It Seems To Be The Only US Interest Is Oil In Syria

[Kathianne]

Interesting announcement on Syria and Kurds this morning, a bit over 1/2 hour late and no questions.

"We'll see about the oil later, we've secured it."

'Erdogan, we have a very good relationship, may be meeting shortly.'

"Permanent cease fire we've established, well as permanent as that area..."

Not one mention of Russia or Putin. It's a total Russian win and US loss.

[Kathianne]

Nearly forgot, 'remove all sanctions on Turkey,' unless they do something we don't like.

Peace, like never before. Indeed.

[STTAB]

Interesting announcement on Syria and Kurds this morning, a bit over 1/2 hour late and no questions.

"We'll see about the oil later, we've secured it."

'Erdogan, we have a very good relationship, may be meeting shortly.'

"Permanent cease fire we've established, well as permanent as that area..."

Not one mention of Russia or Putin. It's a total Russian win and US loss.

What are you talking about? Thanks to changed energy policy in THIS country, our only concern about Syrian oil is keeping it out of the hands of ISIS.

And if you consider keeping American soldiers out of yet another war that has no bearing on our national security a loss, no one can help you.

[Kathianne]

What are you talking about? Thanks to changed energy policy in THIS country, our only concern about Syrian oil is keeping it out of the hands of ISIS.

And if you consider keeping American soldiers out of yet another war that has no bearing on our national security a loss, no one can help you.
Seems you didn't listen to the address or the President's statements over the past few days. No one can help you there, as you've already made up your mind.

[STTAB]

Seems you didn't listen to the address or the President's statements over the past few days. No one can help you there, as you've already made up your mind.


You're quite correct. I make up my own mind on every single issue. I don't just wake up in the morning and think "well I hate Trump, so I'll bitch about everything he does today, without knowing any facts"

[Kathianne]

You're quite correct. I make up my own mind on every single issue. I don't just wake up in the morning and think "well I hate Trump, so I'll bitch about everything he does today, without knowing any facts"
Neither do I, I formed my opinion on this topic after watching his address.

[Elessar]

It is already established that our energy output is far better than under Obama.

That eliminates our dependence on foreign sources, except in logistical trade.

Get over it liberals.

[Kathianne]

It is already established that our energy output is far better than under Obama.

That eliminates our dependence on foreign sources, except in logigical trade.

Get over it liberals.
Tell that to the President, he’s been saying such for 3days, including his addothis morning

[Gunny]

Abandoning an ally in the field is unacceptable and inexcusable. Especially an ally that has supported us unquestioningly for 28 years, supplying a whole lot of bodies. We did more for the Vietnamese who do a lot less for us.

The implication was clear, minus the double talk, the kurds would get something out of this in the end. And boy did they :rolleyes:

I could care less about the politics. This is a bullshit and dishonorable move.

[STTAB]

Abandoning an ally in the field is unacceptable and inexcusable. Especially an ally that has supported us unquestioningly for 28 years, supplying a whole lot of bodies. We did more for the Vietnamese who do a lot less for us.

The implication was clear, minus the double talk, the kurds would get something out of this in the end. And boy did they :rolleyes:

I could care less about the politics. This is a bullshit and dishonorable move.


I wouldn't say the Kurds have supported us unquestioningly Gunny. They have been harboring PKE forever.

[Gunny]

I wouldn't say the Kurds have supported us unquestioningly Gunny. They have been harboring PKE forever.The problem is we say "the kurds". WHICH faction? The YPG, the one with the most gracious leader thanking Trump is the faction that has raised the most Hell with Turkey. Have I mentioned I hate Turks? Had Turkey just pushed the kurds of whatever flavor out of Turkey and kept them out by whatever means I really couldn't have too much to say. But Erdogan used them as an excuse to invade Syria and ended up in confrontation with us.

Under no circumstances would I leave those allied to us behind because Erdogan is going to go after them sooner or later, regardless his lip service. And no way in Hell do I let it even remotely appear Erdogan pushed my ass even an inch. He needs to be bitch-slapped HARD.

NO, we shouldn't be there. I agree with that. But we are. That is fact. We go around making all these damned messes and then just leave places worse than when we arrived. Erdogan was right about one thing: We DID destabilize the region when we took out Saddam. GHWB's boys knew that as well as we in the military at the time and it was the reason we didn't "finish the job" as the left later liked to chant. I don't care what else Saddam was, he kept the region divided and off-balance and stood between all the factions that now have clear roads at each other.

