Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
04-26-2020, 08:48 PM
Islam is utter tyranny and contrary to our values and freedoms. All religions are essentially insane, but none moreso than the adherents of the God of Abraham, who's in fact Satan. The Founders understood this which is why the Separation Clause.
“The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”
— John Adams
:clap:
I must disagree my friend.....
Islam is a destructive force, a military driven operation disguised as a religion.
No comparison with the other two main religions, Christianity and Judaism..
Islam is so completely different and operates on use of fear, force, compulsion, intimidation and savagery.
Its 1400+ years has been one of murder, pillaging, forced slavery, raping, stoning, modern time terrorism, etc, etc, etc.
As to the Adams's quote.
Adams's quoted opinion- does not jive well with history on the Founding and the other great Statesmen leaders of the early founding of this great nation, imho.-Tyr
link--
https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2009/05/07/obama-is-wrong-when-he-says-were-not-a-judeo-christian-nation
Obama Is Wrong When He Says We're Not a Judeo-Christian Nation
We have not abandoned the principles upon which we were founded.
By J. Randy Forbes, Contributor May 7, 2009, at 3:15 p.m.
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U.S. News & World Report
Obama's Wrong—We're Judeo-Christian
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ON APRIL 6, 2009, President Obama, speaking halfway across the world in Turkey, effectively made a shocking proclamation: that the United States did not consider itself a Judeo-Christian nation.
"Although, as I mentioned, we have a very large Christian population, we do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation," he said. I do not challenge his right to make that statement, nor do I doubt that he believes it to be true. But there were two critical questions that he failed to ask and answer. First, did America ever consider itself a Judeo-Christian nation? Secondly, if it did, what was the moment or event in which it ceased to do so?
Our nation's history provides overwhelming evidence that America was birthed upon Judeo-Christian principles. The first act of America's first Congress in 1774 was to ask a minister to open with prayer and to lead Congress in the reading of four chapters of the Bible. In 1776, in approving the Declaration of Independence, our founders acknowledged that all men "are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights..." and noted that they were relying "on the protection of Divine Providence" in the founding of this country. John Quincy Adams said, "The Declaration of Independence laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity." Also, the signers of the 1783 Treaty of Paris, which ended the Revolutionary War, insisted the treaty begin with the phrase, "In the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity."
In 1800, Congress approved the use of the Capitol building as a church. Both chambers approved the measure, with president of the Senate, Thomas Jefferson, giving the approval in that chamber. Throughout his terms as both vice president and president, Jefferson attended church at the Capitol, including Jan. 3, 1802, just two days after writing his infamous letter in which he penned the phrase "the wall of separation between church and state." Nearly 100 years later, in 1892, in Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States, the United States Supreme Court held that America is a "Christian nation."
Presidents Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Jackson, McKinley, Teddy Roosevelt, Wilson, Hoover, FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Reagan all referenced the importance of Judeo-Christian principles in the birth and growth of our country. In fact, President Franklin Roosevelt led our nation in a six-minute prayer before the invasion of Normandy, the greatest military invasion in history where freedom was protected for the world, asking God to preserve our Christian civilization. After that great war, Congress came together and jointly recognized that our strength was not in our weapons, our economic institutions, or the wisdom of our committees—it is in God. Congress therefore adopted "In God We Trust" as our national motto and it was engraved in the wall in front of which the speaker of the House of Representatives stands.
So, if America was birthed upon Judeo-Christian principles, at what point in time did our nation cease to be Judeo-Christian? It was not when a small minority tried to remove the name of God from our public buildings and monuments. It was not when they tried to remove God from our veterans' flag folding ceremonies or take the motto off of our coins. Nor was it when this small minority fought to banish prayer from our schools, strip the 10 Commandments from our courtrooms, or remove the phrase "one nation under God" from the new Capitol Visitor Center.
No, the answer is clear: While America has always welcomed individuals of diverse faiths and nonfaith, we have never ceased to be a Judeo-Christian nation. That small minority could tear references of faith off of every building and document across our nation, but it would not change the fact that we were built on Judeo-Christian principles. Indeed, these beliefs are so interwoven into the tapestry of freedom and liberty upon which our nation is built that to begin to unravel one is to begin to unravel the other.
