US Sells Out Kurds To Turkey

[Kathianne]

Great message for future allies in bad neighborhoods. Kurds did most of the work getting rid of ISIS in Iraq/Syria, the so called 'destruction of Caliphate.' Now we let Turkey take over not only the prisoners we took, but overrun the Kurds.

Wow, just great foreign policy and makes all the blood & treasure that was spent a waste.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-turkeys-syria-invasion-trump-pelosi-schiff-impeached

[pete311]

When Kilmeade goes against Trump you know it's bad. This is a distraction attempt and it's gonna work because this is absolutely heinous. Make the kurds do all the work aganst ISIS and then abandon them to be slaughtered. Makes me absolutely sick. I've been to Irbil and the kurds are good US friendly people (yes I know only the border Kurds will be killed).

[STTAB]

Great message for future allies in bad neighborhoods. Kurds did most of the work getting rid of ISIS in Iraq/Syria, the so called 'destruction of Caliphate.' Now we let Turkey take over not only the prisoners we took, but overrun the Kurds.

Wow, just great foreign policy and makes all the blood & treasure that was spent a waste.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-turkeys-syria-invasion-trump-pelosi-schiff-impeached


I know Trump wants out of Syria altogether, but this is wrong.

[LongTermGuy]

They been fighting with each other forever ...AND....(just to be clear)koran readers will always fight among themselves...Take the troops out and just leave some "eyes and ears" there and bomb them whenever need be (setting them back)

We had troops there long enough......They have lied and screwed us long enough while taking our money and shooting our troops in the back of the head (letting us think they were our friends and fighting along with us)....We all heard and read the stories)!!!


**Dont let the.... (anti-Trump looking for a story haters fool you) we already know their end-game...


*Just an opinion "Ladies" and Gentlemen :salute:

[Kathianne]

The Kurds did most of the fighting and have mostly taken command of the isis prisoners. We are selling them out to the Turks

[pete311]

The Kurds did most of the fighting and have mostly taken command of the isis prisoners. We are selling them out to the Turks

Let's be clear, if given the green light, it will be genocide. This is a wet dream for Turkey.

[STTAB]

They been fighting with each other forever ...AND....(just to be clear)koran readers will always fight among themselves...Take the troops out and just leave some "eyes and ears" there and bomb them whenever need be (setting them back)

We had troops there long enough......They have lied and screwed us long enough while taking our money and shooting our troops in the back of the head (letting us think they were our friends and fighting along with us)....We all heard and read the stories)!!!


**Dont let the.... (anti-Trump looking for a story haters fool you) we already know their end-game...


*Just an opinion "Ladies" and Gentlemen :salute:


Just a stupid opinion. The Kurds have never screwed us. And even if they had , we absolutely have the power to keep them from being slaughtered by the Turks.

And that is exactly what it would be, a slaughter.

[STTAB]

Let's be clear, if given the green light, it will be genocide. This is a wet dream for Turkey.

Let's be clear. You don't care about the Kurds. If Trump said "I'm sending in 5,000 troops to make it clear to Turkey that we won't stand by and watch them slaughter the Kurds" you would be railing about that too.

[Noir]

I don’t believe what I’m reading. Has trump given any sort of explanation as to why he is abandoning the Kurds? The manor in which it is being done would seem to be unwanted by both interventionists and anti-interventionists.

[jimnyc]

I'm 100% against, I was never big on bailing. Go in it to win it, or don't go in at all.

But what is the plan here? We can't go to war with Turkey, and we can't stay there forever. So if we stay to protect the Kurds, then what is the plan and when do the troops get to go home? Or is it stay and protect forever? I need to know what the alternate plans are.

[jimnyc]

Let's be clear. You don't care about the Kurds. If Trump said "I'm sending in 5,000 troops to make it clear to Turkey that we won't stand by and watch them slaughter the Kurds" you would be railing about that too.

Yup, always bad if we do ANYTHING militarily. Then we need to get out of here and there. But then if we DO leave anywhere, it's a complaint. So yeah, I agree, there is no care here about the Kurds, this is more about getting to trash Trump for something to him.

[STTAB]

Yup, always bad if we do ANYTHING militarily. Then we need to get out of here and there. But then if we DO leave anywhere, it's a complaint. So yeah, I agree, there is no care here about the Kurds, this is more about getting to trash Trump for something to him.

You couldn't convince me that we couldn't pressure the Turks to leave the Kurds be without having troops in Syria. That's what I don't get.

[jimnyc]

You couldn't convince me that we couldn't pressure the Turks to leave the Kurds be without having troops in Syria. That's what I don't get.

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert in that area or to have the answers. I do know that we can't have another war, and we can't stay there forever. But we also shouldn't be getting allies killed, and also our troops should always come number one. So I don't like the decision but I don't know the answers. The left will pretend to have them here, but they don't. But I also don't think we should leave until we have an answer at this point.

[STTAB]

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert in that area or to have the answers. I do know that we can't have another war, and we can't stay there forever. But we also shouldn't be getting allies killed, and also our troops should always come number one. So I don't like the decision but I don't know the answers. The left will pretend to have them here, but they don't. But I also don't think we should leave until we have an answer at this point.
'

If Trump just leaves the Kurds to be slaughtered, this will be another of those unforced errors Im always going on about.

Honestly, I'd be surprised if some asshole judge doesn't issue an order saying Trump can't withdraw US troops from Syria anyway.

BTW from a strategic US standpoint keeping say 5,000 US troops in Syria makes a hell of a lot more sense than keeping ANY US troops in Germany. I'm just saying.

[NightTrain]

Seems there's lots of hand-wringing and moaning this morning over Trump's wish to pull out of Syria. Hysterical posts about abandoning the Kurds to the meat grinder are pretty silly, IMO, and definitely premature.

I'm quite sure that there will be safeguards protecting the Kurds when we do eventually pull out. And let's be realistic here - we will have to pull out of that country at some point. We still have reach into Syria any time we want it with air assets - has everyone forgotten the strikes that mauled Syria despite the vaunted Russian antiaircraft defenses?

We have real time recon on the area and the ability to devastate anyone misbehaving, without having boots on the ground as a meat shield.

The Kurds have a large population in northern Iraq, right across the border. If I were a Kurd, I think I'd probably head that way if I were feeling a bit vulnerable - but the Iraqi Kurds are safe despite not having our soldiers acting as their meat shield - the threat of our aviation forces is good enough to keep the local savages from attacking them.

As far as the ISIS prisoners go, I say let the Turks have them with our compliments. I'm quite sure that they'll be eliminated with gusto and good riddance.

So before everyone goes too much further with hysteria, how about we wait to see what the President has planned for a withdrawal before jumping to conclusions?

[pete311]

Let's be clear. You don't care about the Kurds. If Trump said "I'm sending in 5,000 troops to make it clear to Turkey that we won't stand by and watch them slaughter the Kurds" you would be railing about that too.

false

[STTAB]

false

You have zero credibility here Pete, and with good reason.

I suspect that is the story of your life.

[NightTrain]

Let's be clear. You don't care about the Kurds. If Trump said "I'm sending in 5,000 troops to make it clear to Turkey that we won't stand by and watch them slaughter the Kurds" you would be railing about that too.


false


He is 100% absolutely correct, Pete, and you know it.

If Trump singlehandedly cured cancer tomorrow, you'd rail that he's attacking the medical and drug industry.

The funny thing about you is that you somehow think that your transparency isn't completely obvious to everyone. The only person you're fooling is yourself.

[jimnyc]

He is 100% absolutely correct, Pete, and you know it.

If Trump singlehandedly cured cancer tomorrow, you'd rail that he's attacking the medical and drug industry.

The funny thing about you is that you somehow think that your transparency isn't completely obvious to everyone. The only person you're fooling is yourself.

I don't even think he's smart enough to fool himself.

Basically though, he's a partisan hack of epic proportions. Hell, we all lean where we lean, there's no doubt of that. Most here lean to the right. But none other than petey are 100% in the tank for the left and can find 0% wrong with not only any lefty in charge, but he can find no wrong really with any lefty or any lefty involved activity.

And while we all lean, we all still see the wrongdoing on the right and discuss it mostly. And most of us will condemn extreme activity and aren't afraid to say 'adios' to someone on the right nailed by the law.

Of course we'll hear a 'false' on that one too - but the facts and posts here speak otherwise. Kinda like Toasty Joe.

[icansayit]

Now is your chance. Tell all of us information starved, deplorable, American citizens.

How much time have you served in Any Foriegn Service...Like the State Department?

How much of your life has been dedicated to the Department of Defense of the U.S.A.?

How many Elected positions have you held in the U.S.A. of other nations?

When did you get your degree of any kind on International Dealings with Enemy, or Ally nations?

When you have told us all of your qualifications. Then tell us How YOU are smarter than anyone in Government from either of the THREE? Executive, Judicial, or Legislative branches of our Government whom YOU feel much more intelligent than. And explain WHY aren't you a member of any of those 3 Branches...before coming here to tell us anything?

[Kathianne]

Yup, always bad if we do ANYTHING militarily. Then we need to get out of here and there. But then if we DO leave anywhere, it's a complaint. So yeah, I agree, there is no care here about the Kurds, this is more about getting to trash Trump for something to him.
Ummm, I care about the Kurds. I also care about the translators that served good.

What you you all are now in favor of is use whoever and leave ‘me. This is what everyone was up in arms about when Obama did it. Between that and this we have earned a reputation for just not supporting those that served us. That’s well earned now.

[jimnyc]

Ummm, I care about the Kurds. I also care about the translators that served good.

What you you all are now in favor of is use whoever and leave ‘me. This is what everyone was up in arms about when Obama did it. Between that and this we have earned a reputation for just not supporting those that served us. That’s well earned now.

My reply was to Sttab, replying to Pete.

And whoa - where did I say I was in favor of this? I clearly said I was against it. Don't get mad, or put something on me, just because you thought my reply was to you! :) :)

I think you are one of the rare few that stays spot on with their stances pretty much no matter what. Pete is NOT that person.

And while I am a Trump supporter, and I believe the left will flip flop on anything to dump on him - I am against this. I still think we need to leave, but an alternate plan of sorts should have been put into play, something to more help our allies, the kurds, to at least prevent any onslaught. Of course any area should fend for themselves, I don't believe we should seek help and an agreement and then ultimately bail without a plan.

[Kathianne]

My reply was to Sttab, replying to Pete.

And whoa - where did I say I was in favor of this? I clearly said I was against it. Don't get mad, or put something on me, just because you thought my reply was to you! :) :)

I think you are one of the rare few that stays spot on with their stances pretty much no matter what. Pete is NOT that person.

And while I am a Trump supporter, and I believe the left will flip flop on anything to dump on him - I am against this. I still think we need to leave, but an alternate plan of sorts should have been put into play, something to more help our allies, the kurds, to at least prevent any onslaught. Of course any area should fend for themselves, I don't believe we should seek help and an agreement and then ultimately bail without a plan.
I’m pretty sure the only happy man here is the Turkish strongman.

I see see the President has been tweeting up a storm. Yeah, he’ll take on Turkey if they go after the Kurds. Uh Huh.

[jimnyc]

I’m pretty sure the only happy man here is the Turkish strongman.

I see see the President has been tweeting up a storm. Yeah, he’ll take on Turkey if they go after the Kurds. Uh Huh.

Turkish strongman, ISIS & a whole shitload of democrats are happy about this. And Trump seems hell bent on keeping and making enemies pretty much around the time he needs them most. Perhaps he is in fact upholding a campaign promise, of which he is doing. But there should still be a plan of sorts, IMO. I understand that there has to be a cut the ties moment and let them fend for themselves, but is that time right now? Doesn't sound like it for sure.

[pete311]

Trump had the kurds dismantle their defenses over the past year. It will be genocide. And people wonder why they chant "death to america" when we pull this shit. Just imagine you're a kurd with a family in that region. We are giving a new generation of terrorists new motivation and when the next war comes, we won't have allies in the region.

[jimnyc]

Trump had the kurds dismantle their defenses over the past year. It will be genocide. And people wonder why they chant "death to america" when we pull this shit. Just imagine you're a kurd with a family in that region. We are giving a new generation of terrorists new motivation and when the next war comes, we won't have allies in the region.

Where were you when Obama didn't want to help the kurds for so long? I don't see your complaints from back then? Obama's red line in Syria as well? He was all talk and no help. So please, don't act like you're all care suddenly and it's all about Trump.

[icansayit]

Like anyone who has ever had a SECURITY CLEARANCE from the U.S. Govt. None of the information has been Declassified, IF, We remember any of it!

Nonetheless. Because someone has an opinion, idea, or suggestion pertaining to UNKNOWN, KNOWNS. Unless You have access to the ACTUAL KNOWN. You can only surmise or suggest what you THINK YOU KNOW, without having the actual facts to substantiate, with any proof, of what the Honest Facts Really Are.

If that is too Deep for anyone to understand. Then STOP pretending you know...What you Do Not Know.

So, here is a reminder EVERYONE who wants to be a Monday Morning Quarterback in Politics...should remember.


https://www.fatrank.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/You-Dont-Know-What-You-Dont-Know.jpg



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAnKdq5Yty8

[NightTrain]

Trump had the kurds dismantle their defenses over the past year.

No, he didn't.


It will be genocide. And people wonder why they chant "death to america"

Those are Iranians, genius. They're a different flavor of Arab and they've been doing it since the Ayatollah seized power.

[pete311]

No, he didn't.



Those are Iranians, genius. They're a different flavor of Arab and they've been doing it since the Ayatollah seized power.
They as in general Arabs. They haven’t in the past but will not when turkey butchers their families.

yes we compelled them to dismantle their defenses https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjmyOOuvIvlAhUkmeAKHTlkCKIQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fworl d%2Fmiddle-east%2Fus-abandonment-of-syria-s-kurds-risks-bitter-fighting-1.4042627&psig=AOvVaw3gVBuCv2tTrdmaVl4NqkNW&ust=1570583165823084

[LongTermGuy]

"For once Americans are coming home!!....its seems.."to some" interests of foreigners are far more important than our own interests (They tell us it is Immoral to look out for our own people)....!"



Pay attention:

Watch for at least 6 minutes...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf1NDKMfaHc

[icansayit]

Everyone who is complaining about this now....formerly complained by asking "WHY SHOULD OUR TROOPS STAY THERE?"

Like everything else our President does. "Damned if he does, Damned if he doesn't."

Once again...."NEWSFLASH" Entire World Now So Happy Donald Trump Found Cure For 'AIDS', and 'CANCER". Except for the RADICAL, LEFTIST, PROGRESSIVE, LIBERAL, DEMOCRAT, SOCIALIST, COMMUNIST AMERICANS who Blame the President for WAITING SO LONG. Making the "CURES" a typical POLITICAL PLOY to win votes from the MELTING SNOWFLAKES.

[LongTermGuy]

Everyone who is complaining about this now....formerly complained by asking "WHY SHOULD OUR TROOPS STAY THERE?"

Like everything else our President does. "Damned if he does, Damned if he doesn't."

Once again...."NEWSFLASH" Entire World Now So Happy Donald Trump Found Cure For 'AIDS', and 'CANCER". Except for the RADICAL, LEFTIST, PROGRESSIVE, LIBERAL, DEMOCRAT, SOCIALIST, COMMUNIST AMERICANS who Blame the President for WAITING SO LONG. Making the "CURES" a typical POLITICAL PLOY to win votes from the MELTING SNOWFLAKES.


Amen brother.....:clap:

[Kathianne]

No, he didn't.



Those are Iranians, genius. They're a different flavor of Arab and they've been doing it since the Ayatollah seized power.

I agree with the second point on Iran, not the first. Iran and Turkey have been acting much like the enemy of my enemy for quite awhile now.

As for the first point, the issue of the Kurds and the reaction of US military and Presidential advisers, now gone, were all that stood in the way from this happening nearly a year ago:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey/syrian-surprise-how-trumps-phone-call-changed-the-war-idUSKCN1OR0PW

[Kathianne]

Gunny posted a tad regarding the last time, not much response. Likely the holidays and the dust up it was causing within the White House:

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?65066-Kurds-vs-Turks&highlight=Turkey+Syria+Kurds

[STTAB]

After doing more research into this , I realize that my initial knee jerk reaction was wrong. We're talking about 50 US soldiers being brought home. FIFTY . Fifty fucking people aren't keeping Turkey from wiping out the Kurds. I believe Trump when he said last night that we would protect the Kurds with or without our troops being in Syria.

50 soldiers isn't a deterrent.

[Abbey Marie]

Seems there's lots of hand-wringing and moaning this morning over Trump's wish to pull out of Syria. Hysterical posts about abandoning the Kurds to the meat grinder are pretty silly, IMO, and definitely premature.

I'm quite sure that there will be safeguards protecting the Kurds when we do eventually pull out. And let's be realistic here - we will have to pull out of that country at some point. We still have reach into Syria any time we want it with air assets - has everyone forgotten the strikes that mauled Syria despite the vaunted Russian antiaircraft defenses?

We have real time recon on the area and the ability to devastate anyone misbehaving, without having boots on the ground as a meat shield.

The Kurds have a large population in northern Iraq, right across the border. If I were a Kurd, I think I'd probably head that way if I were feeling a bit vulnerable - but the Iraqi Kurds are safe despite not having our soldiers acting as their meat shield - the threat of our aviation forces is good enough to keep the local savages from attacking them.

As far as the ISIS prisoners go, I say let the Turks have them with our compliments. I'm quite sure that they'll be eliminated with gusto and good riddance.

So before everyone goes too much further with hysteria, how about we wait to see what the President has planned for a withdrawal before jumping to conclusions?


The voice of calmness and reason, as usual.

[pete311]

After doing more research into this , I realize that my initial knee jerk reaction was wrong. We're talking about 50 US soldiers being brought home. FIFTY . Fifty fucking people aren't keeping Turkey from wiping out the Kurds. I believe Trump when he said last night that we would protect the Kurds with or without our troops being in Syria.

50 soldiers isn't a deterrent.

um sure it is, kill 50 US soldiers and we go to war with Turkey, no? btw, I can't find a source for how many we have there. What is yours?

[Abbey Marie]

After doing more research into this , I realize that my initial knee jerk reaction was wrong. We're talking about 50 US soldiers being brought home. FIFTY . Fifty fucking people aren't keeping Turkey from wiping out the Kurds. I believe Trump when he said last night that we would protect the Kurds with or without our troops being in Syria.

50 soldiers isn't a deterrent.

