So This Is What Drummond Has Been Up To [Archive] - Debate Policy

Drummond

12-12-2019, 11:18 AM

Writing about the election and polling!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1YG001

You seem to be accusing me of some hard work ... how dare you !!! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I have been absent these past few days ... travelling again. This continues until the end of the week (I just returned v briefly home, to vote today).

Anyway ... maybe this'll be of interest .. ? Leo McKinstry, always an excellent columnist for the Express, contributed this article today. A brief excerpt below:-

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/leo-mckinstry/1216005/Jeremy-corbyn-election-2019-Labour-Party-vote

The moment of destiny has arrived. Not since the end of the Second World War has there been a more important General Election than this one. At stake is the soul of our nation. The very future of our *identity, democracy, economy and security will be decided by voters today.

Realistically there are only two possible outcomes: either a Conservative majority, or a hung Parliament that would in practice send Jeremy Corbyn and his Marxist cabal into Downing Street. The former result would be a relief, the latter a calamity. If Boris Johnson’s Conservatives win, then freedom and prosperity beckon, accelerated by the end of the Brexit stalemate that has paralysed our political system for too long. But if Corbyn emerges as Prime Minister tomorrow, then Britain will be dragged into a new Dark Age of chaos and decline, fuelled by extremist dogma.

The return of a Tory Government would mean that the country can once more come together, with our withdrawal from Europe finally settled. But the advent of a far-Left Labour Government, built on class war and the politics of envy, will drastically widen divisions in our society.

If Johnson stays in office, then Britain will remain an advanced, Western market-led democracy, where taxes are kept down, enterprise is encouraged, sovereignty is restored, British values are cherished and the United Kingdom maintained.

But a Corbyn premiership, driven by the alien creed of radical socialism, will herald the mass confiscation of wealth, the break‑up of the union, the relentless *expansion of state control and the ruination of our public finances.

Tragically, this nightmare on Downing Street is a real possibility ....

McKinstry doesn't exaggerate. Corbyn may well be the most extremist Labour leader the UK has ever seen. He MUST not be elected to power.

God help us if he is.

Kathianne

12-12-2019, 11:47 AM

You seem to be accusing me of some hard work ... how dare you !!! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I have been absent these past few days ... travelling again. This continues until the end of the week (I just returned v briefly home, to vote today).

Anyway ... maybe this'll be of interest .. ? Leo McKinstry, always an excellent columnist for the Express, contributed this article today. A brief excerpt below:-

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/leo-mckinstry/1216005/Jeremy-corbyn-election-2019-Labour-Party-vote

McKinstry doesn't exaggerate. Corbyn may well be the most extremist Labour leader the UK has ever seen. He MUST not be elected to power.

God help us if he is.
Enjoy your travels! You’ve been missed!

Kathianne

12-12-2019, 05:38 PM

Let's hope Drummond's fear of polling does not come into play with exit polls, which are usually pretty good:

https://hotair.com/archives/allahpundit/2019/12/12/wowww-uk-exit-poll-predicts-conservative-landslide-brexit-line/

Wowww: UK Exit Poll Predicts Conservative Landslide With Brexit On The Line
ALLAHPUNDITPosted at 5:23 pm on December 12, 2019

A massive victory for the Tories and Brexit if it’s accurate, and almost certainly the end of the Corbyn era for Labour. Aces all around.

To put this in perspective, the Conservatives won 317 seats in the last election in 2017. They need 326 for a majority. At the moment they have 298 seats, with Labour second at 242, which is why they’re holding an election: Parliament’s deadlocked over Brexit, with neither side able to muster the votes it needs to pass it or scrap it.

Unless there’s been a massive — massive — error in the exit polling, that’s about to change dramatically.

Seth Mandel
✔
@SethAMandel

3:01 PM - Dec 12, 2019

In an era when all Anglo-American elections seem to be close-run things, with neither side able to durably and decisively defeat the other, that number is a legit shocker. It’d be the biggest Parliamentary majority since 1987 if the exit poll is dead on. And the UK would almost certainly leave the EU as scheduled, by January 31.

