voting agains the constitution

[truthmatters]

http://restore-habeas.org/whip/total.php

It seems some dont think America is any better than other countries.

Name Party State Position Take Action
Murkowski, Lisa R AK no CALL THEM NOW!
Stevens, Ted R AK no CALL THEM NOW!
Sessions, Jeff R AL no CALL THEM NOW!
Shelby, Richard C. R AL no CALL THEM NOW!
Lincoln, Blanche L. D AR yes CALL THEM NOW!
Pryor, Mark L. D AR yes CALL THEM NOW!
Kyl, Jon R AZ no CALL THEM NOW!
McCain, John R AZ no CALL THEM NOW!
Boxer, Barbara D CA yes CALL THEM NOW!
Feinstein, Dianne D CA yes CALL THEM NOW!
Allard, Wayne R CO no CALL THEM NOW!
Salazar, Ken D CO yes CALL THEM NOW!
Dodd, Christopher J. D CT yes CALL THEM NOW!
Lieberman, Joseph I. I CT no CALL THEM NOW!
Biden, Joseph R., Jr. D DE yes CALL THEM NOW!
Carper, Thomas R. D DE yes CALL THEM NOW!
Martinez, Mel R FL no CALL THEM NOW!
Nelson, Bill D FL yes CALL THEM NOW!
Chambliss, Saxby R GA maybe CALL THEM NOW!
Isakson, Johnny R GA no CALL THEM NOW!
Akaka, Daniel K. D HI yes CALL THEM NOW!
Inouye, Daniel K. D HI yes CALL THEM NOW!
Grassley, Chuck R IA no CALL THEM NOW!
Harkin, Tom D IA yes CALL THEM NOW!
Craig, Larry E. R ID no CALL THEM NOW!
Crapo, Mike R ID no CALL THEM NOW!
Durbin, Richard D IL yes CALL THEM NOW!
Obama, Barack D IL yes CALL THEM NOW!
Bayh, Evan D IN yes CALL THEM NOW!
Lugar, Richard G. R IN yes CALL THEM NOW!
Brownback, Sam R KS no CALL THEM NOW!
Roberts, Pat R KS no CALL THEM NOW!
Bunning, Jim R KY no CALL THEM NOW!
McConnell, Mitch R KY no CALL THEM NOW!
Landrieu, Mary L. D LA yes CALL THEM NOW!
Vitter, David R LA no CALL THEM NOW!
Kennedy, Edward M. D MA yes CALL THEM NOW!
Kerry, John F. D MA yes CALL THEM NOW!
Cardin, Benjamin L. D MD yes CALL THEM NOW!
Mikulski, Barbara A. D MD yes CALL THEM NOW!
Collins, Susan M. R ME no CALL THEM NOW!
Snowe, Olympia J. R ME yes CALL THEM NOW!
Levin, Carl D MI yes CALL THEM NOW!
Stabenow, Debbie D MI yes CALL THEM NOW!
Coleman, Norm R MN no CALL THEM NOW!
Klobuchar, Amy D MN yes CALL THEM NOW!
Bond, Christopher S. R MO no CALL THEM NOW!
McCaskill, Claire D MO yes CALL THEM NOW!
Cochran, Thad R MS no CALL THEM NOW!
Lott, Trent R MS no CALL THEM NOW!
Baucus, Max D MT yes CALL THEM NOW!
Tester, Jon D MT yes CALL THEM NOW!
Burr, Richard R NC no CALL THEM NOW!
Dole, Elizabeth R NC no CALL THEM NOW!
Conrad, Kent D ND yes CALL THEM NOW!
Dorgan, Byron L. D ND yes CALL THEM NOW!
Hagel, Chuck R NE yes CALL THEM NOW!
Nelson, E. Benjamin D NE yes CALL THEM NOW!
Gregg, Judd R NH no CALL THEM NOW!
Sununu, John E. R NH yes CALL THEM NOW!
Lautenberg, Frank R. D NJ yes CALL THEM NOW!
Menendez, Robert D NJ yes CALL THEM NOW!
Bingaman, Jeff D NM yes CALL THEM NOW!
Domenici, Pete V. R NM no CALL THEM NOW!
Ensign, John R NV no CALL THEM NOW!
Reid, Harry D NV yes CALL THEM NOW!
Clinton, Hillary Rodham D NY yes CALL THEM NOW!
Schumer, Charles E. D NY yes CALL THEM NOW!
Brown, Sherrod D OH yes CALL THEM NOW!
Voinovich, George V. R OH no CALL THEM NOW!
Coburn, Tom R OK no CALL THEM NOW!
Inhofe, James M. R OK no CALL THEM NOW!
Smith, Gordon H. R OR yes CALL THEM NOW!
Wyden, Ron D OR yes CALL THEM NOW!
Casey, Robert P., Jr. D PA yes CALL THEM NOW!
Specter, Arlen R PA yes CALL THEM NOW!
Reed, Jack D RI yes CALL THEM NOW!
Whitehouse, Sheldon D RI yes CALL THEM NOW!
DeMint, Jim R SC no CALL THEM NOW!
Graham, Lindsey R SC no CALL THEM NOW!
Johnson, Tim D SD yes CALL THEM NOW!
Thune, John R SD no CALL THEM NOW!
Alexander, Lamar R TN no CALL THEM NOW!
Corker, Bob R TN no CALL THEM NOW!
Cornyn, John R TX no CALL THEM NOW!
Hutchison, Kay Bailey R TX no CALL THEM NOW!
Bennett, Robert F. R UT no CALL THEM NOW!
Hatch, Orrin G. R UT no CALL THEM NOW!
Warner, John R VA no CALL THEM NOW!
Webb, Jim D VA yes CALL THEM NOW!
Leahy, Patrick J. D VT yes CALL THEM NOW!
Sanders, Bernard I VT yes CALL THEM NOW!
Cantwell, Maria D WA yes CALL THEM NOW!
Murray, Patty D WA yes CALL THEM NOW!
Feingold, Russell D. D WI yes CALL THEM NOW!
Kohl, Herb D WI yes CALL THEM NOW!
Byrd, Robert C. D WV yes CALL THEM NOW!
Rockefeller, John D., IV D WV yes CALL THEM NOW!
Barrasso, John R WY no CALL THEM NOW!
Enzi, Michael B. R WY no CALL THEM NOW!

