For Better Or Worse

[Kathianne]

Republicans are beginning to say they'll vote for impeachment. McConnell says he's done with Trump. Lynn Cheney came out and said they will not 'whip' votes, but she is voting for impeachment. Seems the numbers are growing in both house by the hour.

[LongTermGuy]

Mitch McConnell is a traitor......McConnell is reportedly pleased about Trump’s potential impeachment, believing "it will make it easier to purge Trump from the Republican Party.”

He makes me want to vomit! And we’re supposed to be so sad Republicans like him lost the senate.


*America will never be “United” under a Biden Administration.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Erj_1DhXUAEALFD?format=jpg&name=900x900
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McConnell furious with president, supports move to initiate impeachment proceedings: sources

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mcconnell-believes-trump-committed-impeachable-offenses-supports-democrats-impeachment-efforts-report

[Abbey Marie]

The Republicans turning against Trump are doing so for reasons of political expediency, as they see the writing on the wall. Nothing more, nothing less. They are politicians, and that is what politicians do.
Why would anyone expect anything different?

[Kathianne]

The Republicans turning against Trump are doing so for reasons of political expediency, as they see the writing on the wall. Nothing more, nothing less. They are politicians, and that is what politicians do.
Why would anyone expect anything different?
Only Trump and his supporters have principles? That is what you're implying, no? Not politician has always been one of the selling/excuse points.

[Abbey Marie]

Only Trump and his supporters have principles? That is what you're implying, no? Not politician has always been one of the selling/excuse points.

I did not say that. Virtually all politicians do this, which is what I said. Of course standing by someone no matter what they do isn’t always the right thing to do. Are you saying that those who still stand by him are unprincipled?
As hypocritical and spineless as most are, I’ve always thought that what I call “True Believers” are the most dangerous to have in office. They have more integrity in their steadfastness, but they are scary.

I stand by my comments.

[Kathianne]

I did not say that. Virtually all politicians do this, which is what I said. Of course standing by someone no matter what they do isn’t always the right thing to do. Are you saying that those who still stand by him are unprincipled?
As hypocritical and spineless as most are, I’ve always thought that what I call “True Believers” are the most dangerous to have in office. They have more integrity in their steadfastness, but they are scary.

I stand by my comments.

I apologize if my anger is boiling over. What I'm saying is the left is standing up for letting Big Tech silence half the citizenry-apparantly at the behest of the DNC. I'm also equally angry and unsurprised that people on the right are standing by and denying that the white supremicists for the most part, not Trump supporters that trashed the capitol a week ago, in 'loyalty' to a man who fueled this 'peaceful protest' for more than a month.

Both sides are bent on destroying the other-that's not going to end well

[Abbey Marie]

My opinion:
Out-of-control rioters, whatever their cause, are definitely not ok, and are not “my people”.
BLM rioters were violent and the MSM gave them a pass. The decision not to condemn them still rankles.
Capitol rioters were also wrong, but the MSM condemns them daily. The double-standard rankles.
Still doesn’t make it right. In both cases, feelings of injustice tend to burn inside, and eventually will erupt. Explanation, not justification.

I’ve heard the most relevant part of Trump’s speech being blamed for the rioting. I’d say it was not a call to riot. Whether he should or could have anticipated the effect it would have is another question. I would not disagree with the statement that at minimum, he should have erred on the side of caution, and in not doing so, showed very poor judgment.

[fj1200]

The Republicans turning against Trump are doing so for reasons of political expediency, as they see the writing on the wall. Nothing more, nothing less. They are politicians, and that is what politicians do.
Why would anyone expect anything different?

And who hasn't trump turned on? He'll turn against anyone in a heart beat because trumpism is about him, not any particular ideal. Personality driven populism is dangerous as we've seen. Of course then populism is dangerous as we've seen for the past year.

And FWIW trump owes 90% of his positive achievements on McConnell. He could have abandoned trump for political expedience at any time but he's trying to get laws passed and justices confirmed that will last.

[Kathianne]

Republicans are beginning to say they'll vote for impeachment. McConnell says he's done with Trump. Lynn Cheney came out and said they will not 'whip' votes, but she is voting for impeachment. Seems the numbers are growing in both house by the hour.

