".....Ask for COVID vaccine proof, face a $5,000 fine in Florida"

[LongTermGuy]

:salute:

"Florida will start issuing $5,000 fines to businesses, schools and government agencies that require people to show proof of a COVID-19 vaccination.
Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis signed a bill earlier this year that banned vaccine passports."
https://www.local10.com/resizer/BuStblCANZUir66ZiFgtcJodVv0=/800x529/smart/filters:format(jpeg):strip_exif(true):strip_icc(tr ue):no_upscale(true):quality(65)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/gmg/3L3T3LZESNCJ7A7TSWODNHXUG4.jpg



https://www.local10.com/news/florida/2021/09/02/ask-for-covid-vaccine-proof-face-a-5000-fine-in-florida/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=snd&utm_content=wplg10

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

:salute:

"Florida will start issuing $5,000 fines to businesses, schools and government agencies that require people to show proof of a COVID-19 vaccination.
Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis signed a bill earlier this year that banned vaccine passports."
https://www.local10.com/resizer/BuStblCANZUir66ZiFgtcJodVv0=/800x529/smart/filters:format(jpeg):strip_exif(true):strip_icc(tr ue):no_upscale(true):quality(65)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/gmg/3L3T3LZESNCJ7A7TSWODNHXUG4.jpg



https://www.local10.com/news/florida/2021/09/02/ask-for-covid-vaccine-proof-face-a-5000-fine-in-florida/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=snd&utm_content=wplg10

Finally some much needed action against this Nazi push by the treasonous dem/lib/leftist led Feds....=== :beer: :saluting2:

They and their damn ffkking-- "" papers please"" with the german accent converted to dummy-scum dem english...--Tyr


https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/the-terezin-memorial-was-a-medieval-military-fortress-that-was-used-picture-id923498038?k=20&m=923498038&s=612x612&w=0&h=fbHXfbkueCDiKGkYpOnVuXi4GO-DzgkPw1ypexszngo=

[fj1200]

"Florida will start issuing $5,000 fines to businesses, ... that require people to show proof of a COVID-19 vaccination.
Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis signed a bill earlier this year that banned vaccine passports."


I'm sure the businesses part at the very least won't stand up. Property rights and all.

[LongTermGuy]

I'm sure the businesses part at the very least won't stand up. Property rights and all.


Im sure we will see..

[revelarts]

I'm sure the businesses part at the very least won't stand up. Property rights and all.

Property rights?
Ok So Are customers or employees "property?"
you got to do better than that.
What law or right give any business the power to demand someone take medications FJ?

[Juicer66]

It's all about mass sentiment building , maturing and then erupting .

When the tilt moment arrives , discussions points disappear .

Without a successful revolution the USA becomes a third world power block , ridiculed for generations .

[Gunny]

Property rights?
Ok So Are customers or employees "property?"
you got to do better than that.
What law or right give any business the power to demand someone take medications FJ?What law says owners/employers can't protect their work environment and employees as they see fit?

The problem I see is those pushing so damned hard against this are going to force the government to choose, and we already know which way they go. So all you fighting for your "Right" to do whatever the Hell you want to society so long as it suits you are going to be THE reason it gets turned into law.

And yes, that IS what it amounts to: placing your individual "Rights" over the collective Rights of the people to be protected by the government.

I would just as soon it not get pushed that far that it becomes law.

[revelarts]

What law says owners/employers can't protect their work environment and employees as they see fit?
The problem I see is those pushing so damned hard against this are going to force the government to choose, and we already know which way they go. So all you fighting for your "Right" to do whatever the Hell you want to society so long as it suits you are going to be THE reason it gets turned into law.
And yes, that IS what it amounts to: placing your individual "Rights" over the collective Rights of the people to be protected by the government.
I would just as soon it not get pushed that far that it becomes law.
"...And yes, that IS what it amounts to: placing your individual "Rights" over the collective Rights of the people to be protected by the government...."
Isn't that exactly the same rational those use that want to take people's guns?
So, Are gun rights the only ones we should speak up about?
Or should we just allow whatever the government and corporations decide because the Government/Big Biz are gonna win anyway since some people are afraid?

[SassyLady]

Hey .. if a business wants to ask for covid Vax card they should also ask to see all the other vaccines we've taken. Why just this one?

And, will that lead to the vaccinated demanding to see staff Vax cards? What ever happened to HIPPA?

[Gunny]

"...And yes, that IS what it amounts to: placing your individual "Rights" over the collective Rights of the people to be protected by the government...."
Isn't that exactly the same rational those use that want to take people's guns?
So, Are gun rights the only ones we should speak up about?
Or should we just allow whatever the government and corporations decide because the Government/Big Biz are gonna win anyway since some people are afraid?
Never mind. This is just going to start a fight.

[LongTermGuy]

Hey .. if a business wants to ask for covid Vax card they should also ask to see all the other vaccines we've taken. Why just this one?

And, will that lead to the vaccinated demanding to see staff Vax cards? What ever happened to HIPPA?


