Ukrainian Jet Down In Iran

[Kathianne]

Right now Iran says it was 'mechanical problems.' It's possible, as right outside of airport. All aboard killed.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/01/ukrainian-airliner-crashes-tehran-iranian-media-200108032720868.html

[Drummond]

Right now Iran says it was 'mechanical problems.' It's possible, as right outside of airport. All aboard killed.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/01/ukrainian-airliner-crashes-tehran-iranian-media-200108032720868.html

Quite a coincidence of timing, considering the missile attack, too.

Reports say that there were three British people aboard. Were there any Americans ?

Ah, well. Early days yet ... much to be investigated. This seems to me to be a 'watch this space' kind of story.

[Abbey Marie]

Apparently another Boeing plane...

[Kathianne]

Apparently another Boeing plane...
Yep. Looking less and less like an ‘accident.’

https://hotair.com/archives/john-s-2/2020/01/08/ukrainian-passenger-jet-went-iran-last-night/

[Kathianne]

More

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/01/iran-plane-737-crash-in-tehran-was-it-shot-down.html

[Drummond]

More

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/01/iran-plane-737-crash-in-tehran-was-it-shot-down.html

Doesn't look good.

Reports we've had over here say that the plane's crew did not send out a distress call, but, had tried to turn the plane around even as it was beginning to crash.

The way this incident has evolved makes it especially prone to conspiracy theories ! One could speculate that the plane was accidentally in range of attacking missiles. That Iran is REFUSING to hand over the plane's black box is of itself, of course, deeply suspicious.

Was the attack launched greater than the world believes, & did the plane get in the way of it ?

Then again, other theories are possible .. that refusal to hand over the box is simply Tehran's way of asserting its 'authoritative supremacy' to the world, just that. Petty one-upmanship coming from an authority demanding more than its rightful share of 'respect'.

We need to let time pass, and see what emerges.

[jimnyc]

Could perhaps be why they won't share the boxes? I don't trust them right now, or ever really.

--

MAJOR UPDATE: US CONFIDENT UKRAINIAN PLANE WAS SHOT DOWN IN IRAN! – Plane Has Shrapnel Damage on Wings and Fuselage — PHOTOS

The first footage was released on Wednesday at the crash site of the Ukrainian plane that that went down outside of Tehran moments after takeoff on Wednesday morning.

An Ukrainian Airlines plane carrying 180 passengers and crew crashed Wednesday morning just minutes after takeoff from Tehran, Iran!
This came on the same night that Iran fired over a dozen missiles at US bases in Iraq.
Al Hadath Dubai News reported a missile took down the Ukrainian flight after the crash on Wednesday.

(Tweets were translated)

Al Hadath: Preliminary images of the Ukrainian plane suspected of being hit by an Iranian missile

On Wednesday morning Iran refused to turn over the black box from the downed plane.

https://i.imgur.com/NgH8rU3.png

Ukrainian officials say the Boeing 737-800 involved in the crash is one of the best planes in the Ukrainian fleet.
And a local Iranian reportedly discovered a “control segment” of a TOR M1 missile near the the Ukrainian plane crash site.

https://i.imgur.com/1cJNmRB.png
https://i.imgur.com/38crrXj.png

Rest - https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/01/major-update-us-confident-ukrainian-plane-shot-down-plane-has-shrapnel-damage-on-wings-and-fuselage-photos/

[Kathianne]

Could perhaps be why they won't share the boxes? I don't trust them right now, or ever really.

--

MAJOR UPDATE: US CONFIDENT UKRAINIAN PLANE WAS SHOT DOWN IN IRAN! – Plane Has Shrapnel Damage on Wings and Fuselage — PHOTOS

The first footage was released on Wednesday at the crash site of the Ukrainian plane that that went down outside of Tehran moments after takeoff on Wednesday morning.

An Ukrainian Airlines plane carrying 180 passengers and crew crashed Wednesday morning just minutes after takeoff from Tehran, Iran!
This came on the same night that Iran fired over a dozen missiles at US bases in Iraq.
Al Hadath Dubai News reported a missile took down the Ukrainian flight after the crash on Wednesday.

