View Full Version : Muslim ambassadors: 'Sweden needs to change its laws'
stephanie
09-07-2007, 08:38 AM
coming to our shores soon...
SNIP:
Published: 6th September 2007 17:19 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/8412/
Ambassadors from Muslim countries have indicated that they intend to present the Swedish prime minister with a list of demands when they meet for talks on Friday.
Fredrik Reinfeldt invited the ambassadors from 20 Muslim countries to government offices on Friday following a wave of protests from Muslim countries after the publication of a caricature of Muhammad in local newspaper Nerikes Allehanda.
Reinfeldt's press secretary Oscar Hållén was unable to say which countries had confirmed their attendance.
Egyptian ambassador Mohamed Sotouhi told news agency TT that he and a group of fellow ambassadors had agreed on a list of measures Sweden needed to take if it was to secure a long-term solution to the Muhammad cartoon controversy.
According to Sotouhi, "comprehensive measures" were required if Sweden was to prevent some "amateur artist" from reawakening tensions every other month.
"We want to see action, not just nice words. We have to push for a change in the law," he said.
"Muslims need legal protection against the desecration of the Prophet Muhammad, maybe something similar to the protection enjoyed by Jews and homosexuals."
While praising the "very constructive steps" taken by Fredrik Reinfeldt, the Egyptian ambassador said that Sweden had much work left to do.
"In the long term the school curriculum has to convince pupils that if they want to express their opinion they should do so in such a way that it doesn't cause offence or hurt. This should also be part of journalism training," said Sotouhi.
"A permanent parliamentary committee also needs to be established to tackle islamophobia," he added.
The ambassador urged Reinfeldt to strive towards "reaching a balance between freedom of speech and taking responsibility to avoid offending Muslims or other religious groups in this society".
the rest of this article and lots of comments at the site..
Monkeybone
09-07-2007, 10:02 AM
yah, forget about saying what you want and everything. just say stuff that appeals to everyone (specailly a group that kills and riots when it something that they don't like) and makes for fuzzy warm feelings.
theHawk
09-07-2007, 10:23 AM
More proof that Islam and freedom of speech just don't mix.
Hey muslims, why don't you change Islamic law to allow equality with non muslims. Hey, why don't you allow christians to preach their faith openly in saudi arabia and other muslim lands....
:boohoo:
hjmick
09-07-2007, 03:11 PM
Hey muslims, why don't you change Islamic law to allow equality with non muslims. Hey, why don't you allow christians to preach their faith openly in saudi arabia and other muslim lands....
:boohoo:
Umm...Because they believe that Islam is the only true religion? That Sharia is the only true law?
Umm...Because they believe that Islam is the only true religion? That Sharia is the only true law?
Ok, then why do they wail and whine when other believers of other "faiths" want to keep their laws? Sure, it is because they see things from only their angle, but it astounds me how they do not see the hypocrisy of it. I have been to mooselem websites and they absolutely defend to the teeth their right to keep non muslims from spreading their "faith" but yet have absolutely no idea why the west is suspect of them and why the west does not want to grant them the same islamic rights they have in their """""land"""""
While they believe 1 and 2, they also believe in "respecting" non islamic law. Allegedly. For when in non islamic lands they are not allowed to force islamic law on non muslims. FACT.
They are complainers by nature. And losers by destiny.
hjmick
09-07-2007, 04:18 PM
Ok, then why do they wail and whine when other believers of other "faiths" want to keep their laws? Sure, it is because they see things from only their angle, but it astounds me how they do not see the hypocrisy of it. I have been to mooselem websites and they absolutely defend to the teeth their right to keep non muslims from spreading their "faith" but yet have absolutely no idea why the west is suspect of them and why the west does not want to grant them the same islamic rights they have in their """""land"""""
While they believe 1 and 2, they also believe in "respecting" non islamic law. Allegedly. For when in non islamic lands they are not allowed to force islamic law on non muslims. FACT.
They are complainers by nature. And losers by destiny.
While I do not purport to be a scholar of all things Muslim (though I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night...LOL), the reading I have done would lead me to believe that, for the fundamentalists, the claim of respecting non Islamic law is lip service at best. From the reading I've done, the primary goal of the fundamentalist Muslims is to spread Islam world wide and have Sharia rule.
actsnoblemartin
09-07-2007, 04:30 PM
I agree with 100000000%, the muslim countries are the biggest intolerant hypocrites, and need to stop whining, if they dont like it, dont live in sweden, otherwise, shut your mouth, if you cant behave in dignified mannor.
Riots are the last refuge of a madmen
Hey muslims, why don't you change Islamic law to allow equality with non muslims. Hey, why don't you allow christians to preach their faith openly in saudi arabia and other muslim lands....
:boohoo:
jafar00
09-08-2007, 06:33 AM
if they dont like it, dont live in sweden,
At last you post a phrase I can agree with. Islam even instructs Muslims that if they can't abide by the laws of the country they are living in, they should move to a country where they can.
PostmodernProphet
09-08-2007, 07:00 AM
they could at least offer a trade off....Sweden changes it's laws to protect Mohammad, they change their laws to protect the Swedish Bikini Team
Gunny
09-09-2007, 07:56 PM
coming to our shores soon...
SNIP:
Published: 6th September 2007 17:19 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/8412/
Ambassadors from Muslim countries have indicated that they intend to present the Swedish prime minister with a list of demands when they meet for talks on Friday.
Fredrik Reinfeldt invited the ambassadors from 20 Muslim countries to government offices on Friday following a wave of protests from Muslim countries after the publication of a caricature of Muhammad in local newspaper Nerikes Allehanda.
Reinfeldt's press secretary Oscar Hållén was unable to say which countries had confirmed their attendance.
Egyptian ambassador Mohamed Sotouhi told news agency TT that he and a group of fellow ambassadors had agreed on a list of measures Sweden needed to take if it was to secure a long-term solution to the Muhammad cartoon controversy.
According to Sotouhi, "comprehensive measures" were required if Sweden was to prevent some "amateur artist" from reawakening tensions every other month.
"We want to see action, not just nice words. We have to push for a change in the law," he said.
"Muslims need legal protection against the desecration of the Prophet Muhammad, maybe something similar to the protection enjoyed by Jews and homosexuals."
While praising the "very constructive steps" taken by Fredrik Reinfeldt, the Egyptian ambassador said that Sweden had much work left to do.
"In the long term the school curriculum has to convince pupils that if they want to express their opinion they should do so in such a way that it doesn't cause offence or hurt. This should also be part of journalism training," said Sotouhi.
"A permanent parliamentary committee also needs to be established to tackle islamophobia," he added.
The ambassador urged Reinfeldt to strive towards "reaching a balance between freedom of speech and taking responsibility to avoid offending Muslims or other religious groups in this society".
the rest of this article and lots of comments at the site..
What a bunch of bull. If that Swedish ambassador had any balls he'd tell 'em not to bother coming.
What a bunch of bull. If that Swedish ambassador had any balls he'd tell 'em not to bother coming.
Why is that? An ambassador is a DIPLOMAT and are there to help facillitate COMMUNICATION....you do remember what such a thing is right? Or were you never familiar with such concepts.
