Is it possible that Trump may have actually lost the election?

[gabosaurus]

I ask this for the following reason --- During the 2016 election campaign, Trump made frequent mention of Dems working to steal the election from him. And how, if he lost, it would surely be proof of election fraud. Trump won the electoral college vote, so nothing else was said. During the 2020 election campaign, Trump also made frequent mention of how the only way he could lose was if the Dems stole the election from him. It will be the dirtiest, most dishonest election ever, filled with multiple cases of voter fraud. Trump ended up losing by over seven million votes. Almost immediately, charges of election fraud came from everywhere. I have to wonder if Trump's ego was so huge that he is unable to grasp the idea of losing? It reminds me of a recent situation in Zimbabwe, where the dictator stated that his losing an election was proof that the voting was fraudulent. So he tossed out the results and refused to abide by it. Was Trump planning to stay in office even if he lost?

[SassyLady]

I ask this for the following reason --- During the 2016 election campaign, Trump made frequent mention of Dems working to steal the election from him. And how, if he lost, it would surely be proof of election fraud. Trump won the electoral college vote, so nothing else was said. During the 2020 election campaign, Trump also made frequent mention of how the only way he could lose was if the Dems stole the election from him. It will be the dirtiest, most dishonest election ever, filled with multiple cases of voter fraud. Trump ended up losing by over seven million votes. Almost immediately, charges of election fraud came from everywhere. I have to wonder if Trump's ego was so huge that he is unable to grasp the idea of losing? It reminds me of a recent situation in Zimbabwe, where the dictator stated that his losing an election was proof that the voting was fraudulent. So he tossed out the results and refused to abide by it. Was Trump planning to stay in office even if he lost?

It's not just Trump who refuses to believe he lost. Over 70 million people believe he won.

[gabosaurus]

What about the 80 million people who voted for Biden and believe that he won. Most don't believe in election fraud because it has yet to be proven. Don't they have a say in this? How many court challenges are necessary for Trump supporters to believe the published results. If the submitted election results say that Biden ended with more votes and more electoral college reps, why do so many still believe Trump won? Some of us don't put much stock in conspiracy theories.

[SassyLady]

What about the 80 million people who voted for Biden and believe that he won. Most don't believe in election fraud because it has yet to be proven. Don't they have a say in this? How many court challenges are necessary for Trump supporters to believe the published results. If the submitted election results say that Biden ended with more votes and more electoral college reps, why do so many still believe Trump won? Some of us don't put much stock in conspiracy theories.

You never put stock in the Russiagate conspiracy?

I'm sure those that actually legally voted for Biden believe he won. However, you implied that Trump's ego was keeping him from believing he lost. I'm thinking he agrees with over 70 million people that believe he won, especially if you throw out the illegal votes.

You probably think the Hunter Biden stuff is a conspiracy. Or the Swalwell China connection is a conspiracy. Tell me Gabby, do you believe either if those stories? Or, is it just negative news about liberals that are conspiracies?

[LongTermGuy]

It's not just Trump who refuses to believe he lost. Over 70 million people believe he won.

Thats a Big 10-4 Sassy! For `some reasons`... only Americans can see all the evidence & corruption from the left (Democrats) it "appears"

[Russ]

It's certainly possible that Trump lost the election. But I believe it is quite possible Trump won the election.

Unfortunately, the entirety of believing that Trump lost the election depends on believing either of two things:
1. The Dem party would never resort to massive voter fraud in battleground states.
--or--
2. If the Dem party did resort to massive voter fraud, they would get caught.

#1 doesn't require much discussion. Of course the Dem party would eagerly engage in massive voter fraud in battleground states if that's what it would take to get Trump out of the White House. There isn't much they would not resort to doing to get rid of Trump, including releasing stolen or fabricated IRS tax returns of his to the media.
I would also say that if the Dem party were against voter fraud, then they wouldn't have pushed massive mail-in voting, no-ID voting, same-day registration, and not checking voter signatures on ballots.

#2 can be discussed. Would they get caught if they engaged in voter fraud? Quite possibly not. Let's face it, CNN is not going to investigate. Neither would NY Times or Washington Post. The voting places where overnight massive surges in votes for Biden occurred are in big-city, deep-blue precincts. They are not going to investigate - if there is fraud, then they are probably the ones who did it, and then dumped all the evidence. In short, CNN and Dem-leaning poll workers saying "there was no fraud" does not count for much. These people sacrificed their integrity and credibility a long time ago.

I've said this before - the best evidence of fraud or no fraud is in the voting statistics. Do the voting statistics in the battleground match what would be expected or do they show anomalies? I'd like to see that. if the battleground state voting stats match those of non-battleground states, I could be convinced. But I bet they don't. More than that, I bet that they don't want to show us the stats.

