Progressive Church Indoctrinates ‘Youngest Disciples’

[jimnyc]

I'm sorryno I'm not, but me and my child would be out the exit door faster than it/he/she could even begin speaking.

How a church or any churches start going against beliefs is beyond me.

---

Progressive Church Indoctrinates ‘Youngest Disciples’ with Drag Queen Storytime During Service

Sometimes it seems as if there is nothing sacred left in America.

https://i.imgur.com/2ipY5zl.png

https://i.imgur.com/punHNub.png

On June 16, during what would normally be a routine Sunday morning worship service for churches around the country, Cincinnati’s Mount Auburn Presbyterian Church decided Pride month was a valid enough excuse to have one member dress in full drag and teach children LGBT history.

According to the Cincinnati Enquirer, church caretaker Dan Davidson taught children about Harvey Milk — California’s first openly gay elected official — using his bizarre guise of “Sparkle Leigh.”

As “Sparkle Leigh,” Davidson sported a pink dress, wore an inordinate amount of makeup and donned green curls.

He greeted parishioners who walked through the church doors, many of whom made positive comments on his gaudy attire and kissed him on the cheek.

“I don’t think I could walk in those,” one woman reportedly said in reference to Davidson’s high heels.

The “service” eventually began, starting with the song “God Welcomes All” performed by the church choir.

Davidson continued his drag queen persona during the service’s “moment with youngest disciples” and read a book about Milk’s time fighting those who discriminated against LGBT individuals in California.

The church’s congregation — made up of children, teenagers, adults and seniors — cheered at the victorious moments in Milk’s story.

Davidson also recounted the story of how he came out as an LGBT individual.

It’s all part of a running theme for the church as Pride month continues.

Rest - https://www.westernjournal.com/ct/progressive-church-indoctrinates-youngest-disciples-drag-queen-storytime-service/

[STTAB]

What the fuck that gotta do with church?

[Abbey Marie]

For the most part, and for a while now, the main line Protestant denoms have lost their way.
There are some that still preach the Bible, thank God, like our Baptist church, but the numbers seem to be dwindling. The Catholic churches seem to still be ok.

The Bible says if you lead the little ones astray, it’s better for you to have a millstone around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea.
Matthew 18:6

[Noir]

I like the idea of people deciding that churches ‘indoctrinating kids’ is suddenly a bad thing because they don’t believe they are being indoctrinated into the right set of beliefs.

[jimnyc]

I like the idea of people deciding that churches ‘indoctrinating kids’ is suddenly a bad thing because they don’t believe they are being indoctrinated into the right set of beliefs.

I's a church thing and there is no separate set of beliefs when you have a person in drag teaching things against the bible.

suddenly? Yeah, like there have always been folks in drag teaching against the bible. :rolleyes:

I like the idea that some folks speak out non-stop about christians - but can't find time to condemn anything islam nor anything on the left.

Your beliefs on hating religion are so so so far out there, due to you 'having it forced on you' it appears you developed a "hatred" for the bible and christianity. I guess you were indoctrinated and now developed hatred from it. Irrational when it's all that exsists outside the mighty atheism.

[jimnyc]

And when you write BS and you're called on it, you click like and run. You can troll as such against those that are religious, but can't take a reply and ignore it. Likely thinking you're above it or whatever - as if you coming in with your SUDDENLY crap isn't pushing buttons.

Shame you ignore and run away from the difficult stuff or when the heat goes up. I guess you expect to make snide comments as such and not get called on it?

[STTAB]

I like the idea of people deciding that churches ‘indoctrinating kids’ is suddenly a bad thing because they don’t believe they are being indoctrinated into the right set of beliefs.

I'm glad you like freedom speech, that's mighty white of you.

[Noir]

I's a church thing and there is no separate set of beliefs when you have a person in drag teaching things against the bible.

suddenly? Yeah, like there have always been folks in drag teaching against the bible. :rolleyes:

I like the idea that some folks speak out non-stop about christians - but can't find time to condemn anything islam nor anything on the left.

I was certain that posting in this thread would result in replies about Muslims and Islam, brilliant retort.


Your beliefs on hating religion are so so so far out there, due to you 'having it forced on you' it appears you developed a "hatred" for the bible and christianity. I guess you were indoctrinated and now developed hatred from it.

Yes, my youth groups, schooling, and public life (all overly religious) did a real good job at /indoctrinating/ me against religion, so I can thank them for that if nothing else.