Whether or not this is exactly right, we all need to remember that the msm wants to whip up anti- Trump frenzy every day. I hope it is true.

[STTAB]

um sure it is, kill 50 US soldiers and we go to war with Turkey, no? btw, I can't find a source for how many we have there. What is yours?


Pete, if 50 fucking soldiers is a deterrent then why do we have thousands in South Korea, should only need 50 there......

[Kathianne]

Pete, if 50 fucking soldiers is a deterrent then why do we have thousands in South Korea, should only need 50 there......
Personally I think we should take the 50k out of South Korea, now there's an area that we've been in forever and it certainly seems that South and North want to be one and join the Chinazis. Let them.

South and North are eroding our really important relationship with Japan. Build that up, add Taiwan, Hong Kong, Vietnam.

[Abbey Marie]

Sometimes the news and threads like this make me feel like I’m in the middle of the game Diplomacy, but none none of the alliances are working.

[Kathianne]

Sometimes the news and threads like this make me feel like I’m in the middle of the game Diplomacy, but none none of the alliances are working.

While I'm so furious with the Democrats behavior I'd nearly vote for President Trump to spite them, his foreign policy, unlike his speeches in foreign locations, leaves me cold. I think he's a disaster on the foreign/diplomatic fronts.

[jimnyc]

I had read 25 last night. Perhaps 50 I read here now. Makes no difference. If that's all that it was that was removed - then I change my stance. 50 soldiers are not going to magically defend an entire area, and defend the entire kurds area. We can do more than that, much more, from various air support. Also in many other ways. But no, removing such a small amount will not be the cause of some widespread slaughter of people. I still disagree with leaving without a plan - but I'm not on the inside. Perhaps with that small of an amount, there is a plan.

But the way I see this has changed dramatically. I had visions of troop withdrawals by thousands, quickly, and then a final pullout. NOT the case apparently, just a few truckloads.


50 soldiers - https://nypost.com/2019/10/08/trump-says-us-hasnt-abandoned-kurds-despite-pulling-troops-out-of-syria/

[FakeNewsSux]

While I'm so furious with the Democrats behavior I'd nearly vote for President Trump to spite them, his foreign policy, unlike his speeches in foreign locations, leaves me cold. I think he's a disaster on the foreign/diplomatic fronts.

Oh, I don't know, I kind of like that he moved our Embassy to Jerusalem and his announcement on the Golan Heights, finally chose to confront China on a broad range of economic and trade relations, negotiated the USMCA, forced Mexico to halt the caravans coming from Central America, destroying ISIS, getting our European Allies to finally start paying their agreed upon contributions to NATO and finally chose to address the North Korean situation after years of neglect.

[Kathianne]

Oh, I don't know, I kind of like that he moved our Embassy to Jerusalem and his announcement on the Golan Heights, finally chose to confront China on a broad range of economic and trade relations, negotiated the USMCA, forced Mexico to halt the caravans coming from Central America, destroying ISIS, getting our European Allies to finally start paying their agreed upon contributions to NATO and finally chose to address the North Korean situation after years of neglect.

Yeah, his policies with Chinazi has been exemplary. :rolleyes:

[FakeNewsSux]

Yeah, his policies with Chinazi has been exemplary. :rolleyes:

Just like The Swamp, China is a formidable enemy with tremendous resources. The mess with China has been nearly a half century in the making and will not be solved before the last commercial break. I give the man credit for the willingness to face the problem head on rather than take the time worn track of taking sacks full of money, praise China's development on their path toward the community of nations and then look the other way.

[STTAB]

Yeah, his policies with Chinazi has been exemplary. :rolleyes:


Someone HAD to confront China eventually, and doing it when we're economically strong makes the most sense. The alternative is just to keep allowing China to do whatever.... IMO he's not been hard enough on them.

But as for foreign policy, what specifically has he done that you disagree with ? Just his demeanor? Okay , maybe he could be a bit more diplomatic when telling these countries that we won't be their piggy bank/punching bag any more, but as for the safety of the world and our nation we are far safer than we were when he took office. That can't even be argued.

[Kathianne]

Someone HAD to confront China eventually, and doing it when we're economically strong makes the most sense. The alternative is just to keep allowing China to do whatever.... IMO he's not been hard enough on them.

But as for foreign policy, what specifically has he done that you disagree with ? Just his demeanor? Okay , maybe he could be a bit more diplomatic when telling these countries that we won't be their piggy bank/punching bag any more, but as for the safety of the world and our nation we are far safer than we were when he took office. That can't even be argued.

The trade war is not helping China, it's likely though to hurt us too. I've already written when I don't agree with the president, as I did on this, Hong Kong, meetings with North Korea, etc.

[STTAB]

The trade war is not helping China, it's likely though to hurt us too. I've already written when I don't agree with the president, as I did on this, Hong Kong, meetings with North Korea, etc.


Is it hurting us?? The USG is collected $63B in tarrifs since we joined the trade war with China (notice I said joined, because we were already at war with China, we just weren't participating) and it has barely put a dent in our economy. For sure this isn't something we could have done without a booming economy though.

[STTAB]

Personally I think we should take the 50k out of South Korea, now there's an area that we've been in forever and it certainly seems that South and North want to be one and join the Chinazis. Let them.

South and North are eroding our really important relationship with Japan. Build that up, add Taiwan, Hong Kong, Vietnam.


I agree 100%, why are we so concerned with South Korea, let them defend themselves. They can afford to build a military far superior to North Korea, and China isn't going to invade.

Bring those people home and I don't know, guard OUR country?

[NightTrain]

I agree with the second point on Iran, not the first. Iran and Turkey have been acting much like the enemy of my enemy for quite awhile now.

As for the first point, the issue of the Kurds and the reaction of US military and Presidential advisers, now gone, were all that stood in the way from this happening nearly a year ago:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey/syrian-surprise-how-trumps-phone-call-changed-the-war-idUSKCN1OR0PW


The entire impetus for our presence there was to assist in wiping out ISIS. That's because Syria couldn't do it, Russia couldn't do it, Turkey couldn't do it.

Iran was probably helping fund the ISIS terrorists.

In short, there's a ton of foreign actors in theatre and no one has enough to actually accomplish things - to the point where they're hindering efforts, even when the goals are aligned.

If you remember, the whole thing started with the Syrian civil war, and it created a vacuum that allowed ISIS a strong presence.

Our deterrence does not derive from our soldiers on the ground, it is from Naval and Air Force assets. Nevertheless, our troops on the ground ARE in harm's way because they're in a combat zone overstocked with different military organizations. While I would agree that the knowledge of US troops on the ground with the Kurds would give the Russians, Syrians, Turks and Iranians a bit more pause when contemplating their next move, I don't know that it warrants the risk of our guys getting pummeled.

Especially when it's not their combat capability that's providing the deterrent.

Trump is of the opinion that Turkey can finish off the small remaining ISIS pockets. It sounds like either we let the Turks finish them off while gaining assurances that they'll leave the Kurds alone, or we need to pour thousands of US ground forces in to Syria to finish the job.

As it stands now, it's a quagmire. Not much is being accomplished against the end goal of eliminating ISIS. I don't think any of us want another endless slog while getting our guys shot at in a hellhole of a country we really don't care about anyway.

Something's got to give. Either pull out or escalate to a war that none of us want.

If Trump has assurances from Turkey that they'll leave the Kurds alone while finishing off ISIS, then it sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

[STTAB]

The entire impetus for our presence there was to assist in wiping out ISIS. That's because Syria couldn't do it, Russia couldn't do it, Turkey couldn't do it.

Iran was probably helping fund the ISIS terrorists.

In short, there's a ton of foreign actors in theatre and no one has enough to actually accomplish things - to the point where they're hindering efforts, even when the goals are aligned.

If you remember, the whole thing started with the Syrian civil war, and it created a vacuum that allowed ISIS a strong presence.

Our deterrence does not derive from our soldiers on the ground, it is from Naval and Air Force assets. Nevertheless, our troops on the ground ARE in harm's way because they're in a combat zone overstocked with different military organizations. While I would agree that the knowledge of US troops on the ground with the Kurds would give the Russians, Syrians, Turks and Iranians a bit more pause when contemplating their next move, I don't know that it warrants the risk of our guys getting pummeled.

Especially when it's not their combat capability that's providing the deterrent.

Trump is of the opinion that Turkey can finish off the small remaining ISIS pockets. It sounds like either we let the Turks finish them off while gaining assurances that they'll leave the Kurds alone, or we need to pour thousands of US ground forces in to Syria to finish the job.

As it stands now, it's a quagmire. Not much is being accomplished against the end goal of eliminating ISIS. I don't think any of us want another endless slog while getting our guys shot at in a hellhole of a country we really don't care about anyway.

Something's got to give. Either pull out or escalate to a war that none of us want.

If Trump has assurances from Turkey that they'll leave the Kurds alone while finishing off ISIS, then it sounds like a pretty good deal to me.


The only REAL problem here is you can't trust Turkey, nor anyone in Turkey, their word isn't worth the air they breathed while talking. They need to be told in no uncertain terms, "If you go into Turkey and harm the Kurds, we will fuck you up" THAT would get their attention, the last thing they want is US airstrikes inside Turkey.

One thing is certain, removing 50 soldiers, even 50 US soldiers, isn't going to change whether Turkey wipes out the Kurds or not.

[Kathianne]

The entire impetus for our presence there was to assist in wiping out ISIS. That's because Syria couldn't do it, Russia couldn't do it, Turkey couldn't do it.

Iran was probably helping fund the ISIS terrorists.

In short, there's a ton of foreign actors in theatre and no one has enough to actually accomplish things - to the point where they're hindering efforts, even when the goals are aligned.

If you remember, the whole thing started with the Syrian civil war, and it created a vacuum that allowed ISIS a strong presence.

Our deterrence does not derive from our soldiers on the ground, it is from Naval and Air Force assets. Nevertheless, our troops on the ground ARE in harm's way because they're in a combat zone overstocked with different military organizations. While I would agree that the knowledge of US troops on the ground with the Kurds would give the Russians, Syrians, Turks and Iranians a bit more pause when contemplating their next move, I don't know that it warrants the risk of our guys getting pummeled.

Especially when it's not their combat capability that's providing the deterrent.

Trump is of the opinion that Turkey can finish off the small remaining ISIS pockets. It sounds like either we let the Turks finish them off while gaining assurances that they'll leave the Kurds alone, or we need to pour thousands of US ground forces in to Syria to finish the job.

As it stands now, it's a quagmire. Not much is being accomplished against the end goal of eliminating ISIS. I don't think any of us want another endless slog while getting our guys shot at in a hellhole of a country we really don't care about anyway.

Something's got to give. Either pull out or escalate to a war that none of us want.

If Trump has assurances from Turkey that they'll leave the Kurds alone while finishing off ISIS, then it sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

We're not going to agree on everything, no one does. I think we should honor those that stood and fought with us when all those others couldn't - wouldn't. Iran? Pfft. Working hand in glove with Turkey, as is Russia. That is reality.

[jimnyc]

Your thoughts, Pete? How do you think 25-50 soldiers would make such a difference? Did 50 soldiers truly protect an entire region? And without them the kurds will now be wiped out? I seeya reading, so... thought I would ask.

I don't think so, personally. Like NT said, the air support and other military assets besides 50 soldiers is the true deterrent. Now, had it been say 4,000, that would be different. But I don't see such a small amount being the difference in saving or destroying a region.

And yeps, Turkey cannot be trusted. And perhaps just knowing America is in there would give them pause. But I think the threats along with those 50 leaving, is as much of a deterrent. It's the threat and any chance of true reprisals that would deter them. It's not like 50 guys on the ground would prevent and protect under some form of invasion. But knowing the big guns from above or onboard ships could come in return, that's a deterrent. IMO anyway.

[Kathianne]

I'm swamped right now, will check into some of this later. With that said, I'm not sold on the premise now accepted as fact here about 75 or 50 or even 175. For some reason I don't think there would be so many generals and such as upset as they are if they thought there really won't be repercussions from pulling those troops-whatever the number.

Do not be surprised to find that ISIS prisoners are freed shortly, to return to the fight. As I said, I think there's little doubt they are working hand in glove with Iran.

[STTAB]

We're not going to agree on everything, no one does. I think we should honor those that stood and fought with us when all those others couldn't - wouldn't. Iran? Pfft. Working hand in glove with Turkey, as is Russia. That is reality.


Sure , but for how long? I mean Muslims have LONG memories, if we're going to stay in Northern Syria until the Turks no longer wish ill will towards the Kurds, then well we may as well build a base and said 50K troops to Syria.

I'm not sure how you can on one hand say you want us out of North Korea but on the other hand think 50 troops should have been left in Northern Syria.........

And also, technically speaking Turkey is our NATO ally and we have a truce with them. The reality is if war broke out between the Kurds and Turkey, we'd be obligated to defend Turkey . A policy I totally disagree with btw, I actually think we should leave NATO, but short of that Turkey should't be in NATO. But nonetheless, they ARE a NATO member and thus we have obligations.

South Korea isn't a member of NATO.

[NightTrain]

The only REAL problem here is you can't trust Turkey, nor anyone in Turkey, their word isn't worth the air they breathed while talking. They need to be told in no uncertain terms, "If you go into Turkey and harm the Kurds, we will fuck you up" THAT would get their attention, the last thing they want is US airstrikes inside Turkey.

One thing is certain, removing 50 soldiers, even 50 US soldiers, isn't going to change whether Turkey wipes out the Kurds or not.


Agree 100%. None of the actors in Syria are to be trusted.

I think Trump's track record with regard to believing lies from other countries has been stellar so far. He's called out Russia, Turkey, Syria, China, North Korea and others when being fed lines of bullshit, and has punished dishonesty. People pay attention to Trump's Red Lines.

I'm pretty sure that Trump has Erogadan's number. He already kicked Turkey out of the F-35 program and knows that Turkey is not to be trusted unless there's a big stick waving in the background. The Kurds have the Pentagon's phone number and we have drones & satellites keeping a close eye on things in case things go sideways.

I think the largest threat is Turkey 'accidently' shelling & bombing Kurds while they're pursuing ISIS, but that's how that kind of game goes. A quick reprisal might prove a bit sticky diplomatically with us attacking another NATO member, but IMO Turkey isn't much of an ally anymore.

[STTAB]

I'm swamped right now, will check into some of this later. With that said, I'm not sold on the premise now accepted as fact here about 75 or 50 or even 175. For some reason I don't think there would be so many generals and such as upset as they are if they thought there really won't be repercussions from pulling those troops-whatever the number.

Do not be surprised to find that ISIS prisoners are freed shortly, to return to the fight. As I said, I think there's little doubt they are working hand in glove with Iran.


Then you don't understand Generals ma'am. Flag officers in ALL branches are political animals. The days of the General who only worried about winning the war are long over. Generals and Admirals are concerned with ONE THING, justifying their existence.

For example, no one actually believes that South Korea would be in ANY danger from North Korea if we pulled out. That's just ridiculous, Kim Jong Un knows that we could pull every soldier out of DMZ and still kick the shit out of him within a matter of days if he did anything stupid. But no General will EVER go on record as saying that, because the name of the game is protecting your turf. There's a lot of money and careers being made here, we can't let stuff like reality get in the way.

[STTAB]

Agree 100%. None of the actors in Syria are to be trusted.

I think Trump's track record with regard to believing lies from other countries has been stellar so far. He's called out Russia, Turkey, Syria, China, North Korea and others when being fed lines of bullshit, and has punished dishonesty. People pay attention to Trump's Red Lines.

I'm pretty sure that Trump has Erogadan's number. He already kicked Turkey out of the F-35 program and knows that Turkey is not to be trusted unless there's a big stick waving in the background. The Kurds have the Pentagon's phone number and we have drones & satellites keeping a close eye on things in case things go sideways.

I think the largest threat is Turkey 'accidently' shelling & bombing Kurds while they're pursuing ISIS, but that's how that kind of game goes. A quick reprisal might prove a bit sticky diplomatically with us attacking another NATO member, but IMO Turkey isn't much of an ally anymore.


I don't see a scenario where we respond to Turkey with military power. Economic sanctions would cripple them.

[NightTrain]

Whether or not this is exactly right, we all need to remember that the msm wants to whip up anti- Trump frenzy every day. I hope it is true.


This. A thousand times, this.

And, right on cue, Romney clawed his way out of his cellar to aid the democrats. It truly galls me that I voted for that puke a few years ago. It had to be done, though.

[STTAB]

This. A thousand times, this.

And, right on cue, Romney clawed his way out of his cellar to aid the democrats. It truly galls me that I voted for that puke a few years ago. It had to be done, though.

Senator Romney is the new Senator McCain. I won't wish cancer on the man, but I'm not wishing for it not to get him either.

[NightTrain]

I don't see a scenario where we respond to Turkey with military power. Economic sanctions would cripple them.


I guess that would depend on what was going on. If it were a full offensive against the Kurds, I don't think we'd have any choice but to respond by striking them to get them to stop. I think a few minutes of artillery with quick insincere apologies would be more their style.

Either way, yeah, Trump already said he'd devastate Turkey's economy if they did. I don't think they're in great shape as it is.

[NightTrain]

Do not be surprised to find that ISIS prisoners are freed shortly, to return to the fight. As I said, I think there's little doubt they are working hand in glove with Iran.


Why on earth would the Kurds release ISIS prisoners? They're mortal enemies. If anything, they'll line them up and shoot them before releasing ISIS back into the wild.

And there's no way that Trump, of all people, would allow something like that to happen. 0bama, maybe... but there's no way in hell that Trump would.

I get the feeling that because we're the good guys, we've prevented ISIS prisoner executions. Handing them over to the Turks or simply telling the Kurds to do with them as they see fit as we exit the area seems like a good, blameless way to eliminate the radical terrorists without getting our hands dirty.

Simply releasing them isn't going to happen. Either way this works out, they'd better get right with Allah real fast.

[Kathianne]

Why on earth would the Kurds release ISIS prisoners? They're mortal enemies. If anything, they'll line them up and shoot them before releasing ISIS back into the wild.

And there's no way that Trump, of all people, would allow something like that to happen. 0bama, maybe... but there's no way in hell that Trump would.

I get the feeling that because we're the good guys, we've prevented ISIS prisoner executions. Handing them over to the Turks or simply telling the Kurds to do with them as they see fit as we exit the area seems like a good, blameless way to eliminate the radical terrorists without getting our hands dirty.

Simply releasing them isn't going to happen. Either way this works out, they'd better get right with Allah real fast.

