End of Days

[typomaniac]

What is your opinion about some sort of divine end to the world?

[darin]

regardless of my opinion 'when' - it will absolutely happen.

[hjmick]

What is your opinion about some sort of divine end to the world?

"Divine end to the world?" The world will, in all likelihood end one day, but I do not believe in any sort of "divine" factor will be involved.

[Guernicaa]

The "end days" are going to be when a natural disaster ruins the planet. That could be an asteroid, or the eventual engulfing of our planet by the sun.

Do I think the end days is going to be when Jesus swoops down and puts all the "non believers" in hell and takes all the "believers" with him to heaven?
Nope.

[Abbey Marie]

The only choice I could vote for is one that says we cannot "know the hour". That is the biblical choice.

[avatar4321]

we are in the end days right now. how long is it going to last? who knows. But Christ is coming soon. I just wish soon for men was the same as for God.

[nevadamedic]

we are in the end days right now. how long is it going to last? who knows. But Christ is coming soon. I just wish soon for men was the same as for God.

That's just nuts..............

[-Cp]

That's just nuts..............

Why don't you enlighten us as to why you think it's nuts rather than just taking a pot-shot?

[typomaniac]

we are in the end days right now. how long is it going to last? who knows. But Christ is coming soon. I just wish soon for men was the same as for God.

Reminds me of this exchange:

Worshipper: O God, what is a billion dollars to you?
God: A mere penny.
Worshipper: O God, what is a billion years to you?
God: A minute.
Worshipper: O God, please can you spare me a mere penny?
God: Sure, I'll give it to you in a minute.

[darin]

Reminds me of this exchange:

Worshipper: O God, what is a billion dollars to you?
God: A mere penny.
Worshipper: O God, what is a billion years to you?
God: A minute.
Worshipper: O God, please can you spare me a mere penny?
God: Sure, I'll give it to you in a minute.

lol :)

Your sig is funny, Typo - not just because it violates the Font-size rule for sigs - but because I thought you are more Democratic-leaning. Most Dem. Policies HURT the poor. :-/

[GW in Ohio]

we are in the end days right now. how long is it going to last? who knows. But Christ is coming soon. I just wish soon for men was the same as for God.

Yes, I knew the end days were upon us when the Red Sox won the Series two years ago.

Now, when the Cubs win the Series, just look over your shoulder, and there'll be ol' Jesus, comin' for to carry you home........

To de Beulah Land.

[PostmodernProphet]

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
And even as I looked, behold, a fat lady came forth and sang.........

[Hagbard Celine]

The "end days" are going to be when a natural disaster ruins the planet. That could be an asteroid, or the eventual engulfing of our planet by the sun.

Do I think the end days is going to be when Jesus swoops down and puts all the "non believers" in hell and takes all the "believers" with him to heaven?
Nope.

Actually, that's not how it'll happen. First, the moon will turn blood red. The planet's weather will be incredibly turbulent and there will be chaos and anarchy because all believers will be "raptured," instantly disappearing and being transported to heaven by God when the great trumpet is sounded. The chaos resulting from the millions of sudden disappearances worldwide will border on anarchy, but just before the world tumbles out of control, a man with a plan will come to the forefront. He will meet with all the world leaders and unite them miraculously under one, world government. His reign will be known as the tribulation and it will last for seven years. All those left on Earth following the rapture will be forced to endure kill squads, rampant human rights abuses, starvation, etc, unless of course, they agree to become part of the beast. If they agree to take the mark--theorized to be a barcode or a microchip under their skin--they will get to live under the oppressive regime. Most people will take the mark because it will be impossible to buy anything or do anything that requires money without it. But there will be a minority who don't take the mark. They, the rebels, will keep to the hills and live off the land, off the grid until after seven years, they will have amassed enough of a military force to fight back against the antichrist's armies. That is if they survived when 2/3 of the Earth was swallowed in fire by the antichrist's nuclear holocaust. When the seven years are up, the forces of darkness will line up against the forces of light in the final battle for Earth: Armageddon. The forces of light, backed by an army of angels will win the battle and heaven will descend upon the Earth. The end.

