Foreign Diplomacy via Kayne West's Personal Plea?

[Kathianne]

Sweden doesn't have bail, so he couldn't be given it, Sweden's president and the US ambassador to Sweden explained that to President Trump, who expressed his displeasure with unflattering tweets.


https://hotair.com/archives/allahpundit/2019/08/01/white-houses-special-envoy-hostage-affairs-aap-rocky-trial-sweden/


What Is The White House’s Special Envoy On Hostage Affairs Doing At The A$AP Rocky Trial In Sweden?
ALLAHPUNDITPosted at 10:41 pm on August 1, 2019

So embarrassing. And doubly embarrassing is the fact that every righty in the country would have taken a rhetorical flamethrower to Obama if he had pulled this swampy garbage.


Read this post for background if you haven’t been following the A$AP Rocky saga. Short version: He’s a famous rapper with even more famous friends, Kanye West and Kim Kardashian, who themselves have the most famous friend of all in Donald Trump. Rocky and his pals got into a fight while visiting Sweden in which they may or may not have been the aggressors; Sweden’s holding a criminal trial for them right now to determine their guilt, as one would expect. Problem: West, Kardashian, and Trump think celebrities should get special favors from governments so Trump dialed up the prime minister of Sweden and asked if something couldn’t be done to secure Rocky’s release. Uh, no, he was told. It’d be grossly improper for a politician to meddle in a criminal proceeding.


Trump didn’t like that and naturally registered his annoyance on Twitter. After all we do for Sweden, how dare they not corrupt their judicial system for a well-connected American entertainer?


Which is where Robert O’Brien comes in. He’s the president’s special envoy for hostage affairs, the sort of person who might normally be tapped to talk to the Taliban if a soldier was kidnapped in Afghanistan or a U.S. citizen arrested in North Korea a la Otto Warmbier. What he’s doing this week is … attending A$AP Rocky’s trial. Not because we think the Swedish criminal justice system is unfair or anything, but just so that Trump can impress Kim and Kanye by showing them how seriously he’s taking this very important crisis. And, I guess, to extend a middle finger to the prime minister by treating a European ally’s judicial process as if it’s some third-world kangaroo court that needs American supervision.


As I say, no doubt Obama dispatching a U.S. crisis negotiator to the trial of a rapper as a personal favor to another rapper would sit very well indeed with the opposition party.


Whether appropriate or not, the framing of Rocky’s case as akin to a hostage situation appears to have taken hold at the White House. A senior administration official said the main motivation for Mr. Trump is continuing his track record of getting hostages freed. Mr. Trump has taken pride in the freeing of hostages from Iran, North Korea and Turkey, including Andrew Brunson, a pastor who had been held by Turkish authorities for years…


James C. O’Brien, no relation [to Robert O’Brien] and the first person to hold the [hostage envoy] position, said in a phone interview that his successor’s efforts in Sweden did not fit the job’s original framework. The envoy, he said, should work to free Americans being held without good reason, oftentimes when there are no diplomatic alternatives.


There has to have been another way of handing the situation, James O’Brien said, especially since Sweden is an ally who could be a partner in working to release an actual hostage.


“The envoy’s presence in Sweden is a tweet come to life,” James O’Brien, the vice chairman of Albright Stonebridge Group, a global consulting firm, said.


Robert O’Brien gamely tried to defend his presence at the trial to reporters who asked why a hostage negotiator was involved in a non-hostage non-negotiation situation: “I also help free people that are held by governments, so unjustly detained Americans.” But that’s just it. There’s no evidence that Rocky has been unjustly detained, whatever Kanye might think about the situation. And there’s no reason to believe that he will, or should, go free if he’s convicted.


There’s this too:


On Wednesday, the United States Embassy in Stockholm asked that the three defendants be released from detention and allowed to reside at a hotel for the duration of the trial, according to a spokeswoman for the Swedish Prosecution Authority, who called the request unusual.


Not gonna happen, Swedish officials told the Times. Trump had also asked about Rocky potentially being released on bail, whereupon he was informed that Sweden doesn’t do bail since it would be unfair to criminal defendants who can’t afford to pay. It’s the Swedes who have insisted repeatedly during this process on treating a rich, famous defendant the same as everyone else and our supposedly populist president who’s repeatedly asked for special privileges on his behalf.


