Sgt home from afganhistan gives opinion

[OCA]

not sure what that is, CSOB... pardon my naivete'... but to me, I'm somewhat like a Lou Dobbs democrat...

Your racist? Tell me you didn't equate yourself with Lou "I make millions a year but I presume to know the middle class" Dobbs.

[OCA]

That'd work too... but I try not to use profanity...

extends paw... I meant no offense to you or yours... truce?

:beer:

Oh no offense taken if yoiu take no offense when you read my last post in this thread although I do think Lou is a racist and a charletain.

[TheStripey1]

Historically, what military leader has been more lenient that Bush? Any middle eastern folks?

Sorry, I don't follow you... lenient of what?

[TheStripey1]

Your racist? Tell me you didn't equate yourself with Lou "I make millions a year but I presume to know the middle class" Dobbs.


I like some of his positions, yeah... like securing our borders... I mean REALLY securing OUR borders...

[OCA]

I like some of his positions, yeah... like securing our borders... I mean REALLY securing OUR borders...


How about amnesty for non-felony committing illegals already in country?

[TheStripey1]

Oh no offense taken if yoiu take no offense when you read my last post in this thread although I do think Lou is a racist and a charletain.

none taken... and he very well may be, but I still like his position on a secure border... I wish more of our congress critters did, too...

:beer:

[TheStripey1]

How about amnesty for non-felony committing illegals already in country?

No... I'm against amnesty. Not quite sure what to do with the 12 million illegal aliens that have come across our borders, but amnesty is NOT one of the options I'd support.

[TheStripey1]

Back to Afghanistan...

what about those damn poppies? Afghanistan is basically the world's supplier of heroin... why don't we do something to eradicate it?

[Dilloduck]

Back to Afghanistan...

what about those damn poppies? Afghanistan is basically the world's supplier of heroin... why don't we do something to eradicate it?

Why when someone can get rich selling it?

[TheStripey1]

Why when someone can get rich selling it?

well, because the warlords are using it to finance the taliban for one reason... and it's pure death for another...

why, I'd be willing to wager that heroin has killed more people than all the terrorist attacks combined...

[manu1959]

Back to Afghanistan...

what about those damn poppies? Afghanistan is basically the world's supplier of heroin... why don't we do something to eradicate it?

carpet bombing??????????????? napalm??????????????

[Dilloduck]

well, because the warlords are using it to finance the taliban for one reason... and it's pure death for another...

why, I'd be willing to wager that heroin has killed more people than all the terrorist attacks combined...

I have a feeling that a hell of a lot of things are funded by the drug trade.

[Mr. P]

Back to Afghanistan...

what about those damn poppies? Afghanistan is basically the world's supplier of heroin... why don't we do something to eradicate it?


Why when someone can get rich selling it?

Can't do it. Wipe out the supply and what do the politicians do with the 'war on drugs'?..nahhhh they'll never do it. Too much tax $$$ involved.

[Dilloduck]

Can't do it. Wipe out the supply and what do the politicians do with the 'war on drugs'?..nahhhh they'll never do it. Too much tax $$$ involved.

Amen-----drugs = cash !!! can't just burn it all up !

[Gunny]

I use it where I see it needed... which in your case, is everytime... EXCEPT when you served...

so which ones? too chicken to say?

Rush? Michael? Billo? Sean? who?

If it helps you out any, I go teh exact same route you said you do .... I type "news" into google and run down the list.

I don't care for Rush nor Hannity ... Michael WHO? .... and I sometimes watch O'Reilly.

Since all are op-eds, I do not consider any of them news sources.

[Gunny]

I never saw any... did you?

Do you believe everything the right winged whackoe press tells you?

why I bet you believed Pelosi wanted a bigger jet than Hastert had... afterall, it was all over your right winger news sites and put out by the GOP as a talking point... guess that proves to a repug... size matters....

all Pelosi wanted was one that could "go the distance"...

Matter of fact, I have. When my father returned from Nam the second time. The peaceniks were there to "greet" the MAC flight.

What right wing whacko press?

That Pelosi or ANY Congress critters want a jet period is all I need to know. I'd love to trim both their perks AND their pay.

[Gunny]

Of course al sadr operated in Iraq... He IS an Iraqi... where do you think he should be? Pakistan?

I corrected myself several posts back for using the wrong name. I meant Zarqawi, not al Sadr.