(Tweets were translated)

Al Hadath: Preliminary images of the Ukrainian plane suspected of being hit by an Iranian missile

On Wednesday morning Iran refused to turn over the black box from the downed plane.

https://i.imgur.com/NgH8rU3.png

Ukrainian officials say the Boeing 737-800 involved in the crash is one of the best planes in the Ukrainian fleet.
And a local Iranian reportedly discovered a “control segment” of a TOR M1 missile near the the Ukrainian plane crash site.

https://i.imgur.com/1cJNmRB.png
https://i.imgur.com/38crrXj.png

Rest - https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/01/major-update-us-confident-ukrainian-plane-shot-down-plane-has-shrapnel-damage-on-wings-and-fuselage-photos/


What I'm reading and hearing is that it likely was Russian surface-to-air missile. They would have been employed after their attack on US housing areas. There are also now reports, including from Mike Pence, that Iran was just lucky they didn't kill US troops, that was their intent. US early warning systems got troops to protection.

[jimnyc]

Another one, and this one stating a missile but perhaps by accident? Supposedly from US officials, so...

--

BREAKING: Iranian Missile Likely Shot Down Ukrainian Plane By Mistake, Report Says

According to a breaking report from Newsweek, the recent Ukrainian Boeing 737 that fell to its death, killing all aboard, was likely the result of mistakenly fired Iranian anti-aircraft missiles.

“The Ukrainian flight that crashed just outside the Iranian capital of Tehran was struck by an anti-aircraft missile system, a Pentagon official, a senior U.S. intelligence official and an Iraqi intelligence official told Newsweek,” the outlet began.

“Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752, a Boeing 737–800 en route from Tehran Imam Khomeini International Airpot to Kyiv’s Boryspil International Airport, stopped transmitting data Tuesday just minutes after takeoff and not long after Iran launched missiles at military bases housing U.S. and allied forces in neighboring Iraq,” Newsweek continued. “The aircraft is believed to have been struck by a Russia-built Tor-M1 surface-to-air missile system, known to NATO as Gauntlet, the three officials told Newsweek.”

The weekly news magazine then reached its main point: “One Pentagon and one U.S senior intelligence official told Newsweek that the Pentagon’s assessment is that the incident was accidental. Iran’s anti-aircraft were likely active following the country’s missile attack, which came in response to the U.S. killing last week of Revolutionary Guard Quds Force commander Major General Qassem Soleimani, sources said.”

In total, 176 perished on the ill-fated flight. Sixty-three were Canadian nationals.

Rest - https://www.dailywire.com/news/breaking-iranian-missile-likely-shot-down-ukrainian-plane-by-mistake-report-says

[Drummond]

I can only give what must, surely, be the only decent reaction to this possible. Namely, that to do a regime such as the Iranian one ANY favours AT ALL is offensive in humanitarian terms.

Trump looked, to me, weak as hell when he gave his 'We think the Iranians have now stood down' speech. He looked subdued, and relieved that he could avoid taking them on any more (at that time).

I've said before that no sane person seeks war, seeks to cause it. BUT ... an evil regime can't be tolerated forever. Given enough time, opportunity, and little real opposition, it'll go on to do more and more harm.

I'm coming around to a brand of thinking which concludes that the only decent resolution to the problem of Iran should match the events of 2003, in Iraq. Replace the regime, see it smashed. That's now my thinking.

What further evils will we see, otherwise ? A nuclear-armed Iran ? An Iran that makes good on the old Ahmadinejad threats against Israel's very existence ?

I think what characterises Iran's regime is a contempt for human life. Where can toleration of this lead, if not to just the one ultimate outcome ?

[Kathianne]

Another one, and this one stating a missile but perhaps by accident? Supposedly from US officials, so...

