More on the hydroxychloroquine [Archive] - Debate Policy

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jimnyc

04-06-2020, 12:33 PM

IMO they should be fast tracking and making this medication en masse. They already know it works for many. They know it works for many other things, including malaria and lupus... So I think it will be used. Or have factories creating to keep up with the infected at the very least.

So positive is reported, and then they take over the medication and folks are sick and being denied now? WTF? Fast track it then pull the rug out?

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"This is WRONG!" - Licensed Physician in Utah Unable to Prescribe Hydroxychloroquine Because 'State Has Taken Over Distribution of Drug'

This is disturbing.

A licensed physician in Utah said on Sunday that he is unable to prescribe hydroxychloroquine because the state has taken over distribution of the drug.

Dr. Bill MD, is “trained extensively in diagnosis and treatment of human disease.”

Dr. Bill is a contributor to the Debbie Aldrich show and according to Aldrich’s website, “Dr. Bill majored in medical biology graduating Magna Cum Laude at age 19, Graduated from medical school at 23 from Miami University Medical School, Interned at Mount Siani Medical before beginning his own practice.”

Debbie Aldrich is also a contributor at CD Media.

Dr. Bill opened his private practice at 26, hired 4 medical doctors, a PA, and 12 nurses growing to one of the largest private family Practices in Utah.

Dr. Bill also built the 6 medical office buildings in a 10-year span housing his practice in 3 of those buildings.

Dr. Bill sold his very successful Family Practice to Intermountain Medical center, he is still a licensed doctor providing medical care to the community while continuing as an entrepreneur.

In other words, Dr. Bill is a brilliant doctor and knows more about treatments of diseases than government officials.

“I am a licensed physician in Utah. I tried to prescribe hydroxychloroquine but the pharmacist said the state had taken over the distribution of the drug. Even though I’m licensed, I cannot prescribe it. This is WRONG!” Dr. Bill said in a tweet.

https://i.imgur.com/Jyy2EBo.png

Dr. Bill followed up in a second tweet and said we are in the middle of a pandemic and need to be a little liberal with rules.

https://i.imgur.com/YNsSL3A.png

The FDA last week issued an emergency authorization for experimental Coronavirus treatments using chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, reported Forbes.

Via Forbes:

The Department of Health and Human Services said Sunday hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine products can be distributed and prescribed by doctors through the Strategic National Stockpile “to hospitalized teen and adult patients with COVID-19, as appropriate, when a clinical trial is not available or feasible.”

The agency is fast-tracking a process that usually takes years while the FDA conducts clinical trials in New York, a hot spot for the virus.

HHS said the emergency authorization was issued because the potential benefits of the product outweigh the risks and acknowledged that “anecdotal reports suggest that these drugs may offer some benefit in the treatment of hospitalized COVID-19 patients,” but cautioned that “clinical trials are needed to provide scientific evidence that these treatments are effective.”

Rest - https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/wrong-licensed-physician-utah-unable-prescribe-hydroxychloroquine-state-taken-distribution-drug/

jimnyc

04-06-2020, 01:04 PM

This is just a couple that I have grabbed. And I'll continue if things continue. Some will swear by studies, some deny it outright & some others say it isn't effective for them. So who knows. But these are doctors only that I have been finding - all over the place so far.

And what's up with India, they gonna hoard it, or play hardball?

And I know folks don't like the source sometimes - but they provide links to the studies and articles.
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Hydroxychloroquine Rated 'Most Effective Therapy' By Doctors For Coronavirus: Global Survey

The antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine has been deemed the most highly rated treatment for the novel coronavirus in an international poll of more than 6,000 doctors.

The survey, released Thursday and conducted by Sermo, a global health care polling company, asked 6,227 physicians in 30 countries to find out what works against SARS-CoV-2. The poll found that 37% of those treating patients suffering frm the coronavirusa that causes COVID-19 patients rated hydroxychloroquine as the “most effective therapy.”

The physicians picked hydroxychloroquine from a list of 15 choices.

On Monday, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration gave chloroquine and its derivative, hydroxychloroquine, emergency-use authorization, although many physicians were already using the drug.

Rest - https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/hydroxychloroquine-rated-effective-therapy-doctors-coronavirus-global-survey/

ndia Bans All Exports of "Game-Changer" Hydroxycholoroquine to Treat Coronavirus -- First Touted by President Trump

India is banning all exports of hydroxychloroquine for treating the coronavirus pandemic.

President Trump first touted the drug during a daily press conference and was widely mocked and ridiculed by the enemedia.

Some reporters in the liberal media would rather have Trump fail than people survive a viral scourge.

Via Bloomberg.com

India banned all exports of hydroxychloroquine, a malaria drug that President Donald Trump has touted as a “game changer” in the fight against Covid-19.

Exports of the drug and its formulations are prohibited “without any exceptions” and with immediate effect, India’s Directorate General of Foreign Trade said in an April 4 order on its website. The trade regulator had last month restricted overseas shipments of the drug, allowing only limited exceptions such as on humanitarian grounds and for meeting prior commitments.

At a press conference on Saturday, Trump said he spoke to Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and appealed for the release of shipments U.S. has already ordered. India is giving his request “serious consideration,” he said.

Rest - https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/india-bans-exports-game-changer-hydroxycholoroquine-treat-coronavirus-first-touted-president-trump/

Dr. Vladimir Zelenko has now treated 699 coronavirus patients with 100% success using Hydroxychloroquine Sulfate, Zinc and Z-Pak

April 5 Update: Dr. Vladimir Zelenko said in a video interview that a cocktail of Hydroxychloroquine, Zinc Sulfate and Azithromycin are showing phenomenon results with 900 coronavirus patients treated. This a must watch video.

Last Wednesday, we published the success story from Dr. Vladimir Zelenko, a board-certified family practitioner in New York, after he successfully treated 350 coronavirus patients with 100 percent success using a cocktail of drugs: hydroxychloroquine, in combination with azithromycin (Z-Pak), an antibiotic to treat secondary infections, and zinc sulfate. Dr. Zelenko said he saw the symptom of shortness of breath resolved within four to six hours after treatment. Hydroxychloroquine is now being used worldwide, according to a map from French Dr. Didier Raoult. In the meantime, scientists at University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine believe they’ve found potential vaccine for coronavirus.

