Prelude to the next World War?

[CSM]

News report released today of two tankers attacked in the Gulf. Still under investigation; some suspect torpedo or limpit mines. The timing is very suspicious too given increased tensions between Iran and the US. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I think we're in for another WW. I honestly don't think there's any way to avoid.

Makes me wonder though if it will turn nuclear. We'd ruin the planet. Everybody would be dead sooner or later, but the Bible says Christ will return before then. Yep... makes me wonder. The Bible says that the rulers of the earth will bow to Christ in judgement. Oh how I'd love to see that.

[Kathianne]

Iran's benefactor? Russia. Days ago:

https://www.businessinsider.com/russias-story-on-near-collision-with-us-navy-cruiser-suspicious-2019-6


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCMPtTD3vYM

[STTAB]

I believe we're more likely to see a civil war in this country than a world war. Iran can bluster all they want, the reality is they know we'd fuck them up in a shooting war.

Our biggest rival, China obviously, isn't interested in getting in a shooting war with us. They intend to defeat us without firing a shot.

[jimnyc]

Looks like the USA has officially stated they believe it was Iran. That's not good.

---

Iran responsible for 'blatant assault' on oil tankers in Gulf of Oman, Mike Pompeo says

U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has blamed Iran for the "blatant assault" on oil tankers in the Gulf of Oman earlier Thursday.

In a press conference Thursday afternoon, Pompeo said: “This assessment is based on intelligence, the weapons used, the level of expertise needed to execute the operation, recent similar Iranian attacks on shipping, and the fact that no proxy group operating in the area has the resources and proficiency to act with such a high degree of sophistication.”

He charged that Iran is working to disrupt the flow of oil through the Strait of Hormuz and this is a deliberate part of a campaign to escalate tension, adding that the U.S. will defend its forces and interests in the region, although he did not elaborate.

His comments came shortly after a senior U.S. defense official told Fox News that the U.S. Navy saw an unexploded mine attached to the hull of the Panama-listed, Japanese-owned Kokuka Courageous ship, one of the two ships attacked. It is the same type of mine used to damage four oil tankers last month in the same area - an attack senior Pentagon officials blamed on Iran.

A spokesman for Taiwan's CPC Corp oil refiner, which chartered the other boat attacked on Thursday morning, the Front Altair, said it was "suspected of being hit by a torpedo", although this not been confirmed.

Rest - https://www.foxnews.com/world/highly-likely-iran-responsible-oil-tanker-attack-gulf-oman-defense

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Well... let's get it over with... WW... Civil War... the sooner the better. I think the world is begging for another "correction." I've been "prepping" for years. If all I ever have to do is defend what's mine and survive on my own property, I can do that for quite awhile. But if a bomb gets dropped on me, I'm gone, but I'll go down fighting.

Too many little shit heads that are alive today voting and have been brain washed don't know what a real war is like. They need a wake up call. The world is a hostile place. It's not a utopia and never will be. Mankind is incapable of everyone living together in some kind of fairy tale utopian peace. There's too many people on the planet and too many with nefarious ambitions that wield too much power. War is all we know. It's been that way since the dawn of time.

[jimnyc]

A video was also released yesterday that apparently shows the Iranian Revolutionary Guard removing an unexploded bomb from the oil tanker. It's clear they pull up alongside the stricken ship and do something, but that's about all you can make out in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb5mISH9MmM

---

U.S Assessment Blames Gulf Tanker Attacks on Iran

(CNSNews.com) – Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Thursday accused the Iranian regime of responsibility for attacks on two tankers near the Persian Gulf, and slapped down his Iranian counterpart for a tweet insinuating some sort of anti-Iran conspiracy behind the incident.

"It is the assessment of the United States government that the Islamic Republic of Iran is responsible for the attacks that occurred in the Gulf of Oman today," Pompeo said. "This assessment is based on intelligence, the weapons used, the level of expertise needed to execute the operation, recent similar Iranian attacks on shipping, and the fact that no proxy group operating in the area has the resources and proficiency to act with such a high degree of sophistication.”

He quoted Foreign Minister Javad Zarif as having “sardonically” tweeted, “Suspicious doesn’t begin to describe what likely transpired this morning.”

“Foreign Minister Zarif may think this is funny, but no one else in the world does,” Pompeo said.

Two tankers caught fire after explosions in the Gulf of Oman south of the Strait of Hormuz early on Thursday, and crews were forced to abandon ship. The ships were the Japanese-owned Kokuka Courageous, carrying a cargo of methanol, and the Norwegian-owned Front Altair, laden with naphtha.