But what signal have we sent? Again? WHO is dumb enough to ally with us? And why should we trust them to not do us as we have others?

Those kurds that have supported us are dead. Sooner or later, by one group or another. As soon as we're gone. And we are the ones leaving them to die.

[Kathianne]

and just for the record, the President is once again going on about 'the oil fields!' on Twitter. ISIS and maybe the Kurds could defend the oil fields! i.e., the US/Trump control the oil fields. Shaking things up, it's all about the oil?

[STTAB]

The problem is we say "the kurds". WHICH faction? The YPG, the one with the most gracious leader thanking Trump is the faction that has raised the most Hell with Turkey. Have I mentioned I hate Turks? Had Turkey just pushed the kurds of whatever flavor out of Turkey and kept them out by whatever means I really couldn't have too much to say. But Erdogan used them as an excuse to invade Syria and ended up in confrontation with us.

Under no circumstances would I leave those allied to us behind because Erdogan is going to go after them sooner or later, regardless his lip service. And no way in Hell do I let it even remotely appear Erdogan pushed my ass even an inch. He needs to be bitch-slapped HARD.

NO, we shouldn't be there. I agree with that. But we are. That is fact. We go around making all these damned messes and then just leave places worse than when we arrived. Erdogan was right about one thing: We DID destabilize the region when we took out Saddam. GHWB's boys knew that as well as we in the military at the time and it was the reason we didn't "finish the job" as the left later liked to chant. I don't care what else Saddam was, he kept the region divided and off-balance and stood between all the factions that now have clear roads at each other.

But what signal have we sent? Again? WHO is dumb enough to ally with us? And why should we trust them to not do us as we have others?

Those kurds that have supported us are dead. Sooner or later, by one group or another. As soon as we're gone. And we are the ones leaving them to die.


As you know, we agree about Saadam and we agree about Turkey, and we agree that we cause more problems than we solve by just going around the world overthrowing governments we don't like.

None of that however negates the Kurds own blame in this mess. By all accounts they KNEW Turkey was going to come into Syria to create a buffer zone against the PKE and were given time to leave the area and they refused.

Also there is the fact that I don't particularly worry about the US being a "good ally" to the rest of the world given the way the rest of the world shits on us whenever it benefits them. And that includes the Kurds , they are our ally as long as it benefits THEM.

As for what other countries will want to be our allies in the future? The answer is all of them, when it benefits THEM. Why are we supposed to be the only nation in the world which acts against its own best interests to help its allies Gunny? No other nation does that, no other nation in the history of the world has been shit on and spit on and kicked by the very same people they are defending with no benefit to themselves the way we do......

[Gunny]

As you know, we agree about Saadam and we agree about Turkey, and we agree that we cause more problems than we solve by just going around the world overthrowing governments we don't like.

None of that however negates the Kurds own blame in this mess. By all accounts they KNEW Turkey was going to come into Syria to create a buffer zone against the PKE and were given time to leave the area and they refused.

Also there is the fact that I don't particularly worry about the US being a "good ally" to the rest of the world given the way the rest of the world shits on us whenever it benefits them. And that includes the Kurds , they are our ally as long as it benefits THEM.

As for what other countries will want to be our allies in the future? The answer is all of them, when it benefits THEM. Why are we supposed to be the only nation in the world which acts against its own best interests to help its allies Gunny? No other nation does that, no other nation in the history of the world has been shit on and spit on and kicked by the very same people they are defending with no benefit to themselves the way we do......I guess I keep getting lost on the "we're supposed to be better than that" part. And REALLY lost on the "honor" part. But then, that's where I guess I'm the delusional one. We have no honor. It's just a word used to get people to do one's bidding.

In the meantime, I DO have honor and that sense of honor is offended. I don't much care what the other guy is doing. My sentiments are exactly the same when it comes to politics. But when MY SIDE is claiming the high road and THAT is what brought me to that side, then I want to see some given instead of just demanded of others.

We need to honor our commitments no matter how distasteful, but come up with a REAL endgame that comes with it. And quit making them if we aren't going to honor them. Sure the kurds were acting out of self interest, and in the beginning self defense. Who doesn't? But for us to egg them on when they're the ones supplying the majority of bodies, implying we will help them achieve what they want, then pull the rug out is just playing shitty pool to me.