But so what, you might say? If the White House can help out an American who’s in trouble, so much the better. Right, but the thing is that Rocky isn’t the only American out there who’s in trouble. Dan Drezner points to this list of U.S. citizens currently detained in several sh*thole countries — i.e. not Sweden — who might benefit from a presidential-level intervention in the person of Robert O’Brien. But they aren’t getting that, at least not this week, because the Kardashian family and their presidential enabler are preoccupied with a cause celebre. Exit quotation from Drezner: “President Trump has always prioritized celebrity over the national interest. This episode merely gilds the lily.”

[Noir]

I don’t understand what it is about Kanye - but ‘right-wing’ types seem to fall over themselves trying to impress him, common-sense be damned.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I don’t understand what it is about Kanye - but ‘right-wing’ types seem to fall over themselves trying to impress him, common-sense be damned.
Not me, I would not spend a penny to save his life, nor any of the Kardashians.
I respect and admire those that truly deserve it.
The trash I just named is still just trash (despite fame/fortune), IMHO.--Tyr

[jimnyc]

Kanye supported Trump through a lot to him personally, even wore his hat when he was performing. He tried to help Trump quite a many times. Trump in return has heard him out, tried to help him a couple of times - just as folks on the left did through a few things, and just as a few others helped him. And his wife hates Trump, but she too got much help from him.

[STTAB]

So there are actually people who are mad that the US President is trying to intervene in a case about a US citizen in a foreign nation who the President believes has been treated unfairly?

Unfuckingreal.

And only a dip shit would have complained if Obama had done something similar, but we'll never know because Obama never tried to help any Americans who were in trouble abroad.

[jimnyc]

So there are actually people who are mad that the US President is trying to intervene in a case about a US citizen in a foreign nation who the President believes has been treated unfairly?

Unfuckingreal.

And only a dip shit would have complained if Obama had done something similar, but we'll never know because Obama never tried to help any Americans who were in trouble abroad.

He's a racist helping a black guy for show. Seriously, that's what the lefties are saying. :rolleyes:

Meanwhile, they have met many many times, even prior to him taking office. trump has been VERY good to Kanye and wife - as well as many other black people that he has been friends with over the years, or worked for him.

[Kathianne]

He's a racist helping a black guy for show. Seriously, that's what the lefties are saying. :rolleyes:

Meanwhile, they have met many many times, even prior to him taking office. trump has been VERY good to Kanye and wife - as well as many other black people that he has been friends with over the years, or worked for him.


So there are actually people who are mad that the US President is trying to intervene in a case about a US citizen in a foreign nation who the President believes has been treated unfairly?

Unfuckingreal.

And only a dip shit would have complained if Obama had done something similar, but we'll never know because Obama never tried to help any Americans who were in trouble abroad.

Wait. Sweden has never been accused of having a third world justice system. Are you both saying that if the US had arrested someone from another country, who had been accused of doing what this rapper had been you'd be ok to scrap our normal system because of a call from the head of that country?

Especially if after explaining that our system was working to decide guilt or not, we explained that he was entitled to the best representation he or anyone could provide. Instead of saying, "Alright, since he qualifies for bail, (if he did), we'll wait; they demanded that he be able to return to his country? They sent someone from the equivalent of the State Department? Really? What if it were Obama that was reaching out to Sweden?

[STTAB]

Wait. Sweden has never been accused of having a third world justice system. Are you both saying that if the US had arrested someone from another country, who had been accused of doing what this rapper had been you'd be ok to scrap our normal system because of a call from the head of that country?

Especially if after explaining that our system was working to decide guilt or not, we explained that he was entitled to the best representation he or anyone could provide. Instead of saying, "Alright, since he qualifies for bail, (if he did), we'll wait; they demanded that he be able to return to his country? They sent someone from the equivalent of the State Department? Really? What if it were Obama that was reaching out to Sweden?

Reread what I wrote please, nothing was said about Sweden's justice system.

And Trump hasn't asked Sweden to scrap anything.