Turkey.

[NightTrain]

Turkey.


?

[Kathianne]

?
You asked why the Kurds would release ISIS prisoners, I meant Turkey.

[NightTrain]

You asked why the Kurds would release ISIS prisoners, I meant Turkey.


I'm not following you here. The ISIS combatants in question are being held by the Kurds.

We have nothing to do with Turkey's prisoners.

[Kathianne]

I'm not following you here. The ISIS combatants in question are being held by the Kurds.

We have nothing to do with Turkey's prisoners.
Forgive source, came on top and I've got a lot going on:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/07/us/politics/isis-prisons-detainees.html

[NightTrain]

Forgive source, came on top and I've got a lot going on:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/07/us/politics/isis-prisons-detainees.html


Right. The solution is pretty apparent, as I've said before. Bloody, nasty business, but necessary.

If there's no USA standing there wagging the disapproving finger at the Kurds, I think they'll take care of business. They know what has to be done.


And now, cue Pete to wail about the human rights of the ISIS combatants.

[pete311]

Washington post reporting turkey is poised to attack in the next 24h

[Kathianne]

Right. The solution is pretty apparent, as I've said before. Bloody, nasty business, but necessary.

If there's no USA standing there wagging the disapproving finger at the Kurds, I think they'll take care of business. They know what has to be done.


And now, cue Pete to wail about the human rights of the ISIS combatants.
So the Kurds will take care of Turkey, oh yes.

[NightTrain]

So the Kurds will take care of Turkey, oh yes.


What?

We were talking about the ISIS prisoners, were we not?

Are you okay?

[icansayit]

Washington post reporting turkey is poised to attack in the next 24h

If the Washington Post says so. Then...it has to be right. RIGHT?

Try this for your Most Reliable source petey...https://whatsnewinpublishing.com/washington-post-admits-its-fake-news-story-relied-on-a-fake-news-source
Pentagon warns Turkey not to invade Syria as Trump blasted for abandoning Kurdish partners
How about this?...https://www.stripes.com/news/us/pentagon-warns-turkey-not-to-invade-syria-as-trump-blasted-for-abandoning-kurdish-partners-1.602142

[Kathianne]

What?

We were talking about the ISIS prisoners, were we not?

Are you okay?

Again, you said that Kurds would be able to deal with Turkey taking over, not sure what you are thinking.

[Kathianne]

Again, you said that Kurds would be able to deal with Turkey taking over, not sure what you are thinking.
Here you go. Today is still going to be a crazy one, but I did find the link I was looking for:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/turkey-syria-erdogan-kurds-flee-isis

[Kathianne]

Anyone notice how often lately China and Russia are looking at the same allies?

https://pjmedia.com/spengler/we-dont-have-good-options-with-turkey-and-iran-well-have-to-work-hard-to-get-them/

[pete311]

If the Washington Post says so. Then...it has to be right. RIGHT?

Try this for your Most Reliable source petey...https://whatsnewinpublishing.com/washington-post-admits-its-fake-news-story-relied-on-a-fake-news-source
Pentagon warns Turkey not to invade Syria as Trump blasted for abandoning Kurdish partners
How about this?...https://www.stripes.com/news/us/pentagon-warns-turkey-not-to-invade-syria-as-trump-blasted-for-abandoning-kurdish-partners-1.602142



General command of the SDF issued a late night plea to the world for help. We are leaving them high and dry and you've lost your honor.

[pete311]

Erdoğan has announced operations have started
https://twitter.com/RTErdogan/status/1181919804619407360

[Kathianne]

It has started. Our 'ally' Turkey is now full throttle on the Kurds:

https://hotair.com/archives/jazz-shaw/2019/10/09/begins-turkish-troops-crossing-syria/

[jimnyc]

General command of the SDF issued a late night plea to the world for help. We are leaving them high and dry and you've lost your honor.

No he hasn't. You're just a piece of shit trying to rile folks up as usual, nothing ever but one liners, or trying to personally insult others.

You lose. Every single time. You are a LOSER. And I bet 50-1 odds that's the case in real life as well. Hence the need to try and brag time and again about finances and other crap. Sure. More like https://i.imgur.com/lrBBAcJ.gif

[pete311]

No he hasn't. You're just a piece of shit trying to rile folks up as usual, nothing ever but one liners, or trying to personally insult others.

You lose. Every single time. You are a LOSER. And I bet 50-1 odds that's the case in real life as well. Hence the need to try and brag time and again about finances and other crap. Sure. More like https://i.imgur.com/lrBBAcJ.gif

Jim you've been getting triggered by me a lot lately, not a good look, very weak.

[jimnyc]

We knew full well that Turkey was going to carve a slice over the border. But this isn't about suddenly attacking kurds due to our pulling back of 50 troops. I don't think Turkey would have coordinated and spoke with us if that were the case. From what I understand this was planned long before. If the kurds prefer to stay there and fight, that's their choice. But Turkey isn't jumpipng in there to kill people we were protecting.

[jimnyc]

Jim you've been getting triggered by me a lot lately, not a good look, very weak.

Nope, I just don't entertain your BS is all. You're a troll, nothing more, and I make sure folks reading know about it. Don't like it? Then change your ways. Otherwise, you remain my bitch.

[jimnyc]

If the kurds back off and move out of the sliced area - isTurkey going to go past that point and start a war, and how far into Syria will they go? Will they chase down the Kurds 500, 1000 miles across the border?

[pete311]

Nope, I just don't entertain your BS is all. You're a troll, nothing more, and I make sure folks reading know about it. Don't like it? Then change your ways. Otherwise, you remain my bitch.

how kinky

[Kathianne]

We knew full well that Turkey was going to carve a slice over the border. But this isn't about suddenly attacking kurds due to our pulling back of 50 troops. I don't think Turkey would have coordinated and spoke with us if that were the case. From what I understand this was planned long before. If the kurds prefer to stay there and fight, that's their choice. But Turkey isn't jumpipng in there to kill people we were protecting.
Yep, Turkish strongman said he wanted to get rid of Kurds in area. Our president said, 'let's get our guys out of the way.' So be it.

Hope we never need to use them again, after all, Clinton and Obama both screwed them. Maybe they just don't matter.

[pete311]

If the kurds back off and move out of the sliced area - isTurkey going to go past that point and start a war, and how far into Syria will they go? Will they chase down the Kurds 500, 1000 miles across the border?

back off lol? you want thousands of families to relocate hundreds of miles from their home while air fighters drop bombs on them lolk. dude seriously

[pete311]

Yep, Turkish strongman said he wanted to get rid of Kurds in area. Our president said, 'let's get our guys out of the way.' So be it.

Hope we never need to use them again, after all, Clinton and Obama both screwed them. Maybe they just don't matter.

it's totally disgusting and there wouldn't be any kurds left in syria. they were completely expendable and it's just disgusting. these are people, our allies and we throw them away. The world criticizes America exactly for this bullshit. Some of you don't see it because your head is so far up your america centric asshole you can't imagine anyone else in the world having value. (not directed to kath)

[STTAB]

It has started. Our 'ally' Turkey is now full throttle on the Kurds:

https://hotair.com/archives/jazz-shaw/2019/10/09/begins-turkish-troops-crossing-syria/


Just to state a few facts, are you aware that the US acknowledges that there are substantial ties between the YPG and PPK, a US labeled terror group? In other words, we armed people who we know are terrorists to fight ISIS. Now, certainly this doesn't mean every Kurd in the region supports terrorism, but it does shed some light on things, the PPK is VERY active in Turkey , and thus they have a national interest in defeating them.

[Kathianne]

Just to state a few facts, are you aware that the US acknowledges that there are substantial ties between the YPG and PPK, a US labeled terror group? In other words, we armed people who we know are terrorists to fight ISIS. Now, certainly this doesn't mean every Kurd in the region supports terrorism, but it does shed some light on things, the PPK is VERY active in Turkey , and thus they have a national interest in defeating them.
Yep. Aware.

[STTAB]

Yep. Aware.

Leaving aside the question of why are we arming groups with ties to terrorism for a moment, don't you agree that the US isn't the only country that has the right to fight terror groups outside of their own country?

[pete311]

Lindsey Graham calling it shameful and the start of isis reemergence

[STTAB]

Lindsey Graham calling it shameful and the start of isis reemergence


All the sudden Pete loves Lindsey Graham LOL

[pete311]

All the sudden Pete loves Lindsey Graham LOL
Quoting him is loving him... weird

[NightTrain]

Again, you said that Kurds would be able to deal with Turkey taking over, not sure what you are thinking.

:bang3:

The prisoners.

The ISIS prisoners!

We're talking about the ISIS combatants being held by the Kurds!



If you're so disinterested that you can't be bothered to focus, and knowing that you've lost the thrust of this particular discussion and can't be bothered to scroll up and reacquire, then we're done here.

[NightTrain]

Lindsey Graham calling it shameful and the start of isis reemergence


Here's your chance, Pete! Jump in that 2006 Honda Civic and rush down to join the Marines. They'll make a man out of you yet.

[STTAB]

Here's your chance, Pete! Jump in that 2006 Honda Civic and rush down to join the Marines. They'll make a man out of you yet.

Pete couldn't make it through Boy Scouts training, let alone the Marines.

[pete311]

Here's your chance, Pete! Jump in that 2006 Honda Civic and rush down to join the Marines. They'll make a man out of you yet.

2012

[NightTrain]

2012


:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Yeahhh boyyyy, you're a real baller, yo.

[Kathianne]

:bang3:

The prisoners.

The ISIS prisoners!

We're talking about the ISIS combatants being held by the Kurds!



If you're so disinterested that you can't be bothered to focus, and knowing that you've lost the thrust of this particular discussion and can't be bothered to scroll up and reacquire, then we're done here.
Ok

[Kathianne]

Leaving aside the question of why are we arming groups with ties to terrorism for a moment, don't you agree that the US isn't the only country that has the right to fight terror groups outside of their own country?
You mean like al Queda here?

[STTAB]

You mean like al Queda here?


We armed AQ here in America? News to me.

But yes, how many fucking times does our government have to arm a rebel group only to watch them eventually turn on us before we're like "hey maybe stop arming rebel groups........"

[jimnyc]

:bang3:

The prisoners.

The ISIS prisoners!

We're talking about the ISIS combatants being held by the Kurds!



If you're so disinterested that you can't be bothered to focus, and knowing that you've lost the thrust of this particular discussion and can't be bothered to scroll up and reacquire, then we're done here.

Drop a bomb on all the prisoners and walk away whistling. :)

[STTAB]

Drop a bomb on all the prisoners and walk away whistling. :)

Save the bomb, just list them all as witnesses against the Clintons in a criminal trial and let Hillary take her course.

[NightTrain]

Drop a bomb on all the prisoners and walk away whistling. :)

That's what I've been saying.

Except the Kurds will gladly take care of this bit of business as soon as we're not present, so we don't even need to waste a bomb.

ISIS prisoners? There are no ISIS prisoners.

[FakeNewsSux]

Some data that might be helpful (granted, it's from the BBC-Brits Bashing Conservatives but the info seems pretty straightforward):

Four maps that explain the Turkish offensive in north-east Syria
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-49973218

[Abbey Marie]

it's totally disgusting and there wouldn't be any kurds left in syria. they were completely expendable and it's just disgusting. these are people, our allies and we throw them away. The world criticizes America exactly for this bullshit. Some of you don't see it because your head is so far up your america centric asshole you can't imagine anyone else in the world having value. (not directed to kath)

So we are disgusting for leaving after years of troops and money.
Are other countries disgusting for never even trying to help?
Yeah, I didn’t think so.

[jimnyc]

So we are disgusting for leaving after years of troops and money.
Are other countries disgusting for never even trying to help?
Yeah, I didn’t think so.

How disgusting are the many countries for not helping before, or with America. And disgusting, with them threatened now - who is running over to help them? It's only ever the USA expected to help others, and then we are criticized by the masses for doing just that. And if you stay for years and cost a ton of money, no matter the outcome you are called a loser. Pull out the troops and you are a loser. It seems like a lose lose proposition no matter what you do.

I think the first priority is to save American troops lives and to prevent deaths. Then yes, to help our allies. But I think the reality of the situation is getting lost in the principal of things, that you shouldn't leave an ally as such. But the reality is, such a small number really wasn't going to prevent anything much. But maybe just the fact that Americans are on the ground made them think twice, knowing they kill our troops and they will have hell to pay. But how long can 50 guys really hold them off? Or more importantly, how long are that amount expected to stay there and hold them off? At one point do you have a plan internally and hand things off and get out of dodge. You can't really expect to keep them there forever, or for an unlimited amount of time. What's to say that if we stayed there another 10 years, that folks don't just wait patiently, and do the same then?

My problem is what is the plan? IS there one? Was there one? COULD there ever be one to make it so we and/or others would be able to leave?

But to that point, I do find it disgusting that other countries may say anything, and they ain't doing jack shit. Or the endless complaints you see around the internet, many being from folks from all corners of the world - and they do so knowing or not knowing that their own countries aren't doing shit.

[icansayit]

Hey petey. Weren't you one of the DISGUSTED People who complained about the U.S. Always being picked to be the POLICEMAN of the World? And, did you not, constantly complain about all U.S. Military involvement (like IRAQ, and AFGHANISTAN) where Americans have been on the ground DEFENDING YOUR SORRY BUTT for nearly 20 years?

With those questions in mind to you. Why are you now claiming to be so DISGUSTED with our TROOPS finally about to come home from WARS we didn't have any business being involved with....AGAIN?

Oh...that's right. I forgot. It was Okay for OBAMA to DRONE innocent people...some Americans,but now that Trump is running the show, and bringing our people home....THAT'S TERRIBLE, DISGUSTING, AND ANOTHER REASON TO IMPEACH HIM?

You sound so much like NANCY, ADAM, JERRY, CHUCKY, HILLARY, OBAMA, and the entire DNC Chorus....you oughta be in MOVIES!!!!

[pete311]

12219

[jimnyc]

50 troops relocated - not 1000.

[pete311]

50 troops relocated - not 1000.

way to focus on the important part...

[Elessar]

12219

That's all? No comment, as usual. What a weasel!

Where was your outrage when Bill clinton had cruise missiles
into Iraq and Syria, only to blow up an abandoned aspirin factory, plus
some radar installations.

Where was your outrage when Obama used drones to go after iSIS when
the best platforms would have been A-10's and AC-130 Gunships?

You are getting yourself knee-deep in bullshit.

[jimnyc]

way to focus on the important part...

Way to use someone elses lie, and to exaggerate by like 50000%!!! Yes, I do find that a bit important.

[Kathianne]

How disgusting are the many countries for not helping before, or with America. And disgusting, with them threatened now - who is running over to help them? It's only ever the USA expected to help others, and then we are criticized by the masses for doing just that. And if you stay for years and cost a ton of money, no matter the outcome you are called a loser. Pull out the troops and you are a loser. It seems like a lose lose proposition no matter what you do.

I think the first priority is to save American troops lives and to prevent deaths. Then yes, to help our allies. But I think the reality of the situation is getting lost in the principal of things, that you shouldn't leave an ally as such. But the reality is, such a small number really wasn't going to prevent anything much. But maybe just the fact that Americans are on the ground made them think twice, knowing they kill our troops and they will have hell to pay. But how long can 50 guys really hold them off? Or more importantly, how long are that amount expected to stay there and hold them off? At one point do you have a plan internally and hand things off and get out of dodge. You can't really expect to keep them there forever, or for an unlimited amount of time. What's to say that if we stayed there another 10 years, that folks don't just wait patiently, and do the same then?

My problem is what is the plan? IS there one? Was there one? COULD there ever be one to make it so we and/or others would be able to leave?

But to that point, I do find it disgusting that other countries may say anything, and they ain't doing jack shit. Or the endless complaints you see around the internet, many being from folks from all corners of the world - and they do so knowing or not knowing that their own countries aren't doing shit.

I've had a bit of time to read some things. The troops, whatever their number, have been moved-not coming home. What were they doing? Keeping Turkey from killing the Kurds. Seems a deal with Erdogon had been reached and a deal made. Winning! Indeed, President dictator Erdogon is invited to visit with our President next month. (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/erdogan-trump-to-meet-in-washington-on-november-13-147279)

While there seems only two here that think this was a dishonorable action, in the great scheme of things, we're not alone. Indeed, there are quite a few senators not happy. at. all. with what has gone down. Hopefully nothing so horrible as genocide or ISIS freedom fighters being freed and Iran surrounding Israel in essence will make it so that impeachment may slide towards conviction will happen. Really have to wonder why now? If this was to be a distraction, it's not a good ploy. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-07/senate-republicans-recoil-from-trump-s-decision-to-abandon-kurds

Edit: I was so caught up on the Kurds that I missed my response to you. I've said this before, but right now is a good time to repeat it, I was impressed that President Trump has been able to make NATO allies contribute more of their share; To make many in the UN pony up what they should have been all along, etc.

I didn't think he'd have better results than all those prior, I was wrong on that. He was able to make them shake some of what is owed back. That is a good thing, very good.

Has nothing to do with very bad decisions, which the Kurd situation is. Actually it's just the worst of quite a few that I have found very bad.

[Kathianne]

Will be history when they're done, then it won't matter anymore. Practical and tough! Winning!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/erdogan-109-terrorists-killed-in-syria-push/ar-AAIyvIz


Associated Press
Erdogan: 109 'terrorists killed' in Syria push
By LEFTERIS PITARAKIS and MEHMET GUZEL, Associated Press 18 mins ago


BEIRUT (AP) — Turkey's president says that there have been 109 "terrorists killed" — a reference to Syrian Kurdish fighters — since Ankara launched an offensive into Syria the previous day.


Recep Tayyip Erdogan did not elaborate and the reports on the ground did not indicate anything remotely close to such a large number of casualties.


Erdogan also warned the European Union not to call Ankara's incursion into Syria an 'invasion,' and renewed his threat of letting Syrian refugees flood Europe.


He reiterated an earlier statement that Turkey could "open the gates" for an influx of Syrian migrants to Europe.


Erdogan spoke to ruling party officials on Thursday, saying Turkey seeks to prevent the creation of a "terror state" along its border with Syria.

...

[Drummond]

The number of troops you have in any one locality is important, but it isn't the whole picture by a long shot.

Keep a sizeable force in a trouble-spot in the world, then reduce that force, say, by 75% .. on the grounds that only that remaining 25% is needed to do the job they're there to do. On paper, that makes sense. BUT, how would an opposing force view it ? As evidence of reduced interest in the military commitment intended ? As evidence of disinterest in the mission they're there to satisfy ?