[avatar4321]

Alright, so whats the actual bill do? I dont give a damn what they call it. They could call it the "Let's help little kids and old people act" and it wouldnt be worth squat if the Bill was a piece of crap. So whats in it?

[truthmatters]

Oh nothing to bother your whiney little self about just things in the constitution.

This week, we have a critical opportunity to restore habeas corpus.

The Habeas Corpus Restoration Act gives us a chance to reverse one of the Bush Administration's many assaults on our civil liberties.

We all want to make America safe from terrorism, but becoming a nation that sanctions the unlawful detention of its own residents -- detaining and jailing them without the chance to appear before a judge -- does not make us safe. Instead, it violates a value that we have held dear for centuries -- safeguarding our individual freedom before arbitrary state action.

Please sign-on below as a citizen co-sponsor to the bipartisan Leahy-Specter-Dodd Habeas Corpus Restoration Act.

http://restore-habeas.org/whip/total.php

[MtnBiker]

blah blah blah blah, you still haven't said what is in the bill.

[Gaffer]

Nope I ain't signing.

If TM is for it, it can't be good for anyone.

[darin]

Nope I ain't signing.

If TM is for it, it can't be good for anyone.

Absolutely - From what I've seen here, ANYTHING TM is 'for', is precisely bad, evil, false and a lie.

[manu1959]

Absolutely - From what I've seen here, ANYTHING TM is 'for', is precisely bad, evil, false and a lie.

the bill would grant habeas corpus to everyone in gitmo .....

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:S.185:

[remie]

blah blah blah blah, you still haven't said what is in the bill.

She aint sayin cause she dont know....what else is new.

[truthmatters]

SoTHE f@#K WHAT.

We are better than this enemy and dont need to act like nazis to beat them.

Im so tired of so many Americans acting like chicken shits and selling our country down the Tubes because we have a idiot president who tells them to start whining and be affraid.

Quit being a pack of pantywastes!

[truthmatters]

habeas corpus!

what are you people too stupid to read?

[remie]

SoTHE f@#K WHAT.

We are better than this enemy and dont need to act like nazis to beat them.

Im so tired of so many Americans acting like chicken shits and selling our country down the Tubes because we have a idiot president who tells them to start whining and be affraid.

Quit being a pack of pantywastes!

Aw come on darlin. Dont be mad. Pretty please tell us what you think the bill says.

[truthmatters]

Ive tried explaining things to people on this site and they are just to stupid to waste time on.

You try to remain civil and slowly explain your point of view ad they trreat you like you just murdered their mother.

Its a total waste of time so Instead Ive desided to just post the truth and let them do the same f@#king thing they would do anyway.

Pass out red squares like they mean something and act like the ignorant brainwashed fools they are.

Less of my time wasted.

[remie]

Ive tried explaining things to people on this site and they are just to stupid to waste time on.

You try to remain civil and slowly explain your point of view ad they trreat you like you just murdered their mother.

Its a total waste of time so Instead Ive desided to just post the truth and let them do the same f@#king thing they would do anyway.

Pass out red squares like they mean something and act like the ignorant brainwashed fools they are.

Less of my time wasted.

In other words you really dont have a clue.

[Monkeybone]

ok now i have heard about this, the whole not seeing the judge thing. are they not allowed ever to see the judge? if yes, proff. or is it that with everything going on they just haven't seen one yet?

[manu1959]

Ive tried explaining things to people on this site and they are just to stupid to waste time on.

You try to remain civil and slowly explain your point of view ad they trreat you like you just murdered their mother.

Its a total waste of time so Instead Ive desided to just post the truth and let them do the same f@#king thing they would do anyway.

Pass out red squares like they mean something and act like the ignorant brainwashed fools they are.

Less of my time wasted.

those little red squares sure have made you bitchy.....

so when are you leaving....wouldn't want you to waste any more of your precious time....

[truthmatters]

Oh quit your whining you nerd

[stephanie]

It looks to me, someone found out that we weren't all a bunch of mushy headed children that will go along willingly with their views...

You can tell me till your blue in the face, how much you hate President Bush, and we're all idiots if we support him....Doesn't mean I will listen to you or care what you have to say...
I think for myself and have for many moons now..
Oh well..

Peace be with you..:cheers2:

[truthmatters]

It looks to me, someone found out that we weren't all a bunch of mushy headed children that will go along willingly with their views...

You can tell me till your blue in the face, how much you hate President Bush, and we're all idiots if we support him....Doesn't mean I will listen to you or care what you have to say...
I think for myself and have for many moons now..
Oh well..

Peace be with you..:cheers2:


Hate ? hate ?

Look at the picture you choose to use .

Your hate paints everything you do and say.

You will be laughed at by your grandkids when you go into tyrades about how great a president GWB was.

They will agree with the rest of the world who knows he will be the worst of which all other presidents will be based on.

People will think Bush league as an insult came from comparing people to him.

[stephanie]

Hate ? hate ?

Look at the picture you choose to use .

Your hate paints everything you do and say.

You will be laughed at by your grandkids when you go into tyrades about how great a president GWB was.

They will agree with the rest of the world who knows he will be the worst of which all other presidents will be based on.

People will think Bush league as an insult came from comparing people to him.

What's wrong with my Avatar?? It looks just like Hillary..
What's so hateful about that?

You really need to take a :chillpill:You've turned into a blathering idiot...:cheers2:

[truthmatters]

quit your whining you hatemonger

[stephanie]

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/alaskamomma/a194.gif


http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/alaskamomma/157854.gif http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/alaskamomma/157854.gif http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/alaskamomma/157854.gif

[truthmatters]

cant think of anything to say?

well its better than listening to you whine some more.

