Constitutional Rights

[jimnyc]

You take one brick out of millions and millions above it, and you may see others fall, or you may never get that brick back into place.

From the beginning of this virus until now we have seen a lot of twisting and pulling of our rights. The fear level and the shock of it all, in the beginning being told we should stay home and such, it of course all makes sense. But things went slowly from recommendations to orders to fines to arrests

Then some governors extended beyond simply stay at home and ride it out for now and go out for essentials. Then we started seeing a little too much. Then the policed jumped in and tickets/fines started coming about for stupid things.

Now things are to an extent equalizing. And as we know, some states are/were hit much harder. So folks want to start planning for re-opening and getting back to normal. Fighting ensues - starting with the MSM of course.

And somewhere in the midst we started losing rights, and already talk of things not coming back, at least not as quickly.

I DO get it, I do get the rolling openings. Definitely some places should open before others, and NYC for example surely shouldn't be tops on that list! But then you have some stats not nearly hit as hard. The governors have the power to open up and even that was a fight. And now that so much as one wants to exercise that, people lose it. Another city in Texas already opened and plans for many more to start opening next week. But of course the state of Georgia got the majority of the news.

And some not understanding or comprehending our constitutional rights. First and foremost. Everyone knows this, and yet we all respected the orders and everything else to keep ourselves protected, and others as well. And I also understand that if you ain't American, you likely don't understand FULL rights as given to us as Americans. I see so many other places so willingly to let government own and control them and dictate their lives.

We refuse that here, most of us. We enjoy those rights guaranteed us in the constitution. And we have done a pretty damn solid job of keeping ourselves upright without the government wiping our asses and dictating everything allowable to us. And we can continue forward without the government holding our hands through a virus, telling us if and when we can leave our homes, where we can go, at what times, that we can or cannot earn money at the time. Or that our freedoms come or go. <---- no way, jose, they don't come and go, they are absolute.

Drummond, I can't imagine what it feels like when a respected leader of your country is in such dire emergency health as Boris was. I'm sure that may change a perspective a tad. And keep in mind, I respect him and love him!! But if he was walking around left and right shaking hands with sick folks as you say, then that was outright stupidity and has little to do with the virus outside anyway. I am, for one, thrilled that he got over it so quickly!!! I love the man. But it's not comparable to bring him up compared to the USA in any way. Outside of that, I understand where you come from, being from a vantage point of living your entire life over there, and I don't think fully enjoying things from our perspective. That's cool, I respect that. But please understand what our COTUS means to us as a whole and each individually. As I said, folks bled and died for those rights. And folks on this very board continued the fight in recent years to extend those rights for all of us Americans. We don't like to see it weakened in any manner. And of course we have learned to use our freedoms wisely.

I know this should be continued in the other thread, but didn't want Drummond to feel it was directed towards him or somehow anger towards him. This is about ALL of our rights collectively and our constitution, and any chipping away that may be going on and why we must ensure that not a single brick comes out.

[jimnyc]

1st amendment - and the pundits demanding that stations do not air Trump's press conferences. Facebook things getting deleted and folks being chastised for what they say about this virus left and right, even though folks have been wrong from the top to the bottom.

Religion. There were cops on video going up to a church and the preacher and outright telling him that his rights have been temporarily suspended.

At least 2 areas that I saw, including Virginia, are using it as an excuse to somehow change gun rights.

Freedom of assembly, problematic for protesters.

Due process. What happened to it?

New Yorkers visiting or even OWNING a place in Rhode Island, may have had the national guard, who was going around searching and evicting them!!

Look at China, forcibly removing people from their homes at will to quarantine them. Do folks agree with this? Because that's about how it starts with the above.

Once that chipping gets started, where does it stop? How many rights are to be given up? I say NONE. I still have the freedom of speech. I should still have full 2nd amendment rights. I have due process, always. It's my right to go pull up in my car safely and attend religious services.

[SassyLady]

Here's an example of overreach ..


Former police officer arrested in park for throwing ball with daughter due to coronavirus social distancing rules

The police department has apologized for the arrest, calling it an "overreach."


