Boris Johnson taken to intensive care.

[Black Diamond]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52192604
Raab to deputise. I'm sure more news to come on it

[Drummond]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52192604
Raab to deputise. I'm sure more news to come on it

Speculation (it is only that, at present) is that Boris has moved on to the pneumonia stage of the infection.

10 Downing Street, up to this point, has been very reluctant to give out details. They simply stated, some hours ago, that Boris's infection was 'persistent'. When asked if that meant his condition had worsened, they just repeated their statement.

Boris was moved to an intensive care unit at around 7pm (BST, of course).

[Black Diamond]

Speculation (it is only that, at present) is that Boris has moved on to the pneumonia stage of the infection.

10 Downing Street, up to this point, has been very reluctant to give out details. They simply stated, some hours ago, that Boris's infection was 'persistent'. When asked if that meant his condition had worsened, they just repeated their statement.

Boris was moved to an intensive care unit at around 7pm (BST, of course).

My God. Prayers for your whole nation.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I heard this morning on the news that he was "moved to a hospital simply as a precaution."

So reporting sure can vary.

[Black Diamond]

I heard this morning on the news that he was "moved to a hospital simply as a precaution."

So reporting sure can vary.

His condition has worsened since then I think

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Surely hoping and praying he recovers.

[jimnyc]

Damn, I hope it's major precautionary measures for a leader. Definitely add in my prayers for the nation as a whole. I could only imagine the feeling and the unknown. And I sure hope like hell that no stories come out of folks wishing the worst for him, as we have seen here. :(

[pete311]

Not worried, it's gonna be over like a miracle. Pump his veins with experimental drugs, "what do you have to lose?"

[jimnyc]

Not worried, it's gonna be over like a miracle. Pump his veins with experimental drugs, "what do you have to lose?"

This should be a sticky at the top of the board for all members to see and all guests. It's joke time! Pete doesn't agree with doctors reporting all the success rates, but runs on an opinion from someone not on the front line instead. We shouldn't listen to any of them.

And now on to joke time about the leader of the UK. Just laugh and prance about it and fuck with him with drugs I don't believe in.

You KNOW he's sitting back laughing about much of this. That is a FACT.

Pete joking around during this pandemic and being dismissive of others and doctors and then dismissing fucking with people because they dare offer prayers for folks - and more - well makes him a piece of shit in my opinion. And you know, not literally, not name calling, but someone who truly is the worst that we can imagine, someone who is on display and cannot even argue some of the most disgusting words and displays.

If anything, bad times is when folks find out who their friends are - and find out the true colors of others.

[pete311]

This should be a sticky at the top of the board for all members to see and all guests. It's joke time! Pete doesn't agree with doctors reporting all the success rates, but runs on an opinion from someone not on the front line instead. We shouldn't listen to any of them.

And now on to joke time about the leader of the UK. Just laugh and prance about it and fuck with him with drugs I don't believe in.

You KNOW he's sitting back laughing about much of this. That is a FACT.

Pete joking around during this pandemic and being dismissive of others and doctors and then dismissing fucking with people because they dare offer prayers for folks - and more - well makes him a piece of shit in my opinion. And you know, not literally, not name calling, but someone who truly is the worst that we can imagine, someone who is on display and cannot even argue some of the most disgusting words and displays.

If anything, bad times is when folks find out who their friends are - and find out the true colors of others.

Trump said these things not in a joking manner and I repeat them not in a joking manner. You can't have it both ways. You either condemn us both, or not at all.

[FakeNewsSux]

Trump said these things not in a joking manner and I repeat them not in a joking manner. You can't have it both ways. You either condemn us both, or not at all.
MAPA
Make America Petey Again!

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Trump said these things not in a joking manner and I repeat them not in a joking manner. You can't have it both ways. You either condemn us both, or not at all.
Let's have a link to where President Trump said of UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson...


"Not worried, it's gonna be over like a miracle. Pump his veins with experimental drugs, "what do you have to lose?"

[Drummond]

This should be a sticky at the top of the board for all members to see and all guests. It's joke time! Pete doesn't agree with doctors reporting all the success rates, but runs on an opinion from someone not on the front line instead. We shouldn't listen to any of them.

And now on to joke time about the leader of the UK. Just laugh and prance about it and fuck with him with drugs I don't believe in.

You KNOW he's sitting back laughing about much of this. That is a FACT.

Pete joking around during this pandemic and being dismissive of others and doctors and then dismissing fucking with people because they dare offer prayers for folks - and more - well makes him a piece of shit in my opinion. And you know, not literally, not name calling, but someone who truly is the worst that we can imagine, someone who is on display and cannot even argue some of the most disgusting words and displays.

If anything, bad times is when folks find out who their friends are - and find out the true colors of others.

You have to understand two basic facts about those 'of a Leftist persuasion'. The first is that their dogma disengages their 'humanity' (or capacity for same) from seeing people as individuals. They come as close to adopting a 'hive mind' in their outlook as it's possible for non-insect lifeforms to achieve. 'The masses' .. how 'the masses' behave, how they can be controlled, is everything to a Leftie. Caring about individuals not immediately personally linked to one, is beyond them.