Just a month ago, four tankers sustained damage in similar incidents, also in the Gulf of Oman but closer to the United Arab Emirates coast. The U.S. accused Iran of responsibility in that case, and the UAE told the U.N. Security Council a “state actor” was most likely behind those attacks. Iran denied responsibility.

Rest - https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/patrick-goodenough/pompeo-after-gulf-tanker-attacks-zarif-may-think-funny-no-one-else

[jimnyc]

News report released today of two tankers attacked in the Gulf. Still under investigation; some suspect torpedo or limpit mines. The timing is very suspicious too given increased tensions between Iran and the US. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

Seems like you nailed it in your assessment!! And 2 of our greatest allies came to the same conclusion. And they aren't going after our military or similar, they nailed private oil tankers, a terrorist attack if you ask me. What type of response is necessary is above my pay grade, but I definitely don't think it should just be ignored.

And rather than comply and/or work with the international community, they seemingly want to expand instead.

I was actually unaware that they tried to take hostages. I believe that seeing them up close and personal pretty much proves it.

---

Israel Joins U.S., UK in Blaming Iran for Oil Tanker Attack

TEL AVIV – Israeli intelligence has joined the U.S.’s accusations that Iran carried out Thursday’s attacks on two oil tankers in the Gulf of Oman, an Israeli TV report claimed over the weekend, citing senior intelligence officials.

The Iranians used mines and a torpedo in the attack, the Channel 13 report said.

Limpet mines were spotted on one of the ships, leading the U.S. to conclude that Iran was behind the attack. The U.S. military released footage apparently showing Iran’s Revolutionary Guard removing one of the unexploded mines. A U.S. official also told CNN that Iranian forces in the Gulf of Oman spotted a U.S. drone hours before the attack and fired a surface-to-air missile at it.

According to the official, the missile missed the drone and fell into the water.

President Donald Trump on Friday called Iran “a nation of terror.” He said the attack had “Iran written all over it” and the Islamic Republic “did do it.”

“You know they did it because you saw the boat,” Trump said. “I guess one of the mines didn’t explode and it’s probably got essentially Iran written all over it.”

“You saw the boat at night, successfully trying to take the mine off — and that was exposed,” he said.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said on Thursday that the “unprovoked attacks present a clear threat to international peace and security, a blatant assault on the freedom of navigation and an unacceptable campaign of escalating tension by Iran.”

The UK also said it had concluded that Iran was responsible for the attacks.

“Our own assessment leads us to conclude that responsibility for the attacks almost certainly lies with Iran. These latest attacks build on a pattern of destabilizing Iranian behavior and pose a serious danger to the region,” British Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt said Friday.

Rest - https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/06/16/israel-joins-u-s-uk-in-blaming-iran-for-oil-tanker-attack/


Iran threatens to scale back nuclear deal compliance

June 15 (UPI) — Iranian President Hassan Rouhani warned the country will further scale back its compliance with the nuclear deal unless it receives “positive signals” from other signatories.

Rouhani told Russian, Chinese and other leaders at the Conference on Interaction and Confidence Building Measures in Asia that it would continue to scale back its compliance with commitments outlined in the nuclear deal unless “other countries contribute to the survival of this important agreement.”

Rouhani did not specifically state at the conference in Tajikistan what “positive signals” he is seeking from the other signatories on the deal, which include Britain, China, France, Germany, Russia and the European Union.

He also did not say what actions Iran would take, but the country’s government said in May that it would begin enriching uranium at a higher level than allowed by the agreement unless the other signatories on the deal took steps within 60 days to protect Iran’s economy from U.S. sanctions.

The United States withdrew from the nuclear agreement and tightened sanctions against Iran in May 2018.

Rouhani’s remarks came one day after Iran Foreign Ministry spokesman Abbas Mousavi denied responsibility for a pair of Thursday attacks on oil tankers in the Gulf of Oman.

Rest - https://www.breitbart.com/news/iran-threatens-to-scale-back-nuclear-deal-compliance/


Cotton: Iranian Actions in Persian Gulf Warrant a ‘Retaliatory Military Strike’

Sunday on CBS’ “Face the Nation,” Sen. Tom Cotton (R-AR) said the recent attacks on oil tankers in the Middle East by Iran “warrant a retaliatory military strike.”