That perspective can only boost the morale of your enemy, maybe encourage aggressions where they wouldn't have happened otherwise.

I understand Trump's thinking, and I even sympathise. Still ... actions have consequences. I for one still believe that the War on Terror is a reality, and our side stands to lose it if military commitment is lessened. Who, on our side of the fence, has reason to believe that the belligerence of opposing forces has fundamentally lessened ?

In this case of troops being withdrawn and Turkey acting in response .. even if it was only 50 of them, STILL, removing them had its major effect. What if this ends up with ISIS captives escaping, and regrouping, to help form a future terrorist threat ?

[jimnyc]

Yep, Winning. I'm outta this one.

[pete311]

6 year old boy was one of the first casualties yesterday

[pete311]

"The Turks and Turkish officials are actually the top patrons over any other country at the Trump Hotel in Washington."
https://www.msnbc.com/stephanie-ruhle/watch/trump-s-turkey-business-connections-in-spotlight-70922821594?cid=sm_npd_ms_tw_ma

[STTAB]

Will be history when they're done, then it won't matter anymore. Practical and tough! Winning!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/erdogan-109-terrorists-killed-in-syria-push/ar-AAIyvIz


Kath , you are missing the point. We still have US soldiers in theater. We're just pulling these 50 soldiers out of this area of Syria. We're not leaving Syria to Turkey, we'ere not abandoning the Kurds as was first reported, we're moving 50 soldiers out of an AO , that's it. It's done ALL THE TIME, and in fact the only truly stupid thing about this is that Trump made a big tadoo out of moving 50 fucking soldiers out northern Syria as if he really accomplished anything.

Also, let me address your "plenty of Senators are upset about this" comment with a couple of comments.

1. Who gives a shit, the US Senate is in fact NOT in charge of foreign policy, nor the US military, that is the President's job
2. They are pissed because they profit from war. Both in terms of money and in power. They don't even want to see any conflict end.

[pete311]

Kath , you are missing the point. We still have US soldiers in theater. We're just pulling these 50 soldiers out of this area of Syria. We're not leaving Syria to Turkey, we'ere not abandoning the Kurds as was first reported, we're moving 50 soldiers out of an AO , that's it. It's done ALL THE TIME, and in fact the only truly stupid thing about this is that Trump made a big tadoo out of moving 50 fucking soldiers out northern Syria as if he really accomplished anything.

Is your head in the sand? The Kurds ARE under attack right now. There is video and photo evidence. Are you telling me it's some kind of cosmic level coincidence that after taking a call from Erdogan that 48 hours later he decides (while not taking advisement from the US commander in syria) to pull out of the Kurd region and then another cosmic level coincidence that Erdogan announces they are attacking. WOW!

[pete311]

Kath , you are missing the point. We still have US soldiers in theater. We're just pulling these 50 soldiers out of this area of Syria. We're not leaving Syria to Turkey, we'ere not abandoning the Kurds as was first reported, we're moving 50 soldiers out of an AO , that's it. It's done ALL THE TIME, and in fact the only truly stupid thing about this is that Trump made a big tadoo out of moving 50 fucking soldiers out northern Syria as if he really accomplished anything.

Also, let me address your "plenty of Senators are upset about this" comment with a couple of comments.

1. Who gives a shit, the US Senate is in fact NOT in charge of foreign policy, nor the US military, that is the President's job
2. They are pissed because they profit from war. Both in terms of money and in power. They don't even want to see any conflict end.

So Obama tucks and runs and you go nuts, but Trump tucks and runs and you cheer. Got it.

[Drummond]

So Obama tucks and runs and you go nuts, but Trump tucks and runs and you cheer. Got it.

These posts of yours are well worth remembering for future reference, Pete, especially considering ....

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?67790-US-Sells-Out-Kurds-To-Turkey&p=944667#post944667

Enough said ?

[pete311]

These posts of yours are well worth remembering for future reference, Pete, especially considering ....

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?67790-US-Sells-Out-Kurds-To-Turkey&p=944667#post944667

Enough said ?

I'll remember this next time any of you have any opinion outside of anything you're not a verified expert in. btw, what office have you held at the national level in England? You seem to hold a lot of Brexit opinions.

[STTAB]

Is your head in the sand? The Kurds ARE under attack right now. There is video and photo evidence. Are you telling me it's some kind of cosmic level coincidence that after taking a call from Erdogan that 48 hours later he decides (while not taking advisement from the US commander in syria) to pull out of the Kurd region and then another cosmic level coincidence that Erdogan announces they are attacking. WOW!


The PKK is a TERRORIST organization. They are committing acts of terror in Turkey. Are you suggesting that the US has the right to go into Syria and kill terrorists who have been attacking us, but Turkey does not?

[pete311]

The PKK is a TERRORIST organization. They are committing acts of terror in Turkey. Are you suggesting that the US has the right to go into Syria and kill terrorists who have been attacking us, but Turkey does not?

There are 2 million Kurds in northern Syria.

Is this boy a terrorist?

12222

[STTAB]

There are 2 million Kurds in northern Syria.

Is this boy a terrorist?

12222


You are smarter than this, please start acting like it. Turkey isn't targeting 4 year old children, and you know we won't allow that to happen.

BTW how many innocent Muslims were killed as a result of Obama chasing down terrorists who were hiding among them? The answer is quite a few and you know it.

[pete311]

You are smarter than this, please start acting like it. Turkey isn't targeting 4 year old children, and you know we won't allow that to happen.

BTW how many innocent Muslims were killed as a result of Obama chasing down terrorists who were hiding among them? The answer is quite a few and you know it.

You aren't this naive, stop acting like it. Turkey doesn't care about civilian casualties.

[Kathianne]

You are smarter than this, please start acting like it. Turkey isn't targeting 4 year old children, and you know we won't allow that to happen.

BTW how many innocent Muslims were killed as a result of Obama chasing down terrorists who were hiding among them? The answer is quite a few and you know it.

3 years now, how long does 'Obama did _________' excuse bad decisions? I know that we all got very tired of Obama pulling it on Bush.

I don't have a problem with arguing the pros and cons of making nice with Turkey, Erdogan in particular, but this outcome was more than predictable. It's why so many had the reaction that they did. You are smart enough to know all of this.

Those that are in support that moving 50 US soldiers out of the way of Turkish fighters to get to Kurds and 'help' with Syria is a good thing should defend that, not go all 'Obama did it too.' Yeah, he did, that was mentioned before the deal was consummated.

[Kathianne]

I know that some had issues with my saying that there was too great a chance for ISIS prisoners to be freed in Turkey's desire to crush the Kurds. Bottom line it really wouldn't matter if it were the Kurds or the Turks that allowed their escape, the escapes would be the issue.

In any case:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-security-turkey-prison/turkey-shelled-prison-holding-is-foreign-fighters-kurdish-led-administration-idUSKBN1WP15C


WORLD NEWSOCTOBER 10, 2019 / 2:10 AM / UPDATED 6 HOURS AGO
Turkey shelled prison holding IS foreign fighters Kurdish-led administration

BEIRUT (Reuters) - The Syrian Kurdish-led authorities accused Turkey of shelling a prison holding Islamic State (IS) militants of more than 60 nationalities, calling this “a clear attempt” to help them escape.


There was no immediate comment from Turkey.

...

[STTAB]

3 years now, how long does 'Obama did _________' excuse bad decisions? I know that we all got very tired of Obama pulling it on Bush.

I don't have a problem with arguing the pros and cons of making nice with Turkey, Erdogan in particular, but this outcome was more than predictable. It's why so many had the reaction that they did. You are smart enough to know all of this.

Those that are in support that moving 50 US soldiers out of the way of Turkish fighters to get to Kurds and 'help' with Syria is a good thing should defend that, not go all 'Obama did it too.' Yeah, he did, that was mentioned before the deal was consummated.


If you will reread my response you will see I wasn't using "Obama did_______" to excuse anything Trump does, rather I was using it to expose Pete's hypocrisy. He didn't care about civilian casualties then, he doesn't really care now, just another thing to bitch about Trump for.

[STTAB]

I know that some had issues with my saying that there was too great a chance for ISIS prisoners to be freed in Turkey's desire to crush the Kurds. Bottom line it really wouldn't matter if it were the Kurds or the Turks that allowed their escape, the escapes would be the issue.

In any case:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-security-turkey-prison/turkey-shelled-prison-holding-is-foreign-fighters-kurdish-led-administration-idUSKBN1WP15C


If we find clear evidence that this was a purposeful attack on a prison , and especially if we find out it was an attempt to free ISIS prisoners, that's a problem we need to address. I won't just take Kurdish claims as fact though. Just the way I am.

[Kathianne]

If you will reread my response you will see I wasn't using "Obama did_______" to excuse anything Trump does, rather I was using it to expose Pete's hypocrisy. He didn't care about civilian casualties then, he doesn't really care now, just another thing to bitch about Trump for.

Then I apologize for jumping the gun.

It bothered me, a lot, when Obama was cutting and running. It's bothering me a lot now too.

I have to admit that I do not get what the President was thinking of doing this, especially when these actions are going to push away those who were finding some sympathy with the unfairness of the whole impeachment issue and the soft coup leading up to it? I just don't get it.

I'm unsure if he doesn't understand that there are substantial numbers of voters and Senators that were reluctant in the first place, now between the obvious heavy handedness of Ukraine and greetings on 70th anniversary of Chinazis and this agreement with murderer Erdogan find him again more than wanting?

I get 'idealism' but Americans are the most generous people on earth, we root for the underdog, not the strongmen that kick them.

We should be pro-Hong Kong, at least verbally. Moreso with the Kurds.

[Kathianne]

If we find clear evidence that this was a purposeful attack on a prison , and especially if we find out it was an attempt to free ISIS prisoners, that's a problem we need to address. I won't just take Kurdish claims as fact though. Just the way I am.
Yeah, 'we've done it before,' right? Go after the $$$, winning!

[STTAB]

Then I apologize for jumping the gun.

It bothered me, a lot, when Obama was cutting and running. It's bothering me a lot now too.

I have to admit that I do not get what the President was thinking of doing this, especially when these actions are going to push away those who were finding some sympathy with the unfairness of the whole impeachment issue and the soft coup leading up to it? I just don't get it.

I'm unsure if he doesn't understand that there are substantial numbers of voters and Senators that were reluctant in the first place, now between the obvious heavy handedness of Ukraine and greetings on 70th anniversary of Chinazis and this agreement with murderer Erdogan find him again more than wanting?

I get 'idealism' but Americans are the most generous people on earth, we root for the underdog, not the strongmen that kick them.

We should be pro-Hong Kong, at least verbally. Moreso with the Kurds.


We should be "pro under dog?" what does that even me. The underdog isn't always right you know. I've been doing a lot of reading on this subject and it is clear that the PKE is hiding in plain sight among the Kurds, and the quasi Kurd government is allowing it. The fact of the matter is Turkey is actually doing to the Kurds what we did to both Iraq and Afghanistan, albeit yes they are for sure less careful about civilian casualties than we would be.

We are NOT the world police Kath, let the vaunted UN go in there and protect the Kurds if they want to protect people who are harboring terrorists, and yes that is exactly what is going on.ISIS and the PKE are enemies so the Kurds were happy to join in our fight against ISIS , but they will not turn their back on the PKE. Turkey is an ally, not a very good one as you well know I believe but on paper at least they are an ally, we can NOT get in a shooting war with them.

It's a terrible situation, no doubt, but not one we created, and not one that should cost my brothers and sisters in uniform their lives.

[jimnyc]

If we find clear evidence that this was a purposeful attack on a prison , and especially if we find out it was an attempt to free ISIS prisoners, that's a problem we need to address. I won't just take Kurdish claims as fact though. Just the way I am.

I say drop a bomb on ISIS and help Turkey bomb them. Yep, winning still!!

[Kathianne]

We should be "pro under dog?" what does that even me. The underdog isn't always right you know. I've been doing a lot of reading on this subject and it is clear that the PKE is hiding in plain sight among the Kurds, and the quasi Kurd government is allowing it. The fact of the matter is Turkey is actually doing to the Kurds what we did to both Iraq and Afghanistan, albeit yes they are for sure less careful about civilian casualties than we would be.

We are NOT the world police Kath, let the vaunted UN go in there and protect the Kurds if they want to protect people who are harboring terrorists, and yes that is exactly what is going on.ISIS and the PKE are enemies so the Kurds were happy to join in our fight against ISIS , but they will not turn their back on the PKE. Turkey is an ally, not a very good one as you well know I believe but on paper at least they are an ally, we can NOT get in a shooting war with them.

It's a terrible situation, no doubt, but not one we created, and not one that should cost my brothers and sisters in uniform their lives.
I thank you for your service, it doesn’t allow you to speak for all or to be necessarily an authority on all things connected with the military.

The Kurds did a lot of the fighting and dying regarding ISIS. They had our back and foolishly assumed the same in return. A lesson taught once again, the US is not a good ally.

[STTAB]

I thank you for your service, it doesn’t allow you to speak for all or to be necessarily an authority on all things connected with the military.

The Kurds did a lot of the fighting and dying regarding ISIS. They had our back and foolishly assumed the same in return. A lesson taught once again, the US is not a good ally.


I have NEVER used my service as evidence that I am an expert on anything other than what my service actually entailed , which was mostly being an MP assigned to a multi jurisdiction drug task force. I don't claim that it has any bearing on this topic at all.

You are correct, the Kurds DID fight ISIS, but so have the Turks, which would make BOTH of them our allies. Except that in actuality only one is a member of NATO , and even though I don't believe they should be , they are.

Imagine this scenario. Imagine that when we announced that we were going into Afghanistan to fight AQ that let's say England said "no you can't do that, because the Afghan people helped us once and so we have to protect them" and then sent their military into Afghanistan to fight us............ WTF kinda fucked up shit would that be?

The Kurds are protecting the PKE, if they wanted they could simply tell the US, we will abandon the PKE, but they won't, why not? Could it be because like most US allies they are only our allies when it suits them?

[NightTrain]

The purpose of Turkey's operation is to clear a 20 mile swath on the Syrian side of the border with Turkey.

The plan is to then export the millions of Syrian refugees back into Syria, where they belong. These are the same millions of muslims that were attempting to cross through Turkey into Europe, and God knows they certainly don't need more muslims running amok there.

I imagine that Turkey looks upon the roughly 3.6 million Syrian refugees as a massive pain in the ass, and a considerable financial & logistical headache and I don't blame Turkey for wanting to repatriate them. IMO, Erogadan is a scumbag, but naturally he doesn't want to feed and house millions of unvetted refugees who probably hate you to begin with. No logical person does.

The Kurds have been openly fighting Turkey from within Turkey for a long time now. They've fought the Syrians from within Syria. They've fought Iraqis from within Iraq. This has been going on for decades now, if not centuries. They are not helpless little kittens caught in a War Zone, unable to defend themselves.

I'm sure that we could investigate different clans in Yemen and identify some Good Guys there to insert our troops and support to fight the Houthis, too. That doesn't mean we should.



Some of you are acting like the Kurds were just hanging out, peacefully minding their own business and the CIA parachuted in with a bribe to begin attacking ISIS.

That's not what went down. They were already in full fledged combat and they were the strongest ones to use as our proxies by supplying and supporting them even though some factions of the Kurds are officially recognized terrorists. No one signed a treaty or promised this non-state group that we'd bankroll and prop them up into perpetuity.

If the Kurds were smart, they'd withdraw and allow Turkey to establish that 20 mile buffer, because it's going to happen one way or the other. There's a lot of refugees inbound shortly.

[Drummond]

I'll remember this next time any of you have any opinion outside of anything you're not a verified expert in. btw, what office have you held at the national level in England? You seem to hold a lot of Brexit opinions.

You seem not to like it when your lack of consistency is pointed out to you.

'A lot' of Brexit opinions ? I'm not following that. I hold AN opinion. I have that right; yes, really. Any UK citizen has a right to hold an opinion, or opinion(s), about Brexit !! Why does this concern you ?

Perhaps, being a Leftie, you think that mine should be fully in lockstep with Brussels ? 'Sorry' to disappoint you on that one. Or, perhaps ...


.. what office have you held at the national level in England?

... you think I'm not allowed an opinion, unless I'm 'authorised' to hold one ?

Pete -- since I'm not a Leftie myself, I don't feel any duty to look around for some propaganda source I'll feel I must be loyal to. I have views. I have a right to them, as someone with his OWN mind.

Do you understand ?

[jimnyc]

Was never a fan of Rand, much less so his dad. Regardless, I think he makes some valid points here.

---

Sen. Rand Paul: Pulling U.S. Troops from Syria Could Make It More Likely That Kurds Will Find Peace

(CNSNews.com) – The Kurds are more likely to find peace with Turkey in Syria now that President Donald Trump has decided to pull U.S. troops from Syria, Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) told “CBS This Morning” on Thursday.

When asked whether the United States has turned its back on its allies and left itself in a vulnerable position with ISIS, Paul said, “I think initially when President Trump decided to go in, he said that our goal was to defeat ISIS. I think we've achieved that goal. Many people keep shifting the goalposts.

“Many of the neo-conservatives like Lindsey Graham say, oh, now we're going to stay until Iran goes or until Syria's a country. Well, good luck. I mean, that could be a long time. It's a very complicated war, and really think about what we're talking about. We're talking about 50 soldiers. What kind of war do you go to with 50 soldiers?” he asked.

“I mean, we're moving 50 soldiers out of the onslaught of tens of thousands of Turkish troops, so really I think it's a smart thing to do, and it reminds me of Beirut. Do you remember putting 300 people – when Reagan had 300 people in a barracks unprotected, and then there was a suicide bombing,” the senator said.

“What I don't want to have happen -- I've got three nephews who serve in the military, I don't want them to be sitting ducks with 50 or 100 of them being killed by a suicide bomber and then all of a sudden, we're drug into a greater war. Who are we going to fight? Are we gonna fight Turkey, our NATO ally? Are we gonna fight the Kurds? Are we gonna fight Assad, the Russians, the Iranians, the Iraqis? I mean the whole place is a mess,” Paul said.

“But the Kurds have been very loyal allies to us,” CBS’s Anthony Mason said.

“But what we need is not 50 soldiers fighting a war. What we need is a multilateral group to sit down and try to hammer out a piece. I actually think the Kurds are more likely to try to find peace now that they know they're going to have to fight or find peace, so I think really maybe we have been impeding peace talks, maybe this can encourage peace talks,” Paul said.