[Kathianne]

I guess I keep getting lost on the "we're supposed to be better than that" part. And REALLY lost on the "honor" part. But then, that's where I guess I'm the delusional one. We have no honor. It's just a word used to get people to do one's bidding.

In the meantime, I DO have honor and that sense of honor is offended. I don't much care what the other guy is doing. My sentiments are exactly the same when it comes to politics. But when MY SIDE is claiming the high road and THAT is what brought me to that side, then I want to see some given instead of just demanded of others.

We need to honor our commitments no matter how distasteful, but come up with a REAL endgame that comes with it. And quit making them if we aren't going to honor them. Sure the kurds were acting out of self interest, and in the beginning self defense. Who doesn't? But for us to egg them on when they're the ones supplying the majority of bodies, implying we will help them achieve what they want, then pull the rug out is just playing shitty pool to me.
Careful Gunny, you’re sounding a bit like me. Next they’ll be calling you a stupid liberal. As if today’s crop of liberals had ideals.

[STTAB]

I guess I keep getting lost on the "we're supposed to be better than that" part. And REALLY lost on the "honor" part. But then, that's where I guess I'm the delusional one. We have no honor. It's just a word used to get people to do one's bidding.

In the meantime, I DO have honor and that sense of honor is offended. I don't much care what the other guy is doing. My sentiments are exactly the same when it comes to politics. But when MY SIDE is claiming the high road and THAT is what brought me to that side, then I want to see some given instead of just demanded of others.

We need to honor our commitments no matter how distasteful, but come up with a REAL endgame that comes with it. And quit making them if we aren't going to honor them. Sure the kurds were acting out of self interest, and in the beginning self defense. Who doesn't? But for us to egg them on when they're the ones supplying the majority of bodies, implying we will help them achieve what they want, then pull the rug out is just playing shitty pool to me.


The problem with this is of course elections get in the way. I mean should Trump, for example, feel honor bound to keep commitments Obama made if he feels those commitments aren't good for America? If so , then honor certainly would have dictated staying in the Paris Climate Accord , as well as the Iran Nuclear deal.

So we can see, it isn't quite so straight forward when you begin talking about honor in terms of policy. Our policy changed when Trump was elected.

And then there is of course the other aspect of honor, Turkey is a NATO ally. Ranking them above the Kurds when it comes to our obligations. Now , you and I hate that because we hate the Turks, but that doesn't change the fact , we have obligations to Turkey. The fact is if it came to it, we would actually be obligated to fight the Kurds if they got in a war with Turkey. Better to just say "we're out of it, you guys work it out ' isn't it?

[STTAB]

Careful Gunny, you’re sounding a bit like me. Next they’ll be calling you a stupid liberal. As if today’s crop of liberals had ideals.


For the record, I have NEVER called you stupid, nor a liberal.

Also, stupid liberal is an oxymoron , for not all stupid people are liberals but ALL liberals ARE stupid.

[Kathianne]

Right thread and this surprises anyone?

https://hotair.com/archives/ed-morrissey/2019/10/24/esper-say-turkey-invasion-seems-headed-wrong-direction/

[Kathianne]

https://apnews.com/1cf43c5caa27482a891262b6882c229e

[STTAB]

https://apnews.com/1cf43c5caa27482a891262b6882c229e


We're going to keep some troops in theater to make sure that neither ISIS nor Iran gets ahold of Syrian oil fields.

Trump wants the Kurds to move down there to help guard them.

This doesn't make sense to you?

[Kathianne]

We're going to keep some troops in theater to make sure that neither ISIS nor Iran gets ahold of Syrian oil fields.

Trump wants the Kurds to move down there to help guard them.

This doesn't make sense to you?
None of this has made sense to me. If this was some grand plan it could have been done in an orderly fashion, but I guess that would have been too hard.

Seriously folks that care beyond the next year should read.

[STTAB]

None of this has made sense to me. If this was some grand plan it could have been done in an orderly fashion, but I guess that would have been too hard.

Seriously folks that care beyond the next year should read.


I don't know why you are having such a hard time understanding. Trump doesn't want US forces protecting Kurds from Turks. End of story.

