I ave never argued false accusations against Trump are acceptable. They are not. However to use them to deflect from what Trump actually did and the role his election team engaged in with Russia is pointless. Its now public domain. When Gunny asks I prove Russian collusion and Trump's tie in to it, he basically is saying like you, he will ignore what is now public domain.

I get it. If something doesn't suit your pro Trump partisan views, you pretend they do not exist and deflect from them.

See the difference is I refer to actual evidence when I state a position such as:

https://www.acslaw.org/projects/the-presidential-investigation-education-project/other-resources/key-findings-of-the-mueller-report/

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/07/a-misleading-message-on-muellers-conclusions/

I would ask you do the same. Can you do that?

I understand your subjective partisan support of Trump and Gunny's but when I challenge it, I explain why. I do not expect you to agree either.

Have a nice day.

[Gunny]

Gunny you lost any credibility with me on the above position. Your support of Trump on these posts and your responses to me speak to that support. You are trying to support Trump's rigged election argument, calling of Democrats "enemies" and supporting Trump.

Either you support Trump or you don't. Playing this position where you only support his good parts is like arguing you are a little bit pregnant. With due respect you know what responses you have supported on this thread.

Next, I know this forum has for the most part many Trump supporters. I knew that getting on to this particular thread. I fully expected disagreement and personal remarks.

I want you and all the people calling me personal remarks to understand, it doesn't deflect from the fact as to what Trump has done and the fact that to date you have zero evidence of any fixed election but Trump is continuing to claim that to set himself up in the next election with a platform to ignore any popular election results.

Have a nice day.Your inability to read what is there instead of what you want and your offensive attitude destroys any argument you might believe solely in your mind makes you right. Most notably is your insisting that because I agree there is election fraud that I'm on Trump's dick. Fuck you. I can't make my stance any clearer than I have and it supports no one's stance other than my own except by coincidence.

I don't need you nor anyone to think for me, nor tell me what I think. Especially what with your problem reading and comprehending the written word. Apparently the name Trump just fucks your brain to incoherent pieces.

Feel free to address me when you find your manners.

[jimnyc]

Gunny you lost any credibility with me on the above position.

Have a nice day.

Are folks supposed to give a crap that they don't reach credibility in your eyes? Or be upset that you somehow dismissed them with a good day?

Your BS makes me yawn and move to the next thread. Your type of dismissing everything else and falling head over heels in love with your own arguments and link have been here hundreds of times.

https://i.imgur.com/M8bVlyq.gif

[icansayit]

Your inability to read what is there instead of what you want and your offensive attitude destroys any argument you might believe solely in your mind makes you right. Most notably is your insisting that because I agree there is election fraud that I'm on Trump's dick. Fuck you. I can't make my stance any clearer than I have and it supports no one's stance other than my own except by coincidence.

I don't need you nor anyone to think for me, nor tell me what I think. Especially what with your problem reading and comprehending the written word. Apparently the name Trump just fucks your brain to incoherent pieces.

Feel free to address me when you find your manners.

Having someone with LESS CREDIBILITY than Joe Biden tell YOU and the rest of us How WE lost CREDIBILITY??? That's almost like saying "POLITICAL INTELLIGENCE".

[Mika-El]

No reason to be purposely disrespectful, and jumping on Americans, or Trump supporters or whatever your issue is.

Play games and you'll lose.

See you in 24.

Have a nice day.

I will now respond to this. This thread is full of disrespectful accusations against Americans which I challenged and now you claim is disrespectful to Americans? Really? Who is playing games. This is a forum full of Trump supporters speaking disrespectfully about their fellow Americans who they disagree with accusing them of engaging in voter fraud. Because I challenge that it makes me disrespectful? Lol.

The fact I call out all Trump supporters on this thread for making unsubstantiated allegations does not make me disrespectful. No I do not respect opinions of people who show disrespect of their fellow Americans but demand they be respected.

My words challenge partisan comments. Period. You are selective with the disrespect you see based on your own political views.

I respect the majority vote of all your Americans who said enough of Trump. Do you? That is and remains the issue as much as you try deflect it to me.

[Mika-El]

Are folks supposed to give a crap that they don't reach credibility in your eyes? Or be upset that you somehow dismissed them with a good day?

Your BS makes me yawn and move to the next thread. Your type of dismissing everything else and falling head over heels in love with your own arguments and link have been here hundreds of times.

https://i.imgur.com/M8bVlyq.gif

What did the above prove other than you are angry because I disagree with your opinions and you now make personal remarks? I am challenging opinions which is what people are supposed to do on a political forum?

Are you the person who asked me to show respect?