Agree Sassy..but why stop there...

...ask if someone is gay..ask if they have a criminal record...ask if they ever had a DUI...ask what political party one belongs to...etc..etc...

It could go on and on...Good for FLA!! Stop it now...

[Gunny]

Agree Sassy..but why stop there...

...ask if someone is gay..ask if they have a criminal record...ask if they ever had a DUI...ask what political party one belongs to...etc..etc...

It could go on and on...Good for FLA!! Stop it now...Ask if they are legal citizens registered to vote :rolleyes:

Y'll can have this thread. As I stated above, this is just going to start a fight.

[LongTermGuy]

Ask if they are legal citizens registered to vote :rolleyes:

Y'll can have this thread. As I stated above, this is just going to start a fight.



True...^^^

...and...Legal citizens had a lot of their votes Thrown in the garbage last election...


the left wont stop fighting..neither should we...relax Gunny all is well...we love ya buddy...:salute:

Patriots are born to fight...because they are forced to...



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-TvZ-_VEAAX1PS?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Black Diamond]

"...And yes, that IS what it amounts to: placing your individual "Rights" over the collective Rights of the people to be protected by the government...."
Isn't that exactly the same rational those use that want to take people's guns?
So, Are gun rights the only ones we should speak up about?
Or should we just allow whatever the government and corporations decide because the Government/Big Biz are gonna win anyway since some people are afraid?

Yeah I hope I am not too late to the party. But should employers be allowed to demand access to my health records? I feel that a Vax card would fall under that.

[Black Diamond]

Never mind. This is just going to start a fight.

How? (hands out shaking my head shrugging)

[fj1200]

Property rights?
Ok So Are customers or employees "property?"
you got to do better than that.
What law or right give any business the power to demand someone take medications FJ?

This thread as I'm reading it is an apparent attempt to stop businesses et al from demanding proof of the covid vaccine. Government shouldn't have the ability to tell a business what to do on their private property. If you're going to walk into a business you should be prepared to meet their requirement. And no, no person is property; it's what they do on a business owner's property.

Extending that, businesses should also have the right to require employees to take certain measures. Vaccine, mask, etc.

[fj1200]

Hey .. if a business wants to ask for covid Vax card they should also ask to see all the other vaccines we've taken. Why just this one?

And, will that lead to the vaccinated demanding to see staff Vax cards? What ever happened to HIPPA?

It's been in the news.

[Black Diamond]

My wife was required to get a flu shot working in the emergency room as a nurse. There *may* be precedence here. I agree employees are not property of the employer. They are, at this point anyway, free to leave at any time.

[Black Diamond]

It's been in the news.

I don't remember anything like this with H1N1. Other than my wife was required to get the shot for it working in health care.

[fj1200]

^^A difference between a medical professional and a run of the mill business.

[fj1200]

I don't remember anything like this with H1N1. Other than my wife was required to get the shot for it working in health care.

I don't recall H1N1 doing anything like this.

[Black Diamond]

^^A difference between a medical professional and a run of the mill business.

I think that would be pointed out very quickly.

[Black Diamond]

I don't recall H1N1 doing anything like this.

What precedent is this setting?

[fj1200]

What precedent is this setting?

The "article" was so poorly written it's hard to tell. But it seems the government wants the ability to tell private business and local-er governments/schools what to do.

[icansayit]

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41qUUoeLrOS.jpg
https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/1984/summary/
Plot Overview
Summary Plot Overview
Winston Smith is a low-ranking member of the ruling Party in London, in the nation of Oceania. Everywhere Winston goes, even his own home, the Party watches him through telescreens; everywhere he looks he sees the face of the Party’s seemingly omniscient leader, a figure known only as Big Brother. The Party controls everything in Oceania, even the people’s history and language. Currently, the Party is forcing the implementation of an invented language called Newspeak, which attempts to prevent political rebellion by eliminating all words related to it. Even thinking rebellious thoughts is illegal. Such thoughtcrime is, in fact, the worst of all crimes.

It doesn't take long to see what is presently happening IN OUR NATION TODAY. Look at the BOLDED sentence above. SOUND FAMILIAR???

[revelarts]

This thread as I'm reading it is an apparent attempt to stop businesses et al from demanding proof of the covid vaccine.
Yes exactly, people's rights to their personal medical information and their own health care, trump imaginary corporate rights.
In a good republic that is.


Government shouldn't have the ability to tell a business what to do on their private property.
A business shouldn't have the ability to tell a person what to put in their bodies.