This makes the second fact all too easy for them. To Pete, Boris is an enemy ... an adversarial figure, not a part of his 'hive'. So, he has literally ZERO empathy for him, and it shows in the way he expresses how he thinks. Were Boris to approach death, Pete wouldn't be capable of having any measure of feeling about it of an empathic nature.

Pete's simply being true to what he is. That's the beginning and end of it.

He illustrates perfectly why NOT being a creature of the Left constitutes, of itself, a state of being inevitably superior to those so afflicted.

'Thank you', Pete, for proving what I already knew.

Also, ignore my next post. It'll be of no interest to you.

[Drummond]

His condition has worsened since then I think

Correct.

At the time he was moved to hospital, all he had was a persistently high temperature. He was being kept in for tests, to determine exactly why, and to determine how his illness would progress.

At this point, he was still well enough to work, and was still receiving Ministerial red boxes with Issues of State to work on.

Today (several hours later) his condition began to worsen. It continued to, throughout this afternoon, to the point where he was having trouble breathing.

The latest information we have is that he's been fed oxygen to help with that. He is NOT, as of now, ill enough to require a ventilator.

As you said .. Dominic Raab is now undertaking Boris's duties in his place.

The matter of succession isn't quite as clear-cut in British politics as it is in America .. officially speaking, 'Deputy Prime Minister' isn't an official title. Dominic Raab will have the task, in Cabinet meetings, of offering leadership .. but his will be more of a co-ordination role than of dictating direction. He'll basically mark time. Our policy direction on Coronavirus is already plotted in any case .. Dominic will run Cabinet meetings as much by 'consent' as through force of personality, backed by unassailable authority.

Assuming Boris recovers, he'll step back in when needed. Should the worst happen, Dominic will continue on until a new Leader of the Party is elected.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Correct.

At the time he was moved to hospital, all he had was a persistently high temperature. He was being kept in for tests, to determine exactly why, and to determine how his illness would progress.

At this point, he was still well enough to work, and was still receiving Ministerial red boxes with Issues of State to work on.

Today (several hours later) his condition began to worsen. It continued to, throughout this afternoon, to the point where he was having trouble breathing.

The latest information we have is that he's been fed oxygen to help with that. He is NOT, as of now, ill enough to require a ventilator.

As you said .. Dominic Raab is now undertaking Boris's duties in his place.

The matter of succession isn't quite as clear-cut in British politics as it is in America .. officially speaking, 'Deputy Prime Minister' isn't an official title. Dominic Raab will have the task, in Cabinet meetings, of offering leadership .. but his will be more of a co-ordination role than of dictating direction. He'll basically mark time. Our policy direction on Coronavirus is already plotted in any case .. Dominic will run Cabinet meetings as much by 'consent' as through force of personality, backed by unassailable authority.

Assuming Boris recovers, he'll step back in when needed. Should the worst happen, Dominic will continue on until a new Leader of the Party is elected.
It would be nice to hear that Boris has access to Hydroxychloroquine and Azith.

I hope the VA has gotten their hands on some, and I can have it if I ever get CV and it gets so bad I'm knocking on death's door.

[Black Diamond]

It would be nice to hear that Boris has access to Hydroxychloroquine and Azith.

I hope the VA has gotten their hands on some, and I can have it if I ever get CV and it gets so bad I'm knocking on death's door.
It would be hilarious and wonderful if he took the drug and it cured him.

[Drummond]

It would be hilarious and wonderful if he took the drug and it cured him.

It took me by surprise to learn that Hydroxychloroquine is MORE readily available in the UK than in the US. So I really can't see that there's any excuse for not trying it on Boris .....

[Drummond]

Just heard a report on LBC News. This said that Boris is in a stable condition, & in 'good spirits'.

Hopefully he's turned a corner and can now recover.

We've been learning how limited Dominic Raab's powers are. He has no power to 'hire or sack' any Minister ... he has to work with what he's got (.. so, presumably, if a Minister got involved in some scandal or other, or took liberties, all he could do was enact disciplinary procedures, not remove the Minister involved).

Should (highly unlikely, of course !) war break out before Boris returned, Raab would lack any unilateral powers. He'd have to consult his Cabinet to reach a joint decision !

Perhaps Raab could turn to a ventilated Boris for a decision. If Boris was in a bad mood because he didn't like his ventilation tube, maybe he'd feel like launching a nuke ...

[Drummond]

Just heard a report on LBC News. This said that Boris is in a stable condition, & in 'good spirits'.

Hopefully he's turned a corner and can now recover.

We've been learning how limited Dominic Raab's powers are. He has no power to 'hire or sack' any Minister ... he has to work with what he's got (.. so, presumably, if a Minister got involved in some scandal or other, or took liberties, all he could do was enact disciplinary procedures, not remove the Minister involved).

Should (highly unlikely, of course !) war break out before Boris returned, Raab would lack any unilateral powers. He'd have to consult his Cabinet to reach a joint decision !