[darin]

Hagbard, you are SUCH a sardonic, mocking bitch to people of faith. It does NOT make you cooler nor more-popular. WTF, over?

[PostmodernProphet]

Actually, that's not how it'll happen.

you guys do realize that apocalyptic literature was the 1st centuries equivalent of Gulliver's Travels and Saturday Night Live, right?

[Hagbard Celine]

Hagbard, you are SUCH a sardonic, mocking bitch to people of faith. It does NOT make you cooler nor more-popular. WTF, over?

10-4. Oh sorry. Over.

[JohnDoe]

I believe that we could be in the End Times but not the End of the Earth.

It is suppose to be the end of time as we know it....not the end of the world until another thousand years passes...(after the end of time as we know it....) people will live in Harmony with Christ for a thousand years before the Dragon (Satan) is released again on to us and before the Dragon is thrown in to the Lake of fire.

I do NOT believe it will be a natural disaster as someone has said..... it will be a man made disaster...armegeddon....but we have a promise that He will not let these conditions go forward...He stops the chaos after 3.5 years....

I am uncertain that we will be "raptured" before Armageddon....I don't think I believe that there will be a pretribulation rapture for all Christians....but I could be convinced of otherwise, perhaps, through scripture....so far though, I haven't found anything that points to the Rapture being BEFORE the tribulation IN the Bible.

But a friend of Israel's will have to betray her first, the temple will have to be rebuilt, the two witnesses have to accomplish what they have come to do and be risen in the public square after their deaths....

There is so much of the End of Times prophesy, that has not taken place yet...

And as someone has said, even Jesus said He did not know the HOUR that this will take place.... he did tell us that we would know when we are in the End of Time....but we would not know when Christ's return would take place.....

jd

[typomaniac]

lol :)

Your sig is funny, Typo - not just because it violates the Font-size rule for sigs - but because I thought you are more Democratic-leaning. Most Dem. Policies HURT the poor. :-/

I'm for social liberalism (mostly), so I don't really care which party works toward it.

[bullypulpit]

What is your opinion about some sort of divine end to the world?

If you go back to the Old Testament and review the events surrounding the sacking of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar and then to the return of the Israelite exiles some 70 years later after Cyrus conquered Babylon, and you will find a pattern of destruction/exile/redemption similar to that found in Revelations.

It is well documented that Old Testament writers rewrote and revised older scripture to appeal to the faithful of the day and make it more relevant to their situations. It would not be any stretch at all to think that the writers of the New Testament would do the same thing with elements of the Old Testament. These apocalyptic warnings are always revived in times of turmoil, strife and or seemingly threatening social change to encourage the faithful and bring new followers into the fold.

And, of course, there are those who use these apocalyptic scriptures to build their own cults of personality and preach their own ego driven version of the message, glossing over or ignoring those aspects which fail to comport with that ego driven vision.

[Guernicaa]

Like honestly, do you guys really think that if there is a Jesus hes gonna be mean enough to put everyone in "hell" for all of eternity?

If Jesus loves everyone now, I think he'll love everyone then.

I don't think he's going to do that if he comes down on the end days.
Just ask Tammy Faye..."were all just the same mud!"

[PostmodernProphet]

It is well documented that Old Testament writers rewrote and revised older scripture to appeal to the faithful of the day and make it more relevant to their situations.

lol, by anyone credible?

[bullypulpit]

lol, by anyone credible?

Karen Armstrong in her book:

<center><img src=http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51EB4eG%2BiCL._AA240_.jpg></center>

A well researched account of the beginnings of the world's great religious traditions. Now, unless you've got something besides sneering condescension to add to the conversation...Dismissed.

[darin]

Like honestly, do you guys really think that if there is a Jesus hes gonna be mean enough to put everyone in "hell" for all of eternity?

If Jesus loves everyone now, I think he'll love everyone then.

I don't think he's going to do that if he comes down on the end days.
Just ask Tammy Faye..."were all just the same mud!"



That's a fallacy - you're creating a false delimma. Jesus' love for people has nothing to do with people deciding to spend eternity in hell.