[Gunny]

yeah they had a draft then... they took anyone...

they allowed non high school grads before now? really? I didn't know that...

do you think that felons should be able to serve in the military? cuz I don't...

They've always allowed non-high school grads as far as I know. They just make them get a GED.

Not sure on the felony thing. I think it should be judged on a case-by-case basis, depending on what the felony is.

You can get a felony conviction while in the service and still at least finish your tour, and a court-martial conviction in and of itself is not grounds for denying reenlistment. IIRC, one can reenlist with no more than two Office Hours (Article 15, NJP), and no more than one court martial conviction.

[Gunny]

Thanks gunny...

beer?

Always.:cheers2:

[Gunny]

Pakistan is giving the Taliban safe haven and we just gave Pakistan Apache helicopters... does that mean we are also guilty of supporting the those that harbor terrorists?

I thought bush had an edict against those that aid the terrorists...

You know the game .... The Government of Pakistan does not officially support terrorism, and that's who we're trying to bribe.

If it was up to me, I'd go in after them anyway and provide the Government of Pakistan a copy of the after action report.

[red states rule]

First, a NBC "analyst" calls members of the US military mercenaries - now AP calls them tortures


AP: TV Turns Soldiers Into Torturers
Posted by Warner Todd Huston on February 12, 2007 - 09:59.

The AP has found a new way to attack TV's 24. They say that because of the depiction of character Jack Bauer's, shall we say, short-cuts in interrogating prisoners his ways have now infected the US Military. Absurdly, the AP is advancing the case, in "Does Jack Bauer Influence Interrogators?", that "there are indications that real-life American interrogators in Iraq are taking cues from what they see on television."

Are they indeed? Says who?

Predictably the AP reports these claims are from the "advocacy group Human Rights First".

No surprise there, eh?

The scene from Fox's "24" is haunting, but hardly unusual. The advocacy group Human Rights First says there's been a startling increase in the number of torture scenes depicted on prime-time television in the post-2001 world.

Even more chilling, there are indications that real-life American interrogators in Iraq are taking cues from what they see on television, said Jill Savitt, the group's director of public programs.

The article, of course, offers no real proof and even more ridiculously -- get this -- it is written by David Bauder, the AP television writer!

Not a news guy... an entertainment guy is responsible for this mess!

After reading this gem of reporting, you'll see how empty of any substance it really is. But it serves the AP's purpose of advancing the message that our soldiers are mind-numbed, animals that are so stupid that a TV show will cause them to torture everyone in their charge. Yes, it serves the AP's purpose to smear the US military quite well.

In fact, about the only sensible quote in the entire piece is from one of the producers of 24.

"We're not a documentary or a manual on interrogation," he said. "We're not a primer on the war on terror. We're a television show."

Truthfully, there isn't much worth wasting breath about in this sloppy story, but it does raise some interesting questions.

How does the violence on TV infect the simple minds of our military, yet video games and movies are constantly claimed to be "just entertainment" in any other context? After all, they always say that the violence won't affect our young because it's "just movie fantasy", or video, fantasy, or what have you. Yet, the same people rush to the support the violence and anti-sociality of Rap "music" every chance they get claiming it's "just music" along with doing the same for TV and movies in similar fashion.

Yet, here is an entertainment "reporter" claiming that our soldiers are being ruined by this TV show and its fake violence?

What gives?

How can fake entertainment violence harm soldiers but not our children? How can it turn soldiers into crazed torturers but be perfectly harmless for the rest of society?

The answer to that is, of course, that the AP finds it advantageous to make an exception to their regular stance if it helps them smear the US military and the war effort.

Yep, no surprise there.

http://newsbusters.org/node/10770

[TheStripey1]

If it helps you out any, I go teh exact same route you said you do .... I type "news" into google and run down the list.

I don't care for Rush nor Hannity ... Michael WHO? .... and I sometimes watch O'Reilly.

Since all are op-eds, I do not consider any of them news sources.

Michael (Weiner) Savage... just another chickenhawk "news" hack...

[TheStripey1]

Matter of fact, I have. When my father returned from Nam the second time. The peaceniks were there to "greet" the MAC flight.

What right wing whacko press?

That Pelosi or ANY Congress critters want a jet period is all I need to know. I'd love to trim both their perks AND their pay.

Those flights usually landed on military bases... I know because I met a lot of them while stationed at Travis AFB... and I don't think they let peaceniks onto military bases back then... I sure don't recall seeing any...

Fox News... Washington Times... New York Post... and numerous online sites...

