Chris Christie: GOP Can't 'Blindly' Back Trump on Voter Fraud

[jimnyc]

Trust me when I say I wanted Trump to win this election badly, for quite a few reasons. I didn't give in instantly nor did I give up on Trump. I'm just looking at things realistically at times & trying to separate the bogus stories from legit, but that's pretty difficult at this moment.

I think Christie is correct here. Kath and myself have already stated as much as well - if you're going to be saying that fraud took place over and over - then you should spread it out for all to see, and at this point needs to be more than a few thousand dead... and I just believe that if they had such damaging evidence as they state - why wouldn't they be sharing it left and right already?

Of course I could be wrong, know to happen every now and every other day. :)

---

Chris Christie: GOP Can't 'Blindly' Back Trump on Voter Fraud

Republicans need to start acknowledging Democrat Joe Biden's declaration of victory in the contested presidential election, and President Donald Trump must present evidence of voter fraud, according to former Trump transition staffer Chris Christie.

"It was so important early on to say to the president, if your base is for not conceding, if that there was voter fraud, then show us," Christie told ABC News' "This Week." "Show us.

"Because if you can't show us, we can't do this. We can't back you blindly without evidence."

Christie added there is going to be a breaking point for Republicans, including himself who has considered Trump a "friend."

"I'm hoping that more Republicans move in the direction of saying, 'not that we don't support the president,' he's been a friend of mine for 20 years, but friendship doesn't mean that you're blind," Christie said. "Friendship means that you will listen to somebody, give them their opportunity, and if they don't come forward with the proof, then it's time to move on."

Trump is not making it easy on Republicans to stay loyal amid the pending legal battles in battleground states.

"This was a very contentious election," Christie said. "You have the president sitting in the White House not acknowledging it. And I think there's lots of Republicans who are trying to feel their way around that."

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/chrischristie-voter-fraud-evidence/2020/11/08/id/996015/

[icansayit]

Trust me when I say I wanted Trump to win this election badly, for quite a few reasons. I didn't give in instantly nor did I give up on Trump. I'm just looking at things realistically at times & trying to separate the bogus stories from legit, but that's pretty difficult at this moment.

I think Christie is correct here. Kath and myself have already stated as much as well - if you're going to be saying that fraud took place over and over - then you should spread it out for all to see, and at this point needs to be more than a few thousand dead... and I just believe that if they had such damaging evidence as they state - why wouldn't they be sharing it left and right already?

Of course I could be wrong, know to happen every now and every other day. :)

---

Chris Christie: GOP Can't 'Blindly' Back Trump on Voter Fraud

Republicans need to start acknowledging Democrat Joe Biden's declaration of victory in the contested presidential election, and President Donald Trump must present evidence of voter fraud, according to former Trump transition staffer Chris Christie.

"It was so important early on to say to the president, if your base is for not conceding, if that there was voter fraud, then show us," Christie told ABC News' "This Week." "Show us.

"Because if you can't show us, we can't do this. We can't back you blindly without evidence."

Christie added there is going to be a breaking point for Republicans, including himself who has considered Trump a "friend."

"I'm hoping that more Republicans move in the direction of saying, 'not that we don't support the president,' he's been a friend of mine for 20 years, but friendship doesn't mean that you're blind," Christie said. "Friendship means that you will listen to somebody, give them their opportunity, and if they don't come forward with the proof, then it's time to move on."

Trump is not making it easy on Republicans to stay loyal amid the pending legal battles in battleground states.

"This was a very contentious election," Christie said. "You have the president sitting in the White House not acknowledging it. And I think there's lots of Republicans who are trying to feel their way around that."

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/chrischristie-voter-fraud-evidence/2020/11/08/id/996015/

Does this remind you of anything???
All of the Never Trumpers are just doing the C.Y.A. for Biden's phony smiles.
http://icansayit.com/images/rinologo.png

[Abbey Marie]

We need to give him a chance to investigate. How can we produce proof immediately? Remember Gore?