Now, Dr. Zelenko provides updates on the treatment after he successfully treated 699 COVID-19 patients in New York. In an exclusive interview with former New York Mayor, Rudy Giuliani, Dr. Vladmir Zelenko shares the results of his latest study, which showed that out of his 699 patients treated, zero patients died, zero patients intubated, and four hospitalizations.

Dr. Zelenko said the whole treatment costs only $20 over a period of 5 days with 100% success. He defines success as “Not to die.” Dr. Zelenko first posted his Facebook video message last week calling on President Trump to “advise the country that they should be taking this medication.”

Rest - https://techstartups.com/2020/03/28/dr-vladimir-zelenko-now-treated-699-coronavirus-patients-100-success-using-hydroxychloroquine-sulfate-zinc-z-pak-update/?fbclid=IwAR3jCRBjZqT9e5yN1_5pX8-cjfeE9P7vG51qstVhF_c1JrnzkEzpt1LRtJc

HUGE! Second French Study by Dr. Raoult finds Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin Helped EVERY PATIENT in Study Group of 80 Minus One

On Friday night Laura Ingraham reported on the latest study by the French research team led by the renowned epidemiologist Dr. Didier Raoult was able to repeat his findings from a previous study.

This time Dr. Raoult administered hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin to 80 patients and observed improvement in EVERY CASE except for a very sick 86-year-old with an advanced form of coronavirus infection.

This is very promising news once again from Dr. Didier Raoult.

This is wonderful news.
Unfortunately, this doctor’s work helps the the global community and Trump so the the liberal media has either igored, attacked or mocked his research.
What awful people.

Dr. Raoult tweeted his results.
Translated: Our two articles published tonight help to demonstrate:
1. The effectiveness of our protocol, on 80 patients.
2. The relevance of the combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin, thanks to research carried out in our P3 containment laboratory.

Rest - https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/03/huge-second-french-study-by-dr-raoult-finds-hydroxychloroquine-and-azithromycin-helped-every-patient-in-study-group-of-80-minus-one-video/

LA doctor seeing success with hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19

LOS ANGELES (KABC) -- A Los Angeles doctor said he is seeing significant success in prescribing the malaria drug hydroxychloroquine in combination with zinc to treat patients with severe symptoms of COVID-19.

Hydroxychloroquine has been touted as a possible treatment for COVID-19 by President Trump among others, but it remains controversial as some experts believe it is unproven and may not be effective.

The drug has long been used for treatment of malaria and conditions such as lupus and arthritis but is not technically approved by the FDA for COVID-19. The agency, however, is encouraging trials and has provided limited emergency authorization for its use to treat COVID-19 patients.

Dr. Anthony Cardillo said he has seen very promising results when prescribing hydroxychloroquine in combination with zinc for the most severely-ill COVID-19 patients.

"Every patient I've prescribed it to has been very, very ill and within 8 to 12 hours, they were basically symptom-free," Cardillo told Eyewitness News. "So clinically I am seeing a resolution."

Cardillo is the CEO of Mend Urgent Care, which has locations in Sherman Oaks, Van Nuys and Burbank.

He said he has found it only works if combined with zinc. The drug, he said, opens a channel for the zinc to enter the cell and block virus replication.

Rest - https://abc7.com/coronavirus-drug-covid-19-malaria-hydroxychloroquine/6079864/

BREAKING: New controlled clinical study conducted by doctors in France shows that a combo of Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin (Z-Pak) cures 100% of coronavirus patients within 6 days of treatment

March 27, 2020 Update 9: BREAKING: French researchers just completed new additional study on 80 patients, results show a combination of Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin to be effective in treating COVID-19 patients. The team found that, by administering hydroxychloroquine combined with azithromycin, they were able to observe an improvement in all cases, except in one patient who arrived with an advanced form, who was over the age of 86, and in whom the evolution was irreversible.

On March 18, we published a story about a new study published by NIH which shows that Hydroxychloroquine has been found to be more effective and potent than chloroquine in vitro treatment of coronavirus. While the media is focused on the vaccine race and leaving the discussion of THERAPEUTICS almost completely neglected, a recent well controlled clinical study conducted by Didier Raoult M.D/Ph.D, et. al in France showed that 100% of patients that received a combination of HCQ and Azithromycin tested negative and were virologically cured within 6 days of treatment. According to a new unearthed paper, new evidence shows CDC knew since at least 2005 that chloroquine is effective against coronaviruses.

In the meantime, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved the ‘compassionate use’ of chloroquine to treat coronavirus patients in the United States. In addition, recent guidelines from South Korea and China report that hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine are effective antiviral therapeutic treatments for novel coronavirus.

Rest - https://techstartups.com/2020/03/18/breaking-controlled-clinical-study-conducted-doctors-%E2%80%8Bin-france-shows-hydroxychloroquine-cures-100-coronavirus-patients-within-6-days-treatment-covidtrial-io/

Bahrain, Belgium Report COVID-19 Treatment Touted By Trump (Hydroxychloroquine) Is Working For Patients

Bahrain and Belgium report their hospitals are successfully treating coronavirus patients with the anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine touted by President Trump as a possible breakthrough in the pandemic.

The Kingdom of Bahrain’s Supreme Council of Health chairman said his country was among the first to use the drug and that its impact has been “profound,” according to the Bahrain News Agency.

Dr. Shaikh Mohamed, who leads the National Taskforce for Combating COVID-19, was also quoted by the news agency as saying hydroxychloroquine was administered according to the same regimens as those used in China and South Korea. …

Meanwhile in Europe, another U.S. ally, Brussels, is reporting similar early success with the same drug and is taking steps to ensure its availability for the sickest coronavirus patients. …

Hydroxychloroquine is used to prevent and treat malaria and is administered to patients with rheumatoid arthritis or lupus.