Perhaps Raab could turn to a ventilated Boris for a decision. If Boris was in a bad mood because he didn't like his ventilation tube, maybe he'd feel like launching a nuke ...

One encouraging update / addition to post. Boris remains stable. He's not on a ventilator; he hasn't needed it, up to now ... and St Thomas' Hospital confirms that Boris does NOT have pneumonia.

Cautiously stated ... its looking good !

[jimnyc]

It would be hilarious and wonderful if he took the drug and it cured him.

I read that Trump and the WH are in contact in addition to a few American companies. So take that for what it's worth. But if they have the meds already...

Hopefully if push comes to shove and things get worse and nothing working - give it to him.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

One encouraging update / addition to post. Boris remains stable. He's not on a ventilator; he hasn't needed it, up to now ... and St Thomas' Hospital confirms that Boris does NOT have pneumonia.

Cautiously stated ... its looking good !
They said on the news here that they had put him on oxygen to "help with his breathing."

[Drummond]

They said on the news here that they had put him on oxygen to "help with his breathing."

Yes, I heard that. Still, if an oxygen mask did the trick, and he doesn't need more .. I see that as encouraging.

Early days, though. We must wait & see what happens.

[Kathianne]

It took me by surprise to learn that Hydroxychloroquine is MORE readily available in the UK than in the US. So I really can't see that there's any excuse for not trying it on Boris .....

Remember when we were talking about the drug, I told you it looked to me that it was available OTC in UK, THAT surprised me. It also would mean that it would be readily available.

[jimnyc]

If in fact this drug did help anyone of such a level - do you think they would announce that to the world right now? I think then there would be a massive rush to get the medication, even though you can't of course.

I'm afraid that just as they are determining who gets a Covid test, based solely off of an online form by me at least, and stories of folks not being able to be tested all over, that both the tests and the Hydroxy medication mixture, are being held by whomever and whomever will be making the determinations on who gets and who doesn't.

[jimnyc]

Damn, I hope it's major precautionary measures for a leader. Definitely add in my prayers for the nation as a whole. I could only imagine the feeling and the unknown. And I sure hope like hell that no stories come out of folks wishing the worst for him, as we have seen here. :(

And what a coincidence, it was spurred by "say a little prayer". Sound familiar? :rolleyes:

--

Mayor apologizes for saying Boris Johnson 'deserves' coronavirus

The mayor of a town in Derbyshire has been forced to apologize for saying U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson “completely deserves this” after he was admitted to intensive care with coronavirus.

Sheila Oakes, the mayor of Heanor, made the inflammatory comments in response to a Facebook post asking people to “say a little prayer" for the Prime Minister on Monday evening.

Ms Oakes commented underneath the social media post: "Sorry, he completely deserves this and he is one of the worst PMs we've ever had."

She has since apologized and accepted she "made a mistake" with the outburst.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-covid-19-news-and-live-updates-120246923.html

[High_Plains_Drifter]

FUCKIN' A... @Gunny (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=30), @CSM (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=36), @icansayit (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=3857), and the rest of you veterans here that use the VA health system like I do... LOOKS LIKE WE'LL GET HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE if we get the COVID CREEPY CRUD... :dance: .... :salute:

Federal agencies buy massive supply of hydroxychloroquine

https://nypost.com/2020/04/07/federal-agencies-purchase-large-supply-of-hydroxychloroquine/

I've been wondering and asking, now there it is.

[Drummond]

And what a coincidence, it was spurred by "say a little prayer". Sound familiar? :rolleyes:

--

Mayor apologizes for saying Boris Johnson 'deserves' coronavirus

The mayor of a town in Derbyshire has been forced to apologize for saying U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson “completely deserves this” after he was admitted to intensive care with coronavirus.

Sheila Oakes, the mayor of Heanor, made the inflammatory comments in response to a Facebook post asking people to “say a little prayer" for the Prime Minister on Monday evening.

Ms Oakes commented underneath the social media post: "Sorry, he completely deserves this and he is one of the worst PMs we've ever had."

She has since apologized and accepted she "made a mistake" with the outburst.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-covid-19-news-and-live-updates-120246923.html

Very well spotted.

It goes without saying that this character was a member of the Labour Party.

I say 'was', though. Ms Oakes has bought 'a world of hurt' for herself out of all this. She's no longer Mayor .. & she also had a job with a law firm ... they've thrown her out.

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/disgraced-mayor-heanor-loses-job-4033209

Even the Labour Party, it must be said, have thrown her out.

[Drummond]

Anyway, I came on to this thread to leave some good news here.

Boris remains in intensive care ... BUT ... is said to be improving. He's sitting up in bed, interacting with nurses, now breathing unaided.

Any relapse notwithstanding (not seen as likely) ... it seems he's recovering.:clap::clap::clap:

[Drummond]

The better news is that, apparently, Boris has turned a corner. He's now out of intensive care.

We're told that his progress will be closely monitored .. suggesting it's not all plain sailing for him. Nonetheless .. very encouraging news.

[Kathianne]

The better news is that, apparently, Boris has turned a corner. He's now out of intensive care.