Sweden isnt going to change any of its laws to accomodate them but there is no reason to be rude and not have any dialog. Sweden dosent hesitate to ask nations to change their laws regarding gender equality and human rights. Everyone has a RIGHT TO ASK, that dosent imply that the request will be granted...and I assure you it wont. They arent about to make any laws saying you cant critisize muslims or their religious figures.
The laws they tried to refer that protect jews and gays are about hate speech and muslims are already protected under that same law. The hate speech laws mean you cant ADVOCATE violence against a group based on their membership of the group.....it dosent mean you cant OFFEND them. The diplomats job is to explain that position as best and as diplomatically as he can.
avatar4321
09-11-2007, 05:00 AM
Why is that? An ambassador is a DIPLOMAT and are there to help facillitate COMMUNICATION....you do remember what such a thing is right? Or were you never familiar with such concepts.
Sweden isnt going to change any of its laws to accomodate them but there is no reason to be rude and not have any dialog. Sweden dosent hesitate to ask nations to change their laws regarding gender equality and human rights. Everyone has a RIGHT TO ASK, that dosent imply that the request will be granted...and I assure you it wont. They arent about to make any laws saying you cant critisize muslims or their religious figures.
The laws they tried to refer that protect jews and gays are about hate speech and muslims are already protected under that same law. The hate speech laws mean you cant ADVOCATE violence against a group based on their membership of the group.....it dosent mean you cant OFFEND them. The diplomats job is to explain that position as best and as diplomatically as he can.
You seem to think that you can only communicate effectively with people if you talk to them nicely. This is false.
You can effectively communicate with others by being rude and telling them you dont want to talk to them.
Communication for communications sake not the job of ambassadors. Ambassadors are employed first and foremost to speak out for their countries interests. Sometimes their countries interest is to tell others to f*** off.
You seem to think that you can only communicate effectively with people if you talk to them nicely. This is false.
You can effectively communicate with others by being rude and telling them you dont want to talk to them.
Communication for communications sake not the job of ambassadors. Ambassadors are employed first and foremost to speak out for their countries interests. Sometimes their countries interest is to tell others to f*** off.
There isnt any reason to be confrontational or angry. There isnt any reason to be rude...and it isnt in any nations best interest to have their diplomats being rude.
Nothing wrong with them being civil and giving audience to other nations diplomats who would like to talk. Its the same thing Sweden has asked of other nations many times in the past and will many times in the future.
Its not in Swedens best interest to tell anyone to FUCK OFF. They can listen and then share their own point of view. I can tell you now, Sweden isnt going to change any laws and there simply is no advantage in behaving like that to people who want to talk to you.
Dilloduck
09-11-2007, 08:17 AM
There isnt any reason to be confrontational or angry. There isnt any reason to be rude...and it isnt in any nations best interest to have their diplomats being rude.
Nothing wrong with them being civil and giving audience to other nations diplomats who would like to talk. Its the same thing Sweden has asked of other nations many times in the past and will many times in the future.
Its not in Swedens best interest to tell anyone to FUCK OFF. They can listen and then share their own point of view. I can tell you now, Sweden isnt going to change any laws and there simply is no advantage in behaving like that to people who want to talk to you.
Don't you think it's a bit rude for muslims to DEMAND that a country change their laws.
glockmail
09-11-2007, 08:30 AM
....Published: 6th September 2007 17:19 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/8412/
....."Muslims need legal protection against the desecration of the Prophet Muhammad, maybe something similar to the protection enjoyed by Jews and homosexuals." ...
To me this is the interesting part of the article. If Sweden already bent over to appease Jews and queers, then they have to bend over again for Islam.
Or they can flush all these protective laws and let people who CHOOSE their lifestyle to deal with the real world consequences.
To me this is the interesting part of the article. If Sweden already bent over to appease Jews and queers, then they have to bend over again for Islam.
Or they can flush all these protective laws and let people who CHOOSE their lifestyle to deal with the real world consequences.
How did the bend over to appease gays and jews? Hate speech covers all groups, its not specific to jews and gays. It was certainly the holocaust the inspired the hate speech laws but the laws cover all groups.
Yes, it is true that both Jews and gays have equal human rights in sweden and both are allowed to legally marry....of course so are muslims!
Don't you think it's a bit rude for muslims to DEMAND that a country change their laws.
Possibly, but the demand wont be met. I also dont see that answering a percieved rudeness with rudeness as all that productive. Its better for Sweden to explain their freedom of expression values and leave it at that. Its also a good oppurtunity to speak with other nations that dont have such freedom of expression laws to to hear the BENEFITS and positive aspects of having such a thing.
It actually presents an oppurtunity for Sweden to try to sell its idea to others and highlight its value and it cant be said they went there and tried to SHOVE their values on them since it is THEM who are asking for the conversation.
Dilloduck
09-11-2007, 10:27 AM
How did the bend over to appease gays and jews? Hate speech covers all groups, its not specific to jews and gays. It was certainly the holocaust the inspired the hate speech laws but the laws cover all groups.
Yes, it is true that both Jews and gays have equal human rights in sweden and both are allowed to legally marry....of course so are muslims!
Wait until the muslims show up with their DEMANDS that Sweden change it's laws.
It outta be a good read. I wonder what they will threaten Sweden with if they don't comply. Muslim diplomacy is so civilized. :laugh2:
Wait until the muslims show up with their DEMANDS that Sweden change it's laws.
It outta be a good read. I wonder what they will threaten Sweden with if they don't comply. Muslim diplomacy is so civilized. :laugh2:
Ok you wait with bated breath. I am not so worried, it dosent matter how upset they get....Sweden isnt going to change their laws. All Sweden can do is what they feel is right...and communication and diplomacy is the correct way to go about it. Sweden will only be responsible for themselves and their own actions and hold their ground.
I also dont think all muslims are foaming at the mouth terrorists, you seem to really exaggerate that image a bit.
Dilloduck
09-11-2007, 11:05 AM
Ok you wait with bated breath. I am not so worried, it dosent matter how upset they get....Sweden isnt going to change their laws. All Sweden can do is what they feel is right...and communication and diplomacy is the correct way to go about it. Sweden will only be responsible for themselves and their own actions and hold their ground.
I also dont think all muslims are foaming at the mouth terrorists, you seem to really exaggerate that image a bit.
Well it's real nice of Sweden to be so cordial to those foreigners who come to with a list of demands although it's a bit disingenuous to listen to people when you have no intention of doing a damn thing. Maybe patronizing muslims is Swedens' way of trying to dodge violence. Of course all Muslims aren't raving madmen yet exactly how many does it take to kill a bunch of Swedes. Maybe Sweden should embrace Sharia law---strength in diversity and all that rit rot. :laugh2:
glockmail
09-11-2007, 12:07 PM
How did the[y] bend over to appease gays and jews? .... I don't know. The article didn't state how. What I find interesting is that the Muslims would refer to this, saying they want the same thing. Therefore the existing "special citizen" laws apparently don't pertain to them as you infer.
