Bush desecrating our nations flag???

[LiberalNation]

Doesn't bother me at all but some of you flag people it might I guess. AP is the source of the image so likely real.

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/6069/bushflagdesecrationil5.jpg

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/president_bush_defaces_flag/

[MtnBiker]

2003 called it wants its trival issue back. :rolleyes:

[LiberalNation]

So this is okay and trival but anyone else descreating the flag is wrong and a traitor to our country.:poke:

[glockmail]

Back when I was your age libnat it was considered desecration to have the flag, or a portion, as part of your dress, unless a complete patch. Nowdays they make flag underwear. This is the result of "progressive" policies, or more bluntly, liberalism. So why would the presidential autograph on a 10 cent plastic flag upset you?

[LiberalNation]

It doesn't upset me but why doesn't it upset all you supposed patriots. You throw a fit when your political opponents do it, why is this different.

[Dilloduck]

It doesn't upset me but why doesn't it upset all you supposed patriots. You throw a fit when your political opponents do it, why is this different.

Your not that stupid-----try thinking about the intent of the act.

signing a flag----burning a flag

[glockmail]

It doesn't upset me but why doesn't it upset all you supposed patriots. You throw a fit when your political opponents do it, why is this different. I don't think you've ever seen me throw a fit. And actually this is the first time that I have seen this phenomenon. I would be upset if Bush was the only one doing it, but now you allude that your side (Liberals) do it as well. Doesn't that therefore make it OK? Or is this just simply one more double-standard?

[glockmail]

Your not that stupid-----try thinking about the intent of the act.

signing a flag----burning a flag Putting one upside down as your avatar...

[82Marine89]

It doesn't upset me but why doesn't it upset all you supposed patriots. You throw a fit when your political opponents do it, why is this different.

Yes, it does upset me. I also get pissed when I see the American flag made into bikinis, bandannas, and jackets. He should know better and yes, since he is the POTUS, I do hold him to a higher standard.

[manu1959]

Doesn't bother me at all but some of you flag people it might I guess. AP is the source of the image so likely real.

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/6069/bushflagdesecrationil5.jpg

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/president_bush_defaces_flag/

a great president signing a great flag....i will give him a pass....

[LiberalNation]

I would be upset if Bush was the only one doing it, but now you allude that your side (Liberals) do it as well. Doesn't that therefore make it OK? Or is this just simply one more double-standard?
I never said it wasn't okay or critizized Bush for it. I don't think it is wrong, that's my opinion, however many of you here do.

My question was, if you believe so strongly about a flag why would you give Bush a pass for "desacreating" it if you are. If it's a trival issue when Bush does it, why isn't trival when others do.

[LiberalNation]

Yes, it does upset me. I also get pissed when I see the American flag made into bikinis, bandannas, and jackets. He should know better and yes, since he is the POTUS, I do hold him to a higher standard.
Good for you for being consistent at least.

[glockmail]

I never said it wasn't okay or critizized Bush for it. I don't think it is wrong, that's my opinion, however many of you here do.

My question was, if you believe so strongly about a flag why would you give Bush a pass for "desacreating" it if you are. If it's a trival issue when Bush does it, why isn't trival when others do. I think I explained myself adequately previously.

[MtnBiker]

The President gives a speech then goes on to sign autographs, some one hands him a small flag, he signs it.

A protester burns a flag in a display of hatered for the US.

Yup, those are the both the same. :rolleyes:

[LiberalNation]

Yes but since you asked that was my adequat explanation for anyone who didn't get it the first time.

So motive behind the descration is what matters to you, not the act itself? Without a negative motive it is not so bad, I'm a getting it right.

[LiberalNation]

Yup, those are the both the same. :rolleyes:
Not exactly of course but they both fall under flag desacreation. Should one be wrong and not the other considering this.

Shouldn't the president be held to a higher standard regarding treatment of the flag considering the office he holds which was gona be my second point but it was brought up before I had the chance.

[Sitarro]

That doesn't look like President Bush. I know his father is left handed but I'm not sure about W. It doesn't really look like him anyway, it looks very staged. I'm sure that no one would do something like that would they?

[MtnBiker]

No, it is still the act.

[LiberalNation]

That doesn't look like President Bush. I know his father is left handed but I'm not sure about W. It doesn't really look like him anyway, it looks very staged. I'm sure that no one would do something like that would they?
Could be faked but all I've found on it points to it being real. Not the best shot, looks like the photagrapher was fighting for a place crowding around him.