If you're going to walk into a business you should be prepared to meet their requirement. And no, no person is property; it's what they do on a business owner's property.
Transact business or work a job. is what people want to do on a business owner's property.
And making a requirement of a Vaccine before doing biz is wrong headed scientifically (most people don't need um and vaccines are not the only alt), morally (invasion of privacy and human right), socially (creates a discriminated sub-class) , and business wise (it reduces the number of potential customers).
As well as sets up a HORRIFIC precedent.
which I suspect You and many other don't care about becasue Covid has filled people's minds with fear so they can't see past it.
If a Biz can deny service until they see proof of Vaccine Cover what else can they demand for "their safety"?
LTG mentioned several other items Proof of citizenship, other vaccine records, criminal records, political party/ideas.
With today's climate of fear and BSery a biz could LOOK at someone and think they are "dangerous" for various reasons (their WHITE! Their BLACK! they look Illegal!) and demand some supposed form of proof they are not.

And eye rolling and won't make this go away.
I warned that the "war on terror" tools would be turned on American citizens and , baddabing badda boom here we are Homeland security is on the trail of Domestic terrorist who voted for Trump, and questions elections, who are going to blow up and take over America!
the Chinese already run a Social credit system that favors or blocks Citizens from buying selling and various private and public serives based on compliance with certain norms. oligrac... I mean Business... would love to have that here.



Extending that, businesses should also have the right to require employees to take certain measures. Vaccine, mask, etc.
really?
OK, Let's put it this way.
What medications can't businesses require employees to take... for safety... or heck... their insurance. can't have people walking in or working that might be a danger to the bottom line. Since gov't cant tell biz what to do, right?

And As Sassy mentioned doesn't HIPPA block Employers from even KNOWING what medications employees take?
"Should" HIPAA be Scraped because it's a business owners property and they have RIGHT to know and FORCE/Require people take medications that are good for the business?
....
Also How about this.
If a biz does have a "right" to require a customer or employee to have a vaccine.
Does the employer take full responsibility for any injury from those vaccines?
Or does the RIGHT to pay for injury somehow magically fall on the gov't?
Or the vaccine maker, even though the biz was the one that REQUIRED it's use?

do responsibilities come with "property rights" or just rights?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Yes exactly, people's rights to their personal medical information and their own health care, trump imaginary corporate rights.
In a good republic that is.


A business shouldn't have the ability to tell a person what to put in their bodies.


Transact business or work a job. is what people want to do on a business owner's property.
And making a requirement of a Vaccine before doing biz is wrong headed scientifically (most people don't need um and vaccines are not the only alt), morally (invasion of privacy and human right), socially (creates a discriminated sub-class) , and business wise (it reduces the number of potential customers).
As well as sets up a HORRIFIC precedent.
which I suspect You and many other don't care about becasue Covid has filled people's minds with fear so they can't see past it.
If a Biz can deny service until they see proof of Vaccine Cover what else can they demand for "their safety"?
LTG mentioned several other items Proof of citizenship, other vaccine records, criminal records, political party/ideas.
With today's climate of fear and BSery a biz could LOOK at someone and think they are "dangerous" for various reasons (their WHITE! Their BLACK! they look Illegal!) and demand some supposed form of proof they are not.

And eye rolling and won't make this go away.
I warned that the "war on terror" tools would be turned on American citizens and , baddabing badda boom here we are Homeland security is on the trail of Domestic terrorist who voted for Trump, and questions elections, who are going to blow up and take over America!
the Chinese already run a Social credit system that favors or blocks Citizens from buying selling and various private and public serives based on compliance with certain norms. oligrac... I mean Business... would love to have that here.


really?
OK, Let's put it this way.
What medications can't businesses require employees to take... for safety... or heck... their insurance. can't have people walking in or working that might be a danger to the bottom line. Since gov't cant tell biz what to do, right?

And As Sassy mentioned doesn't HIPPA block Employers from even KNOWING what medications employees take?
"Should" HIPAA be Scraped because it's a business owners property and they have RIGHT to know and FORCE/Require people take medications that are good for the business?
....
Also How about this.
If a biz does have a "right" to require a customer or employee to have a vaccine.
Does the employer take full responsibility for any injury from those vaccines?
Or does the RIGHT to pay for injury somehow magically fall on the gov't?
Or the vaccine maker, even though the biz was the one that REQUIRED it's use?

do responsibilities come with "property rights" or just rights?

Careful rev- or else you may cause fj to blow a fuse..
To me it is going to be very interesting to see if fj just ignores your questions that demand more than just a short, curt and false flag type of reply.
As I've seen fj do over the years so often.
Yes sir, this will require fj to do a bit more than the very shortest replies that fj can muster.....

I mean fj is fully invested in whatever can and will cleverly attack "we dreaded and monstrous conservatives"-or "we that are blinded by patriotism" or "we that practice a faith" that is not -- ideologically leftist based....
I just hope that you do not get his favorite little avoidance reply-- "" :rolleyes: "".....---Tyr

[fj1200]

Pardon my short answers, I shouldn't have read this at 6:30 in the morning. The Homeland Security and the Chinese references threw me off.


Yes exactly, people's rights to their personal medical information and their own health care, trump imaginary corporate rights.
In a good republic that is.

I think we're getting ahead of ourselves on a poorly written story. You have the option of not going in to the store.


A business shouldn't have the ability to tell a person what to put in their bodies.