Well it's real nice of Sweden to be so cordial to those foreigners who come to with a list of demands although it's a bit disingenuous to listen to people when you have no intention of doing a damn thing. Maybe patronizing muslims is Swedens' way of trying to dodge violence. Of course all Muslims aren't raving madmen yet exactly how many does it take to kill a bunch of Swedes. Maybe Sweden should embrace Sharia law---strength in diversity and all that rit rot. :laugh2:
What a strange and weird leap..Sweden should embrace sharia law because it follows a policy of open communication and diplomacy? It sounds like you simply have no idea how to react with anythings besides anger and bigotry really.
Sweden intends to talk to them and listen and then speak and explain their position. I dont think accepting a conversation should ever imply that you intend to meet the persons demands, no wonder you dont understand the concept of communication or diplomacy.
Yes Sweden is very cordial, in my world thats a POSITIVE thing, but you enjoy the negative traits like anger and bigotry.
I don't know. The article didn't state how. What I find interesting is that the Muslims would refer to this, saying they want the same thing. Therefore the existing "special citizen" laws apparently don't pertain to them as you infer.
There arent any specific laws pertaining to those groups. The only thing I can think of is hate speech laws which the muslims would also be protected under. I guess thats somthing that Sweden will be able to explain to them in talks. You can offend jews, you can offend gays, you can offend muslims, you can offend christians etc...but you cant advocate they be killed or advocate violence towards them simply for being gay, jewish, christian, muslim etc.
I guess it highlights why talks are good, they obviously arent understanding what they are referring to or what it covers and what it entails...they will after the talks though!
glockmail
09-11-2007, 12:26 PM
There arent any specific laws pertaining to those groups. The only thing I can think of is hate speech laws which the muslims would also be protected under. I guess thats somthing that Sweden will be able to explain to them in talks. You can offend jews, you can offend gays, you can offend muslims, you can offend christians etc...but you cant advocate they be killed or advocate violence towards them simply for being gay, jewish, christian, muslim etc.
I guess it highlights why talks are good, they obviously arent understanding what they are referring to or what it covers and what it entails...they will after the talks though! If there are no such special laws then the Muslim guy is confused. Or there are special laws and you are.
If there are no such special laws then the Muslim guy is confused. Or there are special laws and you are.
There are no special laws for gays or jews....there are only hate speech laws and they have mostly come up in regards to jews and gays but they cover EVERYONE.
BTW, already there have been talks.
http://www.metimes.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20070905-124256-2922r
STOCKHOLM -- Swedish Muslims said Wednesday they had called off a planned demonstration against a newspaper cartoon depicting Prophet Mohammed as a dog, following talks with the prime minister.
"There is no reason anymore to demonstrate again," the head of the Muslim cultural center at Oerebro, Jamal Lahamdi, who had organized two earlier protests, said. The next protest had been planned for Friday.
and (as I figured)
"I, personally, would never intentionally act in a way that could be perceived by other religions as provocative or offensive," he said.
Nonetheless, Swedes believed that freedom of the press and freedom of expression were "an inalienable part of our country and our democracy," he added.
The publication of the cartoon August 18 sparked angry reactions from Muslim countries such as Afghanistan, Egypt, Iran, and Pakistan.
The newspaper's chief editor, Ulf Johansson, said Wednesday he would not be publishing an apology.
"I am sorry if we have offended some of our readers, but we are not going to apologize for printing this picture," he said.
"I have used my right to publish this, and the people have used their right to demonstrate and protest in a democratic country."
glockmail
09-11-2007, 01:29 PM
There are no special laws for gays or jews....there are only hate speech laws and they have mostly come up in regards to jews and gays but they cover EVERYONE.
..... evidently the Muslims don't agree with you.
evidently the Muslims don't agree with you.
Well its not a matter of agreement or not, its just a fact.
Also, I wouldnt say that statements from one muslim is a statement from ALL muslims nor do I think all muslims are aware of swedish laws nor do I think they all CARE about swedish laws.
It seems that the swedish muslims talked to the prime minister already and they seem pretty content. And just as I predicted, Sweden was nice but firm about not changing laws and upholding freedom of expression...and the paper who published the cartoon isnt apologizing (as they shouldnt).
Also note that the swedish muslims werent violent, they simply exercized their right to freedom of expression as well when they demonstrate and voice their feelings on the matters at hand.
I dunno, seems to me that its all good news really because each time freedom of expression is challenged and it prevails...its a win!
Dilloduck
09-11-2007, 03:09 PM
What a strange and weird leap..Sweden should embrace sharia law because it follows a policy of open communication and diplomacy? It sounds like you simply have no idea how to react with anythings besides anger and bigotry really.
Sweden intends to talk to them and listen and then speak and explain their position. I dont think accepting a conversation should ever imply that you intend to meet the persons demands, no wonder you dont understand the concept of communication or diplomacy.
Yes Sweden is very cordial, in my world thats a POSITIVE thing, but you enjoy the negative traits like anger and bigotry.
Maybe if they had approached Sweden with bombs and massacres like they did America, they would have responded differently.
glockmail
09-11-2007, 03:50 PM
Well its not a matter of agreement or not, its just a fact.
.... Nice to know that you are both the Judge and the Jury. It makes it convenient if there is ever a dispute that needs to be settled.
avatar4321
09-12-2007, 04:00 AM
There isnt any reason to be confrontational or angry. There isnt any reason to be rude...and it isnt in any nations best interest to have their diplomats being rude.
Nothing wrong with them being civil and giving audience to other nations diplomats who would like to talk. Its the same thing Sweden has asked of other nations many times in the past and will many times in the future.
Its not in Swedens best interest to tell anyone to FUCK OFF. They can listen and then share their own point of view. I can tell you now, Sweden isnt going to change any laws and there simply is no advantage in behaving like that to people who want to talk to you.
Being rude seems to have been the French interest and has worked well for them.
Is it really being rude to tell someone who is trying to force themselves onto you to take a long walk off a short bridge?
Sometimes its in the national interest to go to war as well. Thats not exactly being civil and talking.
Gunny
09-12-2007, 06:13 AM
Why is that? An ambassador is a DIPLOMAT and are there to help facillitate COMMUNICATION....you do remember what such a thing is right? Or were you never familiar with such concepts.
Sweden isnt going to change any of its laws to accomodate them but there is no reason to be rude and not have any dialog. Sweden dosent hesitate to ask nations to change their laws regarding gender equality and human rights. Everyone has a RIGHT TO ASK, that dosent imply that the request will be granted...and I assure you it wont. They arent about to make any laws saying you cant critisize muslims or their religious figures.
The laws they tried to refer that protect jews and gays are about hate speech and muslims are already protected under that same law. The hate speech laws mean you cant ADVOCATE violence against a group based on their membership of the group.....it dosent mean you cant OFFEND them. The diplomats job is to explain that position as best and as diplomatically as he can.
Kissing ass to a gaggle of religious nutcases making demands is not facillitating communications ... it's selling out. Radical Islam has quite a record for "asking," doesn't it?
They should get the same answer the people in Darfur have gotten .... everyone turn their backs to them.
Gunny
09-12-2007, 06:19 AM
Nice to know that you are both the Judge and the Jury. It makes it convenient if there is ever a dispute that needs to be settled.
All you need to know about Ruby is: US = guilty. Military = murderers. Anyone against either of those two are wrong, and anyone who agrees is an intellectual giant.
Nice to know that you are both the Judge and the Jury. It makes it convenient if there is ever a dispute that needs to be settled.
