would you support Britain using Force to leave the EU?

[darin]

Was just thinking - if Britain's armed forces did whatever that could be done, including armed resistance to the EU, would you support it?

[CSM]

Was just thinking - if Britain's armed forces did whatever that could be done, including armed resistance to the EU, would you support it?

Hmmm...shades of 1776....

[Gunny]

Was just thinking - if Britain's armed forces did whatever that could be done, including armed resistance to the EU, would you support it?If I was British you bet. Or a Scot, since that's where my lineage runs.

We won't discuss my sentiments toward the US government at the moment :)

[Noir]

No.

[Drummond]

Was just thinking - if Britain's armed forces did whatever that could be done, including armed resistance to the EU, would you support it?

Let me promise you, such thinking is light years away from anything being thought by the 'typical' British citizen. I'm sure there'd be near-universal consensus agreeing that such an option was unacceptably extremist.

Whether UK citizens would be thinking the same thing, if - say - Mrs May's Brexit 'deal' had been voted through, then implementation of the 'backstop' really did tie us into the EU indefinitely ... I think it'd concentrate minds enough to make them wonder if armed resistance was all they had left to them, in order to win their freedom.

There's this to consider: Britain's armed forces are ruled by our Government, just as yours are, by your Government. In a situation such as ours, now, our Government is tied into EU membership, and cannot legitimately resist it. In a situation where we'd remained legally bound to the EU courtesy of Mrs May's ratified deal, even if only through a technicality such as the enacted backstop, STILL, our Government would be acting illegally if it resisted its constraint.

If these things didn't matter, why did we waste time seeking a 'divorce deal' ? Why even bother invoking Article 50 ? Why didn't we just say ... 'As of X date, we're walking out on you, tough if you don't like it' .. ?

No. We're bound by treaties and international law.

This all means one thing. British forces resisting the EU could only do that in defiance of their masters, because they'd have to. Doing so could only mean a military coup had happened.

I don't think anyone wants that ... even despite whatever frustrations might at first sight make that seem preferable ....

Besides, it's entirely unnecessary. The legal, entirely legitimate, position is that we DO cease to be members of the EU by the end of October, if we've found no political alternative to the 'no deal' scenario. JUST SITTING BACK AND DOING NOTHING WILL DO THE JOB FOR US.

[Drummond]

If I was British you bet. Or a Scot, since that's where my lineage runs.

We won't discuss my sentiments toward the US government at the moment :)

Your ancestral roots lie in Scotland, Gunny ?

Well ... if you claim identification with Scotland, you'd - today - be identifying with a country that's overwhelmingly supportive of the SNP, which is a Scottish Nationalist party ... AND Left wing !!

The SNP has two overriding aims .. one, to obtain independence from the rest of the UK. Two, having obtained it, they'd fight tooth and nail to REapply for EU membership !!

There is support for Brexit ... and we had proof of that from last week's EU election, where ONE MEP from the Brexit Party was voted through. Even so ... pro-EU sentiment is especially strong in Scotland, more so than anywhere else in the UK. Gunny, if you were a Scottish resident right now, your viewpoint would be a minority one.

https://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/trendingacrossscotland/17666386.scottish-european-election-results-2019-how-your-local-authority-voted/

12082

[In case you don't know, Gunny, this is a pic of Nicola Sturgeon, the leader of the SNP, the governing Party in Scotland, who's passionately and proudly pro-European ...]

https://www.scotsman.com/news-2-15012/nicola-sturgeon-hailed-as-dedicated-pro-european-in-berlin-1-4198631


Germany’s Europe Minister has hailed Nicola Sturgeon as a “dedicated pro-European” following Brexit talks in Berlin.

[Drummond]

No.

No surprise there, Noir !:rolleyes:

[Noir]

No surprise there, Noir !:rolleyes:

The answer may not be surprising, but at least it was an answer to the question asked. Having read your (much longer) post it is unclear to me if you would support armed resistance to the EU or not.

[darin]

No. We're bound by treaties and international law.



Those are choices. I contend in the face of a government avoiding / neglecting its responsibility to the People is worthy of some amount of revolution. If the EU tries to hold-hostage the will of the people of Britain, it's the duty of Britons to resist.