[Missileman]

No, it is still the act.

I disagree. Desecrating the flag is desecrating the flag. If that's truly Bush autographing a flag, when the person handed it to him to sign he should have explained flag etiquette to him/her while handing it back to them UNSIGNED. It's called leadership by example. Unfortunately, it is an attribute that is seen less and less often in DC.

[MtnBiker]

Sec. 8.
Any rule or custom pertaining to the display of the flag of the United States of America, set forth herein, may be altered, modified, or repealed, or additional rules with respect thereto may be prescribed, by the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States, whenever he deems it to be appropriate or desirable; and any such alteration or additional rule shall be set forth in a proclamation.

Link (http://www.wi.net/flag.html)

[Missileman]

Link (http://www.wi.net/flag.html)

The president can alter customs pertaining to the DISPLAY of the flag. Doesn't say anything about him being able to waiver the TREATMENT of the flag.

[Abbey Marie]

This apparently happened in June, 2006.

[MtnBiker]

Sec. 8.
Any rule or custom pertaining to the display of the flag of the United States of America, set forth herein, may be altered, modified, or repealed, or additional rules with respect thereto may be prescribed, by the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States, whenever he deems it to be appropriate or desirable; and any such alteration or additional rule shall be set forth in a proclamation.

Link (http://www.wi.net/flag.html)

Really guys, it is a non issue.

[Missileman]

Link (http://www.wi.net/flag.html)

Really guys, it is a non issue.

No really, he oughta know better! It is expressly forbidden and NOT something he can waive on a whim.

[82Marine89]

IMHO, there is no difference between him signing the flag and LN's avatar of the burning of the American flag. Staged or not, it boils my blood. If you all remember, we got hot and bothered over a picture and some here said don't fret, it's just a photo. Staged or not. Photo or real life. Either way it is wrong.

[Gunny]

So this is okay and trival but anyone else descreating the flag is wrong and a traitor to our country.:poke:

Is that an official sized US flag ... or a miniature replica?

You're fishing.

[Gunny]

I don't think you've ever seen me throw a fit. And actually this is the first time that I have seen this phenomenon. I would be upset if Bush was the only one doing it, but now you allude that your side (Liberals) do it as well. Doesn't that therefore make it OK? Or is this just simply one more double-standard?

No dude ... what she's doing is equating Bush signing a miniature replica flag with burning a full/standard-size, actual US flag.

[LiberalNation]

Is a flag a flag, or does it have to be an exact measured size to be considered one.

You're fishing as well.

[LiberalNation]

No dude ... what she's doing is equating Bush signing a miniature replica flag with burning a full/standard-size, actual US flag.
read post 26, so is he and I wasn't claiming = or otherwise.

[Dilloduck]

IMHO, there is no difference between him signing the flag and LN's avatar of the burning of the American flag. Staged or not, it boils my blood. If you all remember, we got hot and bothered over a picture and some here said don't fret, it's just a photo. Staged or not. Photo or real life. Either way it is wrong.

LNs attempt to equate Bush signing a plastic flag to those who burn it is silly bullshit. I admire your patriotism but don't lose sight of reality here.

[82Marine89]

LNs attempt to equate Bush signing a plastic flag to those who burn it is silly bullshit. I admire your patriotism but don't lose sight of reality here.

This is where I have differences with others. Not that I get pissed at them, because I don't. I just don't understand why the size or the material that it is made of changes the fact that the POTUS is autographing an American flag.

Yes, LN is trying to stir the pot, but she does bring up a good point with this. Why do we chastise those who burn the flag, but we give a pass to those who use it as an article of clothing or sign their name to it? Is there really a difference?

[Dilloduck]

This is where I have differences with others. Not that I get pissed at them, because I don't. I just don't understand why the size or the material that it is made of changes the fact that the POTUS is autographing an American flag.

Yes, LN is trying to stir the pot, but she does bring up a good point with this. Why do we chastise those who burn the flag, but we give a pass to those who use it as an article of clothing or sign their name to it? Is there really a difference?

Maybe not legally but that's not LNs' intent. I can tell the difference between a person who a person who is signing a flag crammed in front of his face to sign and one who douses a flag with gas and gleefully burns it.