The Speaker of the House has been afforded a private jet since 9/11... 3rd in line and all that... Hastert had one... did it matter to you that he had one when HE was Speaker?

:dunno:

[TheStripey1]

First, a NBC "analyst" calls members of the US military mercenaries - now AP calls them tortures


AP: TV Turns Soldiers Into Torturers
Posted by Warner Todd Huston on February 12, 2007 - 09:59.

The AP has found a new way to attack TV's 24. They say that because of the depiction of character Jack Bauer's, shall we say, short-cuts in interrogating prisoners his ways have now infected the US Military. Absurdly, the AP is advancing the case, in "Does Jack Bauer Influence Interrogators?", that "there are indications that real-life American interrogators in Iraq are taking cues from what they see on television."

Are they indeed? Says who?

Predictably the AP reports these claims are from the "advocacy group Human Rights First".

No surprise there, eh?

The scene from Fox's "24" is haunting, but hardly unusual. The advocacy group Human Rights First says there's been a startling increase in the number of torture scenes depicted on prime-time television in the post-2001 world.

Even more chilling, there are indications that real-life American interrogators in Iraq are taking cues from what they see on television, said Jill Savitt, the group's director of public programs.

The article, of course, offers no real proof and even more ridiculously -- get this -- it is written by David Bauder, the AP television writer!

Not a news guy... an entertainment guy is responsible for this mess!

After reading this gem of reporting, you'll see how empty of any substance it really is. But it serves the AP's purpose of advancing the message that our soldiers are mind-numbed, animals that are so stupid that a TV show will cause them to torture everyone in their charge. Yes, it serves the AP's purpose to smear the US military quite well.

In fact, about the only sensible quote in the entire piece is from one of the producers of 24.

"We're not a documentary or a manual on interrogation," he said. "We're not a primer on the war on terror. We're a television show."

Truthfully, there isn't much worth wasting breath about in this sloppy story, but it does raise some interesting questions.

How does the violence on TV infect the simple minds of our military, yet video games and movies are constantly claimed to be "just entertainment" in any other context? After all, they always say that the violence won't affect our young because it's "just movie fantasy", or video, fantasy, or what have you. Yet, the same people rush to the support the violence and anti-sociality of Rap "music" every chance they get claiming it's "just music" along with doing the same for TV and movies in similar fashion.

Yet, here is an entertainment "reporter" claiming that our soldiers are being ruined by this TV show and its fake violence?

What gives?

How can fake entertainment violence harm soldiers but not our children? How can it turn soldiers into crazed torturers but be perfectly harmless for the rest of society?

The answer to that is, of course, that the AP finds it advantageous to make an exception to their regular stance if it helps them smear the US military and the war effort.

Yep, no surprise there.

http://newsbusters.org/node/10770

and the relevance of this post to the topic of Afghanistan is what?

you lost, red? or is it self induced short term memory loss? :lmao:

I told you you gotta stop doing those illicit drugs... it'll rot your brain and then you'll never get out of high school...

:lmao:

[Bonnie]

Hmm. I saw some bitching about democrats and then some technical, self-righteous military gobblety-gook about what a badass this guy thinks he is for doing his job. Odd though that I didn't see anything in there about this guy being tired of seeing caskets with US flags draped over them being sent home on cargo planes. Or about him being tired of Republicans continually supporting administrative policies that have resulted in more of those caskets being shipped home than was necessary. Funny he calls the president his "commander in chief" as if the moniker alone should be enough to command respect. Well it isn't. When your policies have failed as miserably as this president's have, US citizens and most importantly, US military personnel should be the first to wake up and say "Gee, maybe something's amiss. Maybe this guy is either stupid or doesn't have my best interests at heart."

You might-as-well have wiped your ass with the flag and splattered it onto your computer monitor. The gist would've been the same. So you're a Republican. I could tell from your militaristic avatar. You didn't have to beat the horse any more. It was already dead!

So then being antiwar as you are I wonder if you think it's okay to just pull our troops out and leave the Iraqis who do want freedom, and are working toward that end to just be slaughtered by thier own kind?????

Anyone who voluntarily joins the military knows they are beholden to the Comander in chief, whoever that may be, and further to take the oath of loyalty to this country they make seriously.
Are you only concerned with the opinions of those soldiers who share your anit-war opinion few as they are???