[Kathianne]

I don't know why you are having such a hard time understanding. Trump doesn't want US forces protecting Kurds from Turks. End of story.
Could have been done without all the chaos, but what would be the fun in that.

[STTAB]

Could have been done without all the chaos, but what would be the fun in that.


The chaos was caused not by us but by the Kurds. They were told "Turkey is coming in , the US is moving out, time to move back" and they refused to do so.

Are we to just keep troops in every country where people refuse to do what we want them to do because they don't want us to leave?

[pete311]

The chaos was caused not by us but by the Kurds. They were told "Turkey is coming in , the US is moving out, time to move back" and they refused to do so.

Are we to just keep troops in every country where people refuse to do what we want them to do because they don't want us to leave?

Time to move back? You act like there aren't 1.7 million of kurds established in towns and cities in the region. And Turkey moved in within 24 hours. You got to be kidding me. You are smarter than this.

[Kathianne]

The chaos was caused not by us but by the Kurds. They were told "Turkey is coming in , the US is moving out, time to move back" and they refused to do so.

Are we to just keep troops in every country where people refuse to do what we want them to do because they don't want us to leave?
You do understand all these “decisions “ threw the military and the Kurds for a loop.

I guess my original thoughts were right, the US President caved to Turkey.

[Gunny]

The problem with this is of course elections get in the way. I mean should Trump, for example, feel honor bound to keep commitments Obama made if he feels those commitments aren't good for America? If so , then honor certainly would have dictated staying in the Paris Climate Accord , as well as the Iran Nuclear deal.

So we can see, it isn't quite so straight forward when you begin talking about honor in terms of policy. Our policy changed when Trump was elected.

And then there is of course the other aspect of honor, Turkey is a NATO ally. Ranking them above the Kurds when it comes to our obligations. Now , you and I hate that because we hate the Turks, but that doesn't change the fact , we have obligations to Turkey. The fact is if it came to it, we would actually be obligated to fight the Kurds if they got in a war with Turkey. Better to just say "we're out of it, you guys work it out ' isn't it?I don't disagree with most of what you are saying. It is a logical argument.

It does not address the people themselves. The only people I would leave to the whim of that egomaniac Erdogan is the Democratic Party of the US and its constituents. I'm all for not being there. With a clean taste in my mouth.

These politicians allegedly, on paper at least, represent US. Somebody needs to get that memo to them. Don't go out there making a mess of everything, then making us look worse by just dropping the ball and walking off that to everyone else in the World represents ME/us/Americans. And that is EXACTLY what happens. Abandoning an ally in battle, in the field, is fairly incomprehensible to me.

This whole nutroll is why I have in the past called for just dumping ALL antiquated alliances in the shitcan and starting over. Hell, we probably have alliances on the books with countries that don't exist anymore.

Which does not address our policy of going into countries, using its people to do our dirty work, then leaving them on the tarmac.

[Kathianne]

More troops into Syria, to protect the oil fields from ISIS and sympathizers. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-military-convoy-crosses-border-northeastern-syria-n1072436

Turkey, ISIS using white phosphorus? https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/25/trump-syria-kurds-turkey-reported-war-crimes-lawmakers-press-pompeo-state-department-for-answers/

Erdogan, our NATO ally, warns Trump:

https://www.npr.org/2019/10/25/773188370/turkey-warns-u-s-against-hosting-syrian-kurdish-military-commander

[Gunny]

I've had to change my mind after sleeping on this. This is a lose-lose deal. There is no way short of military force the US and really the kurds win from this situation. I STILL feel that those who served us deserve "something", whatever that is:rolleyes:. The kurds want their own country carved out of the tri-border region of Iraq, Syria and Turkey.

Turkey is willing to go all-out war to make sure that never happens. I believe our track shows we aren't. When the going gets tough and/or 30 seconds of attention have passed, we get going. And leave a mess in our wake, and things worse off than they were. Any idealism HAS TO pay attention to THAT.

I'm not real pleased at how this has been brought before the American people. Piecemeal from different sources at different time. The President has not just come out with a clear, concise statement all at one time and place, with a real explanation that doesn't sound like "we-re abandoning the kurds and running".

