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Kathianne
07-21-2019, 05:01 PM
I could be wrong, but seems we get much less info about the politics of UK, than vice versa. Anyways, here's something I found interesting:

https://www.npr.org/2019/07/21/743938222/for-britains-next-prime-minister-a-high-stakes-standoff-with-iran-awaits


WORLDFor Britain's Next Prime Minister, A High-Stakes Standoff With Iran Awaits
July 21, 20195:44 PM ET

Here's what the two look like:

https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2019/07/21/gettyimages-1155805249-e05f66b8653612779346acf46b4012151b032e5a-s800-c85.jpg

The United Kingdom is trying to defuse an escalating standoff with Iran just days before Britain's ruling Conservative Party announces the successor to Theresa May, who is resigning.


On Tuesday, the Tories are expected to declare Boris Johnson as their new leader. Johnson is a mercurial, pro-Brexit former foreign secretary who was also the London mayor and is not known for his diplomacy. If he's installed in office on Wednesday, as expected, he will inherit a full-blown international crisis, which erupted on Friday after Iran's Revolutionary Guard seized a British-flagged commercial oil tanker named the Stena Impero in the Strait of Hormuz.


Britain has warned its ships to stay out of the strait, which has become a focal point for tensions between the United States and Iran. Commercial tankers carry a fifth of the world's crude oil through the strait.


British Defense Secretary Penny Mordaunt called Iran's seizure of the Stena Impero and its 23 crew members "a hostile and illegal act." She insists the tanker, which was headed to a port in Saudi Arabia, was in the territorial waters of Oman when Iran's Revolutionary Guard raided it. Iran claims the Stena Impero had collided with an Iranian fishing vessel and violated maritime safety.

But Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt — who is the other candidate for prime minister — told reporters on Saturday that Iran wasn't hiding that the move was likely retaliatory. Hunt made the statement after speaking to his Iranian counterpart, Javad Zarif, by phone.


"It's clear from talking to him, and also statements made by Iran, that they see this as a tit for tat situation following Grace 1 being detained in Gibraltar," Hunt said.


Grace 1 is the Iranian-flagged tanker that Britain's Royal Marines raided on July 4 as it passed through waters off the coast of Gibraltar. The British say they impounded the tanker because they suspected it was heading to Syria in an attempt to circumvent European Union sanctions against the regime of Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad. The British are still holding the ship.


On Twitter, Zarif called the seizure of the tanker "piracy" and said Britain must "cease being an accessory to #Economic Terrorism of the U.S." Zarif insists Iran was upholding maritime law by impounding the Stena Impero.


Maritime security firm Dryad Global released audio on Sunday of the minutes before the tanker's capture. The Stena Impero's fate plays out in two radio calls. In one, an officer in Iran's Revolutionary Guard says, in English: "You are ordered to change your course to 3-6-0 degrees immediately. If you obey you will be safe." In another call, a Royal Navy officer on a British warship, the Montrose, tells the crew of the Stena Impero to stay on course.


"As you are conducting transit passage in a recognized international strait, under international law your passage must not be impaired, obstructed or hampered," the officer says.


The British say the Montrose prevented Iran from interfering with another British-flagged tanker earlier this month. But this time, the Montrose was more than an hour away, according to Mordaunt, the British defense secretary.


In footage released by Iran's Fars News Agency, Iranian speedboats and helicopters surrounded the Stena Impero. Masked marines from Iran's Revolutionary Guard are seen scaling down ropes from the helicopters onto the oil tanker. Soon, the Stena Impero was heading off course to the port of Bandar Abbas in Iran.


The Iranian government says the crew members, who hail from India, Russia, Latvia and the Philippines, are "safe and in good health." Of the 23 crew members, 18 are from India. "We are ascertaining further details on the incident," Indian government spokesman Raveesh Kumar said in a statement. "Our Mission is in touch with the Government of Iran to secure the early release and repatriation of Indian nationals."