[icansayit]

What about the 80 million people who voted for Biden and believe that he won. Most don't believe in election fraud because it has yet to be proven. Don't they have a say in this? How many court challenges are necessary for Trump supporters to believe the published results. If the submitted election results say that Biden ended with more votes and more electoral college reps, why do so many still believe Trump won? Some of us don't put much stock in conspiracy theories.

The CONSTITUTION is at work until the Electoral College votes. BIDEN DID NO GET 80 MILLION VOTES (LEGALLY) AND EVEN "YOU" SHOULD BE SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW IT!https://media1.tenor.com/images/ea7ba0cffbe1a0d80a75fe52feb59dcf/tenor.gif?itemid=19082624

[KarlMarx]

Wrong question, Gabby. The right question is did Pennsylvania violate Article II Section 1 Clause 2 of the United States Constitution when its Judiciary and Secretary of State changed election law. Also , in accordance with Pennsylvania Law, changes to election law must first be voted on in a general referendum. The answer to that question is Yes Pennsylvania violated the US Constitution and its own laws.

Second question. Did Georgia, Michigan, and other states violate the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment when it treated Republican votes in a prejudicial manner in relation to Democrat votes. The answer to that question is Yes they did

Which brings us to the third question. In light of the answers to the first two questions was the outcome of the 2020 election determined in a legal and fair manner? The answer is plainly No.

You miss the whole point of the argument. We are not as concerned with who won the election as much as we are concerned with how the election was conducted.

The events of 2020 compel us to ask is this, are we a country that is governed by laws or governed by mobs? Considering the behavior of the Left, both before and since Election Day, one would think it was the latter.

But also consider this. That is, that since the election, the Right did not have a single riot, did not burn a single building, did not loot, pillage or carry on like the BLM and Antifa “peaceful protesters”. Instead we seek a remedy through the process of law. That is something the LEFT AND ITS SUPPORTERS should learn to do.

[gabosaurus]

But also consider this. That is, that since the election, the Right did not have a single riot, did not burn a single building, did not loot, pillage or carry on like the BLM and Antifa “peaceful protesters”. Instead we seek a remedy through the process of law. That is something the LEFT AND ITS SUPPORTERS should learn to do. Or, perhaps you can acknowledge that the highest voter turnout in American history decided that they no longer wanted Trump in the White House. A lot of Republicans won down ballot races in every state. Why are you diminishing their victories by spinning a bunch of unproven conspiracy theories that only benefit one candidate? Trump lost the popular vote in 2016 but still claimed a "mandate from the people" by winning the electoral college. This year, Trump lost both the popular vote and the electoral college. How is that not a "mandate from the people?" Trump used the entire impeachment charade to claim that Dems were trying to remove a president that was voted in by the American public. Yet now Trump is trying to use the courts to remove a president-elect that was voted in by the American public. Anyone want to explain that?

[icansayit]

Or, perhaps you can acknowledge that the highest voter turnout in American history decided that they no longer wanted Trump in the White House. A lot of Republicans won down ballot races in every state. Why are you diminishing their victories by spinning a bunch of unproven conspiracy theories that only benefit one candidate? Trump lost the popular vote in 2016 but still claimed a "mandate from the people" by winning the electoral college. This year, Trump lost both the popular vote and the electoral college. How is that not a "mandate from the people?" Trump used the entire impeachment charade to claim that Dems were trying to remove a president that was voted in by the American public. Yet now Trump is trying to use the courts to remove a president-elect that was voted in by the American public. Anyone want to explain that?


Using his rightful obligation as President to let the Constitution do what it was designed to do. Of course...YOU, gabby, despise using the Constitutional way and ignore the REAL FACT that Joe Biden IS NOT THE PRESIDENT ELECT.

[KarlMarx]

Or, perhaps you can acknowledge that the highest voter turnout in American history decided that they no longer wanted Trump in the White House. A lot of Republicans won down ballot races in every state. Why are you diminishing their victories by spinning a bunch of unproven conspiracy theories that only benefit one candidate? Trump lost the popular vote in 2016 but still claimed a "mandate from the people" by winning the electoral college. This year, Trump lost both the popular vote and the electoral college. How is that not a "mandate from the people?" Trump used the entire impeachment charade to claim that Dems were trying to remove a president that was voted in by the American public. Yet now Trump is trying to use the courts to remove a president-elect that was voted in by the American public. Anyone want to explain that?

Unproven conspiracy theories.... there are hundreds if sworn affidavits, under penalty of perjury, from eye witnesses to fraud. There is a video that shows democratic poll counters altering votes. These are just two examples of “unproven conspiracy theories”

The record turnout you cite includes Trump voters who are fed up with the BLM bullshit, the impeachment, the phony Russian collusion story (which qualifies as an unproven conspiracy theory), the rioting, and the Democratic obstruction if a duly elected President.

