Doctors refuse to fix builder's broken ankle unless he quits smoking

[MtnBiker]

A man with a broken ankle is facing a lifetime of pain because a Health Service hospital has refused to treat him unless he gives up smoking.

John Nuttall, 57, needs surgery to set the ankle which he broke in three places two years ago because it did not mend naturally with a plaster cast.

Doctors at the Royal Cornwall Hospital in Truro have refused to operate because they say his heavy smoking would reduce the chance of healing, and there is a risk of complications which could lead to amputation.

They have told him they will treat him only if he gives up smoking. But the former builder has been unable to break his habit and is now resigned to coping with the injury as he cannot afford private treatment.

He is in constant pain from the grating of the broken bones against each other and has been prescribed daily doses of morphine.

Mr Nuttall, of Newlyn, Cornwall, broke the ankle in a fall in 2005. Initially he refused surgery because he had caught MRSA at a different hospital four years earlier, and was terrified of history repeating itself.

He hoped the fractured bones would knit together with a standard plaster cast to immobilise his ankle.

But six months and three plaster casts later, it became clear that an operation to pin the bones was the only solution.



Full Story (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=481617&in_page_id=1770&in_poll_id=18353)

Universal health care making personal decisions for people. Again I asked when is approach going to happen with overweight people?

[5stringJeff]

Freakin' statist assholes.

[Kathianne]

While I wish to quit smoking, it's crap like this and the 'bans' that are eroding our private property rights, that keep me rethinking. Nazis.

[emmett]

If he were paying for the treatment himself it would be out of line but the taxpayers are paying for it and they have a legitimate concern, right?


Word of the day: Sarcasm

Let's elect Hillary and we too can have a system that denies BASIC services to citizens out of concern that they are not a good investment.

Don't get me started on health care tonight y'all. I'm in a motel room with nothing better to do so I'm warning ya!

[Missileman]

Full Story (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=481617&in_page_id=1770&in_poll_id=18353)

Universal health care making personal decisions for people. Again I asked when is approach going to happen with overweight people?

I disagree. Patients have responsibilities too. This guy only needs to stop smoking until his surgical wounds heal. He's making the choice to continue smoking over ending his pain.

[Ruby]

Are people here pretending that insurance companies dont place limitations on patients behavior or even flat out refuse payment for services the doctor recommends? Insurance companies will turn down payment because they say a test or treatment isnt neccessary or is too experimental etc.

How about the guy who loses his insurance because he loses his job? He can find another job but they wont cover him or dont offer health benefits...he has a PRE-EXISTING condition so no insurer will cover him. He dosent qualify for medicaid because he works and makes too much money to qualify.

[Said1]

Full Story (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=481617&in_page_id=1770&in_poll_id=18353)

Universal health care making personal decisions for people. Again I asked when is approach going to happen with overweight people?


The doctor who treated my mother for an circulation related infection told her to lose weight and begin an exercise program or go somewhere else. She HAD to lose weight, or she would die, but not before she lost her leg. He literally asked how she wanted to die "limb by limb, massive stroke etc". She already had a heart attack on the operating table during a simple operation when she broke her ankle, similar to the man described in the article.

I know two other people who were told to quite smoking or go to anther doctor and surgeon. One had a smoking related illness, the other one didn't, but continued smoking would have contributed to the likely hood of re-occurance.


In these cases, it was the doctor's as well as the patients choice. They're all alive and much healthier today having followed the doctor's adivse/threats.

[5stringJeff]

How about the guy who loses his insurance because he loses his job? He can find another job but they wont cover him or dont offer health benefits...he has a PRE-EXISTING condition so no insurer will cover him. He dosent qualify for medicaid because he works and makes too much money to qualify.

If the tax code were changed so that insurance premiums were deductible from individuals income taxes, not companies' income taxes, then people would be able to keep their health insurance from job to job. They would also be more choosy about where they got their health insurance from, which would lead to lower costs across the board.

More freedom = lower costs.

[82Marine89]

If he were paying for the treatment himself it would be out of line but the taxpayers are paying for it and they have a legitimate concern, right?



I disagree. His ankle and the costs that would be associated with a lifetime of treatments due to arthritis and other problems such as lower back pain due to a limp far outweigh the control of his lungs.