The British are demanding the immediate release of the tanker and its crew — so far, to no avail. The U.K. Foreign Office also has summoned Iran's top diplomat in Britain.


Hunt says the tanker's seizure "shows worrying signs Iran may be choosing a dangerous path of illegal and destabilizing behaviour." He said the British government's reaction will be "considered but robust." Britain's Daily Telegraph newspaper reports that the U.K. is expected to announce "diplomatic and economic measures" against Iran on Monday.


U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who is traveling in Latin America, said Iran needs to be open to talks.


"The Iranian regime has to make a decision that it wants to behave like a normal nation, and if they do that, we're prepared to negotiate across a broad spectrum of issues," he said.


Iran's seizure of the Stena Impero is also prompting concern across Europe. In a statement, France said it condemns the action by Iran and expresses its "full solidarity with the United Kingdom." Germany released a statement calling the tanker's seizure "unjustifiable" and asking for Iran to immediately release the ship and its crew.


Britain, France and Germany are signatories to the 2015 Iran nuclear deal, which President Trump announced he would withdraw from last year. Under the pact, Iran agreed to curtail its nuclear work in exchange for the easing of sanctions. The U.S. withdrawal from the agreement was followed by new economic sanctions on Iran.


Iran has since breached the terms of the agreement, enriching uranium past the limit set by the deal.


Last week, John Negroponte, former U.S. director of national intelligence and ambassador to the United Nations, told NPR that Iran's breaches of the deal bring it closer to building a nuclear bomb.


"Enriching and stockpiling at levels higher than those agreed in the JCPOA would be a step toward nuclear breakout," Negroponte said, in reference to the nuclear deal. "Iran's newly announced levels appear modest at the moment, but would become more concerning if there were further increases. Such steps would imply a willingness on Iran's part to go all the way to construction of a bomb."


One-fifth of the world's oil supplies travel through the Strait of Hormuz, with tankers carrying crude from the Middle East to countries around the world. The waterway has been a focal point of escalating tensions between the U.S. and Iran.


The U.S. has said it is sending troops and air defense missiles to Saudi Arabia. Late Friday, the United States Central Command said it is working on a "multinational maritime effort" called Operation Sentinel "to increase surveillance of and security in key waterways in the Middle East to ensure freedom of navigation in light of recent events in the Arabian Gulf region."

Kathianne
07-21-2019, 05:27 PM
It's a complicated system. Sort of reminds me of early days in this republic, two top vote getters were President and Vice President. LOL!

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9553021/boris-johnson-sack-jeremy-hunt/

Gunny
07-21-2019, 07:03 PM
Okay, @Drummond (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=2287) who do we want to win and why? How many seats are up for grabs and what are they? I thought I read Johnson was the shoe-in to be the next PM?

High_Plains_Drifter
07-21-2019, 07:08 PM
This can only end in a war. I think that's what Iran wants. I could be wrong. That's just my opinion. When an entire nation is the #1 exporter, financier and enabler of world wide terrorism, it's just my opinion that war is all they know. I can't understand it, but it could have something to do with them being muslim as well. Conquer the world, kill the infidels, islam must rule the world, and while they were rich with oil money, they got to thinking it just might be possible. Now that they're going broke, they just can't give it up. It's all they know.

Just my two cents.

Kathianne
07-21-2019, 07:15 PM
More on Johnson:

https://www.apnews.com/5a3e0262dfaf4fdf994a3d330de4272f

Gunny
07-21-2019, 07:48 PM
More on Johnson:

https://www.apnews.com/5a3e0262dfaf4fdf994a3d330de4272fSo he started off by calling Trump a name. Great :laugh:

Kathianne
07-21-2019, 07:54 PM
So he started off by calling Trump a name. Great :laugh:

I think that was Hunt? LOL! Like Drummond has made clear, Trump isn't well liked by many over there.