[JohnDoe]

Like honestly, do you guys really think that if there is a Jesus hes gonna be mean enough to put everyone in "hell" for all of eternity?

If Jesus loves everyone now, I think he'll love everyone then.

I don't think he's going to do that if he comes down on the end days.
Just ask Tammy Faye..."were all just the same mud!"Of course, the liberal that I am and a complete believer and follower of Christ....I believe that He will have Mercy on us....

Lamb of God,
Who takes away the sins of the world,
Have Mercy on us.

jd

[darin]

Of course, the liberal that I am and a complete believer and follower of Christ....I believe that He will have Mercy on us....

Lamb of God,
Who takes away the sins of the world,
Have Mercy on us.

jd


Side note - HOW can you be a liberal an a Christian? that's SOO weird.

You speak of Christ's mercy in future-tense. That's not exactly right. Christ HAS and HAD Mercy upon us by becoming the atonement for OUR sins. His mercy upon mankind has already happened; we just have to believe it.

[typomaniac]

Side note - HOW can you be a liberal an a Christian? that's SOO weird.

Very few people were or are more liberal than Jesus was. (Of course, he was a Jew.)

[avatar4321]

Like honestly, do you guys really think that if there is a Jesus hes gonna be mean enough to put everyone in "hell" for all of eternity?

If Jesus loves everyone now, I think he'll love everyone then.

I don't think he's going to do that if he comes down on the end days.
Just ask Tammy Faye..."were all just the same mud!"

Maybe you just dont understand the purpose of hell very well. Nor the nature of Eternal punishment.

[PostmodernProphet]

Now, unless you've got something besides sneering condescension to add to the conversation...Dismissed.


I will contribute that if she truely said "that Old Testament writers rewrote and revised older scripture to appeal to the faithful of the day and make it more relevant to their situations"....then she is worthy of sneering condescension......dismissed, yourself.....

instead of posting a picture of a book without a link, why don't you provide some evidence to support your claim?......

{note: I hate it when people post something stupid and pretend it is "well documented"........}

[bullypulpit]

I will contribute that if she truely said "that Old Testament writers rewrote and revised older scripture to appeal to the faithful of the day and make it more relevant to their situations"....then she is worthy of sneering condescension......dismissed, yourself.....

instead of posting a picture of a book without a link, why don't you provide some evidence to support your claim?......

{note: I hate it when people post something stupid and pretend it is "well documented"........}

Try reading sometime...You might find it educational.

[Yurt]

The "end days" are going to be when a natural disaster ruins the planet. That could be an asteroid, or the eventual engulfing of our planet by the sun.

Do I think the end days is going to be when Jesus swoops down and puts all the "non believers" in hell and takes all the "believers" with him to heaven?
Nope.

What is "natural?"

[PostmodernProphet]

Try reading sometime...

I will....as soon as you post it.....

[bullypulpit]

I will....as soon as you post it.....

I did. It's not my fault you're too bloody lazy to borrow a book from your local library and read it.

But let's cut to the chase. Look to Kings 4:27-37. In this Old Testament passage a parent comes to Elisha in anguish over their only child. You see this repeated in Mark 5:22-24 and Mark 5:35-43 where a distraught parent comes to Jesus regarding their only child.

In both stories, someone tries to prevent the parent from disturbing Elisha/Jesus. In neither story is it made clear whether the child is dead, dying or sleeping. In both stories the distance to the house a matter of some distance. In both stories, another person from the house comes and confirms that the child is, indeed, dead. In both stories Elisha/Jesus continue on to the house and the parent proceeds ahead of Elisha/Jesus to the house. And in both cases Elisha/Jesus run everyone out of the house before performing their miracle.

It should be apparent by this point that the story from the Book of Mark in the New Testament was lifted, almost word for word, from the Book of Kings in the Old Testament. The only changes being those which made it relevant to the writer(s) of the Book of Mark and contemporaneous/contextual to those who were its audience at that time. And this is but one example.

[PostmodernProphet]

It should be apparent by this point that the story from the Book of Mark in the New Testament was lifted, almost word for word, from the Book of Kings in the Old Testament.

or, that it was literally true that both were very busy people with the power to bring people back from the dead......