Looks like time is bought, hopefully this will end with just charges and not a Senate trial in a year or two?

https://hotair.com/archives/ed-morrissey/2021/01/13/breaking-mcconnell-shoots-emergency-session-impeachment-trial/


Breaking: McConnell Shoots Down Emergency Session For Impeachment TrialED MORRISSEYPosted at 1:31 pm on January 13, 2021

Translation: The votes aren’t there to remove Donald Trump in an impeachment trial. Reportedly, Mitch McConnell had favored removal, as Axios, the NYT, and CBS all reported from their own sources over the last 15 hours or so. But he’s not going to set up a trial unless he knows the outcome, as I predicted this morning:

...

[NightTrain]

I very much doubt that McConnell is going to allow this.

Consider the last 4 years of bullshit stories regarding "Real Bad News About Trump!!!oneONE11" complete with unnamed sources.

Trump and McConnell have done great things for us in the last 4 years and we owe both a debt of gratitude.

Right now the only thing stopping libs from turning us into Venezuela is the USSC.

I don't think McConnell would turn.

[Abbey Marie]

And who hasn't trump turned on? He'll turn against anyone in a heart beat because trumpism is about him, not any particular ideal. Personality driven populism is dangerous as we've seen. Of course then populism is dangerous as we've seen for the past year.

And FWIW trump owes 90% of his positive achievements on McConnell. He could have abandoned trump for political expedience at any time but he's trying to get laws passed and justices confirmed that will last.

Interesting that you singled out Trump. Did I not say virtually all pols do it? Is Trump not in political office? Of course it applies to him. Did I defend him? I believe I accused him of very poor judgement at a minimum.

Why are you so determined to still attack Trump when he is days away from being gone? What is your beef exactly?

If I’m honest it seems like you came here with some urgent need to get everyone to denounce Trump, and apologize for voting for him. Since we all know how you’ve felt about him from the start, it’s not looking very objective, fj.

[jimnyc]

The Republicans turning against Trump are doing so for reasons of political expediency, as they see the writing on the wall. Nothing more, nothing less. They are politicians, and that is what politicians do.
Why would anyone expect anything different?

Yep, and how I see it. They know it's over and now it's time for the future, if they want one anyway.

IMO, the whole thing now going forward is a waste - to an extent. The presidency is over, done with. 8 more days and things start anew. No need to turn, or stay at this point.

The scumbags that made it to the capitol building - and then went forward and decided to believe they can overturn an election, or that they can enter such a revered building and threaten people, destroy things and steal things. They all committed various crimes of varying degrees and there is no excuse for any of their behavior.

But things are so so so much more muddier than that. It IS clear 100% that they were wrong and committed crimes, there is no argument there. But how things got there. Many want to tell this story in a few sentences and it just can't be done. It's much more complex than that.

Pre-election - what took place?
Ever since - illegality behind the scenes
illegal working towards impeachment
censorship from day one
obstruction from day one
Politicians pushing for negative behind the scenes, and to interrupt people if you see them
then the police business is recorded
national protests - followed by national riots & more
turning down assistance & allowing take overs and violence to continue
defund the police
censoring the news
lies lies lies lies lies
supporting protesters and denying violence - while blaming the right
election year suppression & censorship
election influencing by the MSM & social media
election changes - mail in ballots and late counting
Fraud that did take place in election - compared to huge accusations that didn't pan out
refusal to concede
Then event followed by march to capitol - and the folks that decided to turn criminal and think they could take over the capitol and reverse the election?

All holy hell breaks loose and many want the president out instantly, or via 25th amendment or impeached and quickly removed
fighting with Pence to sign up for that, which he refused

I do think that some, who might never have before - who now see that writing and 8 days and things now solidified - willing to go along with these options as it is better for their futures at this point
these rioters, those that went beyond the march, are undoubtedly 100% wrong and criminals. No excuses and no covering. But as Abbey stated - these folks are no representative of all Trump supporters, said yesterday myself. No way no how. In fact, I would say that Trump supporters in general are against this violence bullshit and against these illegal tactics of ANY kind.

Then for starters, it's the hypocrisy that irritates most other Trump supporters who now must condemn these folks AND take a beating ourselves as we do so, as we're all being lumped into the same pile. The left and the MSM and the collection of protests and riots this year - was massive. Day after day after day. Hundred and more days in a row before a single days rest before instantly starting up again. During that time, things were mainly supported by the left and talked of like they were some kind of heroes for taking on the system. And the amount of violence that took place was supported and as a result emboldened. Not only didn't they condemn - but these folks took over and stayed for weeks at a time enjoying their handiwork and violent ways. And then any violence or destruction addressed, was quickly blamed on Trump or folks on the right. So it just continued and skyrocketed. And hell, even those that helped - stormtroopers? All bad cops that needed to be removed and defunded? :rolleyes: And the destruction, endless statues, was again supported as if they all needed to go. And how many homes, businesses and more were burned down or destroyed? Maters not, they have insurance. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

And then more and more right folks, proud boys and other groups, and then groups of right and left folks fighting. Of course the right was mainly blamed for showing up at the wrong events.