If after some time passes there is no proof I will give up. But it’s too soon now. We all just voted.

[Kathianne]

We need to give him a chance to investigate. How can we produce proof immediately? Remember Gore?

If after some time passes there is no proof I will give up. But it’s too soon now. We all just voted.

I'm not giving up, I'm just not, and never have been on the side of doing 'the opposition would...' I think now and have always thought everyone should follow the constitution and chose actions in favor of supporting the country.

I think the President has a legitimate complaint, but should certainly tempter both his behavior and his words. Not the first time I've thought that but perhaps the most important point in time in his presidency. What he's doing and knows that many of his supporters are in full: Reject and resist. It has been a travesty that has been done to him since 2015, when Obama et al. conspired to first prevent then worked to overturn his position. Ultimately it led to people who had rejected him to support him.

Like 2000 Gore, he has every right to work at using the legal system to investigate what many, (likely including some who did not even vote for him), feel very uncertain about. The possibility of fraud is real, indeed it seems that there certainly was some. So, what to do? Let the lawyers do what they can-very small window to get things done. Unlike the normal legal system-I mean just try to rush a divorce in less than a month! They need to gather information, witnesses, depositions, etc., by mid-December at the latest.

Having Trump railing about FOX news, unfairness, stolen elections, when only the election results are of import, is wrong. No side issues, this is a serious problem and should be dealt with in serious way. Not undermining our government even more than the past 12 years already have. Chaos is not a good way to rule, especially not fired up by charges of racism, (Obama) or conspiracies, (Trump). Let's recall birtherism, which was a problem for all until Trump was elected. None of this is healthy, including what the dems have done and encouraged. I don't want to be part of something that is the same in different colors, but from supporters rather than Dems and supporters. I don't want civil war, though so many have been so eager from both sides. AOC and others want camps for dissenters. I can think of a few that would like to kill more than a few Dem leaders with their bare hands, I mean why turn to the legal system when one can just call something fake through their 'unfairness?'

There actually seems to be a mix of issues to address, through more than 3 states-which is really a huge hill to climb. It would help when the lawyers hit the courts not to start with getting reprimanded by the judges. They need to present as much evidence as possible; give as reasonable explanation of possible wrongdoing and the ways they'd like to expedite investigation to ensure confidence in the system. Something like that.

Playing, 'this country sucks' is unlikely to get us either the return of office or lessen damage to the country.

Thinking back to Gore-his first instinct was to concede. Clinton allies convinced him to withdraw the concession and many, if not most thought it was wrong of him. Yet, that was it for stirring contention, after that, "Count the votes." When it finally came towards the reasonable deadlines to get things finally certified, the court stepped in and called the election. Neither side had done much to stir up the electorate, just fought over the ballots-dems and rep. When it ended, it was done. That some in Gore's campaign quietly were working to 'never repeat' that kind of retreat? What has it brought us? What has gotten better? From those tables and ballots of FL, arose the mists that would bring Obama and Trump and what about the United States?

I'm worried. I think Trump has been maligned. What I'm not convinced of is his coming out of this miasma is going to be in any way positive, win or lose. His odds of winning are so very small, which doesn't mean he should give it his all-the problem is his 'all' has so many negative side effects, which has been my problem with the man from the start. If he could let the system play out, I'd feel so much better. He should fight, but stop the 'stealing' without being able to prove it.

If he keeps going bombastic, even if eventually able to overturn the results? We, the People, will be more divided than ever. He was starting from a position of many reasonable people feeling like he had to proceed, too many questionable actions during the election, including the length of time and methods of voting.