Elisha was a prophet.....his role was to foretell the coming of Christ, to demonstrate that role to the people of Israel......Jesus engaged in countless activities that the OT prophets engaged in, fulfilling their prophecies.....it wasn't that some lazy writer didn't want to come up with a new story, it was that the story itself was Jesus fulfilling those stories......

[bullypulpit]

or, that it was literally true that both were very busy people with the power to bring people back from the dead......

Elisha was a prophet.....his role was to foretell the coming of Christ, to demonstrate that role to the people of Israel......Jesus engaged in countless activities that the OT prophets engaged in, fulfilling their prophecies.....it wasn't that some lazy writer didn't want to come up with a new story, it was that the story itself was Jesus fulfilling those stories......

Believe what you will. We shall have to agree to disagree. In matters of faith, as in matters of taste, there can be no satisfactory resolution of disagreements.

[PostmodernProphet]

there can be no satisfactory resolution of disagreements

except for that 'well documented' part....that was pretty easy to discredit.....

[bullypulpit]

except for that 'well documented' part....that was pretty easy to discredit.....

Just what did you discredit? You presented no evidence to disprove my thesis...Only opinion. That hardly counts. Nice try though.

[PostmodernProphet]

You presented no evidence to disprove my thesis

it was a thesis?.....I thought it was just a thoughtless comment that you didn't realize you might have to back up......all you did was flash the picture of some book.....how do we know the book has anything at all to do with your "thesis"?......it might be a cookbook filled with salmon recipies.......

you said it was "well documented", but so far I haven't seen even one 'document', let alone had opportunity to weigh how "well" it is.....your statement is discredited by your inability to support it.....

[nevadamedic]

Of course, the liberal that I am and a complete believer and follower of Christ....I believe that He will have Mercy on us....

Lamb of God,
Who takes away the sins of the world,
Have Mercy on us.

jd

Since when do Liberals believe in God other then when they are trying to get elected? :poke:

[bullypulpit]

it was a thesis?.....I thought it was just a thoughtless comment that you didn't realize you might have to back up......all you did was flash the picture of some book.....how do we know the book has anything at all to do with your "thesis"?......it might be a cookbook filled with salmon recipies.......

you said it was "well documented", but so far I haven't seen even one 'document', let alone had opportunity to weigh how "well" it is.....your statement is discredited by your inability to support it.....

Hmmm...Pot...Kettle...Black...?


Elisha was a prophet.....his role was to foretell the coming of Christ, to demonstrate that role to the people of Israel......Jesus engaged in countless activities that the OT prophets engaged in, fulfilling their prophecies.....it wasn't that some lazy writer didn't want to come up with a new story, it was that the story itself was Jesus fulfilling those stories......

Would you care to provide supporting evidence for your own assertions? Or do we just take it on faith? Your lack of intellectual curiosity is most telling, and typical of dogmatists. You will not examine anything which contradicts your views and when presented with evidence which runs contrary to those views you fall back into denial and dogma. Ye wee puir bairn.

[bullypulpit]

Since when do Liberals believe in God other then when they are trying to get elected? :poke:

Since when do Conservatives believe in God other than when they are trying to get elected? :poke:

[PostmodernProphet]

Hmmm...Pot...Kettle...Black...?


except in this instance, kettle is the only one with a thesis.....

[typomaniac]

Since when do Conservatives believe in God other than when they are trying to get elected? :poke:

But "conservatives" do believe in God. They just do their praying in restroom stalls at airports. :laugh2:

[bullypulpit]

except in this instance, kettle is the only one with a thesis.....

Now that you've recognized that I did indeed present a thesis, do you have evidence to refute it? Or will you simply lapse back into the circular logic of dogma?

[PostmodernProphet]

well, if it were a master's "thesis", you would be expected to defend it first.....in light of the fact you haven't done anything except say it was 'well documented" there isn't much to be done beyond saying "why can't you provide any documentation, then".......