Rest - https://wentworthreport.com/2020/03/27/bahrain-belgium-report-covid-19-treatment-touted-by-trump-hydroxychloroquines-is-working-for-patients/

High_Plains_Drifter

04-06-2020, 01:37 PM

I'll tell ya what, any DICKING AROUND at this point HOLDING THIS DRUG COCKTAIL UP boils down to GREED. Some filthy shysters that don't want to be left out of the chain of dispensing it WITHOUT GETTING THEIR CUT.

The president should put the distribution of Chloroquine and the other drugs under the WAR POWERS ACT. He should TAKE CONTROL, RIGHT NOW, and FUCK these greedy bastards just SCREWING THINGS UP GETTING PEOPLE KILLED by HOLDING IT UP.

It's ALWAYS about MONEY... filthy greedy money grubbing shit stains more worried about MAKING A BUCK than SAVING LIVES.

pete311

04-06-2020, 01:52 PM

FakeNewsSux

04-06-2020, 02:19 PM

No Evidence of Rapid Antiviral Clearance or Clinical Benefit with the Combination of Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin in Patients with Severe COVID-19 Infection
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0399077X20300858

Follow the money. Dr. Fauci isn't touting this for a reason and yet Trump is hammer on.

"This is a PDF file of an article that has undergone enhancements after acceptance, such asthe addition of a cover page and metadata, and formatting for readability, but it is not yet thedefinitive version of record. This version will undergo additional copyediting, typesetting andreview before it is published in its final form, but we are providing this version to give earlyvisibility of the article. Please note that, during the production process, errors may bediscovered which could affect the content, and all legal disclaimers that apply to the journalpertain."

If I didn't know any better, I would have thought that this is a disclaimer that could have accompanied Adam Schiff's testimony in the well of the Senate a couple of months ago.

jimnyc

04-06-2020, 04:13 PM

No Evidence of Rapid Antiviral Clearance or Clinical Benefit with the Combination of Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin in Patients with Severe COVID-19 Infection
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0399077X20300858

Follow the money. Dr. Fauci isn't touting this for a reason and yet Trump is hammer on.

All those doctors around the world - and you reply and say no evidence. Ok then.

AND now they are announcing that they will be only using it in some places and on those in the worst shape. As in they are stating it's helping MANY and until there is enough they are trying to figure out who can do without it and who needs it the most.

But I believe CNN states otherwise.... so I know the left will swear against it, and ignore the folks that recovered from it, and SO MANY reports of feeling 180 better in 4-6 hours.

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Fauci told us the virus wasn't a problem. He told us the virus was likely no worse than the flu. He stated endless models. He then doesn't like models. In the 80's he did similar with Aids and various projections that he was way way off base with. The man tries, but he has been way off many many times throughout his career. And in the face of doctors around the world, you will still look for any reason and anybody that doesn't state the same as Trump.

And follow the money. That's another that was just on CNN. They have lied AND been busted lying non-stop since 2016, and yet the left watch it like hawks and swear by it.

pete311

04-06-2020, 04:28 PM

All those doctors around the world - and you reply and say no evidence. Ok then.

AND now they are announcing that they will be only using it in some places and on those in the worst shape. As in they are stating it's helping MANY and until there is enough they are trying to figure out who can do without it and who needs it the most.

But I believe CNN states otherwise.... so I know the left will swear against it, and ignore the folks that recovered from it, and SO MANY reports of feeling 180 better in 4-6 hours.

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Fauci told us the virus wasn't a problem. He told us the virus was likely no worse than the flu. He stated endless models. He then doesn't like models. In the 80's he did similar with Aids and various projections that he was way way off base with. The man tries, but he has been way off many many times throughout his career. And in the face of doctors around the world, you will still look for any reason and anybody that doesn't state the same as Trump.

And follow the money. That's another that was just on CNN. They have lied AND been busted lying non-stop since 2016, and yet the left watch it like hawks and swear by it.

Jan. 22: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.” — Trump in a CNBC interview (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/22/trump-on-coronavirus-from-china-we-have-it-totally-under-control.html).
Jan. 30: “We think we have it very well under control. We have very little problem in this country at this moment — five — and those people are all recuperating successfully. But we’re working very closely with China and other countries, and we think it’s going to have a very good ending for us … that I can assure you.” — Trump in a speech (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/30/trump-close-cooperation-china-coronavirus-109701) in Michigan.
Feb. 10: “Now, the virus that we’re talking about having to do — you know, a lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat — as the heat comes in. Typically, that will go away in April. We’re in great shape though. We have 12 cases — 11 cases, and many of them are in good shape now.” — Trump at the White House (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-white-house-business-session-nations-governors/). (See our item “Will the New Coronavirus ‘Go Away’ in April? (https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/will-the-new-coronavirus-go-away-in-april/)“)
Feb. 14: “There’s a theory that, in April, when it gets warm — historically, that has been able to kill the virus. So we don’t know yet; we’re not sure yet. But that’s around the corner.” — Trump in speaking (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-national-border-patrol-council-members/) to National Border Patrol Council members.
Feb. 23: “We have it very much under control in this country.” — Trump in speaking to reporters (https://factba.se/transcript/donald-trump-press-gaggle-marine-one-departure-february-23-2020).
Feb. 24: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!” — Trump in a tweet (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1232058127740174339).
Feb. 26: “So we’re at the low level. As they get better, we take them off the list, so that we’re going to be pretty soon at only five people. And we could be at just one or two people over the next short period of time. So we’ve had very good luck.” — Trump at a White House briefing (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-conference/).
Feb. 26: “And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.” — Trump at a press conference (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-conference/).
Feb. 26: “I think every aspect of our society should be prepared. I don’t think it’s going to come to that, especially with the fact that we’re going down, not up. We’re going very substantially down, not up.” — Trump at a press conference (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-conference/), when asked if “U.S. schools should be preparing for a coronavirus spreading.”
Feb. 27: “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.” — Trump at a White House meeting (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-meeting-african-american-leaders/) with African American leaders.
Feb. 29: “And I’ve gotten to know these professionals. They’re incredible. And everything is under control. I mean, they’re very, very cool. They’ve done it, and they’ve done it well. Everything is really under control.” — Trump in a speech (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-2020-conservative-political-action-conference-national-harbor-md/) at the CPAC conference outside Washington, D.C.
March 4: “[W]e have a very small number of people in this country [infected]. We have a big country. The biggest impact we had was when we took the 40-plus people [from a cruise ship]. … We brought them back. We immediately quarantined them. But you add that to the numbers. But if you don’t add that to the numbers, we’re talking about very small numbers in the United States.” — Trump at a White House meeting (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-coronavirus-briefing-airline-ceos/) with airline CEOs.
March 4: “Well, I think the 3.4% is really a false number.” — Trump in an interview on Fox News, referring to the percentage of diagnosed COVID-19 patients worldwide who had died, as reported by the World Health Organization. (See our item “Trump and the Coronavirus Death Rate (https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/trump-and-the-coronavirus-death-rate/).”)
March 7: “No, I’m not concerned at all. No, we’ve done a great job with it.” — Trump (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/03/08/trump-response-coronavirus-washington-dc/4994189002/), when asked by reporters if he was concerned about the arrival of the coronavirus in the Washington, D.C., area.
March 9: “So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!” — Trump in a tweet (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1237027356314869761).
March 10: “And we’re prepared, and we’re doing a great job with it. And it will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.” — Trump after meeting (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-meeting-republican-senators-2/?utm_source=link&utm_medium=header) with Republican senators.
A day later, on March 11, the WHO declared (https://www.who.int/dg/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-opening-remarks-at-the-media-briefing-on-covid-19---11-march-2020) the global outbreak a pandemic.