[jimnyc]

quit your whining you hatemonger

Why do you hate those you think whine?

[stephanie]

cant think of anything to say?

well its better than listening to you whine some more.

The ONLY one whining and spitting out hate, is you my dear...:cheers2:

[truthmatters]

You run and chear the destruction of the constitution and pray for death in Iraq all because some rag tag assholes who Bush was too stupid or careless to stop made a lucky hit on this great nation.

You find them so scary you run arrround like chickens with your heads cut off screaming like childern "Oh no they are going to come and get us, they are the Boogy man and Im scared".

You destroy our economy and Spill the blood of our bravest and listen to a bitch like Mann Cultwhore say "attacking Iran will be fun" and applaud like she just said something compariable to the founders love freedom.

THEN you sit there and say nothing when some dimwitt says the founders hated Democracy?

You are a pack of demented children who would follow Bush into a slaughter house and tell him thank you while laying your head on the chopping block alll because he told you the Booby man might be outside and want to get you.

Im sick of you pantywaste chickenshits doing everything out of fear.

Grow some nuts.

[darin]

I don't see too well - is that Nostradamus over there?

[BoogyMan]

habeas corpus!

what are you people too stupid to read?

Why should those who wish to commit acts of terrorism against the people of this country receive succor at the hand of the justice system TruthMatters? When you claim civility in the face of the lion, you still get eaten.

[5stringJeff]

truthmatters, all you had to do was cut and paste the bill summary and people would have a better idea of what exactly you're talking about. I've done that below:


Habeas Corpus Restoration Act of 2007- Repeals provisions of the Military Commissions Act of 2006 that eliminated the jurisdiction of any court to hear or consider applications for a writ of habeas corpus filed by aliens who have been determined by the United States to have been properly detained as enemy combatants (or who are awaiting such determination) and actions against the United States relating to the detention of such aliens and to military commissions (thus restoring habeas corpus rights existing prior to the enactment of such Act).

I am against this, specifically because I don't believe that aliens deserve the same rights as citizens under American law.

[truthmatters]

truthmatters, all you had to do was cut and paste the bill summary and people would have a better idea of what exactly you're talking about. I've done that below:



I am against this, specifically because I don't believe that aliens deserve the same rights as citizens under American law.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

you dont think America is strong enough be beat these terrorists and retain our image of being the shinning city on the hill do you.

You just proved that you do not LOVE this country one Iota of what I do.

Quit your whining and go live in a country which has no morals and dignaty America is TOO GOOD for the likes of you.

[5stringJeff]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

you dont think America is strong enough be beat these terrorists and retain our image of being the shinning city on the hill do you.

You just proved that you do not LOVE this country one Iota of what I do.

Quit your whining and go live in a country which has no morals and dignaty America is TOO GOOD for the likes of you.

Yawn. When you figure out the difference between a citizen and an alien, come join the conversation.

[truthmatters]

Give away our reputation because you are a chicken shit.

It still means you are a chicken shit who does not believe in the great principles of this country.

Im so sick of you whiney little people thinking you have the moral ground.

You have SOLD the moral ground for your partys sake and care nothing about this GREAT COUNTRY!

[darin]

Give away our reputation because you are a chicken shit.

It still means you are a chicken shit who does not believe in the great principles of this country.

Im so sick of you whiney little people thinking you have the moral ground.

You have SOLD the moral ground for your partys sake and care nothing about this GREAT COUNTRY!

What have you given up in service to our Nation, besides your time posting here?

:)

[shattered]

Give away our reputation because you are a chicken shit.

It still means you are a chicken shit who does not believe in the great principles of this country.

Im so sick of you whiney little people thinking you have the moral ground.

You have SOLD the moral ground for your partys sake and care nothing about this GREAT COUNTRY!

Seriously.. Did you run out of meds? Walgreens is everywhere, and most have 24 hour pharmacies..

The passive-aggressive crap is so old on here, it's not funny.. You're not the first, and you won't be the last..

[jimnyc]

What have you given up in service to our Nation, besides your time posting here?

:)

I believe she donated her brain.

[5stringJeff]

Give away our reputation because you are a chicken shit.

It still means you are a chicken shit who does not believe in the great principles of this country.

Im so sick of you whiney little people thinking you have the moral ground.

You have SOLD the moral ground for your partys sake and care nothing about this GREAT COUNTRY!

Our reputation as what? Not tough enough to deal with terrorists and terrorism when it confronts us?

And before you attempt to lecture me about being a "chicken shit" or selling out my country, check yourself before you wreck yourself. I've given more service to my country than the vast majority of Americans have. And no, I don't want a medal.

[jimnyc]

Our reputation as what? Not tough enough to deal with terrorists and terrorism when it confronts us?

And before you attempt to lecture me about being a "chicken shit" or selling out my country, check yourself before you wreck yourself. I've given more service to my country than the vast majority of Americans have. And no, I don't want a medal.

I was going to say something similar, but you said it better.

Thanks for your service, Jeff! :salute:

[truthmatters]

What have you given up in service to our Nation, besides your time posting here?

:)


When was the last time you read the constitution?

I and every American have a right to speak our minds about this and anything else about the running of our country.

You have spent so much time on this site which is so full of peiople just like you that you think Americans dont have a right to speak.

You are stabbing this country in the heart with your backing of this totally EVIL administration and you will be torn appart by history for you idiotic backing of such evil.

You are an unprincipled person who will hate what this country is in the end.

You will either be successful in Killing our Democracy and then will hate whats left or the people like me will win and you will hate what that leads to.

Either way you will lose.

[darin]

Jeff is GOOD at 'servicing'...I've seen him shirtless. Seriously. :)

[darin]

Uh???


When was the last time you read the constitution?

I and every American have a right to speak our minds about this and anything else about the running of our country.

You have spent so much time on this site which is so full of peiople just like you that you think Americans dont have a right to speak.

You are stabbing this country in the heart with your backing of this totally EVIL administration and you will be torn appart by history for you idiotic backing of such evil.