There isnt any dispute over hate crime laws and that there are no laws that specifically cater to gays or jewish people. Facts are facts, its not a matter of "judgement". Just because one muslim in another nation has some confusion over the law dosent mean its a confusing issue or ambiguous in any way.
Kissing ass to a gaggle of religious nutcases making demands is not facillitating communications ... it's selling out. Radical Islam has quite a record for "asking," doesn't it?
They should get the same answer the people in Darfur have gotten .... everyone turn their backs to them.
Having coversations and trying to reach better understandings between individuals is not "kissing ass".
Its become obvious how many people think the only response that anyone should have is about anger and force.
Also the muslims who live in Sweden certainly have a right to have their issues addressed, as part of this society, all do. No laws were changed, the newspaper did NOT issue any apology either. It seems the muslims in Sweden were satisfied with the talks which means they DO seem to understand that the right to freedom of expression prevailed and that it is correct to do so.
All you need to know about Ruby is: US = guilty. Military = murderers. Anyone against either of those two are wrong, and anyone who agrees is an intellectual giant.
Look at you trying to round up the sheep and tell them "what to think"....is that the way you do things around here? I hope they appreciate your condescending efforts of trying to make it kindegarten simple for them.
I think you should only speak for yourself and I will only speak for myself. You dont have a clue what I think about most things or why...its all a bit over your head as you have illustrated for me on a few occasions already.
Now quick, go get shattered so she can neg rep me for ya! :lol:
Maybe if they had approached Sweden with bombs and massacres like they did America, they would have responded differently.
Then there would have to be a investigation into the crime so that those particular people that are guilty can be charged and punished for their crimes. Sweden wouldnt go invade random muslim nations though. Sweden also wouldnt change its laws in response either....I doubt we would go with color coded daily terror alerts either!
It sounds like people are upset that it didnt turn violent and arent happy with the fact that Sweden OBVIOUSLY took the right action. NO laws are changed, no apologies for the newspaper cartoon nor any promises that there wont be more either (as I predicted)...but certainly the swedish muslim community feels its been clarified and are content with that and are probably happy they were heard. It was the muslim community IN sweden that says its a DOMESTIC issue and dont want all muslims outside the nation involved. Its nice to see they feel part of this nation and community, it means somthing has been done right.
Nothing is ever perfect, but its always nice to see things work out well.
glockmail
09-12-2007, 10:44 AM
There isnt any dispute over hate crime laws and that there are no laws that specifically cater to gays or jewish people. Facts are facts, its not a matter of "judgement". Just because one muslim in another nation has some confusion over the law dosent mean its a confusing issue or ambiguous in any way. You say there are no specific laws that protect jes and queers. The muslim says different. You say what you say is fact: undisputable.
As you have appointed yourself judge and jury there's not much left to discuss, is there?
You say there are no specific laws that protect jes and queers. The muslim says different. You say what you say is fact: undisputable.
As you have appointed yourself judge and jury there's not much left to discuss, is there?
It dosent require a judge, the fact is there is no such law. Please show me what law it is. Just because a muslim was confused about the law dosent change the fact.
I think you are trying to find something to nit pick about cause you wanted more problems out of this situation and dont like the fact that people talking sorted it out just fine. Is it hard to face the fact that muslims CAN be talked to and they CAN accept our freedom of expression?
Dilloduck
09-12-2007, 11:35 AM
It dosent require a judge, the fact is there is no such law. Please show me what law it is. Just because a muslim was confused about the law dosent change the fact.
I think you are trying to find something to nit pick about cause you wanted more problems out of this situation and dont like the fact that people talking sorted it out just fine. Is it hard to face the fact that muslims CAN be talked to and they CAN accept our freedom of expression?
Ever think that maybe muslims treat swedes differently than Americans?---Has bin laden declared war on Sweden?
Ever think that maybe muslims treat swedes differently than Americans?---Has bin laden declared war on Sweden?
But I thought muslims hated the US for their freeeeedoms. We have those same freeeeedoms in sweden. In fact, Gays can legally get married in Sweden...shouldnt such liberal things like that make them hate us even more?
My guess is that they dont hate sweden because sweden hasnt overthrown their govts and installed brutal dictator puppets (as in Iran and Iraq). Sweden hasnt put military bases in their region or propped up any of their dictators or helped any of their most corrupt leaders. Maybe respecting other nations soveriegn rights and rights to self determine gains you that mutual respect. Its a thought!
Dilloduck
09-12-2007, 11:47 AM
But I thought muslims hated the US for their freeeeedoms. We have those same freeeeedoms in sweden. In fact, Gays can legally get married in Sweden...shouldnt such liberal things like that make them hate us even more?
My guess is that they dont hate sweden because sweden hasnt overthrown their govts and installed brutal dictator puppets (as in Iran and Iraq). Sweden hasnt put military bases in their region or propped up any of their dictators or helped any of their most corrupt leaders. Maybe respecting other nations soveriegn rights and rights to self determine gains you that mutual respect. Its a thought!
I thought gays didn't get special rights in Sweden.
Abbey Marie
09-12-2007, 11:50 AM
But I thought muslims hated the US for their freeeeedoms. We have those same freeeeedoms in sweden. In fact, Gays can legally get married in Sweden...shouldnt such liberal things like that make them hate us even more?
My guess is that they dont hate sweden because sweden hasnt overthrown their govts and installed brutal dictator puppets (as in Iran and Iraq). Sweden hasnt put military bases in their region or propped up any of their dictators or helped any of their most corrupt leaders. Maybe respecting other nations soveriegn rights and rights to self determine gains you that mutual respect. Its a thought!
Sorry to burst your bubble, but they probably would hate Sweden if they gave it any thought. Its just not a big enough player to worry about right now.
I thought gays didn't get special rights in Sweden.
There isnt anything special about the right to get married. Its available to all adult consenting couples. Muslims can do it, christians can do it, jews can do it, atheists can do it, gays can do it, black people can do it, white people can do it, asians can do it.....etc etc. See, nothing special at all. ALL GROUPS are covered!
Sorry to burst your bubble, but they probably would hate Sweden if they gave it any thought. Its just not a big enough player to worry about right now.
Yet so many early in this thread seemed to think muslims were just waiting to pounce etc. Funny how that didnt become the excuse til AFTER it was seen that the TALKS did work and that sweden DID NOT have to change anything nor would the paper apologize OR promise they wont do it again. In fact, you can be sure they WILL do it again.
It sucks when all the hopes for violence and anger are just dashed so roundly huh?
Dilloduck
09-12-2007, 11:56 AM
Yet so many early in this thread seemed to think muslims were just waiting to pounce etc. Funny how that didnt become the excuse til AFTER it was seen that the TALKS did work and that sweden DID NOT have to change anything nor would the paper apologize OR promise they wont do it again. In fact, you can be sure they WILL do it again.
It sucks when all the hopes for violence and anger are just dashed so roundly huh?
No----it's hysterical when you try to compare Swedens dealings with Muslims to American dealings with Muslims tho.
No----it's hysterical when you try to compare Swedens dealings with Muslims to American dealings with Muslims tho.