jimnyc

04-06-2020, 04:56 PM

Pete, gonna say this in front of the entire board.

YOU are a piece of shit. And you have forced that on yourself. You come here to debate and discuss, and then debate absolutely nothing and do not much more than splash repeats of CNN here, brag and lie about things, make retarded claims so as not to answer questions, every time coincidentally.

And while EVERY member here has wished EVERY other member wellness throughout this, and helping one another in any way possible and have put aside the majority of the BS aside. Not all of it, because some of the negative news out there in politics is about this virus as well. But not special petey. I KNOW you are one of those laughing about those getting the disease that are somehow connected to the right. I KNOW all you do is listen to CNN and come here to deny anything and everything being discussed, because CNN stated otherwise out of nothing but hatred for Trump. They act and feel just like you do in life. You condemn anyone trying to help out there, and then support anyone that may not have the same stance as Trump. You deny facts about what doctors themselves are saying on the front lines and what folks recovering from this virus had to say. Anything to keep anything remotely positive away from Trump or the WH. And anything negative is his fault of course. And why? Because you are a piece of shit!

Yeah, Fauci in 8 days goes from 2 million dead down to 88,000. I don't see that in your list? The mistakes that the CDC and WHO stated, that folks relied on and reported on, also not in your list. I won't even bother picking apart your crap again, as you are an internal spammer posting the same BS, and won't reply to questions or proof against your bullshit.

I try and try and try to act like nothing happened ever when you come back here, hoping that maybe THIS is the time you'll come around. Or that through this horror story you would at least give things a respite, show your true colors, and come out together with is and hope everyone pulls through this and save the BS for when we are past this.

But you showed your true colors alright. Someone only concerned for himself. Perhaps the color brown - as in the piece of shit you are.

Keep posting and showing everyone that very proof, over and over.

pete311

04-06-2020, 05:28 PM

jimnyc

04-06-2020, 05:39 PM

We relied on the shitty WHO because Trump gutted the CDC unit that was in China.

Funny how you suddenly ht on board when "doctors" are making anecdotal claims, yet when 99% of scientists claim climate change you don't agree. You are a lemming to your sources.

Direct reports from the very doctors themselves prescribing this has nothing to do with sources - well not unless you are one looking to trash Trump anyway. And then go on to compare climate change to dying patients reaching better health via a medication.

At any rate, you will continue to ignore any links in articles from government sources, the CDC and WHO, doctors and nurses on the front line - and instantly deny whatever is said and then blame the source.

And then you hit another thread literally seconds later, and defend a source of your own - by telling folks to ignore that and look at the info/links/sources within the article. Everything about you is hypocritical. Everything else is a lie. Not an ounce of self respect nor respect for others. And then nothing changes in the worst of times, in fact you try to take advantage of it.

I have been pointing it out for all to see for quite some time now. Of course you don't see it or know it because it's just who you are. You are not a decent person. You wish and hope for bad things on others. You don't care about others. You like to brag, but about the wrong things. And considering your long history of lying about things, I personally think you're lying about much of that as well. You aren't a nice person, no decency about you, you laugh at others misfortunes at inopportune times, and then think it's funny to troll or toss little jabs at folks offering prayers or well wishes to one another.

This, which is what I think all adds up into you being that very piece of shit - is something you have dumped on us now for a very long time.

Again, true colors.

pete311

04-06-2020, 05:43 PM

Direct reports from the very doctors themselves prescribing this has nothing to do with sources - well not unless you are one looking to trash Trump anyway. And then go on to compare climate change to dying patients reaching better health via a medication.

At any rate, you will continue to ignore any links in articles from government sources, the CDC and WHO, doctors and nurses on the front line - and instantly deny whatever is said and then blame the source.

And then you hit another thread literally seconds later, and defend a source of your own - by telling folks to ignore that and look at the info/links/sources within the article. Everything about you is hypocritical. Everything else is a lie. Not an ounce of self respect nor respect for others. And then nothing changes in the worst of times, in fact you try to take advantage of it.

I have been pointing it out for all to see for quite some time now. Of course you don't see it or know it because it's just who you are. You are not a decent person. You wish and hope for bad things on others. You don't care about others. You like to brag, but about the wrong things. And considering your long history of lying about things, I personally think you're lying about much of that as well. You aren't a nice person, no decency about you, you laugh at others misfortunes at inopportune times, and then think it's funny to troll or toss little jabs at folks offering prayers or well wishes to one another.

