Watching The President On 'Re-Opening' The Economy Through States

[Kathianne]

Trump:

Can't have health without an economy. We need to get it back very quickly. Problems are happening because of people being shut in: alcoholism; domestic abuse; depression; unemployment; education. . .

3 phases.

One step at a time. Some states sooner than later.

Protect the vulnerable populations. The healthy will be able to return to work as allowed.

Benchmark testing will be needed.

It will be gradual. Restrictions will be eased, not done away with.

Governors will be handling their own states, if they need to be closed, they will be closed. Those that are open, we will be supported.

There will be challenges ahead, any outbreaks will result in a quick response until put out. May happen in the fall, we don't know.

Testing of possible treatments are underway and will continue.

Quick tests are being produced as quickly as possible.

States are using private and state laboratories, not a bad thing, but good. CDC was trying to do entire country.

Quick tests actually take the strain off laboratories.

Science-based re-opening.
Border control.
We're all working together, shouldn't be about parties, but country. :rolleyes:

Pence :

Governors conferred with President this afternoon.

Much praise on strength and actions of Trump.

Slowing spread and flattening of curve.

More praise of Trump and health care workers.

Maps will be open to governors on states standing on cases and hospitalizations to use.
Descriptions of states' preparedness.
Task force and FEMA will be there to help states with materials including testing.
Testing and medical supplies will continue to be a partnership with the states.

Re-Opening
Will work with mitigation and watching for reemergence. Focus will be on most vulnerable.

Birx

Have gatekeeping numbers to decide what choices should be like.
Watching city-by-city; county by county.
Will do surveillance of vulnerable communities at local levels.
Every state needs to have a plan for essential workers.
Hygiene practices and social distancing must be followed, especially those staying home when sick.
Employers need to use temperature checks. No non-essential business travel. Contact tracing of sick.

All vulnerable populations must do 14 day isolation.
Employers should phase in people returning: 20%, 30%, etc.
Schools should stay closed.
Elective surgeries should be on outpatient basis.

Governors will set the timeline for phases.

Employers should encourage telework and closing of common areas.

Phase 2

Schools reopen
Elective surgeries resume

Phase 3

Good hygiene and social distancing continue

[Kathianne]

Still going on, but those are the highlights I caught.

[Kathianne]

Fauci:

Have to get through the 'gate' before each phase.
It's to prevent any large scale outbreaks.
Some states have already passed most of the requirements to enter phase 1.
Others will take more time.

[LongTermGuy]

Watching...Now `liberal media` asking Americas President questions....

[jimnyc]

Kinda what I expected, him opening nationally but governors truly in charge and can keep states closed until they are ready. The 'slow' opening of businesses and still adhering to the social distancing, all good. And of course the phases and states should be based on ongoing data for each area.

[Kathianne]

Kinda what I expected, him opening nationally but governors truly in charge and can keep states closed until they are ready. The 'slow' opening of businesses and still adhering to the social distancing, all good. And of course the phases and states should be based on ongoing data for each area.

What I said, I'd watch what he did. I did think it very important to say that the governors would be leading the opening of each state, after his own misspeaks/tweets. I don't get why he does these things. Drives me batty.

This is what I expected too, once done with the drama.

[jimnyc]

What I said, I'd watch what he did. I did think it very important to say that the governors would be leading the opening of each state, after his own misspeaks/tweets. I don't get why he does these things. Drives me batty.

This is what I expected too, once done with the drama.

I know for most it makes them nervous, and often gives the media something to bitch about, but I truly wasn't worried for a second about it. He talks too much about how great he is himself & likes to be combative with the press at any sign of them doing the same with him or playing the gotcha stuff. But behind closed doors he is much more business like and much more so takes advice from others and learns from others.

I do agree that this plan and who has the powers and who will be opening what and when is a great thing, it shows everyone who is truly in charge & who to have expectations from going forward and ending the various lockdowns.

His crap on misspeaking doesn't bother me as much anymore as I am growing used to what he says and what he believes in and what actions he takes. This was an overstep of sorts from him that is more rare. Most of it comes from his obsession on Twitter, and apparently no filter, nor anyone telling him WTF??