[bullypulpit]

well, if it were a master's "thesis", you would be expected to defend it first.....in light of the fact you haven't done anything except say it was 'well documented" there isn't much to be done beyond saying "why can't you provide any documentation, then".......

Well golly, this isn't a master's thesis now...is it? And that I, being a semi-literate rube in your eyes apparently, have the temerity to question centuries of dogma strikes you as somehow offensive. Tch...Tch...Tch...

Now, I believe I raised a valid point and referenced a reputable and authoritative source, Karen Armstrong, as well as evidence in the form of the of biblical verses from the Book of Kings (Old Testament) and the Book of Mark (New Testament). You have presented just what to militate against that point? I mean beyond dogmatic adherence to doctrine? (crickets chirping)

[PostmodernProphet]

You have presented just what to militate against that point? I mean beyond dogmatic adherence to doctrine?

I presented recognition of the fact that all you have presented is the photo of a book cover......how long does she suggest you bake salmon, anyway?

[bullypulpit]

I presented recognition of the fact that all you have presented is the photo of a book cover......how long does she suggest you bake salmon, anyway?

Chirp...chirp...chirp...Stop niggling about a a book and address the issue...Parts of the Old Testament were copied and rewritten in the New Testament to make them more relevant to the situations of the faithful of that era. Or do you prefer to simply change the subject so as to avoid the real issues? Methinks 'tis the case.

<a href=http://www.amazon.com/Great-Transformation-Beginning-Religious-Traditions/dp/0385721242/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-6027888-5427230?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1188838676&sr=8-1>The Great Transformation: The Beginning of Our Religious Traditions</a>, Karen Armstrong, Anchor Books, New York 2007, ISBN 978-0-385-72124-0

[PostmodernProphet]

Parts of the Old Testament were copied and rewritten in the New Testament to make them more relevant to the situations of the faithful of that era

sorry, but that is simply silly bullshit.....

[bullypulpit]

sorry, but that is simply silly bullshit.....

Dismissed.

[Yurt]

Dismissed.

I see you have brought your "A" game to this board as well.

:coffee:

[Yurt]

But "conservatives" do believe in God. They just do their praying in restroom stalls at airports. :laugh2:

Admit this post was a stupid, spur of the moment brain fart.

[typomaniac]

Admit this post was a stupid, spur of the moment brain fart.

I admit that I was trying to take a funny pot shot (no pun intended). You can draw whatever other conclusions you like. :)

[Guernicaa]

Well I attempted to read through this entire thread but by the time I got to the 3rd page it was just too much to stomach.

Do you want my opinion? Well here it is:
The Christian right is fucking insane.

[actsnoblemartin]

bp, i have no axe to grind here, no horse in this race, because im not religious. But, i thought, man wrote what god said.

Just putting in my two cents.


Chirp...chirp...chirp...Stop niggling about a a book and address the issue...Parts of the Old Testament were copied and rewritten in the New Testament to make them more relevant to the situations of the faithful of that era. Or do you prefer to simply change the subject so as to avoid the real issues? Methinks 'tis the case.

<a href=http://www.amazon.com/Great-Transformation-Beginning-Religious-Traditions/dp/0385721242/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-6027888-5427230?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1188838676&sr=8-1>The Great Transformation: The Beginning of Our Religious Traditions</a>, Karen Armstrong, Anchor Books, New York 2007, ISBN 978-0-385-72124-0

[actsnoblemartin]

I appreciate the opinion, but could i have a why atleast?


Well I attempted to read through this entire thread but by the time I got to the 3rd page it was just too much to stomach.

Do you want my opinion? Well here it is:
The Christian right is fucking insane.

[GW in Ohio]

we are in the end days right now. how long is it going to last? who knows. But Christ is coming soon. I just wish soon for men was the same as for God.

I met him last week. In Cleveland. We had lunch.

He said he was tempted to use his God powers to help the Cubs win the World Series.

But then he told the tempter to begone.

The tempter turned out to be a big-time gambler.

We had a good laugh over that and ordered another round of drinks.

Jesus likes expensive single malt scotch. Neat.

[PostmodernProphet]

He wasn't happy that you stuck him with the tab though, he brought it up again last night......