On the topic of the impeachment inquiry, Paul was asked whether he thinks it was appropriate for Trump to solicit foreign help in the 2020 campaign or whether he thinks it was inappropriate but just not impeachable.

“I think that the American people want everybody to be treated equally, and so I think when they see Joe Biden doing similar, with similar accusations, that Joe Biden threatened their aid, if they didn't fire a prosecutor that was looking into a company where Hunter Biden was making $50,000 a month, so I would say if that's going on and then Democrat senators are also threatening the aid, and now … they’re President Trump threatened the aid, sounds like everybody is threatening Ukraine's aid over Ukraine doing what they want them to do,” Paul said.

Rest - https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/melanie-arter/sen-rand-paul-pulling-us-troops-syria-could-make-it-more-likely-kurds

[Abbey Marie]

Was never a fan of Rand, much less so his dad. Regardless, I think he makes some valid points here.

---

Sen. Rand Paul: Pulling U.S. Troops from Syria Could Make It More Likely That Kurds Will Find Peace

(CNSNews.com) – The Kurds are more likely to find peace with Turkey in Syria now that President Donald Trump has decided to pull U.S. troops from Syria, Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) told “CBS This Morning” on Thursday.

When asked whether the United States has turned its back on its allies and left itself in a vulnerable position with ISIS, Paul said, “I think initially when President Trump decided to go in, he said that our goal was to defeat ISIS. I think we've achieved that goal. Many people keep shifting the goalposts.

“Many of the neo-conservatives like Lindsey Graham say, oh, now we're going to stay until Iran goes or until Syria's a country. Well, good luck. I mean, that could be a long time. It's a very complicated war, and really think about what we're talking about. We're talking about 50 soldiers. What kind of war do you go to with 50 soldiers?” he asked.

“I mean, we're moving 50 soldiers out of the onslaught of tens of thousands of Turkish troops, so really I think it's a smart thing to do, and it reminds me of Beirut. Do you remember putting 300 people – when Reagan had 300 people in a barracks unprotected, and then there was a suicide bombing,” the senator said.

“What I don't want to have happen -- I've got three nephews who serve in the military, I don't want them to be sitting ducks with 50 or 100 of them being killed by a suicide bomber and then all of a sudden, we're drug into a greater war. Who are we going to fight? Are we gonna fight Turkey, our NATO ally? Are we gonna fight the Kurds? Are we gonna fight Assad, the Russians, the Iranians, the Iraqis? I mean the whole place is a mess,” Paul said.

“But the Kurds have been very loyal allies to us,” CBS’s Anthony Mason said.

“But what we need is not 50 soldiers fighting a war. What we need is a multilateral group to sit down and try to hammer out a piece. I actually think the Kurds are more likely to try to find peace now that they know they're going to have to fight or find peace, so I think really maybe we have been impeding peace talks, maybe this can encourage peace talks,” Paul said.

On the topic of the impeachment inquiry, Paul was asked whether he thinks it was appropriate for Trump to solicit foreign help in the 2020 campaign or whether he thinks it was inappropriate but just not impeachable.

“I think that the American people want everybody to be treated equally, and so I think when they see Joe Biden doing similar, with similar accusations, that Joe Biden threatened their aid, if they didn't fire a prosecutor that was looking into a company where Hunter Biden was making $50,000 a month, so I would say if that's going on and then Democrat senators are also threatening the aid, and now … they’re President Trump threatened the aid, sounds like everybody is threatening Ukraine's aid over Ukraine doing what they want them to do,” Paul said.

Rest - https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/melanie-arter/sen-rand-paul-pulling-us-troops-syria-could-make-it-more-likely-kurds

Moving the goal posts is an apt phrase for all the Monday morning QBs weighing in on the Kurds and Turks. Except now they don’t even wait until Monday morning. It’s more like pre-game QB-ing.
I would remind them that very, very few people are privvy to the info the President gets every day.

[STTAB]

Moving the goal posts is an apt phrase for all the Monday morning QBs weighing in on the Kurds and Turks. Except now they don’t even wait until Monday morning. It’s more like pre-game QB-ing.
I would remind them that very, very few people are privy to the info the President gets every day.

And that this is actually very in line with his campaign promise of "America first" What US national interest would telling Turkey that they can't protect their own self interests serve?

[Kathianne]

Moving the goal posts is an apt phrase for all the Monday morning QBs weighing in on the Kurds and Turks. Except now they don’t even wait until Monday morning. It’s more like pre-game QB-ing.
I would remind them that very, very few people are privvy to the info the President gets every day.

How dull a world it would be if everyone just went, "Praise the Lord for our great and wondrous President." We'd be in Beijing then.

[Abbey Marie]

And that this is actually very in line with his campaign promise of "America first" What US national interest would telling Turkey that they can't protect their own self interests serve?

And I’ve always heard we are especially careful with Turkey because we really want to keep our airbase there. Do we still have one there? Again, as I believe AT said, we don’t know what we don’t know.

[Kathianne]

Too far? What's too far? Isn't this the safe zone that Turkey needs against the killer Kurds?

https://www.foxnews.com/world/trump-turkey-syria-kurdish-troops-military-assault


SYRIAPublished 1 day agoLast Update 23 hours ago
Trump calls Turkey assault on Syria a 'bad idea,' at least 7 civilians reported dead
Greg NormanBy Greg Norman | Fox News

President Trump called Turkey's ongoing military assault in Syria a "bad idea" Wednesday as activists and war monitor reported at least seven civilians killed in the strikes.


Trump's comments come hours after Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan announced the launch of Operation Peace Spring -- a mission that will "neutralize terror threats against Turkey and lead to the establishment of a safe zone, facilitating the return of Syrian refugees to their homes," escalating the long-standing feud between Ankara and Kurdish forces.




Trump was heavily criticized throughout the week following his decision Sunday to pull American troops out of northern Syria, leaving the Kurdish forces -- who have been longtime U.S. allies in the fight against ISIS in Syria -- in peril. Ankara views the Syrian Kurdish forces as terrorists allied with a Kurdish insurgency within Turkey.


"The United States does not endorse this attack and has made it clear to Turkey that this operation is a bad idea," Trump said in a statement released by the White House. "Turkey has committed to protecting civilians, protecting religious minorities, including Christians, and ensuring no humanitarian crisis takes place—and we will hold them to this commitment."


"There are no American soldiers in the area," he added.

...



Never fear, we can always hit them economically...

[NightTrain]

Too far? What's too far? Isn't this the safe zone that Turkey needs against the killer Kurds?

https://www.foxnews.com/world/trump-turkey-syria-kurdish-troops-military-assault


Never fear, we can always hit them economically...


Cool.

What's your solution?

[Kathianne]

Cool.

What's your solution?
When I run, I'll let you know.

[jimnyc]

Perhaps now we should go to a full scale war against Turkey? I mean, they are screwing us, and wanting to eliminate the Kurds. We should have their backs and bombard Turkey for 500 miles along the border.

[pete311]

Facts from a republican

12223

[jimnyc]

Cool.

What's your solution?

I laid mine out several times and ways! Folks think staying forever and leaving a minimal amount of forces possible to hold off against an inevitable onslaught. And since we can't do anything with just 50 soldiers, we should bombard the F out of Turkey, and can even do so without any troops on the ground.

[Kathianne]

Perhaps now we should go to a full scale war against Turkey? I mean, they are screwing us, and wanting to eliminate the Kurds. We should have their backs and bombard Turkey for 500 miles along the border.

Why? Turkey just did what they plainly said they would do.

[pete311]

I laid mine out several times and ways! Folks think staying forever and leaving a minimal amount of forces possible to hold off against an inevitable onslaught. And since we can't do anything with just 50 soldiers, we should bombard the F out of Turkey, and can even do so without any troops on the ground.

Turkey has the 2nd largest NATO army, think about that for a second. Yeah we are much bigger, but we couldn't even take out some cave men in Afganistan.

[Kathianne]

I laid mine out several times and ways! Folks think staying forever and leaving a minimal amount of forces possible to hold off against an inevitable onslaught. And since we can't do anything with just 50 soldiers, we should bombard the F out of Turkey, and can even do so without any troops on the ground.

Do you think that Turkey was going to do this on their own, without agreement by the US to allow the extermination of the terrorists, those same 'terrorists' that up until now have been working with the US?

[pete311]

We would never bomb Turkey as Trump has a tower in Instanbul.

[jimnyc]

Turkey has the 2nd largest NATO army, think about that for a second. Yeah we are much bigger, but we couldn't even take out some cave men in Afganistan.

And 50 soldiers were expected to fend them off? That's insanity.

[jimnyc]

We would never bomb Turkey as Trump has a tower in Instanbul.

That sure does add a lot to the conversation. Perhaps more so if someone were a conspiracy theorist. :rolleyes:

For 5 seconds there I thought you were going to be a reasonable poster today. How stupid of me. :dunno:

We should make a map now then, a list of all the countries that are safe via hotels, and those perhaps in danger as no Trump hotels there.

[Kathianne]

And 50 soldiers were expected to fend them off? That's insanity.

Turkey was threatening our soldiers? That is why the President made this agreement?

[jimnyc]

Turkey was threatening our soldiers? That is why the President made this agreement?

I said nothing of the sort, on either of those.

[Kathianne]

I said nothing of the sort, on either of those.

Then I misunderstood. It seemed that the implication was that if the US didn't get those soldiers out of there, Turkey would get them with the Kurds.

[Kathianne]

38 minutes ago the president tweeted: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1182387198164946944?s=20

It seems that mediating a 'deal' would have been the best choice-BEFORE abandoning the Kurds. Just me.

[pete311]

38 minutes ago the president tweeted: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1182387198164946944?s=20

It seems that mediating a 'deal' would have been the best choice-BEFORE abandoning the Kurds. Just me.

He doesn't have plans or a foreign policy. Erdoğan literally just called him up and out negotiated him. Whispered something sweet in Trump's ear and he said, ok whatever, without even thinking or asking for advise from his generals.

[icansayit]

He doesn't have plans or a foreign policy. Erdoğan literally just called him up and out negotiated him. Whispered something sweet in Trump's ear and he said, ok whatever, without even thinking or asking for advise from his generals.



In reference to your quaint quote above....Were you there? Were you on the phone, in the same room? Tell us HONESTLY. What did Erdogan WHISPER in the President's ear?

YOU MADE THE CLAIM....So...spit it out. HONESTY ONLY, NOT FABRICATION, or OPINION. Just...As they say:"The Facts!"

You can tell us now....is that YOU? "ADAM SCHIFF-LESS?"

[jimnyc]

In reference to your quaint quote above....Were you there? Were you on the phone, in the same room? Tell us HONESTLY. What did Erdogan WHISPER in the President's ear?

YOU MADE THE CLAIM....So...spit it out. HONESTY ONLY, NOT FABRICATION, or OPINION. Just...As they say:"The Facts!"

You can tell us now....is that YOU? "ADAM SCHIFF-LESS?"

Pete and facts aren't exactly the best of friends. :)

[NightTrain]

Great message for future allies in bad neighborhoods. Kurds did most of the work getting rid of ISIS in Iraq/Syria, the so called 'destruction of Caliphate.' Now we let Turkey take over not only the prisoners we took, but overrun the Kurds.

Wow, just great foreign policy and makes all the blood & treasure that was spent a waste.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-turkeys-syria-invasion-trump-pelosi-schiff-impeached


The Kurds did most of the fighting and have mostly taken command of the isis prisoners. We are selling them out to the Turks


Ummm, I care about the Kurds. I also care about the translators that served good.

What you you all are now in favor of is use whoever and leave ‘me. This is what everyone was up in arms about when Obama did it. Between that and this we have earned a reputation for just not supporting those that served us. That’s well earned now.


I’m pretty sure the only happy man here is the Turkish strongman.

I see see the President has been tweeting up a storm. Yeah, he’ll take on Turkey if they go after the Kurds. Uh Huh.


While I'm so furious with the Democrats behavior I'd nearly vote for President Trump to spite them, his foreign policy, unlike his speeches in foreign locations, leaves me cold. I think he's a disaster on the foreign/diplomatic fronts.


Yeah, his policies with Chinazi has been exemplary. :rolleyes:


I think we should honor those that stood and fought with us when all those others couldn't - wouldn't.


For some reason I don't think there would be so many generals and such as upset as they are if they thought there really won't be repercussions from pulling those troops-whatever the number.

Do not be surprised to find that ISIS prisoners are freed shortly, to return to the fight.


So the Kurds will take care of Turkey, oh yes.


Yep, Turkish strongman said he wanted to get rid of Kurds in area. Our president said, 'let's get our guys out of the way.' So be it.


Seems a deal with Erdogon had been reached and a deal made. Winning! Indeed, President dictator Erdogon is invited to visit with our President next month. (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/erdogan-trump-to-meet-in-washington-on-november-13-147279)

[quote=Kathianne]While there seems only two here that think this was a dishonorable action, in the great scheme of things, we're not alone.


Has nothing to do with very bad decisions, which the Kurd situation is. Actually it's just the worst of quite a few that I have found very bad.


Will be history when they're done, then it won't matter anymore. Practical and tough! Winning!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/erdogan-109-terrorists-killed-in-syria-push/ar-AAIyvIz


3 years now, how long does 'Obama did _________' excuse bad decisions? I know that we all got very tired of Obama pulling it on Bush.

We should be pro-Hong Kong, at least verbally. Moreso with the Kurds.


Yeah, 'we've done it before,' right? Go after the $$$, winning!



The Kurds did a lot of the fighting and dying regarding ISIS. They had our back and foolishly assumed the same in return. A lesson taught once again, the US is not a good ally.


How dull a world it would be if everyone just went, "Praise the Lord for our great and wondrous President." We'd be in Beijing then.


Turkey was threatening our soldiers? That is why the President made this agreement?


It seems that mediating a 'deal' would have been the best choice-BEFORE abandoning the Kurds. Just me.


Too far? What's too far? Isn't this the safe zone that Turkey needs against the killer Kurds?

https://www.foxnews.com/world/trump-turkey-syria-kurdish-troops-military-assault


Never fear, we can always hit them economically...



Cool.

What's your solution?


When I run, I'll let you know.

This is a bullshit response, given your constant gutter sniping of a very complex situation. You've even shamed Pete for your level of TDS.

You know, Kathi, I like you, usually. But you've gone headlong into embracing the TDS that you've had since 2015 and it's apparently festered to the point that you're a different person. It's clouding the wisdom and intelligence that I know you have within you.

You aren't responding to reason anymore, this is an illogical visceral reaction. At the risk of being misogynistic, you are behaving like some women do after meeting another woman who is ordinarily reasonable and yet, get a gut reaction that they hate that woman and there is absolutely nothing possible on this earth that can change that opinion.

Kathi of the past would have presented reasonable alternatives, or even wondered aloud about possible solutions to discuss.

When outright asked what alternative you might propose, as my heat rises from your TDS, you pretty much told me to go fuck myself.

You hate Trump, and that's that.

An honest way to proceed for you is to preface every statement with "I fucking HATE Trump! I hate his hair! Orange Man Bad! His acting in Home Alone was forced and I hate that trenchcoat! ...but this is what I think :"

I know PedoPete™ has enjoyed having Kathi as an ally for the Orange Man Bad campaign. Encouraged, he is, rising and gibbering from the corner with desperate hope in his eyes from support by someone that is exalted around here.

Seriously, if I didn't know the personalities here and were a brand new person browsing this thread, I would immediately identify the top TDS poster of this board as Kathianne.

I won't even go into your sources - one had an apology and I get that you were rushed. I suspect you're reading those news outlets and your views are reflecting your desire to hate Trump by reading Trump-hating media because it soothes your TDS.

You are not objective by any stretch. You are not responding to reasonable posts when they contradict your view that Orange Man Bad.

With all of your criticisms culled from this thread only, and your response for me to fuck off, I will ask you again : What should the USA do?

Trump is damned if he does, and he's damned if he doesn't. I know you recognize this, whether or not you admit it.

[pete311]

Trump is damned if he does, and he's damned if he doesn't. I know you recognize this, whether or not you admit it.

And to many here he is God if he does, God if he doesn't. Everything he does, you spin as the right decision.

[Kathianne]

Seems a deal with Erdogon had been reached and a deal made. Winning! Indeed, President dictator Erdogon is invited to visit with our President next month. (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/erdogan-trump-to-meet-in-washington-on-november-13-147279)


This is a bullshit response, given your constant gutter sniping of a very complex situation. You've even shamed Pete for your level of TDS.

You know, Kathi, I like you, usually. But you've gone headlong into embracing the TDS that you've had since 2015 and it's apparently festered to the point that you're a different person. It's clouding the wisdom and intelligence that I know you have within you.

You aren't responding to reason anymore, this is an illogical visceral reaction. At the risk of being misogynistic, you are behaving like some women do after meeting another woman who is ordinarily reasonable and yet, get a gut reaction that they hate that woman and there is absolutely nothing possible on this earth that can change that opinion.

Kathi of the past would have presented reasonable alternatives, or even wondered aloud about possible solutions to discuss.

When outright asked what alternative you might propose, as my heat rises from your TDS, you pretty much told me to go fuck myself.

You hate Trump, and that's that.

An honest way to proceed for you is to preface every statement with "I fucking HATE Trump! I hate his hair! Orange Man Bad! His acting in Home Alone was forced and I hate that trenchcoat! ...but this is what I think :"

I know PedoPete™ has enjoyed having Kathi as an ally for the Orange Man Bad campaign. Encouraged, he is, rising and gibbering from the corner with desperate hope in his eyes from support by someone that is exalted around here.

Seriously, if I didn't know the personalities here and were a brand new person browsing this thread, I would immediately identify the top TDS poster of this board as Kathianne.

I won't even go into your sources - one had an apology and I get that you were rushed. I suspect you're reading those news outlets and your views are reflecting your desire to hate Trump by reading Trump-hating media because it soothes your TDS.

You are not objective by any stretch. You are not responding to reasonable posts when they contradict your view that Orange Man Bad.

With all of your criticisms culled from this thread only, and your response for me to fuck off, I will ask you again : What should the USA do?

Trump is damned if he does, and he's damned if he doesn't. I know you recognize this, whether or not you admit it.

8


I still like you, sorry it's not reciprocated over politics. Yesterday you told me to basically STFU towards discussions with you because you felt I wasn't up to your standards. I said, 'Ok.' Today you want me to put forth foreign policy. No. I'm not running. I have a right to judge elected leaders decisions.