But the way this will be handled as far as reopening is about what I expected and predicted. Mostly because we both know where the power truly lies. And also common sense dictates to have the lesser to barely hit areas open sooner. And places with high numbers and still growing, they should they locked down until they are ready.

[Kathianne]

I know for most it makes them nervous, and often gives the media something to bitch about, but I truly wasn't worried for a second about it. He talks too much about how great he is himself & likes to be combative with the press at any sign of them doing the same with him or playing the gotcha stuff. But behind closed doors he is much more business like and much more so takes advice from others and learns from others.

I do agree that this plan and who has the powers and who will be opening what and when is a great thing, it shows everyone who is truly in charge & who to have expectations from going forward and ending the various lockdowns.

His crap on misspeaking doesn't bother me as much anymore as I am growing used to what he says and what he believes in and what actions he takes. This was an overstep of sorts from him that is more rare. Most of it comes from his obsession on Twitter, and apparently no filter, nor anyone telling him WTF??

But the way this will be handled as far as reopening is about what I expected and predicted. Mostly because we both know where the power truly lies. And also common sense dictates to have the lesser to barely hit areas open sooner. And places with high numbers and still growing, they should they locked down until they are ready.

Honestly, I wasn't 'afraid' of his ability to do what he was saying, I KNOW he couldn't. The pretense that he would even entertain such thoughts, is not reassuring. Seriously. I suppose what kept me from going totally over the top, he had no support for such a position, even from his most loyal supporters, not even his semi-supporting politicians-who tend to go with any weird ideas he comes up with. From what I saw even on here, only Drummond, who is not familiar with the Constitution or its underpinnings was the only one who saw any sort of merit in what he said/wrote. (Don't forget he didn't just tweet these thoughts, he personally expressed them on national tv.) While Sassy and BD gave support to the impossibility of such, there was no one seconding Drummond on his agreement. NOT because they don't agree with him on nearly all, but in this case, the concept was too wrong to 'thank' or 'like.' Again, not a slam at all at Drummond's thoughts, as he has his own experiences, that are different than American.

I agree totally that this was the type of plan that I think is necessary to begin. One thing I did agree with Drummond, I do hope that the Blue State governors don't throw wrenches all over the place. The country and people have been through enough. BTW, the governor of IL is a grade A ass.

[jimnyc]

Honestly, I wasn't 'afraid' of his ability to do what he was saying, I KNOW he couldn't. The pretense that he would even entertain such thoughts, is not reassuring. Seriously. I suppose what kept me from going totally over the top, he had no support for such a position, even from his most loyal supporters, not even his semi-supporting politicians-who tend to go with any weird ideas he comes up with. From what I saw even on here, only Drummond, who is not familiar with the Constitution or its underpinnings was the only one who saw any sort of merit in what he said/wrote. (Don't forget he didn't just tweet these thoughts, he personally expressed them on national tv.) While Sassy and BD gave support to the impossibility of such, there was no one seconding Drummond on his agreement. NOT because they don't agree with him on nearly all, but in this case, the concept was too wrong to 'thank' or 'like.' Again, not a slam at all at Drummond's thoughts, as he has his own experiences, that are different than American.

I agree totally that this was the type of plan that I think is necessary to begin. One thing I did agree with Drummond, I do hope that the Blue State governors don't throw wrenches all over the place. The country and people have been through enough. BTW, the governor of IL is a grade A ass.

Knowing how the COTUS works and intertwined with a national emergency on top of that, I can understand a foreigner not being aware of what such powers exist at that time. I can almost understand in seeing how one would think that one person in charge may be appropriate. But not in the case with our history and individual rights and state rights. As for what Trump stated, had very little effect on me, and less so after clarification to everyone going forward.

And as if his screwups alone weren't enough, yes, the individual governors too! Michigan is taking a ton of heat, most of it legit. How she blocked off seeds and how she blocked off boating and other things pointed out. And as you see more and more lawsuits coming about around the country. I think folks were a little more reasonable in various orders in the beginning and hearing we were all gonna be zombies soon if not - but orders and enforcement continued or grew, and folks are now growing nutsos at home and and growing tired of the orders.

And now I'm reading about NJ's governor enforcing his order as 15 men were arrested going to a synagogue. His answer as to what authority he has to override the bill of rights? He tells Tucker "It's above his paygrade".