[Roomy]

If the general public are unwilling to accept the realities of war maybe they should be kept in the dark or fed sugar coated versions, like, "Military tickled terrorist until he confessed".It's not nice, and thats a fact.

[Grumplestillskin]

So then being antiwar as you are I wonder if you think it's okay to just pull our troops out and leave the Iraqis who do want freedom, and are working toward that end to just be slaughtered by thier own kind????

Well unless the US is gonna be there 'til judgement day, that is going to happen no matter when the US pulls out..


Anyone who voluntarily joins the military knows they are beholden to the Comander in chief, whoever that may be, and further to take the oath of loyalty to this country they make seriously.

As long as the CIC is making the right decisions and doesn't use misguiding thinking to get the folks in harms way for nothing.

[Gunny]

Michael (Weiner) Savage... just another chickenhawk "news" hack...

Heard the name. Can't say that I recall having ever seen/heard him, nor read anything by him.

[CSM]

Those flights usually landed on military bases... I know because I met a lot of them while stationed at Travis AFB... and I don't think they let peaceniks onto military bases back then... I sure don't recall seeing any...

:dunno:

It depended on what MAC flight you got...I flew into Oakland (twice) because I was on a commercial carrier. Flew regular military aircraft from in country to Japan and then got transfered over to a CAT Y (civilian aircraft) to get to CONUS (USA). Did not see any organized protests but the peaceniks were there...that's for sure. They made damn sure I knew it too.

[Gunny]

Those flights usually landed on military bases... I know because I met a lot of them while stationed at Travis AFB... and I don't think they let peaceniks onto military bases back then... I sure don't recall seeing any...

Fox News... Washington Times... New York Post... and numerous online sites...

The Speaker of the House has been afforded a private jet since 9/11... 3rd in line and all that... Hastert had one... did it matter to you that he had one when HE was Speaker?

:dunno:

The flights used to land in Oakland. While I was in, they landed at Oakland, LAX, and Anchorage.

I honestly did not know Hastert had a private jet at his disposal, and yes it would have bothered me. ALL the perks and free trips, and free parking (ever try to park in the District?), free meals ... on top of them making sure they reward themselves for their inacitivity each year with a raise, pisses me off, and I am completely non-partisan about it.

[manu1959]

The flights used to land in Oakland. While I was in, they landed at Oakland, LAX, and Anchorage.

I honestly did not know Hastert had a private jet at his disposal, and yes it would have bothered me. ALL the perks and free trips, and free parking (ever try to park in the District?), free meals ... on top of them making sure they reward themselves for their inacitivity each year with a raise, pisses me off, and I am completely non-partisan about it.

after 911....the white house wanted the 3rd in line to stop flying commercial and gave them a private jet....hassert had a "gulfstream" style jet

[Bonnie]

Well unless the US is gonna be there 'til judgement day, that is going to happen no matter when the US pulls out..

I don't agree with that thinking. Most of those people want freedom, not necessarily our kind of democracy but freedom nonetheless. I disagree that they are uncultured people incapable of establishing a cohesive government.

[Gunny]

after 911....the white house wanted the 3rd in line to stop flying commercial and gave them a private jet....hassert had a "gulfstream" style jet

If they were sitting their butts in their respective Houses at the Capitol, they wouldn't need to be galavanting around in top-of-the-line jets at taxpayer expense.

[jillian]

If they were sitting their butts in their respective Houses at the Capitol, they wouldn't need to be galavanting around in top-of-the-line jets at taxpayer expense.

But the fact is with re-election as frequent as it is, they essentially have to start running for re-election from the moment they're sworn back in. That means they have to go back and forth to their district... constituent services, etc.

You didn't really answer, though. Did it bother you when it was Hastart? Because I don't recall anyone complaining about it... ever. Maybe I missed it. :poke:

[CockySOB]

But the fact is with re-election as frequent as it is, they essentially have to start running for re-election from the moment they're sworn back in. That means they have to go back and forth to their district... constituent services, etc.
Yeah, but that reinforces my argument FOR term limits and AGAINST professional politicians.


You didn't really answer, though. Did it bother you when it was Hastart? Because I don't recall anyone complaining about it... ever. Maybe I missed it.
It sure as hell bugged me. Professional politicians are a plague on humanity. Life-size mosquitoes they are, parasites. Party affiliation doesn't matter.

[jillian]

Yeah, but that reinforces my argument FOR term limits and AGAINST professional politicians.

