too bad House Intel Committee Democrats have focused on overthrowing President Trump

[LongTermGuy]

(https://twitter.com/marklevinshow)https://assets.realclear.com/images/48/480909.jpg

"Too bad House Intel Committee Democrats have focused on overthrowing President Trump rather than the grave threat from the modern axis of evil"

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https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1199675048010891264/JY73FCAU?format=jpg&name=small

`Iran, Russia, China to Hold Joint Wargames in ‘Message to the World’

Iran, China, and Russia will hold in the coming weeks their first-ever joint war drills, which leaders say are meant to send a "message to the world" about increased military cooperation between the rogue countries.
The commander of Iran's navy, Rear Admiral Hossein Khanzadi, said Wednesday that the Islamic Republic will team up with Moscow and Beijing within the next month to hold the mass war drills.`

More!!!
https://freebeacon.com/national-security/iran-russia-china-to-hold-joint-wargames-in-message-to-the-world/

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Well that's rather ominous, but still, Iran's military is a joke, Texas has a larger economy than Russia, and China has lost trillions since Trump imposed tariffs on them. In fact, they've all lost money since Trump took office. Maybe this little stunt by them is meant to send America a message?

Well, we still have NATO... hopefully.

[Gunny]

Well that's rather ominous, but still, Iran's military is a joke, Texas has a larger economy than Russia, and China has lost trillions since Trump imposed tariffs on them. In fact, they've all lost money since Trump took office. Maybe this little stunt by them is meant to send America a message?

Well, we still have NATO... hopefully.None of those militaries are a joke and combined quite formidable. We do not even come close to having the numbers to match up. Technology is great but it takes boots on the ground to defeat an enemy's will to resist and occupy territory.

[Kathianne]

I’ve been saying they are an alliance for a few years. Someone forgot to include Turkey.

[Kathianne]

Weird that the President keeps saying how he likes/admired city and Putin.

[Gunny]

I’ve been saying they are an alliance for a few years. Someone forgot to include Turkey.I think "alliance" is a pretty strong term. It may come to that and I'm surprised it hasn't. We've pushed all 3 and we've pushed them hard.

My guess is Putin is in a "Why not?" mode. Not going to hurt him and he may get something out of it. Iran and China just want to send us a message.

I think if Turkey participates it can be kicked out of NATO outright. Not sure on that, but I doubt there's room in a mutual defense alliance for military exercises with the country (Russia) that is NATOs prime reason for existing.

If Putin is such a "bad guy", what's he doing that WE haven't? Besides sitting back and laughing at us while we self-destruct? I can see why Trump admires him. Putin gets to do a lot of what Trump would like to. Namely, whatever the Hell he wants.

IMO, monitor and otherwise ignore. We know that's not going to happen between the leftwingnut MSM and Trump's twitter account :laugh:

[Kathianne]

I think "alliance" is a pretty strong term. It may come to that and I'm surprised it hasn't. We've pushed all 3 and we've pushed them hard.

My guess is Putin is in a "Why not?" mode. Not going to hurt him and he may get something out of it. Iran and China just want to send us a message.

I think if Turkey participates it can be kicked out of NATO outright. Not sure on that, but I doubt there's room in a mutual defense alliance for military exercises with the country (Russia) that is NATOs prime reason for existing.

If Putin is such a "bad guy", what's he doing that WE haven't? Besides sitting back and laughing at us while we self-destruct? I can see why Trump admires him. Putin gets to do a lot of what Trump would like to. Namely, whatever the Hell he wants.

IMO, monitor and otherwise ignore. We know that's not going to happen between the leftwingnut MSM and Trump's twitter account :laugh:
Putin especially, but Xi too would like to put US on it’s heels for at least.awhile. Iran just hates the great Satan, perhaps the growing Islamic Turkey too.

They are allies against us, whatever’s else they may or may not have in common.

[Gunny]

Putin especially, but Xi too would like to put US on it’s heels for at least.awhile. Iran just hates the great Satan, perhaps the growing Islamic Turkey too.

They are allies against us, whatever’s else they may or may not have in common."Allies" in a common enemy sense. I don't think Putin nor Xi are ready to put anything in writing and certainly not with Iran. We are hitting all three countries' economies hard.

I'd bet this is Iran's idea, and Xi and Putin are okay with flexing some muscle for a reaction. It certainly can't hurt them. But an overreaction by us, and by what means, would definitely help them intel-wise. We can't afford a bluff. That's why I say we shouldn't put ourselves in the position of having to back a bluff by just keeping our mouths shut.

[Kathianne]

"Allies" in a common enemy sense. I don't think Putin nor Xi are ready to put anything in writing and certainly not with Iran. We are hitting all three countries' economies hard.

I'd bet this is Iran's idea, and Xi and Putin are okay with flexing some muscle for a reaction. It certainly can't hurt them. But an overreaction by us, and by what means, would definitely help them intel-wise. We can't afford a bluff. That's why I say we shouldn't put ourselves in the position of having to back a bluff by just keeping our mouths shut.
Russia and China regarding both Iran and No. Korea have been at this quite awhile, it's not new. Iran becoming something of a player, rather than just a pawn is still up for grabs. Turkey has clout for Russia at the least-both as NATO member and regarding its military.