If he lets the lawyers do whatever they need to do; work at the transition and keep quiet about enemies and conspiracies; prepare for outcome-right or wrong and how to address his supporters. It's reported he is talking about 2024 campaign; he's talked of returning to his great life and perhaps a tv channel for conservatives. If he works though this one crisis-whatever the outcome-without adding more of his personality to the chaos, I think he will be a hero to his supporters and even some that were on the very edge and went Biden. He should 'fight on,' with class, keeping in mind Washington or something.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

We need to give him a chance to investigate. How can we produce proof immediately? Remember Gore?

If after some time passes there is no proof I will give up. But it’s too soon now. We all just voted.

Gore went on for 41 days.
And the dems were cheering him the entire time.
Now they call for trump to give it up because a newspaper ran a headline claiming that Biden won...
There is a process, and there is a very real matter of fraud.
I say the American people deserve to let this be played out and see what is revealed.
We know--THEY-- cheated. It is what they always do...
I say, " fkk 'em, feed 'em fish-heads" ...--Tyr

[jimnyc]

We need to give him a chance to investigate. How can we produce proof immediately? Remember Gore?

If after some time passes there is no proof I will give up. But it’s too soon now. We all just voted.

I hear ya and agree.

And regardless of what the media or democrats say, that's exactly what is going to take place. Many folks will ensure of that and cover every state and every vote and electorate.

I just think, that knowing Trump, that if there was anything else in the fraud department we would know about it. So from what I see there won't be enough to overcome. You have to look into software glitches, check dead people rolls, folks watching the count and anyone denied to do so, other/any incoming possibly fraudulent ballots in the middle of the night or other fraudulent ways.

They do legally deserve the time to recount or check the ballots. And then if things are still a decent lead then it's over. I don't see anything changing, but Trump does have that right.

[Kathianne]

I hear ya and agree.

And regardless of what the media or democrats say, that's exactly what is going to take place. Many folks will ensure of that and cover every state and every vote and electorate.

I just think, that knowing Trump, that if there was anything else in the fraud department we would know about it. So from what I see there won't be enough to overcome. You have to look into software glitches, check dead people rolls, folks watching the count and anyone denied to do so, other/any incoming possibly fraudulent ballots in the middle of the night or other fraudulent ways.

They do legally deserve the time to recount or check the ballots. And then if things are still a decent lead then it's over. I don't see anything changing, but Trump does have that right.

Again, I agree. I'll add that there hasn't been time yet to 'get all the evidence.' Part of the problem is that time is the most precious commodity regarding all of this. It's why I pray he'll just do his job and let the lawyers and investigators do theirs. Go on with preparing for a new administration, while also preparing for the small odds that the election could end differently-and if it does-God take care of us all! Seriously, if looking under the rocks uncovers massive dirty tricks, there will be unbelievable chaos. I still believe that come what may, everyone is going to have to deal.

Don't waste this time on getting retribution, there will be plenty of time for revenge down the road. Bringing more chaos into this situation, which is Trump's go to, will not help anyone during these next 12 weeks or so. He doesn't have to concede, just don't talk about it in public. Don't rile up his base, they are riled enough.

Let surrogates get out and talk about the Middle East, China, virus-what he's done and bring up these massive events of Biden's supporters. Talk about the economy through surrogates. This is not the time for Trump to be Trump. He was for the last couple of weeks and in spite of whatever shenanigans there were, came within a whisker of winning anyways. That was after covid and seriously, he was sort of like Superman. I really think for his own health, mental and physical, he needs others-lawyers and surrogates-to carry the water now. In less than a few weeks at most, the decision will come, it's now out of his hands.

No matter what happens, he has so many breathtaking accomplishments, achieved while powerful enemies did all they could to bring him down, literally. Then again, he was his own worst enemy. He couldn't just talk with pride at his achievements, he had to compare how awful everyone else was-whether another head of state; his opposition party; and those not singing praises to him from his own. Even when he had near total success, he alienated so many. That is not a GOOD look for anyone.