This, which is what I think all adds up into you being that very piece of shit - is something you have dumped on us now for a very long time.

Again, true colors.

That's not how you do science and in fact is exactly how you could mass injury patients. Let the research studies be done and then make a plan. Don't make mass treatment plans on anecdotal accounts.

Black Diamond

04-06-2020, 05:59 PM

Gunny

04-07-2020, 09:21 AM

Gunny

04-07-2020, 09:25 AM

pete311 y'know, I know you are a jerk-off of the highest order and on the party dick to very end, but seriously? You can't think past politicizing to save your own ass? You've just fallen to a dumber level of "dumb" than I already had you placed.

Gunny

04-07-2020, 09:40 AM

That's not how you do science and in fact is exactly how you could mass injury patients. Let the research studies be done and then make a plan. Don't make mass treatment plans on anecdotal accounts.Plan goes to shit when the first round goes down range and you have to improvise, adapt and overcome through emergencies and there's no time for your red tape.

"Your child is dying. We have this seemingly successful drug that could save your child, with possible side effects but it's tied up in red tape by a bunch of chair polishers who have the very best of medical care and little to fear. Sorry for your loss.":rolleyes:

jimnyc

04-07-2020, 09:46 AM

When you or one of your loved ones is on their last breath you can tell me all about what you won't take.

My biggest fear of being an owner of a joint like this and having folks I know well and like all posting here... it's kinda my responsibility to an extent what people write here and my decision not to ban people and allow freedom of speech to rule.

God forbid one of us here is to get sick from this virus, or one of our loved ones. I think we would all share as we have known one another for so long now, and care about one another.

I truly think ONE person would actually get a kick out of it, and tell that person they should avoid such a medication and choose death instead. That's the left for you and this ONE for sure.

Gunny

04-07-2020, 10:06 AM

My biggest fear of being an owner of a joint like this and having folks I know well and like all posting here... it's kinda my responsibility to an extent what people write here and my decision not to ban people and allow freedom of speech to rule.

God forbid one of us here is to get sick from this virus, or one of our loved ones. I think we would all share as we have known one another for so long now, and care about one another.

I truly think ONE person would actually get a kick out of it, and tell that person they should avoid such a medication and choose death instead. That's the left for you and this ONE for sure.I doubt he'd even get a kick out of it. That would require enjoying something, even if at someone else's expense. I think he just flat doesn't care what happens to anyone or anything but himself and he's scared shitless and taking it out on us.

He holds no hope therefore must shoot down the hopes of others. Been people like that around all my life. Got to share the misery.

Russ

04-07-2020, 04:13 PM

... Trump gutted the CDC ...

"Trump gutted the CDC" and "Trump gutted the stockpile of pandemic supplies" are the latest mantras of the anti-Trump media and their minions. They mostly seem to believe that if these lines get repeated enough times they somehow become true.

First, CDC funding has gone up during the Trump administration, not down. I'm not sure how Trump can be gutting the CDC if the CDC is receiving more money than it did during the Obama years.

Second, the stockpile of pandemic supplies was actually gutted during the Obama Administration. They used up mostly the N95 facemask supplies for an H1N1 epidemic a few years ago. That might be valid, but then they never replenished the supplies they used.

USAToday did a fact check on this and rated it "True". Check for yourself...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/03/fact-check-did-obama-administration-deplete-n-95-mask-stockpile/5114319002/

jimnyc

04-07-2020, 04:25 PM

"Trump gutted the CDC" and "Trump gutted the stockpile of pandemic supplies" are the latest mantras of the anti-Trump media and their minions. They mostly seem to believe that if these lines get repeated enough times they somehow become true.

First, CDC funding has gone up during the Trump administration, not down. I'm not sure how Trump can be gutting the CDC if the CDC is receiving more money than it did during the Obama years.

Second, the stockpile of pandemic supplies was actually gutted during the Obama Administration. They used up mostly the N95 facemask supplies for an H1N1 epidemic a few years ago. That might be valid, but then they never replenished the supplies they used.

USAToday did a fact check on this and rated it "True". Check for yourself...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/03/fact-check-did-obama-administration-deplete-n-95-mask-stockpile/5114319002/

You can educate him and school him as you just did. You can post video and articles from both right leaning sites and the leftest of the left showing either wrongdoing from the left, or admitting that his heroes who are involved in wrongdoing did anything, or that they and the MSM like to lie to us, non-stop. He won't ever see wrongdoing from the left, not of those of the leaders and all of those posted for many years here. He will deny it happened. He will ignore any proof or evidence or facts anyone should post. He will ignore the very words of the folks themselves. He will ignore. He will deny. He will blame the source no matter what is in the source, no matter who it got its information from. He'll post a half a sentence and a link to some garbage and then bail after that. Or ignore. Or he suddenly gets busy and disappears when it's something "big" and he gets nailed to the cross. That's a month missing at least. Then it's "client time". Or when nailed, he will pull out the "I don't have time for this or that BS and to be here like you losers" garbage. You get the idea, every excuse and disappearing act known to man. Not an honest bone in his body and is the leader of all lying partisan hacks.

Overstating and exaggeration? Plllllleeeeeease. That just barely covers the tip with his intellectual dishonesty and intellectual shortcomings.

Russ

04-07-2020, 04:29 PM

I really don't agree with the idea of not making treatments available to sick people until the treatment has undergone months or years of testing. People are dying. Thousands of people are dying. Every day. How about this - the promising treatments that are out there currently should be an option for anyone who is dangerously sick, and we can see who gets better. When the alternative is death, then what is the risk they are worried about?

Worse, the liberal / anti-Trump part of the media spends so much time scoffing at hydroxychoroquine and zithromycin simply because Trump talked about it. They actually put attacking Trump ahead of finding a treatment for this pandemic.

I say that any member of the media does a piece scoffing at hydroxychoroquine and zithromycin and then gets sick later with COVID should refuse to take hydroxychoroquine and zithromycin. They should offer their prescription to the patient in the next hospital bed. That will convince me that they really thought that hydroxychoroquine and zithromycin is a stupid idea.