Irrational when it's all that exsists outside the mighty atheism.

This is a confusing sentence, please elaborate.



And when you write BS and you're called on it, you click like and run. You can troll as such against those that are religious, but can't take a reply and ignore it. Likely thinking you're above it or whatever - as if you coming in with your SUDDENLY crap isn't pushing buttons.

Shame you ignore and run away from the difficult stuff or when the heat goes up. I guess you expect to make snide comments as such and not get called on it?

?
My time the last few weeks has been very limited, I’ve almost exclusively just been reading the odd thread and not replying. Apologies for ‘thanking’ you’re post and not being able to follow up immediately.


I'm glad you like freedom speech, that's mighty white of you.

This is more confusing still than Jim’s post.

[jimnyc]

brilliant retort.

You read, sit on for a week and then toss out garbage. No thanks.

[jimnyc]

I like the idea of people deciding that churches ‘indoctrinating kids’ is suddenly a bad thing because they don’t believe they are being indoctrinated into the right set of beliefs.


I's a church thing and there is no separate set of beliefs when you have a person in drag teaching things against the bible.

suddenly? Yeah, like there have always been folks in drag teaching against the bible. :rolleyes:

I like the idea that some folks speak out non-stop about christians - but can't find time to condemn anything islam nor anything on the left.

Your beliefs on hating religion are so so so far out there, due to you 'having it forced on you' it appears you developed a "hatred" for the bible and christianity. I guess you were indoctrinated and now developed hatred from it. Irrational when it's all that exsists outside the mighty atheism.


I was certain that posting in this thread would result in replies about Muslims and Islam, brilliant retort.

I think it's normal to point out any agenda from a poster and prior stances, any hypocrisy. I do the same with politicians. Since we are all replying on our opinions, I think it carries weight. And when you have someone who posts a LOT about and against the church and Christianity over the years, and is more or less silent, unless goaded, on Islam and current times atrocities, is worthy of pointing out. IMO, someone who speaks on both issues, all issues with both, is more believable than someone who ignores one side. ----*** for example but different - if someone consistently points out and/or demands justice for a perceived wrongdoing by someone on the right - and that someone also completely ignores ANY wrongdoing by folks on the left, even almost identical 'crimes', that persons opinion carries much less weight to me.


Yes, my youth groups, schooling, and public life (all overly religious) did a real good job at /indoctrinating/ me against religion, so I can thank them for that if nothing else.

I don't honestly know to what extent, never even visited there to be honest. And I fully disagree with forcing things like that upon young folks in public life. It surely wasn't my doing though, nor the USA. I would expect if you paid attention and learned a ton, that this is where you learned a lot. And even if it were forced in schools, it should be an elective and not mandatory. Anyway, so I know you have a chip on your shoulder and I know why, and I don't even blame you to an extent - but that's more the fault of your government and education system than it is the church or Christianity.


This is a confusing sentence, please elaborate.

Only when picked apart into pieces and out of context. In context, it simply means that I believe you see everything outside of atheism to be irrational.


?
My time the last few weeks has been very limited, I’ve almost exclusively just been reading the odd thread and not replying. Apologies for ‘thanking’ you’re post and not being able to follow up immediately.

I have seen you thank posts before as such, even when unmentioned members would say much more than insulting things to you. And here, you hit with a thanks and move on the same. There was no reason for me to see it any differently.

[Noir]

I think it's normal to point out any agenda from a poster and prior stances, any hypocrisy. I do the same with politicians. Since we are all replying on our opinions, I think it carries weight. And when you have someone who posts a LOT about and against the church and Christianity over the years, and is more or less silent, unless goaded, on Islam and current times atrocities, is worthy of pointing out. IMO, someone who speaks on both issues, all issues with both, is more believable than someone who ignores one side. ----*** for example but different - if someone consistently points out and/or demands justice for a perceived wrongdoing by someone on the right - and that someone also completely ignores ANY wrongdoing by folks on the left, even almost identical 'crimes', that persons opinion carries much less weight to me.

Im surprised you aren’t bored by explaining that this - I’ve stated plenty of times that I’m not interested posting in threads with everyone else agreeing about how atrocious Islam is. Get some pro-Islamic posters on the board then maybe.


I don't honestly know to what extent, never even visited there to be honest. And I fully disagree with forcing things like that upon young folks in public life. It surely wasn't my doing though, nor the USA. I would expect if you paid attention and learned a ton, that this is where you learned a lot. And even if it were forced in schools, it should be an elective and not mandatory. Anyway, so I know you have a chip on your shoulder and I know why, and I don't even blame you to an extent - but that's more the fault of your government and education system than it is the church or Christianity.