[truthmatters]

Do you people realise they told him he could go pay for it himself ?

Do you realise there are millions of Americans who could not even afford to go get the cast redone here?

At least this guy has a choice in America more and more people have even less choices than this guy.

[Dilloduck]

Full Story (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=481617&in_page_id=1770&in_poll_id=18353)

Universal health care making personal decisions for people. Again I asked when is approach going to happen with overweight people?

Another Doctor would gladly take this guys money and give him the treatment he desired IF he were free to do so. Telling citizens who they can get treatment from and what kind of treatment they will receive doesn't sound like a democracy to me.

[truthmatters]

Another Doctor would gladly take this guys money and give him the treatment he desired IF he were free to do so. Telling citizens who they can get treatment from and what kind of treatment they will receive doesn't sound like a democracy to me.



Full Story

They have told him they will treat him only if he gives up smoking. But the former builder has been unable to break his habit and is now resigned to coping with the injury as he cannot afford private treatment.



They already told him he could go get private care people!

He can do that in england folks just like here.
You keep having the misconception that there is no private care there.

[Dilloduck]

Full Story

They have told him they will treat him only if he gives up smoking. But the former builder has been unable to break his habit and is now resigned to coping with the injury as he cannot afford private treatment.



They already told him he could go get private care people!

He can do that in england folks just like here.
You keep having the misconception that there is no private care there.

Then people who are for socialized medicine need to know what they are up against. Give up freedom to get health care.

[truthmatters]

Then people who are for socialized medicine need to know what they are up against. Give up freedom to get health care.

What is the freedom this guy would have more of in our system?

[Dilloduck]

What is the freedom this guy would have more of in our system?

None---but just think of the billions that would be saved by not funding a health care system that tells people what they have to do in order to receive treatment.
This argument is going to come back to bite you in the ass when some women isn't allowed to have her 5th abortion without being sterilized.

[manu1959]

why do you all feel a doctor should not be able to refuse service.....

[truthmatters]

None---but just think of the billions that would be saved by not funding a health care system that tells people what they have to do in order to receive treatment.
This argument is going to come back to bite you in the ass when some women isn't allowed to have her 5th abortion without being sterilized.

So I dont care if they do as long as she can go to a private Dr and get it herself if she doesnt want to be sterilized.

What you are refusing to see is this guy has more choice than an American and I have no problem with him getting this refusal.

Dr will refuse someone the same here already because of fear the perso will bleed out and not survive the opperation because of the smoking.

You see you people are whining about false bullshit as if it has any bearing on our medical system as it is.

This guy can be refused treatment , insurance here already due to his smoking.

[emmett]

why do you all feel a doctor should not be able to refuse service.....

Well, ther is this oath they take. It says something about healing the sick. I don't remember where it covers deciding who should be healed.

A doctor's job is to heal. PERIOD!!!!!!! Now, what part of that is not clear.

OK, this part. We live in a society where we feel we have to overscrutinize everything. The man just needs a bone set. It isnt cancer surgery. He cannot afford it. OK, his fellow man has to pay for it. Can he pay it back if he can walk? What additional cost is the injury going to incur if he is not repaired. Will he become a further burden on his fellow citizens. Will theyhave to pay to support his family? Seems it would be easier to just set the man's leg and let him heal. Gamble on him paying the money back and go on.

[manu1959]

Well, ther is this oath they take. It says something about healing the sick. I don't remember where it covers deciding who should be healed.

A doctor's job is to heal. PERIOD!!!!!!! Now, what part of that is not clear.

OK, this part. We live in a society where we feel we have to overscrutinize everything. The man just needs a bone set. It isnt cancer surgery. He cannot afford it. OK, his fellow man has to pay for it. Can he pay it back if he can walk? What additional cost is the injury going to incur if he is not repaired. Will he become a further burden on his fellow citizens. Will theyhave to pay to support his family? Seems it would be easier to just set the man's leg and let him heal. Gamble on him paying the money back and go on.


hippocratic oath .... esentially it is "do no harm" ......

Original, translated from Greek....per wiki......http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath

“ I swear by Apollo, Asclepius, Hygieia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgment, the following Oath.
To consider dear to me, as my parents, him who taught me this art; to live in common with him and, if necessary, to share my goods with him; To look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art.