Correct. But they don't have to let you in the door.


Transact business or work a job. is what people want to do on a business owner's property.
And making a requirement of a Vaccine before doing biz is wrong headed scientifically (most people don't need um and vaccines are not the only alt), morally (invasion of privacy and human right), socially (creates a discriminated sub-class) , and business wise (it reduces the number of potential customers).
As well as sets up a HORRIFIC precedent.
which I suspect You and many other don't care about becasue Covid has filled people's minds with fear so they can't see past it.
If a Biz can deny service until they see proof of Vaccine Cover what else can they demand for "their safety"?
LTG mentioned several other items Proof of citizenship, other vaccine records, criminal records, political party/ideas.
With today's climate of fear and BSery a biz could LOOK at someone and think they are "dangerous" for various reasons (their WHITE! Their BLACK! they look Illegal!) and demand some supposed form of proof they are not.

And eye rolling and won't make this go away.
I warned that the "war on terror" tools would be turned on American citizens and , baddabing badda boom here we are Homeland security is on the trail of Domestic terrorist who voted for Trump, and questions elections, who are going to blow up and take over America!
the Chinese already run a Social credit system that favors or blocks Citizens from buying selling and various private and public serives based on compliance with certain norms. oligrac... I mean Business... would love to have that here.

We can argue about vaccines all day. And we have.


really?
OK, Let's put it this way.
What medications can't businesses require employees to take... for safety... or heck... their insurance. can't have people walking in or working that might be a danger to the bottom line. Since gov't cant tell biz what to do, right?

And As Sassy mentioned doesn't HIPPA block Employers from even KNOWING what medications employees take?
"Should" HIPAA be Scraped because it's a business owners property and they have RIGHT to know and FORCE/Require people take medications that are good for the business?
....
Also How about this.
If a biz does have a "right" to require a customer or employee to have a vaccine.
Does the employer take full responsibility for any injury from those vaccines?
Or does the RIGHT to pay for injury somehow magically fall on the gov't?
Or the vaccine maker, even though the biz was the one that REQUIRED it's use?

do responsibilities come with "property rights" or just rights?

I think when all of this covid is behind us I don't think we're going to be talking about any real precedent happening here. But the point I was making in this thread is that it is also government overreach for them to decide to fine a business owner $5,000 for how they have chose to run their business.

[fj1200]

Careful rev- or else you may cause fj to blow a fuse..
To me it is going to be very interesting to see if fj just ignores your questions that demand more than just a short, curt and false flag type of reply.
As I've seen fj do over the years so often.
Yes sir, this will require fj to do a bit more than the very shortest replies that fj can muster.....

I mean fj is fully invested in whatever can and will cleverly attack "we dreaded and monstrous conservatives"-or "we that are blinded by patriotism" or "we that practice a faith" that is not -- ideologically leftist based....
I just hope that you do not get his favorite little avoidance reply-- "" :rolleyes: "".....---Tyr

You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

[Gunny]

How? (hands out shaking my head shrugging)Fair question. Answer: Due to a lack of paying attention, I was outside yesterday going on a run, then mowing/trimming up the lawn. After the fact I happened to run across the weather. 97 feels like 106 heat advisory. Didn't bother me at the time, but it did exhaust me. Not exactly a teenager anymore :)

I made the decision when I realized I was exhausted and in a shitty, intolerant mood that it would be in the best interest of the whole that the individual just take his ass to bed. Forcing everyone to suffer because the individual is in a pissy mood is not how I roll. It's called consideration for those around you and how individual, self-centered decisions can affect everyone around you.

It was my choice :)

[Abbey Marie]

Haven’t our military personnel been required to get all sorts of vaccines for a long time?

My school is requiring proof of COVID vaccination in order to attend in-person classes. I decided to just continue with Zoom classes for now, though.

[Gunny]

Haven’t our military personnel been required to get all sorts of vaccines for a long time?

My school is requiring proof of COVID vaccination in order to attend in-person classes. I decided to just continue with Zoom classes for now, though.There have always been that one or two clowns that can't go with the program. Never have figured out how they got through boot camp and/or sent overseas. You get on line and get your shots. Period. If you refused, you got busted and spent the rest of your time handing out towels at the gym or picking up trash on the side of the road. Nobody's got time for that individualistic BS in real time in the Corps. You're part of a team that functions on teamwork, not individual desire. Go deliver pizzas and enjoy your "freedom" you won't pay for but are more than willing to let the rest of the team ante up.

[icansayit]

OVERVIEW OF THE PRIVACY ACT OF 1974



A. The "No Disclosure Without Consent" Rule

“No agency shall disclose any record which is contained in a system of records by any means of communication to any person, or to another agency, except pursuant to a written request by, or with the prior written consent of, the individual to whom the record pertains [subject to 12 exceptions].” 5 U.S.C. § 552a(b).
https://www.justice.gov/archives/opcl/conditions-disclosure-third-parties
Comment:

Federal officials handling personal information are “bound by the Privacy Act not to disclose any personal information and to take certain precautions to keep personal information confidential.”