If I don't 'like' the President, you find absolutely not a thing wrong with him. Nothing. He really could kill someone and you'd likely say, "They had it coming." I could care about his hair, I think you may get upset that I don't get nutty when he is nutty, which has not a thing to do with his hair.

You've always ignored the positives I've seen that he's done, but go apologetic when I find fault. Ah well, like I said earlier, I know what I think and you do not get to define me, anymore than I do you or anyone else. Oh yes, we can expound on politicians or other public figures, one opinion is worth another as far as they will earn us.

Perhaps 25 times I've said that there are many domestic things he's done that I thought would not fly. He did those and they've been good for the country. I've said all along, he's a disaster in foreign affairs, though his speeches 'over there,' have been among his best. He has done a great job, better than any other President of collecting monies owed by our 'allies' in NATO and UN.

Sorry, somehow I screwed up the quotes, so did the best I could to separate out our two convos.

[Kathianne]

Our NATO pal, he's speaking to other NATO members here. How dare they dis him:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-security-turkey-europe/turkeys-erdogan-threatens-to-send-syrian-refugees-to-europe-idUSKBN1WP1ED


WORLD NEWSOCTOBER 10, 2019 / 3:41 AM / UPDATED 13 HOURS AGO
Turkey's Erdogan threatens to send Syrian refugees to Europe

ANKARA (Reuters) - President Tayyip Erdogan said on Thursday Ankara will send the 3.6 million Syrian refugees in Turkey to Europe if European countries label the country’s military incursion in Syria as an occupation.


“We will open the gates and send 3.6 million refugees your way,” Erdogan said in speech to lawmakers from his AK Party.



Good news is that we've stopped giving exact intel to Turkey earlier this week. Hopefully what we already gave up until then, didn't hurt. :rolleyes:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/09/world/middleeast/turkey-attacks-syria.html

[NightTrain]

I still like you, sorry it's not reciprocated over politics.

I didn't say I didn't like you. If I didn't like you, I would speak to you as I do Pete or Gabby.


Yesterday you told me to basically STFU towards discussions with you because you felt I wasn't up to your standards.

That's not at all what I said or implied. You clearly didn't read, and certainly didn't respond to what I said.

Suggest you re-read.


Today you want me to put forth foreign policy. No. I'm not running. I have a right to judge elected leaders decisions.

It's real easy to criticize. You've been hurling fire and flame at this situation, heaping scorn on Trump.

It was a valid question to you asking what you'd do differently, especially given that this President made a campaign promise to remove us from such misadventures.

If anything, Trump takes his campaign promises seriously, as opposed to any other President in my lifetime.

I like that. A lot.


If I don't 'like' the President, you find absolutely not a thing wrong with him. Nothing. He really could kill someone and you'd likely say, "They had it coming." I could care about his hair, I think you may get upset that I don't get nutty when he is nutty, which has not a thing to do with his hair.

No. Increasing the debt and signing off on that budget pissed me off, as I said at the time.

Allowing Mattis to leave was a mistake, and I expressed my disappointment at the time. This was over Syria and I trust Mattis' military wisdom over Trump's, but the Boss overruled. There's a reason we have Civilian command of our Armed Forces, and while I think the world of Jim Mattis, there are other factors involved.

Trump made the promise that he'd get us out of Syria after ISIS was defeated, and it is. Yeah, there's a few pockets of ISIS still there, but does that mop-up require US military assets? Apparently the CiC thinks not.

And he's got a real good grasp on the situation from the best intel in the world.




You've always ignored the positives I've seen that he's done, but go apologetic when I find fault. Ah well, like I said earlier, I know what I think and you do not get to define me, anymore than I do you or anyone else. Oh yes, we can expound on politicians or other public figures, one opinion is worth another as far as they will earn us.

You pounce on perceived shortcomings of Trump and remain silent on successes. Just like Pete.


Perhaps 25 times I've said that there are many domestic things he's done that I thought would not fly. He did those and they've been good for the country. I've said all along, he's a disaster in foreign affairs, though his speeches 'over there,' have been among his best. He has done a great job, better than any other President of collecting monies owed by our 'allies' in NATO and UN.

You're Anti-Trump. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

If you happen to say something in favor of Trump, it's begrudgingly and backhanded and you clearly don't like saying it, and it's the result of someone asking you directly.

Just admit it and say you hate Orange Man and let's be done with it. You won't be swayed, even as Pete won't be swayed.

[Kathianne]

I didn't say I didn't like you. If I didn't like you, I would speak to you as I do Pete or Gabby.



That's not at all what I said or implied. You clearly didn't read, and certainly didn't respond to what I said.

Suggest you re-read.



It's real easy to criticize. You've been hurling fire and flame at this situation, heaping scorn on Trump.

It was a valid question to you asking what you'd do differently, especially given that this President made a campaign promise to remove us from such misadventures.

If anything, Trump takes his campaign promises seriously, as opposed to any other President in my lifetime.

I like that. A lot.

No. Increasing the debt and signing off on that budget pissed me off, as I said at the time.

Allowing Mattis to leave was a mistake, and I expressed my disappointment at the time. This was over Syria and I trust Mattis' military wisdom over Trump's, but the Boss overruled. There's a reason we have Civilian command of our Armed Forces, and while I think the world of Jim Mattis, there are other factors involved.

Trump made the promise that he'd get us out of Syria after ISIS was defeated, and it is. Yeah, there's a few pockets of ISIS still there, but does that mop-up require US military assets? Apparently the CiC thinks not.

And he's got a real good grasp on the situation from the best intel in the world.



You pounce on perceived shortcomings of Trump and remain silent on successes. Just like Pete.



You're Anti-Trump. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

If you happen to say something in favor of Trump, it's begrudgingly and backhanded and you clearly don't like saying it, and it's the result of someone asking you directly.

Just admit it and say you hate Orange Man and let's be done with it. You won't be swayed, even as Pete won't be swayed.



Sorry, if you'd like to do a deep quote like you did to make your point, you'd find them. I don't expect you to, nor would I put it in such a way.

It is easy to criticize on the Kurds and Hong Kong. He's wrong. Now he is saying, "The State Department is looking into what Turkey is doing. . ." If I could predict, lord knows he was warned. Like Mattis did and then left.

I haven't a problem with your worship of the President. Not worship? Then don't say I'm like Pete and never point out the positives, which I did above.

Pretty much you have said you don't like me, you certainly have posted like that. In fact, you and LTG might have some fun together.

[NightTrain]

And to many here he is God if he does, God if he doesn't. Everything he does, you spin as the right decision.

No.

On another subject, Pete, how do you like Kathianne helping you with the Orange Man Bad effort? Pretty cool, huh?

[NightTrain]

Sorry, if you'd like to do a deep quote like you did to make your point, you'd find them. I don't expect you to, nor would I put it in such a way.

I have no idea what this means.

WTF is a deep quote?


I haven't a problem with your worship of the President. Not worship? Then don't say I'm like Pete and never point out the positives, which I did above.

You have a definite Pete-like facet in that Orange Man Bad. You can't deny this, and if you do, before you say otherwise just look back in your posts on this board.

I just reposted a lot of anti-Trump posts from YOUR POSTS HERE IN THIS THREAD, and they were quite a few.

In fact, they outnumber pete's gibberings.

That's something.


I haven't a problem with your worship of the President. Not worship? Then don't say I'm like Pete and never point out the positives, which I did above.

Worship? I'll call out Trump the moment he does something that I don't like. I've done it, and I'll do it again.

You, on the other hand, Kathi, are living the Orange Man Bad dream.

Enjoy that MSNBC lineup. They'll continue to give you more Orange Man Bad and I can't wait to see your next impartial, logical installment of Orange Man Bad.

Perhaps you can collaborate with Pete - spoiler alert - he'll tell you Orange Man Bad. Go ahead and run with it.


Pretty much you have said you don't like me, you certainly have posted like that. In fact, you and LTG might have some fun together.

No, up to this point I was trying to come to a logical agreement.

There is no reasoning with you. Orange Man Bad.

[Kathianne]

I have no idea what this means.

WTF is a deep quote?



You have a definite Pete-like facet in that Orange Man Bad. You can't deny this, and if you do, before you say otherwise just look back in your posts on this board.

I just reposted a lot of anti-Trump posts from YOUR POSTS HERE IN THIS THREAD, and they were quite a few.

In fact, they outnumber pete's gibberings.

That's something.

[/COLOR]

Worship? I'll call out Trump the moment he does something that I don't like. I've done it, and I'll do it again.

You, on the other hand, Kathi, are living the Orange Man Bad dream.

Enjoy that MSNBC lineup. They'll continue to give you more Orange Man Bad and I can't wait to see your next impartial, logical installment of Orange Man Bad.

Perhaps you can collaborate with Pete - spoiler alert - he'll tell you Orange Man Bad. Go ahead and run with it.



No, up to this point I was trying to come to a logical agreement.

There is no reasoning with you. Orange Man Bad.


LOL! You got it down, no doubt about it. Ah well, I'm not going to go round and round. We did that yesterday. Feel free to follow me so closely, but for the time being I'm taking a break while I do feel kindly towards you. Related to that, you might want to catch the Ellen video post to her haters from the left, all because she like GW as a person.

[NightTrain]

LOL! You got it down, no doubt about it.

I know.


Ah well, I'm not going to go round and round. We did that yesterday.

We didn't, actually.

I grew weary of your simplistic criticisms of a complex issue and called you out on it.

You bailed with a weak bullshit response that you're not the President after dozens of complaints.

You admitted that you don't know what else to do.

But clearly, you want to commit thousands of US soldiers into the meat grinder for some nebulous reason that you can't even express here on this board after being directly asked.


Feel free to follow me so closely, but for the time being I'm taking a break while I do feel kindly towards you.

I'm not following you closely, your antics and shenanigans in this thread caused me to quote you.

I do that. I will use your very words against you.

You should know this by now. I did it before with you and Gunny.

I don't follow you closely; I don't need to. This is all right here on the board whenever I want it. When your TDS happens to piss me off, I'll just dip into the board and gain what I need from your own words.

The best convictions are those gained by their own words.

Don't you agree?


Related to that, you might want to catch the Ellen video post to her haters from the left, all because she like GW as a person.

I really don't care about the gay community, but she seems okay. Do what you do and leave me alone.

[Elessar]

A bunch of ouches on this page. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail.

[Kathianne]

A bunch of ouches on this page. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail.
I'm cool. Going to keep doing what I do. ;)

[icansayit]

As a retired, 30 year Navy veteran of two wars, with the names of six I knew, and grew up with on a WALL in Washington D.C...knowing, and I am reminded almost daily "There, but for the grace of GOD go I", when I hear so many Fellow Americans who have never worn the uniform, or seen a Military Funeral, who claim to have all of the Lone Remedies for how our President operates. All I can say to you is. UNTIL you have lost a friend, or relative to any military Action our Nation has provided Blood, Sweat, and TEARS...as I have.

YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO DETERMINE, OR PREDICT WHAT OTHER AMERICANS IN UNIFORM SHOULD DO. PERIOD.

I am personally very sick, and weary of so many SELF-PROFESSED, unknowing, professional tongue wagging know-nothings. May you all (if this offends, or insults you in any way), learn to put your Mind in Gear, before putting your Mouth, or your fingers on a keyboard...IN MOTION. Otherwise. Respect your right to remain quiet. PLEASE?

[Kathianne]

As a retired, 30 year Navy veteran of two wars, with the names of six I knew, and grew up with on a WALL in Washington D.C...knowing, and I am reminded almost daily "There, but for the grace of GOD go I", when I hear so many Fellow Americans who have never worn the uniform, or seen a Military Funeral, who claim to have all of the Lone Remedies for how our President operates. All I can say to you is. UNTIL you have lost a friend, or relative to any military Action our Nation has provided Blood, Sweat, and TEARS...as I have.

YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO DETERMINE, OR PREDICT WHAT OTHER AMERICANS IN UNIFORM SHOULD DO. PERIOD.

I am personally very sick, and weary of so many SELF-PROFESSED, unknowing, professional tongue wagging know-nothings. May you all (if this offends, or insults you in any way), learn to put your Mind in Gear, before putting your Mouth, or your fingers on a keyboard...IN MOTION. Otherwise. Respect your right to remain quiet. PLEASE?

:fu:It's still the US today, so we get to say what we like on what we like. You can STFU!

[NightTrain]

:fu:It's still the US today, so we get to say what we like on what we like. You can STFU!


Classy.

[Kathianne]

Watched Shannon Bream after the speech. She had on an ally of the President that said he didn't really mean what he said about the Kurds not being in WWII like others, though not Turkey either. He wasn't really talking about WWII at all.

He meant that Turkey is in NATO and is a formal ally, unlike the Kurds. Turkey made it clear last week to the President that they were coming in, no matter if we had troops in Syria or not. So I was wrong, Trump had no choice but to get our soldiers out of the way, Turkey would have killed some of them.

[Kathianne]

Related to that, is that Turkey and Iran may well be working together, against Israel. Who'd have ever thought that? Again, it seems that since we don't want to defend, we had no choice.

https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2019/october/this-is-in-many-ways-a-jihad-middle-east-bureau-chief-chris-mitchell-explains-turkish-invasion-of-syria


WORLD
CBNNEWS.COM


'This Is in Many Ways a Jihad': Middle East Bureau Chief Chris Mitchell Explains Turkish Invasion of Syria
10-10-2019
CBN News

ANALYSIS


CBN News Middle East Bureau Chief Chris Mitchell reports that the Turkish invasion of northern Syria is not really a well-intentioned attempt to fight terrorists. He says there's actually a strong element of Islamic jihad at the heart of Turkey's agenda.


Mitchell has reported in recent years from Kobani in northern Syria and has firsthand knowledge of these Kurdish allies of America. He offered insightful analysis on Thursday's 700 Club about the situation.

He explains that northern Syria is one of the few spots where an early democratic form of government has been taking root in the aftermath of Syria's horrific civil war, and Turkey's invasion will likely put an end to that.


He says Turkey's tyrannical President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is using jihadist allies to launch a war against the Kurdish forces that fought the war against ISIS with the US. And there's another element of the population at stake: the persecuted Christians of Syria.

...

[icansayit]

:fu:It's still the US today, so we get to say what we like on what we like. You can STFU!


I didn't say anything about YOU, or anyone else not being able to offer your opinion, or free speech. I simply pointed out that so many come here expecting we DEPLORABLES to remain quiet if we want to offer ours.

You didn't honestly read what I said...as I would expect an Honorable American would, but instead sounded off to give yourself a few GLORIOUS moments of satisfaction for TELLING ME TO "STFU". How classy, and distinctly immature, and irressponsible that made you sound? Happy now?

[Noir]

I see Netanyahu is concerned of ethnic cleansing of the Kurdish people by the Turks. Didn’t take him for a Trump Basher, eh? :rolleyes:


YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO DETERMINE, OR PREDICT WHAT OTHER AMERICANS IN UNIFORM SHOULD DO. PERIOD.

Ain’t it really annoying when other people have opinions?

[Kathianne]

While it appears that the US didn't have a plan for this, Erdogan appears to have:

https://hotair.com/archives/jazz-shaw/2019/10/11/erdogans-syrian-resettlement-plan-every-bit-crazy-sounds/

[Drummond]

And to many here he is God if he does, God if he doesn't. Everything he does, you spin as the right decision.

You'll take any position it suits you to take, as long as putting the boot into Trump &/or the Republicans is the result of it. Pete, I can't wait to see you argue, during a future Dem Administration, that the President of that time was wrong to withdraw troops from any foreign location.

We both know that I'd NEVER see it. Only if it means attacking Trump would you argue for that.

[Kathianne]

Possible 'good' spin on the chess playing:

https://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/the-turkish-offensive/

[Drummond]

As a retired, 30 year Navy veteran of two wars, with the names of six I knew, and grew up with on a WALL in Washington D.C...knowing, and I am reminded almost daily "There, but for the grace of GOD go I", when I hear so many Fellow Americans who have never worn the uniform, or seen a Military Funeral, who claim to have all of the Lone Remedies for how our President operates. All I can say to you is. UNTIL you have lost a friend, or relative to any military Action our Nation has provided Blood, Sweat, and TEARS...as I have.

YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO DETERMINE, OR PREDICT WHAT OTHER AMERICANS IN UNIFORM SHOULD DO. PERIOD.

I am personally very sick, and weary of so many SELF-PROFESSED, unknowing, professional tongue wagging know-nothings. May you all (if this offends, or insults you in any way), learn to put your Mind in Gear, before putting your Mouth, or your fingers on a keyboard...IN MOTION. Otherwise. Respect your right to remain quiet. PLEASE?


I have respect for this view, above.

I believe that a measure of caution is required of those who offer views on geopolitical military matters, where it's not accompanied by expertise from the person giving it.

That said ... 'ordinary' people still have a right to their viewpoints. Receptiveness to those debating who DO have a level of insightful expertise should be a 'given'. But everyone has a right to a view.

Me ... I'm not a military man, & I have no military background whatever (I've made that clear before, on this forum). Hey -- I'm not even American !! But I hold to a view on all this which I believe I have a right to express.

I think it's a commonsense view, and a pretty obvious one, at that ...

Simply: I'm aware that only 50 troops have been withdrawn, and of course that's far too few for them to be an effective force against the military power currently being unleashed. That doesn't alter the fact that their withdrawal sent a message to Turkey, one encouraging them to launch their offensive.

Normally I'd be staunchly supportive of Trump - you have a great President there ! But in this, he's responsible for a bad error of judgment. He's failed to comprehend the way foreign powers, or foreign adversaries, interpret American actions. He's failed to weigh up the political balance existing in that region of the world, only putting short-term political considerations first.

Destabilisation of that region holds longer-term dangers. What if a re-emergence of ISIS comes out of it ?

This is a mess. I hope that Trump finds some good answer to it.

[Kathianne]

I have respect for this view, above.

I believe that a measure of caution is required of those who offer views on geopolitical military matters, where it's not accompanied by expertise from the person giving it.

That said ... 'ordinary' people still have a right to their viewpoints. Receptiveness to those debating who DO have a level of insightful expertise should be a 'given'. But everyone has a right to a view.

Me ... I'm not a military man, & I have no military background whatever (I've made that clear before, on this forum). Hey -- I'm not even American !! But I hold to a view on all this which I believe I have a right to express.

I think it's a commonsense view, and a pretty obvious one, at that ...