[LongTermGuy]

Weird that the President keeps saying how he likes/admired city and Putin.


Nothing "weird" ...just smart....what do you expect...insults and hate...? Just Politics...most know whats going on...

[Gunny]

Russia and China regarding both Iran and No. Korea have been at this quite awhile, it's not new. Iran becoming something of a player, rather than just a pawn is still up for grabs. Turkey has clout for Russia at the least-both as NATO member and regarding its military.In other words, the only "news" here is Iran is hitching onto the same old China-Russia war games.

Turkey has been introduced by you. Yes they suck and in practice are no ally and more of an enemy. On paper, Turkey is a NATO member in "good standing", has a vote, and do far done nothing to change that minus it trying to strongarm NATO into declaring the YPG "terrorists" which is NA to the war games situation. Yet, anyway. Who knows with Erdogan?

[Kathianne]

In other words, the only "news" here is Iran is hitching onto the same old China-Russia war games.

Turkey has been introduced by you. Yes they suck and in practice are no ally and more of an enemy. On paper, Turkey is a NATO member in "good standing", has a vote, and do far done nothing to change that minus it trying to strongarm NATO into declaring the YPG "terrorists" which is NA to the war games situation. Yet, anyway. Who knows with Erdogan?
Weird, but I kinda sorta thought the reason for NATO was to protect against USSR? Been a long time, memory could be playing tricks. Not. The game Turkey has been playing, with US winking and nodding, should be enough to get Turkey the boot. But then again, Erdogan is a stand up guy, right?

We ignore what the communists and Islamacists are doing, especially any acts in concert, at our own peril.

[Gunny]

Weird, but I kinda sorta thought the reason for NATO was to protect against USSR? Been a long time, memory could be playing tricks. Not. The game Turkey has been playing, with US winking and nodding, should be enough to get Turkey the boot. But then again, Erdogan is a stand up guy, right?

We ignore what the communists and Islamacists are doing, especially any acts in concert, at our own peril.The biggest problem here is WE are not making the decisions. Turkey WAS a very welcome asset during the Cold War as we had listening posts as close to Russia as we could get them. Then came AWCS. My father was stationed in Turkey, Greece, and Keflavik, Iceland at those listening posts. It was a loop that ended in Miami, FL, because they also had listening posts all over S FL because of Cuba. We were stationed at both NAS Key West and Homestead AFB in Miami.

Other than convenience, Turkey is no longer required as an "ally" because I am sure any REAL war with Russia that includes a land war will mean rolling through Turkey whether they like it or not. At which point and time, Turkey will decide whose side its on based on who's winning. That's how they roll.

Turkey is another Iraq. Military looks good on paper, but without aid from one side or the other, they'd just get steamrolled.

The purpose for NATO was to defend Europe against an invasion by the USSR. I don't see a point to NATO as it has become overcome by father time and technology. Mutual defense treaties? Sure. Ones that mirror CURRENT situation to include political climate.

Remember, the size and scale of WWI was a direct result of antiquated mutual defense treaties. That's where I see Turkey. Be a shame if Russia invaded, but then, who cares? Turkey needs to get off the fence or they need to be gone, IMO. No more economic aid, rent for the one remaining USAF base we have there, military aid, dual-use equipment -- nothing.

Turkey would even bee worth something if it held to it's secular, state-first beliefs. As long as Erdogan keeps inching the country closer to Islam, Turkey's just another raghead country to me.

[Kathianne]

The biggest problem here is WE are not making the decisions. Turkey WAS a very welcome asset during the Cold War as we had listening posts as close to Russia as we could get them. Then came AWCS. My father was stationed in Turkey, Greece, and Keflavik, Iceland at those listening posts. It was a loop that ended in Miami, FL, because they also had listening posts all over S FL because of Cuba. We were stationed at both NAS Key West and Homestead AFB in Miami.

Other than convenience, Turkey is no longer required as an "ally" because I am sure any REAL war with Russia that includes a land war will mean rolling through Turkey whether they like it or not. At which point and time, Turkey will decide whose side its on based on who's winning. That's how they roll.

Turkey is another Iraq. Military looks good on paper, but without aid from one side or the other, they'd just get steamrolled.

The purpose for NATO was to defend Europe against an invasion by the USSR. I don't see a point to NATO as it has become overcome by father time and technology. Mutual defense treaties? Sure. Ones that mirror CURRENT situation to include political climate.

Remember, the size and scale of WWI was a direct result of antiquated mutual defense treaties. That's where I see Turkey. Be a shame if Russia invaded, but then, who cares? Turkey needs to get off the fence or they need to be gone, IMO. No more economic aid, rent for the one remaining USAF base we have there, military aid, dual-use equipment -- nothing.

Turkey would even bee worth something if it held to it's secular, state-first beliefs. As long as Erdogan keeps inching the country closer to Islam, Turkey's just another raghead country to me.
The Cold War is dead, long live the neo version.