Partial transcript as follows:


BRENNAN, HOST OF CBS’S “FACE THE NATION”: We turn now to Arkansas Republican Senator Tom Cotton. In addition to serving on the Intelligence and Armed Services committees, he has also written a new book called, “Sacred Duty: A Soldier’s Tour at Arlington National Cemetery.” Good morning and Happy Father’s Day, senator.

COTTON: Good morning, Margaret. Thanks for having me on.

BRENNAN: You have long been defined as a hawk on Iran. You see these recent attacks, these are commercial vessels not military installations. What kind of response is warranted?

COTTON: Well Iran for 40 years has engaged in this kind of attacks going back to the 1980s. In fact Ronald Reagan had to reflag a lot of vessels going through the Persian Gulf and ultimately take military action against Iran in 1988. These unprovoked attacks on commercial shipping warrant a retaliatory military strike.

BRENNAN: Are you- you’re comparing the tanker war in the 80s to now and saying that that’s the kind of military response you want to see?

COTTON: We can make a military wreck- response in a time and in a manner of our choosing. But yes, unprovoked attacks on commercial shipping warrant a retaliatory military strike against the Islamic Republic of Iran.

BRENNAN: A retaliatory strike? When we had Secretary Pompeo on just a few moments ago, he said the U.S. always has the authorization to defend American interests. As someone who sits in Congress, do you believe that he can act- the administration can act without coming to Congress first?

COTTON: Yes, Margaret. Going back to President Washington and all the way down to President Trump, the fastest way to get the fire and fury of the U.S. military unleashed on you is to interfere with the freedom of navigation on the open seas and in the air. That’s exactly what Iran is doing in one of the world’s most important strategic choke points. The president has the authorization to act to defend American interests. Certainly, he- it would be in keeping with what President Obama did unwisely in Libya in 2011 in launching a weeks long campaign to overthrow the government there. What I’m talking about is not like what we’ve seen in Iraq for the last 16 years or Afghanistan for the last 18 years. But retaliatory military strikes against Iran that make it clear we will not tolerate any kind of attacks on commercial shipping on the open seas.

BRENNAN: So you believe that the existing authorization for military force is sufficient? You’ve also said, though, and as someone who served in Iraq, you have an appreciation for the need to be careful in parsing intelligence and in first reports. How do you convince the American people that they need to stomach something, in terms of a potential strike, that you’re describing as somewhat easy to carry out, when there were such vast underestimations of what U.S. force would bring about in Iraq and elsewhere in the past?

COTTON: Margaret, those are two very different things. In 2002, our intelligence agencies, just like every Western intelligence agency, was trying to assess the state of a weapons of mass destruction program, one of the things that states worked the hardest to keep secret. There’s really not much to assess right here. Everybody can see with their own two eyes, those Iranian sailors going up to a ship and taking a mine off of it. Iranian sailors, ultimately boarded and height- and took hostage the crew of one of those ships that they just released yesterday. They tried to shoot down one of our surveillance aircrafts over the Persian Gulf as we were simply trying to monitor what had happened there.

As you heard Secretary Pompeo have said, they’ve increased their support on attacks on American troops by supporting a Taliban attack in Afghanistan, just like they killed five hundred Americans in the Iraq war. So there’s no doubt here what Iran is up to. They are struggling under the sanctions that we have placed on them. The status quo for them is unacceptable. They’re hoping that they can drive up the price of oil and therefore benefit from it, since their oil exports have declined so much. And also, get more pressure put on the United States to back off our campaign of maximum pressure. That’s not going to happen. If anything, we need to increase that pressure and I think this unprovoked attack on commercial shipping warrants retaliatory military strikes.

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2019/06/16/cotton-iranian-actions-in-persian-gulf-warrant-a-retaliatory-military-strike-against-iran/


U.S. intel says Iran tried to pick up crews from tankers attacked in Gulf of Oman

Shortly after the crews of the two tankers attacked this week in the Gulf of Oman evacuated their stricken vessels, the ships that rescued them were surrounded by Iranian military boats and told to transfer the mariners into their custody, according to declassified U.S. intelligence reports obtained on Friday by CBS News.

One of the civilian rescue ships eventually complied with the Iranian military's request. The other did not. The new details help to paint a picture of what happened Thursday in the Gulf, near the vital shipping channel of the Strait of Hormuz, through which about a third of the world's oil supply passes.

The U.S. has accused Iran of carrying out the attacks on the tankers — the second similar incident blamed on Iran in a month. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo called it "the latest in a series of attacks started by Iran and its surrogates against American and allied interests" aimed at "escalating tension."