[Gunny]

Is a flag a flag, or does it have to be an exact measured size to be considered one.

You're fishing as well.

Not fishing at all. Pointing out the glaringly obvious apples-n-oranges comparison you attempt to make. Flag burners don't burn miniature replicas. They burn official, full-sized US flags.

[Gunny]

This is where I have differences with others. Not that I get pissed at them, because I don't. I just don't understand why the size or the material that it is made of changes the fact that the POTUS is autographing an American flag.

Yes, LN is trying to stir the pot, but she does bring up a good point with this. Why do we chastise those who burn the flag, but we give a pass to those who use it as an article of clothing or sign their name to it? Is there really a difference?

I wouldn't chastise some nimrod burning a miniature replica, just as I wouldn't chastise some nimrod for burning his US flag-designed drawers.

[jimnyc]

Here's my take on this since I was so angry about those that defended the right to burn the American Flag.

In our society today we have t-shirts, jackets, hats, underwear, pants and just about everything else being made with flags on them to be sold. I'd rather it be left as a symbol of our nation, but at least those wishing to wear said products are generally doing so out of inspiration to show their respect or patriotism.

I've seen people use flag patches, and stitch hundreds of holes through it in order to cover a hole in their pants. I'd rather they didn't, but I don't believe their intent is to desecrate and/or disrespect the flag.

At my doctors office they have a 6 foot flag hung on the wall with the names of every person who perished on 9/11 inscribed on the stripes. While I'd rather it was next to it, it's quite obvious it was an attempt to give remembrance to so many Americans who lost their lives, and to show America hasn't forgotten.

I see bumper stickers everywhere with the American Flag, and they tend to turn a darker color after awhile due to the exhaust from the vehicles. There are probably better ways to display the flag, but I won't be as passionate against those who are trying to show they are proud Americans.

I have no verification that the picture of Bush is authentic. If it is, he probably shouldn't have written on it. But it was a tiny replica flag, from an American admirer who is also a Bush admirer, and wanted a souvenir of remembrance.

Someone who takes an American Flag and burning it is doing so out of complete disrespect to our country and leaders.

So yes, I'd rather all flags be protected and people learn more about what it stands for, and give it better protection. But to equate this issue with our prior discussion about burning the flag is ludicrous in my opinion.

[JohnDoe]

I don't think you've ever seen me throw a fit. And actually this is the first time that I have seen this phenomenon. I would be upset if Bush was the only one doing it, but now you allude that your side (Liberals) do it as well. Doesn't that therefore make it OK? Or is this just simply one more double-standard?

Good Morning Glock!

Oh it IS a double standard alright, but the hypocrisy comes from the people that threw a fit about desicrating the flag via burning it. :poke:

someone earlier said look at the intent.... or burning verses writing on it...
but that is the point, they BOTH REPRESENT free speech....the person's sentiment, who owns the flag.

Tell me, if it were Kerry that was desecrating the Flag by writing on it, would conservatives show their hypocrisy by throwing a tizzy fit, specifically...would Palerider :)?


What if Kerry's words on the flag were deragatory verses something nice, would that make a difference?

[glockmail]

No dude ... what she's doing is equating Bush signing a miniature replica flag with burning a full/standard-size, actual US flag.
You're taking the frontal assualt on this. I'm behind the lines targeting key infrastructure.

[glockmail]

Good Morning Glock!

Oh it IS a double standard alright, but the hypocrisy comes from the people that threw a fit about desicrating the flag via burning it. :poke:

someone earlier said look at the intent.... or burning verses writing on it...
but that is the point, they BOTH REPRESENT free speech....the person's sentiment, who owns the flag.

Tell me, if it were Kerry that was desecrating the Flag by writing on it, would conservatives show their hypocrisy by throwing a tizzy fit, specifically...would Palerider :)?


What if Kerry's words on the flag were deragatory verses something nice, would that make a difference? Good morning petite babe,
1. I wasn't one tossing a fit about this issue last time it was brought up. I'm on record here as supporting flag burners, as it shows everyone who sees them how unpatriotic and loathsome they are. I wouldn't arrest them for pouring gasoline on themselves and burning themselves up either.
2. I’d rather it be like the old days when we didn’t have clothing made to look like flags. I’d rather my neighbors not leave their flags out unlit at night. I’d rather not see a flag that’s faded and torn, neglected, and in fact I’ve taken such flags down myself and disposed of them in a respectful manner. But now that we’ve reached that progression its hypocrisy for the progressives to complain about it.
3. If Kerry autographs a replica flag like Bush is doing my sentiments would be the same.