You started that, not me. I remember in the beginning of the thread so many WANTED Sweden to respond as the US would with a big FUCK YOU. It seems to me that so many are a bit pissy cause they didnt like that Sweden IS different and did it THEIR WAY and DID get a positive result without compromising their laws or freedom of expression at all.
:dance:
Abbey Marie
09-12-2007, 12:09 PM
No----it's hysterical when you try to compare Swedens dealings with Muslims to American dealings with Muslims tho.
That's what I was trying to say. The two are apples and oranges, for now. Eventually, though, all Western countries will be targeted.
That's what I was trying to say. The two are apples and oranges, for now. Eventually, though, all Western countries will be targeted.
Well you can keep hoping that and living in that nonsense delusion, but I suggest it might make your life less enjoyable.
You should also remember that Hitler also convinced his population that they were constantly under attack so that he could get them to keep supporting his aggressive wars for his own corrupt goals....maybe we shouldnt repeat that mistake.
You might take notice that its been the WESTERN countries who have done the invading and attacking to the middle east, the overthrowing of govts and installing puppets to the middle east and the west who carved out some land in their region to hand to mass emmigrating jews from europe to have as their own for the last century. They havent DONE ANY of that to us. Its US who are threatening to invade and attack MORE....they havent threatened to invade us.
It seems we are on the conquest, not them.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but they probably would hate Sweden if they gave it any thought. Its just not a big enough player to worry about right now.
Just wanted to let you know that THEY DID give Sweden some thought and Osama himself addressed it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3966817.stm
Oh American people, my talk to you is about the best way to avoid another Manhattan, about the war, its causes, and results.
Security is an important pillar of human life. Free people do not relinquish their security. This is contrary to Bush's claim that we hate freedom.
Let him tell us why we did not strike Sweden, for example. It is known that those who hate freedom do not have proud souls, like the souls of the 19 people [killed while perpetrating the 11 September 2001 attacks], may God have mercy on them.
We fought you because we are free and do not accept injustice. We want to restore freedom to our nation. Just as you waste our security, we will waste your security.
So appearantly they have given sweden some thought and remembered that sweden hasnt been staging coups, installing dictators, invading their nations, bombing their countries etc.
SO much for your theory!
manu1959
09-12-2007, 01:23 PM
Just wanted to let you know that THEY DID give Sweden some thought and Osama himself addressed it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3966817.stm
So appearantly they have given sweden some thought and remembered that sweden hasnt been staging coups, installing dictators, invading their nations, bombing their countries etc.
SO much for your theory!
...well not since the invasion of findland anyway......plus it is cold
...well not since the invasion of findland anyway......plus it is cold
Since when is Finland a middle eastern country?
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RUSfinland.htm
Finland was united with Sweden from the early Middle Ages until 1809 when it became a grand duchy of Russia
LOL!! An invasion that took place 800 years ago to a country NOT in the middle east has what to do with this exactly?
manu1959
09-12-2007, 01:32 PM
Since when is Finland a middle eastern country?
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RUSfinland.htm
LOL!! An invasion that took place 800 years ago to a country NOT in the middle east has what to do with this exactly?
from where i sit yall are eastern.....dirty hands argument ....all yall are beyond redemption.....
from where i sit yall are eastern.....dirty hands argument ....all yall are beyond redemption.....
You are just making NO SENSE at all. Does that happen often?
manu1959
09-12-2007, 01:44 PM
You are just making NO SENSE at all. Does that happen often?
nope .... only liberals get confused....which is funny, because that new study said all yall were open to process new information and did it really well....guess the study was wrong...
nope .... only liberals get confused....which is funny, because that new study said all yall were open to process new information and did it really well....guess the study was wrong...
You arent adding any NEW INFORMATION, you are just talking gibberish.
manu1959
09-12-2007, 01:59 PM
You arent adding any NEW INFORMATION, you are just talking gibberish.
who appointed you gibberish police....
so should sweden change its laws to accomodate the muslims or should the muslims adapt to swedish law.....
if a swede went to mecca what would they have to do....
Abbey Marie
09-12-2007, 02:00 PM
Just wanted to let you know that THEY DID give Sweden some thought and Osama himself addressed it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3966817.stm
So appearantly they have given sweden some thought and remembered that sweden hasnt been staging coups, installing dictators, invading their nations, bombing their countries etc.
SO much for your theory!
His mentioning your country dismissively only adds to my theory. He used Sweden as an example of a country he isn't even considering at the moment.
But it's interesting to note that you revel in OBL's mere mention. Let's see how that is working for you in the future. Oh, and one other thing: Don't be looking for us to bail you out when you are in deep doo doo.
Abbey Marie
09-12-2007, 02:03 PM
Well you can keep hoping that and living in that nonsense delusion, but I suggest it might make your life less enjoyable.
You should also remember that Hitler also convinced his population that they were constantly under attack so that he could get them to keep supporting his aggressive wars for his own corrupt goals....maybe we shouldnt repeat that mistake.
You might take notice that its been the WESTERN countries who have done the invading and attacking to the middle east, the overthrowing of govts and installing puppets to the middle east and the west who carved out some land in their region to hand to mass emmigrating jews from europe to have as their own for the last century. They havent DONE ANY of that to us. Its US who are threatening to invade and attack MORE....they havent threatened to invade us.
It seems we are on the conquest, not them.
My dear, you are the one with blinders on. Sadly. :lalala:
I wonder what it will take to wake you all up? A country full of burqa wearing women? Or does it have to come down to a sword to the throat at your own beheading?
Gunny
09-12-2007, 04:53 PM
Having coversations and trying to reach better understandings between individuals is not "kissing ass".
Its become obvious how many people think the only response that anyone should have is about anger and force.
Also the muslims who live in Sweden certainly have a right to have their issues addressed, as part of this society, all do. No laws were changed, the newspaper did NOT issue any apology either. It seems the muslims in Sweden were satisfied with the talks which means they DO seem to understand that the right to freedom of expression prevailed and that it is correct to do so.
What's become obvious is your willingness to put words into other people's mouthes. I don't believe I mentioned a word about using either anger, or force, did I?
Ignoring someone requires neither.
who appointed you gibberish police....
so should sweden change its laws to accomodate the muslims or should the muslims adapt to swedish law.....
if a swede went to mecca what would they have to do....
If you had actually READ this thread then you would find that the laws in Sweden ARENT changed nor would I advocate they be changed. You would also see that after the talks that the swedish muslim group acceped that fully and felt that the talks were good. The paper who published the cartoon did NOT apologize either, they wouldnt do so for exercizing their important rights.
It seems many posters just didnt like the fact that Sweden was willing to discuss it and talk to people...they would rather Sweden say FUCK OFF instead.
What's become obvious is your willingness to put words into other people's mouthes. I don't believe I mentioned a word about using either anger, or force, did I?
Ignoring someone requires neither.
When you suggest that "talking" to people is "kissing ass" then ya, you are obviously desiring a more rude and angry response. Ignoring people is also rude. Muslims in Sweden are part of this society and have as much right to be heard as any other group of this society...and they were.
Foriegn nations also are usually granted audience by depts (amabassadors) whose job it is to address their concerns and explain Swedens position.