Rest - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tanker-attack-iran-military-tried-pick-up-ships-crews-us-intelligence-2019-06-14/

[jimnyc]

I think they have been effective too, hence Iran acting out as they have. It would probably be more advantageous for them to work with the international community.

---

Scalise: US Sanctions Against Iran 'Very Effective'

House Minority Whip Rep. Steve Scalise, R-La., said Sunday he doesn’t want to see military action against Iran in the wake of attacks on two commercial ships that’ve been blamed on Tehran.

In an interview on NBC News’ “Meet The Press,” Scalise said a strong stance, however, must be maintained against the Islamic Republic.

“Our sanctions have been very effective,” he declared.

“We don’t want to see it escalate it to a military operation… We have to stand up to Iran,” he added.

Scalise also said he supports U.S. cybersecurity actions against Russia, saying the U.S. needs to do everything to prevent interference similar to 2016.

"I am glad the administration has been taking aggressive actions,” he said, referring to a New York Times report that the United States is escalating cyber attacks on Russia's electric power grid .

Rest - https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/scalise-iran-sanctions/2019/06/16/id/920583/


Foreign Minister Hunt: Britain 'Almost Certain' Iran Was Behind Tanker Attacks

Foreign minister Jeremy Hunt said on Sunday Britain is "almost certain" Iran was behind attacks on oil tankers in the Gulf of Oman, adding that London did not believe anyone else could have done it.

On Saturday, Iran summoned the British ambassador to Tehran after London blamed it for the attacks, the semi-official Students News Agency ISNA reported.

Asked whether Iran was behind the attacks on the tankers, Hunt told the BBC's Andrew Marr show: "We have done our own intelligence assessment and the phrase we used is almost certain ... We don't believe anyone else could have done this."

"We are urging all sides to de-escalate."

The Royal Navy plans to deploy 100 marines to the Persian Gulf to protect British ships after a series of attacks on vessels, the Telegraph newspaper reports.

Plans for the deployment began several weeks ago and a security committee is expected to meet this week to discuss the matter, the paper reported without revealing the source of the information.

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/britain-almost-certain-iran/2019/06/16/id/920558/

[STTAB]

Well... let's get it over with... WW... Civil War... the sooner the better. I think the world is begging for another "correction." I've been "prepping" for years. If all I ever have to do is defend what's mine and survive on my own property, I can do that for quite awhile. But if a bomb gets dropped on me, I'm gone, but I'll go down fighting.

Too many little shit heads that are alive today voting and have been brain washed don't know what a real war is like. They need a wake up call. The world is a hostile place. It's not a utopia and never will be. Mankind is incapable of everyone living together in some kind of fairy tale utopian peace. There's too many people on the planet and too many with nefarious ambitions that wield too much power. War is all we know. It's been that way since the dawn of time.

I never considered myself a prepper before but over the weekend my wife informed me that I am. I looked around at all the guns and ammo scattered over my 800 acres plus the multiple freezers of meat, and the stores of water and fuel and now I'm into canning my own fruits and vegetables. LOL maybe I am a prepper.

[darin]

Iran's benefactor? Russia. Days ago:

https://www.businessinsider.com/russias-story-on-near-collision-with-us-navy-cruiser-suspicious-2019-6


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCMPtTD3vYM

thanks for that vid.

I wish they had smarter commentators. Those who don't need to over-sensationalize. It's as if they are trying to convince the viewer of their opinion of the video.

[darin]

https://www.survivalrealty.com/



(https://www.survivalrealty.com/)Anyone wanna go halvsies ? :)

or -

https://www.survivalrealty.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/blackrifle-ad-1.jpg
http://blackriflerealestate.com/

[jimnyc]

Between intel pronouncements from other countries and now these photos in addition to the video, I have little doubt that Iran is responsible for these bombings.

---

Pentagon Claims More Photo Evidence Iran Is Behind Tanker Attacks

https://i.imgur.com/NQOQiqA.jpg

The Pentagon released new images late Monday night which officials said offered more evidence operatives from Iran’s Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) were responsible for last week’s attacks on oil tankers in the Gulf of Oman.

The U.S. military said the photos, taken from a Navy helicopter, showed Iranian forces removing an unexploded mine from the hull of the Japanese-owned Kokuka Courageous oil tanker.

https://i.imgur.com/FUd8wYR.jpg

Other photos showed a large hole on the side of the Courageous, above the waterline, that officials said appeared to have been caused by another mine.

The release of the photos came as the U.S. Government works this week to convince members of Congress and allies that the accusations against Tehran are true. Iran has accused America of promoting an “Iranophobic” campaign.