[JakeStarkey]

That bill is dead in the courts.

[LongTermGuy]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-Zg98IVQAAD2rJ?format=jpg&name=large

[JakeStarkey]

Haven’t our military personnel been required to get all sorts of vaccines for a long time?

My school is requiring proof of COVID vaccination in order to attend in-person classes. I decided to just continue with Zoom classes for now, though.

Your choice responsibly made. Well done.

[JakeStarkey]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-Zg98IVQAAD2rJ?format=jpg&name=large

... which real folks are doing to the anti-vax sickos.

[LongTermGuy]

... which real folks are doing to the anti-vax sickos.



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-XUT27X0B4agHi?format=jpg&name=900x900

[LongTermGuy]

`

.......

[revelarts]

...I think when all of this covid is behind us I don't think we're going to be talking about any real precedent happening here. ....

Ok, got any ETA on when Covid will be "behind us"?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Ok, got any ETA on when Covid will be "behind us"?

I do, but no specific date but a general idea.
It will be behind us when the dem party decides they have gotten what they wanted with the propaganda -and--
THEY HAVE ACCOMPLISHED THE FEAR DRIVEN CHANGES THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO MAKE WITH IT

Changes that their "owners decree"-the globalists...----Tyr

[Juicer66]

... which real folks are doing to the anti-vax sickos.


Come round here and say that to my face and you will be multi jabbed in so many places that all your hot air will be dispersed .

And as the Covid hoax is collapsing, I think an extra few head and body kicks will warm you up before you are thrown in to one of the Vaxxed Camps when the clever NonVaxxed will be be allowed to stand outside at

weekends , to laugh , jeer and pelt you with excrement . A minimum punishment for all Compliance Gullibles . :cool:

[revelarts]

Ok, got any ETA on when Covid will be "behind us"?


I do, but no specific date but a general idea.
It will be behind us when the dem party decides they have gotten what they wanted with the propaganda -and--
THEY HAVE ACCOMPLISHED THE FEAR DRIVEN CHANGES THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO MAKE WITH IT

Changes that their "owners decree"-the globalists...----Tyr
A tool like this is too good.
Covid or A VARIANT! or some other bio-threat will be behind us on the 12th of Never.
Just like "the war terror".
Between the 2 of them every human right can be striped in the name of "safety".

[revelarts]

Haven’t our military personnel been required to get all sorts of vaccines for a long time?

My school is requiring proof of COVID vaccination in order to attend in-person classes. I decided to just continue with Zoom classes for now, though.

U.S. Citizen have not signed their human rights away to the U.S. Gov't.. Citizens don't take orders from the gov't, it's supposed to be the other way around.
My daughter went back to college and they wanted all vaccinated as well, but at least gave medical and religious exemptions... with testing.
several lawyers are fighting the madn... mandates

[icansayit]

Ok, got any ETA on when Covid will be "behind us"?


As long as the present members of the Democrat party are in Congress, and Biden is still taking up space in the White House Basement And ELDER-CARE Center where nothing but ICE CREAM IS SERVED....3 times a day between DIAPER changes.

The DNC and DEMS Need COVID to stay around as their EXTORTION and BRIBERY scandals can persist to FOOL everybody who happily voted for SLEEPY and FRIENDS.;)

[fj1200]

Ok, got any ETA on when Covid will be "behind us"?

I wish I knew but when it's gone I don't foresee any lasting overreach.


I do, but no specific date but a general idea.
It will be behind us when the dem party decides they have gotten what they wanted with the propaganda -and--
THEY HAVE ACCOMPLISHED THE FEAR DRIVEN CHANGES THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO MAKE WITH IT

Changes that their "owners decree"-the globalists...----Tyr

Ah yes, those unnamed boogey men. What fear driven changes do they want?

[SassyLady]

Ah yes, those unnamed boogey men. What fear driven changes do they want?

Do you not feel some of your liberties have been taken away?

[fj1200]

If any have I think the long-term issues are nil.

[LongTermGuy]

If any have I think the long-term issues are nil.

:laugh:

[SassyLady]

If any have I think the long-term issues are nil.
I guess I'm more libertarian than you.

[fj1200]

I guess I'm more libertarian than you.

OK but I didn't realize you wanted a listing of all the liberties we've ever lost in the US. I was commenting on losing liberties because of covid.

[SassyLady]

OK but I didn't realize you wanted a listing of all the liberties we've ever lost in the US. I was commenting on losing liberties because of covid.
Well, yeah, that's what I was talking about. How do you feel about the liberties you've lost due to covid? Or the liberties that are currently being challenged?

One doesn't have to have experienced loss of liberties to be a liberterian. It's the idea of losing liberties that is influential.

If you can't see the ever encroaching loss of liberties because of covid you aren't paying attention.

[fj1200]

Well, yeah, that's what I was talking about. How do you feel about the liberties you've lost due to covid? Or the liberties that are currently being challenged?