WTF? Talk about lack of clarity. At least give an answer to express yourself properly. Folks won't have much confidence in his authority hearing crap like that!

[Black Diamond]

Knowing how the COTUS works and intertwined with a national emergency on top of that, I can understand a foreigner not being aware of what such powers exist at that time. I can almost understand in seeing how one would think that one person in charge may be appropriate. But not in the case with our history and individual rights and state rights. As for what Trump stated, had very little effect on me, and less so after clarification to everyone going forward.

And as if his screwups alone weren't enough, yes, the individual governors too! Michigan is taking a ton of heat, most of it legit. How she blocked off seeds and how she blocked off boating and other things pointed out. And as you see more and more lawsuits coming about around the country. I think folks were a little more reasonable in various orders in the beginning and hearing we were all gonna be zombies soon if not - but orders and enforcement continued or grew, and folks are now growing nutsos at home and and growing tired of the orders.

And now I'm reading about NJ's governor enforcing his order as 15 men were arrested going to a synagogue. His answer as to what authority he has to override the bill of rights? He tells Tucker "It's above his paygrade".

WTF? Talk about lack of clarity. At least give an answer to express yourself properly. Folks won't have much confidence in his authority hearing crap like that!

Should a president or governor EVER answer a question with "It's above my pay grade"?

[Kathianne]

Knowing how the COTUS works and intertwined with a national emergency on top of that, I can understand a foreigner not being aware of what such powers exist at that time. I can almost understand in seeing how one would think that one person in charge may be appropriate. But not in the case with our history and individual rights and state rights. As for what Trump stated, had very little effect on me, and less so after clarification to everyone going forward.

And as if his screwups alone weren't enough, yes, the individual governors too! Michigan is taking a ton of heat, most of it legit. How she blocked off seeds and how she blocked off boating and other things pointed out. And as you see more and more lawsuits coming about around the country. I think folks were a little more reasonable in various orders in the beginning and hearing we were all gonna be zombies soon if not - but orders and enforcement continued or grew, and folks are now growing nutsos at home and and growing tired of the orders.

And now I'm reading about NJ's governor enforcing his order as 15 men were arrested going to a synagogue. His answer as to what authority he has to override the bill of rights? He tells Tucker "It's above his paygrade".

WTF? Talk about lack of clarity. At least give an answer to express yourself properly. Folks won't have much confidence in his authority hearing crap like that!

Totally agree with the bolded, even started a thread on the protests yesterday. I believe it's now up to at least 6 states that the people are pushing back at dictatorial governors. I'm well aware that Trump isn't the only one that has visions of grandeur, thankfully these governors aren't president though. ;)

This presser was what I hoped it would be.

[Kathianne]

official site and the phases, what's included:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/openingamerica/

[Gunny]

I know for most it makes them nervous, and often gives the media something to bitch about, but I truly wasn't worried for a second about it. He talks too much about how great he is himself & likes to be combative with the press at any sign of them doing the same with him or playing the gotcha stuff. But behind closed doors he is much more business like and much more so takes advice from others and learns from others.

I do agree that this plan and who has the powers and who will be opening what and when is a great thing, it shows everyone who is truly in charge & who to have expectations from going forward and ending the various lockdowns.

His crap on misspeaking doesn't bother me as much anymore as I am growing used to what he says and what he believes in and what actions he takes. This was an overstep of sorts from him that is more rare. Most of it comes from his obsession on Twitter, and apparently no filter, nor anyone telling him WTF??

But the way this will be handled as far as reopening is about what I expected and predicted. Mostly because we both know where the power truly lies. And also common sense dictates to have the lesser to barely hit areas open sooner. And places with high numbers and still growing, they should they locked down until they are ready.SO, minus the theatrics yet another Trump verbal gaffe created, the actual plan is going ahead as it's supposed to?

Imagine that :rolleyes:

[FakeNewsSux]

My guess is three to five states opening by the end of next week with 30 to 35 states open by the first week of May.