And yes, I would have been fine with Obama doing exactly what Trump is doing here, honestly Kath we've posted together long enough for you to know I don't take hypocritical stances.

[Kathianne]

Reread what I wrote please, nothing was said about Sweden's justice system.

And Trump hasn't asked Sweden to scrap anything.

And yes, I would have been fine with Obama doing exactly what Trump is doing here, honestly Kath we've posted together long enough for you to know I don't take hypocritical stances.

Yeah, I read it. You are now being delusional. There is no way any of us wouldn't be up in arms if Obama was paying someone to go run to Sweden to help out one of his mega rich supporters when we have lots of citizens-private and in government service-rotting in real dungeons.

[STTAB]

Yeah, I read it. You are now being delusional. There is no way any of us wouldn't be up in arms if Obama was paying someone to go run to Sweden to help out one of his mega rich supporters when we have lots of citizens-private and in government service-rotting in real dungeons.

Speak for yourself please.

I myself would have had zero problem with Obama doing exactly what Trump has done here.

Yall be acting like Trump has threatened to bomb Sweden unless they release this guy . Come on.

[Kathianne]

Speak for yourself please.

I myself would have had zero problem with Obama doing exactly what Trump has done here.

Yall be acting like Trump has threatened to bomb Sweden unless they release this guy . Come on.

Right. I'm convinced! Heil.

[STTAB]

Right. I'm convinced! Heil.

What in my post history would lead you to believe otherwise? When I posted here during Obama's tenure as President I actually took quite a few lumps for refusing to condemn him for things I didn't think he did wrong on several occasions.

A quick example.

When dopes on here were bitching about his vacations I said the same I said years later when dopes griped about Trump's vacations. Who gives a fuck about his vacations?

[jimnyc]

Wait. Sweden has never been accused of having a third world justice system. Are you both saying that if the US had arrested someone from another country, who had been accused of doing what this rapper had been you'd be ok to scrap our normal system because of a call from the head of that country?

Especially if after explaining that our system was working to decide guilt or not, we explained that he was entitled to the best representation he or anyone could provide. Instead of saying, "Alright, since he qualifies for bail, (if he did), we'll wait; they demanded that he be able to return to his country? They sent someone from the equivalent of the State Department? Really? What if it were Obama that was reaching out to Sweden?

Nope. I was just pointing out that Trump was doing a friend a favor. Others did similarly as Sweden even has/had regulations that releases prisoners within 2 weeks if no charges - and then that is when calls were made to release him, as he was held for longer at that point without charges. NOW he is charged, and already in court, and no, we shouldn't interfere there. Just like we shouldn't. But we do make deals or do favors for allies - sometimes, depending on crime as well.

In this case, the other 2 guys are guilty as hell, his bodyguard is more than guilty, but only charges to the famous rap star. But it's in Sweden's justice systems hands now.

[jimnyc]

Yeah, I read it. You are now being delusional. There is no way any of us wouldn't be up in arms if Obama was paying someone to go run to Sweden to help out one of his mega rich supporters when we have lots of citizens-private and in government service-rotting in real dungeons.

If an American citizen were held without charges beyond what the law allowed for in another country - I would EXPECT someone in our government to try and help one of our citizens. But if the crime were clear (in this case far from it), and charged already, that's different. But helping an American citizen abroad, being held somewhere without charges, I would expect someone in government to help, our embassy at minimum.

[Kathianne]

If an American citizen were held without charges beyond what the law allowed for in another country - I would EXPECT someone in our government to try and help one of our citizens. But if the crime were clear (in this case far from it), and charged already, that's different. But helping an American citizen abroad, being held somewhere without charges, I would expect someone in government to help, our embassy at minimum.

Jim, my post wasn't to you-no reason to say you were delusional.

I do wonder how you can know this guy is innocent or that others are guilty. That would be a problem, if other countries were targeting Americans to just put them on fake trials.

[jimnyc]

Jim, my post wasn't to you-no reason to say you were delusional.

I do wonder how you can know this guy is innocent or that others are guilty. That would be a problem, if other countries were targeting Americans to just put them on fake trials.