Refusing communication, ignoring people etc is all counter-productive, disrespectful and rude. Communications can reach a point where they have no more merit, but that isnt somthing that has occured before discussions have EVEN STARTED as many posters here (including yourself) wanted to happen.
avatar4321
09-15-2007, 08:07 AM
When you suggest that "talking" to people is "kissing ass" then ya, you are obviously desiring a more rude and angry response. Ignoring people is also rude. Muslims in Sweden are part of this society and have as much right to be heard as any other group of this society...and they were.
Foriegn nations also are usually granted audience by depts (amabassadors) whose job it is to address their concerns and explain Swedens position.
Refusing communication, ignoring people etc is all counter-productive, disrespectful and rude. Communications can reach a point where they have no more merit, but that isnt somthing that has occured before discussions have EVEN STARTED as many posters here (including yourself) wanted to happen.
When the first communications are requests for capitulations then youve already moved past the point where there is no more merit.
Indeed, responding in such a way would not be rude because its a reaction to already rude behavior.
When the first communications are requests for capitulations then youve already moved past the point where there is no more merit.
Indeed, responding in such a way would not be rude because its a reaction to already rude behavior.
Then exactly why did it all work out so well and NONE of the swedish laws changed and the paper NOT apologizing for running the cartoon? I guess because when talks are requested and their goals are stated...it just dosent mean that demands will be met or that the talks have actually HAPPENED yet.
I think the rude response would have needlessly escalated things and it was pretty easy to clear up without having to compromise any laws or rights.....wisdom and common decency prevailed and it occurs to me that this upsets the war monger crowd because it directly refutes the idea that brute force and sentiments like "fuck off" are best or even work well.
Abbey Marie
09-15-2007, 11:56 AM
Whether or not laws were changed is not the whole story. While it is positive, Sweden's agreeing to talk about changing its laws to suit others is at the least a perceived dilution of its sovereignty. It gives the Muslim community a sense of strength and a foot in the door for next time. Sometimes power is surrendered by inches. It will come back to bite Sweden at some point.
Dilloduck
09-15-2007, 01:08 PM
So sweden would find negotiating with terrorists perfectly acceptable ?
Gunny
09-15-2007, 02:04 PM
When you suggest that "talking" to people is "kissing ass" then ya, you are obviously desiring a more rude and angry response. Ignoring people is also rude. Muslims in Sweden are part of this society and have as much right to be heard as any other group of this society...and they were.
Foriegn nations also are usually granted audience by depts (amabassadors) whose job it is to address their concerns and explain Swedens position.
Refusing communication, ignoring people etc is all counter-productive, disrespectful and rude. Communications can reach a point where they have no more merit, but that isnt somthing that has occured before discussions have EVEN STARTED as many posters here (including yourself) wanted to happen.
Disrespectful and rude ... that's me when it comes to dealing with asshats. You of all people should have figured that out by now.;)
So sweden would find negotiating with terrorists perfectly acceptable ?
Where was there negotiating? Last I knew, talking to people who feel offended isnt anything like "negotiating with terrorists". LOL, you attempts are far too feeble.
Whether or not laws were changed is not the whole story. While it is positive, Sweden's agreeing to talk about changing its laws to suit others is at the least a perceived dilution of its sovereignty. It gives the Muslim community a sense of strength and a foot in the door for next time. Sometimes power is surrendered by inches. It will come back to bite Sweden at some point.
There never agreed to TALK about changing its laws, thats what some others wanted and Sweden agreed to talk but never agreed to even negotiate changing its laws. Thats why talking is good, it can help clarify things and not leave so much room for misunderstanding.
Every community should feel a sense of strength and they should always feel welcomed to request communications.
I know you are just hoping it comes back to bite Sweden in the end because Sweden didnt do it the US way and this means maybe the US way isnt the ONLY way and in fact isnt even the BEST way.
The fear mongering and bigotry is counter-productive and has never brought the world anything but death, destruction and pain. Repeating mistakes already made is just evidence of a fool, why the US nation is intent on playing the fool is anyones guess.
Disrespectful and rude ... that's me when it comes to dealing with asshats. You of all people should have figured that out by now.;)
The muslim community in Sweden are not asshats and they had every right to be heard...they are part of this community and have all the same exact rights everyone else in this community has.
I dont think you really know much behavior beyond disrespectful and rude, its the easiest behavior to have...it never takes much thought, hence the most likely reason you choose it so often.
Said1
09-16-2007, 10:06 AM
You seem to think that you can only communicate effectively with people if you talk to them nicely. This is false.
You can effectively communicate with others by being rude and telling them you dont want to talk to them.
Communication for communications sake not the job of ambassadors. Ambassadors are employed first and foremost to speak out for their countries interests. Sometimes their countries interest is to tell others to f*** off.
Right. Do you re-call what the US ambassador to Canada had to say about Canada after 9/11? Our ambassadors to other countries have had some choice words about their host governments as well -they said it nicely though. :laugh2:
Said1
09-16-2007, 10:20 AM
I just stole this from the "sorryboutthat' guy's thread. Relates to this one re: Sweden and Swedish heads being cut off by your friendly neighborhood fanatic.
Ruby, can you get someone to talk to these guys? Someone really pissed them off by being rude.
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5g1KyJ192e7gsHj31Fx2iS1yFgdbw
Nukeman
09-16-2007, 11:38 AM
I just stole this from the "sorryboutthat' guy's thread. Relates to this one re: Sweden and Swedish heads being cut off by your friendly neighborhood fanatic.
Ruby, can you get someone to talk to these guys? Someone really pissed them off by being rude.
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5g1KyJ192e7gsHj31Fx2iS1yFgdbwI'm sure they really just want to talk..... thats alll....... They dont really want to kill him... Oh by the way they raised the total to 150,000 dollars for his death....
What a great religion!!!!!!!!!!!! Of peace that is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Abbey Marie
09-16-2007, 12:20 PM
There never agreed to TALK about changing its laws, thats what some others wanted and Sweden agreed to talk but never agreed to even negotiate changing its laws. Thats why talking is good, it can help clarify things and not leave so much room for misunderstanding.
Every community should feel a sense of strength and they should always feel welcomed to request communications.
I know you are just hoping it comes back to bite Sweden in the end because Sweden didnt do it the US way and this means maybe the US way isnt the ONLY way and in fact isnt even the BEST way.
The fear mongering and bigotry is counter-productive and has never brought the world anything but death, destruction and pain. Repeating mistakes already made is just evidence of a fool, why the US nation is intent on playing the fool is anyones guess.
You are parsing words, and have completely disregarded the points I made. Because it doesn't fit with your real agenda, which is to try to convince people that the US is too aggressive and too stupid to know any better. Very unoriginal, and it gives your argument little to no credibility. Perhaps when you have an honest moment with yourself, you should re-read it and just internalize it. No need to admit it to me.
Btw, since you claim they talked but it didn't mean anything, what did they talk about- the weather? :rolleyes:
You are parsing words, and have completely disregarded the points I made. Because it doesn't fit with your real agenda, which is to try to convince people that the US is too aggressive and too stupid to know any better. Very unoriginal, and it gives your argument little to no credibility. Perhaps when you have an honest moment with yourself, you should re-read it and just internalize it. No need to admit it to me.