High_Plains_Drifter

04-07-2020, 04:31 PM

I know... let's have a fancy draw contest...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trgKeCFmi3M

Russ

04-07-2020, 06:54 PM

"Why Johnny Ringo....."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab57xD0oBz8

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

04-07-2020, 07:02 PM

IMO they should be fast tracking and making this medication en masse. They already know it works for many. They know it works for many other things, including malaria and lupus... So I think it will be used. Or have factories creating to keep up with the infected at the very least.

So positive is reported, and then they take over the medication and folks are sick and being denied now? WTF? Fast track it then pull the rug out?

--

"This is WRONG!" - Licensed Physician in Utah Unable to Prescribe Hydroxychloroquine Because 'State Has Taken Over Distribution of Drug'

This is disturbing.

A licensed physician in Utah said on Sunday that he is unable to prescribe hydroxychloroquine because the state has taken over distribution of the drug.

Dr. Bill MD, is “trained extensively in diagnosis and treatment of human disease.”

Dr. Bill is a contributor to the Debbie Aldrich show and according to Aldrich’s website, “Dr. Bill majored in medical biology graduating Magna Cum Laude at age 19, Graduated from medical school at 23 from Miami University Medical School, Interned at Mount Siani Medical before beginning his own practice.”

Debbie Aldrich is also a contributor at CD Media.

In other words, Dr. Bill is a brilliant doctor and knows more about treatments of diseases than government officials.

“I am a licensed physician in Utah. I tried to prescribe hydroxychloroquine but the pharmacist said the state had taken over the distribution of the drug. Even though I’m licensed, I cannot prescribe it. This is WRONG!” Dr. Bill said in a tweet.

https://i.imgur.com/Jyy2EBo.png

Dr. Bill followed up in a second tweet and said we are in the middle of a pandemic and need to be a little liberal with rules.

https://i.imgur.com/YNsSL3A.png

The FDA last week issued an emergency authorization for experimental Coronavirus treatments using chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, reported Forbes.

Via Forbes:

Rest - https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/wrong-licensed-physician-utah-unable-prescribe-hydroxychloroquine-state-taken-distribution-drug/

My wife still has a leftover month's supply from when she quit taking it as a second medication for her arthritis. So if the virus hits either of us- we could immediately take that I guess. Of course she is a Respiratory Care Specialist working at the hospital and they check her for C-19-virus every day before she starts her 12 hours shift. She goes straight to work and straight back to home-- nowhere else-- as I do all the shopping, all the going, all the running. This has been the way- for almost 8 weeks now and will stay the way we work it.
I take the risks of engaging the public, while she takes the risks working in the hospital. Currently there are no C-19 virus cases in her hospital, zero.. ... -Tyr

Drummond

04-07-2020, 07:26 PM

You can educate him and school him as you just did. You can post video and articles from both right leaning sites and the leftest of the left showing either wrongdoing from the left, or admitting that his heroes who are involved in wrongdoing did anything, or that they and the MSM like to lie to us, non-stop. He won't ever see wrongdoing from the left, not of those of the leaders and all of those posted for many years here. He will deny it happened. He will ignore any proof or evidence or facts anyone should post. He will ignore the very words of the folks themselves. He will ignore. He will deny. He will blame the source no matter what is in the source, no matter who it got its information from. He'll post a half a sentence and a link to some garbage and then bail after that. Or ignore. Or he suddenly gets busy and disappears when it's something "big" and he gets nailed to the cross. That's a month missing at least. Then it's "client time". Or when nailed, he will pull out the "I don't have time for this or that BS and to be here like you losers" garbage. You get the idea, every excuse and disappearing act known to man. Not an honest bone in his body and is the leader of all lying partisan hacks.

Overstating and exaggeration? Plllllleeeeeease. That just barely covers the tip with his intellectual dishonesty and intellectual shortcomings.

Pete will never, ever, give ground.

Tell him the earth is round, and if his Left-leaning buddies are entrenched in escapist propaganda (i.e, LIES) that say otherwise ... he'll never concede that it IS round.

Believing in Leftist propaganda absolutely requires slavish devotion to all that propaganda says. Nothing, absolutely nothing, that'll impinge to the most microscopic degree on the veracity of that propaganda can, or will, ever be acknowledged as true.

This is Pete's standpoint, and it's utterly immovable. YOU must bend to HIM ... never, but never, can it ever be the other way around. Forget truth. The truth to Pete is not WHAT it is, but what he SAYS it is.

This will never change. It's in the nature of the creed he's enslaved to. NEVER admit to error. NEVER concede any inconvenient truth. Dogma is literally all.

Gunny

04-07-2020, 08:18 PM

You can educate him and school him as you just did. You can post video and articles from both right leaning sites and the leftest of the left showing either wrongdoing from the left, or admitting that his heroes who are involved in wrongdoing did anything, or that they and the MSM like to lie to us, non-stop. He won't ever see wrongdoing from the left, not of those of the leaders and all of those posted for many years here. He will deny it happened. He will ignore any proof or evidence or facts anyone should post. He will ignore the very words of the folks themselves. He will ignore. He will deny. He will blame the source no matter what is in the source, no matter who it got its information from. He'll post a half a sentence and a link to some garbage and then bail after that. Or ignore. Or he suddenly gets busy and disappears when it's something "big" and he gets nailed to the cross. That's a month missing at least. Then it's "client time". Or when nailed, he will pull out the "I don't have time for this or that BS and to be here like you losers" garbage. You get the idea, every excuse and disappearing act known to man. Not an honest bone in his body and is the leader of all lying partisan hacks.

Overstating and exaggeration? Plllllleeeeeease. That just barely covers the tip with his intellectual dishonesty and intellectual shortcomings.True enough. Look how he dumped this thread and went to another like he didn't get his ass kicked at all in this one. Last I looked, he was already 1-2 threads on down the denial line.

