problems with accuracy regarding the crusades

[actsnoblemartin]

In most history books today, the crusades are simply told as bad christians, doing bad.

The problem with this is two fold. History needs to be told in context.

If nobody knows why someone in history did something, then we cant understand history, or learn from its mistakes. Lets take funding saddam huseein in the 1980-88 war with iran, we believed if iran won, an islamic state would settle in iran. That is not saying whether it was right or wrong mind you, but giving you the context of why.

Second, telling you what actually happened, without political correctness or revisionist history. In the crusades, the actual purpose was, to drive out muslims, (read this next part carefully) who stole christian lands. This happened after mohammed died, for 24 years, until charles de martel of france stopped them. Now, i do not know if they also killed jews, which if they did, they had no right, for they would have killed them out of hatred, not for any legitimate reason, and i also have no idea, of everything else that happened during the 5 crusades.

But the facts, grim, disturbing, but most important, honest, without revision, or political correctness must be presented, or we are ignorant or history, and condemend to be ignorant in the future.

The past ties in to the present, which determines our future.

Thank you for reading :)

[PostmodernProphet]

In the crusades, the actual purpose was, to drive out muslims

???...not really.....that was merely the pretext......the more relevant factors were the existance of the feudal system which meant the existence of second and third sons who had no hope of inheriting the family estate.....creating a large pool of armed adventurers intent on making their fortunes.....combined with a the growth of the state in Europe.....the church used the crusades as a good way to get rid of noblemen who thought they should exert more influence than the church,,,,,

[actsnoblemartin]

very interesting. Thank you for the info, any more you could provide would be great, especially links. As i mentioned, I dont know a ton about the crusades, so, any ignorance I have, I simply want to fill in. Better to admit, when your wrong, or lack knowledge of something, so you can learn, i always say :)

No shame in admitting you dont know, so you can know, from someone :).


???...not really.....that was merely the pretext......the more relevant factors were the existance of the feudal system which meant the existence of second and third sons who had no hope of inheriting the family estate.....creating a large pool of armed adventurers intent on making their fortunes.....combined with a the growth of the state in Europe.....the church used the crusades as a good way to get rid of noblemen who thought they should exert more influence than the church,,,,,

[avatar4321]

???...not really.....that was merely the pretext......the more relevant factors were the existance of the feudal system which meant the existence of second and third sons who had no hope of inheriting the family estate.....creating a large pool of armed adventurers intent on making their fortunes.....combined with a the growth of the state in Europe.....the church used the crusades as a good way to get rid of noblemen who thought they should exert more influence than the church,,,,,

You mean the brutish thugs. Thats all those so called noblemen really were. Its not a coincidence that after sending all the thugs away that the people remaining started a reneisance.

[PostmodernProphet]

Thank you for the info, any more you could provide would be great, especially links.

nothing I have researched since the inception of the internet....simply the residue of having a history major in college 30+ years ago.......

during that era of European history you were coming to the end of a long period in which the Church was the primary ruling factor....national governments were either weak or non-existant, you had loose federations of local rulers, all of whom owed more allegience to a bishop than to a higher political authority......there were those who had visions of using war to consolidate their neighbors into larger units of 'state'.....the Church deflected those movements, through the crusades, by directing those armies to Jerusalem instead of Rome

[actsnoblemartin]

let me ask you this though friend :), do you believe history is being revised to make certain people or groups look better, and to make history more p.c. friendly?


nothing I have researched since the inception of the internet....simply the residue of having a history major in college 30+ years ago.......

[PostmodernProphet]

first, history can never be 'revised'.....certain truths of history can be ignored or mis-represented, but there are too many sources for it to be completely hidden.....

now, if you are asking me if "history is written by the victor", it is certainly a factor....but again, unless all the losers are dead, alternative accounts will always be available......

if you are asking me if certain groups attempt to distort history to gain power, again, it is certainly a factor.....I will give you an example.....the American left has made a very concerted effort to distort history with respect to the issue of the existence of WMD in Iraq.....so much so that the average person on the street is inclined to actually believe that Saddam never had WMD.....fortunately, there are places where that distortion is corrected......