You are an unprincipled person who will hate what this country is in the end.

You will either be successful in Killing our Democracy and then will hate whats left or the people like me will win and you will hate what that leads to.

Either way you will lose.

...so I repeat:

What have you given up in service to our Nation?

Can you name one thing you've sacrificed for the good of our nation?

You know? The MORE I read your crap here on the board, the MORE you sound like an Islamic Terrorist.

[truthmatters]

Uh???



...so I repeat:

What have you given up in service to our Nation?

Can you name one thing you've sacrificed for the good of our nation?

You know? The MORE I read your crap here on the board, the MORE you sound like an Islamic Terrorist.


The same as you have.

[jimnyc]

Can you name one thing you've sacrificed for the good of our nation?

Psssstt... I know I promised not to pick anymore, but I already told you, she donated her brain. I believe they used it to power an electric monkey that spins in circles while constantly repeating the words "I hate Bush... I hate Bush..."

[darin]

The same as you have.

Bullshit.

[truthmatters]

You have nothing left huh?

You see I dont run screaming when you throw out petty insults instead of facing the facts.

You people live and breathe FEAR you make every decision in your lives on fear.

Oh Noes the Boogy man will get me if I dont follow Bush and hate everyone who shows me that Bush is full of shit.

Be affraid be very affraid is alll you people know and you SHAME your great country with your childish fears.

[darin]

You have nothing left huh?

You see I dont run screaming when you throw out petty insults instead of facing the facts.

You people live and breathe FEAR you make every decision in your lives on fear.

Oh Noes the Boogy man will get me if I dont follow Bush and hate everyone who shows me that Bush is full of shit.

Be affraid be very affraid is alll you people know and you SHAME your great country with your childish fears.

Tell me what you've given in service to your country.

[truthmatters]

[QUOTE=dmp;126922]Tell me what you've given in service to your country.[/QUOTI answered you.

The same as you have.

[darin]

I answered you.

The same as you have.


You're a lying piece of crap who cannot answer a simple question.

LIST for us all what you've given in service to our Nation. I'll do the same after you post, and we'll let the readers decide if the lists equate.

[diuretic]

truthmatters, all you had to do was cut and paste the bill summary and people would have a better idea of what exactly you're talking about. I've done that below:



I am against this, specifically because I don't believe that aliens deserve the same rights as citizens under American law.

In one of my passports I have an unlimited entry visa to the US. I don't know if it's still valid because that was granted to me in 1984 and the law has probably changed on that. But it is my understanding that when I enter the US lawfully - ie by way of visa - that I am granted the protection of the US Constitution. I don't know if that's still the case and next time I'm in the States I intend to stay out of trouble (the worst I ever did was a liquor run in a dry county in Kentucky) as usual, but if I somehow get caught up in something I'd like to think that I would have a right to habeas corpus, to be given a Miranda warning (I really hope it doesn't get that far by the way) and to take the Fifth, among other things.

Do you think that a lawful visitor to the US should have those rights? Or should a lawful visitor to the US have recourse only to what's afforded to him or her under international law (eg consular representaton)?

[avatar4321]

the bill would grant habeas corpus to everyone in gitmo .....

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:S.185:

did i miss where the constitution provides habeas corpus for enemy combatants? Or why it would be necessary for the Congress to give it if it was Constitutional?

Hey truth. If this was a constitutional issue, then Congress couldnt give it to anyone. The Constitution always would. The very fact that Congress has to act is strong evidence that its not Constitutional in the least.

[avatar4321]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

you dont think America is strong enough be beat these terrorists and retain our image of being the shinning city on the hill do you.

You just proved that you do not LOVE this country one Iota of what I do.

Quit your whining and go live in a country which has no morals and dignaty America is TOO GOOD for the likes of you.

Being a shining city on a hill has absolutely nothing to do with terrorists being able to use the court system to attack us. I think you are incredibly short sighted.

America will never be too good for those who defend it. Because even the weakest American will be free. And freedom allows us to overcome any obstacle with hard work.

And you are probably right. We dont love the country like you do. We actually love it enough to make sure it survives

[avatar4321]

When was the last time you read the constitution?

I and every American have a right to speak our minds about this and anything else about the running of our country.

You have spent so much time on this site which is so full of peiople just like you that you think Americans dont have a right to speak.

You are stabbing this country in the heart with your backing of this totally EVIL administration and you will be torn appart by history for you idiotic backing of such evil.

You are an unprincipled person who will hate what this country is in the end.

You will either be successful in Killing our Democracy and then will hate whats left or the people like me will win and you will hate what that leads to.

Either way you will lose.

You are completely blinded to reality here. Because honestly, George W Bush isnt evil. Misguided on a few things, immigration for one. But evil he is not. You just havent seen true evil.

Sad thing is being blind to real evil is going to make you support it when it shows up without any questions asked. When you are blinded by hate and deceit, you are much more susceptible to worse things.

[Gaffer]

In one of my passports I have an unlimited entry visa to the US. I don't know if it's still valid because that was granted to me in 1984 and the law has probably changed on that. But it is my understanding that when I enter the US lawfully - ie by way of visa - that I am granted the protection of the US Constitution. I don't know if that's still the case and next time I'm in the States I intend to stay out of trouble (the worst I ever did was a liquor run in a dry county in Kentucky) as usual, but if I somehow get caught up in something I'd like to think that I would have a right to habeas corpus, to be given a Miranda warning (I really hope it doesn't get that far by the way) and to take the Fifth, among other things.

Do you think that a lawful visitor to the US should have those rights? Or should a lawful visitor to the US have recourse only to what's afforded to him or her under international law (eg consular representaton)?

If you engaged in some sort of criminal activity while visiting your rights would be the same. You would receive all due process. However, if you were here illegally and attempting to do acts of terrorism. It is a different story. Although in most cases you would still get due process. However if your captured on a battle field, in another country, fighting US forces, you do not get the same process. And you shouldn't. This is what the left is arguing. That these combatants should be treated the same as you breaking some local law in a state your visiting.