Tehran, however, has repeatedly threatened to close the vital Strait of Hormuz, through which 20 per cent of the world’s oil flows.

https://i.imgur.com/9ZvMq3w.jpg

“Iran is responsible for the attack, based on video evidence and the resources and proficiency needed to quickly remove the unexploded limpet mine,” the U.S. military’s Central Command said in a statement by way of background to the image selection.

The U.S. military has also accused the IRGC of trying but failing to shoot down a U.S. drone, to disrupt surveillance of the tankers during the attacks.

Rest - https://www.breitbart.com/middle-east/2019/06/18/declassified-images-back-u-s-claim-iran-is-behind-tanker-attacks/

[STTAB]

Just to play devil' advocate here. I don't FULLY trust what our intel agencies are telling the President either. One must ALWAYS remember,, they have their own agenda.

[Kathianne]

Another bell ringing:

https://abcnews.go.com/International/iran-shoots-american-drone-international-airspace-us-official/story?id=63825990


Iran says it's 'completely ready for war' after US military confirms it shot down American drone

By

LUIS MARTINEZ (https://abcnews.go.com/author/luis_martinez)



Jun 20, 2019, 7:43 AM ET


In a major provocation, Iran (https://abcnews.go.com/alerts/iran) shot down an unarmed and unmanned U.S. RQ-4A Global Hawk drone while it was flying in international airspace over the Strait of Hormuz Thursday, U.S. Central Command confirmed in a statement.

The incident is sure to trigger serious discussions within the Trump administration about how to respond to a direct attack on a U.S. military asset that goes beyond recent attacks (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/tankers-attacked-gulf-oman-us-ruling-iran-responsible/story?id=63685381) in the Middle East that the U.S. has blamed on Iran.

...

[Kathianne]

We're just all going to have to wait and see what this means:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1141711064305983488


Donald J. Trump (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump)
‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump)FollowFollow
@realDonaldTrump

More




Iran made a very big mistake!

7:15 AM - 20 Jun 2019

[Kathianne]

We're just all going to have to wait and see what this means:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1141711064305983488

What seemed to be a warning, now seems more like a very hopeful President. No problemos?

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/20/politics/trump-iran-drone-downing/index.html


Trump downplays Iran tensions after drone shot downhttps://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/140929103051-kevin-liptak-profile-image-small-11.jpg
(https://www.cnn.com/profiles/kevin-liptak-profile)https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/160314170913-nicole-gaouette-profile-small-11.jpg
(https://www.cnn.com/profiles/nicole-gaouette)By Kevin Liptak (https://www.cnn.com/profiles/kevin-liptak-profile) and Nicole Gaouette (https://www.cnn.com/profiles/nicole-gaouette), CNN


Updated 2:08 PM ET, Thu June 20, 2019

Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump downplayed the dramatic escalation in tensions (http://www.cnn.com/2019/06/20/politics/drone-shot-down-by-iran-airspace-dispute-explainer/index.html)with Iran Thursday, after the downing of a US drone (https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/20/middleeast/iran-drone-claim-hnk-intl/index.html) near the Persian Gulf sparked fears that tensions with Tehran could spill over into confrontation.

Calling the shootdown "a new wrinkle, a new fly in the ointment," Trump told reporters in the Oval Office he finds it "hard to believe it was intentional."
Earlier in the day, Trump had tweeted that "Iran made a very big mistake!" as he and his national security officials huddled (http://www.cnn.com/2019/06/20/politics/us-iran-drone-shooting-risk/index.html) to weigh possible responses. Some lawmakers called for restraint and others warned Iran should prepare for "severe pain."
Trump's ominous -- if vague -- tweet came after Iran's Revolutionary Guard said it had shot down an "intruding American spy drone" after it entered into the country's territory Thursday. Trump told reporters later Thursday morning that the drone had been over international waters. Asked if the US would respond or go to war, Trump said, "you'll find out."








'Hard to believe'
But he also appeared to want to lower the temperature.
"Probably Iran made a mistake. I would imagine it was a general or somebody who made a mistake in shooting that drone down," Trump said during an exchange with CNN's Kaitlan Collins.
"I find it hard to believe it was intentional. I think it could've been somebody that was loose and stupid," Trump said, noting that the drone was unarmed and had no pilot. "It was a very foolish move, that I can tell you."

Trump assured that the situation is "all going to work out." And with the 2020 elections looming, he picked up a refrain from his first campaign, telling reporters: "I want to get out of these endless wars, I campaign on that."