In the long run, your assessment of Turkish power is correct, which will not stop the issues they currently thrust upon the real politic today.

Powers are shifting and realigning, it’s been happening for over a decade.

Fighting the last war-9/11 won’t do.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

None of those militaries are a joke and combined quite formidable. We do not even come close to having the numbers to match up. Technology is great but it takes boots on the ground to defeat an enemy's will to resist and occupy territory.
Iran's military, compared to our's, is a joke, is what I should have said.

I should have also said I meant China, Russia and Iran against NATO. I think NATO is more than a match for them.

I don't think any of the major powers will ever defeat and occupy another major nation through war ever again on earth. We have the threat of mutual destruction. There wouldn't be any winner or occupying to be done when there wouldn't be anything left. In fact, everyone earth will be dead sooner or later, even the animals, because if a nuclear war is unleashed, and it would be before there was any invasion and occupying, the radioactive cloud that would circle the earth would kill everyone and everything. Our PLANET would be finished, probably for good. Maybe we'd deserve it. Seems all mankind has ever done is kill each other since the dawn of time.

[Gunny]

The Cold War is dead, long live the neo version.

In the long run, your assessment of Turkish power is correct, which will not stop the issues they currently thrust upon the real politic today.

Powers are shifting and realigning, it’s been happening for over a decade.

Fighting the last war-9/11 won’t do.The "Cold War" was just another name for a state of perpetual culture war that has existed since forever. I don't know what they call "now", but it probably is inaccurate.

We have been preparing for the last war since the first war we fought. We've gotten out asses kicked at the beginning of each one. Takes us about 2 years to industrialize. I can't even see that happening nor support for a war like WWII. Look at the two ragheads in Congress now. Open sympathizers with radical Islam.

On top of that, you want them to think NOW instead of reacting when they get slammed in the butt. Not asking for much, are you?:laugh:

[Kathianne]

Russia and China regarding both Iran and No. Korea have been at this quite awhile, it's not new. Iran becoming something of a player, rather than just a pawn is still up for grabs. Turkey has clout for Russia at the least-both as NATO member and regarding its military.

Iran may well end up as Trump's win or not.

However, this is beyond troubling with 'friends' and 'great guys' like these:

https://hotair.com/archives/jazz-shaw/2019/12/17/go-china-russia-look-lifting-sanctions-north-korea/


Here We Go. China, Russia Look To Lifting Sanctions On North Korea
JAZZ SHAWPosted at 9:21 am on December 17, 2019

While most everyone in America is obsessing over the impeachment follies, the situation on the Korean peninsula has gone from bad to worse, at least in terms of the goals of the United States and the west. Russia and China have prepared a UN resolution that would lift many sanctions on North Korea. The stated goal is to “enhance the livelihood of the civilian population.” But as admirable as such a goal might be, it would effectively take the handcuffs off of Kim Jong-un, leaving America and her allies nothing to go on but Kim’s promises to be a better actor on the world stage. And history has shown us repeatedly what his promises are worth. (Reuters)


China and Russia proposed a draft U.N. Security Council resolution on Monday, seen by Reuters, that would terminate some sanctions on North Korea “with the intent of enhancing the livelihood of the civilian population.”

The draft also welcomes “the continuation of the dialogue between the United States and the DPRK at all levels, aimed at establishing new US-DPRK relations, building mutual confidence and joining efforts to build a lasting and stable peace on the Korean Peninsula in a staged and synchronized manner.”


...

[Kathianne]

Alas, the other shoe:

https://m.dw.com/en/turkeys-erdogan-threatens-to-close-strategic-bases-to-us-military/a-51686229

[Gunny]

Alas, the other shoe:

https://m.dw.com/en/turkeys-erdogan-threatens-to-close-strategic-bases-to-us-military/a-51686229Depends on how you want to look at it, I guess. Minus the billowing smoke, Erdogan appears to be painting himself into a corner by his own hand. He's putting himself in a position to have to choose a side.

I myself think he needs to be tested for dementia.

[STTAB]

Depends on how you want to look at it, I guess. Minus the billowing smoke, Erdogan appears to be painting himself into a corner by his own hand. He's putting himself in a position to have to choose a side.

I myself think he needs to be tested for dementia.

I think you meant to say needs to be lined up against a wall and be summarily executed.

[Gunny]

I think you meant to say needs to be lined up against a wall and be summarily executed.That would depend. We know it ain't Abraham Lincoln waiting in the wings to take over. I've heard it said it is rather unhealthy around Erdogan to wield too much power/influence or be too popular.

Sound like Saddam Hussein and Iraq? I'd have to see who or what is going to seize power in the event of his sudden and who gives a sh*t demise. There are a lot of different factions in Turkey, simply for it's location on the map. Without that central, alleged "secular" power and the army backing it, it might be better off leaving him where he is.

Trump doesn't really have to say much of anything. I'd tell Turkey either his missile system specifically designed to target NATO/UN forces perceived or real vulnerabilities had to go of he did. Then I would tell the weak-kneed sisters in NATO they either vote Turkey out of the club or I go.

No way it happens that way, but I like it and it's simple enough :)