The suspension of habius corpus is only a partial suspension affecting enemy combatants, not regular citizens or people here on visas.

[truthmatters]

We have been a better country than you people wat us to be.

We can be a better country and still be safe and free.

[avatar4321]

We have been a better country than you people wat us to be.

We can be a better country and still be safe and free.

Not if people are blinded by hate to see the reality of what we face. Because if we dont deal with what we face, we wont have grandkids to tell about Bush. We wont have anyone.

[Gunny]

Oh nothing to bother your whiney little self about just things in the constitution.

This week, we have a critical opportunity to restore habeas corpus.

The Habeas Corpus Restoration Act gives us a chance to reverse one of the Bush Administration's many assaults on our civil liberties.

We all want to make America safe from terrorism, but becoming a nation that sanctions the unlawful detention of its own residents -- detaining and jailing them without the chance to appear before a judge -- does not make us safe. Instead, it violates a value that we have held dear for centuries -- safeguarding our individual freedom before arbitrary state action.

Please sign-on below as a citizen co-sponsor to the bipartisan Leahy-Specter-Dodd Habeas Corpus Restoration Act.

http://restore-habeas.org/whip/total.php

Just as I suspected. This isn't voting against the Constitution ... it's voting against the loony left interpretation of ...

[truthmatters]

See you dont think a free and honorable country can win this war.

I and many other Americans think it is strong enough to win.

We believe in America and you dont.

[darin]

See you dont think a free and honorable country can win this war.

I and many other Americans think it is strong enough to win.

We believe in America and you dont.

Hey knucklehead...


LIST for us all what you've given in service to our Nation. I'll do the same after you post, and we'll let the readers decide if the lists equate.

[5stringJeff]

In one of my passports I have an unlimited entry visa to the US. I don't know if it's still valid because that was granted to me in 1984 and the law has probably changed on that. But it is my understanding that when I enter the US lawfully - ie by way of visa - that I am granted the protection of the US Constitution. I don't know if that's still the case and next time I'm in the States I intend to stay out of trouble (the worst I ever did was a liquor run in a dry county in Kentucky) as usual, but if I somehow get caught up in something I'd like to think that I would have a right to habeas corpus, to be given a Miranda warning (I really hope it doesn't get that far by the way) and to take the Fifth, among other things.

Do you think that a lawful visitor to the US should have those rights? Or should a lawful visitor to the US have recourse only to what's afforded to him or her under international law (eg consular representaton)?


If you engaged in some sort of criminal activity while visiting your rights would be the same. You would receive all due process. However, if you were here illegally and attempting to do acts of terrorism. It is a different story. Although in most cases you would still get due process. However if your captured on a battle field, in another country, fighting US forces, you do not get the same process. And you shouldn't. This is what the left is arguing. That these combatants should be treated the same as you breaking some local law in a state your visiting.

The suspension of habius corpus is only a partial suspension affecting enemy combatants, not regular citizens or people here on visas.

Gaffer said it well. I would add that while America typically does extend Constitutional rights to visitors with visas, aliens, etc., it is under no obligation to.

[truthmatters]

Hey knucklehead...


Like I have said the same you have.



http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2007_cr/s185.html



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Congressional Record: January 4, 2007 (Senate)]
[Page S179-S181]


STATEMENTS ON INTRODUCED BILLS AND JOINT RESOLUTIONS


Mr. SPECTER (for himself and Mr. Leahy):
S. 185. A bill to restore habeas corpus for those detained by the
United States; to the Committee on the Judiciary.
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. President, I will introduce legislation denominated
the Habeas Corpus Restoration Act. Last year, in the Military
Commissions Act, the constitutional right of habeas corpus was
attempted to be abrogated. I fought to pass an amendment to strike that
provision of the Act which was voted 51 to 48. I say ``attempted to be
abrogated'' because, in my legal judgment, that provision in the Act is
unconstitutional.
It is hard to see how there can be legislation to eliminate the
constitutional right to habeas corpus when the Constitution is explicit
that habeas corpus may not be suspended except in time of invasion or
rebellion, and we do not have either of those circumstances present, as
was conceded by the advocates of the legislation last year to take away
the right of habeas corpus.
We have had Supreme Court decisions which have made it plain that
habeas corpus is available to noncitizens and that habeas corpus
applies to territory controlled by the United States, specifically,
including Guantanamo. More recently, however, we had a decision in the
U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia applying the habeas
corpus jurisdiction stripping provision of the Military Commissions
Act, but I believe we will see the appellate courts strike down this
legislative provision.
The contention that the gravamen or the substance of habeas corpus is
provided by the statutory review to the Circuit Court of the District
of Columbia is fallacious on its face. All the statute does is allow
for a review of the regularity of proceedings. In my prepared
statement, I cite an example of litigation before a federal district
court, where a person charged with consorting with al-Qaida asked:
``What was the name of the person? He asked: What was the name of the
person I'm supposed to have consorted with? And the Presiding Officer
said: I don't know, which, according to the opinion, brought uproarious
laughter from the audience. Here a man is charged with consorting with
al-Qaida, and they cannot even tell him the name of the person he is
alleged to have consorted with.
The hearing before the Judiciary Committee, which I chaired,
contained expansive, detailed evidence about the proceedings under the
review provisions in Guantanamo, which are grossly, totally
insufficient.
The New York Times had an extensive article on this subject, starting
on the front page, last Sunday, and continuing on a full page on the
back page about what is happening at Guantanamo. It is hard to see how
in America, or in a jurisdiction controlled by the United States, these
proceedings could substitute for even rudimentary due process of law.
As I might add, the Habeas Corpus Restoration Act was introduced in
the 109th Congress. I offered the bill on behalf of myself and Senator
Leahy. Consequently, we had this bill listed in the 109th Congress as a
Specter-Leahy bill, and with Senator Leahy's consent, it is denominated
as the Specter-Leahy bill again in the 110th Congress.
Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that my prepared text be
printed in the Record.
There being no objection, the material was ordered to be printed in
the Record, as follows:

[darin]

Like I have said the same you have.