And now this capitol event was the killer of the year. Brought to THEIR doorstep. But wrong no matter who brought it there. Doesn't excuse nor allow for it. And of course all of the presidents involvement and words.

ALL sides involved and ALL sides guilty at various times, even though - during the year - I think the left was more so guilty - but that matters not right now. But it does matter as to the long picture and how we got here. And ain't no one innocent in that respect. Why I'm saying it's more than a one story thing, the entire story must be told, and blame can't be quickly applied. Natural to want to blame one person, one side. And definitely so in this instance, as it wasn't Pelosi doing wrong at the capitol. But overall, a chain of events, a chain of idiocy from all sides, a chain of irresponsible, a chain of idiotic media & a long long list of politicians dropping things in and fanning the flames.

[Kathianne]

I hear how upset some are that Trump is once again 'on trial' especially since it seems just a pile on after the past 4+ years, especially after the lies of last impeachment, the unceasing harassment he endured for the entirety of his term, the condescension towards his supporters-right up until today.

I don't disagree with the unfairness that was done to him. Perhaps he wouldn't have done what he has if things had been different. Then again, perhaps the level of unfairness wouldn't have been what it was, if he was not what what he had always been? It's was both his attraction for some and repulsive to others.

I don't think anyone saw what has come to be.

[fj1200]

Interesting that you singled out Trump. Did I not say virtually all pols do it? Is Trump not in political office? Of course it applies to him. Did I defend him? I believe I accused him of very poor judgement at a minimum.

Why are you so determined to still attack Trump when he is days away from being gone? What is your beef exactly?

If I’m honest it seems like you came here with some urgent need to get everyone to denounce Trump, and apologize for voting for him. Since we all know how you’ve felt about him from the start, it’s not looking very objective, fj.

Because he was the one being turned on I guess. My apologies if I inferred incorrectly. :)

My beef is he screwed it all up. I don't think he would have lost Georgia if he hadn't whine incessantly before and after the election. I think we'd have two Republican senators going forward if he hadn't whined incessantly and had a midnight change of mind about $2000 checks. He possibly could have won if he would have run a better campaign. He possibly could have won if he didn't throw away chances in a debate to cogently identify why he deserved 4 more years. As bad as this past year as been I'm stunned he came as close as he did.

Did I not make clear that I voted for him this go 'round? He's awful but Biden and Harris are so much worse especially with leftist populism behind them. Him winning four years ago has more than paid off for what I hoped for back then but his true colors are really coming forward aren't they? Defend him, denounce him, I clearly have little sway on what people do but if anyone is going to do either then I would hope that they would at least have arguments as to why.

And really, pretty much anyone should have to do at least a little denouncing given this past week. And I am trying to be at least a little objective.

[Kathianne]

Because he was the one being turned on I guess. My apologies if I inferred incorrectly. :)

My beef is he screwed it all up. I don't think he would have lost Georgia if he hadn't whine incessantly before and after the election. I think we'd have two Republican senators going forward if he hadn't whined incessantly and had a midnight change of mind about $2000 checks. He possibly could have won if he would have run a better campaign. He possibly could have won if he didn't throw away chances in a debate to cogently identify why he deserved 4 more years. As bad as this past year as been I'm stunned he came as close as he did.

Did I not make clear that I voted for him this go 'round? He's awful but Biden and Harris are so much worse especially with leftist populism behind them. Him winning four years ago has more than paid off for what I hoped for back then but his true colors are really coming forward aren't they? Defend him, denounce him, I clearly have little sway on what people do but if anyone is going to do either then I would hope that they would at least have arguments as to why.

And really, pretty much anyone should have to do at least a little denouncing given this past week. And I am trying to be at least a little objective.

I really think he messed up with covid, NOT WITH WHAT HE DID, but what he said and how he said it. "Twelve minutes later, Baron was fine, allowed. The resilience of youth."

So many other lies when the truth would have served him well. He turned off the oldsters and pissed off parents stuck between kids and parents.

[fj1200]

I really think he messed up with covid, NOT WITH WHAT HE DID, but what he said and how he said it. "Twelve minutes later, Baron was fine, allowed. The resilience of youth."

So many other lies when the truth would have served him well. He turned off the oldsters and pissed off parents stuck between kids and parents.

One look at Europe proves that out.