The government, education boards etc are all but run by the churches, and are very proud of it.


Only when picked apart into pieces and out of context. In context, it simply means that I believe you see everything outside of atheism to be irrational.

Then you believe wrong.


I have seen you thank posts before as such, even when unmentioned members would say much more than insulting things to you. And here, you hit with a thanks and move on the same. There was no reason for me to see it any differently.

Then that is an imagining on your side, not mine.

[STTAB]

Noir, I would take you more seriously if you would occasionally condemn something ridiculous from the left, And I say the same about all leftists, no matter how crazy the stance someone takes every leftist defends them.

[Kathianne]

Noir, I would take you more seriously if you would occasionally condemn something ridiculous from the left, And I say the same about all leftists, no matter how crazy the stance someone takes every leftist defends them.


I agree with that, though would say the same on most issues that have to do with the right too. Oh sure, there's an occasional, 'Well I wished he'd have put it differently, but heh, look at the other side...'

Everything today is justified or reactionary. From the left. From the right. NO, I'm not saying all is equal, I'm saying both do it as the norm. It's the new way.

[jimnyc]

Im surprised you aren’t bored by explaining that this - I’ve stated plenty of times that I’m not interested posting in threads with everyone else agreeing about how atrocious Islam is. Get some pro-Islamic posters on the board then maybe.

The government, education boards etc are all but run by the churches, and are very proud of it.

Then you believe wrong.

Then that is an imagining on your side, not mine.

And yet almost everyone also agrees on christian issues, and that doesn't stop you from speaking in such threads. But I get the difference. Nonetheless, it gives more than the appearance that you are against Christianity but don't care much to speak out against CURRENT things that happen beyond daily.

And again, I understand where much of the animosity comes from due to your upbringing. I just wish that you, and many many many others would live in an area that is "terrorized". And no, I don't want harm to you or others, just a larger experience towards Islam. I was near a massive event that they undertook. It made me look a LOT closer at them and Islam in general. I would hate to so a repeat of anything that day, whether here again or elsewhere. I think the world knowing more about Islam is important, knowledge of the amount of those radicalized. Knowledge to the extent that not only "right wingers" are the ones complaining about the treatment they give women and gay folks all the time - which a lot is death. But so much of the left in politics, and then the left supporters - condemn mistreatment of women till they pass out, and will condemn bad treatment to gay folks until they die. But barely a peep from them about the daily atrocities to both. And the comparison isn't even a comparison. The complaints are about treatment where folks walk away - and the other side doesn't get to walk away.

Perhaps I am wrong. But you are a solid supporter of atheism & 90% of your posts on the church on down surely lead me to believe that you think much of it is wrong, or I feel that you look at it as irrational. Again, perhaps I'm wrong if you say so. But then you believe in others having "faith" and you also believe that this is normal behavior to have faith in a being that is higher than you. That's MY take, not words you have stated.

So when someone posts and tells you to "fuck off" in no uncertain terms, or calls you a "pussy" or a "coward" or other horrible things - and you "thank" them for the post - you're saying that those thanks in such instances are genuine? I'm sorry, I find that hard to believe.

[STTAB]

I agree with that, though would say the same on most issues that have to do with the right too. Oh sure, there's an occasional, 'Well I wished he'd have put it differently, but heh, look at the other side...'

Everything today is justified or reactionary. From the left. From the right. NO, I'm not saying all is equal, I'm saying both do it as the norm. It's the new way.

It is, but the left does it FAR more than the right, that really can't be argued. Since this thread is about religion sort of anyway. Let's just use the two main religions as examples, Christians most certainly do condemn whack job "Christians" who do evil things, you will RARELY see Muslims call out evil from other Muslims, and now you hardly ever see any liberals call out evil from Muslims, but oh they sure are there to claim every white person who does something evil is a Christian.

[Kathianne]

It is, but the left does it FAR more than the right, that really can't be argued. Since this thread is about religion sort of anyway. Let's just use the two main religions as examples, Christians most certainly do condemn whack job "Christians" who do evil things, you will RARELY see Muslims call out evil from other Muslims, and now you hardly ever see any liberals call out evil from Muslims, but oh they sure are there to claim every white person who does something evil is a Christian.