Damn Liar. Put up or shut up.

[Gunny]

See you dont think a free and honorable country can win this war.

I and many other Americans think it is strong enough to win.

We believe in America and you dont.

You and anyone who thinks like you are nothing but victims, and victims of your own inability to even save your own asses you shall be.

Your comment is stupid. I KNOW we're strong enough to win. It's people like YOU who keep us from being able to.

[Gunny]

Like I have said the same you have.



http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2007_cr/s185.html



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Congressional Record: January 4, 2007 (Senate)]
[Page S179-S181]


STATEMENTS ON INTRODUCED BILLS AND JOINT RESOLUTIONS


Mr. SPECTER (for himself and Mr. Leahy):
S. 185. A bill to restore habeas corpus for those detained by the
United States; to the Committee on the Judiciary.
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. President, I will introduce legislation denominated
the Habeas Corpus Restoration Act. Last year, in the Military
Commissions Act, the constitutional right of habeas corpus was
attempted to be abrogated. I fought to pass an amendment to strike that
provision of the Act which was voted 51 to 48. I say ``attempted to be
abrogated'' because, in my legal judgment, that provision in the Act is
unconstitutional.
It is hard to see how there can be legislation to eliminate the
constitutional right to habeas corpus when the Constitution is explicit
that habeas corpus may not be suspended except in time of invasion or
rebellion, and we do not have either of those circumstances present, as
was conceded by the advocates of the legislation last year to take away
the right of habeas corpus.
We have had Supreme Court decisions which have made it plain that
habeas corpus is available to noncitizens and that habeas corpus
applies to territory controlled by the United States, specifically,
including Guantanamo. More recently, however, we had a decision in the
U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia applying the habeas
corpus jurisdiction stripping provision of the Military Commissions
Act, but I believe we will see the appellate courts strike down this
legislative provision.
The contention that the gravamen or the substance of habeas corpus is
provided by the statutory review to the Circuit Court of the District
of Columbia is fallacious on its face. All the statute does is allow
for a review of the regularity of proceedings. In my prepared
statement, I cite an example of litigation before a federal district
court, where a person charged with consorting with al-Qaida asked:
``What was the name of the person? He asked: What was the name of the
person I'm supposed to have consorted with? And the Presiding Officer
said: I don't know, which, according to the opinion, brought uproarious
laughter from the audience. Here a man is charged with consorting with
al-Qaida, and they cannot even tell him the name of the person he is
alleged to have consorted with.
The hearing before the Judiciary Committee, which I chaired,
contained expansive, detailed evidence about the proceedings under the
review provisions in Guantanamo, which are grossly, totally
insufficient.
The New York Times had an extensive article on this subject, starting
on the front page, last Sunday, and continuing on a full page on the
back page about what is happening at Guantanamo. It is hard to see how
in America, or in a jurisdiction controlled by the United States, these
proceedings could substitute for even rudimentary due process of law.
As I might add, the Habeas Corpus Restoration Act was introduced in
the 109th Congress. I offered the bill on behalf of myself and Senator
Leahy. Consequently, we had this bill listed in the 109th Congress as a
Specter-Leahy bill, and with Senator Leahy's consent, it is denominated
as the Specter-Leahy bill again in the 110th Congress.
Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that my prepared text be
printed in the Record.
There being no objection, the material was ordered to be printed in
the Record, as follows:

You are just SO full of it. How does THIS bill reconcile with your thread title? It doesn't, that's how.

[truthmatters]

Damn Liar. Put up or shut up.


then prove its a lie?

[darin]

then prove its a lie?

You prove it's not, Liar. Damn Liar. In fact, you could even MAKE SHIT UP - I know you're good at that...Even you lying about what you've done to serve your country would be better than your stupid "uh...whatever you've done, I've done" bullshit.

[Gunny]

then prove its a lie?

No problem. Your thread title presumes that habeus corpus has been suspended in the US. It has not. The prisoners in GTMO are nto subject to the US Constitution and don't deserve to be since their goal is to destroy the ideals it represents.

But you aren't smart enough to do THAT math. You'd rather whine about our enemies are "mistreated." Shit, they have it better than any Sailor or Marine deployed aboard ship.

[darin]

No problem. Your thread title presumes that habeus corpus has been suspended in the US. It has not. The prisoners in GTMO are nto subject to the US Constitution and don't deserve to be since their goal is to destroy the ideals it represents.

But you aren't smart enough to do THAT math. You'd rather whine about our enemies are "mistreated." Shit, they have it better than any Sailor or Marine deployed aboard ship.

I think she's asking me to prove she's lying about having 'served her country' the 'same way' I have. Or the same 'amount'.

[manu1959]

Oh quit your whining you nerd

blow me old woman

[Gunny]

I think she's asking me to prove she's lying about having 'served her country' the 'same way' I have. Or the same 'amount'.

Well, I see a problem with that, since we all know you did a hitch in the Army.

From all I've seen, she does this country only a disservice.

[darin]

Well, I see a problem with that, since we all know you did a hitch in the Army.

From all I've seen, she does this country only a disservice.

2 hitches...and 1 in the NG...and humanitarian relief...and outreach programs...and...and...but who's counting...She's done NOTHING. She's lived a fat-rich-comfy life while better folk than she go off to protect her right to be a dee-dee-dee.

[truthmatters]

2 hitches...and 1 in the NG...and humanitarian relief...and outreach programs...and...and...but who's counting...She's done NOTHING. She's lived a fat-rich-comfy life while better folk than she go off to protect her right to be a dee-dee-dee.

Why should I believe a word of that?

[truthmatters]

blow me old woman


I wouldnt touch that nasty little shriveled thing with your mouth.

[darin]

Why should I believe a word of that?

You are a liar, and love lies. Do lies make you aroused, physically? You would ONLY believe it if it were a lie. :)

[truthmatters]

You are a poo poo face.