In an incident caught on video, a former Colorado State Patrol trooper said he was handcuffed in front of his 6-year old daughter on a near-empty softball field Sunday by Brighton police officers enforcing social distancing rules (https://abcnews.go.com/Health/social-distancing-strategies-amid-coronavirus-outbreak/story?id=69648478). The department apologized Tuesday afternoon, calling the incident an "overreach by our police officers."

Matt Mooney, 33, told ABC News he walked with his wife and daughter from their home to a nearby park Sunday to play softball.

"We're just having a good time, not near anybody else. The next closest person is at least 15 feet away from me and my daughter at this point," Mooney told ABC News.
Police arrived soon after, Mooney said, telling him and others in the area to leave because the park was closed.

Mooney said he told officers that he was familiar with the posted rules and believed he and his family were in compliance and practicing proper social distancing. He said he refused to provide his identification when officers asked for it because he had not broken any law.

"Well, they didn't like that idea. They then proceeded to make a threat against me saying, 'If you don't give us your identification, if you don't identify yourself, we're going to put you in handcuffs in front of your 6-year-old daughter.'"

Mooney said his 6-year-old daughter was scared to see her father placed in handcuffs, but said she learned a valuable lesson.

"She's learned that our constitutional rights are something worth standing up for," Mooney said. "She got to witness a violation of civil rights. She got to witness an unlawful order by the police."

In addition, Mooney said none of the officers were wearing protective gear, although he saw a face mask hanging from an officer's belt.
"They could very simply be asymptomatic, not even know they're sick, and now I've been exposed. My daughter's been exposed; my wife's been exposed," said Mooney.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-officer-arrested-park-throwing-ball-daughter-due/story?id=70032966

[Kathianne]

and how the system works. Legislatures have real power, when they choose to exercise it:

https://hotair.com/archives/ed-morrissey/2020/04/24/oh-michigan-legislature-calls-special-session-strip-whitmer-emergency-powers/


Oh My: Michigan Legislature Calls Special Session– To Strip Whitmer Of Emergency Powers
ED MORRISSEYPosted at 2:01 pm on April 24, 2020

Couldn’t happen to a nicer petty martinet, nor at a better time. Winston Churchill once wrote that bad kings make for good law, and Michigan’s legislature might put that into action in a special session starting today. After Whitmer’s arbitrary and capricious COVID-19 shutdown order put the state’s unemployment at the highest in the nation, the legislature wants immediate oversight over Whitmer’s handling of the crisis. And they want to start reviewing bills to restrict the powers that she may have abused:



In the midst of the continuing spread of the coronavirus in Michigan, the Michigan Legislature has scheduled a special session for Friday to create an oversight committee to examine how Gov. Gretchen Whitmer has responded to the crisis as well as consider bills that would strip the governor of some of her powers.


The extraordinary move, at a time when Whitmer is looking to extend her stay-at-home order past its May 1 expiration and encouraging all Michiganders to confine themselves to their homes as a way to stop the spread of the coronavirus, is a sign of an escalating rift with Republicans in the Legislature, who are eager to have her reopen the state’s economy. …


The Senate also will consider a pair of bills that would repeal the 1945 Emergency Powers of the Governor Act, which gives wide power to the governor to declare a state of emergency in times of “great public crisis.”


Another bill would amend the Emergency Management Act of 1976, which allows the governor to declare a state of emergency for up to 28 days, to reduce the number of allowable days to 14.


It’s worth noting that the legislature will end up putting these tasks on itself in the future if they pass these bills. That’s probably as it should be, but at least at the moment, Michigan’s laws make it pretty easy for the legislature to avoid hard votes and time pressures in real emergencies like the COVID-19 pandemic. In such a situation, the legislature would need to immediately come into session to issue statutory restrictions, and they’d still have to negotiate those with the governor, who — regardless of it being Whitmer or not — would be able to argue that the legislature is tying his/her hands. Be careful what you wish for is another pretty good piece of advice, even if Winston Churchill never wrote it.