Could the exit poll be wrong? Sure, but…

Nate Cohn
✔
@Nate_Cohn
How wrong would the exit poll need to be for conservatives to fall short of a majority?
Well, it would need to be the worst result since the first BBC exit poll
And fwiw they've been doing quite well recently

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELnmPYkW4AUijvh?format=png&name=small

3:06 PM - Dec 12, 2019

…apart from the crazy 61-seat miss in 1974, no exit poll has missed so badly that the Tories would be denied a majority tonight if this new exit poll misses just as badly. That is, even if it’s as far off as the 1987 poll was, missing by 38 seats, the Conservatives would still have a governing majority of 330.

A genuine political earthquake in the Anglosphere is shaping up. Stand by for updates.

Kathianne

12-12-2019, 09:29 PM

Looks like a blowout for Johnson:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ken-livingstone-says-its-the-21086946

Kathianne

12-12-2019, 09:32 PM

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/12/13/general-election-results-live-2019-boris-corbyn-tories-labour/

Boris Johnson is on course for an historic landslide victory in the 2019 general election after an exit poll predicted an 86-seat Conservative majority

The Tories are predicted to win 368 seats – 50 up on 2017 – in their best result since 1987.

On a catastrophic night for Labour, Jeremy Corbyn’s party was predicted to end the day with just 191 seats, down 71 on the last election in their worst result since 1935.

If the prediction proves to be correct, it will mean the Prime Minister can forge ahead with his plan to get Britain out of the European Union by Jan 31, with a vote on his deal possible before Christmas.

It would also mean Mr Corbyn is almost certain to announce his resignation as Labour leader today, with John McDonnell reportedly lined up as a caretaker replacement.

Mr Corbyn has now cemented his place as the least popular and least successful Labour leader in modern history, far outstripping Michael Foot’s disastrous performance in 1983. Labour was likely to be wiped out in many of its former heartlands as the Tories broke through the “red wall” in the Midlands and the North.

Gunny

12-13-2019, 08:15 PM

OAN Newsroom
UPDATED 12:52 PM PT — Friday, December 13, 2019President Trump congratulated British Prime Minister Boris Johnson on winning the country’s snap general election. This comes as far-left ideas suffered their biggest defeat in years in the U.K, paving way for a clean Brexit deal and better British-American ties.
One America’s Kristian Rouz has more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBClz3XTV6k&feature=emb_logo

This is great. Now we can see what they're going to do with the victory.

icansayit

12-13-2019, 08:22 PM

Gunny

12-13-2019, 08:51 PM

What *I* would lie to see is a conservative government elected for a specific purpose to deliver. Unlike Republicans in the US Congress. Ours talks a good game but hasn't delivered more than anemically since President Reagan.

And yeah, I'm dreaming vicariously through Brit conservatives right now :)

Drummond

12-14-2019, 05:28 PM

Looks like a blowout for Johnson:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ken-livingstone-says-its-the-21086946

In case you don't know this already: the Daily Mirror is rabidly anti-Conservative. Their front page headline on 13th December, addressing what was then known about his electoral victory, was:

'NIGHTMARE BEFORE XMAS'

If you're looking for any measure of balanced reporting, you'll not get it from the Daily Mirror.

Drummond

12-14-2019, 05:40 PM

Hope this helps all of you regain your honorable, Jolly Good Lives again.
A better reason for all of you to have a "HAPPIER NEW YEAR" too!

The British people have had a very lucky escape. We'd have gone down the political pan as a viable social and political entity had Corbyn won. All sorts of indicators pointed to it ... his massive public expenditure plans, way more than could've been managed without big IMF assistance and swingeing tax rises; wholesale seizure of companies to take them under State control; Corbyn's potential as a security risk, thanks to his friendly associations with the IRA and Hamas; his declared refusal to EVER use our nuclear deterrent under ANY circumstances; his support for the early release of convicted terrorists (the recent London Bridge terrorist was released on licence thanks to a Labour Party law passed in 2008, one that Corbyn voted for at the time) ... etc ....etc.