To those who feel we have ceased to be a Judeo-Christian nation, I would invite them to reexamine these principles and read H.Res.397, America's Spiritual Heritage Resolution, which chronicles some of the highlights of our nation's spiritual historical milestones and establishes a week for Americans to remember and reflect on these principles. If they do, I believe they will conclude as President Dwight Eisenhower did that, "Without God, there could be no American form of Government, nor an American way of life. Recognition of the Supreme Being is the first—the most basic—expression of Americanism. Thus the Founding Fathers saw it, and thus, with God's help, it will continue to be."
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J. Randy Forbes, Contributor
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https://nccs.net/blogs/articles/judeo-christian-roots-of-americas-founding-ideals-and-documents
Judeo-Christian Roots of America's Founding Ideals and Documents
RSS
Judeo-Christian Roots of America's Founding Ideals and Documents
Dear Friends, Most states have now put in place a series of standards and performance objectives which students must attain in order to graduate from high school. As a member of Arizona's Standards Committee for Social Studies I was anxious to get some meaningful standards in place relating to an understanding of our roots. We were successful. Two of these requirements are that students must be able to identify fundamental principles in the Declaration of Independence and also be able to explain American moral and ethical ideals which have their antecedent in the Judeo-Christian tradition. A number of teachers in my state have asked for resource material relating to these and other standards they are required to teach. In an attempt to respond to their request, the following is published as part of a more complete compilation called Sources. Sources also includes sample assessment questions for student study. Listed below are a few principles or ideals to which the Founders adhered. Given immediately following each one are passages showing Judeo-Christian roots of that principle and then passages reflecting the use of the principle in America's founding documents. This list is by no means meant to be exhaustive, but only to exemplify the concept that America's Founding ideals have their roots in Judeo-Christian tradition. It should not be surprising that the Bible is quoted often as the source of the Founders' thinking for studies have shown the Bible is by far the most often quoted source in all of the publications and speeches of the founding era.
Principle: Reliance on the Providence of God
Judeo-Christian Roots
"For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee. O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires. And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all thy borders of pleasant stones. And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children. In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee. Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake. Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy. No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD. (Isaiah 54:10 - 17)
American Founding Ideal:
"We, therefore, the representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name, and by authority of the good people of these colonies, solemnly publish and declare that these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, free and independent states; .. And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor." (Declaration of Independence. See also John Eidsmoe, Christianity and the Constitution, Baker Book House, Grand Rapids, MI, 1987, pp. 355-377)
Principle: Law of God forms basis of good human laws
Judeo-Christian Roots
"The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. (Psalms 19:7 - 8)
American Founding Ideal:
"Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be." John Adams, February 22, 1756 (Federer, William J., America's God and Country Encyclopedia Of Quotations , FAME Publishing, Coppell, Texas, 1994, p.5) "These laws laid down by God are the eternal immutable laws of good and evil .... This law of nature dictated by God himself, is of course superior in obligation to any other. It is binding over all the globe, in all countries, and at all times: no human laws are of any validity if contrary to this... "The doctrines thus delivered we call the revealed or divine law, and they are to be found only in the holy scriptures ... [and] are found upon comparison to be really part of the original law of nature. Upon these two foundations, the law of nature and the law of revelation, depend all human laws; that is to say, no human laws should be suffered to contradict these. William Blackstone (Federer, p.52)
Principle: Religion and Morality form basis of Liberty
Judeo-Christian Roots
"Proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof." (Leviticus 25:10) "Ye have not hearkened unto me, in proclaiming liberty, every one to his brother, and every man to his neighbor: behold, I proclaim a liberty for you, saith the Lord." (Jeremiah 34:17) "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." (2 Chronicles 7:14) "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (John 8:32)
American Founding Ideal:
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams (Federer, p. 10) "It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible" George Washington (Federer, p.660) "Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports.... And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion ... Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail to the exclusion of religious principle." George Washington's Farewell Address
Principle: The Equality of Man
Judeo-Christian Roots
"Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him. Ye shall not respect [discriminate against] persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it." (Deuteronomy 1:16-17) "Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect [discriminate against] the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbor." (Leviticus 19:15) "God is no respecter of persons (Acts 10:34) "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:28)
American Founding Ideal:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal." Declaration of Independence "No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States" U.S. Constitution, Art. I, Sec. 9, Paragraph 8)
Principle: God-Given Human Rights
Judeo-Christian Roots
"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. (Genesis 1:27 - 28) "Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. Thou shalt not covet.. (Exodus 20:13-17)
American Founding Ideal:
".that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." (Declaration of Independence)
Principle: Government authority by Consent of the Governed
Judeo-Christian Roots
"Judges and officers shalt thou make thee in all thy gates, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, throughout thy tribes: and they shall judge the people with just judgment." (Deuteronomy 16:18) "Take you wise men, and understanding, and known among your tribes, and I will make them rulers over you.. So I took the chief of your tribes, wise men, and known, and made them heads over you, captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, and captains over fifties, and captains over tens, and officers among your tribes." (Deuteronomy 1:13 - 15)
American Founding Ideal:
".governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." (Declaration of Independence) "The United States shall guarantee to every state in this Union a republican form of government" (U.S Constitution, Art. IV, Section 4)
Principle: Sanctity of Contract
Judeo-Christian Roots
"If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth." (Numbers 30:2)
American Founding Ideal:
"No state shall.pass any. law impairing the obligation of contracts." (U.S Constitution, Art. I, Section 10, Paragraph 1)
Principle: Two Witnesses
Judeo-Christian Roots
"At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death." (Deuteronomy 17:6) American Founding Ideal: "No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court." (U.S Constitution, Art. III, Section 3, Paragraph 1)
Principle: No Corruption of Blood
Judeo-Christian Roots
"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin." (Deut. 24: 6)
American Founding Ideal:
".but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted." (U.S Constitution, Art. III, Section 3, Paragraph 2)
Principle: Sabbath Day Excepted
Judeo-Christian Roots
"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work." (Exodus 20:8-10)
American Founding Ideal:
"If any bill shall not be returned by the President within ten days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the same shall be a law, in like manner as if he had signed it." (U.S Constitution, Art. I, Section 7, Paragraph 2)
Principle: Separation of Church and State
Judeo-Christian Roots
"Render therefore unto Cæsar the things which be Cæsar's, and unto God the things which be God's." (Luke 20:25)
American Founding Ideal:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. (First Amendment, U.S. Constitution)
Principle: Teaching the Law of Liberty to Next Generation
Judeo-Christian Roots
"And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. (Deuteronomy 6:7)
American Founding Ideal:
"Let [the Constitution] be taught in schools, in seminaries, and in colleges, let it be written in primers, in spelling books and in almanacs, let it be preached from the pulpit, proclaimed in legislative halls, and enforced in courts of justice. And, in short, let it become the political religion of the nation." (Abraham Lincoln, "The Perpetuation of Our Political Institutions", January 27, 1838) From this sampling it can be readily seen that no nation has a closer parallel to the Judeo-Christian tradition than the United States of America. Sincerely, Earl Taylor, Jr.
Drummond
04-27-2020, 08:23 AM
Like some of you, I've the tact of a nuclear bomb.
Strangely enough, I'd noticed. I'm sure you mean us to, don't you, to the maximum extent possible ?
So now, our form of government is in no way based upon the so called "Judeo-Christian Doctrine" (which is a religious invention). However, citizens are free to live by such a doctrine and encourage others to do the same. There's a difference between governance and living. Do your research and you'll see that our Bill of Rights is rooted in Native American Iroquois law and tradition. Nowhere in history was everything in the Bill of Rights used as a source of governance, not even the Magna Carta.
Most of this I'm not qualified to comment on in any detail. But your statement 'There's a difference between governance and living' caught my eye.
Strictly speaking, you've got a point. But just not to the unshakeable extent that you think you have.
It's surely easy to see why I'm right ?
Governance. As in, to govern. To direct. To define direction, to have a society that's cohesively viable, where its citizens can live happy and good lives.
You don't get that from chaos.
Try founding a society on anarchy. See if it lasts a week.
Governance. The passing of laws, rules by which all should live, rules borne of a sense of what's right or wrong, THEREFORE, OF NECESSITY, FROM A BELIEF-SYSTEM, existing for the health of the community. People in that community do live, and have the freedom to live good lives, because of the nature and quality of their community and society.
But without proper governance, how long would it last ? Breakdowns in society threaten to bring death upon people.
So, you're ultimately wrong. Good governance and the act of living, even if not the same, are invariably indivisible.
You want to define evil, Hot Dogger ? Lack of governance and the anarchy it brings may help you out, 'big-time'.
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