[Gunny]

More troops into Syria, to protect the oil fields from ISIS and sympathizers. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-military-convoy-crosses-border-northeastern-syria-n1072436

Turkey, ISIS using white phosphorus? https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/25/trump-syria-kurds-turkey-reported-war-crimes-lawmakers-press-pompeo-state-department-for-answers/

Erdogan, our NATO ally, warns Trump:

https://www.npr.org/2019/10/25/773188370/turkey-warns-u-s-against-hosting-syrian-kurdish-military-commanderThis would be good place to man the f- up. Trump needs to tell Erdogan to piss up a rope telling us what we will and won't do and who we can and cannot talk to. f- him.

[Kathianne]

I've had to change my mind after sleeping on this. This is a lose-lose deal. There is no way short of military force the US and really the kurds win from this situation. I STILL feel that those who served us deserve "something", whatever that is:rolleyes:. The kurds want their own country carved out of the tri-border region of Iraq, Syria and Turkey.

Turkey is willing to go all-out war to make sure that never happens. I believe our track shows we aren't. When the going gets tough and/or 30 seconds of attention have passed, we get going. And leave a mess in our wake, and things worse off than they were. Any idealism HAS TO pay attention to THAT.

I'm not real pleased at how this has been brought before the American people. Piecemeal from different sources at different time. The President has not just come out with a clear, concise statement all at one time and place, with a real explanation that doesn't sound like "we-re abandoning the kurds and running".


This would be good place to man the f- up. Trump needs to tell Erdogan to piss up a rope telling us what we will and won't do and who we can and cannot talk to. f- him.


I agree with both of these posts. There is not going to be any 'winning' here, never was. That much I do agree with the President. Have we been in the ME too long, would be hard to argue any different.

The argument though is not about that, never was, despite the kerfuffle some tried to make it.

Truth is, the decision made to suddenly withdraw, after discussions/threats from a never do well supposed ally; led to the disparagement, chaos, needless deaths and now thousands more refugees created. If the President or State Department made it clear there was a plan, (including talks with Erdogan and Kurdish leaders), that the US was going to withdraw, after time for the Kurds to move and an orderly turn over was established. Would THAT have gone perfectly, probably not. It would have been much better than this though. Now we're trying to hold some rather small-not of our interests, oil fields. Supposedly leaving it down the road for the Kurds to huddle around. In order to do this, we're moving back troops that just pulled out, with Turkey being an unknown danger to them.

[Gunny]

I agree with both of these posts. There is not going to be any 'winning' here, never was. That much I do agree with the President. Have we been in the ME too long, would be hard to argue any different.

The argument though is not about that, never was, despite the kerfuffle some tried to make it.

Truth is, the decision made to suddenly withdraw, after discussions/threats from a never do well supposed ally; led to the disparagement, chaos, needless deaths and now thousands more refugees created. If the President or State Department made it clear there was a plan, (including talks with Erdogan and Kurdish leaders), that the US was going to withdraw, after time for the Kurds to move and an orderly turn over was established. Would THAT have gone perfectly, probably not. It would have been much better than this though. Now we're trying to hold some rather small-not of our interests, oil fields. Supposedly leaving it down the road for the Kurds to huddle around. In order to do this, we're moving back troops that just pulled out, with Turkey being an unknown danger to them.Who exactly are we supposed to be leaving something to? The kurds are a sect, not a Nation. And how long does anyone think any agreement on the other side's part is going to last past our leaving?

Erdogan has branded kurds terrorists. I guess he has as much right to we do. Just something else he's throwing in our face. This is ALL PR for the fat Turk.

You know who I bet is facepalming himself right now? Putin. Stupid Turk. We have the Americans gone and your ego has to keep getting in the way :rolleyes:

[Kathianne]

Who exactly are we supposed to be leaving something to? The kurds are a sect, not a Nation. And how long does anyone think any agreement on the other side's part is going to last past our leaving?

Erdogan has branded kurds terrorists. I guess he has as much right to we do. Just something else he's throwing in our face. This is ALL PR for the fat Turk.

You know who I bet is facepalming himself right now? Putin. Stupid Turk. We have the Americans gone and your ego has to keep getting in the way :rolleyes:

You're saying what I've been saying since it started. At least you got some potty training in, along with KP chores, while I spun my wheels. :slap::beer:

[Jenna]

What are you talking about? Thanks to changed energy policy in THIS country, our only concern about Syrian oil is keeping it out of the hands of ISIS.