One doesn't have to have experienced loss of liberties to be a liberterian. It's the idea of losing liberties that is influential.

If you can't see the ever encroaching loss of liberties because of covid you aren't paying attention.

My comment is long term covid related; nil.

[revelarts]

I'm sure the businesses part at the very least won't stand up. Property rights and all.

This thread as I'm reading it is an apparent attempt to stop businesses et al from demanding proof of the covid vaccine. Government shouldn't have the ability to tell a business what to do on their private property. If you're going to walk into a business you should be prepared to meet their requirement. And no, no person is property; it's what they do on a business owner's property.
Extending that, businesses should also have the right to require employees to take certain measures. Vaccine, mask, etc.

The "article" was so poorly written it's hard to tell. But it seems the government wants the ability to tell private business and local-er governments/schools what to do.

If any have I think the long-term issues are nil.

Ok So, I have to ask.
Did you have any problems with the gov't telling most biz to LOCKDOWN? is that a "Property Rights" issue?
Did the gov't have the right to tell biz what to do on their private property for the better part of a year?
Has that ever been done before? No.

Also don't you think that that's a legal precedent that's going to last? And it will be done again when any gov't world wide (local, state, federal) sees fit?
(BTW there were no double blind studies ever done to prove that lockdowns work. No studies at all.)

Also, don't you think the loss of people's businesses ... and many forever .. is a bit more than nil effect long-term for a lot of people?
Not to mention the loss of jobs and homes.
Less personally the commercial office space market has a hole in it as big as Kansas that will probably never repair, because the right of private biz to do biz AT ALL was infringed.

[icansayit]

Ok So, I have to ask.
Did you have any problems with the gov't telling most biz to LOCKDOWN? is that a "Property Rights" issue?
Did the gov't have the right to tell biz what to do on their private property for the better part of a year?
Has that ever been done before? No.

Also don't you think that that's a legal precedent that's going to last? And it will be done again when any gov't world wide (local, state, federal) sees fit?
(BTW there were no double blind studies ever done to prove that lockdowns work. No studies at all.)

Also, don't you think the loss of people's businesses ... and many forever .. is a bit more than nil effect long-term for a lot of people?
Not to mention the loss of jobs and homes.
Less personally the commercial office space market has a hole in it as big as Kansas that will probably never repair, because the right of private biz to do biz AT ALL was infringed.


Everything taking place is a BOLD-FACED Violation of the U.S.Constitution. Amendments 4, and 14 for starters. In case anyone cares. Other than an entire membership of Congress who seem totally oblivious to even THEIR OWN OATH OF OFFICE.

[SassyLady]

My comment is long term covid related; nil.
Perhaps I care more about my freedom from government overreach than you are.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[fj1200]

Perhaps I care more about my freedom from government overreach than you are.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Perhaps you do. And I was referring to long-term covid related loss of freedoms which I think will not amount to very much if anything. But there is overreach on both sides. Like this law which apparently was making demands on private businesses and signed by Desantis.

[Black Diamond]

Ok So, I have to ask.
Did you have any problems with the gov't telling most biz to LOCKDOWN? is that a "Property Rights" issue?
Did the gov't have the right to tell biz what to do on their private property for the better part of a year?
Has that ever been done before? No.

Also don't you think that that's a legal precedent that's going to last? And it will be done again when any gov't world wide (local, state, federal) sees fit?
(BTW there were no double blind studies ever done to prove that lockdowns work. No studies at all.)

Also, don't you think the loss of people's businesses ... and many forever .. is a bit more than nil effect long-term for a lot of people?
Not to mention the loss of jobs and homes.
Less personally the commercial office space market has a hole in it as big as Kansas that will probably never repair, because the right of private biz to do biz AT ALL was infringed.

I predict there will be a new variant every year. How long is the Greek alphabet? And the infringement(s) will continue.

[fj1200]

Ok So, I have to ask.
Did you have any problems with the gov't telling most biz to LOCKDOWN? is that a "Property Rights" issue?
Did the gov't have the right to tell biz what to do on their private property for the better part of a year?
Has that ever been done before? No.

Also don't you think that that's a legal precedent that's going to last? And it will be done again when any gov't world wide (local, state, federal) sees fit?
(BTW there were no double blind studies ever done to prove that lockdowns work. No studies at all.)

Also, don't you think the loss of people's businesses ... and many forever .. is a bit more than nil effect long-term for a lot of people?
Not to mention the loss of jobs and homes.
Less personally the commercial office space market has a hole in it as big as Kansas that will probably never repair, because the right of private biz to do biz AT ALL was infringed.

There was plenty of government telling people what to do and what to do on their proerty. And much of it was poorly thought out with little public benefit. There's plenty I can agree with you on. And plenty of people lost homes, businesses closed, lost jobs but those aren't necessarily government related actions. But, there won't be a new police state coming out of this.