I'll post more when back home, but there are videos showing them ALL wrong IMO but only one charged. The guy harassed him and friends for a long time

[STTAB]

Jim, my post wasn't to you-no reason to say you were delusional.

I do wonder how you can know this guy is innocent or that others are guilty. That would be a problem, if other countries were targeting Americans to just put them on fake trials.

Maybe I've missed something. I thought all Trump was doing so far was trying to get him out of pretrial confinement? If he's just trying to get him home without even a trial to see if he did commit a crime, I don't like or support that at all.

[Kathianne]

It's all good now, rapper on his way home!

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?67331-Rapper-On-Way-Home-and-North-Korea-Isn-t-A-Problem

[STTAB]

It's all good now, rapper on his way home!

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?67331-Rapper-On-Way-Home-and-North-Korea-Isn-t-A-Problem

LOL Trump wins again

[pete311]

Why should celebrities get diplomatic priority? Obviously he's pandering to the black vote.

[Kathianne]

LOL Trump wins again

Not one word about North Korea tweets, thus assume you back the President's assessment 100%. Nah, 250%!

[jimnyc]

Maybe I've missed something. I thought all Trump was doing so far was trying to get him out of pretrial confinement? If he's just trying to get him home without even a trial to see if he did commit a crime, I don't like or support that at all.

That is correct. Trump even mentioned being personally responsible for his "bail" - meaning he would have been going back for any trial.

[Kathianne]

That is correct. Trump even mentioned being personally responsible for his "bail" - meaning he would have been going back for any trial.
Yet, even after being told by Prime Minister and US Ambassador that 'bail' isn't a feature of their criminal justice system, he kept going. Funny thing, I expect visitors to our country to follow our rules, not theirs. I guess that should change?

[jimnyc]

Yet, even after being told by Prime Minister and US Ambassador that 'bail' isn't a feature of their criminal justice system, he kept going. Funny thing, I expect visitors to our country to follow our rules, not theirs. I guess that should change?

Funny thing, I expect citizens being held beyond Sweden's own 2 week max, might receive help from our government. I would expect that ANY us citizen being detained illegally or against the other countries own laws/regulations, that at minimum a request to be released until trial.

Quite frankly, not even answering the rest for you. No need for more funny things popping up, or telling me what you expect and therefore I should. Don't need endless sarcasm from you when I haven't done so to you, and have backed out of doing so 100% entirely - yet you want to press things that aren't said, bring in details I don't or haven't discussed, and how I'm just wrong about how America operates altogether.

Oh, and I know, MAGA!


I can sit back and wait for Pete or un-ignore someone if I want similar to "So what you're saying is....".

That's cool though, every good thing I brought up for 2 years from Trump went ignored from some. Every bad thing towards Trump, mostly ignored. Some even got the TDS some way back when, and can't seem to separate discussing politics with someone, and then fun things too. So ya kinda just didn't discuss anything with a "friend" for that amount of time. Now you start again, I stayed almost all factual and polite with you. And I get disrespect and sarcastic jabs in return. Hell, I can handle it, not the point. But here we are - FRIENDS - discussed already, then you even pointed out a few times to ensure you supposedly weren't including me in some of the Trump supporter stuff. But the sarcasm ooooooooooooozes out onto my keyboard. Some things long discussed over time, and now some act like they were never ever stated before - because some people didn't post with their friends or enemies during the heated times. And tons of "general" comments towards Trump, and what his supporters here have or haven't supported, what they have and haven't condemned or not liked....

I simply do not want to post in return to you as I do with the liberals that pop into here from time to time, or other longer liberal members, from the past. And actually even, the affiliation doesn't matter. I would just rather not offer that back to a friend. I'd like to stay friends. I know friends debate/discuss and even fight at times like many have over the years. Just not in the mood lately, and that's on me for the mood issues and not wanting to reply with a billion things going on at home. And no, save the "I'll go back to not posting again.." as that's dumb and you're just fine. I'm merely starting by bailing from a few conversations, and especially this one after this.