[KitchenKitten99]

Yes, he is letting the governors do their own thing - as he should. However ... he has something over their heads to ensure THEY abide by the Constitution and Bill of Rights as well. Funding, perhaps? He has leverage, but has not revealed it. I think he almost did with those tweets. Someone must have told him to not show his cards so soon. Let the governors fall on their own swords. In that, as long as mail-in voting is not allowed, he just might be securing the biggest Red victory in many of the blue states that the US has ever seen. He's letting them show their true colors and people are pissed. So pissed that they are holding protests. There is one going on now at Gov Timmah Boy Walz's mansion in St. Paul. I would be there right now but I have the vet coming for the horses immunizations today plus 2 meetings. We will be heading out there as soon as we can log off and drive down.

That said... Have any of you read Trump's book "The Art of the Deal"? If not, do it. It gives you insight as to how he works, how his mind works, and what he does to get he deals he does and how he uses leverage of knowledge of how others think to accomplish the results he wants. He trusts his gut on many things that only sound good on paper and has avoided many losses just by that. I don't think this skill has left him in that time. It also gives insight why he is the way he is via social media and speeches, etc. He makes clear early on in the book he hates the media and journalists and he isn't much for writing or academics. He holds competence and capability higher in regard to college degrees. He hates interviews and giving speeches - declined 99% of them. He wrote this back in 1987. Do you really think that changed for him when he became president 30 years later? Yes, all of that is part of the job of being president and he knew it going into the whole thing. He chose to endure that which he despises - for the good of the country he genuinely loves. Even early on as he was bombarded with vitriol and venom, he still endured it. Not for the fame. Not for the paycheck. Not even for the control. But for the challenge and the love of the country that has afforded him the opportunities he had.

[Abbey Marie]

I know for most it makes them nervous, and often gives the media something to bitch about, but I truly wasn't worried for a second about it. He talks too much about how great he is himself & likes to be combative with the press at any sign of them doing the same with him or playing the gotcha stuff. But behind closed doors he is much more business like and much more so takes advice from others and learns from others.

I do agree that this plan and who has the powers and who will be opening what and when is a great thing, it shows everyone who is truly in charge & who to have expectations from going forward and ending the various lockdowns.

His crap on misspeaking doesn't bother me as much anymore as I am growing used to what he says and what he believes in and what actions he takes. This was an overstep of sorts from him that is more rare. Most of it comes from his obsession on Twitter, and apparently no filter, nor anyone telling him WTF??

But the way this will be handled as far as reopening is about what I expected and predicted. Mostly because we both know where the power truly lies. And also common sense dictates to have the lesser to barely hit areas open sooner. And places with high numbers and still growing, they should they locked down until they are ready.


I wasn’t worried either. People really don’t get Trump’s style. In case of the liberals, I’d say they don’t want to get it. Much better to put the absolute worst spin on everything the man says.

I do think this puts more pressure on the Governors to reopen sooner rather than later. And I still am afraid of what will happen if they do.

[Drummond]

Wow.

Just -- simply -- wow.

OK, then. American thinking on this is just about as different to the British version of it as it's possible to get.

You are all loyal to your system .. to you, it's right, and inviolable. I get that. I've literally nothing to say that you'll find 'helpful' or 'useful'.

I certainly SHALL say my piece. It'll get me nowhere, it'll not 'earn me friends', but I'll say it, all the same (freedom of speech, & all that).

Firstly .. your system of governance is so different that I'm not even confident that I fully comprehend it. Maybe there are holes in my understanding that'll make me look stupid. Or, maybe I'll just look stupid because it's an 'endearing knack' I have ...

... I don't know. Anyway:

It would be possible for the British to adapt something of our system to yours. We have local councils. We have county councils. Either / both could mirror, if we legislated accordingly, your own system of devolved power.

BUT ... our councils have certain local powers, carefully crafted so that there can be no conflict of interest, or, any ability, in governing locally versus obeying national law and national direction. We even have this - to an extent - true of country to country, where Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland (recently, in their case) have their own Parliaments and own ability to pass laws, and govern.

Still, though, the national -- as in, UK-wide -- power of governance is NOT encroached upon. Westminster can overrule to a great extent.

So it is that we have one direction in approaching Covid-19. There is no dictatorship of direction which, should Westminster insist upon it, could overrule what they wanted. Daily, we in the UK get updates on Covid figures, infection rates, death tolls, AND, what's being done on a UK-WIDE scale to combat it all. These all come from Westminster, acting for us all.

Policy direction is clear. It comes from the top, devolves down, is followed by all. Laws are passed. All must obey them.