Man buy a clue or something little man.

[Gunny]

You are a poo poo face.

Man buy a clue or something little man.


So this what YOU come down to, huh? Listen to my whiney-ass bullshit or I'll lay some lameass, 1st grade insults on you?

I've know fucking 5th graders with more common sense that you, and you wouldn't know the truth if it WAS a fucking brick and landed on your grape. All your posts reek of one thing ... I hate Bush .. Bush is bad ... yada yada yada.

YOU buy a freakin' clue. Hell, go steal one if you have to.

[truthmatters]

So this what YOU come down to, huh? Listen to my whiney-ass bullshit or I'll lay some lameass, 1st grade insults on you?

I've know fucking 5th graders with more common sense that you, and you wouldn't know the truth if it WAS a fucking brick and landed on your grape. All your posts reek of one thing ... I hate Bush .. Bush is bad ... yada yada yada.

YOU buy a freakin' clue. Hell, go steal one if you have to.

I was making a joke about the repetative nature of his insults for me gunny.

Maybe its you who need to buy the clue.

BTW do yo still support the war?

[darin]

You are a poo poo face.

Man buy a clue or something little man.

So - care to share with us how you've lived ONE DAY of your life in service to the greater-good of your country?

[manu1959]

I wouldnt touch that nasty little shriveled thing with your mouth.

jewish huh?

[truthmatters]

jewish huh?


wow that was a dumb one

[avatar4321]

then prove its a lie?

I think its a guarenteed that its lie. Because no two people every do the same things as another. Even Identical twins dont live the same lives and do the same things. its kind of self proving.

[manu1959]

wow that was a dumb one

actually three people repped me for it and thought it was quite funny....

admit it you are just an angry old woman.......

[diuretic]

did i miss where the constitution provides habeas corpus for enemy combatants? Or why it would be necessary for the Congress to give it if it was Constitutional?

Hey truth. If this was a constitutional issue, then Congress couldnt give it to anyone. The Constitution always would. The very fact that Congress has to act is strong evidence that its not Constitutional in the least.

Alberto Gonzales said that the Constitution doesn't grant habeas corpus and I reckon he's right. Since habeas corpus is an artifact of English common law it would have crossed the ocean to America prior to the establishment of the constitution. So it would have been part of Americans' inherited common law rights. I'd look for it in statute in that case.

[5stringJeff]

Why should I believe a word of that?

I will vouch for him. I've seen pictures and paperwork that verifies his story.

[diuretic]

If you engaged in some sort of criminal activity while visiting your rights would be the same. You would receive all due process. However, if you were here illegally and attempting to do acts of terrorism. It is a different story. Although in most cases you would still get due process. However if your captured on a battle field, in another country, fighting US forces, you do not get the same process. And you shouldn't. This is what the left is arguing. That these combatants should be treated the same as you breaking some local law in a state your visiting.

The suspension of habius corpus is only a partial suspension affecting enemy combatants, not regular citizens or people here on visas.

Thanks, that does answer my question.....I wonder if I'd be questioned by Internal Affairs? :laugh2:

[diuretic]

Gaffer said it well. I would add that while America typically does extend Constitutional rights to visitors with visas, aliens, etc., it is under no obligation to.

Ah, I see. So the reality is that I might conceivably have to rely on international treaties for protection. That's okay, heck our laws here on illegals are draconian and the execution is usually messy.

[diuretic]

You and anyone who thinks like you are nothing but victims, and victims of your own inability to even save your own asses you shall be.

Your comment is stupid. I KNOW we're strong enough to win. It's people like YOU who keep us from being able to.

It's not so much about strength as competence. You have a proven incompetent administration, that's what will hold you back. Your incompetent administration focused on Iraq when it should have been focusing on Afghanistan and the Pakistan border with Afghanistant. Too bad though, it's a cockup and the next administration will have to fix it.

[truthmatters]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus#United_States

Its there

United States
Main article: Habeas corpus in the United States
The United States Constitution specifically included the English common law procedure in the Suspension Clause, located in Article One, Section 9. It states:

“ The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may require it. ”

The writ of habeas corpus ad subjiciendum is a civil, not criminal, proceeding in which a court inquires as to the legitimacy of a prisoner's custody. Typically, habeas corpus proceedings are to determine whether the court which imposed sentence on the defendant had jurisdiction and authority to do so, or whether the defendant's sentence has expired. Habeas corpus is also used as a legal avenue to challenge other types of custody such as pretrial detention or detention by the United States Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement pursuant to a deportation proceeding.

[diuretic]

Thanks - so the Constitution protects that right to the writ but doesn't grant it. Alberto was right. Anyway, the fact is that it's still available, just not to those in Guantanamo Bay. I suppose that's because the land there isn't part of the US and therefore is out of jurisdiction of a court to grant the writ.

[manu1959]

and she kicks her own ass yet again.....

[avatar4321]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus#United_States

Its there

United States
Main article: Habeas corpus in the United States
The United States Constitution specifically included the English common law procedure in the Suspension Clause, located in Article One, Section 9. It states:

“ The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may require it. ”

The writ of habeas corpus ad subjiciendum is a civil, not criminal, proceeding in which a court inquires as to the legitimacy of a prisoner's custody. Typically, habeas corpus proceedings are to determine whether the court which imposed sentence on the defendant had jurisdiction and authority to do so, or whether the defendant's sentence has expired. Habeas corpus is also used as a legal avenue to challenge other types of custody such as pretrial detention or detention by the United States Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement pursuant to a deportation proceeding.

Even assuming that enemy combatants were protected under the Constitution, the now emphasized part shows you exactly why you are wrong.

[diuretic]

I was wrong. I did some googling. Apparently the Habeas Corpus Act was passed in England in 1640. Now I'm not sure but was English law governing the American colonies in 1640? If so, then it must be that the Act had force in the colonies. Interesting that the Act also abolished the Star Chamber (nasty piece of work that was).

Just found this link - Burnside is a QC here.