Whitmer might still miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity, however. She threatened to veto any bill that limits her authority, which is certainly a governor’s prerogative — but is likely to enhance her imperial rep while essentially sticking her with all of the political blame going forward, too:




Young Americans for Liberty
✔
@YALiberty
JUST NOW: @GovWhitmer doubles down on tyranny as citizens protest her insane overreach:


"I'm not going to sign any bill that takes authority away from me..."


Anyway, at least this is how laws and regulations should get put into place. That structure prevents the kind of nonsensical diktats that Whitmer has issued over the past few weeks, such as prohibiting people from gardening or planting on their own property and moving back and forth between their own houses. After promising some changes yesterday, Whitmer rolled out an extension to her order last night to push it out to May 15, but got rid of a couple nonsensical restrictions:


Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer on Friday extended her stay-at-home order through May 15 as the Midwestern state battles to control the coronavirus pandemic, but lifted restrictions so some businesses can open and the public can participate in outdoor activities such as golfing.


The measure, which also allows use of motor boats and traveling between residences in the state, immediately replaces one that was scheduled to expire next week, according to the governor’s executive order.


“Social distancing is our best weapon to defeat this enemy,” Whitmer said in a statement. “With new COVID-19 cases leveling off, however, we are lifting some of the restrictions put in place in the previous order. I want to be crystal clear: the overarching message today is still the same. We must all do our part by staying home and staying safe as much as possible.”


Let’s also be “crystal clear” that the bar on moving between homes and operating one’s own boat had nothing to do with “social distancing.” Neither of those, nor the restrictions on gardening and planting, had any rational relation to preventing the spread of COVID-19. Whitmer banned those activities because banning them suited her own tastes, and then sneered when people objected to the overreach. To underscore that point, Whitmer refused to include abortions in a bar on elective surgeries, even though the point of that bar was to preserve masks and gowns, which abortion clinics use up in those elective surgeries.


This just proves the wisdom of distributed power between elected branches of government, but it also might prove the folly of considering Whitmer as a viable running mate for Joe Biden. It’s going to look a bit odd for Biden to pick her just as the legislature strips her authority for abusing it, especially if the idea is to improve Democrats’ chances of winning Michigan in November. Once the masks get stripped from petty martinets, it’s tough to put them back on again.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I'm hoping and praying that after this initial HYSTERIA has died down, that law suits against things that happened like this just BLOW UP, and I hope there's a place where I can DONATE some cash to help people with their legal fees.

This is just all such BS. It's really starting to tick me off, and it's not even happening to me... although... it happening to ANY American is happening to me in absentia.

[icansayit]

Found this yesterday.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeCMA1p2BU0

[Abbey Marie]

Governors tried to keep the reins loose for a while. I believe when stories like the hordes of spring breakers broke, government officials and regular folk realized that strict measures would be necessary. I do not fault anyone for making such orders. When your teen gets a speeding ticket with your car, you take away his driving privileges for a while. For his own safety.

I also believe that what I saw today in a park is what we will see in spades as things loosen up. By far most people walking right by me had zero PPE.

I don’t claim to know the answer. I do know that adaptable people make it work. Yesterday I watched a live video by a home decor shop I like. The owner was just walking around with her iPad showing all her products. People were scooping things up. I estimate she sold about 75 items in that way. Much more than she sells when the store is open.

I realize this doesn’t work for services like hair salons and barbers. Perhaps they need special rules to open with PPE and distancing and disinfecting between clients. But it could work for lots of places.

What I loathe most of all is this whole thing being political. I guess now we know- there is nothing, literally nothing, even life and death, that won’t take a back seat to politics.

[Kathianne]

Governors tried to keep the reins loose for a while. I believe when stories like the hordes of spring breakers broke, government officials and regular folk realized that strict measures would be necessary. I do not fault anyone for making such orders. When your teen gets a speeding ticket with your car, you take away his driving privileges for a while. For his own safety.

I also believe that what I saw today in a park is what we will see in spades as things loosen up. By far most people walking right by me had zero PPE.

I don’t claim to know the answer. I do know that adaptable people make it work. Yesterday I watched a live video by a home decor shop I like. The owner was just walking around with her iPad showing all her products. People were scooping things up. I estimate she sold about 75 items in that way. Much more than she sells when the store is open.