--

BREAKING: Iranian Missile Likely Shot Down Ukrainian Plane By Mistake, Report Says

According to a breaking report from Newsweek, the recent Ukrainian Boeing 737 that fell to its death, killing all aboard, was likely the result of mistakenly fired Iranian anti-aircraft missiles.

“The Ukrainian flight that crashed just outside the Iranian capital of Tehran was struck by an anti-aircraft missile system, a Pentagon official, a senior U.S. intelligence official and an Iraqi intelligence official told Newsweek,” the outlet began.

“Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752, a Boeing 737–800 en route from Tehran Imam Khomeini International Airpot to Kyiv’s Boryspil International Airport, stopped transmitting data Tuesday just minutes after takeoff and not long after Iran launched missiles at military bases housing U.S. and allied forces in neighboring Iraq,” Newsweek continued. “The aircraft is believed to have been struck by a Russia-built Tor-M1 surface-to-air missile system, known to NATO as Gauntlet, the three officials told Newsweek.”

The weekly news magazine then reached its main point: “One Pentagon and one U.S senior intelligence official told Newsweek that the Pentagon’s assessment is that the incident was accidental. Iran’s anti-aircraft were likely active following the country’s missile attack, which came in response to the U.S. killing last week of Revolutionary Guard Quds Force commander Major General Qassem Soleimani, sources said.”

In total, 176 perished on the ill-fated flight. Sixty-three were Canadian nationals.

Rest - https://www.dailywire.com/news/breaking-iranian-missile-likely-shot-down-ukrainian-plane-by-mistake-report-says

Everything seems to point to an accident, happening due to circumstances of Iran's own making. Canadian leader to make some response soon. Lots are wondering why that plane took off, knowing what was going on. Indeed, one passenger had texted unease due to the conflict, prior to take off.

[Kathianne]

I can only give what must, surely, be the only decent reaction to this possible. Namely, that to do a regime such as the Iranian one ANY favours AT ALL is offensive in humanitarian terms.

Trump looked, to me, weak as hell when he gave his 'We think the Iranians have now stood down' speech. He looked subdued, and relieved that he could avoid taking them on any more (at that time).

I've said before that no sane person seeks war, seeks to cause it. BUT ... an evil regime can't be tolerated forever. Given enough time, opportunity, and little real opposition, it'll go on to do more and more harm.

I'm coming around to a brand of thinking which concludes that the only decent resolution to the problem of Iran should match the events of 2003, in Iraq. Replace the regime, see it smashed. That's now my thinking.

What further evils will we see, otherwise ? A nuclear-armed Iran ? An Iran that makes good on the old Ahmadinejad threats against Israel's very existence ?

I think what characterises Iran's regime is a contempt for human life. Where can toleration of this lead, if not to just the one ultimate outcome ?

People really don't want more war, to a large degree one can thank the President for that. Truth is, he's about as much pro-war or even interventionist as Rand Paul and Mike Lee. He ran on populism of being anti-involvement in ME, irregardless of what was happening there. Indeed, one may argue, as I have, that his choice of non-response to all Iranian provocations, including against your country, emboldened Iran. They went TOO far and he no longer could keep to that path.

He's not going to stop his basic impulses because of some folks changing their minds.

[Drummond]

Everything seems to point to an accident, happening due to circumstances of Iran's own making. Canadian leader to make some response soon. Lots are wondering why that plane took off, knowing what was going on. Indeed, one passenger had texted unease due to the conflict, prior to take off.

This accident theory seems to be the most widely believed in.

Then again ... Iran has strong links to Russia, and Ukraine and Putin's Russia aren't exactly enjoying a 'warm and internationally cooperative' association. There was a case, not so very long ago, of Russia said to be behind the shooting-down of a Ukrainian flight over its territory, unless I'm much mistaken ....

Perhaps the flight took off in the first place because missiles aimed at American forces would've been aimed at an entirely different part of the sky, and the airlines' pilots had received assurances on that (assurances doing them no good at all).