I don't really see that 'way more,' likely because I don't read the far left quite as carefully. From the left I find more 'in your face' of they are correct, on everything.

See Eugene Robinson's article today, basically tells any conservatives to 'pound sand,' not going to find a Democrat candidate that isn't nutso left. His point being, 'Trump or no vote.' That won't happen.

[jimnyc]

I agree with that, though would say the same on most issues that have to do with the right too. Oh sure, there's an occasional, 'Well I wished he'd have put it differently, but heh, look at the other side...'

Everything today is justified or reactionary. From the left. From the right. NO, I'm not saying all is equal, I'm saying both do it as the norm. It's the new way.

I sure as hell support the right much more, and I condemn the left much more - but there are certain things where no on is immune - and IMO that is legal things, where folks have broken laws and/or obviously did but were never held accountable. Righty or lefty - I say "adios" to them and they should be in prison or out of government. I have, regarding legal issues, held both sides responsible and condemned both sides when busted or it's beyond obvious. Sometimes when there is wrongdoing, it must be condemned regardless of the side any such person is on. Of course that's debatable on day 1 if said accusations are not provable. But anytime it goes beyond that, then it also goes beyond right or left IMO. I also do see folks on the right, in the past 3 decades or so, being held accountable, charged and/or jailed. And yeah, it may happen on both sides at times, it's much more so on the right. And not even nearly because they are more guilty or anything like that, I even believe the opposite. But I think the left never holds themselves accountable. Their supporters don't do so. And the dumb right rarely pushes things to the levels needed, IMO. :(

With that said, they're all crooks in the sense that they don't do their jobs, give themselves raises and stay forever and always ignore their constituents. In a general sense of course, as you know I like to address everything individually.

[Kathianne]

I sure as hell support the right much more, and I condemn the left much more - but there are certain things where no on is immune - and IMO that is legal things, where folks have broken laws and/or obviously did but were never held accountable. Righty or lefty - I say "adios" to them and they should be in prison or out of government. I have, regarding legal issues, held both sides responsible and condemned both sides when busted or it's beyond obvious. Sometimes when there is wrongdoing, it must be condemned regardless of the side any such person is on. Of course that's debatable on day 1 if said accusations are not provable. But anytime it goes beyond that, then it also goes beyond right or left IMO. I also do see folks on the right, in the past 3 decades or so, being held accountable, charged and/or jailed. And yeah, it may happen on both sides at times, it's much more so on the right. And not even nearly because they are more guilty or anything like that, I even believe the opposite. But I think the left never holds themselves accountable. Their supporters don't do so. And the dumb right rarely pushes things to the levels needed, IMO. :(

With that said, they're all crooks in the sense that they don't do their jobs, give themselves raises and stay forever and always ignore their constituents. In a general sense of course, as you know I like to address everything individually.


Used to be true. Honestly, the right is 'getting in your face,' nearly as much as the left nowadays. IMO.

[STTAB]

Used to be true. Honestly, the right is 'getting in your face,' nearly as much as the left nowadays. IMO.

Because they have learned that if you don't fight fire with fire, you will lose. That is exactly why Trump won the nomination in 2016 , Republicans were sick of of nominating their generally nice guy milquetoast candidates and then watching them get gang raped by Democrats until they threw up their hands and admitted that yes in fact they are racist sexist pigs and then lost the election.

[jimnyc]

Used to be true. Honestly, the right is 'getting in your face,' nearly as much as the left nowadays. IMO.

No, what I mean by pushing to levels needed - is pushing for investigations and ACTUALLY having them and actually holding people accountable on the left, and jailing any of them who have equally did crimes that folks on the right have been jailed for.

I agree with the getting in the face thing to a large extent. Just for me, I believe that like many other things - is something that both do but the left much more. Doesn't make either side innocent of course.

[Kathianne]

No, what I mean by pushing to levels needed - is pushing for investigations and ACTUALLY having them and actually holding people accountable on the left, and jailing any of them who have equally did crimes that folks on the right have been jailed for.

I agree with the getting in the face thing to a large extent. Just for me, I believe that like many other things - is something that both do but the left much more. Doesn't make either side innocent of course.

Oh I expect with the next D president or S president, we'll see more investigation calls from the right. I'm pretty sure I remember lots of calls for investigations-some of which were conducted on Benghazi, IRS to shut down right tax exempt; Solandra and other 'green' boondoggles. There were more.