Of course, his stalling of Brexit, reducing Parliament itself to a dysfunctional laughing-stock in defiance of democratic mandate ... this itself says much.

Instead of his taking power, we have Boris at the helm, and his intention on Brexit has long since been clear. He, unlike Corbyn, RESPECTS the 2016 Referendum, and is doing his damndest to bring its outcome about.

Thanks to his new majority of EIGHTY ... he can now laugh at Corbyn's future attempts at vandalism.

NightTrain

12-14-2019, 05:44 PM

This whole thing has restored my faith in the UK citizens.

Wonderful bit of work. Congratulations, Drummond!

Gunny

12-14-2019, 05:49 PM

This whole thing has restored my faith in the UK citizens.

Wonderful bit of work. Congratulations, Drummond!Not just the Brits ... gives us a bit of hope as well. And I'm not talking about Trump winning reelection. We need Congress back. THAT is what I'm hoping for. Johnson didn't just win. He gained a majority to carry out his agenda.

Drummond

12-14-2019, 05:57 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBClz3XTV6k&feature=emb_logo

This is great. Now we can see what they're going to do with the victory.

Victories this decisive go back to the mammoth landslide-days of Margaret Thatcher. We've not seen their like since she left Office ... until now !

The Labour Party's defeat has been historically bad.

Margaret won for the Conservatives in 1979 with a landslide.

Michael Foot, the then-Labour leader, opposed her in the 1983 election. He lost very badly .. thanks to his offering at the time of a Left wing programme were he to be elected. His Left wing manifesto was dubbed at the time 'the longest suicide note in history'.

Margaret won another landslide in 1983, and again in 1987. Labour was firmly marginalised in politics at that time, viewed as an extremist irrelevance.

CORBYN'S DEFEAT REDUCES LABOUR'S MP PRESENCE IN THE COMMONS TO LOWER LEVELS THAN MICHAEL FOOT HAD. Indeed, Labour is more powerless now than at any time since the mid-1930's.

YET ... Corbyn has yet to admit any personal responsibility for his Party's defeat !! More ... he isn't taking the usual route of quitting as Labour leader, allowing a caretaker Leader to take his place until a replacement is elected. He's vowed to continue on until the elected leader is in place.

Corbyn's tainted goods, for all sorts of reasons .. his extremist agenda, his past friendships with terrorists, his wish to go in for massive Nationalisation programs to attain State-run control for all the basics for life, all that. His is the long-failed Socialism we suffered in the 1960's and 1970's. At the time, it nearly ruined us.

But Corbyn doesn't care about lessons from history. He'll never learn. His staying Leader is evidence of that.

Power is everything to the likes of him.

No, we've had a lucky escape. For everyone's sake, the sooner Corbyn is consigned to political oblivion, the better.

Gunny

12-14-2019, 06:11 PM

Victories this decisive go back to the mammoth landslide-days of Margaret Thatcher. We've not seen their like since she left Office ... until now !

The Labour Party's defeat has been historically bad.

Margaret won for the Conservatives in 1979 with a landslide.

Michael Foot, the then-Labour leader, opposed her in the 1983 election. He lost very badly .. thanks to his offering at the time of a Left wing programme were he to be elected. His Left wing manifesto was dubbed at the time 'the longest suicide note in history'.

Margaret won another landslide in 1983, and again in 1987. Labour was firmly marginalised in politics at that time, viewed as an extremist irrelevance.

CORBYN'S DEFEAT REDUCES LABOUR'S MP PRESENCE IN THE COMMONS TO LOWER LEVELS THAN MICHAEL FOOT HAD. Indeed, Labour is more powerless now than at any time since the mid-1930's.

YET ... Corbyn has yet to admit any personal responsibility for his Party's defeat !! More ... he isn't taking the usual route of quitting as Labour leader, allowing a caretaker Leader to take his place until a replacement is elected. He's vowed to continue on until the elected leader is in place.