In such a system, there is no fracturing, no County-based insurrections, no saying 'This is a law we will outlaw here'. That, to us, would be next to suicidal. A national emergency has to be met in coordinated fashion, and with unwavering direction. If it's not ... chaos, death and destruction must follow.

Let's say that one county decreed it was going to end a lockdown two weeks ahead of everybody else. Industries would start up. People would go to work ... EXCEPT ... that raw materials would be needed from another county, still in lockdown !

Let's say that people from one county decided they'd like to go for a drive, or even a stroll, and county lines were breached. One county could be forcing a re-emergence of an outbreak on another. The 'victim' county ... how should it react ?

The UK has known civil war over less than this, in ages past !

Nope. Devolving power down, rather than having it all in one place directing everything, is, to us, a recipe for chaos. Worse .. it could needlessly kill, with one county inflicting death upon another, JUST because of a difference in local policy !!

Chaos, death, destruction, all from a lack of willingness to centralise power and ensure it translates into unity of direction.

Folks, I mean no disrespect. But I do not relate to this feature of American thinking, that individual States can so critically decide their own affairs. If we tried it in the UK, we'd be watering down our very sense of national identity.

I have no capacity to comprehend the American way of doing things ... not within the context being discussed, anyway.

I salute your desire for, and sanctity of feeling for, freedom. May it serve you well.

But here, where I am, if we tried any version of your system, it'd kill an awful lot of people. We could never allow it here.

We couldn't dare to.

I shall 'absent' myself from further discussions on this subject. I've nothing to say, I think, that anyone on this forum (Pete being a possible exception, because he'd love division !) could possibly want to hear.

I wish you all well. Survive as best you can.

[Drummond]

One amendment to what I've just posted: heard moments ago on LBC, was a report where Scotland declares that it MAY be emerging from lockdown earlier than the rest of the UK.

They'll be defying the UK Government in doing so. However, relevant context needs to be observed to fully understand this: namely, that the SNP, Scotland's Government, is pushing as hard as it can to be fully separated from the UK (your equivalent might be if you saw Texas quit the United States, to become a fully standalone State ?). Theirs is an agenda of autonomy from Westminster, to be a standalone country that, once it wins Independence, will - as such - rejoin the EU.

Westminster's leadership is meant to direct policy direction to all parts of the UK. Scotland's SNP (Left wing Nationalists) apparently want to rebel against it.

[Kathianne]

Wow.

Just -- simply -- wow.

OK, then. American thinking on this is just about as different to the British version of it as it's possible to get.

You are all loyal to your system .. to you, it's right, and inviolable. I get that. I've literally nothing to say that you'll find 'helpful' or 'useful'.

I certainly SHALL say my piece. It'll get me nowhere, it'll not 'earn me friends', but I'll say it, all the same (freedom of speech, & all that).

Firstly .. your system of governance is so different that I'm not even confident that I fully comprehend it. Maybe there are holes in my understanding that'll make me look stupid. Or, maybe I'll just look stupid because it's an 'endearing knack' I have ...

... I don't know. Anyway:

It would be possible for the British to adapt something of our system to yours. We have local councils. We have county councils. Either / both could mirror, if we legislated accordingly, your own system of devolved power.

BUT ... our councils have certain local powers, carefully crafted so that there can be no conflict of interest, or, any ability, in governing locally versus obeying national law and national direction. We even have this - to an extent - true of country to country, where Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland (recently, in their case) have their own Parliaments and own ability to pass laws, and govern.

Still, though, the national -- as in, UK-wide -- power of governance is NOT encroached upon. Westminster can overrule to a great extent.

So it is that we have one direction in approaching Covid-19. There is no dictatorship of direction which, should Westminster insist upon it, could overrule what they wanted. Daily, we in the UK get updates on Covid figures, infection rates, death tolls, AND, what's being done on a UK-WIDE scale to combat it all. These all come from Westminster, acting for us all.

Policy direction is clear. It comes from the top, devolves down, is followed by all. Laws are passed. All must obey them.

In such a system, there is no fracturing, no County-based insurrections, no saying 'This is a law we will outlaw here'. That, to us, would be next to suicidal. A national emergency has to be met in coordinated fashion, and with unwavering direction. If it's not ... chaos, death and destruction must follow.