[jimnyc]

Oh I expect with the next D president or S president, we'll see more investigation calls from the right. I'm pretty sure I remember lots of calls for investigations-some of which were conducted on Benghazi, IRS to shut down right tax exempt; Solandra and other 'green' boondoggles. There were more.

There were a ton of lip service calls for in-depth investigations, but so so much over the past 2 decades have never reached levels needed. Benghazi yes, that one was, but of course the main person responsible for the deaths lies about things and is the one never held accountable at all.

[Kathianne]

There were a ton of lip service calls for in-depth investigations, but so so much over the past 2 decades have never reached levels needed. Benghazi yes, that one was, but of course the main person responsible for the deaths lies about things and is the one never held accountable at all.


I'm not trying to be a jerk, but these investigations into President Trump and his administration haven't really gone much further. Lasted longer, but that may have to do with the House now.

Truth is, Congress has always been investigating 'something,' it makes news. Of course with President Trump's popularity in the MSM, he gets so much more play. If he didn't, we both know he'd be tweeting so that they would cover it. Just spell the name right.

[Noir]

And yet almost everyone also agrees on christian issues, and that doesn't stop you from speaking in such threads.

Because I don’t agree, which is the whole point.


I just wish that you, and many many many others would live in an area that is "terrorized"

Lolol, you might want to read up a bit on Northern Ireland.


Perhaps I am wrong. But you are a solid supporter of atheism & 90% of your posts on the church on down surely lead me to believe that you think much of it is wrong, or I feel that you look at it as irrational. Again, perhaps I'm wrong if you say so. But then you believe in others having "faith" and you also believe that this is normal behavior to have faith in a being that is higher than you. That's MY take, not words you have stated.

Over time I’ve become more and more convinced that the term “atheism” is a stumbling block, I think the above quote puts that well.


So when someone posts and tells you to "fuck off" in no uncertain terms, or calls you a "pussy" or a "coward" or other horrible things - and you "thank" them for the post - you're saying that those thanks in such instances are genuine? I'm sorry, I find that hard to believe.

The thanks is an enabler of self-reflection (such as it is), I am genuine in my want for the poster to reflect.

[jimnyc]

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but these investigations into President Trump and his administration haven't really gone much further. Lasted longer, but that may have to do with the House now.

Truth is, Congress has always been investigating 'something,' it makes news. Of course with President Trump's popularity in the MSM, he gets so much more play. If he didn't, we both know he'd be tweeting so that they would cover it. Just spell the name right.

But the Mueller investigation as well as a few congressional investigations - they WERE investigated in depth at least, just nothing came of it that the left would have wanted.

That's all I ever asked for. Hold them accountable. Do these full investigations. Allow for ALL the facts to come out. And if still not found guilty, then so be it. But with endless things Hillary that never happened. Could list many others and offenses but you get the idea.

[Kathianne]

Because I don’t agree, which is the whole point.



Lolol, you might want to read up a bit on Northern Ireland.



Over time I’ve become more and more convinced that the term “atheism” is a stumbling block, I think the above quote puts that well.



The thanks is an enabler of self-reflection (such as it is), I am genuine in my want for the poster to reflect.

I like that! :laugh:

[Kathianne]

But the Mueller investigation as well as a few congressional investigations - they WERE investigated in depth at least, just nothing came of it that the left would have wanted.

That's all I ever asked for. Hold them accountable. Do these full investigations. Allow for ALL the facts to come out. And if still not found guilty, then so be it. But with endless things Hillary that never happened. Could list many others and offenses but you get the idea.

I'm pretty sure that Holder got more than just a slap on the wrist.

[Noir]

Noir, I would take you more seriously if you would occasionally condemn something ridiculous from the left, And I say the same about all leftists, no matter how crazy the stance someone takes every leftist defends them.

There aren’t leftists on this forum to discuss anything with, and on the very rare occasions that there is one they are meet with a wall of insults that result in them either leaving, or returning insults and leaving.

I also have zero interest in you taking me seriously or not.

[Kathianne]

There aren’t leftists on this forum to discuss anything with, and on the very rare occasions that there is one they are meet with a wall of insults that result in them either leaving, or returning insults and leaving.

I also have zero interest in you taking me seriously or not.


I'll likely never be left, but I can move from right to center on many issues.

[jimnyc]

Because I don’t agree, which is the whole point.

Lolol, you might want to read up a bit on Northern Ireland.

Over time I’ve become more and more convinced that the term “atheism” is a stumbling block, I think the above quote puts that well.