At some point, we need to find a way to live with those that disagree with us. We've had two administrations in a row that seriously want to destroy those that think differently. If the results of this election stand as is likely, I don't think there will be bridges built. Most on both sides believe the other is not only wrong, but coming from an evil place. They need to be destroyed and that is not healthy. I pray that conservatives keep the Senate and there are enough purple votes from Dems to start some flips on important votes. Keep a check on the push from the socialists/communists, including whomever pulls Biden's strings. Same with Harris if/when Biden is gone.

Dangerous times indeed.

[Kathianne]

If this is already posted, I didn't see it. Pretty much says much of what I was saying, without getting lost in evening thoughts:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/11/a-successful-presidency-a-maddening-president/




A Successful Presidency, a Maddening President
By ANDREW C. MCCARTHY November 7, 2020

President Trump did many good things. But he never recognized the majesty of the presidency as something to rise to.


This being modern America, nothing is final until the courts have spoken (particularly the Supreme Court, which has been too timid to say much). That process must be allowed to play out. To my knowledge, there is no hard evidence at this point of anything so monumental that it could change the result, but disturbing anecdotal reports merit investigation. And Biden’s margin of victory is so razor-thin in some states that recounts may be warranted if the president chooses to press the matter.


Undoubtedly, post-election litigation would be pursued if the shoe were on the other foot. Democrats, after all, went straight to the litigation mat when they lost a close one in 2000, even though Al Gore had been on the cusp of conceding. And “the Resistance” spent three years not accepting the outcome of the 2016 election, on the basis of a bogus “Russia collusion” narrative ginned up by the Clinton campaign. In this era, we take matters far less consequential than the election of our president to court. I’m not suggesting that this is a good thing, I’m simply stating a fact.


Our Two Minority Parties
Let’s take a deep breath and let matters play out. There is no crisis of the regime. Joe Biden is presumptively President-elect Biden. He will be my president and the president of all Americans — even as many of us vigorously oppose much of what he wants to do, as we surely will. He should get the chance to be a good president that Democrats never gave Donald Trump. For Biden’s sake, and especially for the country’s, the departments and agencies of government should prepare for a smooth transition of power.


Meanwhile, the states do not need to certify their results until December 8 (really, they have until December 14, the day states must report to Congress). Biden has so far struck the right tone in urging patience and calm through the tense days of ballot-counting. It will boost his standing as a legitimate president to encourage an orderly process of court challenges while, of course, pressing his rights in that process.


For those who supported the president’s reelection (including me), the result is hard to swallow. It was not, however, hard to see coming.


In 2016, Trump barely won a close election against a historically weak and deeply unpopular Democratic candidate for whom there was little enthusiasm. In 2020, Trump faced a very weak but not nearly as unpopular Democratic candidate – and while there was little enthusiasm for Biden, the desire to defeat Trump was rabid in the Democratic base. Given the statistical miracle of Trump’s 2016 triumph, he was going to have to do more than marginally better this time in order to win. He outperformed expectations, but he did not outperform 2016.

The power of the presidency can mask a lot of deficiencies. Yet the hole in which the improbable Trump presidency began is worth revisiting. In her endless “I wuz robbed” dirge, Hillary Clinton never tired of saying she’d won the popular vote. That was not just irrelevant in constitutional terms, since the state races (translated by the Electoral College) decide the outcome; it was also Clintonian spin to deflect attention from the fact that she did not win a popular majority. But what does that say about Trump?




The popular vote is a useful snapshot of the then-new president’s standing on January 20, 2017. He got 3 million fewer votes than someone who herself could not crack 50 percent. He’d somehow won what was essentially a two-way race with just 46 percent of the vote. Out of nearly 140 million votes cast, 54 percent of Americans voted against him. If a statistically negligible number of voters in a handful of states had gone the other way, there would have been no talk of a populist revolt. The story would have been that Clinton, a Washington-establishment eminence, cruised to the victory the Smart Set and all the polls had predicted. The New Yorker would gleefully have published its ready-to-run cover.