Let's say that one county decreed it was going to end a lockdown two weeks ahead of everybody else. Industries would start up. People would go to work ... EXCEPT ... that raw materials would be needed from another county, still in lockdown !

Let's say that people from one county decided they'd like to go for a drive, or even a stroll, and county lines were breached. One county could be forcing a re-emergence of an outbreak on another. The 'victim' county ... how should it react ?

The UK has known civil war over less than this, in ages past !

Nope. Devolving power down, rather than having it all in one place directing everything, is, to us, a recipe for chaos. Worse .. it could needlessly kill, with one county inflicting death upon another, JUST because of a difference in local policy !!

Chaos, death, destruction, all from a lack of willingness to centralise power and ensure it translates into unity of direction.

Folks, I mean no disrespect. But I do not relate to this feature of American thinking, that individual States can so critically decide their own affairs. If we tried it in the UK, we'd be watering down our very sense of national identity.

I have no capacity to comprehend the American way of doing things ... not within the context being discussed, anyway.

I salute your desire for, and sanctity of feeling for, freedom. May it serve you well.

But here, where I am, if we tried any version of your system, it'd kill an awful lot of people. We could never allow it here.

We couldn't dare to.

I shall 'absent' myself from further discussions on this subject. I've nothing to say, I think, that anyone on this forum (Pete being a possible exception, because he'd love division !) could possibly want to hear.

I wish you all well. Survive as best you can.

I don't think you understand what we have here, if you truly think we don't want to hear what you have to say on this or anything else. Indeed, when you were 'sold' on herd option, I wanted to know more. Enough so that when I look at where each country is going on Covid-I always check the UK, Sweden, and Brazil. Why do you think Ireland has such a higher death rate than most of UK? I never did get around to asking that.

This is an enormous country-what works in NY would not necessarily work in OH, which was already being occupied by the time the Constitution was written. OH is towards the middle of the country, unless you live in IL, then it's 'east.' LOL!

The most persuasive argument made in the Federalist Papers was that the 'Federal' government had no way of knowing what would work for the people in the local form in areas far away from the central government, thus a strong state and local system of governments needed to be maintained, (as each state/colony) before that was only loosely connected with the Confederation. Thus the 10th Amendment would specifically say that whatever powers were not GIVEN to the Federal, would be retained to the states. That is how they got the states to go along with the great experiment.

[jimnyc]

Wow.

All good Drummond, and I don't take any offense at all.

Our countries are alike in many ways and different in many ways. The most obvious is pure size and population. And having so many individual states that were founded many years ago. And those states all work together with the nation as one. It ain't easy!!

We too have local community councils, mayors in charge of individual cities, then governors, and also various representatives for congress in each state. Things are governed locally here too! But then we have a federal system and set of laws and guidelines above that, all working mostly seamlessly and within our COTUS. And as you have it, we too don't have a conflict of interest between the 2. All local laws fit within federal laws and the constitution.

And each state and locale has the ability to have their various own laws and ordinances and their own powers. But much must fit within federal laws and guidelines. But they are independent and can govern themselves as you see in this situation. Yup, confusing!

The stuff you point out can and will be problematic. Keep in mind that most 'essential' businesses are open, so things coming from other states are likely open already. But who knows 100% for sure? And yep, I asked that a few weeks back, if one opens , then how do they control incoming/outgoing traffic, if they do at all? Same with that applies to points of entry, buses and planes. I have no clue how they best prepare for that.

I don't know all the answers, but I think we are more alike than you think. Definitely different of course, but not entirely. At least both places are designed for the best interest and freedom of their citizens!

[Drummond]

All good Drummond, and I don't take any offense at all.

Our countries are alike in many ways and different in many ways. The most obvious is pure size and population. And having so many individual states that were founded many years ago. And those states all work together with the nation as one. It ain't easy!!

We too have local community councils, mayors in charge of individual cities, then governors, and also various representatives for congress in each state. Things are governed locally here too! But then we have a federal system and set of laws and guidelines above that, all working mostly seamlessly and within our COTUS. And as you have it, we too don't have a conflict of interest between the 2. All local laws fit within federal laws and the constitution.

And each state and locale has the ability to have their various own laws and ordinances and their own powers. But much must fit within federal laws and guidelines. But they are independent and can govern themselves as you see in this situation. Yup, confusing!