I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.

To please no one will I prescribe a deadly drug nor give advice which may cause his death.

Nor will I give a woman a pessary to procure abortion.

But I will preserve the purity of my life and my arts.

I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is manifest; I will leave this operation to be performed by practitioners, specialists in this art.

In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves.

All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession or in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be spread abroad, I will keep secret and will never reveal.

If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all men and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my lot.



doctors refuse to operate all the time....the man is a high risk case ....

tough shit...quit smoking and get better...

[Dilloduck]

Well, ther is this oath they take. It says something about healing the sick. I don't remember where it covers deciding who should be healed.

A doctor's job is to heal. PERIOD!!!!!!! Now, what part of that is not clear.

OK, this part. We live in a society where we feel we have to overscrutinize everything. The man just needs a bone set. It isnt cancer surgery. He cannot afford it. OK, his fellow man has to pay for it. Can he pay it back if he can walk? What additional cost is the injury going to incur if he is not repaired. Will he become a further burden on his fellow citizens. Will theyhave to pay to support his family? Seems it would be easier to just set the man's leg and let him heal. Gamble on him paying the money back and go on.


Healing isn't the agenda here. The system wants the man to change his lifestyle in order to receive treatment provided by the taxpayer.

[Dilloduck]

hippocratic oath .... esentially it is "do no harm" ......

doctors refuse to operate all the time....the man is a high risk case ....

tough shit...quit smoking and get better...

And get sterilized to get an abortion that's paid by the taxpayer.

[truthmatters]

Do you understand that this guy would very likely NOT HEAL if his dody can not recover from a surgery?

Do you understand that if his blood will not clot and is too thin he will not EVER heal from the surgery and will die of infection?

They want him to stop smoking to increase his ability to heal from the surgery.

He can live with a broken ankle and very well may NOT live with an open wound which refuses to heal.

Learn about what the real situation intails before you go making up your mind about things.

It is a tendancy I see from people on the right in this site to make your decision BEFORE you have all the information.

It makes for bad decisions.

[MtnBiker]

What is the freedom this guy would have more of in our system?

The freedom of choice to place money in a health system that helped him. He has paid into the government system with this result. If he did choose to pay for health care at another place that would in addition to what he had already paid the government. Is that what you want people paying twice for the health care they want?

[MtnBiker]

doctors refuse to operate all the time....the man is a high risk case ....

tough shit...quit smoking and get better...

True enough, he is a health risk. I see the problem that indicated in the story other options are avaible to him but at addtional cost. Is that what universal heath care will provide, heath care for people that pose little risk?

[Dilloduck]

Do you understand that this guy would very likely NOT HEAL if his dody can not recover from a surgery?

Do you understand that if his blood will not clot and is too thin he will not EVER heal from the surgery and will die of infection?

They want him to stop smoking to increase his ability to heal from the surgery.

He can live with a broken ankle and very well may NOT live with an open wound which refuses to heal.

Learn about what the real situation intails before you go making up your mind about things.

It is a tendancy I see from people on the right in this site to make your decision BEFORE you have all the information.

It makes for bad decisions.

The tendency I see from YOU is to assume that people don't have all the information that you have.( or claim to have)

[manu1959]

Do you understand that this guy would very likely NOT HEAL if his dody can not recover from a surgery?

Do you understand that if his blood will not clot and is too thin he will not EVER heal from the surgery and will die of infection?

They want him to stop smoking to increase his ability to heal from the surgery.

He can live with a broken ankle and very well may NOT live with an open wound which refuses to heal.

Learn about what the real situation entails before you go making up your mind about things.

It is a tendency I see from people on the right in this site to make your decision BEFORE you have all the information.

It makes for bad decisions.

well....he could take clotting medicne...or thinners (smokers blood is thick) and oxygen therapy would make up for the lack of oxygen....and before you tell me i am wrong...guess what.....i broke my leg...sprial fracture.....i smoked and was refused surgey....but guess what i found a doctor that prescribed oxygen therapy and blood medication....worked out just fine....

[manu1959]

True enough, he is a health risk. I see the problem that indicated in the story other options are avaible to him but at addtional cost. Is that what universal heath care will provide, heath care for people that pose little risk?

no it will be a two class health care system same as now.....there will be universal health car and private health care....unless hillary bans private health care insurance....