Simply: I'm aware that only 50 troops have been withdrawn, and of course that's far too few for them to be an effective force against the military power currently being unleashed. That doesn't alter the fact that their withdrawal sent a message to Turkey, one encouraging them to launch their offensive.

Normally I'd be staunchly supportive of Trump - you have a great President there ! But in this, he's responsible for a bad error of judgment. He's failed to comprehend the way foreign powers, or foreign adversaries, interpret American actions. He's failed to weigh up the political balance existing in that region of the world, only putting short-term political considerations first.

Destabilisation of that region holds longer-term dangers. What if a re-emergence of ISIS comes out of it ?

This is a mess. I hope that Trump finds some good answer to it.

See the bolded, it seems to some one only can mimic their view or they need to be silenced. Those that refuse to go along with the bullies and do not leave, well they will be f'd over with applause by the mob.

[Drummond]

I see Netanyahu is concerned of ethnic cleansing of the Kurdish people by the Turks. Didn’t take him for a Trump Basher, eh? :rolleyes:

[/CENTER]
Ain’t it really annoying when other people have opinions?

Ain't it really annoying, Noir, when some pass an opinion purely to further unstated opportunistic partisan objectives of their own, without being honest enough to admit the consequent 'worth' of what they're offering ?

[Kathianne]

Ain't it really annoying, Noir, when some pass an opinion purely to further unstated opportunistic partisan objectives of their own, without being honest enough to admit the consequent 'worth' of what they're offering ?
That I agree with, Pete being a prime example of that on the left.

Problem with partisanship, it flows on both sides.

No one is without fault, not me, not you, and certainly not elected officials. Not those on the left or on the right. Partisan worshipers allows those politicians to actualize their narcissism, from a Schiff to a president.

Indeed, without the worshipers, the elected officials might check themselves, but that would be interpreted by many partisans as selling out or being weak.

[Drummond]

See the bolded, it seems to some one only can mimic their view or they need to be silenced. Those that refuse to go along with the bullies and do not leave, well they will be f'd over with applause by the mob.

'Mob rule', of a sort ... not automatically a bad thing as such, BUT, frequently counterproductive.

In certain situations, group outrage expressed against a post which offers an idea or position that's thoroughly unreasonable, this can be a good thing. Strength of numbers in forming a 'clan' to present a unified stand against its originator can be something meritorious, in my view. It can be persuasive. Evidence of unified strength of feeling can offer useful lessons.

'Mob rule' for its own sake, though ... most especially to enforce a lack of freedom to express ideas, perspectives, opinions ... that's a very dangerous route to follow. I'd expect it of the Left, since it's fundamental to their methodology to groom people into only seeing what THEY want people to see. Those of a more 'right-of-centre' mindset should be much better than this ! We value freedom of expression and individual rights. When something's expressed, LET it be expressed, honestly and openly, then treated to the critical examination it deserves.

What are we here for, if not to swap ideas, perspectives, and debate their merits ?

[Kathianne]

'Mob rule', of a sort ... not automatically a bad thing as such, BUT, frequently counterproductive.

In certain situations, group outrage expressed against a post which offers an idea or position that's thoroughly unreasonable, this can be a good thing. Strength of numbers in forming a 'clan' to present a unified stand against its originator can be something meritorious, in my view. It can be persuasive. Evidence of unified strength of feeling can offer useful lessons.

'Mob rule' for its own sake, though ... most especially to enforce a lack of freedom to express ideas, perspectives, opinions ... that's a very dangerous route to follow. I'd expect it of the Left, since it's fundamental to their methodology to groom people into only seeing what THEY want people to see. Those of a more 'right-of-centre' mindset should be much better than this ! We value freedom of expression and individual rights. When something's expressed, LET it be expressed, honestly and openly, then treated to the critical examination it deserves.

What are we here for, if not to swap ideas, perspectives, and debate their merits ?

Agree with the need to hear other sides, but is way too dangerous if some were to fall away from the clan I guess. When the mob gathers to silence, there really isn't anything else to do than to amplify concerns.

[STTAB]

[QUOTE=Kathianne;944696] Seems a deal with Erdogon had been reached and a deal made. Winning! Indeed, President dictator Erdogon is invited to visit with our President next month. (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/erdogan-trump-to-meet-in-washington-on-november-13-147279)


















This is a bullshit response, given your constant gutter sniping of a very complex situation. You've even shamed Pete for your level of TDS.

You know, Kathi, I like you, usually. But you've gone headlong into embracing the TDS that you've had since 2015 and it's apparently festered to the point that you're a different person. It's clouding the wisdom and intelligence that I know you have within you.

You aren't responding to reason anymore, this is an illogical visceral reaction. At the risk of being misogynistic, you are behaving like some women do after meeting another woman who is ordinarily reasonable and yet, get a gut reaction that they hate that woman and there is absolutely nothing possible on this earth that can change that opinion.

Kathi of the past would have presented reasonable alternatives, or even wondered aloud about possible solutions to discuss.

When outright asked what alternative you might propose, as my heat rises from your TDS, you pretty much told me to go fuck myself.

You hate Trump, and that's that.

An honest way to proceed for you is to preface every statement with "I fucking HATE Trump! I hate his hair! Orange Man Bad! His acting in Home Alone was forced and I hate that trenchcoat! ...but this is what I think :"

I know PedoPete™ has enjoyed having Kathi as an ally for the Orange Man Bad campaign. Encouraged, he is, rising and gibbering from the corner with desperate hope in his eyes from support by someone that is exalted around here.

Seriously, if I didn't know the personalities here and were a brand new person browsing this thread, I would immediately identify the top TDS poster of this board as Kathianne.

I won't even go into your sources - one had an apology and I get that you were rushed. I suspect you're reading those news outlets and your views are reflecting your desire to hate Trump by reading Trump-hating media because it soothes your TDS.

You are not objective by any stretch. You are not responding to reasonable posts when they contradict your view that Orange Man Bad.

With all of your criticisms culled from this thread only, and your response for me to fuck off, I will ask you again : What should the USA do?

Trump is damned if he does, and he's damned if he doesn't. I know you recognize this, whether or not you admit it.
I respect you NT, but this is bullshit. Kath isn't a victim of TDS. Read her posts, she has several posts where she agrees with Trump on specific policy, and says such.

I don't always agree with Trump, do I also have TDS? You're as bad as that idiot Schiffe with his "if you don't agree with us about Trump , then you're also a puppet of Putin" bullshit.

[STTAB]

He doesn't have plans or a foreign policy. Erdoğan literally just called him up and out negotiated him. Whispered something sweet in Trump's ear and he said, ok whatever, without even thinking or asking for advise from his generals.


Obviously you have no idea if that is true or not, and also it is quite clear that the Generals along with most in Congress want us to remain permanently in every war we are in. Trump is the CinC , not the Generals, and not the idiotic Senators who are profiting from war.

[STTAB]

'Mob rule', of a sort ... not automatically a bad thing as such, BUT, frequently counterproductive.

In certain situations, group outrage expressed against a post which offers an idea or position that's thoroughly unreasonable, this can be a good thing. Strength of numbers in forming a 'clan' to present a unified stand against its originator can be something meritorious, in my view. It can be persuasive. Evidence of unified strength of feeling can offer useful lessons.

'Mob rule' for its own sake, though ... most especially to enforce a lack of freedom to express ideas, perspectives, opinions ... that's a very dangerous route to follow. I'd expect it of the Left, since it's fundamental to their methodology to groom people into only seeing what THEY want people to see. Those of a more 'right-of-centre' mindset should be much better than this ! We value freedom of expression and individual rights. When something's expressed, LET it be expressed, honestly and openly, then treated to the critical examination it deserves.

What are we here for, if not to swap ideas, perspectives, and debate their merits ?

It's a shame that so many on this board don't follow the precipe, instead preferring to silence those whom they disagree with either by crying to Admin that they should be banned, or by causing fights with them at ever turn, or by cowardly placing them on ignore.

Then of course there is the infamous "If you disagree with me even on the smallest issue , it is because you have TDS"

[jimnyc]

Far too many folks jumping into spats when they have no involvement at all, simply trying to take sides and/or instigating things further. :rolleyes:

[pete311]

US sending troops to secure Saudi’s Arabia. What the fuck. I thought we were sending troops home. Trump is full of horseshit. We have zero obligation to protect a murderous country.

[jimnyc]

US sending troops to secure Saudi’s Arabia. What the fuck. I thought we were sending troops home. Trump is full of horseshit. We have zero obligation to protect a murderous country.

Yeah, I know. Get out of here, get out of there, get out of Afghan, get out of Iraq (shouldn't have went in), get out get out get out, all kinds of retarded stuff over and over about any action ever taken by republicans. Then if and when they were to ever get the opposite, then they whine about that too. Issues aside - the dems and their supporters will bitch and complain about things no matter the decision.

Deal with it.

[pete311]

And you Jim would say the same complicit shit when we send troops to protect North Korea. The only difference between the two is SA is paying trump and kushner.

[STTAB]

SA is paying trump and kushner.


ANY evidence of this at all?

[Drummond]

Agree with the need to hear other sides, but is way too dangerous if some were to fall away from the clan I guess. When the mob gathers to silence, there really isn't anything else to do than to amplify concerns.

At the 'end of the day' ... all this really is, is words on a screen.

It's obviously 'nice' if someone posting finds they have the collected support of a clan behind them !!! All well and good, when it happens. Even so .. we're all individuals. We should be true to our views, regardless of what they are. Openness to a countering post offering a better viewpoint notwithstanding .. and, clan(s) notwithstanding .. you either come on here to engage in debate having interactive value, or you demean the potential of exchanges by just following a partisan propagandist agenda, one neither permitting nor recognising any latitude of receptiveness to anything or anyone.

I am my own man, with my own views. I'm willing to be 'anti-clan' if I believe in my viewpoint sufficiently ... think of my argumentation over the seriousness of measles, as evidence !

I think there's only one truly legitimate approach to forums like this one. ALWAYS BE TRUE TO YOUR VIEWS, BUT BE APPROPRIATELY RECEPTIVE TO ALTERNATIVES. In that way, the fullest latitude for the testing of viewpoints is possible.

[STTAB]

Far too many folks jumping into spats when they have no involvement at all, simply trying to take sides and/or instigating things further. :rolleyes:

That's my main reason for posting

:dance::coffee::clap::salute::laugh::saluting2:

[STTAB]

At the 'end of the day' ... all this really is, is words on a screen.

It's obviously 'nice' if someone posting finds they have the collected support of a clan behind them !!! All well and good, when it happens. Even so .. we're all individuals. We should be true to our views, regardless of what they are. Openness to a countering post offering a better viewpoint notwithstanding .. and, clan(s) notwithstanding .. you either come on here to engage in debate having interactive value, or you demean the potential of exchanges by just following a partisan propagandist agenda, one neither permitting nor recognising any latitude of receptiveness to anything or anyone.

I am my own man, with my own views. I'm willing to be 'anti-clan' if I believe in my viewpoint sufficiently ... think of my argumentation over the seriousness of measles, as evidence !

I think there's only one truly legitimate approach to forums like this one. ALWAYS BE TRUE TO YOUR VIEWS, BUT BE APPROPRIATELY RECEPTIVE TO ALTERNATIVES. In that way, the fullest latitude for the testing of viewpoints is possible.

In this particular situation I think we have too many posters who simply don't want people who disagree with them even posting on this board and go out of their way to make sure they are not welcome here.

[Drummond]

That's my main reason for posting

:dance::coffee::clap::salute::laugh::saluting2::fi ghting0061::fighting0061: :coffee2:

[Kathianne]

In this particular situation I think we have too many posters who simply don't want people who disagree with them even posting on this board and go out of their way to make sure they are not welcome here.

Or if they see things from a different perspective, they need to post stupid and rarely. Then they can just be made fun of.

[Drummond]

In this particular situation I think we have too many posters who simply don't want people who disagree with them even posting on this board and go out of their way to make sure they are not welcome here.

Context matters, though.

I can understand this from someone who is totally rock-solid in his / her views and doesn't want to tolerate anything 'alternative' to that. A context where that's understandable is patriotism: if someone posts views which violate that, e.g someone demeans the values your native country holds dear to, obviously the fiercely patriotic contributor will want to hit back.

Who, except a creature of the Left, could object to that, and fail to sympathise, when it happens ?

Nonetheless, I'm of the frame of mind where I'll happily have a view, hold to it, express it, then debate it to exhaustion. The point is to test the worth of the view. If mine is valid, has sufficient merit, it'll prevail. If it doesn't ... then, it won't, and then it's my duty to concede to the superior argument, once its worth is proven.

Against this ... is the partisan troll, who exists to demean in the furtherance of the pushing of an agenda. Such people never concede, they'll rather run away than concede, or, launch into gratuitous abuse in place of conceding. Beyond superficial amusement value, none of that has value in a discussion forum !

[STTAB]

Context matters, though.

I can understand this from someone who is totally rock-solid in his / her views and doesn't want to tolerate anything 'alternative' to that. A context where that's understandable is patriotism: if someone posts views which violate that, e.g someone demeans the values your native country holds dear to, obviously the fiercely patriotic contributor will want to hit back.

Who, except a creature of the Left, could object to that, and fail to sympathise, when it happens ?

Nonetheless, I'm of the frame of mind where I'll happily have a view, hold to it, express it, then debate it to exhaustion. The point is to test the worth of the view. If mine is valid, has sufficient merit, it'll prevail. If it doesn't ... then, it won't, and then it's my duty to concede to the superior argument, once its worth is proven.

Against this ... is the partisan troll, who exists to demean in the furtherance of the pushing of an agenda. Such people never concede, they'll rather run away than concede, or, launch into gratuitous abuse in place of conceding. Beyond superficial amusement value, none of that has value in a discussion forum !


I enjoy the troll, and will happily call a stupid person stupid, but I try to do so in addition to arguing my point , rather than instead of defending my point.

Also, on the very rare occasion that I am wrong about something, I'm willing to admit to that.

[Abbey Marie]

Yeah, I know. Get out of here, get out of there, get out of Afghan, get out of Iraq (shouldn't have went in), get out get out get out, all kinds of retarded stuff over and over about any action ever taken by republicans. Then if and when they were to ever get the opposite, then they whine about that too. Issues aside - the dems and their supporters will bitch and complain about things no matter the decision.

Deal with it.

What kind of clarity or consistency can we expect from a party that thinks there are 2,652 genders?

[STTAB]

What kind of clarity or consistency can we expect from a party that thinks there are 2,652 genders?


The same party that believes that because voting is a right, the government has no right to actually make sure you are eligible to exercise said right but they have every right to make sure you have the right to exercise your second amendment rights.

The Democratic Party truly is the party of stupid.

[Abbey Marie]

The same party that believes that because voting is a right, the government has no right to actually make sure you are eligible to exercise said right but they have every right to make sure you have the right to exercise your second amendment rights.

The Democratic Party truly is the party of stupid.

Once upon a time, I registered and voted Democrat. Then I started to think rationally.

[STTAB]

Once upon a time, I registered and voted Democrat. Then I started to think rationally.


I voted for Bill Clinton, twice. And I'm okay with that. The DNC wasn't crooked and batshit crazy back then the way it is today. Party of science and facts my ass. Look at ANY of the planks of their platform and it's easy to see that you would have to tally ignore all known facts to support anything there.

[Kathianne]

His decisions had nothing to do with what has been happening in Syria now, but President Trump is very concerned and sanctions are on the table, but not yet.

[STTAB]

One thing we can be reasonably sure of, 99% of the people who are condemnng Trump for this don't give two shits about the Kurds, just another "orange man bad" tantrum.

When , if ever, will the left realize that they have became the Little Boy Who Cried Wolf, by turning every little thing Trump does into "worse than Watergate" and thus most Americans simply no longer give a fuck about their complaints?

[icansayit]

In this particular situation I think we have too many posters who simply don't want people who disagree with them even posting on this board and go out of their way to make sure they are not welcome here.


Hypocrisy for your own benefit is obvious.

[jimnyc]

His decisions had nothing to do with what has been happening in Syria now, but President Trump is very concerned and sanctions are on the table, but not yet.

--

Trump Administration Threatens Sanctions on Turkey

Speaking from the White House briefing room Friday afternoon, Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin reiterated President Trump's threat to sanction the Turkish economy if the military goes too far with its invasion into Northern Syria.

"I just met with President Trump and he has authorized and will be signing a new executive order giving the Treasury Department in consultation with himself and Secretary Pompeo very significant new sanctions authorities that can be targeted at any person associated with the government of Turkey, any portion of the government. This will both primary sanctions and secondary sanctions that will be applicable. The President is concerned about the ongoing military offensive and potential targeting of civilians, civilian infrastructure, ethnic or religious minorities and also the President wants to make very clear it is imperative that Turkey not allow even a single ISIS fighter to escape."

Treasury also issued a press release with more information:


Given Turkey’s ongoing military offensive in northeastern Syria, President Donald J. Trump intends to sign an Executive Order to dissuade Turkey from any further offensive military action in northeast Syria, including but not limited to indiscriminate targeting of civilians, targeting of civilian infrastructure, targeting of ethnic or religious minorities, or targeting or other actions that undermine the continued counterterrorism activities of the Syrian Democratic Forces. It is imperative that Turkey not allow even a single ISIS fighter to escape. The Order will delegate to the Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the President and the Secretary of State, authority to designate individuals and entities of the Government of Turkey involved in human rights abuses or actions leading to the further deterioration of peace, security, and stability in northeastern Syria. The Order also will give the Secretary of the Treasury the authority to impose secondary sanctions on those engaging in knowing and significant transactions with designated individuals and entities of the Government of Turkey.

Rest - https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2019/10/11/breaking-turkey-sanctions-n2554596

[Kathianne]

--

Trump Administration Threatens Sanctions on Turkey

Speaking from the White House briefing room Friday afternoon, Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin reiterated President Trump's threat to sanction the Turkish economy if the military goes too far with its invasion into Northern Syria.

"I just met with President Trump and he has authorized and will be signing a new executive order giving the Treasury Department in consultation with himself and Secretary Pompeo very significant new sanctions authorities that can be targeted at any person associated with the government of Turkey, any portion of the government. This will both primary sanctions and secondary sanctions that will be applicable. The President is concerned about the ongoing military offensive and potential targeting of civilians, civilian infrastructure, ethnic or religious minorities and also the President wants to make very clear it is imperative that Turkey not allow even a single ISIS fighter to escape."