The stuff you point out can and will be problematic. Keep in mind that most 'essential' businesses are open, so things coming from other states are likely open already. But who knows 100% for sure? And yep, I asked that a few weeks back, if one opens , then how do they control incoming/outgoing traffic, if they do at all? Same with that applies to points of entry, buses and planes. I have no clue how they best prepare for that.

I don't know all the answers, but I think we are more alike than you think. Definitely different of course, but not entirely. At least both places are designed for the best interest and freedom of their citizens!

Thanks for not taking offence. None will ever be intended, between me and any forum member (not 100 percent sure on Pete, though) ... I hope that's all understood.

It'll take me a time to digest all you've told me, and I agree, certain organisational equivalence exists, more than I'd thought. So if there's a notable difference, I think (as I did before) that it lies with the greater overriding authority our central Government has open to it, when it needs it.

This Coronavirus issue is a very good case in point. Daily, Ministers (usually through the one political spokesperson and accompanying scientific representative, though they seem to rotate their appearances, day-by-day) appear, to give daily reports on the virus .. statistics, measures intended, and there's a virtual press conference held where journalists probe what they've been told. It's a totally clear-cut process. What Government says it will do, it does do. No County Council has input. No local council has input. Representatives of the Scottish, Welsh, N Ireland Governments are SOMETIMES invited to Cobra meetings to discuss policy preferences, but what invariably emerges from those meetings is consensus, with Westminster always having the deciding voice, if needed.

You'll never, ever, hear a Minister emerge to give a daily report, and say from it that there was no unity of direction between the Governments. What is announced, of necessity, represents - and is meant to represent - the UK as a whole.

[That said ... and, as a rare act ... Nicola Sturgeon, today, and NOT as a part of that daily report, suggested that Scotland MIGHT end its lockdown before anyone else. This she did as an act of rebellion, asserting herself as a leader pushing for all she's worth to defy the very basis of UK unity ... which is what she represents, as leader of the SNP ... a Party that wants separation from the UK entirely.

The SNP exists for precisely that purpose. To rebel, and to fight for Independence.]

The point is that the UK is all about unity. The Westminster Government has within it representation from all parts of the UK, and holds decisive power, which it wields whenever necessary, represented as a single voice.

We have lockdown rules. These apply everywhere in the UK. No local authority has any legal means of defying them.

AND ... isn't what a proper fight against Covid-19 demands ? Cobbled-together solutions are OK, if they are agreements that work. But better to have an authority with the power to insist upon it, inviolably, and from one single policy direction .. I'd have thought ?

[Kathianne]

All good Drummond, and I don't take any offense at all.

Our countries are alike in many ways and different in many ways. The most obvious is pure size and population. And having so many individual states that were founded many years ago. And those states all work together with the nation as one. It ain't easy!!

We too have local community councils, mayors in charge of individual cities, then governors, and also various representatives for congress in each state. Things are governed locally here too! But then we have a federal system and set of laws and guidelines above that, all working mostly seamlessly and within our COTUS. And as you have it, we too don't have a conflict of interest between the 2. All local laws fit within federal laws and the constitution.

And each state and locale has the ability to have their various own laws and ordinances and their own powers. But much must fit within federal laws and guidelines. But they are independent and can govern themselves as you see in this situation. Yup, confusing!

The stuff you point out can and will be problematic. Keep in mind that most 'essential' businesses are open, so things coming from other states are likely open already. But who knows 100% for sure? And yep, I asked that a few weeks back, if one opens , then how do they control incoming/outgoing traffic, if they do at all? Same with that applies to points of entry, buses and planes. I have no clue how they best prepare for that.

I don't know all the answers, but I think we are more alike than you think. Definitely different of course, but not entirely. At least both places are designed for the best interest and freedom of their citizens!

Thanks, you're saying what I have all along, but simpler. Good job!

[jimnyc]

Thanks, you're saying what I have all along, but simpler. Good job!

I re-read a few times and thought I was coming off stupid! I'm not a teacher and certainly don't know the ins and outs like some others do. My info is kinda limited, and simpler - but IMO it's simpler because I ain't the brightest tool in the shed myself when it comes to the Cotus - Feds/Congress/Prez - States/governors/reps/mayors/councils and the "chain of command" Stupid like and simple like.