[Drummond]

The answer may not be surprising, but at least it was an answer to the question asked. Having read your (much longer) post it is unclear to me if you would support armed resistance to the EU or not.

Your (implied) question surprises me. You know the British character, as, obviously, I would, too. You surely have to know how far removed 'armed resistance to the EU' is from its probability.

What reason do you have for thinking that the British Army has the smallest likelihood of staging a military coup ??

And if not from the Army ... who else is well-armed enough (or could deploy such a capability) against anybody in the EU for it to count for anything ? Who, exactly, would these impromptu militias target, anyway ?

[Drummond]

Those are choices. I contend in the face of a government avoiding / neglecting its responsibility to the People is worthy of some amount of revolution. If the EU tries to hold-hostage the will of the people of Britain, it's the duty of Britons to resist.

I disagree. Flouting international law isn't a choice, unless the country responsible wants to become, at minimum, an international pariah.

Let's say the UK went down that route. OK ... we, as a 'standalone' Nation, would need to seek out trading relationships with many other nations in the world. Tell me, how many of those nations would place any trust in deals we tried to do with them, if we showed ourselves willing to renege on laws and treaties, just as we felt like doing ??

No. If we fail to have a reputable standing on the world stage, we might as well commit suicide as a viable national entity.

Besides, as I've said previously, all this is unnecessary. A default deadline of the end of October this year for our mandatory exit from the EU is already in place. There WAS one before then, too, for the end of March. The only reason it was extended to October is because we asked for an extension.

All we have to do, to leave by default, is sit back and do precisely ... NOTHING. It'll be our lack of doing nothing that stands a chance of mucking that up.

[Noir]

Your (implied) question surprises me. You know the British character, as, obviously, I would, too. You surely have to know how far removed 'armed resistance to the EU' is from its probability.

What reason do you have for thinking that the British Army has the smallest likelihood of staging a military coup ??

And if not from the Army ... who else is well-armed enough (or could deploy such a capability) against anybody in the EU for it to count for anything ? Who, exactly, would these impromptu militias target, anyway ?

A lot more typing, yet still no closer to a definitive answer - Are you prepared to give a simple “yes/no” to the threads title question, or would you rather not?

[darin]

I think I would probably try to move and help the UK if they needed to fight to free themselves over the fascist EU.

[pete311]

uh, the EU is not holding Britain hostage. If they get their own shit in order they can leave, but guess what, they can't.

[Gunny]

uh, the EU is not holding Britain hostage. If they get their own shit in order they can leave, but guess what, they can't.Neither is the US that you lefties hate so much holding any of you hostage. Get your shit in order.

I have ZERO problem running all of you out by force.

And yeah, Great Britain can leave the EU if they want. Just got to sew some balls on all those PC, leftwingnut Brits that permeate Parliament.

Read a history book. Oh, I forgot. You lefties are too stupid to learn from history. Thus, the destruction of every civilization on the planet so far that precede current, going down the shitter due to leftwingnut policies civilizations.

[Drummond]

A lot more typing, yet still no closer to a definitive answer - Are you prepared to give a simple “yes/no” to the threads title question, or would you rather not?

I think you're trying to trade on what you hope is American lack of familiarity of the British way of thinking, or for that matter, the full situation the UK is in.

Or could it be that you are not from where you say you're from, and in fact you are ignorant of certain nuances you SHOULDN'T be ?

So ... YOU answer this, then .. and in terms of what, exactly, Brits could or would do to 'fight'.

Am I correct, for example, about the extreme lack of likelihood (putting it mildly) of seeing our military stage a coup ?

Am I, or am I not, correct in saying that few Brits own a firearm ? How, exactly, would they 'fight' .. ? With what ?

Do you perhaps see signs that the British public is at all likely to do a 'Guy Fawkes', and blow up Parliament ??

If you truly are British, you'll concede why I post as I do. If not ... you're invited to offer your own vision of how the British can, and will, 'fight' ... beyond making it very obvious to politicians what they think of them, as indeed they have !

If you were me, what answers do you think I could offer ?

[Noir]

I think you're trying to trade on what you hope is American lack of familiarity of the British way of thinking, or for that matter, the full situation the UK is in.