A think a few weeks after I zoned in on Trump, the comments about the conservatives you 'used to know' or people you "thought" had certain stances but you must have been wrong, or just direct or indirect comments about Trump basically being a liberal - and the stances of former conservatives now have Trump liberal stances. My stances very rarely change and certainly haven't at all this go round. What I expect from different politicians may be slightly different as I just know what some are better at than others. From that January he took office, I knew certain "kissing ass" would not come from him to the news or most on the left. I knew certain things that weren't his 'specialty' if you will. I'm not sure any one of them has them all, some more than others though. But for what "I" wanted for our country, what I listed many times that I wanted, expected and even thought Trump could follow through with. And he's done just that for me. And unfortunately, if someone tells me that Trump has a few conservative things he did and the rest liberal/center, and then see me as that liberal he is I guess, dunno. But IMO, he's not only honored an endless amount of his promises/words, also already completed in 2 years many things I wanted, and continuing of course.... I have made no less than like 100-200 posts with factual lists, and some of them contained lists of conservative accomplishments. I'm not going back to rehash... but sucks that I posted and wrote about things like that so many times, and go very little or zero replies from folks thinking he's a liberal, or wanted to argue those accomplishments - but they went ignored by many. Blabbing again, I'll stop. Was just disappointed with a lot with a lot, and wanted to express that, and why I was writing that I'm not going to sit here and discuss this Rapper/Sweden/Trump/NK issue.

[Kathianne]

Funny thing, I expect citizens being held beyond Sweden's own 2 week max, might receive help from our government. I would expect that ANY us citizen being detained illegally or against the other countries own laws/regulations, that at minimum a request to be released until trial.

Quite frankly, not even answering the rest for you. No need for more funny things popping up, or telling me what you expect and therefore I should. Don't need endless sarcasm from you when I haven't done so to you, and have backed out of doing so 100% entirely - yet you want to press things that aren't said, bring in details I don't or haven't discussed, and how I'm just wrong about how America operates altogether.

Oh, and I know, MAGA!


I can sit back and wait for Pete or un-ignore someone if I want similar to "So what you're saying is....".

That's cool though, every good thing I brought up for 2 years from Trump went ignored from some. Every bad thing towards Trump, mostly ignored. Some even got the TDS some way back when, and can't seem to separate discussing politics with someone, and then fun things too. So ya kinda just didn't discuss anything with a "friend" for that amount of time. Now you start again, I stayed almost all factual and polite with you. And I get disrespect and sarcastic jabs in return. Hell, I can handle it, not the point. But here we are - FRIENDS - discussed already, then you even pointed out a few times to ensure you supposedly weren't including me in some of the Trump supporter stuff. But the sarcasm ooooooooooooozes out onto my keyboard. Some things long discussed over time, and now some act like they were never ever stated before - because some people didn't post with their friends or enemies during the heated times. And tons of "general" comments towards Trump, and what his supporters here have or haven't supported, what they have and haven't condemned or not liked....

I simply do not want to post in return to you as I do with the liberals that pop into here from time to time, or other longer liberal members, from the past. And actually even, the affiliation doesn't matter. I would just rather not offer that back to a friend. I'd like to stay friends. I know friends debate/discuss and even fight at times like many have over the years. Just not in the mood lately, and that's on me for the mood issues and not wanting to reply with a billion things going on at home. And no, save the "I'll go back to not posting again.." as that's dumb and you're just fine. I'm merely starting by bailing from a few conversations, and especially this one after this.

A think a few weeks after I zoned in on Trump, the comments about the conservatives you 'used to know' or people you "thought" had certain stances but you must have been wrong, or just direct or indirect comments about Trump basically being a liberal - and the stances of former conservatives now have Trump liberal stances. My stances very rarely change and certainly haven't at all this go round. What I expect from different politicians may be slightly different as I just know what some are better at than others. From that January he took office, I knew certain "kissing ass" would not come from him to the news or most on the left. I knew certain things that weren't his 'specialty' if you will. I'm not sure any one of them has them all, some more than others though. But for what "I" wanted for our country, what I listed many times that I wanted, expected and even thought Trump could follow through with. And he's done just that for me. And unfortunately, if someone tells me that Trump has a few conservative things he did and the rest liberal/center, and then see me as that liberal he is I guess, dunno. But IMO, he's not only honored an endless amount of his promises/words, also already completed in 2 years many things I wanted, and continuing of course.... I have made no less than like 100-200 posts with factual lists, and some of them contained lists of conservative accomplishments. I'm not going back to rehash... but sucks that I posted and wrote about things like that so many times, and go very little or zero replies from folks thinking he's a liberal, or wanted to argue those accomplishments - but they went ignored by many. Blabbing again, I'll stop. Was just disappointed with a lot with a lot, and wanted to express that, and why I was writing that I'm not going to sit here and discuss this Rapper/Sweden/Trump/NK issue.