[truthmatters]

The freedom of choice to place money in a health system that helped him. He has paid into the government system with this results. If he did choose to pay for health care at another place that would in addition to what he had already paid the government. Is that what you want people paying twice for the health care they want?


You need to read my above post.

You people are jumping to conclusions about why they have mad this decision.

This same thing happens to people here who have insurance and they can be dropped from the insurance after paying in for YEARS AND YEARS and left with nothing.

This guy is being refused one procedure for medical reasons and will have all other situations still taken care of under the UK system where the person here who is refused by their insurance co gets absolutly nothing.

[Dilloduck]

You need to read my above post.

You people are jumping to conclusions about why they have mad this decision.

This same thing happens to people here who have insurance and they can be dropped from the insurance after paying in for YEARS AND YEARS and left with nothing.

This guy is being refused one procedure for medical reasons and will have all other situations still taken care of under the UK system where the person here who is refused by their insurance co gets absolutly nothing.

That is a lie. There is no guarantee that this man will recieve treatment for ALL other situations.

[Kathianne]

Do you understand that this guy would very likely NOT HEAL if his dody can not recover from a surgery?

Do you understand that if his blood will not clot and is too thin he will not EVER heal from the surgery and will die of infection?

They want him to stop smoking to increase his ability to heal from the surgery.

He can live with a broken ankle and very well may NOT live with an open wound which refuses to heal.

Learn about what the real situation intails before you go making up your mind about things.

It is a tendancy I see from people on the right in this site to make your decision BEFORE you have all the information.

It makes for bad decisions.

Funny how so many did heal before the anti-smoking craze took hold. The exception would be that he developed the complications you are saying are to be expected. Lung cancer, asthmas, other related bronchical difficulties, sure. Now that the doctor, personally wouldn't do surgery? Ok, as long as the whole medical community didn't refuse such.

[truthmatters]

No some did not heal back in those days either.

They just did not know the smoking was effecting its healing.

Do you really think smoking is not bad for someones health and that all the studies are just wrong?

[MtnBiker]

no it will be a two class health care system same as now.....there will be universal health car and private health care....unless hillary bans private health care insurance....

She would not ban private health care, because she herself will never use universal health care.

[MtnBiker]

Do you really think smoking is not bad for someones health and that all the studies are just wrong?

Nobody is arguing that. Yes smoking is bad and bad for you.

[Dilloduck]

No some did not heal back in those days either.

They just did not know the smoking was effecting its healing.

Do you really think smoking is not bad for someones health and that all the studies are just wrong?

Those who cannot afford their own health care should be forced to do whatever doctors tell them before they receive treatment.

[truthmatters]

Those who cannot afford their own health care should be forced to do whatever doctors tell them before they receive treatment.


Then you agree with that mans Drs.

Im glad to hear it.

Now if they told him to do something which made no differance to his treatment maybe I would find some fault in it.


LETS GET THIS STRAIGHT no one and I mean no one has suggested banning private treatment.

[Dilloduck]

Then you agree with that mans Drs.

Im glad to hear it.

Now if they told him to do something which made no differance to his treatment maybe I would find some fault in it.


LETS GET THIS STRAIGHT no one and I mean no one has suggested banning private treatment.

:laugh2: and who is going to make the FINAL call as to what effects a persons' treatment ?

[MtnBiker]

LETS GET THIS STRAIGHT no one and I mean no one has suggested banning private treatment.

But why have private treatment if universal healthcare is available?

[Dilloduck]

But why have private treatment if universal healthcare is available?

So those who actually PAY for thier treatment can get exactly what they want, of course !! :laugh2:

The others have to jump though all the hoops that the government creates.

[truthmatters]

But why have private treatment if universal healthcare is available?

Why not ?

If a Drs wants to sell his services and not be part of the universal system he/she has a right to iis a free country.

many will sell cosmetic surgery

[Dilloduck]

Why not ?

If a Drs wants to sell his services and not be part of the universal system he/she has a right to iis a free country.

many will sell cosmetic surgery

no--you have proved yourself that it is only free if you can pay for it. If you can't ,then you have to modify your lifestyle to get treatment.

[Kathianne]

No some did not heal back in those days either.