...

I'm all for avoiding needless wars, but this seems to require a fast response that hurts. Doesn't have to be bombs, but shouldn't be shrugged off as some private is able to knock out one of our drones. They also tried to knock out one that caught what they were doing with those mines above the waterline last week.

[STTAB]

What seemed to be a warning, now seems more like a very hopeful President. No problemos?

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/20/politics/trump-iran-drone-downing/index.html



I'm all for avoiding needless wars, but this seems to require a fast response that hurts. Doesn't have to be bombs, but shouldn't be shrugged off as some private is able to knock out one of our drones. They also tried to knock out one that caught what they were doing with those mines above the waterline last week.



I'd take their entire Navy out, but thats just me.

[Kathianne]

I'd take their entire Navy out, but thats just me.

Not sure that would be a measured response, but neither does that second response.

[STTAB]

Not sure that would be a measured response, but neither does that second response.

I've never purported to believe in measured responses Kath LOL

[Kathianne]

I've never purported to believe in measured responses Kath LOL

I do, unless US lives are lost or seriously threatened. An unmanned drone deserves a response, but not killing a navy.

[Kathianne]

I found this very interesting, CSM thoughts?

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/middle-east-watch/iran-close-collapse-three-things-you-need-know-about-us-iran-showdown-63442


Is Iran Close to Collapse? Three Things You Need To Know about the U.S.-Iran Showdown.Washington must hold its red lines while not giving in to Tehran's wishes or escalating into a shooting conflict.
by Michael Rubin (https://nationalinterest.org/profile/michael-rubin)

Iran and the United States are as close to direct conflict as they have been for three decades, since Operation Praying Mantis (https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/1989/may/surface-view-operation-praying-mantis) in 1988 which was, at the time, the largest surface naval engagement since World War II.

...

[jimnyc]

Similar here... Maybe with all of this in mind, the response will be more but devastating sanctions?

---

U.S. Holds All the Cards in Showdown with Iran

In May 2018, the Donald Trump administration withdrew the United States from the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action with Iran, popularly known as the Iran nuclear deal.

The U.S. then ramped up sanctions on the Iranian theocracy to try to ensure that it stopped nuclear enrichment. The Trump administration also hoped a strapped Iran would become less capable of funding terrorist operations in the Middle East and beyond, proxy wars in the Persian Gulf, and the opportune harassment of ships transiting the Strait of Hormuz.

The sanctions are clearly destroying an already weak Iranian economy. Iran is now suffering from negative economic growth, massive unemployment and record inflation.

A desperate Iranian government is using surrogates to send missiles into Saudi Arabia while its forces attack ships in the Gulf of Oman.

The Iranian theocrats despise the Trump administration. They yearn for the good old days of the Obama administration, when the U.S. agreed to a nuclear deal that all but guaranteed future Iranian nuclear proliferation, ignored Iranian terrorism and sent hundreds of millions of dollars in shakedown payments to the Iranian regime.

Iran believed that the Obama administration saw it as a valuable Shiite counterweight to Israel and the traditionally American-allied Sunni monarchies in the Gulf region. Teheran assumes that an even more left-wing American administration would also endorse Iran-friendly policies, and so it is fishing for ways to see that happen in 2020 with a Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren or Joe Biden presidency.

Desperate Iranian officials have already met secretly with former Secretary of State John Kerry and openly with Sen. Diane Feinstein, likely to commiserate over Trump's cancellation of the nuclear deal and to find ways to revive the Obama-era agreement after Trump leaves office.

Rest - https://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/u-s-holds-all-the-cards-in-showdown-with-iran/

[Kathianne]

Similar here... Maybe with all of this in mind, the response will be more but devastating sanctions?

---

U.S. Holds All the Cards in Showdown with Iran

In May 2018, the Donald Trump administration withdrew the United States from the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action with Iran, popularly known as the Iran nuclear deal.

The U.S. then ramped up sanctions on the Iranian theocracy to try to ensure that it stopped nuclear enrichment. The Trump administration also hoped a strapped Iran would become less capable of funding terrorist operations in the Middle East and beyond, proxy wars in the Persian Gulf, and the opportune harassment of ships transiting the Strait of Hormuz.

The sanctions are clearly destroying an already weak Iranian economy. Iran is now suffering from negative economic growth, massive unemployment and record inflation.

A desperate Iranian government is using surrogates to send missiles into Saudi Arabia while its forces attack ships in the Gulf of Oman.