[JohnDoe]

Good morning petite babe,
1. I wasn't one tossing a fit about this issue last time it was brought up. I'm on record here as supporting flag burners, as it shows everyone who sees them how unpatriotic and loathsome they are. I wouldn't arrest them for pouring gasoline on themselves and burning themselves up either.


tsk tsk! hahahaha!

And Good Morning lean and mean! ;)

[jimnyc]

Oh it IS a double standard alright, but the hypocrisy comes from the people that threw a fit about desicrating the flag via burning it.

I'd like for you to more clearly point out my hypocrisy or double standard. I'm against the use of the American Flag for anything other than use in a display of honor. But this is my opinion, and I won't hold others desire to use the flag in a symbolic manner honoring our country in the same light as those who wish to burn the flag.

And I'm unsure why you bring left or right into this, or John Kerry. This is a national issue and my stances won't change in the slightest bit by who is engaging in the activity. If John Kerry raises the flag in honor of our country, I applaud him. Should he sign a mini replica flag, I'll state I'd rather he didn't, but I know he didn't mean dishonor by it. Should he burn the flag, I will shout from the mountain tops that he is an asshole.

[retiredman]

Should he burn the flag, I will shout from the mountain tops that he is an asshole.


I agree with all of that, but I will also say that my service in the navy was to protect everyone's right to burn flags or bras or draft cards or stand on soapboxes in the public square and say whatever the hell they please.

When we allow someone to burn the flag, we are only proving how marvelous and substantive are these wonderful freedoms in this glorious country that that flag represents. Speak! demonstrate! boycott! we can do all those things if we want to in America. Ain't that grand???

[glockmail]

I agree with all of that, but I will also say that my service in the navy was to protect everyone's right to burn flags or bras or draft cards or stand on soapboxes in the public square and say whatever the hell they please.

....

1. Gee, you were in the Navy? I hadn't heard about that before.:rolleyes:
2. Gee, I thought the Navy's role was to protect this country from foreign invaders. Whoda thunk it was tasked to protect flag burning? Why do they need all them big boats to do that?:pee:

[jimnyc]

I agree with all of that, but I will also say that my service in the navy was to protect everyone's right to burn flags or bras or draft cards or stand on soapboxes in the public square and say whatever the hell they please.

When we allow someone to burn the flag, we are only proving how marvelous and substantive are these wonderful freedoms in this glorious country that that flag represents. Speak! demonstrate! boycott! we can do all those things if we want to in America. Ain't that grand???

I guess I can sort of agree with that. I can't speak from military experience as I was never enlisted. And while I do believe in many rights, and hold these freedoms in high regard, I personally think burning the flag is outright despicable and would support a ban on it's act.

[JohnDoe]

1. Gee, you were in the Navy? I hadn't heard about that before.:rolleyes:
2. Gee, I thought the Navy's role was to protect this country from foreign invaders. Whoda thunk it was tasked to protect flag burning? Why do they need all them big boats to do that?:pee:

But i thought their sworn duty was to protect the CONSTITUTION from BOTH foreign and domestic enemies?

[retiredman]

I guess I can sort of agree with that. I can't speak from military experience as I was never enlisted. And while I do believe in many rights, and hold these freedoms in high regard, I personally think burning the flag is outright despicable and would support a ban on it's act.


nah... the thing that makes us, as a nation, different, is that the rights we have are nearly absolute. ONce you start restricting one thing, it will be so much easier to restrict the next politically popular thing...

flag burners give us all a chance to privately rejoice in the incredible breadth and depth of our freedoms...even as we publicly and consciously denounce their activity...and that denouncing is just as protected as the flag burning...and that denouncing is just as protected even if it is denouncing a war or a law.

I'm tellin' ya.... nowhere else on earth do people have such freedoms in society.

PLEASE don't be so quick to give even a part of them away just to prevent people from doing something that angers or annoys you.

[jimnyc]

PLEASE don't be so quick to give even a part of them away just to prevent people from doing something that angers or annoys you.