Corbyn's tainted goods, for all sorts of reasons .. his extremist agenda, his past friendships with terrorists, his wish to go in for massive Nationalisation programs to attain State-run control for all the basics for life, all that. His is the long-failed Socialism we suffered in the 1960's and 1970's. At the time, it nearly ruined us.

But Corbyn doesn't care about lessons from history. He'll never learn. His staying Leader is evidence of that.

Power is everything to the likes of him.

No, we've had a lucky escape. For everyone's sake, the sooner Corbyn is consigned to political oblivion, the better.It IS very arrogant of him to not step down as I noted the defeated leader of the conservative party in one of the Scottish districts (?) did.

But isn't that what the left is all about? Not accepting responsibility in defeat. Not facing the fact the people don't want them. Must be something wrong with the people OR "they just don't understand":rolleyes:

So he's going to remain in charge of ... :laugh:

Drummond

12-14-2019, 06:15 PM

This whole thing has restored my faith in the UK citizens.

Wonderful bit of work. Congratulations, Drummond!

Truth be told, I think everyone's amazed at the extent of the victory ! I was quietly confident Boris would win, but with a slim majority. Some were predicting a hung Parliament virtually until election day.

No. When the election day dawned, voters stood by their ballot papers, and just felt that to vote Labour was something they couldn't bring themselves to do.

The media has done something to investigate what was in voters' minds at the time. Interviews with them consistently had something in common ... true even of the most formerly loyal Labour voters. Fact was that precious few people could bring themselves to vote for Jeremy Corbyn.

He was THAT bad a prospect !!

We've had electoral seats go to the Conservatives that have never voted Conservative in generations. Leigh, Lancs; Blyth; Wrexham ... areas such as those have never voted for Conservative MP's for, literally, the better part of an entire century. But, they DID vote Conservative this time, in part because Corbyn was a totally repellent prospect for them to envisage as our future PM.

Of course, Brexit played its part. Labour was seen to have betrayed constituencies of theirs where the vote was to Leave the EU. Labour lost MP's who'd defied their own Constituencies and failed to fight for a completed Brexit.

Labour's enjoyed a period of inflicting paralysis on Parliament, to frustrate Brexit. They can no longer do so. They can no longer wield meaningful political power of any description, in fact.

The Voting Public Has Spoken, held Labour to account for its vandalistic arrogance. The price: the threat of being consigned to irrelevence for a generation or more.

They had it coming !!! :dance::dance::dance:

Gunny

12-14-2019, 06:20 PM

Truth be told, I think everyone's amazed at the extent of the victory ! I was quietly confident Boris would win, but with a slim majority. Some were predicting a hung Parliament virtually until election day.

No. When the election day dawned, voters stood by their ballot papers, and just felt that to vote Labour was something they couldn't bring themselves to do.

The media has done something to investigate what was in voters' minds at the time. Interviews with them consistently had something in common ... true even of the most formerly loyal Labour voters. Fact was that precious few people could bring themselves to vote for Jeremy Corbyn.

He was THAT bad a prospect !!

We've had electoral seats go to the Conservatives that have never voted Conservative in generations. Leigh, Lancs; Blyth; Wrexham ... areas such as those have never voted for Conservative MP's for, literally, the better part of an entire century. But, they DID vote Conservative this time, in part because Corbyn was a totally repellent prospect for them to envisage as our future PM.

Of course, Brexit played its part. Labour was seen to have betrayed constituencies of theirs where the vote was to Leave the EU. Labour lost MP's who'd defied their own Constituencies and failed to fight for a completed Brexit.

Labour's enjoyed a period of inflicting paralysis on Parliament, to frustrate Brexit. They can no longer do so. They can no longer wield meaningful political power of any description, in fact.

The Voting Public Has Spoken, held Labour to account for its vandalistic arrogance. The price: the threat of being consigned to irrelevence for a generation or more.