We're told that his progress will be closely monitored .. suggesting it's not all plain sailing for him. Nonetheless .. very encouraging news.
Hurrah! I was just going to post the same:

https://thehill.com/policy/international/492040-boris-johnson-moved-out-out-of-intensive-care

[Drummond]

Very well spotted.

It goes without saying that this character was a member of the Labour Party.

I say 'was', though. Ms Oakes has bought 'a world of hurt' for herself out of all this. She's no longer Mayor .. & she also had a job with a law firm ... they've thrown her out.

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/disgraced-mayor-heanor-loses-job-4033209

Even the Labour Party, it must be said, have thrown her out.

Today ... some more subhumanity from the Left. This time, it involves an official from the RMT, which is a transport Union .... one with a militant strike record.

A report on it:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/rmt-union-boss-steve-hadley-boris-johnson-died-party-coronavirus-a4412196.html


Rail, Maritime and Transport union boss Steve Hedley has been suspended after saying he would "throw a party" if Boris Johnson dies of coronavirus.

It comes after the Prime Minister was admitted into intensive care as he battled with Covid-19.

He was moved back to the ward at St Thomas' Hospital on Thursday as his condition improved.

Mr Hedley, who is the assistant chief of the RMT, is believed to have made comments on social media about having a party, in reference to Boris Johnson's condition.

He also reportedly wrote that he hoped the whole Cabinet contracted the deadly virus in a series of comments on his public Facebook profile.

The union boss then proceeded to hit back at users who criticised him for his comments.

Mr Hedley is a longstanding RMT official and is effectively the union's number two.

A spokesman for the union said: "Following a meeting of the union's National Executive a decision has been made to suspend senior assistant general secretary Steve Hedley with immediate effect while a formal investigation takes place into his conduct."

On LBC, a presenter, Maajid Nawaz, interviewed Hedley. At the tail-end of the interview, Nawaz attempted to discuss his comments, but Hedley refused. He hung up on him.

Shortly thereafter, Hedley was suspended by his Union.

See:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBjJjTOakso

Says it all. Nawaz has himself been highly critical of Boris in the past, BUT, he genuinely wishes Boris to have a good recovery. As for the vicious creep, Hedley .....

[Kathianne]

Haters gonna hate, but there should be a price to pay for doing so in public.

[Drummond]

Haters gonna hate, but there should be a price to pay for doing so in public.

Particularly when the source of it is Left-wing, agenda-driven, hatred of those who've DARED to stand for something they happen not to want to support.

I'm not sure that this gets to the crux of the matter. I think that what DOES, is proof that what infects the Left and helps define it, is such a level of subhuman hate.

These people think they have standards which qualify them for leadership of an entire nation. They think they're fit to !! HOW, exactly ... ???

[Kathianne]

Particularly when the source of it is Left-wing, agenda-driven, hatred of those who've DARED to stand for something they happen not to want to support.

I'm not sure that this gets to the crux of the matter. I think that what DOES, is proof that what infects the Left and helps define it, is such a level of subhuman hate.

These people think they have standards which qualify them for leadership of an entire nation. They think they're fit to !! HOW, exactly ... ???

I find haters, left or right, despicable. I can deal nicely on the surface if they control their hate, but when the line is crossed, they are the same. Haters.

[Drummond]

I find haters, left or right, despicable. I can deal nicely on the surface if they control their hate, but when the line is crossed, they are the same. Haters.

You see reason to equivocate between Left and Right when it comes to haters.

I think that's misguided. It comes down to the nature of it, which the difference between Left and Right helps to define.

A Left winger can hate a Capitalist society, and wants to see it torn down. His agenda is one full of destructive hate.

A Right winger will want to defend against that agenda. S/he is thoroughly entitled to hate it. S/he is fuelled by a desire to see the agenda neutralised.

One is aggressive and destructive. The other is defensive, honour and decency-driven.

It isn't reasonable to equate the two in such a way that you think they have EQUAL merit (or lack thereof).

[Kathianne]

You see reason to equivocate between Left and Right when it comes to haters.

I think that's misguided. It comes down to the nature of it, which the difference between Left and Right helps to define.

A Left winger can hate a Capitalist society, and wants to see it torn down. His agenda is one full of destructive hate.

A Right winger will want to defend against that agenda. S/he is thoroughly entitled to hate it. S/he is fuelled by a desire to see the agenda neutralised.

One is aggressive and destructive. The other is defensive, honour and decency-driven.

It isn't reasonable to equate the two in such a way that you think they have EQUAL merit (or lack thereof).

Respectfully disagree. There are those on the right that see justice in bombing an abortion clinic, they are rightfully condemned by pro-life supporters. Why? It's wrong to kill or maim-regardless by an abortionist or by a bomber.

From time-to-time you can see hate on the right here, not at individuals by at groups. Hate in any form is evil and corrupts the hater.

War is not in hate, but often initiated by those that do.

[Drummond]

Respectfully disagree. There are those on the right that see justice in bombing an abortion clinic, they are rightfully condemned by pro-life supporters. Why? It's wrong to kill or maim-regardless by an abortionist or by a bomber.