Gunny
07-21-2019, 08:04 PM
I think that was Hunt? LOL! Like Drummond has made clear, Trump isn't well liked by many over there.In the meantime, right now, while the crap is going on in the ME, is not Theresa May the PM?

Kathianne
07-21-2019, 08:23 PM
In the meantime, right now, while the crap is going on in the ME, is not Theresa May the PM?

Very lame duck. I think it's set to be changed, Wednesday?

Elessar
07-21-2019, 09:40 PM
This can only end in a war. I think that's what Iran wants. I could be wrong. That's just my opinion. When an entire nation is the #1 exporter, financier and enabler of world wide terrorism, it's just my opinion that war is all they know. I can't understand it, but it could have something to do with them being muslim as well. Conquer the world, kill the infidels, islam must rule the world, and while they were rich with oil money, they go to thinking it just might be possible. Now that they're going broke, they just can't give it up. It's all they know.

Just my two cents.

At his point in time, I cannot help but to agree with your viewpoint than Iran is being an aggressor.

Drummond
07-21-2019, 11:27 PM
It's a small, but 'telling' point: we've been shown pictures of Iran flying the Iranian flag on the tanker they've seized.

I hope Jeremy Hunt is taking notes. I somehow seriously doubt he thinks that Iran is a particularly belligerent power: evidence of belligerence is acknowledged, yes, but he thinks they can be reasoned with and good results will be obtained via diplomacy ... as if reason and moderation can be expected to guide Iranian thinking.

As for Boris Johnson v Jeremy Hunt ... Boris has been well ahead in support throughout this leadership contest. When the candidates were whittled down to just the final two contenders (I can't remember if it all started out with 12 of them, or 14), he had over half of the total possible votes ... that was when four contenders were in the game, with the bottom two disqualified from continuing.

Everyone expects Boris to win. It's seen as certain enough for his win to almost become a mere formality.

Hunt v Johnson ... who do I want to win ?

Hunt comes across as more personable. He's a clearer and more accomplished speaker. Everything about his manner, in fact, makes him seem to me to be the better, more competent, more 'Prime Ministerial', candidate.

Ah, but, if only his policies were better .. !

Boris Johnson is unequivocal, unlike Hunt. Boris says we'll leave the EU on 31st October, 'come-what-may'. That makes him a deserving winner, right there. Both candidates (with Hunt at one time a 'Remainer') say they're working to get Brexit done by Halloween, BUT, Hunt refuses to guarantee an exit by that date. A fatal flaw: so many people are crying out to finally get it DEALT WITH.

Boris quotes Gatt 24, para 5b, as a way we can exit but with minimal harm. It would enact WTO trading rules for us, but is designed to keep tariffs to and from Europe at zero for us, potentially for up to a decade. So, where trade is concerned ... we'd be free to finally do deals of our own, AND be cushioned from EU-inspired tariff wars ... IF ... the EU agreed to 5b activation.

Hunt, so far as I know, has no position on any of that (none I'm aware of, anyway). He's too focused on getting some sort of EU deal worked out. This is despite the EU refusing to offer one, or, saying it'll even consider any alternative to the one which Parliament has rejected THREE times.

News: Philip Hammond, our Chancellor, says he'll resign as Chancellor if Boris wins. Reasons:

1. Hammond was originally a Remainer (within the EU). He says he now respects our need to leave the EU, but ...
2. .... will resign if Boris wins, because Boris wants a commitment from all future Cabinet ministers that they'll accept our exit by 31st October. Hammond opposes keeping to that deadline, 'come-what-may'.

Boris's approach is the one most respectful of the 2016 Referendum result. He comes across as a 'can do, therefore WILL do' candidate. Hunt does not. Much as he's doing over the tanker dispute with Iran ... he's more inclined to do deals and just fudge his way through difficulties.

We don't need that nonsense. So, I'm pro-Boris.

I've posted this before, by the way .. Boris was born in New York. If he ever chose to, he'd be entitled to claim American citizenship.