The thanks is an enabler of self-reflection (such as it is), I am genuine in my want for the poster to reflect.

I should have been more specific - ISLAMIC terrorism. I'm a little more than aware of the terror related activities in NI, the IRA and other things. Not what I meant at all, but see how you read it as such without me being specific.

I can leave out atheism, just thought that was the appropriate term. But someone who doesn't believe in God, Jesus Christ & the bible. Fair? No?

Personally, I'm not thanking someone for going out of their way to say such things. I believe you are naive if you thank someone for such a post and expect them to somehow reflect and now be a "non-insulter". If you say that is the intent and it's genuine from you, then I respect that, just don't understand why you expect any results from such. You know what the following is?


doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

[Kathianne]

I should have been more specific - ISLAMIC terrorism. I'm a little more than aware of the terror related activities in NI, the IRA and other things. Not what I meant at all, but see how you read it as such without me being specific.

I can leave out atheism, just thought that was the appropriate term. But someone who doesn't believe in God, Jesus Christ & the bible. Fair? No?

Personally, I'm not thanking someone for going out of their way to say such things. I believe you are naive if you thank someone for such a post and expect them to somehow reflect and now be a "non-insulter". If you say that is the intent and it's genuine from you, then I respect that, just don't understand why you expect any results from such. You know what the following is?

I'd go with agnostic, perhaps. Though he might believe in 'nature' as a deity? In any case, being atheist means 'no god, nothing. Living things, they die. That's it, mulch. Do good, you only have once to do so.'

Agnostics, 'Don't know if there's a god or not, waiting to decide.'

[jimnyc]

I'm pretty sure that Holder got more than just a slap on the wrist.

What punishments did he receive and for which events?

IMO, there are several things he did that should have been held more responsible for in some way - as in behind bars! And that's just Holder. I believe what you speak of, and correct me if I'm wrong - but his being held in contempt both criminally and civil? And then Obama said it was political motivated, refused to remove him and it was then the DOJ and himself who investigated it and they more or less declined to do so.

In addition to that one...

Ft. Hood "workplace violence". Just scandalous....

DOJ spying on reporters

Also spying on a Fox reporter

Being nice to terrorists....

Ignores things like Black Panthers and voter intimidation at poll booths...

No to voter ID

-- Fast and furious!!

More Islam support....

Some from here - https://www.redstate.com/diary/candicelanier/2013/06/26/sixteen-scandals-the-legacy-of-eric-holder/

Avoiding prosecuting so much

We are a nation of cowards

More - http://www.nonsensibleshoes.com/2013/05/top-10-eric-holder-scandals-to-date.html

[Noir]

I should have been more specific - ISLAMIC terrorism. I'm a little more than aware of the terror related activities in NI, the IRA and other things. Not what I meant at all, but see how you read it as such without me being specific.

When was the last time you checked under your car for a bomb placed by an Islamic terrorist? tbh I think you need a few Christian terrorists nearer you so you can enjoy what that kind of life has to offer you.


I can leave out atheism, just thought that was the appropriate term. But someone who doesn't believe in God, Jesus Christ & the bible. Fair? No?

The thought goes - why is a word needed to describe a negative? I’m not 100% on board with that, but I certainly see it’s merits.

[Kathianne]

What punishments did he receive and for which events?

IMO, there are several things he did that should have been held more responsible for in some way - as in behind bars! And that's just Holder. I believe what you speak of, and correct me if I'm wrong - but his being held in contempt both criminally and civil? And then Obama said it was political motivated, refused to remove him and it was then the DOJ and himself who investigated it and they more or less declined to do so.

In addition to that one...

Ft. Hood "workplace violence". Just scandalous....

DOJ spying on reporters

Also spying on a Fox reporter

Being nice to terrorists....

Ignores things like Black Panthers and voter intimidation at poll booths...

No to voter ID

-- Fast and furious!!

More Islam support....

Some from here - https://www.redstate.com/diary/candicelanier/2013/06/26/sixteen-scandals-the-legacy-of-eric-holder/

Avoiding prosecuting so much

We are a nation of cowards

More - http://www.nonsensibleshoes.com/2013/05/top-10-eric-holder-scandals-to-date.html


The House held him in contempt. I personally think that the Republicans could have done more with both him and Loretta Lynch. I personally thought the whole damn bunch of them, especially Hillary should have been indicted.

Part of Trump's problems are made by him on Twitter and by talking about his 'great deal of money, no reason to do this, ' and no transparency on the financials-something all Presidents and candidates had done in recent times.