From time-to-time you can see hate on the right here, not at individuals by at groups. Hate in any form is evil and corrupts the hater.

War is not in hate, but often initiated by those that do.

H'm. What you describe has no equivalent in my own society. Abortion is far more accepted here than in the US ... it's not an issue, much less a polarising one.

What happens here is that the Left hates, the Right defends against that hate. This doesn't include extremists who are invariably racist groups (e.g the old BNP) ... which the Left demonises as 'The Far Right'.

While they're busily demonising figures such as Tommy Robinson, so they continue on with anti-semitism within the confines of the Labour Party. A Leadership-hopeful, Lisa Nandy, won support from Jewish groups when she made noises suggesting that Labour needed to cleanse itself of its antisemitism. But most recently, after failing to win the leadership of that Party, she called for an arms embargo against Israel until they did more to 'recognise Palestinian rights'.

Lefties will hide their hatred when it suits them, or apply it like a surgeon's scalpel. But, they delight in their hatred in a way that nobody on our Right ever would.

[Kathianne]

H'm. What you describe has no equivalent in my own society. Abortion is far more accepted here than in the US ... it's not an issue, much less a polarising one.

What happens here is that the Left hates, the Right defends against that hate. This doesn't include extremists who are invariably racist groups (e.g the old BNP) ... which the Left demonises as 'The Far Right'.

While they're busily demonising figures such as Tommy Robinson, so they continue on with anti-semitism within the confines of the Labour Party. A Leadership-hopeful, Lisa Nandy, won support from Jewish groups when she made noises suggesting that Labour needed to cleanse itself of its antisemitism. But most recently, after failing to win the leadership of that Party, she called for an arms embargo against Israel until they did more to 'recognise Palestinian rights'.

Lefties will hide their hatred when it suits them, or apply it like a surgeon's scalpel. But, they delight in their hatred in a way that nobody on our Right ever would.

If DP is your only widespread contact with Americans, well it's not terribly widespread. There are degrees on both the left and right here, though the extreme is much larger on the left, at least to my perception.

Even here you see some of the religious hatred, not just at Catholics and Muslims, but Jews too. While it's the 'right' that has the anti Catholic and Muslim things down; the left is anti Jews to a large, 'quiet' but getting louder, degree.

Racial prejudice comes from both sides, one with saying they are worthless, shiftless, and such-though they KNOW good people too. The other side is patronizing, saying they need lower scores in the military, schools, universities, reparations, blah. blah. blah.

It's a big country, with lots of diversity. The parties too are diverse and opinions run wide.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Today ... some more subhumanity from the Left. This time, it involves an official from the RMT, which is a transport Union .... one with a militant strike record.

A report on it:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/rmt-union-boss-steve-hadley-boris-johnson-died-party-coronavirus-a4412196.html



On LBC, a presenter, Maajid Nawaz, interviewed Hedley. At the tail-end of the interview, Nawaz attempted to discuss his comments, but Hedley refused. He hung up on him.

Shortly thereafter, Hedley was suspended by his Union.

See:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBjJjTOakso

Says it all. Nawaz has himself been highly critical of Boris in the past, BUT, he genuinely wishes Boris to have a good recovery. As for the vicious creep, Hedley .....

Very sorry to find that Boris is so ill. Prayers for his recovery as your nation sorely needs his leadership.
Please stay safe my friend. Praying that none of us here are hit with this serious disease.
And that goes for Pete as well... --Tyr

[NightTrain]

Lefties will hide their hatred when it suits them, or apply it like a surgeon's scalpel. But, they delight in their hatred in a way that nobody on our Right ever would.





Bravo! You've just summed it up in a way I've been searching for for years.

[Drummond]

If DP is your only widespread contact with Americans, well it's not terribly widespread. There are degrees on both the left and right here, though the extreme is much larger on the left, at least to my perception.

Even here you see some of the religious hatred, not just at Catholics and Muslims, but Jews too. While it's the 'right' that has the anti Catholic and Muslim things down; the left is anti Jews to a large, 'quiet' but getting louder, degree.

Racial prejudice comes from both sides, one with saying they are worthless, shiftless, and such-though they KNOW good people too. The other side is patronizing, saying they need lower scores in the military, schools, universities, reparations, blah. blah. blah.

It's a big country, with lots of diversity. The parties too are diverse and opinions run wide.

I daresay that to have an accurate picture of the extremes of American society, YES, I'd have to look far beyond DP. Understood.

But - and you acknowledge this yourself, to a degree - the nature of the hatreds from one end of the spectrum to the other differs very significantly.

I know it's not the entirety of the problem. Nonetheless, a workable generalisation comes from the observation that Leftist-based hatred is WAY more pernicious than its so-called 'counterpart' on the Right. The Left seeks change. It seeks dominion, over the social order, over even the way people think. This is why they rely so heavily upon demonisation of their opposition during a Leftie 'hate fest' ... it's highly manipulative in character.

It is completely aggressive and destructive. It is meant to be, in order to serve its purpose .... one of instituting irrevocable change.