[revelarts]

There was plenty of government telling people what to do and what to do on their proerty. And much of it was poorly thought out with little public benefit. There's plenty I can agree with you on. And plenty of people lost homes, businesses closed, lost jobs but those aren't necessarily government related actions. But, there won't be a new police state coming out of this.

https://media.giphy.com/media/CiYImHHBivpAs/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47h03ooa6ts9jlmrdc9whjau5z4qof cq63jkgc1wjd&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

https://media.giphy.com/media/kSCN7LO3qPFE4/giphy.gif?cid=790b761185960733d0a06369003ea620ccd4 b9b09da1ce3d&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

[fj1200]

https://media.giphy.com/media/CiYImHHBivpAs/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47h03ooa6ts9jlmrdc9whjau5z4qof cq63jkgc1wjd&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

https://media.giphy.com/media/kSCN7LO3qPFE4/giphy.gif?cid=790b761185960733d0a06369003ea620ccd4 b9b09da1ce3d&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

Pictures. Awesome. There was already going to be economic impacts from covid; therefore not all government related.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

A tool like this is too good.
Covid or A VARIANT! or some other bio-threat will be behind us on the 12th of Never.
Just like "the war terror".
Between the 2 of them every human right can be striped in the name of "safety".

SSSSSSSSSSHHHHHH. Don't tell little fj that.
FJ MIGHT BLOW A FUSE BY TYPING SO FAST-- "YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT."
Like the avoidance champ has done several times to my a few of my posts.
And his playing ignorant of facts, is getting old too.
Or may be debate whether it is actually-- "playing"???.. -- :laugh:--Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

:laugh:
With fj -- the three monkeys come in handy, see no evil, hear no evil. speak no evil....
Always quite handy when avoiding certain things,, fj seems to be a master at it...-Tyr

[LongTermGuy]

With fj -- the three monkeys come in handy, see no evil, hear no evil. speak no evil....
Always quite handy when avoiding certain things,, fj seems to be a master at it...-Tyr

:thumb:....

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1185/5115856004_fe2513bf3e_b.jpg

[icansayit]

With fj -- the three monkeys come in handy, see no evil, hear no evil. speak no evil....
Always quite handy when avoiding certain things,, fj seems to be a master at it...-Tyr


Juicer.....Jake....Gabby??? We cannot insult the standard, now gone 3 Stooges.:laugh:

[JakeStarkey]

State and federal courts will end this crap quickly.

[LongTermGuy]

State and federal courts will end this crap quickly.


http://massivevoterfraud.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/donald-trump-quiet-gif.gif

[fj1200]

... fj ...

The cowardice with which you debate is showing up again. ;)

[fj1200]

A show of hands; Who was FOR Florida being able to fine businesses for asking for proof of having gotten the covid vaccine?

[Gunny]

A show of hands; Who was FOR Florida being able to fine businesses for asking for proof of having gotten the covid vaccine?If you are trying to get no responses, that's the right question :)

DeSantis is overreaching the same as Abbott. One would think two of the most powerful Governors in the US would understand overreach and voter backlash. Not a hard trend to follow (observe).

[Juicer66]

How? (hands out shaking my head shrugging)


Red Indians with anger issues by the sound of it .

[SassyLady]

A show of hands; Who was FOR Florida being able to fine businesses for asking for proof of having gotten the covid vaccine?

City of Tucson fined businesses and employees of that business $50 or community service if they let people in without a mask. Fine is for each person.

So, government can fine a business for non compliance of an ordinance.

I truthfully thought each business should be allowed to make that decision and the customers that wanted to use that business.

I'm not a fan of those asking for Vax cards but also not a fan of fining those that do ask. As I said earlier that decision should be a business decision. Customers will support or not support with their feet.

[OAK]

Yeah I hope I am not too late to the party. But should employers be allowed to demand access to my health records? I feel that a Vax card would fall under that.I don't want to get into this argument but I would just like to point out that anyone can give their own medical information to anyone they please.

HIPPA only applies to covered entities; Healthcare Providers, Health Plans, Healthcare Clearinghouses, and Business Associates of a covered Entity.

[SassyLady]

I don't want to get into this argument but I would just like to point out that anyone can give their own medical information to anyone they please.

HIPPA only applies to covered entities; Healthcare Providers, Health Plans, Healthcare Clearinghouses, and Business Associates of a covered Entity.

Yes they can. However, being forced to is different.

[fj1200]

If you are trying to get no responses, that's the right question :)

DeSantis is overreaching the same as Abbott. One would think two of the most powerful Governors in the US would understand overreach and voter backlash. Not a hard trend to follow (observe).

Based on the pushback I received where I was not for it I would think that someone would be for it.

I don't understand the overreach either except that they're so being against the left on one side that they go full circle trying to appeal to the "base" whatever that is in this case. Businesses get stuck in the middle.

[fj1200]

City of Tucson fined businesses and employees of that business $50 or community service if they let people in without a mask. Fine is for each person.

So, government can fine a business for non compliance of an ordinance.