Too early to be sure of one's facts, I think. We need time to see how this pans out. In the meantime, we have Iran going into denial overdrive, claiming it's an innocent victim of 'psychological warfare' .. (!!). Which strikes me to be as desperate an attempt a defence as it is seemingly pathetic !!

[Drummond]

People really don't want more war, to a large degree one can thank the President for that. Truth is, he's about as much pro-war or even interventionist as Rand Paul and Mike Lee. He ran on populism of being anti-involvement in ME, irregardless of what was happening there. Indeed, one may argue, as I have, that his choice of non-response to all Iranian provocations, including against your country, emboldened Iran. They went TOO far and he no longer could keep to that path.

He's not going to stop his basic impulses because of some folks changing their minds.

Fair assessment, I think.

Trump, I think, has far tougher times ahead. Iran's belligerence isn't going to go away .. more will happen. There will have to come a time, I believe, when Trump will HAVE to materially act, if he's to avoid being identified as a form of paper tiger.

I think that, if he's being smart, he'll choose something effective and yet not particularly military in its nature. A strong cyber-attack would, I think, fit the bill very nicely.

It's said that Iran has its own capacity for such warfare .. even so, I don't think they can match either US or UK expert capabilities in that sphere. Unless they're completely insane, they surely have to understand how unequal such a fight would be.

[Kathianne]

This accident theory seems to be the most widely believed in.

Then again ... Iran has strong links to Russia, and Ukraine and Putin's Russia aren't exactly enjoying a 'warm and internationally cooperative' association. There was a case, not so very long ago, of Russia said to be behind the shooting-down of a Ukrainian flight over its territory, unless I'm much mistaken ....

Perhaps the flight took off in the first place because missiles aimed at American forces would've been aimed at an entirely different part of the sky, and the airlines' pilots had received assurances on that (assurances doing them no good at all).

Too early to be sure of one's facts, I think. We need time to see how this pans out. In the meantime, we have Iran going into denial overdrive, claiming it's an innocent victim of 'psychological warfare' .. (!!). Which strikes me to be as desperate an attempt a defence as it is seemingly pathetic !!

I think it's nearly proven now that a missile hit the plane. At some time I think they are going to have to turn over the black boxes.

[Drummond]

I think it's nearly proven now that a missile hit the plane. At some time I think they are going to have to turn over the black boxes.

Indeed. It's clear that a missile did hit that plane.

Iran continues to deny it, however ...

Who will make Iran give up the black boxes ? I struggle to see how they can be made to do so, if they're determined not to. I strongly suspect that they won't.

We have reports which say that the crash site is being bulldozed over ... as an evidence-supplying crash scene, it's ceasing to be one, because what Iran's doing will obliterate that site's capacity to yield clues about the crash. No doubt international investigators will eventually allowed to reach the scene, but only after it's too late to count for anything.

The Iranian regime's belligerence will continue unabated, the aim being to force everybody to follow the line they insist upon.

[Drummond]

A report I've just heard, on LBC (radio station operating from London) ... it says that Iran will, tomorrow, announce what the cause of the plane crash was.

In other words ... they're applying total control over what is to be understood to be 'true' of the incident.

No mention, or hint, given that the black box(es) will be given over to anybody.

[Kathianne]

Indeed. It's clear that a missile did hit that plane.

Iran continues to deny it, however ...

Who will make Iran give up the black boxes ? I struggle to see how they can be made to do so, if they're determined not to. I strongly suspect that they won't.

We have reports which say that the crash site is being bulldozed over ... as an evidence-supplying crash scene, it's ceasing to be one, because what Iran's doing will obliterate that site's capacity to yield clues about the crash. No doubt international investigators will eventually allowed to reach the scene, but only after it's too late to count for anything.

The Iranian regime's belligerence will continue unabated, the aim being to force everybody to follow the line they insist upon.
Here's more on the bulldozing going on.