The right way to look at Trump’s unlikeliest of triumphs was as a gift . . . and an opportunity. It was a chance to appeal to Republican skeptics and the vast middle, to do the hard work of changing a 46–54 deficit into 54–46 support, and beyond. Trump had the policies to do that, along with a unique way of appealing to voting blocs who’d tuned out traditional Republicans.


Yet the president could never get over himself.



That was clear from the start. Instead of coming to grips with the low level of support with which he started his term, the president bantered from the beginning about his “Electoral College landslide.” It was an ironic illusion of broad support: Trump had been known to call the Electoral College a “disaster for democracy,” and his EC margin of victory actually ranks in the bottom fifth in U.S. election history. But he talked up the “landslide” nonetheless — while his administration “hit the ground running” by absurdly displaying skewed aerial-photograph evidence bizarrely intended to prove that his inaugural crowd was bigger than Barack Obama’s.


An unpopular president’s surest first step to becoming a reelected president is the realization that he has a lot of work to do with the public, especially with convince-ables willing to give him a chance – which is a lot of people, because most Americans are not hardcore partisans; they like to like their president. Such self-awareness spurred Richard Nixon to reelection in one of American history’s biggest actual landslide victories — in the Electoral College and by every other measure.


Donald Trump never could go there. He was under siege more than he deserved to be, but he brought a great deal of it on himself by gratuitously punching down at non-entities he should have ignored. Just as important, when troubles came, and they came in waves, he would recede into the comfort of his adoring base. They made excuses for his every foible, spun his errors as the shrewd maneuvering of a master businessman, and never demanded that he clean up his act. To the contrary, they found the act irresistible, just as he found his place at the center of the world’s attention irresistible — whether commanding attention for good or bad reasons.


President Trump did many good things. The constitutionalist overhaul of the federal judiciary will be his great legacy, especially if a President Biden revives Obama-era “pen and phone” governance. Trump has shown that the U.S. economy still roars when government removes suffocating regulation, and that its growth can be a boon to Americans at the ladder’s lower rungs. He has given Republicans a workable template for appealing to black and Hispanic Americans. He has reshaped policy toward China in a way more realistic for dealing with a hostile competitor. He has marginalized the Iranian menace and reoriented Middle Eastern policy, achieving peace pacts that were once inconceivable. He has been unabashedly pro-life (and was I ever wrong in thinking this was just a 2016 campaign pose). He has shown Republicans that the culture war is worth fighting without apology, rather than surrendering bit by bit.


Still, how maddening that he never recognized the majesty of the presidency, befitting its awesome duties, as something to rise to, as something worth striving to be worthy of. He never seemed to grasp that the great power of the presidency is that when the president speaks, it means something — and that forfeiting this power is ruinous. He never seemed to understand that, in a country where we like to like our president, when your policies are more popular than you are, you’ve got a problem.

[Kathianne]

Socialists and Communists from within? Trump undermining from within?

If they actually do this, it is "Making me sorry I voted for him this time." Why screw up a record of so many success, by going out in worst possible way?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-plans-to-revive-campaign-style-rallies-as-he-pursues-legal-challenges-to-election-results


Trump plans to revive campaign-style rallies as he pursues legal challenges to election results
rumps’ campaign plans to take less traditional path to challenging the results of the election
Andrew O'ReillyBy Andrew O'Reilly | Fox News


...

[tailfins]

Socialists and Communists from within? Trump undermining from within?

If they actually do this, it is "Making me sorry I voted for him this time." Why screw up a record of so many success, by going out in worst possible way?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-plans-to-revive-campaign-style-rallies-as-he-pursues-legal-challenges-to-election-results


I think these post-election rallies are just a fund raising confidence scheme. Start rolling out Trump TV and call it a day.

[Abbey Marie]

I was specifically responding to Christie’s demand that Trump “show us the proof now”. It’s absurd. And I’m sure Chris has an agenda behind it.