Treasury also issued a press release with more information:



Rest - https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2019/10/11/breaking-turkey-sanctions-n2554596

Thanks, I'd heard it on the radio and didn't have a link. We'll see if and when they may implement, evangelicals are very pissed about this.

[jimnyc]

Thanks, I'd heard it on the radio and didn't have a link. We'll see if and when they may implement, evangelicals are very pissed about this.

I think the very next "incident" will be followed by the order. Let's see how Turkey proceeds knowing this is an option.

[Kathianne]

I think the very next "incident" will be followed by the order. Let's see how Turkey proceeds knowing this is an option.

As far as I know they've been hitting them pretty much continuously. Have you heard different? I hope so.

[Kathianne]

It seems more a warning of 'if' some imaginary line is crossed or if ISIS prisoners escape wholesale.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/465432-trump-expands-his-authority-to-sanction-turkey-amid-syrian-offensive (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/465432-trump-expands-his-authority-to-sanction-turkey-amid-syrian-offensive)

[jimnyc]

As far as I know they've been hitting them pretty much continuously. Have you heard different? I hope so.

Not really, but also haven't went out of my way to read much about it in the past 24-48. But I think the idea of serious economic sanctions may have them rethink their strategy for now. And if they don't listen, and then get them, and then still don't listen - I believe the next step would in fact be further crippling sanctions.

[STTAB]

Hypocrisy for your own benefit is obvious.


We can take this to the cage if you would like, but this thread got derailed for long enogh, now do you have anything on topic to add to this discussion , or at least some memes?

[icansayit]

We can take this to the cage if you would like, but this thread got derailed for long enogh, now do you have anything on topic to add to this discussion , or at least some memes?



And wait for me. We're done. You were right. Everything you said here is right. Just ask you, when you get to the cage.

[pete311]

n/m already reported in another thread

[Abbey Marie]

n/m already reported in another thread

n/m?

[pete311]

n/m?
nevermind

[Kathianne]

n/m?
I think he’d posted about the mistake bombing of our special forces.

[Abbey Marie]

nevermind

Thanks, I was thinking it referred to a person.

:thumb:

[pete311]

So much winning. I love it!

Isis militants break out of prison in Syria after bombing by Turkey

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-turkey-syria-prison-bombing-kurds-sdf-a9152536.html

[Abbey Marie]

So much winning. I love it!

Isis militants break out of prison in Syria after bombing by Turkey

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-turkey-syria-prison-bombing-kurds-sdf-a9152536.html

Dems would love it if the US was bombed to the Stone Age if it meant they could regain the White House. Shame.

[Kathianne]

So much winning. I love it!

Isis militants break out of prison in Syria after bombing by Turkey

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-turkey-syria-prison-bombing-kurds-sdf-a9152536.html
I thought this a bad idea obviously. There’s nothing good about this news.

[pete311]

Dems would love it if the US was bombed to the Stone Age if it meant they could regain the White House. Shame.

Trump appears to be that bomb

[pete311]

I thought this a bad idea obviously. There’s nothing good about this news.

I'm poking Jim of course

[jimnyc]

Anything that consumes the left and anything I know they disagree with, then it's all Winning to me! And Winning 2020 will only be the icing on the cake after all the bellyaching.

[jimnyc]

I'm poking Jim of course

It's called "trolling" pete, since all you offer is trolling. Every single post anymore, and you even admit to it. Your posts are kinda useless anymore and I don't bother with the content much, other than pointing out the trolling. You turned yourself into useless. I tried even prodding you into posting like a normal person and offering more than one liners. But I think its 2 part here. One part you simply can't offer much more than that, which has been painfully obvious anytime we have had to witness sentence number 2. And the second part is that you don't want to participate or have a discussion. You have an intent, which stemmed from your hatred, and now simply can't communicate properly.

There are a few posters I just pass on by, with a glean of the eye and keep moving, or point out the idiocy. You are now one. So fine someone else to poke at if that's your desire, but my desire is to simply pass on by.

[LongTermGuy]

Anything that consumes the left and anything I know they disagree with, then it's all Winning to me! And Winning 2020 will only be the icing on the cake after all the bellyaching.




Spot on Jimmy!:coffee:https://i.redd.it/m6y99vp5teq01.jpgGood Morning!

[Kathianne]

Inevitable. Kurds joining with Syrians. https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/13/kurds-assad-syria-russia-putin-turkey-genocide/

[STTAB]

Inevitable. Kurds joining with Syrians. https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/13/kurds-assad-syria-russia-putin-turkey-genocide/

That's what should have happened in the first place. Let Syria control ISIS inside their own borders and then if they can't get a handle on the PKE and Turkey destroys them, how is that of any concern to us really?

And I hate the Turks, can't stand them, don't understand why they are in NATO but PKE is committing acts of terror inside their border after all. If a terror group located in Mexico was coming into our country and committing acts of terror wouldn't you imagine we'd go into Mexico and wipe them out?

Also, very sad that Pete is openly cheering on the escape of ISIS prisoners.

[Kathianne]

That's what should have happened in the first place. Let Syria control ISIS inside their own borders and then if they can't get a handle on the PKE and Turkey destroys them, how is that of any concern to us really?

And I hate the Turks, can't stand them, don't understand why they are in NATO but PKE is committing acts of terror inside their border after all. If a terror group located in Mexico was coming into our country and committing acts of terror wouldn't you imagine we'd go into Mexico and wipe them out?

Also, very sad that Pete is openly cheering on the escape of ISIS prisoners.

Please, two things. If it were Obama and not Trump and it were a conservative denouncing the dumb move that set conditions for these escapes, you'd be condemning the conservative and acting that the escapes are no big deal.

Two, when Israel is hit, you will condemn the attackers and not the conditions that have been set by the US.

Just for the record, Turkey and Russia have gotten pretty good bedfellows over the past few years. As has China and Turkey.

[STTAB]

Please, two things. If it were Obama and not Trump and it were a conservative denouncing the dumb move that set conditions for these escapes, you'd be condemning the conservative and acting that the escapes are no big deal.

Two, when Israel is hit, you will condemn the attackers and not the conditions that have been set by the US.

Just for the record, Turkey and Russia have gotten pretty good bedfellows over the past few years. As has China and Turkey.


For the record, I'm insulted that you don't at a minimum acknowledge that I don't play the team game. My posting history is clear. I gave Obama credit for the things he deserved credit for (which were rare) and didn't blame him for things that went wrong but weren't directly his fault. And I'm no blind Trump cheerleader either.

As for the escapes they ARE a big deal. And I never said otherwise, the ONLY thing I said was it's sad that Pete is actually cheering about it. While I acknowledge that there are certainly a few posters here who would have cheered if ISIS prisoners had escaped because of something Obama did , not only am I not one of them, I would have called them pathetic as well.

I show you respect for being fair minded and balanced nearly every day on this board Kath, a little of that same respect in return would be appreciated.

[Kathianne]

For the record, I'm insulted that you don't at a minimum acknowledge that I don't play the team game. My posting history is clear. I gave Obama credit for the things he deserved credit for (which were rare) and didn't blame him for things that went wrong but weren't directly his fault. And I'm no blind Trump cheerleader either.

As for the escapes they ARE a big deal. And I never said otherwise, the ONLY thing I said was it's sad that Pete is actually cheering about it. While I acknowledge that there are certainly a few posters here who would have cheered if ISIS prisoners had escaped because of something Obama did , not only am I not one of them, I would have called them pathetic as well.

I show you respect for being fair minded and balanced nearly every day on this board Kath, a little of that same respect in return would be appreciated.

Saying you're a partisan is not saying you're pro-Trump. Getting all insulted, you still didn't answer the questions, which is fine.

[STTAB]

Saying you're a partisan is not saying you're pro-Trump. Getting all insulted, you still didn't answer the questions, which is fine.


The point is I am not partisan. I call out stupid conservatives almost daily on here. You have just confused defending Trump when he hasn't done anything wrong with being a partisan.

And I most certainly did answer the question. The escaped ISIS prisoners are not a good thing. Regardless of who is sitting in the WH.

But yeah, I'm insulted, insulted that you refuse to show the same respect that is accorded to you. But I shouldn't be because honestly I'm not the only poster on this board who has shown you respect in the last year or so with none returned. Just something for YOU to think about, if it matters to you.

[Kathianne]

The point is I am not partisan. I call out stupid conservatives almost daily on here. You have just confused defending Trump when he hasn't done anything wrong with being a partisan.

And I most certainly did answer the question. The escaped ISIS prisoners are not a good thing. Regardless of who is sitting in the WH.

But yeah, I'm insulted, insulted that you refuse to show the same respect that is accorded to you. But I shouldn't be because honestly I'm not the only poster on this board who has shown you respect in the last year or so with none returned. Just something for YOU to think about, if it matters to you.

Disagreeing with people is not disrespecting them, those that feel that way? I can't help their feelings.

The questions posed you did not answer, not about if Obama did the same thing and had conservative call him out the same way. Nor did you answer about Israel. Again, you do not need to.

[jimnyc]

Poor play if so, especially if known that they would get killed/caught again anyway, as I doubt Trump is changing his mind on this one. They have been fighting forever and will continue. I disagree with just letting them go though, that's just MO. I would have lined them up one by one, or a very very big bomb would go off there.

And if Turkey doesn't listen to any pleading from around the world - then the world should collectively place the economic sanctions.

---

Trump: Kurdish-led Forces May Intentionally Be Releasing ISIS Militants

Kurdish-led forces in northeast Syria may be releasing captive Islamic State militants to lure U.S. troops back to the area, President Donald Trump suggested Monday.

In a pair of tweets prefaced with a criticism of Brian Kilmeade of Fox News Channel's "Fox and Friends," Trump said the U.S. is "not going into another war between people who have been fighting with each other for 200 years."

He said "Kurds may be releasing some [ISIS militants] to get us involved," and claimed those prisoners could be "easily recaptured by Turkey or European Nations from where many came."

The Turkish onslaught in northern Syria has raised concerns that Islamic State militants and their families held by the Kurdish-led forces long allied with Washington may escape and revive the group. Scores have been said to have escaped already.

https://www.newsmax.com/headline/trump-islamic-state-isis-kurd/2019/10/14/id/936955/


Graham: Planned Sanctions Will Break Turkey's Economy

Sen. Lindsey Graham, after criticizing President Donald Trump over pulling troops from Syria, on Monday said he blames Turkey and its President Recep Erdogan for the deaths that have happened and warned that sanctions are planned that will cripple the NATO ally's economy unless the violence stops.

"We'll break his economy until he stops the bloodshed," the South Carolina Republican warned on Fox News' "Fox and Friends," while accusing Erdogan of lying to him.

"Three weeks ago I met (with) Erdogan at the U.N. In New York," Graham said Monday. "The safe zone concept to keep Turkey and the Kurds away from each other with an international force was working."

But a week later, "he basically lied to me," said Graham. "The rest is history. (It is) quickly deteriorating inside of Syria."

Graham said Congress will impose crippling sanctions, which will supplement what Trump's administration has done.

"We'll send a signal to Turkey that is unmistakable in the eyes of Erdogan and the world,' he promised.

Graham vowed to speak with several Democrats on Monday, including House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Sens. Chris Van Hollen, D-Md., and Robert Menendez, D-N.J.

He quickly spoke with Pelosi, tweeting that she told him she "supports bipartisan sanctions against Turkey’s outrages in Syria. She also believes we should show support for Kurdish allies and is concerned about the reemergence of ISIS."

Pelosi presented two priorities after her conversation with Graham on Monday: a joint resolution from the House and Senate to reverse Trump’s actions in Syria and "the strongest bipartisan, bicameral sanctions package."

Rest - https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/graham-turkey-erdogan-sanctions/2019/10/14/id/936996/

[STTAB]

Disagreeing with people is not disrespecting them, those that feel that way? I can't help their feelings.

The questions posed you did not answer, not about if Obama did the same thing and had conservative call him out the same way. Nor did you answer about Israel. Again, you do not need to.

Kath, I'm not the only person on this board in the last say 3 months who has said you have been disrespectful to them. Perhaps a little introspection on your part is what is needed.

I certainly don't care that you disagree with me. You have every right to be wrong. I do, however, take umbrage at being lumped in with the many partisan idiots of the world.

And I've already said this much to you with FAR more respect than I would give quite a few other posters on this board, but I'm done with that, if you can't be more respectful , why should I be?

[STTAB]

Poor play if so, especially if known that they would get killed/caught again anyway, as I doubt Trump is changing his mind on this one. They have been fighting forever and will continue. I disagree with just letting them go though, that's just MO. I would have lined them up one by one, or a very very big bomb would go off there.

And if Turkey doesn't listen to any pleading from around the world - then the world should collectively place the economic sanctions.

---

Trump: Kurdish-led Forces May Intentionally Be Releasing ISIS Militants

Kurdish-led forces in northeast Syria may be releasing captive Islamic State militants to lure U.S. troops back to the area, President Donald Trump suggested Monday.

In a pair of tweets prefaced with a criticism of Brian Kilmeade of Fox News Channel's "Fox and Friends," Trump said the U.S. is "not going into another war between people who have been fighting with each other for 200 years."

He said "Kurds may be releasing some [ISIS militants] to get us involved," and claimed those prisoners could be "easily recaptured by Turkey or European Nations from where many came."

The Turkish onslaught in northern Syria has raised concerns that Islamic State militants and their families held by the Kurdish-led forces long allied with Washington may escape and revive the group. Scores have been said to have escaped already.

https://www.newsmax.com/headline/trump-islamic-state-isis-kurd/2019/10/14/id/936955/


Graham: Planned Sanctions Will Break Turkey's Economy

Sen. Lindsey Graham, after criticizing President Donald Trump over pulling troops from Syria, on Monday said he blames Turkey and its President Recep Erdogan for the deaths that have happened and warned that sanctions are planned that will cripple the NATO ally's economy unless the violence stops.

"We'll break his economy until he stops the bloodshed," the South Carolina Republican warned on Fox News' "Fox and Friends," while accusing Erdogan of lying to him.

"Three weeks ago I met (with) Erdogan at the U.N. In New York," Graham said Monday. "The safe zone concept to keep Turkey and the Kurds away from each other with an international force was working."

But a week later, "he basically lied to me," said Graham. "The rest is history. (It is) quickly deteriorating inside of Syria."

Graham said Congress will impose crippling sanctions, which will supplement what Trump's administration has done.

"We'll send a signal to Turkey that is unmistakable in the eyes of Erdogan and the world,' he promised.

Graham vowed to speak with several Democrats on Monday, including House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Sens. Chris Van Hollen, D-Md., and Robert Menendez, D-N.J.

He quickly spoke with Pelosi, tweeting that she told him she "supports bipartisan sanctions against Turkey’s outrages in Syria. She also believes we should show support for Kurdish allies and is concerned about the reemergence of ISIS."

Pelosi presented two priorities after her conversation with Graham on Monday: a joint resolution from the House and Senate to reverse Trump’s actions in Syria and "the strongest bipartisan, bicameral sanctions package."

Rest - https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/graham-turkey-erdogan-sanctions/2019/10/14/id/936996/


What ? A Turk lied? Shocking, just shocking I tell you.

[jimnyc]

What ? A Turk lied? Shocking, just shocking I tell you.

I think they are ALL lying their asses off over there. Using as many people and trying to get as many people on their side as possible, to support their endless war. The worst is the shia and sunni's fighting one another. Getting involved there ever would be a catastrophe. But while not find of bailing on anyone at all, also not fond of getting in between 2 sets of warring parties. I wish we could bombard Turkey, personally, but I understand that wouldn't be a good plan either. :dunno:

[STTAB]

I think they are ALL lying their asses off over there. Using as many people and trying to get as many people on their side as possible, to support their endless war. The worst is the shia and sunni's fighting one another. Getting involved there ever would be a catastrophe. But while not find of bailing on anyone at all, also not fond of getting in between 2 sets of warring parties. I wish we could bombard Turkey, personally, but I understand that wouldn't be a good plan either. :dunno:

If the Kurds are purposely freeing ISIS prisoners, fuck them. And , they probably are. We don't accidentally have a great track record with rebel groups that we at one time armed and supported.

[Kathianne]

Kath, I'm not the only person on this board in the last say 3 months who has said you have been disrespectful to them. Perhaps a little introspection on your part is what is needed.

I certainly don't care that you disagree with me. You have every right to be wrong. I do, however, take umbrage at being lumped in with the many partisan idiots of the world.

And I've already said this much to you with FAR more respect than I would give quite a few other posters on this board, but I'm done with that, if you can't be more respectful , why should I be?
I’m not trying to disrespect anyone, now or with anyone that hasn’t me. If you choose to interpret it that way, I can’t help that. It is what it is. When someone states something obvious, I point it out. When someone is an ass, I respond.

You did nothing of the sort.

[jimnyc]

But as I'm to understand, there is already fighting on congress. :rolleyes:

President Trump Announces Sanctions, Vows to Destroy Turkey's Economy if "Possible War Crimes" Continue

President Trump announced plans to impose economic sanctions on the government of Turkey Monday afternoon as President Recep Erdogan continues his military invasion into northern Syria. He also announced a change in U.S. troop levels inside the country.

"I will soon be issuing an Executive Order authorizing the imposition of sanctions against current and former officials of the Government of Turkey and any persons contributing to Turkey's destabilizing actions in northeast Syria," he tweeted Monday afternoon. "The Order will enable the United State to impose powerful additional sanctions on those who may be involved in serious human rights abuses, obstructing a ceasefire, preventing displaced persons from returning home, forcibly repatriating refugees, or threatening the peace, security, or stability in Syria. The Order will authorize a broad range of consequences, including financial sanctions, the blocking of property, and barring entry into the United States."

"Since my first day in office, the Trump Administration has worked tirelessly to preserve the safety and security of the United States and its citizens. The United States and our partners have liberated 100 percent of ISIS's ruthless territorial caliphate. Turkey must not put these gains in jeopardy. Turkey must also prioritize the protection of civilians, particularly vulnerable ethnic and religious minorities in northeast Syria. Indiscriminate targeting of civilians, destruction of civilian infrastructure and targeting of ethnic and religious minorities is unacceptable," Trump continued. "Turkey's military offensive is endangering civilians and threatening peace, security and stability in the region. I have been perfectly clear with President Erdogan: Turkey's action is precipitating a humanitarian crisis and setting conditions for possible war crimes."

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2019/10/14/president-trump-releases-a-new-statement-on-syria-turkey-and-the-kurds-n2554707