Gunny

04-07-2020, 08:22 PM

My wife still has a leftover month's supply from when she quit taking it as a second medication for her arthritis. So if the virus hits either of us- we could immediately take that I guess. Of course she is a Respiratory Care Specialist working at the hospital and they check her for C-19-virus every day before she starts her 12 hours shift. She goes straight to work and straight back to home-- nowhere else-- as I do all the shopping, all the going, all the running. This has been the way- for almost 8 weeks now and will stay the way we work it.
I take the risks of engaging the public, while she takes the risks working in the hospital. Currently there are no C-19 virus cases in her hospital, zero.. ... -TyrGiven the circumstances, looks to me like "married well" just went to "jackpot" :)

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

04-07-2020, 09:14 PM

Given the circumstances, looks to me like "married well" just went to "jackpot" :)

sshhhh! Not too loud with that info my friend-- I've got her thinking she hit the jackpot..:laugh::laugh::laugh::dance:

And she thinks my poetry is great-- a double for me!

But you are right on the mark with your astute observation..... just dont say it too loud-- she might get wind of it.

Then the jig would be up , after 15 plus years now, and still going strong. ;)--Tyr

jimnyc

04-08-2020, 09:55 AM

Some repeats in there, but a little collection of success and hope...

Long Island doctor tries new twist on hydroxychloroquine for elderly COVID-19 patients

Alam began treating his patients, 45 of whom had tested positive for the coronavirus after they developed a high fever, shortness of breath and cough.

He received permission from their families before starting them on the medications, which have not yet undergone randomized controlled trials.

“The majority had clinical improvement,” said Alam. “We had very good outcomes.”

Alam said that 38 of 47 patients treated returned to their baseline and their symptoms resolved. Seven of the patients were transferred to a hospital and two died.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/04/long-island-doctor-tries-new-hydroxychloroquine-for-covid-19-patients/

LA doctor seeing success with hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19

LOS ANGELES (KABC) -- A Los Angeles doctor said he is seeing significant success in prescribing the malaria drug hydroxychloroquine in combination with zinc to treat patients with severe symptoms of COVID-19.

Hydroxychloroquine has been touted as a possible treatment for COVID-19 by President Trump among others, but it remains controversial as some experts believe it is unproven and may not be effective.

The drug has long been used for treatment of malaria and conditions such as lupus and arthritis but is not technically approved by the FDA for COVID-19. The agency, however, is encouraging trials and has provided limited emergency authorization for its use to treat COVID-19 patients.

Dr. Anthony Cardillo said he has seen very promising results when prescribing hydroxychloroquine in combination with zinc for the most severely-ill COVID-19 patients.

"Every patient I've prescribed it to has been very, very ill and within 8 to 12 hours, they were basically symptom-free," Cardillo told Eyewitness News. "So clinically I am seeing a resolution."

https://abc7.com/coronavirus-drug-covid-19-malaria-hydroxychloroquine/6079864/

Hydroxychloroquine rated 'most effective therapy' by doctors for coronavirus: Global survey

An international poll of more than 6,000 doctors released Thursday found that the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine was the most highly rated treatment for the novel coronavirus.

The survey conducted by Sermo, a global health care polling company, of 6,227 physicians in 30 countries found that 37% of those treating COVID-19 patients rated hydroxychloroquine as the “most effective therapy” from a list of 15 options.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/2/hydroxychloroquine-rated-most-effective-therapy-do/

Treating with hydroxychloroquine

One North Jersey doctor says he’s treated more than 100 patients at Saint Barnabas Medical Center and has had success using a combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin, an antibiotic.

“I think this is the beginning of the end of the pandemic,” the doctor, Stephen Smith, said last week when interviewed by Laura Ingraham, a conservative host of a television show on Fox. He is head of the Smith Center for Infectious Diseases and Urban Health in East Orange.

On Monday, Smith said only one of about 75 patients receiving a full course of the drugs had to be intubated — have a tracheal tube inserted to use a ventilator. He said that was Sunday night.

“He was an outlier,” Smith said of the patient.

https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/coronavirus/2020/04/07/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-nj-doctors-use-malaria-drug/2951640001/

Dr. Vladimir Zelenko Has Now treated 699 Coronavirus Patients With 100% Success Using Hydroxychloroquine Sulfate, Zinc And Z-Pak

Last Wednesday, we published the success story from Dr. Vladimir Zelenko, a board-certified family practitioner in New York, after he successfully treated 350 coronavirus patients with 100 percent success using a cocktail of drugs: hydroxychloroquine, in combination with azithromycin (Z-Pak), an antibiotic to treat secondary infections, and zinc sulfate. Dr. Zelenko said he saw the symptom of shortness of breath resolved within four to six hours after treatment.

Now, Dr. Zelenko provides updates on the treatment after he successfully treated 699 COVID-19 patients in New York. In an exclusive interview with former New York Mayor, Rudy Giuliani, Dr. Vladmir Zelenko shares the results of his latest study, which showed that out of his 699 patients treated, zero patients died, zero patients intubated, and four hospitalizations…

https://tsionizm.com/science-technology/2020/03/30/dr-vladimir-zelenko-has-now-treated-699-coronavirus-patients-with-100-success-using-hydroxychloroquine-sulfate-zinc-and-z-pak/

A man with coronavirus who works in LA says the drug used to treat malaria saved his life

LOS ANGELES - Rio Giardinieri, 52, who is vice-president of a company that manufactures cooking equipment at high-end restaurants in LA and around the world, thinks he contracted COVID-19 at a conference in New York. He had a fever for five days, horrendous back pain, headache, cough, and tiredness. He was sleeping about 15 hours a day when he’s used to getting five hours a night.

“I was at the point where I was barely able to speak and breathing was very challenging. I really thought my end was there. I had been through nine days of solid pain and for me, the end was there. So I made some calls to say in my own way goodbye to my friends and family.” A dear friend immediately sent him a recent article about hydroxychloroquine, an old anti-malaria medicine proven successful to treat COVID-19 patients overseas, and insisted he take the drug.

So, Giardinieri reached out to an infectious disease doctor. “He gave me all the reasons why I would probably not want to try it because there are no trials, there’s no testing, it was not something that was approved. And I said look I don’t know if I’m going to make it until the morning because at that point I really thought I was coming to the end because I couldn’t breathe anymore. He agreed and authorized the use of it and 30 minutes later the nurse gave it to me.