[Mika-El]

Your inability to read what is there instead of what you want and your offensive attitude destroys any argument you might believe solely in your mind makes you right. Most notably is your insisting that because I agree there is election fraud that I'm on Trump's dick. Fuck you. I can't make my stance any clearer than I have and it supports no one's stance other than my own except by coincidence.

I don't need you nor anyone to think for me, nor tell me what I think. Especially what with your problem reading and comprehending the written word. Apparently the name Trump just fucks your brain to incoherent pieces.

Feel free to address me when you find your manners.



First off anyone can read my posts. I have said nothing disrespectful to you. The fact that you disagree with my opinions and now take that disagreement as disrespect is your attempt to make this personal. I have not and will not. You have accused me of not reading what is there. In fact this is what I read from you and I have directly responded to:

Post 9

I voted for Trump twice. I supported him while he was President. I even agree the system itself was rigged against him and one of the reasons he lost. Voter fraud could be a reason but so far there's been no "A-HA! GOTCHA" smoking gun to prove anything.


Post 13

Much as I try not to state this, I TOLD YOU SO. Back in 2016-17 when I saw how the Dems/left were acting I stated "Do something about election accountability NOW or the Dems will do whatever they have to to steal the next election and there will be no reelection".



Post 14

You let me count my votes 5 days after yours are locked, sealed and done, I'll win every time too.

Have they audited any of the states that pulled THAT? No



Post 24

A far as voter fraud goes, any that exists as part of the system has been around since before 2020.



Post46

The Dems made a more concerted effort than usual to cheat last election not just because of Trump, but also because COVID and lockdown presented the opportunity for all the things mentioned previously in this thread.



Post 47

The Democratic Party IS the enemy of the US Constitution.

There are a lot of people, on our left, who don't belong here and don't deserve the rights and freedom a lot of people have bled and died for. Putin and Ping Pong can have them


Post 54


Spoken like a true leftist. Demanding proof when of course, there isn't going to be any.

To be clear, I am not defending Trump or his allegations. I AM defending that voter fraud exists within the system, and in some instances the Dems DID twist the rules as best they could to allow maximum people to vote, legally or not.

The left has also obstructed and fought every single proposal/law that in any way tightened voter/vote accountability


Post 84
I supported Trump as President because generally, he did some good things/things I agreed with.

When I didn't, I stated such and caught a bunch of flak over it, as did anyone else on this board that stated anything negative about Trump. It also is REAL hard to jump on the bandwagon of Trump detractors when they lied, made false allegations, complete with 2 year long witch hunt and attempts at impeachment. All of that was unnecessary BS and pretty much put a lot of people in "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" category. The left put me in the position of defending Trump far more than I would have myself.

So you can call me al lot of things, but lumping me in with the Trump or nobody crowd isn't going to cut it, and does not reflect my opinion.


Based on the above words I have challenged you calling your fellow Americans the enemy, making all kinds of statements accusing your fellow Americans you disagree with politically of unsubstantiated actions and lumping them all and myself as leftists. Its interesting you lump me as a leftist but accuse me of calling you a Trump supporter. You are. You said so. You explain but you don't like him as well but since you hate Democrats more you support him. So what is with this yah I support him but not really crap?

I also called you out because you advance allegations of voter fraud with no proof.

All I have asked is that all of you who support Trump on this thread back up what you say. You can't and say you can't and you call me out for telling you without proof, you have no argument?

You call me a leftist because I ask for evidence? No you know damn well I am a lawyer and law professor and when I ask for evidence it is because I believe in the rule of law? Do you? The law says prove what you allege for it to be a legal fact.

You now lower yourself to telling me to fuck off. You really think that establishes credibility and makes your point?

All of the things you tell me to fuck off over about what you claim I said about you is based solely on what you said in writing nothing else.

Please do not tell me you did not write the posts above advancing voter fraud, calling all Democrats the enemy and accusing Democrats of engaging in voter fraud, all with zero proof. That is what I challenged and telling me to fuck off won't change what you said.

It does show though that like many others you demand respect while telling me to fuck off.

Of course that is absurd.

I am not accusing you of anything you did not write. I am stating you have no proof of voter fraud and I totally disagree and challenge your disrespectful comments about your fellow Americans you disagree with politically.

Have a nice day.

[icansayit]

First off anyone can read my posts. I have said nothing disrespectful to you. The fact that you disagree with my opinions and now take that disagreement as disrespect is your attempt to make this personal. I have not and will not. You have accused me of not reading what is there. In fact this is what I read from you and I have directly responded to:

Post 9

I voted for Trump twice. I supported him while he was President. I even agree the system itself was rigged against him and one of the reasons he lost. Voter fraud could be a reason but so far there's been no "A-HA! GOTCHA" smoking gun to prove anything.