Drummond
07-21-2019, 11:28 PM
At his point in time, I cannot help to agree with your viewpoint than Iran is being an aggressor.

There's no doubt of it. Hoisting the Iranian flag on the captured tanker, tells its own story.

Drummond
07-21-2019, 11:33 PM
Very lame duck. I think it's set to be changed, Wednesday?

Yes, to both.

Drummond
07-21-2019, 11:39 PM
In the meantime, right now, while the crap is going on in the ME, is not Theresa May the PM?

Yes .. nominally. I'm not sure she's active in the role, though (though, she SHOULD be).

Normally, it'd be the PM who calls COBRA meetings (behind closed-doors, private security-oriented meetings held to address urgent or emergency security issues). This last one, on the subject of the seized tanker, was both called for and chaired by Jeremy Hunt, in his role as Foreign Secretary.

Theresa May will take part in Wednesday's Prime Minister's Questions session in the House of Commons. It'll be her last act as PM. Just afterwards, she'll be driven to Buckingham Palace to tender her resignation to the Queen.

Drummond
07-22-2019, 12:09 AM
Yes .. nominally. I'm not sure she's active in the role, though (though, she SHOULD be).

Normally, it'd be the PM who calls COBRA meetings (behind closed-doors, private security-oriented meetings held to address urgent or emergency security issues). This last one, on the subject of the seized tanker, was both called for and chaired by Jeremy Hunt, in his role as Foreign Secretary.

Theresa May will take part in Wednesday's Prime Minister's Questions session in the House of Commons. It'll be her last act as PM. Just afterwards, she'll be driven to Buckingham Palace to tender her resignation to the Queen.

Wow ... as you were ! I take it all back.

News just in ... Theresa May will chair another COBRA meeting over the tanker crisis, sometime today. So, she's not as inactive as I'd believed, folks.

Gunny
07-22-2019, 07:35 AM
Wow ... as you were ! I take it all back.

News just in ... Theresa May will chair another COBRA meeting over the tanker crisis, sometime today. So, she's not as inactive as I'd believed, folks.I was about to ask who exactly was running the country :laugh:

Gunny
07-22-2019, 07:42 AM
It's a small, but 'telling' point: we've been shown pictures of Iran flying the Iranian flag on the tanker they've seized.

I hope Jeremy Hunt is taking notes. I somehow seriously doubt he thinks that Iran is a particularly belligerent power: evidence of belligerence is acknowledged, yes, but he thinks they can be reasoned with and good results will be obtained via diplomacy ... as if reason and moderation can be expected to guide Iranian thinking.

As for Boris Johnson v Jeremy Hunt ... Boris has been well ahead in support throughout this leadership contest. When the candidates were whittled down to just the final two contenders (I can't remember if it all started out with 12 of them, or 14), he had over half of the total possible votes ... that was when four contenders were in the game, with the bottom two disqualified from continuing.

Everyone expects Boris to win. It's seen as certain enough for his win to almost become a mere formality.

Hunt v Johnson ... who do I want to win ?

Hunt comes across as more personable. He's a clearer and more accomplished speaker. Everything about his manner, in fact, makes him seem to me to be the better, more competent, more 'Prime Ministerial', candidate.

Ah, but, if only his policies were better .. !

Boris Johnson is unequivocal, unlike Hunt. Boris says we'll leave the EU on 31st October, 'come-what-may'. That makes him a deserving winner, right there. Both candidates (with Hunt at one time a 'Remainer') say they're working to get Brexit done by Halloween, BUT, Hunt refuses to guarantee an exit by that date. A fatal flaw: so many people are crying out to finally get it DEALT WITH.

Boris quotes Gatt 24, para 5b, as a way we can exit but with minimal harm. It would enact WTO trading rules for us, but is designed to keep tariffs to and from Europe at zero for us, potentially for up to a decade. So, where trade is concerned ... we'd be free to finally do deals of our own, AND be cushioned from EU-inspired tariff wars ... IF ... the EU agreed to 5b activation.