Btw, since you claim they talked but it didn't mean anything, what did they talk about- the weather? :rolleyes:
They talked about Swedish laws and Swedens position that those laws serve an important function and will not be changed. The point was obviously understood as it was also pointed out the demonstrations that were held by muslims in Sweden were ALSO part of that freedom of expression and how their own voices were protected as well.
I dont have to parse your words, you have a very blatent "THE MUSLIMS ARE COMING TO GET US" schtick going on. Its extremely basic and quite simple, its also quite dumb.
I just stole this from the "sorryboutthat' guy's thread. Relates to this one re: Sweden and Swedish heads being cut off by your friendly neighborhood fanatic.
Ruby, can you get someone to talk to these guys? Someone really pissed them off by being rude.
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5g1KyJ192e7gsHj31Fx2iS1yFgdbw
That person would be handled as a criminal as laws are broken and can only be enforced within the boundries of Sweden. If they make such threats and are in Sweden, then we can arrest them....other than that what do you want Sweden to do exactly? Declare a war? Become a bunch of bigots and hate all muslims? Start building nukes?
People make threats, if the cross the legal lines and do so within Swedens boundries then they can be handled according to laws already on the books. The apologies wont be made to appease them nor will laws be changed.
Cant do much about people who refuse dialogue and communication, you can only hold your ground and follow the laws that already exist.
I'm sure they really just want to talk..... thats alll....... They dont really want to kill him... Oh by the way they raised the total to 150,000 dollars for his death....
What a great religion!!!!!!!!!!!! Of peace that is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The muslims here in Sweden have already gone public with their disagreement on both a religious note and the fact that it is a DOMESTIC problem and should not involve people outside sweden. So they are a religion of peace, just as much as christians are...or should we say Phelps represents all christians huh?
Gunny
09-17-2007, 06:33 AM
The muslim community in Sweden are not asshats and they had every right to be heard...they are part of this community and have all the same exact rights everyone else in this community has.
I dont think you really know much behavior beyond disrespectful and rude, its the easiest behavior to have...it never takes much thought, hence the most likely reason you choose it so often.
Gee, I must have missed the part where these Muslims represent the Swedish Muslim community. Matter of fact, that isn't what the article states at all.
Appears to me a bunch of whiners from 20 Muslim countries wish to register their displeasure over the lack of deference accorded their religion by Sweden.
Not even a GOOD attempt at twisting the topic to suit you.
And your attempt at insult is just flat-out lame. Typical ploy of the wannabe-elite. I am actually quite polite to those who deserve it.
Those who do nothing but criticize a Nation they abandoned -- mine -- don't deserve shit. Questions?
Gee, I must have missed the part where these Muslims represent the Swedish Muslim community. Matter of fact, that isn't what the article states at all.
Appears to me a bunch of whiners from 20 Muslim countries wish to register their displeasure over the lack of deference accorded their religion by Sweden.
Not even a GOOD attempt at twisting the topic to suit you.
And your attempt at insult is just flat-out lame. Typical ploy of the wannabe-elite. I am actually quite polite to those who deserve it.
Those who do nothing but criticize a Nation they abandoned -- mine -- don't deserve shit. Questions?
LOL! Well you should keep up with the thread and read the links a bit better. Sweden first talked to the swedish muslim community and in the link above, the swedish muslims are the ones complaining about muslims OUTSIDE the nation becoming involved and have stated its a domestic issue only.
Yep other nations may want to register their displeasure, they are free to do so. They are also free to communicate with the Swedish govt on the issue, the govt has made it clear they are welcoming to such communication. Sweden wont change its laws or apologize for people using their rights..but they will talk and explain those highly valued and precious rights.
Abandoned?! The nation isnt my child or spouse! The fact that I no longer live in the US seems to rattle your cage....you come across as downright insecure over it. Is it because it challenges the idea that EVERYONE wants to live in the US and that the US is the GREATEST country on earth? My guess is yea, it does. Patriotism is like religion to some....that kind of extreme just cant be healthy.
PS its still my country, I am still a citizen, I can still vote and I still have to file my taxes every year.
Gee, I must have missed the part where these Muslims represent the Swedish Muslim community. Matter of fact, that isn't what the article states at all.
Appears to me a bunch of whiners from 20 Muslim countries wish to register their displeasure over the lack of deference accorded their religion by Sweden.
Not even a GOOD attempt at twisting the topic to suit you.
And your attempt at insult is just flat-out lame. Typical ploy of the wannabe-elite. I am actually quite polite to those who deserve it.
Those who do nothing but criticize a Nation they abandoned -- mine -- don't deserve shit. Questions?
This was way back on page 2.
http://www.metimes.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20070905-124256-2922r
Prime Minister Fredirk Reinfeldt said after Tuesday's talks with Swedish Muslim organizations, "I regret if people have taken offense or feel offended" by the cartoon in a local newspaper, Nerikes Allehanda.
"I, personally, would never intentionally act in a way that could be perceived by other religions as provocative or offensive," he said.
Nonetheless, Swedes believed that freedom of the press and freedom of expression were "an inalienable part of our country and our democracy," he added.
The publication of the cartoon August 18 sparked angry reactions from Muslim countries such as Afghanistan, Egypt, Iran, and Pakistan.
The newspaper's chief editor, Ulf Johansson, said Wednesday he would not be publishing an apology.
"I am sorry if we have offended some of our readers, but we are not going to apologize for printing this picture," he said.
"I have used my right to publish this, and the people have used their right to demonstrate and protest in a democratic country."
The picture was not published on the Internet, because it was aimed only at Swedish people in the area, he said.
"We only published locally, so I am a bit suprised we can offend anyone in Iran, in Pakistan."
Lahamdi also stressed Wednesday that the problem was a domestic one. "We don't want to involve all the Muslim people all over the world," he said, adding, "This step taken by this government is very good."
There were the talks with the SWEDISH muslim community and there is Lahamdi (representative for swedish muslims) stressing he sees the problem as a DOMESTIC one and dosent want muslims OUTSIDE sweden to be involved.
Apparently you are missing info and its confusing you.
Trigg
09-17-2007, 02:33 PM
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8RNBM3G3&show_article=1
STOCKHOLM, Sweden (AP) - A Swedish cartoonist who depicted Islam's Prophet Muhammad with the body of a dog said Monday that police have taken him to a secret location and told him he cannot return home following a death threat from al-Qaida in Iraq.
Lars Vilks, who was whisked away by police when he returned to Sweden from Germany on Sunday, said police have described the threats against him as "very serious."
"Police guard was nonexistent before this. It's 100 percent now," he said in a telephone interview. "I can't live in my home, I've only been allowed to pick up some things."
The leader of al-Qaida in Iraq, Abu Omar al-Baghdadi, offered $100,000 over the weekend for Vilks' murder. He said the bounty would be upped to $150,000 if Vilks was "slaughtered like a lamb" and offered $50,000 for the killing of the editor of a local newspaper that reprinted the cartoon on Aug. 19.
They will continue to be laughed at whenever they use the "religion of peace" line, if they don't put a lid on their fanatics.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8RNBM3G3&show_article=1
They will never continue to be laughed at whenever they use the "religion of peace" line, if they don't put a lid on their fanatics.
Well no bigots will always use the actions of a few extremists to justify their hatred of an ENTIRE group. I can find numerous nut job and dangerous christians....does that mean I get to pretend they represent the majority of christians?