Post 13

Much as I try not to state this, I TOLD YOU SO. Back in 2016-17 when I saw how the Dems/left were acting I stated "Do something about election accountability NOW or the Dems will do whatever they have to to steal the next election and there will be no reelection".



Post 14

You let me count my votes 5 days after yours are locked, sealed and done, I'll win every time too.

Have they audited any of the states that pulled THAT? No



Post 24

A far as voter fraud goes, any that exists as part of the system has been around since before 2020.



Post46

The Dems made a more concerted effort than usual to cheat last election not just because of Trump, but also because COVID and lockdown presented the opportunity for all the things mentioned previously in this thread.



Post 47

The Democratic Party IS the enemy of the US Constitution.

There are a lot of people, on our left, who don't belong here and don't deserve the rights and freedom a lot of people have bled and died for. Putin and Ping Pong can have them


Post 54


Spoken like a true leftist. Demanding proof when of course, there isn't going to be any.

To be clear, I am not defending Trump or his allegations. I AM defending that voter fraud exists within the system, and in some instances the Dems DID twist the rules as best they could to allow maximum people to vote, legally or not.

The left has also obstructed and fought every single proposal/law that in any way tightened voter/vote accountability


Post 84
I supported Trump as President because generally, he did some good things/things I agreed with.

When I didn't, I stated such and caught a bunch of flak over it, as did anyone else on this board that stated anything negative about Trump. It also is REAL hard to jump on the bandwagon of Trump detractors when they lied, made false allegations, complete with 2 year long witch hunt and attempts at impeachment. All of that was unnecessary BS and pretty much put a lot of people in "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" category. The left put me in the position of defending Trump far more than I would have myself.

So you can call me al lot of things, but lumping me in with the Trump or nobody crowd isn't going to cut it, and does not reflect my opinion.


Based on the above words I have challenged you calling your fellow Americans the enemy, making all kinds of statements accusing your fellow Americans you disagree with politically of unsubstantiated actions and lumping them all and myself as leftists. Its interesting you lump me as a leftist but accuse me of calling you a Trump supporter. You are. You said so. You explain but you don't like him as well but since you hate Democrats more you support him. So what is with this yah I support him but not really crap?

I also called you out because you advance allegations of voter fraud with no proof.

All I have asked is that all of you who support Trump on this thread back up what you say. You can't and say you can't and you call me out for telling you without proof, you have no argument?

You call me a leftist because I ask for evidence? No you know damn well I am a lawyer and law professor and when I ask for evidence it is because I believe in the rule of law? Do you? The law says prove what you allege for it to be a legal fact.

You now lower yourself to telling me to fuck off. You really think that establishes credibility and makes your point?

All of the things you tell me to fuck off over about what you claim I said about you is based solely on what you said in writing nothing else.

Please do not tell me you did not write the posts above advancing voter fraud, calling all Democrats the enemy and accusing Democrats of engaging in voter fraud, all with zero proof. That is what I challenged and telling me to fuck off won't change what you said.

It does show though that like many others you demand respect while telling me to fuck off.

Of course that is absurd.

I am not accusing you of anything you did not write. I am stating you have no proof of voter fraud and I totally disagree and challenge your disrespectful comments about your fellow Americans you disagree with politically.

Have a nice day.


To come here with such a long list of defensive diatribe rants to prove otherwise. So I will happily be proud to award you this....https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/3/dont-like-me-piss-off-problem-solved-jamie-iaconis.jpg

[jimnyc]

I will now respond to this. This thread is full of disrespectful accusations against Americans which I challenged and now you claim is disrespectful to Americans? Really? Who is playing games. This is a forum full of Trump supporters speaking disrespectfully about their fellow Americans who they disagree with accusing them of engaging in voter fraud. Because I challenge that it makes me disrespectful? Lol.

The fact I call out all Trump supporters on this thread for making unsubstantiated allegations does not make me disrespectful. No I do not respect opinions of people who show disrespect of their fellow Americans but demand they be respected.

My words challenge partisan comments. Period. You are selective with the disrespect you see based on your own political views.

I respect the majority vote of all your Americans who said enough of Trump. Do you? That is and remains the issue as much as you try deflect it to me.

I told you how many times to do a simple search? Incapable of doing so? Rather than call out, do a search. I'm not gonna rehash crap at your demand.

As a matter of fact, this subject has been discussed ad nauseam and you can search and read if interested.

\thread and topic closed

Have a nice day though!