Ok, if I give in and allow them "legally" to have the right to burn the flag, can I please still reserve the "right" to kick their asses when I see them doing it? :laugh2:

[retiredman]

Ok, if I give in and allow them "legally" to have the right to burn the flag, can I please still reserve the "right" to kick their asses when I see them doing it? :laugh2:

with words.... of course!

[82Marine89]

I wouldn't chastise some nimrod burning a miniature replica, just as I wouldn't chastise some nimrod for burning his US flag-designed drawers.

I would. Days after 9/11, the local mosque handed out miniature American flags after one of its terrorist training meetings. As some of the members of the cell were walking past my house on the way to their cars, one of them placed the flag on the sidewalk, stepped on it, pulled the staff off of it and kept walking. I came unglued, charged the guy, and took him to the ground. I was handcuffed by the police, but charges were not filed. Granted my emotions were high because I had just lost two cousins and a friend in the towers. The size of the flag meant nothing to me. It was what he had done to it.

[jimnyc]

with words.... of course!

I'll give that a try if I ever see someone attempting to do so. But I have anger issues, would you believe that? Seriously, I know it sounds hard to believe, but sometimes I have issues controlling my temper!

[glockmail]

But i thought their sworn duty was to protect the CONSTITUTION from BOTH foreign and domestic enemies? I thought the Prez was tasked to uphold the Constitution, the Militia to squash insurrections, and the Navy to protect us from pirates and invaders. I don't see anything in the Constitution that tasks an entity to protect flag burners.

[glockmail]

I would. Days after 9/11, the local mosque handed out miniature American flags after one of its terrorist training meetings. As some of the members of the cell were walking past my house on the way to their cars, one of them placed the flag on the sidewalk, stepped on it, pulled the staff off of it and kept walking. I came unglued, charged the guy, and took him to the ground. I was handcuffed by the police, but charges were not filed. Granted my emotions were high because I had just lost two cousins and a friend in the towers. The size of the flag meant nothing to me. It was what he had done to it.:salute:

[glockmail]

with words.... of course! Exactly how does one "kick some ass" with words?

[Monkeybone]

the Navy is also there to protect us from Godzilla

[retiredman]

Exactly how does one "kick some ass" with words?

well.... I have to say that the fact that YOU would ask such a question comes as no surprise. :laugh2:

[retiredman]

the Navy is also there to protect us from Godzilla

and we did a hell of a job!

[Monkeybone]

and we did a hell of a job!

:laugh2: ahh. that made me crack up.

but yah...the kicking ass with words. that is a good thing, but if you were to be right there where someone was burning the Flag.... word might not come coherently to mind, nor be the first response that springs up...yippee.....

[JohnDoe]

I thought the Prez was tasked to uphold the Constitution, the Militia to squash insurrections, and the Navy to protect us from pirates and invaders. I don't see anything in the Constitution that tasks an entity to protect flag burners.

well, even as an old dog, lean, mean, machine,

you can learn a new thing or two! :lol:


The United States Military Oath of Allegiance is a solemn oath taken by members of the United States Armed Services on commissioning. It differs slightly from that of the oath of enlistment that enlisted members recite when they enter the service.


Text of the Oath of Allegiance

"I, {insert name here}, do solemnly swear, (or affirm), that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God." (Note that the last sentence is not required to be said if the speaker has a personal or moral objection)

-------------------------------------------
The oath of enlistment into the United States Armed Forces is administered by any commissioned officer to any person enlisting or re-enlisting for a term of service into any branch of the military. The officer asks the person, or persons, to raise their right hand and repeat the oath after him. The oath is traditionally performed in front of the United States Flag and other flags, such as the state flag, military branch flag, and unit guidon may be present.

The oath is as follows:

"I, (state your name), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Note that the last sentence is not required to be said if the speaker has a personal or moral objection)

their oath is not necessarily to kick ass physically, though that may be what they have been tasked to do!

[retiredman]

:laugh2: ahh. that made me crack up.

but yah...the kicking ass with words. that is a good thing, but if you were to be right there where someone was burning the Flag.... word might not come coherently to mind, nor be the first response that springs up...yippee.....

I understand. but the fact of the matter is: burning a flag is a legal activity. assault is not.

[darin]

Doesn't bother me at all but some of you flag people it might I guess. AP is the source of the image so likely real.

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/6069/bushflagdesecrationil5.jpg

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/president_bush_defaces_flag/

....from the same person who uses burning-flag avatars??? Wha?