...

“Not to mention the recovery period for patients,” Giardinieri says, for him, it was life-saving.

“I just want everyone to know there’s an option. You don’t have to just sit there and hydrate. There’s a medicine that’s working.”He had three doses of the medicine Saturday. Doctors now have to wait to make sure coronavirus is knocked out of his system so he doesn’t infect anyone else. He’s hoping to go home to his family in about five days.

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/a-man-with-coronavirus-who-works-in-la-says-the-drug-used-to-treat-malaria-saved-his-life

Doctors Join Pennacchio’s Call to Use Hydroxychloroquine to Combat Spread of COVID-19

Jim Santilli, a coronavirus patient, says hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin saved his life

Jim Santilli, a coronavirus patient from Detroit, credits hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin for his quick recovery saying the the two drugs saved his life. Santilli was recently given the antimalaria drug that is showing positive results for beating COVID-19. Jim Santilli said it helped him and he believes it could help others, too.

“I was struggling to breathe. I felt like I was slowly drowning and I was sitting there thinking I’m not going to make it until midnight,” he said. Santilli says the antimalaria drug Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin brought him back to life. The 38-year old Detroit resident was prescribed the drugs a little more than a week ago at Henry Ford Macomb where he was hospitalized for COVID-19.

https://techstartups.com/2020/03/31/jim-santilli-a-coronavirus-patient-says-hydroxychloroquine-and-azithromycin-saved-his-life/

Actor Daniel Dae Kim says anti-malaria drug touted by President Trump saved his life

https://techstartups.com/2020/03/23/actor-daniel-dae-kim-says-anti-malaria-drug-touted-president-trump-saved-life/

Top 50 U.S. Doctors Join The Call to Use Hydroxychloroquine to Combat Spread of COVID-19. Federal and State governments should immediately direct public policy towards increasing production, storage and establishing a distribution protocol and regimen for HCQ to ameliorate the spread of the COVID-19 virus. This was the conclusion reached by U.S. academic studies in response to French infectious disease specialist Dr. Raoult’s peer review study, saying HCQ has a strong potential as a prophylactic measure against the severity of COVID-19, 50 U.S. doctors said in a public release.

Michigan Democratic lawmaker says hydroxychloroquine saved her life

A Michigan state lawmaker infected with COVID-19 is crediting the controversial anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine with saving her life — saying she felt better within a few hours of taking her prescription.

Democratic state Rep. Karen Whitsett of Detroit told FOX News’ “The Ingraham Angle” Monday that she went into home quarantine on March 12, the day she last attended a session at the State House in Lansing, and her condition only got worse from there.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/07/michigan-democrat-says-hydroxychloroquine-saved-her-life/

https://www.virology.ws/2020/03/19/hydroxychloroquine-reduces-viral-load-and-symptoms-in-covid-19-patients/

Dr. Vladimir (Zev) Zelenko
Board Certified Family Practitioner
501 Rt 208, Monroe, NY 10950
845-238-0000

March 23, 2020

To all medical professionals around the world:

My name is Dr. Zev Zelenko and I practice medicine in Monroe, NY. For the last 16 years, I have cared for approximately 75% of the adult population of Kiryas Joel, which is a very close knit community of approximately 35,000 people in which the infection spread rapidly and unchecked prior to the imposition of social distancing.

As of today my team has tested approximately 200 people from this community for Covid-19, and 65% of the results have been positive. If extrapolated to the entire community, that means more than 20,000 people are infected at the present time. Of this group, I estimate that there are 1500 patients who are in the high-risk category (i.e. >60, immunocompromised, comorbidities, etc).

Given the urgency of the situation, I developed the following treatment protocol in the pre-hospital setting and have seen only positive results:

1. Any patient with shortness of breath regardless of age is treated.
2. Any patient in the high-risk category even with just mild symptoms is treated.
3. Young, healthy and low risk patients even with symptoms are not treated (unless their circumstances change and they fall into category 1 or 2).

My out-patient treatment regimen is as follows:

1. Hydroxychloroquine 200mg twice a day for 5 days
2. Azithromycin 500mg once a day for 5 days
3. Zinc sulfate 220mg once a day for 5 days

The rationale for my treatment plan is as follows. I combined the data available from China and South Korea with the recent study published from France (sites available on request). We know that hydroxychloroquine helps Zinc enter the cell. We know that Zinc slows viral replication within the cell. Regarding the use of azithromycin, I postulate it prevents secondary bacterial infections. These three drugs are well known and usually well tolerated, hence the risk to the patient is low.

Since last Thursday, my team has treated approximately 350 patients in Kiryas Joel and another 150 patients in other areas of New York with the above regimen.

Of this group and the information provided to me by affiliated medical teams, we have had ZERO deaths, ZERO hospitalizations, and ZERO intubations. In addition, I have not heard of any negative side effects other than approximately 10% of patients with temporary nausea and diarrhea.

In sum, my urgent recommendation is to initiate treatment in the outpatient setting as soon as possible in accordance with the above. Based on my direct experience, it prevents acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), prevents the need for hospitalization and saves lives.

With much respect,

Dr. Zev Zelenko

Abbey Marie

04-08-2020, 12:42 PM

Pete will never, ever, give ground.

Tell him the earth is round, and if his Left-leaning buddies are entrenched in escapist propaganda (i.e, LIES) that say otherwise ... he'll never concede that it IS round.

Believing in Leftist propaganda absolutely requires slavish devotion to all that propaganda says. Nothing, absolutely nothing, that'll impinge to the most microscopic degree on the veracity of that propaganda can, or will, ever be acknowledged as true.

This is Pete's standpoint, and it's utterly immovable. YOU must bend to HIM ... never, but never, can it ever be the other way around. Forget truth. The truth to Pete is not WHAT it is, but what he SAYS it is.

This will never change. It's in the nature of the creed he's enslaved to. NEVER admit to error. NEVER concede any inconvenient truth. Dogma is literally all.

Have had this sentiment in my signature for a while.