I realize this doesn’t work for services like hair salons and barbers. Perhaps they need special rules to open with PPE and distancing and disinfecting between clients. But it could work for lots of places.

What I loathe most of all is this whole thing being political. I guess now we know- there is nothing, literally nothing, even life and death, that won’t take a back seat to politics.

Most everyone was justly outraged at the behaviors on the beaches, especially knowing the FL demographics and how little was known at the time and NYC exploding with disease.

However, MI is a distance from FL. Walking in a park is very different than groups of 25 in the park or on the beach. Punishing those in Austin for the behavior of those in Miami is sort of off point?

I'm not certain how restaurants could put enough space between my table and others to make me comfortable. My behaviors will change unless/until there is a vaccine. I can't see getting on a plane for the foreseeable future or on a train or a boat that isn't just my people.

The stupidity of mayors/governors/county officials, most as I've pointed out before 'D's' have caused the backlash. Overreach tends to do that. Speed of opening, some of that is Rs trying to do the 'liberate' requested from their leader. None of this is happening in a rational way, all I hope is that it rights itself, more quickly than slowly.

[Abbey Marie]

Most everyone was justly outraged at the behaviors on the beaches, especially knowing the FL demographics and how little was known at the time and NYC exploding with disease.

However, MI is a distance from FL. Walking in a park is very different than groups of 25 in the park or on the beach. Punishing those in Austin for the behavior of those in Miami is sort of off point?

I'm not certain how restaurants could put enough space between my table and others to make me comfortable. My behaviors will change unless/until there is a vaccine. I can't see getting on a plane for the foreseeable future or on a train or a boat that isn't just my people.

The stupidity of mayors/governors/county officials, most as I've pointed out before 'D's' have caused the backlash. Overreach tends to do that. Speed of opening, some of that is Rs trying to do the 'liberate' requested from their leader. None of this is happening in a rational way, all I hope is that it rights itself, more quickly than slowly.


Of course they are far apart. But when infected numbers are ratcheting up, and you see people behaving like the spring breakers in a state where the laws are lax, many people will decide to nip that in the bud in their own state. It’s human nature.

[Kathianne]

Of course they are far apart. But when things are ratcheted my up, and you see people behaving like the spring breakers in a state where the laws are lax, many people will decide to nip that in the bud in their own state. It’s human nature.

I've seen little of the overreach in anyway 'nipping in the bud,' I see baby tyrants exerting as much control as possible and I am more or less on the same page as yourself about how folks should be handling much of this.

Here's the thing, there are now lots of cities, counties, even states that have flattened and even see the line decreasing. There are warnings that there may not be a vaccine. There are also treatments that have been shown not to be winning and some that look better and some in the middle.

Docs are learning more every day.

Some things have to open, depending on the governor and luck, I expect both bad and good news. I think we'll see spot closings and re-openings. Slowly the percentage of those infected will rise.

[Gunny]

So, the trouble-making Gunny in the corner has some questions ...

Did I miss something? Did someone in the last couple of days declare the virus defeated and gone? Or is it still killing random people?

Six weeks ago or so-ish, while everyone was demanding a National lockdown and I was asking what about our Constitutional Rights, was there no foresight into the slippery slope (the good of many outweighs the good of the few"? I saw a lot of counting dead bodies, getting excited over the "possible cure du jour, and finger-pointing and only one or two folk wondering how our Constitutional Rights were going to come out of this.

The fact is, we were going to get the flu or not, and die or not and nobody was coming to save us. I assume no one on this board got the Kung Flu because mostly we all seem to still be here.

IMO, neither answer was wrong, but they are diametrically opposed. The Rights of the individual vs the good of the community. One has to come at the expense of the other. It makes perfectly good sense to "suspend" certain Rights during certain occasions and I would say a pandemic merits such thought. BUT ... each one suspended should be closely monitored to ensure there was/is no abuse, and that such a suspension is lifted as soon as practically possible.

Seems a LOT of people weren't thinking about the latter while they were making a deal with the Devil. They are going to fight at every turn to keep those Rights and, again IMO, we will not get them all back.