And if you consider keeping American soldiers out of yet another war that has no bearing on our national security a loss, no one can help you.

Thousands of ISIS fighters are now free in north-western Syria. They are raping and murdering women and children. They aren't heading to the oil fields of Syria, they're metastasizing like cancer and the US and Europe will be a lot less safe for it. The US only had about 50 or so US strategic forces on the NE border with the Kurds -- who were doing the shooting and fighting, not our US military.

But how many US soldiers are being trucked into Syria to protect their oil fields? Here's the answer from a U.S. official; The oil-field protection plan calls for several hundreds U.S. troops to return to Syria but “less than a battalion,” U.S. officials said. A battalion in most U.S. units numbers 800 to 1,000 troops. The question to ask ourselves is why are US troops being sent there to protect Syria's oil fields since Syria is an adversary to the US and guilty of humanitarian abuses of their own people?

To sum this up, I have a question and others should have as well. Why did we remove 50 +/- military strategic forces who were there to support the Kurds because the Kurds were killing and capturing ISIS, this decision has thrust the region into turmoil and threatens the existence of a half million Kurds, then turn around days later and send over 500 of our US military to Syria -an adversary whom we also dropped bombs on --- to protect their oil reserves? That's the question I pose to anyone willing to answer.

[LongTermGuy]

Thousands of ISIS fighters are now free in north-western Syria. They are raping and murdering women and children. They aren't heading to the oil fields of Syria, they're metastasizing like cancer and the US and Europe will be a lot less safe for it. The US only had about 50 or so US strategic forces on the NE border with the Kurds -- who were doing the shooting and fighting, not our US military.

But how many US soldiers are being trucked into Syria to protect their oil fields? Here's the answer from a U.S. official; The oil-field protection plan calls for several hundreds U.S. troops to return to Syria but “less than a battalion,” U.S. officials said. A battalion in most U.S. units numbers 800 to 1,000 troops. The question to ask ourselves is why are US troops being sent there to protect Syria's oil fields since Syria is an adversary to the US and guilty of humanitarian abuses of their own people?

To sum this up, I have a question and others should have as well. Why did we remove 50 +/- military strategic forces who were there to support the Kurds because the Kurds were killing and capturing ISIS, this decision has thrust the region into turmoil and threatens the existence of a half million Kurds, then turn around days later and send over 500 of our US military to Syria -an adversary whom we also dropped bombs on --- to protect their oil reserves? That's the question I pose to anyone willing to answer.


Unless you or anyone has an inside "Link" to the White House...The President..his Generals and advisers who are more up to date than you or any outsider all the left can do is speculate and spew more "Deceit" ..twist and Trump hate....Keeping an eye on the oil fields and safety of our Troops in a never ending war (unless Nukes are involved) is important...

[Jenna]

Unless you or anyone has an inside "Link" to the White House...The President..his Generals and advisers who are more up to date than you or any outsider all the left can do is speculate and spew more "Deceit" ..twist and Trump hate....Keeping an eye on the oil fields and safety of our Troops in a never ending war (unless Nukes are involved) is important...

Compared to oil rich countries like Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Canada and the U.S., Syria really doesn't have that much oil. Phosphates are the major minerals exploited in Syria. According to estimates Syria has around 1,700 million tons of phosphate reserves. It might be just a coincidence but I saw the news today, a hospital where Kurds were laying in hospital beds with the skin on their faces, arms and legs were peeled right off from chemicals used against them. It's suspected they had been attacked with chemical weapons - white phosphorus. Chemical weapons are a banned weapon of war. Poisonous or other gases, and of bacteriological methods of Warfare, usually called the Geneva Protocol, is a treaty prohibiting the use of chemical and biological weapons in international armed conflicts. For that matter, why are we protecting Saudi Arabia's oil? Saudi Arabia buys everything from someone else, technology, pharmacies and military mite.

Do you agree with Trump withdrawing support for the Kurds while sending hundreds of US military into eastern Syria to protect Assad's oil? Why is the U.S. monitoring and protecting the oil fields of Bashar al-Asad who is a ruthless dictator, an ememy to the U.S., who has used chemical weapons on his own people? I really don't care how 'up to date' Trump's generals are. This type of warfare the U.S. is conducting is using our US military as nothing more than paid mercenaries. Why are our US military in Saudi Arabia protecting their oil fields, or are they also being used as paid mercenaries fighting in Yemen?