[JohnDoe]

....from the same person who uses burning-flag avatars??? Wha?

maybe she was trying to entice Palerider back and in full throttle? ;)

[glockmail]

well.... I have to say that the fact that YOU would ask such a question comes as no surprise. :laugh2:
Oh you mean the itty bitty woopin's I routinely give you around here? Heck that's not even close to real ass kickin' as we refer to it here in The South. I never realized you'd be so, well, delicate.

[glockmail]

well, even as an old dog, lean, mean, [***] machine,

you can learn a new thing or two! :lol:
.....

Awww, you can say it. I ain't ashamed.:2up:

[retiredman]

Oh you mean the itty bitty woopin's I routinely give you around here? Heck that's not even close to real ass kickin' as we refer to it here in The South. I never realized you'd be so, well, delicate.

you keep thinking that, big shooter. roomy has your number down in the other thread.:lol:

[JohnDoe]

Awww, you can say it. I ain't ashamed.:2up:

:laugh2: point taken and understood!!! now, shut up! lol ;) jd

[glockmail]

you keep thinking that, big shooter. roomy has your number down in the other thread.:lol: Roomy's a plagiarist, and a disappointment. You two have fun with the flock later though.

[retiredman]

so roomy's post was an adaptation of one of yours?

secretly autobiographical, I would imagine.... eh, "Ken"?:laugh2:

the point is really this: for you to enter into a verbal duel with me when you bring your education and intelligence and vocabulary and wit and writing ability and match them up against mine...it's like a guy bringing a knife to a gunfight.

[glockmail]

so roomy's post was an adaptation of one of yours?

secretly autobiographical, I would imagine.... eh, "Ken"?:laugh2:

the point is really this: for you to enter into a verbal duel with me when you bring your education and intelligence and vocabulary and wit and writing ability and match them up against mine...it's like a guy bringing a knife to a gunfight.


http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=110010&postcount=3

You are who you associate with.

[retiredman]

You are who you associate with.

what a nonsensical statement!

This evening, when I am dining out with my wife - associating with her - do I magically become her?

In fact, you are who YOU are.

We associate with people for a variety of disparate reasons, most of which have nothing to do with providing us with an identity.

[glockmail]

what a nonsensical statement!

This evening, when I am dining out with my wife - associating with her - do I magically become her?

In fact, you are who YOU are.

We associate with people for a variety of disparate reasons, most of which have nothing to do with providing us with an identity.:lame2:
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/mindbodyhelp/a/associate.htm

Nice try at deflection. The fact is you got a hard on by your buddy Roomy with the story about “Ken” and didn't realize that he had plagiarized me. Then your sorry ass claimed victory at your being so witty and intellectual. You should stick to what you do best: http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/sheepshag.gif

[retiredman]

:lame2:
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/mindbodyhelp/a/associate.htm

Nice try at deflection. The fact is you got a hard on by your buddy Roomy with the story about “Ken” and didn't realize that he had plagiarized me. Then your sorry ass claimed victory at your being so witty and intellectual. You should stick to what you do best: http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/sheepshag.gif


the story is funny. It was funny to me primarily because it was so incredibly on the mark. THEN when I found out that you had originally written it, it became profoundly funny...and a little bit sad, when I thought of you, writing your own story in the third person, like that... a lonely geek that everyone shunned. ah well.

I am not saying that you are devoid of intellect and wit...If I had, I would have said you were like the man who came unarmed to a gunfight. I, at least, allegorically, put a gun in your hand.

[Abbey Marie]

This thread is done.

[Abbey Marie]

Thread reopened for one more try. Let's try to stick to the topic, or at least to a tangential topic.

[LiberalNation]

....from the same person who uses burning-flag avatars??? Wha?
Yes the very same person.

and for gunny, so if I posted the burning of a mini flag that would be okay then? After all it isn't really a flag.

[LiberalNation]

Does size really matter? Or again is it the motive that matters. Is flag desecration okay as long as the motive behind it is something you agree with or can stand.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/202/440860485_bdd96fe2c9.jpg?v=0

[MtnBiker]

What does burning an American Flag mean? What does signing an American Flag mean?

[hjmick]

What does burning an American Flag mean? What does signing an American Flag mean?

These could be the best questions yet in this thread.

[MtnBiker]

I think LN supports the idea of hate crimes.