[Noir]

I'll likely never be left, but I can move from right to center on many issues.

True - and to that extent I think we’ve had many discussions over the years from various sides of the fence, both with each other and against other posters.

[Kathianne]

True - and to that extent I think we’ve had many discussions over the years from various sides of the fence, both with each other and against other posters.

Indeed. Both of us too have inquiring minds. I like to see things from other's perspectives. I may still think they are on the wrong path, but I can let it be.

[jimnyc]

The thought goes - why is a word needed to describe a negative? I’m not 100% on board with that, but I certainly see it’s merits.

How then, or what would you call folks as a group? Just as the collective group are "Christians". Just "Non Christians"? A non-believer? Or no descriptive are acceptable? It's not something negative just as Christians is not. You have referred to yourself as an atheist before, and posted times about atheist standings and literature, so I'm confused. Perhaps something changed with who you are and no longer an atheist? Dunno.


When was the last time you checked under your car for a bomb placed by an Islamic terrorist? tbh I think you need a few Christian terrorists nearer you so you can enjoy what that kind of life has to offer you.

When was the last time you were near where Islam killed 3,000 people? Or not far from someone who had their heads cut off by an Islamic terrorist.

I doubt I need to know much more about the type of terrorism you speak of over there, as I have condemned quite a few times. Also even condemned actions of christians from hundreds and hundreds of years ago. I have no issue in speaking out against such if ever posted about.

Better than my own thoughts on this subject, so glad you asked for it. ;) And this is not to diminish anything from NI - as to me - ALL terrorism is bad and all terrorists should meet their demise. And all are worthy of speaking out against.

---

The Northern Ireland Conflict: Same as Sunni-Shia?

Was the Northern Ireland conflict really the same?

The conflict that consumed Northern Ireland for so many years following 1969 is often described as a war between Catholic and Protestant Christians. Knowing no more than this, many assume that religion was the point of contention, and that Christians were actually killing each other over theological differences in the same way that the Shiites and Sunnis have been going at it for fourteen centuries. Throw in the Crusades - sans historical context - and suddenly Christianity looks a lot like Islam... at least in theory.

This comparison tends to delight Muslims, while frustrating religious Christians.

Although Northern Ireland is used paradoxically by multiculturalists (to denigrate Christianity) and by Muslims (to improve the standing of Islam), it is not necessarily comparable to Islamic terror simply on the cursory observation that the warring parties were generally aligned into sectarian factions.

Even if we accept all of the premises assumed, there is still the obvious matter of degree. More civilians are killed every three months by Islamic terrorists than died in the entire 36 years of the Northern Ireland "Troubles." In fact, 19 Muslim radicals killed more innocent people in just two hours on September 11th than the number of non-combatants killed over Northern Ireland in three and a half decades.

As far as body counts from sectarian violence goes, the Muslim world offers up far more than the ten to fifteen people who were killed each month on average before the Belfast Agreement in 1998. Take the Iraq-Iran war, for example... or can we?

In fact, not all violence in the Islamic world is necessarily about religion. Certainly Muslims wage Jihad to spread their faith, and many die in true sectarian violence, but neither are their leaders above starting conflicts for political and territorial ambitions.

Was the Northern Ireland conflict truly a religious sectarian war, in the same way that Sunnis and Shiites violently bump heads for no other reason? Or was religion largely incidental to differences that were predominantly economic and political?

To be fair, religious sectarianism has played a role in the historical tension between the Irish and English. For centuries, Catholics were victims of institutionalized discrimination, and it would certainly be hard to argue that the brutal Puritan invasion of Ireland under Oliver Cromwell wasn't motivated in part by religious hatred. However, this was several centuries prior to the violence of the late 20th century.

Northern Ireland was provisioned as a separate territory in 1922. This point of contention between England and the Republic of Ireland turned habitually violent in 1969 with the formation of the IRA (Irish Republican Army), a terror group that was considered to be the armed wing of the Sinn Fein political party, which supports Irish nationalism and Marxist ideology. The violence abated in the mid-1990's with an agreement between the sides.

Rest - https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/ira-islam.aspx

[Drummond]

There aren’t leftists on this forum to discuss anything with, and on the very rare occasions that there is one they are meet with a wall of insults that result in them either leaving, or returning insults and leaving.

I also have zero interest in you taking me seriously or not.

Perhaps, Noir, it's a matter of 'if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen' ... ? H'm .. ?