[Elessar]

You have a lot of "WHYS" little lady. Why don't you write to the U.N. and get straight answers?

The USA is not the world's police force but has been used as such far too often. That is the function
of the useless UN. Protecting and assisting allies is another matter. They do the same for us.

[Gunny]

Compared to oil rich countries like Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Canada and the U.S., Syria really doesn't have that much oil. Phosphates are the major minerals exploited in Syria. According to estimates Syria has around 1,700 million tons of phosphate reserves. It might be just a coincidence but I saw the news today, a hospital where Kurds were laying in hospital beds with the skin on their faces, arms and legs were peeled right off from chemicals used against them. It's suspected they had been attacked with chemical weapons - white phosphorus. Chemical weapons are a banned weapon of war. Poisonous or other gases, and of bacteriological methods of Warfare, usually called the Geneva Protocol, is a treaty prohibiting the use of chemical and biological weapons in international armed conflicts. For that matter, why are we protecting Saudi Arabia's oil? Saudi Arabia buys everything from someone else, technology, pharmacies and military mite.

Do you agree with Trump withdrawing support for the Kurds while sending hundreds of US military into eastern Syria to protect Assad's oil? Why is the U.S. monitoring and protecting the oil fields of Bashar al-Asad who is a ruthless dictator, an ememy to the U.S., who has used chemical weapons on his own people? I really don't care how 'up to date' Trump's generals are. This type of warfare the U.S. is conducting is using our US military as nothing more than paid mercenaries. Why are our US military in Saudi Arabia protecting their oil fields, or are they also being used as paid mercenaries fighting in Yemen?

Don't know where you've been hiding, but the US military IS paid mercenaries. White phosphorous is a marking agent, not a weapon. Using it as a weapon is what is unlawful. All you have to do is prove it was used as a weapon and not spotting artillery. We know it was but again, prove it. To who?

Now that we got THAT out of the way ...

It does not make sense to re-deploy troops to "protect" Syria's oil fields when it's been made rather clear Putin isn't going to let anyone upset his gravy train. It's keeping a presence and little else.

Now here is YOUR question: Why should the US risk war with Turkey and Syria-which-means-Russia, and Iran, established sovereign Nations with real boundaries to recreate an already failed Nation? Just like the Pali's, the kurds should have chose their WWI allies more wisely.

The kurds have an autonomous region in Iraq as a result of the Iraq War. That satisfies my requirement (which doesn't mean a whole lot) to give them something for helping us. The US should have done its own dirty work in Syria instead of the usual "adviser" BS.

Casualties of war happen. Especially when one is going against the established Nation and its allies. I personally hope Erdogan chokes on his own tongue a minute ago but that doesn't alter the fact kurds have been disrupting a portion of the country he is responsible for.

[Gunny]

You're saying what I've been saying since it started. At least you got some potty training in, along with KP chores, while I spun my wheels. :slap::beer:Which STILL has me lost in the sauce about what's going on but I'm working on playing catch up :)

[Drummond]

Thousands of ISIS fighters are now free in north-western Syria. They are raping and murdering women and children. They aren't heading to the oil fields of Syria, they're metastasizing like cancer and the US and Europe will be a lot less safe for it. The US only had about 50 or so US strategic forces on the NE border with the Kurds -- who were doing the shooting and fighting, not our US military.

But how many US soldiers are being trucked into Syria to protect their oil fields? Here's the answer from a U.S. official; The oil-field protection plan calls for several hundreds U.S. troops to return to Syria but “less than a battalion,” U.S. officials said. A battalion in most U.S. units numbers 800 to 1,000 troops. The question to ask ourselves is why are US troops being sent there to protect Syria's oil fields since Syria is an adversary to the US and guilty of humanitarian abuses of their own people?

To sum this up, I have a question and others should have as well. Why did we remove 50 +/- military strategic forces who were there to support the Kurds because the Kurds were killing and capturing ISIS, this decision has thrust the region into turmoil and threatens the existence of a half million Kurds, then turn around days later and send over 500 of our US military to Syria -an adversary whom we also dropped bombs on --- to protect their oil reserves? That's the question I pose to anyone willing to answer.