Or could it be that you are not from where you say you're from, and in fact you are ignorant of certain nuances you SHOULDN'T be ?

So ... YOU answer this, then .. and in terms of what, exactly, Brits could or would do to 'fight'.

Am I correct, for example, about the extreme lack of likelihood (putting it mildly) of seeing our military stage a coup ?

Am I, or am I not, correct in saying that few Brits own a firearm ? How, exactly, would they 'fight' .. ? With what ?

Do you perhaps see signs that the British public is at all likely to do a 'Guy Fawkes', and blow up Parliament ??

If you truly are British, you'll concede why I post as I do. If not ... you're invited to offer your own vision of how the British can, and will, 'fight' ... beyond making it very obvious to politicians what they think of them, as indeed they have !

If you were me, what answers do you think I could offer ?

No surprise there, Drummond !:rolleyes:

[Drummond]

Neither is the US that you lefties hate so much holding any of you hostage. Get your shit in order.

I have ZERO problem running all of you out by force.

And yeah, Great Britain can leave the EU if they want. Just got to sew some balls on all those PC, leftwingnut Brits that permeate Parliament.

Read a history book. Oh, I forgot. You lefties are too stupid to learn from history. Thus, the destruction of every civilization on the planet so far that precede current, going down the shitter due to leftwingnut policies civilizations.

More precisely, the UK can ... and, will, if we just sit back, twiddle our thumbs, and wait for the October deadline to come and go. The EU has itself set the stage for that to happen.

However ... the 'Remainers' have moved Heaven and earth to press the panic button over doing so, predicting dire times ahead if we don't strike a deal. It's thanks in no small measure to the success of their propaganda that such dysfunctionality pervades every aspect of Brexit.

[Drummond]

No surprise there, Drummond !:rolleyes:

I note your total cop-out of an 'answer'.

It's the truth, isn't it, that you're asking me for a definitive response ... when you yourself haven't the smallest clue as to what it could be.

ARE you from Northern Ireland, Noir .. ?

[Drummond]

uh, the EU is not holding Britain hostage. If they get their own shit in order they can leave, but guess what, they can't.

Seriously ?

The EU spent two years of 'negotiations' just rejecting every proposal the UK offered ... we were continually told why our proposals 'couldn't' be accommodated. Then ... they rushed through their preferred 'deal', incorporating a 'backstop' provision which our own legal experts repeatedly concluded allowed the EU an open-ended facility to keep us tied into the EU.

Since then, the EU has refused to change anything in their 'deal' ... despite our pleas that they reconsider. They refuse to entertain any alternative 'deal'. They reiterated that entrenched position yet again, within the past 24 hours. They want, and hope, that we'll end up so desperate to avoid a 'no deal' scenario that we'll capitulate and cave in, agreeing to their 'deal'.

The EU has zero reason to think our level of rejection of the deal 'on offer' will fade. Still, though, they persist.

Why IS that, according to you, Pete, h'mm .. ? Why such immovability, such utter intransigence, from the EU ? How do YOU explain it ?

[Gunny]

Seriously ?

The EU spent two years of 'negotiations' just rejecting every proposal the UK offered ... we were continually told why our proposals 'couldn't' be accommodated. Then ... they rushed through their preferred 'deal', incorporating a 'backstop' provision which our own legal experts repeatedly concluded allowed the EU an open-ended facility to keep us tied into the EU.

Since then, the EU has refused to change anything in their 'deal' ... despite our pleas that they reconsider. They refuse to entertain any alternative 'deal'. They reiterated that entrenched position yet again, within the past 24 hours. They want, and hope, that we'll end up so desperate to avoid a 'no deal' scenario that we'll capitulate and cave in, agreeing to their 'deal'.

The EU has zero reason to think our level of rejection of the deal 'on offer' will fade. Still, though, they persist.

Why IS that, according to you, Pete, h'mm .. ? Why such immovability, such utter intransigence, from the EU ? How do YOU explain it ?Aside from the fact Pete's avatar should be a left turn signal, the OP suggests Pete fight for something. Probably peed his pants.

Pete thinks he's entitled to all these Rights and privileges someone else had to bleed to earn.