They just did not know the smoking was effecting its healing.

Do you really think smoking is not bad for someones health and that all the studies are just wrong?

"Some" Not "Likely won't" get the difference? Then again, where are the discussions about other causes for non-healing? Never mind, smoking, like George Bush, is guilty of all.

[truthmatters]

"Some" Not "Likely won't" get the difference? Then again, where are the discussions about other causes for non-healing? Never mind, smoking, like George Bush, is guilty of all.

Ask a Dr about surgery and a two pack a day smoker.

[manu1959]

Ask a Dr about surgery and a two pack a day smoker.

i have.....and i know the answer.....:fu:

[truthmatters]

i have.....and i know the answer.....:fu:

I love you too manny.

[Dilloduck]

I love you too manny.

That's heartwarming but do you think the poor should receive different medical care than the rich ?

[truthmatters]

That's heartwarming but do you think the poor should receive different medical care than the rich ?

They do now.

They always will.

I just want to get basic medical care to all people.

Preventative care alone would bring the costs way down because you would head off the cases which spiral into severe medical conditions and keep people from using our emergency care (the most expensive type of care) for basic care.

[Dilloduck]

They do now.

They always will.

I just want to get basic medical care to all people.

Preventative care alone would bring the costs way down because you would head off the cases which spiral into severe medical conditions and keep people from using our emergency care (the most expensive type of care) for basic care.

Good for you---then let's fix this poor bastards broken leg and quit pissing and moaning about his smoking.

[truthmatters]

Good for you---then let's fix this poor bastards broken leg and quit pissing and moaning about his smoking.

They tried with three castings and it did not heal, this is why they are sure his surgery wont heal.

His quiting smoking is the only thing they can do to help him heal.

I dont think American needs to fly him over here and pay for his medical care do you?

[Missileman]

Good for you---then let's fix this poor bastards broken leg and quit pissing and moaning about his smoking.

I think you're operating under the MISTAKEN notion that these doctors are trying to coerce someone into quitting smoking by withholding treatment.

[Abbey Marie]

Full Story

They have told him they will treat him only if he gives up smoking. But the former builder has been unable to break his habit and is now resigned to coping with the injury as he cannot afford private treatment.



They already told him he could go get private care people!

He can do that in england folks just like here.
You keep having the misconception that there is no private care there.

Cool. Then doctors should be able to refuse to give a woman an abortion until she agrees to give up sex.

[Missileman]

Cool. Then doctors should be able to refuse to give a woman an abortion until she agrees to give up sex.

Yeah, doctors everywhere are being forced to perform abortions on sluts who can't keep their legs closed...it's a regular epidemic! :rolleyes:

[Kathianne]

They do now.

They always will.

I just want to get basic medical care to all people.

Preventative care alone would bring the costs way down because you would head off the cases which spiral into severe medical conditions and keep people from using our emergency care (the most expensive type of care) for basic care.

cool, let's set up a 'fuck you' list:

smoke
drink too much
bad genetics
live in polluted environment, determined by those that count
have given birth more than 1.02 times

[Abbey Marie]

Yeah, doctors everywhere are being forced to perform abortions on sluts who can't keep their legs closed...it's a regular epidemic! :rolleyes:

I'm surprised to see you on the side of limiting personal freedom. Maybe I have a misperception of you?

If doctors can be allowed to refuse treatment based on personal behavior, it should be applicable across the board.

And yes, abortion is an epidemic to many of us.

[truthmatters]

cool, let's set up a 'fuck you' list:

smoke
drink too much
bad genetics
live in polluted environment, determined by those that count
have given birth more than 1.02 times


That is what the insurrance Cos already do.

The Drs made their descision by how well this guy could heal.

who do you suggest make the decisions in a medical case?

[Abbey Marie]

That is what the insurrance Cos already do.

The Drs made their descision by how well this guy could heal.

who do you suggest make the decisions in a medical case?

Hmm, let's see. His body, his choice. How's that sound?

[Missileman]

I'm surprised to see you on the side of limiting personal freedom. Maybe I have a misperception of you?

If doctors can be allowed to refuse treatment based on personal behavior, it should be applicable across the board.

And yes, abortion is an epidemic to many of us.

Name one doctor who's been FORCED to perform an abortion.