They had it coming !!! :dance::dance::dance:Corbyn sounds like George McGovern in the US in 72. My grandfather, a staunch Roosevelt Dem, said he just couldn't vote for the man (McGovern). He was THAT bad. I'm going off memory but I think he carried only 2 states.

Drummond

12-14-2019, 06:27 PM

It IS very arrogant of him to not step down as I noted the defeated leader of the conservative party in one of the Scottish districts (?) did.

But isn't that what the left is all about? Not accepting responsibility in defeat. Not facing the fact the people don't want them. Must be something wrong with the people OR "they just don't understand":rolleyes:

So he's going to remain in charge of ... :laugh:

The trouble with Socialism is that it's a doctrine. Those representing it, and wanting to push it on others, have an indoctrinated mindset .. and that closed-mindedness cripples their objectivity.

To what extent Corbyn is a deliberate facilitator, and to what extent he himself is a product of indoctrination ... I don't know. But in Corbyn's case, he has a great thirst for power. Mix that with his myopic zeal to inflict his Utopianist mindset, and you've got someone who can't let go of either. Corbyn can't easily give up on whatever power he feels he can get, and he can't, EVER, see that his beliefs and ambitions are poison.

We in the UK have had a taste of hardline Socialism already, in times past. We KNOW what it brings, because we've seen it all unfold, seen its destruction. But, Corbyn is blind to the lessons of history.

To him, what he thinks is right, MUST BE, for no other reason than because he says so.

Well ... he's set on a course leading to oblivion. Better him, than an entire country.

Kathianne

12-14-2019, 08:42 PM

In case you don't know this already: the Daily Mirror is rabidly anti-Conservative. Their front page headline on 13th December, addressing what was then known about his electoral victory, was:

'NIGHTMARE BEFORE XMAS'

If you're looking for any measure of balanced reporting, you'll not get it from the Daily Mirror.
That is when you KNOW they were trounced! The opposition has no recourse but to admit it! Congrats!

Drummond

12-14-2019, 11:07 PM

That is when you KNOW they were trounced! The opposition has no recourse but to admit it! Congrats!

Many thanks for your congrats !

I wish that Corbyn would make a statement admitting full culpability for the crushing defeat he and his Party have taken. He's done nothing of the sort, though. We get from him that 'a period of reflection' is called for, as if they don't know what their problem has been, and need time to work it out ...

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

There was one tactic which was employed which shows that Labour was well aware of its shabbiness.

Labour, after initially having given their support for the triggering of Article 50 (the means by which Brexit negotiations commenced), reneged on their supposed intention to see it through. 'Officially', they would support Brexit if it included a good deal. But, even though they absolutely insisted that we CANNOT leave the EU minus a deal ... they then proceeded to block anything in sight.

Thus, we had our Commons deadlock, because Labour blocked any & all progress to achieving Brexit.

They had to know that they were defying the voting public by doing this. Which is why, once the electioneering commenced, Labour absolutely refused to spend any more time mentioning Brexit than they had to. They'd talk about a great deal else ... just, not Brexit. BECAUSE IF THEY DID, THEY'D BE INVITING EXAMINATION OF THEIR UNDEMOCRATIC BEHAVIOUR.

They weren't interested in being democratically accountable, AND, tried to get away with having that considered.

Boris, by contrast, mentioned Brexit whenever he could.

I think our voting Public needed to teach Labour a lesson about all that, which is why even their voting heartlands (many pro-Brexit) turned away from them, with cities voting for Conservatives for the first time in living memory !!

All this is completely obvious. Labour need no 'reflection period' to know any / all of this. BUT ... they need to act as though their behaviour, their tactics, had never happened.

So, they continue to act dishonestly and disreputably. And, they expect us all to just accept it.

Kathianne

12-14-2019, 11:17 PM

Many thanks for your congrats !

I wish that Corbyn would make a statement admitting full culpability for the crushing defeat he and his Party have taken. He's done nothing of the sort, though. We get from him that 'a period of reflection' is called for, as if they don't know what their problem has been, and need time to work it out ...