[Kathianne]

I re-read a few times and thought I was coming off stupid! I'm not a teacher and certainly don't know the ins and outs like some others do. My info is kinda limited, and simpler - but IMO it's simpler because I ain't the brightest tool in the shed myself when it comes to the Cotus - Feds/Congress/Prez - States/governors/reps/mayors/councils and the "chain of command" Stupid like and simple like.

No way, the best teachers are those that can do the explanation 'simple.' I've too much Constitutional studies, including several classes in Constitutional Law, I tend not to go for simple, while assuming that others have the background to get what I skip. That's not good, something I have to be very careful when teaching middle school. I tend to write an outline for myself.

[Drummond]

Thanks for not taking offence. None will ever be intended, between me and any forum member (not 100 percent sure on Pete, though) ... I hope that's all understood.

It'll take me a time to digest all you've told me, and I agree, certain organisational equivalence exists, more than I'd thought. So if there's a notable difference, I think (as I did before) that it lies with the greater overriding authority our central Government has open to it, when it needs it.

This Coronavirus issue is a very good case in point. Daily, Ministers (usually through the one political spokesperson and accompanying scientific representative, though they seem to rotate their appearances, day-by-day) appear, to give daily reports on the virus .. statistics, measures intended, and there's a virtual press conference held where journalists probe what they've been told. It's a totally clear-cut process. What Government says it will do, it does do. No County Council has input. No local council has input. Representatives of the Scottish, Welsh, N Ireland Governments are SOMETIMES invited to Cobra meetings to discuss policy preferences, but what invariably emerges from those meetings is consensus, with Westminster always having the deciding voice, if needed.

You'll never, ever, hear a Minister emerge to give a daily report, and say from it that there was no unity of direction between the Governments. What is announced, of necessity, represents - and is meant to represent - the UK as a whole.

[That said ... and, as a rare act ... Nicola Sturgeon, today, and NOT as a part of that daily report, suggested that Scotland MIGHT end its lockdown before anyone else. This she did as an act of rebellion, asserting herself as a leader pushing for all she's worth to defy the very basis of UK unity ... which is what she represents, as leader of the SNP ... a Party that wants separation from the UK entirely.

The SNP exists for precisely that purpose. To rebel, and to fight for Independence.]

The point is that the UK is all about unity. The Westminster Government has within it representation from all parts of the UK, and holds decisive power, which it wields whenever necessary, represented as a single voice.

We have lockdown rules. These apply everywhere in the UK. No local authority has any legal means of defying them.

AND ... isn't what a proper fight against Covid-19 demands ? Cobbled-together solutions are OK, if they are agreements that work. But better to have an authority with the power to insist upon it, inviolably, and from one single policy direction .. I'd have thought ?

It's an 'aside' point to the main one, but I've just realised, I think, what the Sturgeon pronouncement must've been all about !!

In its way, it's rather amusing.

The SNP, or 'Scottish Nationalist Party', is a Left wing Party dedicated to bringing about the separation of Scotland from the rest of the UK (threatening the existence of the UK as a whole). But that's not their only ambition. They HATE Brexit with a passion.

Once rid of UK membership, they'd want to rejoin the EU. However, they're not a large country, and if you discount the location of whatever's left of our North Sea oil reserves, they'd barely qualify as a nation capable of running an economy which could stand the stresses and strains of Euro membership.

So, along comes Covid-19, and Sturgeon's arch-nemesis, Boris Johnson, imposes lockdown rules across the entire UK ! Now, such a regime will damage (as you will well know !) even the strongest of economies. But Sturgeon has to look on while Scotland haemmorhages its own fiscal viability.

Sturgeon's hopes of ever joining the EU are steadily going down the plughole.

So, she has to balance up her ambition, versus reality. Does she prematurely force Scotland back to full productivity, and hope that not too high a percentage of Scots don't die off (there aren't that many of them, to start with) ? Or, does she let matters continue on, and not be a master of Scotland's fate ?

She's chosen to gamble Scottish lives, rather than let Scotland have too weak an economy for the EU to take it seriously.

Proof that Leftieism can be highly lethal, in the wrong hands ... Sturgeon must be VERY worried indeed. The virus is slowly killing her dreams !