I believe in Trump’s right to investigate any and all irregularities. In fact, I’d be very disappointed if he did not. How he handles his communications about it is a separate issue, and in my opinion, less important. I expect him to be as Twitter-brash as ever.

As an aside, I see multiple headlines every day still ridiculing everything about him.

[Kathianne]

I was specifically responding to Christie’s demand that Trump “show us the proof now”. It’s absurd. And I’m sure Chris has an agenda behind it.

I believe in Trump’s right to investigate any and all irregularities. In fact, I’d be very disappointed if he did not. How he handles his communications about it is a separate issue, and in my opinion, less important. I expect him to be as Twitter-brash as ever.

As an aside, I see multiple headlines every day still ridiculing everything about him.

I think both Jim and I agree on the right to investigate any and all irregularities, within the timeline of the process-which is a hard one, I believe it is Dec. 14 when the electors meet. So while he has the 'right' for all and any, I would think his team would be best to concentrate on those that will either give him a win OR highlight true, provable fraud by specific parties. Chasing a few hundred votes, here and there? Not only a waste of time-which is in very short supply-but also comes with the cost of harming his legacy and trying to build on non-progressives pulling together somewhat.

Of course he can continue to rant on Twitter, which if there was a real loss, could probably be laid at the keyboard or keypad that he uses. Now he can be perceived as someone who has been 'done wrong' since 2015 and is trying to follow the process for redress OR he can keep screaming about stolen, fraudulent elections-without backing it up. Again, undoing any attempts at building up a coalition, however shaky between conservatives and moderates, (independents and moderate Dems).

The emo type of twitter that he is so brash about, is not for the good of the country, party, etc., It's to make him feel good or attempt to make others feel bad-which won't work.

[SassyLady]

I'm OK with taking time to verify that only legal views are counted. This corruption, or I guess the PC word is "irregularities", needs to stop before there is a civil war.

I believe that Trump feels he is a representative of the common man/woman fighting the elites. He is our voice against big tech, media, lobbyists, deep state, corrupt politicians, etc. No one is listening to polite conservatives so he feels the need to be "louder", hence his rallies to let his supporters know he hears us.

[jimnyc]

I'm OK with taking time to verify that only legal views are counted. This corruption, or I guess the PC word is "irregularities", needs to stop before there is a civil war.

I believe that Trump feels he is a representative of the common man/woman fighting the elites. He is our voice against big tech, media, lobbyists, deep state, corrupt politicians, etc. No one is listening to polite conservatives so he feels the need to be "louder", hence his rallies to let his supporters know he hears us.

Yup, verify and triple verify & then also looking into all fraud and irregularity reports. All need to be looked into, both to reflect the appropriate vote count & also to ensure the integrity of our elections going forward. Dems want to ignore and deny all irregularities & have the media declare the winner. :rolleyes:

Biden may very well win - but election fraud and cheating has been proven beyond a doubt - even as the left and CNN types still swear to this moment that it doesn't exist and never did.

[Abbey Marie]

I'm OK with taking time to verify that only legal views are counted. This corruption, or I guess the PC word is "irregularities", needs to stop before there is a civil war.

I believe that Trump feels he is a representative of the common man/woman fighting the elites. He is our voice against big tech, media, lobbyists, deep state, corrupt politicians, etc. No one is listening to polite conservatives so he feels the need to be "louder", hence his rallies to let his supporters know he hears us.

I agree, S. He is behaving very much as always. All while fighting constant articles and newscasts that start with the phrase, “President-elect Biden”, before the electors even meet. How galling it must be if he believes the election was somehow rigged against him.

I think we will look back on this as the moment in time when the United States’ elections turned third-world corrupt. And turning back will be near impossible if he doesn’t fight it, win or lose. I find that so much more important than the optics of him fighting a possibly losing battle.