Bigotry and racism are always rationalized by the irrational.
Trigg
09-17-2007, 02:46 PM
Well no bigots will always use the actions of a few extremists to justify their hatred of an ENTIRE group. I can find numerous nut job and dangerous christians....does that mean I get to pretend they represent the majority of christians?
Bigotry and racism are always rationalized by the irrational.
This has nothing to do with racism, your throwing that in to confuse the issue. Being Muslim isn't a race it's a religion.
Second. If this were a fringe group in one country saying and doing stupid things than I could agree with you. It isn't. There are numerous countries with a Muslim majority where the Christians are persecuted. From Asia to Africa they are coming to power with forced conversions and death threats.
Ya, you can find dangerous Christian individuals. That just isn't the case with the Muslims.
Abbey Marie
09-17-2007, 02:56 PM
STOCKHOLM, Sweden (AP) - A Swedish cartoonist who depicted Islam's Prophet Muhammad with the body of a dog said Monday that police have taken him to a secret location and told him he cannot return home following a death threat from al-Qaida in Iraq.
Lars Vilks, who was whisked away by police when he returned to Sweden from Germany on Sunday, said police have described the threats against him as "very serious."
"Police guard was nonexistent before this. It's 100 percent now," he said in a telephone interview. "I can't live in my home, I've only been allowed to pick up some things."
The leader of al-Qaida in Iraq, Abu Omar al-Baghdadi, offered $100,000 over the weekend for Vilks' murder. He said the bounty would be upped to $150,000 if Vilks was "slaughtered like a lamb" and offered $50,000 for the killing of the editor of a local newspaper that reprinted the cartoon on Aug. 19.
Aw, come on Vilks. Come on out and talk to the nice Muslims. :rolleyes:
Gunny
09-17-2007, 04:10 PM
LOL! Well you should keep up with the thread and read the links a bit better. Sweden first talked to the swedish muslim community and in the link above, the swedish muslims are the ones complaining about muslims OUTSIDE the nation becoming involved and have stated its a domestic issue only.
Yep other nations may want to register their displeasure, they are free to do so. They are also free to communicate with the Swedish govt on the issue, the govt has made it clear they are welcoming to such communication. Sweden wont change its laws or apologize for people using their rights..but they will talk and explain those highly valued and precious rights.
Abandoned?! The nation isnt my child or spouse! The fact that I no longer live in the US seems to rattle your cage....you come across as downright insecure over it. Is it because it challenges the idea that EVERYONE wants to live in the US and that the US is the GREATEST country on earth? My guess is yea, it does. Patriotism is like religion to some....that kind of extreme just cant be healthy.
PS its still my country, I am still a citizen, I can still vote and I still have to file my taxes every year.
So what you're saying is I should jump everytime you deflect? Not going to happen.
As far as you no longer living in the US goes, it's quite to the contrary of your assumption. It pleases me no end that you no longer live here. If you wanted to make me ecstatic, please take a dozen-or-so people who think like you along as well.
Gunny
09-17-2007, 04:12 PM
Well no bigots will always use the actions of a few extremists to justify their hatred of an ENTIRE group. I can find numerous nut job and dangerous christians....does that mean I get to pretend they represent the majority of christians?
Bigotry and racism are always rationalized by the irrational.
Odd isn't it that I find your own post describes you as much as anyone else?
This has nothing to do with racism, your throwing that in to confuse the issue. Being Muslim isn't a race it's a religion.
Second. If this were a fringe group in one country saying and doing stupid things than I could agree with you. It isn't. There are numerous countries with a Muslim majority where the Christians are persecuted. From Asia to Africa they are coming to power with forced conversions and death threats.
Ya, you can find dangerous Christian individuals. That just isn't the case with the Muslims.
Jewish is also just a religion yet we recognize racism against Jews...call it bigotry, dosent matter to me, it is what it is.
Just more rationalizations for bigotry. It seems to me that its a christian country who has invaded 2 nations, occupies two nations and is talking about invading yet another nation. That seems pretty "dangerous" to me. Its a christian nation who has lied its way into 2 wars (vietnam and Iraq) and looks to be intent on using the same lie to do it again.
Want to take a look at the history and current events of the christian nation Britain?
Christians cant claim any moral high ground on violence by a long shot. I find all religion pretty silly but there isnt one thats better than the other.
So what you're saying is I should jump everytime you deflect? Not going to happen.
As far as you no longer living in the US goes, it's quite to the contrary of your assumption. It pleases me no end that you no longer live here. If you wanted to make me ecstatic, please take a dozen-or-so people who think like you along as well.
No need to deflect anything. Its as if you lack very basic comprehension skills.
If it pleases you so much that I no longer live there, then why call it abandonment? That makes it seems as if my nation NEEDS me there to hold its hand while it shivers in fear. That word indicates you have some discomfort with people leaving, most likely for the reasons I stated earlier.
Trigg
09-18-2007, 05:55 AM
Jewish is also just a religion yet we recognize racism against Jews...call it bigotry, dosent matter to me, it is what it is.
Just more rationalizations for bigotry. It seems to me that its a christian country who has invaded 2 nations, occupies two nations and is talking about invading yet another nation. That seems pretty "dangerous" to me. Its a christian nation who has lied its way into 2 wars (vietnam and Iraq) and looks to be intent on using the same lie to do it again.
Want to take a look at the history and current events of the christian nation Britain?
Christians cant claim any moral high ground on violence by a long shot. I find all religion pretty silly but there isnt one thats better than the other.
Again, Muslim is not a race when practiced by whites, blacks, Asians and people in the middle east. So it's not racism.
IF Islam was a religion of peace we wouldn't see them killing people who don't convert, or people who converted and now want to go back. It isn't explained away by saying it's only a few fanatics either, since in every country where Muslims are a majority there is persecution of other religions.
Trigg
09-18-2007, 06:09 AM
Indonesia: In the eastern islands of this largest Muslim nation in the world, white-uniformed militiamen of Laskar Jihad are forcibly converting Christians to Islam. Marshall said this caused considerable embarrassment to the government, which did not condone such actions.
This campaign has so far cost the lives of 5,000 to 6,000 people, the British-born scholar related. "There are links between Laskar Jihad and top terrorist Osama bin Laden," he said.
Bangladesh: Small radical groups supporting Osama bin Laden have bombed or burned down churches.
Pakistan: Christians depend on the protection of the government as several Muslim leaders have issued fatwas (religious decrees) to kill two Pakistani Christians for every Afghan Muslim who dies in the Anglo-American air raids.
There have also been attacks on Christians along the Afghan border, Marshall told UPI.
Egypt: The government discriminates against Christianity by financing the construction of mosques, while denying permits for the reconstruction of Christian sanctuaries, according to Marshall.
Saudi-Arabia: In the last two months, 15 Christian expatriates have been jailed for worshiping in private homes, and three have been tortured, according to the religious rights organization International Christian Concern.
In this or the last few centures I'm unable to think of a religion that would encourage this. If Islam wanted to be a "religion of peace" they could look to the Buddists
TheSage
12-01-2007, 10:44 AM
More proof that Islam and freedom of speech just don't mix.
Judaism and freedom of speech don't mix either.
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