Hatreds from the Right are less than they once were, and today, they're largely defensive. We don't seek to further a 'terraforming' agenda, as the Left does .. the Right is defending against the indecency of the Left, and its manipulations.

Indecency of the Left ... how did this debate begin ? From the example of a militant Leftie, who wanted to throw a party to celebrate the death of a figure of opposition !

This is purely aggressive and pernicious in nature, and has NO redeeming factors of any kind.

No, Kath. You're equivocating with very little, if any at all, good cause to. The Left's hatreds are very much worse than any from the Right. The Right will defend and fight for decency. The Left does PRECISELY THE OPPOSITE.

[Drummond]

Very sorry to find that Boris is so ill. Prayers for his recovery as your nation sorely needs his leadership.
Please stay safe my friend. Praying that none of us here are hit with this serious disease.
And that goes for Pete as well... --Tyr

Your sentiment on Pete is noted and mirrored, Tyr. Agreed. Whether the Left would be anything like as benevolent .... well, I cite that militant Union leader (now ex-leader) as evidence of the far worse nature of the Left's own hatreds. Something I'd like Kathianne to acknowledge from the clear evidence of it.

As for Boris, I heard an update this morning: he's well on the mend. He's been moved to a low-dependency wing of St Thomas's Hospital, and is reportedly busily playing games and watching films. Good luck to him .. he's taking a holiday from the Left's hatreds.

Also praying that none of us gets this disease (.. or if we must, may our experience of it be asymptomatic !)

[Drummond]

Bravo! You've just summed it up in a way I've been searching for for years.

Thanks for that.

Kath gives me the impression of seeking a basis for equivocation. In fact, no such basis exists. I believe there's a genuine lack of comprehension there of what exactly does drive a Leftie, and consequently what it makes them capable of.

I have to hope that such equivocation (or desire for same) is shared by as few people as possible, on our side. It's something the Left would love to exploit, and WILL, if they can.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Your sentiment on Pete is noted and mirrored, Tyr. Agreed. Whether the Left would be anything like as benevolent .... well, I cite that militant Union leader (now ex-leader) as evidence of the far worse nature of the Left's own hatreds. Something I'd like Kathianne to acknowledge from the clear evidence of it.

As for Boris, I heard an update this morning: he's well on the mend. He's been moved to a low-dependency wing of St Thomas's Hospital, and is reportedly busily playing games and watching films. Good luck to him .. he's taking a holiday from the Left's hatreds.

Also praying that none of us gets this disease (.. or if we must, may our experience of it be asymptomatic !)

I hold a special affection for our nation's mother country, its peoples. And its rich history.
Since you and I became friends, I have learned so much from you and your knowledge and character both amaze me.
I consider it a true blessing that we became good friends and we see this dark world in very much the same way.
Praying for the good health, prosperity, safety and continuance of your nation is important to me and in my opinion
should be so to all Americans.
Great that you post Boris is greatly improved. Great news indeed my friend! :clap::clap::clap:--Tyr

[Drummond]

I hold a special affection for our nation's mother country, its peoples. And its rich history.
Since you and I became friends, I have learned so much from you and your knowledge and character both amaze me.
I consider it a true blessing that we became good friends and we see this dark world in very much the same way.
Praying for the good health, prosperity, safety and continuance of your nation is important to me and in my opinion
should be so to all Americans.
Great that you post Boris is greatly improved. Great news indeed my friend! :clap::clap::clap:--Tyr

You have a way with words, Tyr, that I can't begin to match ... it's the poet in you, no doubt !

There's nothing at all special about me. However, I would like to think that there's something special in what we argue for, and will fight to achieve ... a human existence free of certain scourges.

Let the fight continue until it's won, and WITHOUT dangerous equivocation exercises watering down its effectiveness. We shall one day win in the UK, and no doubt the US will prove to be the inspiration that facilitates that victory.

As always, my friend, my very best to you and yours. You do a stellar job here !!

[Kathianne]

Thanks for that.

Kath gives me the impression of seeking a basis for equivocation. In fact, no such basis exists. I believe there's a genuine lack of comprehension there of what exactly does drive a Leftie, and consequently what it makes them capable of.

I have to hope that such equivocation (or desire for same) is shared by as few people as possible, on our side. It's something the Left would love to exploit, and WILL, if they can.

I'm unsure why you would be put off by what I wrote, it was all true. Indeed, there was nothing there to disagree with from a conservative, as I don't believe that it's the business of schools to be feeding the kids, but it's the parents responsibility.

Heck I'm not keen on the whole food stamps idea, just not sure how to reverse something that now so many are dependent upon-which should sound very familiar to you. It's what socialism does, create dependence and control.

[tailfins]

Boris Johnson could be a huge inspiration to demonstrate that the Chinese Virus isn't a death sentence. Personally, I would rather have Coronavirus than a toxic boss. More than likely, one could put Coronavirus behind them after a couple of months. Some people live with effects of a toxic boss for years. As someone who has practiced social distancing most of my life, the heath restrictions don't represent a huge change for me. I would rather be around a physically toxic person than a psychologically toxic person. Of course these are not mutually exclusive. One can distance from both physically and psychologically toxic people. As one former co-worker that worked in an out-of-town office said, "When the team lead starts yelling at us, I get to turn down the volume".