[LiberalNation]

What does burning an American Flag mean? What does signing an American Flag mean?
So like I said, it's the motive your against. You can burn a flag just for the fun of it, char it to hang on the wall as a keepsake like the bush sig one probably will end up being ect. You can make a flag into undies cuz you think it's pretty.

All different motives but all would be defined as desecreation.

http://re3.mm-a7.yimg.com/image/3786945930 (http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fs earch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dburning%2Bflag%26ei%3DUTF-8%26fr%3Dyfp-t-471%26b%3D161&w=420&h=319&imgurl=www.blogography.com%2Fphotos8%2FFlagUndies. jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blogography.com%2Farchives%2 F2005%2F07%2Fflag.html&size=19.6kB&name=FlagUndies.jpg&p=burning+flag&type=jpeg&no=161&tt=13,641&oid=287fb28f4c76649c&ei=UTF-8)

[MtnBiker]

So like I said, it's the motive your against.

I asked two question, how did you determine what I am against. How about answering the questions.

[LiberalNation]

There open questions, what can it mean. ANyone the person burning it wants it too. What can the sig mean anything the person signing and recieving it wants it to mean.

[MtnBiker]

There open questions, what can it mean. ANyone the person burning it wants it too. What can the sig mean anything the person signing and recieving it wants it to mean.

If it is not generally recognized then it means nothing and your hypothesis of desecration is meaningless.

[LiberalNation]

Nothing means anything.

There are general reason a person may do the act but that doesn't mean everytime the reason is that general. You asked "what" people mean by it. Not what is the popular meaning for doing it.

[MtnBiker]

If burning a flag did not have a meaning that was generally recognized then people would not do it. People burn flags for a reason.

[MtnBiker]

Nothing means anything.


Brilliant

is is

[LiberalNation]

If burning a flag did not have a meaning that was generally recognized then people would not do it. People burn flags for a reason.
and they sign flags for a reason. Both acts are still flag desecreation tho. What's your point cuz that's mine. I'm not saying their meaning are = but the acts themselves are described as the same thing. Flag desecreation.

[Gunny]

and they sign flags for a reason. Both acts are still flag desecreation tho. What's your point cuz that's mine. I'm not saying their meaning are = but the acts themselves are described as the same thing. Flag desecreation.

We have only YOUR definition that signing a miniature replica of the US flag is "desecration."


Desecrate:

1. to divest of sacred or hallowed character or office.
2. to divert from a sacred to a profane use or purpose.
3. to treat with sacrilege; profane.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/desecrate

I don't see that signing a flag necessarily fits the definition. Burning it as a symbolic burning of this nation however PERFECTLY fits.

[LiberalNation]

No it doesn't, not anymore than the signing. Many would think a flag bearing Bush's name as profane. Ie divert from a sacred to a profane use or purpose.

[Gunny]

No it doesn't, not anymore than the signing. Many would think a flag bearing Bush's name as profane. Ie divert from a sacred to a profane use or purpose.

It most certainly does by any reasonable standard. You have to misinterpret the words and twist Bush's intent to make the two actions comparable. There is nothing profane about it.

There IS something profane about symbolically destroying this nation when it doesn't kiss your political agenda's ass.

[LiberalNation]

Profane is subjective.

[glockmail]

the story is funny. It was funny to me primarily because it was so incredibly on the mark. THEN when I found out that you had originally written it, it became profoundly funny...and a little bit sad, when I thought of you, writing your own story in the third person, like that... a lonely geek that everyone shunned. ah well.

I am not saying that you are devoid of intellect and wit...If I had, I would have said you were like the man who came unarmed to a gunfight. I, at least, allegorically, put a gun in your hand.
Moved to here:
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=122135&postcount=48

[JohnDoe]

It most certainly does by any reasonable standard. You have to misinterpret the words and twist Bush's intent to make the two actions comparable. There is nothing profane about it.

There IS something profane about symbolically destroying this nation when it doesn't kiss your political agenda's ass.

really? but what about ''g'' and ''h'' for this matter in section 8?


§8. Respect for flag
a.No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.

b.The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.

c.The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.

d.The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.

e.The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.

f.The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.
The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.

g.The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.

h.The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.

i.The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.

j.No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

k.The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning

[Missileman]

really? but what about ''g'' and ''h'' for this matter in section 8?

Exactly! And paragraph "j" blows any size arguments out of the water.