Trump won the 2016 election the same way every president (except for two) won. He got a majority of the electoral votes. Refer to Amendment XII. Popular mandate was never part of the Constitution.

Using the courts to remove a president elect. That’s the crux of the matter, most Republicans and 30+ percent if Democrats believe the election was stolen. So, just because the mob says Joe Biden won, we should disenfranchise 80 million voters?

Oh, and one more thing. If Trump won this election, don’t you think for a minute that Joe Biden’s team wouldn’t be appealing to the Supreme Court to do exactly what Trump is doing now. But then it wouldn’t be circumventing the will of the People would it?

[jimnyc]

Or, perhaps you can acknowledge that the highest voter turnout in American history decided that they no longer wanted Trump in the White House. A lot of Republicans won down ballot races in every state. Why are you diminishing their victories by spinning a bunch of unproven conspiracy theories that only benefit one candidate? Trump lost the popular vote in 2016 but still claimed a "mandate from the people" by winning the electoral college. This year, Trump lost both the popular vote and the electoral college. How is that not a "mandate from the people?" Trump used the entire impeachment charade to claim that Dems were trying to remove a president that was voted in by the American public. Yet now Trump is trying to use the courts to remove a president-elect that was voted in by the American public. Anyone want to explain that?

Why did you delete the numbered questions KM asked and spoke of, the stuff about the constitution and it being violated?

[jimnyc]

Wrong question, Gabby. The right question is did Pennsylvania violate Article II Section 1 Clause 2 of the United States Constitution when its Judiciary and Secretary of State changed election law. Also , in accordance with Pennsylvania Law, changes to election law must first be voted on in a general referendum. The answer to that question is Yes Pennsylvania violated the US Constitution and its own laws.

Second question. Did Georgia, Michigan, and other states violate the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment when it treated Republican votes in a prejudicial manner in relation to Democrat votes. The answer to that question is Yes they did

Which brings us to the third question. In light of the answers to the first two questions was the outcome of the 2020 election determined in a legal and fair manner? The answer is plainly No.

You miss the whole point of the argument. We are not as concerned with who won the election as much as we are concerned with how the election was conducted.

The events of 2020 compel us to ask is this, are we a country that is governed by laws or governed by mobs? Considering the behavior of the Left, both before and since Election Day, one would think it was the latter.

But also consider this. That is, that since the election, the Right did not have a single riot, did not burn a single building, did not loot, pillage or carry on like the BLM and Antifa “peaceful protesters”. Instead we seek a remedy through the process of law. That is something the LEFT AND ITS SUPPORTERS should learn to do.

Excellent!

Which is what I've pointed out repeatedly, and folks around the country just ignore all of this. The integrity doesn't mean much to everyone. Pennsylvania clearly violated rights and stepped on the COTUS in the name of 2020 votes. And it won't be changed, unless for the future. That's proven though, as is much more fraud around the country. I understand the left only wants to point out the final numbers - but not as much interest in how it got there, even if it means such violations.

[tailfins]

Let's remember that if Pennsylvania is declared for Trump, that he still loses the election. Nonetheless, it would prevent such sloppy election practices from continuing.

[gabosaurus]

Why did you delete the numbered questions KM asked and spoke of, the stuff about the constitution and it being violated? Because they are all unproven conspiracy theories. If you want to believe them, fine. I haven't seen proof or evidence of any of the listed charges. The Trump people have filed about 50 law suits contending illegal and unethical acts and lost all of them. Including one before the Supreme Court. My primary point is that, in attempting to throw out votes from four different states, the Trump people would be nullifying the results of every state and local race in those four states. Not that it would matter to Trump, who is only thinking of himself.

[jimnyc]

Because they are all unproven conspiracy theories. If you want to believe them, fine. I haven't seen proof or evidence of any of the listed charges. The Trump people have filed about 50 law suits contending illegal and unethical acts and lost all of them. Including one before the Supreme Court. My primary point is that, in attempting to throw out votes from four different states, the Trump people would be nullifying the results of every state and local race in those four states. Not that it would matter to Trump, who is only thinking of himself.

How is it a conspiracy theory?

They MUST go through the legislative body in order to make changes to how the election process is ran. It's in the constitution. It's a matter of public record as to how the changes were made, and it DID NOT go the constitutional way. And they MUST go that route that they didn't.

What KM wrote:


Pennsylvania violate Article II Section 1 Clause 2 of the United States Constitution when its Judiciary and Secretary of State changed election law. Also , in accordance with Pennsylvania Law, changes to election law must first be voted on in a general referendum. The answer to that question is Yes Pennsylvania violated the US Constitution and its own laws.

Now, how a judge rules is anybody's guess - but it shouldn't be. The constitution is clear, and they never went through the legislative body as spelled out.