[Kathianne]

Over 98% recovery rate. Only an idiot would think 'death sentence.'

[Drummond]

Boris Johnson could be a huge inspiration to demonstrate that the Chinese Virus isn't a death sentence. Personally, I would rather have Coronavirus than a toxic boss. More than likely, one could put Coronavirus behind them after a couple of months. Some people live with effects of a toxic boss for years. As someone who has practiced social distancing most of my life, the heath restrictions don't represent a huge change for me. I would rather be around a physically toxic person than a psychologically toxic person. Of course these are not mutually exclusive. One can distance from both physically and psychologically toxic people. As one former co-worker that worked in an out-of-town office said, "When the team lead starts yelling at us, I get to turn down the volume".

The virus came from China, yes. But I was unaware that it held Chinese nationality, or for that matter, any nationalistic characteristics of any kind. I'm unaware of one instance where the virus has ever produced a Chinese passport ...

.... then again, I suppose you could argue that it was an illegal immigrant ...

Well, anyway. We don't know how near Boris came to dying from it, and indeed, whether the nursing he received did actually SAVE his life. But in case you think otherwise, Covid-19 DOES KILL. Look to statistics coming out of New York if you don't believe me !

Show me statistical instances of toxic bosses that have kill rates remotely comparable to the figures you'll unearth !

Simple fact: the less seriously we take Covid-19, the greater the freedom it'll have to kill. Lockdowns are very far from ideal. But I'm sure there are already people alive who'd have died without them.

[Drummond]

Over 98% recovery rate. Only an idiot would think 'death sentence.'

There are people out there with compromised immune systems. There are people who've been undergoing cancer therapy. Many may, indeed, think of Covid-19 as a death sentence, should they contract it. None of them are, or will be, idiots ... I suggest.

[Kathianne]

The virus came from China, yes. But I was unaware that it held Chinese nationality, or for that matter, any nationalistic characteristics of any kind. I'm unaware of one instance where the virus has ever produced a Chinese passport ...

.... then again, I suppose you could argue that it was an illegal immigrant ...

Well, anyway. We don't know how near Boris came to dying from it, and indeed, whether the nursing he received did actually SAVE his life. But in case you think otherwise, Covid-19 DOES KILL. Look to statistics coming out of New York if you don't believe me !

Show me statistical instances of toxic bosses that have kill rates remotely comparable to the figures you'll unearth !

Simple fact: the less seriously we take Covid-19, the greater the freedom it'll have to kill. Lockdowns are very far from ideal. But I'm sure there are already people alive who'd have died without them.
Latest propaganda via MSM, 'New York cases came mostly from Europe, not China.' D'oh! Infected Europeans kept coming to US after China was blocked. Both of us said it made no sense to leave Europe open for travel here, with Italy melting down. Then UK was left open, for a couple more days. Those were mistakes, but mistakes are inevitable.

[Drummond]

Latest propaganda via MSM, 'New York cases came mostly from Europe, not China.' D'oh! Infected Europeans kept coming to US after China was blocked. Both of us said it made no sense to leave Europe open for travel here, with Italy melting down. Then UK was left open, for a couple more days. Those were mistakes, but mistakes are inevitable.

Points well made, yes. I for one saw no sense in treating the UK any differently to the rest of Europe ... and, Trump's Administration did act too slowly in decreeing a travel ban.

I've heard a suggestion (I've no idea if this has yet been verified) on LBC radio. The suggestion is that Covid-19 has already mutated into three, slightly different, strains. The one in Wuhan was strain #A. The one we in the UK have is strain #B. A more virulent strain evolved in Italy was strain #C, and New York has that strain of it.

[Kathianne]

Points well made, yes. I for one saw no sense in treating the UK any differently to the rest of Europe ... and, Trump's Administration did act too slowly in decreeing a travel ban.

I've heard a suggestion (I've no idea if this has yet been verified) on LBC radio. The suggestion is that Covid-19 has already mutated into three, slightly different, strains. The one in Wuhan was strain #A. The one we in the UK have is strain #B. A more virulent strain evolved in Italy was strain #C, and New York has that strain of it.

I've seen mixed articles regarding mutations. I think this is one of those times that 'wait for what shakes out,' probably applies, since there's absolutely nothing to be done about it at this time.

[Drummond]

Boris has left St Thomas's Hospital today. He isn't yet returning to work .. he will spend some time at 'Chequers', which is a Prime Ministerial retreat (a rough equivalent to your Camp David).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chequers

12509

He broadcast a speech -- covered by LBC. The presenter at the time, Ian Payne, said he found it very moving -- and he 'never finds speeches moving'. I heard most of it. Boris is thoroughly praising the NHS, saying that if it hadn't been for the staff there (he singled out two nurses for particular praise) he was sure he wouldn't now be alive.