Bottom line is that Iran is so unsure of its standing with its people, many of whom the general killed for protesting said government; that they can't just say, "We are sorry that the plane was accidentally shot down, it was a defensive move because of the attack on the general. We will make civil settlements with our apologies." It's what other countries, including the US has done when mistakes were made.

https://hotair.com/archives/ed-morrissey/2020/01/10/bad-check-iran-bulldozing-flight-752-crash-site/

[Abbey Marie]

No link, but I heard they found shrapnel at the crash site consistent with a missile or rocket.

[Drummond]

No link, but I heard they found shrapnel at the crash site consistent with a missile or rocket.

I'll continue to listen to our reports, but ours, so far, haven't offered any inkling of reported shrapnel linked to missile / rocket remains. If there is such evidence .. why the hurried bulldozing ?

Anyway, maybe more is yet to be revealed. I'll see what our media say in the coming hours.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/jackie-speier-ukraine-plane-crash-trump-105354393.html

Rep. Jackie Speier Lays Blame For Iran Passenger Jet Downing On Donald Trump
Lee Moran
HuffPostJanuary 10, 2020, 4:53 AM CST


Rep. Jackie Speier (D-Calif.) on Thursday suggested President Donald Trump was in part to blame for Iran’s suspected mistaken downing of a Ukraine International Airlines passenger plane during hostilities with the U.S.

Speier, who sits on the House Intelligence Committee, told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer she’d been briefed on the crash, which killed all 176 aboard, but was “not at liberty to say” whether Iran mistakenly believed the aircraft was a U.S. military plane. The Boeing jet crashed soon after taking off from Tehran’s airport.

“If what is being projected is true, this is yet another example of collateral damage from the actions that have been taken in a provocative way by the president of the United States,” Speier said.

She also lambasted Trump’s “continued saber-rattling,” called for the situation with Iran to be “de-escalated” and for Trump to return to the negotiating table.

Tensions flared last week following the U.S. assassination of top Iranian Gen. Qassem Soleimani. Iran responded with missile strikes on two Iraqi bases housing U.S. soldiers. No casualties were reported.

and next comes blaming Trump for that recent earthquake. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
These people truly are retarded, moronic, brain-dead , infested with TDS, and so full of hate that they are bursting at the seams.. --Tyr

[Kathianne]

Finally:

https://www.abc15.com/news/national/iran-says-it-unintentionally-shot-down-ukrainian-jetliner?fbclid=IwAR0qJLHtlgzgFXrMX9wXxIdJ2Tap2lLW JYj65wbJGZ5lwvRb7_6JxD0FTBA


Iran says it 'unintentionally' shot down Ukrainian jetliner


Posted: 8:54 PM, Jan 10, 2020
Updated: 8:57 PM, Jan 10, 2020
By: The Associated Press, Scripps National




Better:

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/ny-iran-plane-missile-20200111-xbbsir7ahvf6ldmhw2st5ccoq4-story.html

[Drummond]

Finally:

https://www.abc15.com/news/national/iran-says-it-unintentionally-shot-down-ukrainian-jetliner?fbclid=IwAR0qJLHtlgzgFXrMX9wXxIdJ2Tap2lLW JYj65wbJGZ5lwvRb7_6JxD0FTBA



Better:

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/ny-iran-plane-missile-20200111-xbbsir7ahvf6ldmhw2st5ccoq4-story.html

Yes. They've admitted it !

Listening to LBC radio, as I have been quite a lot lately, one caller to a phone-in programme there was phoning in as an Iranian who regularly spoke with people he knew in Tehran. He was asked how ordinary Iranians had reacted to the news ... the answer was, widespread shock that Iran held any responsibility for the plane crash, much less had shot a missile at it.

My thinking: I believe Tehran admitted what it had done, because it couldn't credibly do anything else. Between reports of crash-site evidence being bulldozed over, and camera shots that had circulated on social (& other) media apparently showing a missile strike, to say nothing of intelligence reports referring to satellite footage of same ... they admitted it because they could do nothing else.

I also think that this is a calculated move to try and defuse the whole motivation behind further sanctions being put on Iran. I think they hope to win brownie points that'll see America view them in a kindlier light.