As I see it, I for one want to see Leftist thinkers join. Once they do, and once they engage in debate .. then, I want to see the beliefs they post properly challenged.

Once properly challenged, I then expect those challenges to defeat them. Why ? Because Right wing thinking, and the standards it reflects, are superior. They are RIGHT. Therefore, being fully justified and meritorious, they'll win out.

Problem is though, Noir, that a Left-winger's belief system is entirely built upon propagandist illusion. It can't stand to be seriously challenged. So, Leftists run. They don't engage beyond a certain point, not seriously at any rate, because they DARE NOT.

Some, I grant you (a very few) still remain, slugging it out ... to the extent they can. I regard you as remarkable because you do this to the extent you do, Noir. But you're in a minority, precisely because you, of practical necessity, HAVE to be. Oh, you'll get the occasional Leftie who'll substitute rational argument for denigration, done for effect ... such as one individual (now not present, unsurprisingly) who heaped denigratory posting against me because, as we both well knew, I kept besting him, AND calling him out on what was the TRUTH of him, and his beliefs.

He ultimately didn't prevail, Noir. He lacked the righteous foundation necessary to prevail.

So, no. These Leftists don't run because they get treated 'shabbily'. They run because they know they can only do so much to defend their positions. They know that they will be bested, so, they run before the heat of the kitchen becomes too unbearable, costing them a crumbling of the propagandist, illusory edifice their whole foundation is built upon.

[Noir]

How then, or what would you call folks as a group? Just as the collective group are "Christians". Just "Non Christians"? A non-believer? Or no descriptive are acceptable? It's not something negative just as Christians is not. You have referred to yourself as an atheist before, and posted times about atheist standings and literature, so I'm confused. Perhaps something changed with who you are and no longer an atheist? Dunno.

To the extent that the term is used I am an atheist, and (as you are pointing out) it’s useful to have a short-hand term to mean what atheist means, however, the convenience of the term brings with it baggage that is unhelpful. To put another way - What do you call a group of people that don’t believe in Astrology, or Fairies , or Chakras, or Crystal Healing etc etc, there isn’t a name for non-belief because it doesn’t make sense for to have one.


When was the last time you were near where Islam killed 3,000 people? Or not far from someone who had their heads cut off by an Islamic terrorist.

I doubt I need to know much more about the type of terrorism you speak of over there, as I have condemned quite a few times. Also even condemned actions of christians from hundreds and hundreds of years ago. I have no issue in speaking out against such if ever posted about.

Better than my own thoughts on this subject, so glad you asked for it. ;) And this is not to diminish anything from NI - as to me - ALL terrorism is bad and all terrorists should meet their demise. And all are worthy of speaking out against.

Then we agree.


The Northern Ireland Conflict: Same as Sunni-Shia?

Its clear from the very poor wording in this price that the author is not Northern Irish, nor do they have what would appear to be more than a casual understanding of the ongoing conflict. They have not chosen to put their name beside their work.


Perhaps, Noir, it's a matter of 'if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen' ... ? H'm .. ?

Would you willingly continue to post on a majority liberal forum where you were consistently insulted and so on?



Once properly challenged, I then expect those challenges to defeat them. Why ? Because Right wing thinking, and the standards it reflects, are superior. They are RIGHT. Therefore, being fully justified and meritorious, they'll win out.

You do your funniest work when you’re being serious.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

To the extent that the term is used I am an atheist, and (as you are pointing out) it’s useful to have a short-hand term to mean what atheist means, however, the convenience of the term brings with it baggage that is unhelpful. To put another way - What do you call a group of people that don’t believe in Astrology, or Fairies , or Chakras, or Crystal Healing etc etc, there isn’t a name for non-belief because it doesn’t make sense for to have one.



Then we agree.



Its clear from the very poor wording in this price that the author is not Northern Irish, nor do they have what would appear to be more than a casual understanding of the ongoing conflict. They have not chosen to put their name beside their work.



Would you willingly continue to post on a majority liberal forum where you were consistently insulted and so on?




You do your funniest work when you’re being serious.

Now now Noir ,, you got caught attempting to compare apples and oranges with that N. IRELAND TERRORISM CRAP comparison you made .
As if it compares with Islam its tens of thousands murders over these last 3 decades and its continued ramping up
(worldwide) in terrorism and its desire to get nukes to be able to murder millions in the future.
Nice try , but it truly was such a weak attempt that it made me laugh. --Tyr