I truthfully thought each business should be allowed to make that decision and the customers that wanted to use that business.

I'm not a fan of those asking for Vax cards but also not a fan of fining those that do ask. As I said earlier that decision should be a business decision. Customers will support or not support with their feet.

I'd probably say it's more enforceable to require businesses to require masks because they're likely already being required to be licensed in the first place. But either way an encroachment on property rights.


Yes they can. However, being forced to is different.

You're not forced to go into a place of business.

[icansayit]

They start with government telling businesses WHAT they must do to allow customers in.
Next. The government decides WHO can go into the business in the first place.
Next. The government tells those who go into the business WHAT they are able to do.
Eventually. The government gets so much power over the business. They tell the Businesses WHAT they are permitted to sell, or deal with.

And finally. Government takes FULL control over the businesses and more than TAXES them OUT OF BUSINESS In order to take FULL CONTROL....Just like the MAFIA did in the 1920's, 30's, 40's and even today.

That is the ULTIMATE GOAL OF WASHINGTON D.C. RADICAL POLITICIANS who stand to PROFIT from SOCIALIST CONTROL.

[SassyLady]

I'd probably say it's more enforceable to require businesses to require masks because they're likely already being required to be licensed in the first place. But either way an encroachment on property rights.



You're not forced to go into a place of business.
Unless government forces all businesses to require Vax passports with threat of fines... then one cannot function normally. There will be no alternative business to turn to.

That is limitation on capitalism and individual rights.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

The cowardice with which you debate is showing up again. ;)

I'd happily meet you anywhere any time to discuss the true definition of the word-- cowardice.
As it is so damn blazingly obvious that you have not a clue.
Myself, I have over a 50 year run of proving that word never applies to me...(and dozens of witnesses)...
But you- well I have first hand account by somebody that had the displeasure of riding with you, about what a weasel and punk you were and are.
And that guy would not lie about it....
So blow smoke all you want idiot- punks usually do....--Tyr

[fj1200]

Unless government forces all businesses to require Vax passports with threat of fines... then one cannot function normally. There will be no alternative business to turn to.

That is limitation on capitalism and individual rights.

I'm not quite sure where we disagree. If a business wants to require a vax card then they are within their rights. If government wants to force business to require particular actions then it is a limitation on individual rights.

[fj1200]

I'd happily meet you anywhere any time to discuss the true definition of the word-- cowardice.
As it is so damn blazingly obvious that you have not a clue.
Myself, I have over a 50 year run of proving that word never applies to me...(and dozens of witnesses)...
But you- well I have first hand account by somebody that had the displeasure of riding with you, about what a weasel and punk you were and are.
And that guy would not lie about it....
So blow smoke all you want idiot- punks usually do....--Tyr

I repeat; I can virtually guarantee that I've not ridden with anyone that you know. The rest of your story just isn't even believable.

And you debate like a coward. You rant with the best of them but those are two different things.

[LongTermGuy]

I repeat; I can virtually guarantee that I've not ridden with anyone that you know. The rest of your story just isn't even believable.

And you debate like a coward. You rant with the best of them but those are two different things.


Hey fj...stop folling me ..Ignore my threads...and stop arguing with folks on my threads...Like Sassy says..go post some of your own threads you can argue there...Your a piece of crap...and fuck you !

[fj1200]

Hey fj...

Chill dude. Other than my first post here I don't think I quoted you. Others took issue with whatever I said so the discussion grew from there. It's how forums work.

[JakeStarkey]

The courts will an end to legislative tyranny immediately.

[LongTermGuy]

The courts will an end to legislative tyranny immediately.



We will see......

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Hey fj...stop folling me ..Ignore my threads...and stop arguing with folks on my threads...Like Sassy says..go post some of your own threads you can argue there...Your a piece of crap...and fuck you !

Careful now my friend or else the blithering fool will give you one of his famous " almost -virtual guarantees"..!!!!--:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Like the chump did me....--Tyr


""I repeat; I can virtually guarantee that I've not ridden with anyone that you know. The rest of your story just isn't even believable.""

[fj1200]

Careful now my friend or else the blithering fool will give you one of his famous " almost -virtual guarantees"..!!!!--:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Like the chump did me....--Tyr

I only keep open the possibility that by some strange coincidence I did ride with someone you know... The rest of your story is fiction though.

Besides your friend was understandably upset because of my post in another thread for which I apologized. Hopefully he'll accept it.

[LongTermGuy]

Careful now my friend or else the blithering fool will give you one of his famous " almost -virtual guarantees"..!!!!--:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Like the chump did me....--Tyr



No worries...

But..I see he is still posting here...

[SassyLady]

Follow up on Tucson vax mandates

https://breaking911.com/arizona-ag-says-tuscon-vaccine-mandate-is-illegal-warns-city-could-lose-millions-in-funds/

[icansayit]

No worries...

But..I see he is still posting here...




How INEFFECTIVE constant BLITHERING can be. Reminds me of something someone once said about..."The definition of insanity????"