Anyway, he SOUNDS healthy enough. Needs a lot more recuperation, obviously, but is now well & truly on the mend.

GREAT NEWS !!! :clap::clap::clap:

[tailfins]

The virus came from China, yes. But I was unaware that it held Chinese nationality, or for that matter, any nationalistic characteristics of any kind. I'm unaware of one instance where the virus has ever produced a Chinese passport ...

.... then again, I suppose you could argue that it was an illegal immigrant ...

Well, anyway. We don't know how near Boris came to dying from it, and indeed, whether the nursing he received did actually SAVE his life. But in case you think otherwise, Covid-19 DOES KILL. Look to statistics coming out of New York if you don't believe me !

Show me statistical instances of toxic bosses that have kill rates remotely comparable to the figures you'll unearth !

Simple fact: the less seriously we take Covid-19, the greater the freedom it'll have to kill. Lockdowns are very far from ideal. But I'm sure there are already people alive who'd have died without them.

I'm just following President Trump's lead. We can also call it the Kung Flu or the Kung Fu Crud.

[Drummond]

This Twitter link should allow you to see & hear Boris's speech, given just after he left hospital.

It's a great one !

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1249336590482243585

[tailfins]

Boris has left St Thomas's Hospital today. He isn't yet returning to work .. he will spend some time at 'Chequers', which is a Prime Ministerial retreat (a rough equivalent to your Camp David).


He broadcast a speech -- covered by LBC. The presenter at the time, Ian Payne, said he found it very moving -- and he 'never finds speeches moving'. I heard most of it. Boris is thoroughly praising the NHS, saying that if it hadn't been for the staff there (he singled out two nurses for particular praise) he was sure he wouldn't now be alive.

Anyway, he SOUNDS healthy enough. Needs a lot more recuperation, obviously, but is now well & truly on the mend.

GREAT NEWS !!! :clap::clap::clap:

I'm glad there are right-leaning leaders full of piss an' vinegar emerging. I put Boris Johnson, Donald Trump, Jair Bolsonaro, and Scott Morrison all in this category. Three out of four of these represent a rising Anglosphere on the world stage.

While socialized medicine isn't a good thing, I understand Johnson's praise here given that it's the NHS who the doctors and nurses are working for.


This Twitter link should allow you to see & hear Boris's speech, given just after he left hospital.

It's a great one !

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1249336590482243585

Here is the video directly for those who don't want to donate mouse clicks to Twatter.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzHtSPNt72s

[Drummond]

I'm glad there are right-leaning leaders full of piss an' vinegar emerging. I put Boris Johnson, Donald Trump, Jair Bolsonaro, and Scott Morrison all in this category. Three out of four of these represent a rising Anglosphere on the world stage.

While socialized medicine isn't a good thing, I understand Johnson's praise here given that it's the NHS who the doctors and nurses are working for.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzHtSPNt72s

Perhaps it'll prove to be a comparative rarity, Tailfins, but you've come up with a post I completely agree with.

Johnson has yet to be fully tested (though he's certainly got enough of a test to be going on with !). But he'll emerge as one of the all-time 'greats', in my opinion.

His praise for the NHS was enthusiastically given, unstinting in the extreme, undoubtedly heartfelt, borne of immense gratitude for the care he received at their hands. Totally understandable.

It's also a fact that the British will never turn against the NHS. It's hardwired into our society ... has been, ever since 1948. Any politician who worked for its demise, would instead be committing political suicide. So, Boris's unstinting praise will have that political dimension to it as well.

For myself, I only support the NHS because it's all we've got. I regard the NHS as competent, but it rarely manages to be more than that. It does work. But, HOW does it work ?

It works because of the massive amounts of money poured into it. It works because - to serve a population of around 65 million people ! - it still manages to be one of the biggest employers on the planet !

It works by recruiting nurses and doctors from overseas .. reducing each country's own resources, which is hardly ideal !!

The NHS is one of those broadly Socialist ideas which look great on paper, can be convincingly sold to people through propaganda, and yet, once you APPLY it, its faults and inefficiencies come to the fore.

We in the UK are stuck with it ... but I wish we weren't. It gobbles up money out of all proportion to what it can usefully give. As mighty as the US economy is, I think that if the US adopted its equivalent, (a) it'd cripple you, because your version would have to be capable of being several times larger, and (b) its usage of resources would also be correspondingly huge, impoverishing the entire world !!

[Drummond]

I'm just following President Trump's lead. We can also call it the Kung Flu or the Kung Fu Crud.

My suggestion: just call it what it IS. How about that ?

They say that the birthplace of democracy was in Greece ... specifically, Athens. Do you call all democratic systems 'The Greek System' .. ?

If I thought attributing racial characteristics to Covid-19 was at all appropriate, I'd take a leaf out of Prince Philip's gargantuan repertoire of entertaining gaffes, and ask whether the virus was 'slitty eyed'. Of course, it'd be a total nonsense to do that ... JUST AS ... it's nonsense to attribute nationality to the disease itself.

It happens to have come from China. Specifically in terms of that simple fact, AS a fact ..... so what ?