Hunt, so far as I know, has no position on any of that (none I'm aware of, anyway). He's too focused on getting some sort of EU deal worked out. This is despite the EU refusing to offer one, or, saying it'll even consider any alternative to the one which Parliament has rejected THREE times.

News: Philip Hammond, our Chancellor, says he'll resign as Chancellor if Boris wins. Reasons:

1. Hammond was originally a Remainer (within the EU). He says he now respects our need to leave the EU, but ...
2. .... will resign if Boris wins, because Boris wants a commitment from all future Cabinet ministers that they'll accept our exit by 31st October. Hammond opposes keeping to that deadline, 'come-what-may'.

Boris's approach is the one most respectful of the 2016 Referendum result. He comes across as a 'can do, therefore WILL do' candidate. Hunt does not. Much as he's doing over the tanker dispute with Iran ... he's more inclined to do deals and just fudge his way through difficulties.

We don't need that nonsense. So, I'm pro-Boris.

I've posted this before, by the way .. Boris was born in New York. If he ever chose to, he'd be entitled to claim American citizenship.Is that not what was thought of Sir Winston Churchill? Johnson looks like he uses Churchill as a fashion consultant, that's for sure :)

I am of the opinion that sometimes you just need an a-hole to get something done. Come what may, I wouldn't be surprised if Johnson gets dumped as soon as possible once he handles the dirty work just as Churchill was. History shows that once the gunfighter cleans up the town at the behest of the town, he's the first person the town gets rid of once their fear is gone.

Kathianne
07-22-2019, 07:49 AM
Is that not what was thought of Sir Winston Churchill? Johnson looks like he uses Churchill as a fashion consultant, that's for sure :)

I am of the opinion that sometimes you just need an a-hole to get something done. Come what may, I wouldn't be surprised if Johnson gets dumped as soon as possible once he handles the dirty work just as Churchill was. History shows that once the gunfighter cleans up the town at the behest of the town, he's the first person the town gets rid of once their fear is gone.

Johnson could be mistaken for Chris Matthews. :laugh:

Gunny
07-22-2019, 08:03 AM
Johnson could be mistaken for Chris Matthews. :laugh:That's awful :slap:

:laugh:

CSM
07-22-2019, 08:08 AM
Is that not what was thought of Sir Winston Churchill? Johnson looks like he uses Churchill as a fashion consultant, that's for sure :)

I am of the opinion that sometimes you just need an a-hole to get something done. Come what may, I wouldn't be surprised if Johnson gets dumped as soon as possible once he handles the dirty work just as Churchill was. History shows that once the gunfighter cleans up the town at the behest of the town, he's the first person the town gets rid of once their fear is gone.

Yep, nobody wants the sheep dog around until they need a sheep dog to run off the wolves. Once the wolves are gone, the sheep dog has to go. After all, he looks and acts like a wolf.

Gunny
07-22-2019, 08:26 AM
Yep, nobody wants the sheep dog around until they need a sheep dog to run off the wolves. Once the wolves are gone, the sheep dog has to go. After all, he looks and acts like a wolf.
Favoritist EVER :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3opoCWqrEPI

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
07-22-2019, 08:58 AM
Favoritist EVER :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3opoCWqrEPI

Great video clip my friend... I truly enjoyed it as it brought back memories of my own father.
John Wayne was acting . But the character he played in that part was pretty much same as was my father.
He spoke that way, acted that way -- and damn sure meant it.
He taught me it is far better to die than to back down(as cowards die many deaths, a brave man only one).
And also that one may only back down from a fight when the other man already has a gun pointed at you as you are yourself unarmed.
When that happens its important to stay smart, stay alive and get the bastard later when he does not have the drop on you.
Said it , lived it and he had the scars to prove it.. A fact... -Tyr