The Iranian theocrats despise the Trump administration. They yearn for the good old days of the Obama administration, when the U.S. agreed to a nuclear deal that all but guaranteed future Iranian nuclear proliferation, ignored Iranian terrorism and sent hundreds of millions of dollars in shakedown payments to the Iranian regime.

Iran believed that the Obama administration saw it as a valuable Shiite counterweight to Israel and the traditionally American-allied Sunni monarchies in the Gulf region. Teheran assumes that an even more left-wing American administration would also endorse Iran-friendly policies, and so it is fishing for ways to see that happen in 2020 with a Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren or Joe Biden presidency.

Desperate Iranian officials have already met secretly with former Secretary of State John Kerry and openly with Sen. Diane Feinstein, likely to commiserate over Trump's cancellation of the nuclear deal and to find ways to revive the Obama-era agreement after Trump leaves office.

Rest - https://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/u-s-holds-all-the-cards-in-showdown-with-iran/

I think without a doubt the internal problems are boiling hot and fast. One thing though, nationalism is intense-I think it's part of the 2nd condition in that article i posted. If the ayatollahs can sic the nationalists on US 'dangers' they can gain control again, at least for a time.

[Gunny]

I think without a doubt the internal problems are boiling hot and fast. One thing though, nationalism is intense-I think it's part of the 2nd condition in that article i posted. If the ayatollahs can sic the nationalists on US 'dangers' they can gain control again, at least for a time.Iranians hate Americans more than they hate each other. We are everything that ever went wrong in their lives and they are taught that from birth.

[Kathianne]

Iranians hate Americans more than they hate each other. We are everything that ever went wrong in their lives and they are taught that from birth.

Nationalism. War can play with that.

[Gunny]

Nationalism. War can play with that.They are uber-nationalists since way before the US was even bumped into by vikings and before any ayatollah's. A quick "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" deal isn't going to change that. EVEN IF we somehow miraculously aided and abetted a coup, they'd turn on us before the smoke cleared.

I am by no means for letting Iran off the hook. I just don't want to see all these dumbass politicians making deals with Satan's son to kill Satan. I say we take out the regime on our own, then leave with the warning: get your shit straight or we'll be back to blow you up again as many times as it takes. Of course, when has this country EVER held to a committment like that?

Iran has also been cozying up to Russia, lest anyone forget. So has Erdogan in Turkey. Those countries border each other from the Baltic to the Indian Ocean. Just sayin'

[Kathianne]

They are uber-nationalists since way before the US was even bumped into by vikings and before any ayatollah's. A quick "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" deal isn't going to change that. EVEN IF we somehow miraculously aided and abetted a coup, they'd turn on us before the smoke cleared.

I am by no means for letting Iran off the hook. I just don't want to see all these dumbass politicians making deals with Satan's son to kill Satan. I say we take out the regime on our own, then leave with the warning: get your shit straight or we'll be back to blow you up again as many times as it takes. Of course, when has this country EVER held to a committment like that?

Iran has also been cozying up to Russia, lest anyone forget. So has Erdogan in Turkey. Those countries border each other from the Baltic to the Indian Ocean. Just sayin'


That's been my take from the get go. Russia's proxie. Russia too has been 'challenging' in the air around Alaska and on the seas. Not exploding mines or shooting, but still provocative.

[icansayit]

Let's find out what the Men, and Women who are aboard all of those U.S. Ships are thinking, and praying for before we all go off HALF COCKED.

Speaking from experience. NOBODY, and I do mean...NOBODY wants a war. War destroys things, kills people, and really...NEVER ENDS.


https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/14/feb/endwar.jpg

We have been in Afghanistan for 19 years. Why would we want to repeat that with a crazy, unhinged nation like IRAN, who, if you recall...also made Russia turn around, and go home.

Crazy people in this World Love War. Let them fight each other, and destroy their sicknesses face to face.

[Kathianne]

Let's find out what the Men, and Women who are aboard all of those U.S. Ships are thinking, and praying for before we all go off HALF COCKED.

Speaking from experience. NOBODY, and I do mean...NOBODY wants a war. War destroys things, kills people, and really...NEVER ENDS.


https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/14/feb/endwar.jpg

We have been in Afghanistan for 19 years. Why would we want to repeat that with a crazy, unhinged nation like IRAN, who, if you recall...also made Russia turn around, and go home.

Crazy people in this World Love War. Let them fight each other, and destroy their sicknesses face to face.

If you read the thread, I don't think you'll find anyone calling for war.