I'm far from properly 'up to speed' on this (& I'm a Brit looking at this as an 'outsider' would, anyway) .. but .. I can't help but wonder what possible effective, worthwhile function a mere 50 troops served, or could serve ? What was their 'all-important, pivotal, indispensable' role .. one achievable by just fifty of them ?

Their withdrawal proved significant, but merely for adverse propaganda purposes, so far as I can see. Which begs the question: if we accept that their only real significance to those seizing on that fact is to weave a web of propaganda, doesn't that also make spin-off presumptions also 'suspect' ?

I've heard the 'It's All About The Oil' argument before. It was trotted out, tiresomely, over the old Saddam issue. Who propagated that interpreted motivation ? Why .. THE LEFT, of course.

So when I see that argument appear time and again over other conflicts and issues, I wonder at its source ... and veracity.

[Kathianne]

I'm far from properly 'up to speed' on this (& I'm a Brit looking at this as an 'outsider' would, anyway) .. but .. I can't help but wonder what possible effective, worthwhile function a mere 50 troops served, or could serve ? What was their 'all-important, pivotal, indispensable' role .. one achievable by just fifty of them ?

Their withdrawal proved significant, but merely for adverse propaganda purposes, so far as I can see. Which begs the question: if we accept that their only real significance to those seizing on that fact is to weave a web of propaganda, doesn't that also make spin-off presumptions also 'suspect' ?

I've heard the 'It's All About The Oil' argument before. It was trotted out, tiresomely, over the old Saddam issue. Who propagated that interpreted motivation ? Why .. THE LEFT, of course.

So when I see that argument appear time and again over other conflicts and issues, I wonder at its source ... and veracity.

I've given multiple links that are quoting our president. It's not 'us' that is saying it, but the president. Because of the questioning, now the administration is saying it's to prevent an income stream to ISIS, if they should reconstitute. Our president said that nearly all the escapees had been recaptured, his secretary of defense says, 'not quite right.'

[STTAB]

I don't disagree with most of what you are saying. It is a logical argument.

It does not address the people themselves. The only people I would leave to the whim of that egomaniac Erdogan is the Democratic Party of the US and its constituents. I'm all for not being there. With a clean taste in my mouth.

These politicians allegedly, on paper at least, represent US. Somebody needs to get that memo to them. Don't go out there making a mess of everything, then making us look worse by just dropping the ball and walking off that to everyone else in the World represents ME/us/Americans. And that is EXACTLY what happens. Abandoning an ally in battle, in the field, is fairly incomprehensible to me.

This whole nutroll is why I have in the past called for just dumping ALL antiquated alliances in the shitcan and starting over. Hell, we probably have alliances on the books with countries that don't exist anymore.

Which does not address our policy of going into countries, using its people to do our dirty work, then leaving them on the tarmac.


Theoretically I agree with, but as a historian I must point out that we do it all the time. This isn't something Trump invented. There were allies who watched the last helicopter fly out of Saigon. There are allies right now in both Iraq and Afghanistan who were told they would be brought to the US after helping us years ago, but shit happens.

As far as that goes, the Taliban was created from remnants of US allies who fought the Russians in Afghanistan and then we abandoned them when the Russians left Afghanistan.

That's the nature of international politics and temporary allies. "The Kurds" isn't a country that we have an official treaty with. They are just an ethnic group inside a country that helped us defeat a common enemy. Nothing more, nothing less.

That doesn't mean I believe we should just stand by and watch them get slaughtered, but it DOES mean then when an actual nation that we have a treaty with has a legitimate national security concern and they are going to take measures that might put our soldiers at risk if we don't get out of the way, that we should get our soldiers out of the way.

Do you REALLY want to risk your brothers and sisters fighting a NATO ally , even a shitty one like Turkey?

The reality here is the Kurds were given notice that Turkey was coming into Syria to establish a buffer zone between Turkey and Syria and that they needed to move beyond this zone and they just didnt.

This was not a case of we just the left the Kurds and Turkey surprise attacked them as soon as our 50 soldiers left. This was a planned exit so that Turkey could come in establish a buffer zone and take over securing the border region against terrorists, including Iran. The Kurds refused to cooperate.

Plus the aforementioned fact that the PKE exists within the Kurds to begin with and they do little to nothing to root them out.