My own additional thought (offered freely as a 'conspiracy theory' ?) ... considering the close association Iran has with Russia, did Russia decide that the situation could be used as a cover for deliberately 'downing' a commercial airliner ... Ukrainian ... ?

Russia used 'proxies' to down a Ukrainian plane, some time ago. Is this a second example of such an action ?

Iran recently announced it'll scale up enrichment of uranium, supposedly in reaction to Trump's assassination of its general. Russia has closely worked with Iran's nuclear industry. Could Iran have done a deal with Russia, to get their help in escalating their nuclear capabilities ?

A Qatari plane (according to an LBC report) took off from the same Iranian airport, shortly before the Ukrainian one did. Approximately half an hour earlier.

An aside: there will be a large 'Stop The War Coalition' march in Trafalgar Square (central London) this afternoon. No doubt its speeches will be replete with anti-Trump rhetoric ... and guess who'll be one of its principal speakers ?

Jeremy Corbyn. [... Who else ??]

By the way, my attempt to look at your Daily News link didn't work. I saw this message, instead ...


Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism.

[jimnyc]

"Accident" or not, of course it was on purpose! They thought it was a cruise missile and shot at it. They were wrong. Their incorrect decision cost the lives of almost 180 people. It may have been an accident that they hit the wrong target, but they shot that missile at it on purpose.

--

Did Iran Shoot Down Ukrainian Plane on Purpose? New Evidence Suggests This May Be the Case

Evidence is indicating that the Ukrainian jetliner shot down in Iran was no mistake. The Iranian regime claims it was but evidence shows the opposite.

Another Internet sleuth put together a Twitter feed that provides evidence that Iran shot down the Ukrainian jetliner this past week and that it appears to be deliberate:

Rest - https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/01/exclusive-did-iran-shoot-down-ukrainian-plane-on-purpose-new-evidence-suggests-this-may-be-the-case/

[Drummond]

It's emerged that the UK's Ambassador to Iran was arrested by Tehran police after he'd attended a protest held against the downing of the plane.

He'd already left the protest ... & went into a barber's shop for a haircut on his way home. He was then arrested - & held under arrest for three hours before being released.

Needless to say, this violates his diplomatic immunity, and so violates international law. Still .. if you're going to have the gall to shoot down a civilian aeroplane, what does one diplomat's arrest matter .. ?

[Belatedly added: reference to the detention ..]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/furor-in-iran-and-abroad-after-tehran-admits-downing-ukrainian-jetliner/ar-BBYREgM?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout


In another tense spillover from the protests, the Iranian authorities briefly seized Britain’s Tehran ambassador, Rob Macaire, for what news accounts in Iran called his “involvement in provoking suspicious acts” at a protest. Britain’s foreign secretary, Dominic Raab, denounced the seizure as a “flagrant violation of international law.”

[Drummond]

Update: apparently, our British ambassador to Iran has now been summoned to go to the Iranian foreign ministry, to explain his presence at that protest !

https://news.sky.com/story/british-ambassador-rob-macaire-denies-taking-part-in-iran-protests-11906778


Iran has summoned the UK ambassador as hardline militia members mass outside the British embassy in Tehran.

The British ambassador to Iran earlier denied taking part in anti-government demonstrations after he was held by Iranian authorities during protests over a fatal plane crash.

Iranian authorities detained Rob Macaire on Saturday on suspicion of organising, provoking and directing radical actions, but an Iranian news agency later said he had been summoned over his attendance at an "anti-government rally".

I think we're in a propaganda war.

Iran decided it had no choice but to admit that they fired a missile at that downed Ukrainian plane. Now, they're beginning to try and redress the balance, & begin to build a case that says their regime is at least as much 'being sinned against' as 'sinning itself'.

They're more interested in saving face, it seems, than taking the de-escalation route. They arrested our Ambassador, breaking international law in the process ? OK; rather than fully admit error, they choose a far more belligerent line against our Ambassador.

Perhaps they're doing to our people, what they dare not do to any American. A mark of cowardice on their part, perhaps ?