[Gunny]

That's been my take from the get go. Russia's proxie. Russia too has been 'challenging' in the air around Alaska and on the seas. Not exploding mines or shooting, but still provocative.Russia wants to tip the balance of power in the ME. The crap Erdogan has given us is from Putin sweet-talking him. Turey thinks it no longer has use for us. That's how Turks are.

Russia already a monopoly on European oil. Imagine him getting a land pipeline from Iran to Moscow. If that falls in line I doubt it would take a lot of convincing the pro-Shia gov't in Iraq to get on board and they have a land pipeline from Iran to Syria. And I'm not making this up. It's in one of the threads in the ME forum.

He could economically strangle Europe. Something the USSR was unable to do.

[Gunny]

Let's find out what the Men, and Women who are aboard all of those U.S. Ships are thinking, and praying for before we all go off HALF COCKED.

Speaking from experience. NOBODY, and I do mean...NOBODY wants a war. War destroys things, kills people, and really...NEVER ENDS.


https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/14/feb/endwar.jpg

We have been in Afghanistan for 19 years. Why would we want to repeat that with a crazy, unhinged nation like IRAN, who, if you recall...also made Russia turn around, and go home.

Crazy people in this World Love War. Let them fight each other, and destroy their sicknesses face to face.I am certainly not "for war". During my day I was the one getting shot at.

Same coin different side: if it's time to saddle up and do what Uncle Sugar's paying you for, you get it done.

I don't think a land war is an option. Not for us. We can't occupy Iran. We just don't have the people. I can see a proxie US/Russia war with Iran and Saudi Arabia as stooges.

On another note, I've long thought the US should clear the Gulf of Iran.

[Elessar]

In my minds eye, it is a shame our Battleships are all displays.

They were a huge deterrent in 4 wars. The sight of those 16 inch guns struck fear
into opponents.

[CSM]

I found this very interesting, CSM thoughts?

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/middle-east-watch/iran-close-collapse-three-things-you-need-know-about-us-iran-showdown-63442

Interesting article.

As has been stated, I don't believe anyone wants a war with Iran. There is no doubt, however, that Iran is a major component of the complex Middle East situation. Gunny has summed up a lot of my feelings about it. I will say that the article (intentionally or not) does not mention Russia or China, both of whom have intense interest in propping up Iran. Iran may be economically vulnerable right now but make no mistake, there are many Middle Eastern countries that are inextricably tied to Iran as well. One thing is certain...Iran MUST NOT be allowed to develop, deploy or, heaven forbid), use nuclear warheads of ANY type. We know full well that they have chemical and biological weapons. I have no doubt they would use them if pressed.

IF it does come to war, I am of the same mind as Gunny... level the place with stand off weapons (no nukes!) and warn them if they don't straighten up we will level whatever rubble is left. No way would I send in ground troops or try to instill "democracy" in that "shithole".....

[CSM]

In my minds eye, it is a shame our Battleships are all displays.

They were a huge deterrent in 4 wars. The sight of those 16 inch guns struck fear
into opponents.

Gun boat diplomacy does have it's place. Unfortunately, those old battleships are cannon fodder for current technology. I would love to see a modern version of a real battleship that can deal with the current technological threats and dish out a wholesome heap of naval gunfire a la 16" HE/AP. That kind of thing makes some big smoking holes in the terrain. With modern fire control and fire direction systems, the accuracy and lethality would be some real "Shock and Awe" that any receiving population would "appreciate".

[Elessar]

Gun boat diplomacy does have it's place. Unfortunately, those old battleships are cannon fodder for current technology. I would love to see a modern version of a real battleship that can deal with the current technological threats and dish out a wholesome heap of naval gunfire a la 16" HE/AP. That kind of thing makes some big smoking holes in the terrain. With modern fire control and fire direction systems, the accuracy and lethality would be some real "Shock and Awe" that any receiving population would "appreciate".

I totally agree with your viewpoint. A modern platform with those huge deck guns would make
just about anyone think twice about screwing around.

[STTAB]

In my minds eye, it is a shame our Battleships are all displays.

They were a huge deterrent in 4 wars. The sight of those 16 inch guns struck fear
into opponents.

That only works if the "enemy" believes she may fire shots in anger. I mean a US Naval Carrier Wing pulling into within 200 miles of your shoreline is a lot of firepower and no sane person would risk unleashing it if they thought there were a chance of that happening . Unfortunately , the people running Iran either don't believe we'll use our firepower against them, or worse are insane and don't care if we do.