Ok. I wasn't trying to be sarcastic with you, not at all. Bottom line it doesn't matter if I am or not because when I post anything that isn't pro I'll get slammed.

I've seen the lists you've posted many times, I don't know if at first I tried to answer or not, but I have considered doing so. My problem with the list is where to start and stop? If I agree with a point, which I've actually agreed with many, even today, what does that mean? He's done many things I think are good, great even. Some that are truly terrible. Where I'm most concerned are things that we may not know for a long time. How does one respond to a list? A few of the points, we could discuss, but you never want to. If you'd like to take any of those lists, there are a lot of them, he's done a lot, I'd be glad to discuss agreement or not on a topic at a time, even two or three, but 200?

Pretty much the same as his tweets. Some good, some middling, some awful.

Last night I watched the rally in Cincinnati. Was talking to a friend after and said that it was really good. I could see what made some like him-he can be very positive, always a good thing. Then I saw the tweets on North Korea. Tweets. North Korea. All about Trump and how he is so liked by Kim and only he as President can do so many good things for Kim. Not one word about So. Korea. Japan. Philippines. Taiwan. Allies. Not one of them is looking to nuke us. But No. Korea-Kim in particular would like to...

Now, does allies, tweets, Kim, talking about oneself in the third person take away from what he's accomplished? The good speech he gave last night?

[jimnyc]

Ok. I wasn't trying to be sarcastic with you, not at all. Bottom line it doesn't matter if I am or not because when I post anything that isn't pro I'll get slammed.

We and others have all discussed just fine without anyone having to be pro Trump. Don't twist it please. If not for the things I pointed out, I have no issue whatsoever. None at all if you ain't pro-Trump and I've seen others there with us for awhile all discussing things absolutely fine. I have not seen anyone slam you at all for simply posting something that isn't pro Trump. Like I pointed out last week as well, all fine until I feel the sarcasm suddenly come oozing out, and that is when I either bail out or said something like today about things overall. I'm sure someone or some have slammed you, or some just disagreed. But it surely wasn't from me, and JUST from supporting Trump, I just don't see it.

[Gunny]

FYI ... The US government DOES buy back jailed Americans if it can, and foreigners look for excuses to charge Americans because the US Government will pay and our money is good, and worth a lot more there than it is here in most cases.

Example 1. When we were in Turkey, a kid ran into my dad's car moving faster than the car was and WE got arrested because the Turk went into his "the American killed me" act. Same Turk kid that was bouncing all over the court room 2 days later:rolleyes: My grandfather who was a bigtime supporter of and friends with Henry B Gonzales got on the phone with Henry and our asses were out of Turkey and in the US within a week. Pays to know people and not piss them off :)

Example 2. Every MEU has a lawyer whose function besides being the unit legal counsel is to buy back all the jarheads jailed in ports. We aren't talking capital offenses here. Marines and Sailors excel at fighting, destruction of property, falling down drunk in the street ... normal stuff like that. It's routine and I can only imagine purposefully not advertised in our stupid-ass media. It isn't called ransom because it is covered in the SOFA Agreement with the offended country. It's a fine and damages and no hanging around for a trial.

I haven't seen any of what Trump said, but can imagine, given his wont for shooting off at the mouth. got no problem with Kanye asking for help. Isn't that what our representatives are supposed to be for?

The real problem as I have seen it and see it? Americans are arrogant and think the law the doesn't apply to them and they take that outside our borders where they become even more arrogant. Especially entertainers who get into more trouble than they're worth IMO for the above the law shit they pull.

When in a foreign country you are subject to that country's laws. Whether or not you like it, agree with it, or feel your Rights that you don't have overseas are being violated.