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

There was one tactic which was employed which shows that Labour was well aware of its shabbiness.

Labour, after initially having given their support for the triggering of Article 50 (the means by which Brexit negotiations commenced), reneged on their supposed intention to see it through. 'Officially', they would support Brexit if it included a good deal. But, even though they absolutely insisted that we CANNOT leave the EU minus a deal ... they then proceeded to block anything in sight.

Thus, we had our Commons deadlock, because Labour blocked any & all progress to achieving Brexit.

They had to know that they were defying the voting public by doing this. Which is why, once the electioneering commenced, Labour absolutely refused to spend any more time mentioning Brexit than they had to. They'd talk about a great deal else ... just, not Brexit. BECAUSE IF THEY DID, THEY'D BE INVITING EXAMINATION OF THEIR UNDEMOCRATIC BEHAVIOUR.

They weren't interested in being democratically accountable, AND, tried to get away with having that considered.

Boris, by contrast, mentioned Brexit whenever he could.

I think our voting Public needed to teach Labour a lesson about all that, which is why even their voting heartlands (many pro-Brexit) turned away from them, with cities voting for Conservatives for the first time in living memory !!

All this is completely obvious. Labour need no 'reflection period' to know any / all of this. BUT ... they need to act as though their behaviour, their tactics, had never happened.

So, they continue to act dishonestly and disreputably. And, they expect us all to just accept it.
I just started reading, Animal Farm, today for about the 20th time. Those who ignore the 'will of the people,' are like the pigs that took over. They got theirs. ;)

Kathianne

12-17-2019, 09:41 AM

Seems that Drummond would enjoy this:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/boris-johnsons-revolution

Kathianne

12-17-2019, 09:47 AM

and this:

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/15/boris-johnson-threatens-bbc-with-two-pronged-attack

Drummond

12-17-2019, 12:39 PM

Seems that Drummond would enjoy this:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/boris-johnsons-revolution

Yep. This is an excellent article.

One 'aside' point:

... Cummings, who has often voiced his contempt for Conservative MPs, civil servants, and all of SW1 (the postal code for Parliament and the whole Westminster village) ...

True enough. But until only a handful of years ago, the SW1 postcode also included the Office for National Statistics, as SW1 doesn't just include Westminster, but Pimlico as well. Taking the statement literally, Cummings would also have to be showing contempt for THE leading authority the UK has in analysing and disseminating statistical data !

Drummond

12-17-2019, 01:08 PM

and this:

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/15/boris-johnson-threatens-bbc-with-two-pronged-attack

Not too bad, this, though I see a couple of low-key barbs against Boris are included (.. well, that IS the Guardian, after all).

Boris ducked a BBC with Andrew Neil .. yes. But Neil is an especially aggressive interviewer, and he, along with others such as Emily Maitlis, habitually interview Conservative politicians without being interested in listening to the answer to their questions, or even wanting them to be heard.

It is indeed true that not paying your TV licence fee, here in the UK, is actually a criminal offence. You in the US can choose whether you pay any fee to watch the BBC's output. Brits don't have that luxury. We HAVE to pay them, via the licence fee, or receive a criminal record if we refuse to.

Boris is, understandably, going to review all that.

Emily Maitlis has a habit of interrupting interviewees who express political opinions which she, personally, objects to. She can get rather combative with views not to her liking. I don't know how this compares to a typical US television interviewer ... still, also as something of an aside, here's a video of Maitlis being increasingly combative against Hungary's foreign minister (and 'insulting', as he himself says at one point) on the subject of Hungary's right to control its immigration as IT sees fit !! .. :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8itF62yIJg&feature=youtu.be

That Foreign Minister spoke good commonsense, & I'm sure that many here would have complete sympathy and agreement with the viewpoint he expresses (check out the video, see for yourself !). What he got in response was combative, insulting and a highly challenging 'PC' interview from the BBC's Maitlis .....

Nice to know that our licence fees are being spent so 'well' .....