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/linguafranca/stories/2007/1859567.htm

[Kathianne]

I was wrong. I did some googling. Apparently the Habeas Corpus Act was passed in England in 1640. Now I'm not sure but was English law governing the American colonies in 1640? If so, then it must be that the Act had force in the colonies. Interesting that the Act also abolished the Star Chamber (nasty piece of work that was).

Just found this link - Burnside is a QC here.

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/linguafranca/stories/2007/1859567.htm

Welcome to AMERICAN HISTORY.

[manu1959]

Even assuming that enemy combatants were protected under the Constitution, the now emphasized part shows you exactly why you are wrong.

yep.....this is the second time i have seen her lose and argument to herself....

[actsnoblemartin]

I honestly dont believe that foreign criminals, illegal aliens, or foreign terrorists deserve any special rights or priveleges.

#1 they are not americans citizens

#2 the geneva convention was clear, name rank and serial number, IF you were fighting for a country, none of these terrorists are. Therefore, the law does not apply to them.

#3 Im not willing to take the risk of even one american soldier, or innocent civilian in any country including any muslim country getting killed, so some lefty, can feel all warm and fuzzy. Sorry tm, with all due respect, were just gonna have to agree to disagree here buddy.

But for the record, I am against, american citizens, being denied their civil rights, even if they are terrorists, because american citizens are entitled to their rights by their creator, and no government can take that away, and we dont have to violate their rights, to catch and convict them

Also, isnt it a seperate issue. Foreign terrorists... american citizens.. seems different too me.


the bill would grant habeas corpus to everyone in gitmo .....

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:S.185:

[diuretic]

Welcome to AMERICAN HISTORY.

I have my trusty Samuel Eliot Morrison with me Kathianne. He is my constant assistant and provides me with mental balm when I get a kicking.

We share cultural origins. Our legal systems are both inherited from England, hence the reference to the Habeas Corpus Act and the abolition of Star Chamber.

I am very interested in American history. I'm saddened that I only took two semesters at university (mature age student) and that I wasn't at another university here that has a cracking good American History department and lecturer there. But that's how the biscuit falls apart, sorry, that's how the cookie crumbles (got to keep my American up to speed).

I say what I know, I point out what I don't know and I ask so as to cure my ignorance. I'm not here for point scoring.

[diuretic]

yep.....this is the second time i have seen her lose and argument to herself....

More important than point-scoring is the question should people in this situation be deprived of habeas corpus?

I'm old enough to remember the Gary Powers show trial in the Soviet Union. I remember as a kid sitting there watching Powers in the court, knowing (even at a relatively young age) that he wasn't going to get a fair trial and thinking, that poor bloke must be scared shitless.

Do you believe that the thinning number of inmates at Guantanamo should be treated by the US in exactly the same way that the Soviets treated Powers?

[truthmatters]

More important than point-scoring is the question should people in this situation be deprived of habeas corpus?

I'm old enough to remember the Gary Powers show trial in the Soviet Union. I remember as a kid sitting there watching Powers in the court, knowing (even at a relatively young age) that he wasn't going to get a fair trial and thinking, that poor bloke must be scared shitless.

Do you believe that the thinning number of inmates at Guantanamo should be treated by the US in exactly the same way that the Soviets treated Powers?


Yes they do which is why they support the republicans who voted to continue to shame Americans good name with such actions.

They dont believe in the shining city on the hill. They are too scared of Ossama Bin Boogyman. They think he should be allowed to destroy what this country has stood for years because ... well.....Hes scary.

They and the republican party we have now are the greatest cowards this country have ever produced.

[Dilloduck]

Yes they do which is why they support the republicans who voted to continue to shame Americans good name with such actions.

They dont believe in the shining city on the hill. They are too scared of Ossama Bin Boogyman. They think he should be allowed to destroy what this country has stood for years because ... well.....Hes scary.

They and the republican party we have now are the greatest cowards this country have ever produced.

Do you honestly feel a sense of shame that you are an American?

[truthmatters]

Do you honestly feel a sense of shame that you are an American?


Im proud to be an American its you who Im ashamed is an American.

You who want to burn the shinning city on the hill because Ossama Bin Boogeyman scares you so much.

[Gunny]

Im proud to be an American its you who Im ashamed is an American.

You who want to burn the shinning city on the hill because Ossama Bin Boogeyman scares you so much.

And you want to let Osama burn the shining city while hiding your head in the sand pretending if you can't see him he doesn't exist while he's taking aim at your ass stuck up in the air.

[avatar4321]

Im proud to be an American its you who Im ashamed is an American.

You who want to burn the shinning city on the hill because Ossama Bin Boogeyman scares you so much.

TM, you havent even seen the shining city on the hill.

As for Osama, any honest person realizes terrorism is a threat in this day and age. No one can deny that after 9/11. The idea that facing the truth makes you afraid is a lie. Its not facing the truth that makes you afraid but pretending that it doesnt exist that demonstrates your fear.

The consequence of fear is to pretend as though reality is not as dangerous as it really is.

[Gunny]

TM, you havent even seen the shining city on the hill.

As for Osama, any honest person realizes terrorism is a threat in this day and age. No one can deny that after 9/11. The idea that facing the truth makes you afraid is a lie. Its not facing the truth that makes you afraid but pretending that it doesnt exist that demonstrates your fear.

The consequence of fear is to pretend as though reality is not as dangerous as it really is.

One must always endeavor to identify and face ones fears ... then kill them.:death:

[avatar4321]

One must always endeavor to identify and face ones fears ... then kill them.:death:

Exactly. And if you act based on the fear you arent facing them you are trying to hide from them. If you act working to conquor the problem that could be the fear, then you are showing courage.

[Gunny]

Exactly. And if you act based on the fear you arent facing them you are trying to hide from them. If you act working to conquor the problem that could be the fear, then you are showing courage.

A 7.62 FMJ would cure what ails Osama. All of the latent homosexuals feelings he has and the frustration they cause him will no longer be a problem for him. He can rest easy in wherever the Hell he's going with his 72 virgin boys.