No thanks. I don't believe in the whole "stop me before I vote again" thing. I'm very happy with my Congressman. I don't agree with him on everything, but he does a good job for the district. Why would I want to replace him "just because"?


It sure as hell bugged me. Professional politicians are a plague on humanity. Life-size mosquitoes they are, parasites. Party affiliation doesn't matter.

Well, I'm not sure I can argue with that one. :cheers2:

still and all, she should have what her predecessor had

[TheStripey1]

It depended on what MAC flight you got...I flew into Oakland (twice) because I was on a commercial carrier. Flew regular military aircraft from in country to Japan and then got transfered over to a CAT Y (civilian aircraft) to get to CONUS (USA). Did not see any organized protests but the peaceniks were there...that's for sure. They made damn sure I knew it too.

We had commercial airliners flying into Travis from Viet Nam... Braniff, Continental, Delta to name the few I remember... I am not at all familiar with the scenario you have described, Oakland?? REALLY??... not saying it didn't happen that way, only that I didn't see any of it during my hitch... I got out in July of '70... when did you fly in?

I bet you saw some Hari Krishnas too... cuz they used to be all over the airports chanting and selling incense...

[TheStripey1]

The flights used to land in Oakland. While I was in, they landed at Oakland, LAX, and Anchorage.

I honestly did not know Hastert had a private jet at his disposal, and yes it would have bothered me. ALL the perks and free trips, and free parking (ever try to park in the District?), free meals ... on top of them making sure they reward themselves for their inacitivity each year with a raise, pisses me off, and I am completely non-partisan about it.


Park in DC??? Me??? noooooo... wrong coast... and I have no desire to go either... TYVM... I'll take your word for it...

[Gunny]

But the fact is with re-election as frequent as it is, they essentially have to start running for re-election from the moment they're sworn back in. That means they have to go back and forth to their district... constituent services, etc.

Do you hear yourself? Their job is to represent the people of this Nation, and govern, not run for reelection. As far as I'm concerned, they can run to and from home at their own expense. Might cut down on the lead time for beginning the reelection campaign the day after the previous election.

You didn't really answer, though. Did it bother you when it was Hastart? Because I don't recall anyone complaining about it... ever. Maybe I missed it. :poke:

I did answer.

[Grumplestillskin]

I don't agree with that thinking. Most of those people want freedom, not necessarily our kind of democracy but freedom nonetheless. I disagree that they are uncultured people incapable of establishing a cohesive government.

What they are are at least three different groups of people who have, and always will, hate each other's guts. It has nothing to do with them being uncultured.

[darin]

Uncultured? Maybe not...idiots? probably.

[CSM]

We had commercial airliners flying into Travis from Viet Nam... Braniff, Continental, Delta to name the few I remember... I am not at all familiar with the scenario you have described, Oakland?? REALLY??... not saying it didn't happen that way, only that I didn't see any of it during my hitch... I got out in July of '70... when did you fly in?

I bet you saw some Hari Krishnas too... cuz they used to be all over the airports chanting and selling incense...

First time back was '69...second was '71. Actually, what I remember most (besides the anti-military attitude) was the mini-skirts! They were just becoming popular then. I was a young stud puppy then so was VERY intrigued!

[darin]

69? 71? dang, brother...you're older than I thought. :)

[TheStripey1]

First time back was '69...second was '71. Actually, what I remember most (besides the anti-military attitude) was the mini-skirts! They were just becoming popular then. I was a young stud puppy then so was VERY intrigued!


scratches head... well, that's in the same time frame... :dunno: I flew both into Viet Nam and out of there on a commercial airliner leased by Uncle Sam, both times either originating from or landing at travis... Braniff DC-8s as I recall... a bright green one going and an orange one returning...

[CSM]

69? 71? dang, brother...you're older than I thought. :)

Joined in '68...heh. Had a six year break starting in '83...ended up with 30 years total (all Army)

[TheStripey1]

mini-skirts? ohhhh yeah... I remember mini skirts too... mmmmmmmm... mini skirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrts...

:eek:

[darin]

Joined in '68...heh. Had a six year break starting in '83...ended up with 30 years total (all Army)

wow. My wife was born in June of 78. That'd put you, what? Mid-late 20s? :)

:D

[CSM]

wow. My wife was born in June of 78. That'd put you, what? Mid-late 20s? :)

:D

LOL...I have children older than that. Would make me late 20's

[Gunny]

scratches head... well, that's in the same time frame... :dunno: I flew both into Viet Nam and out of there on a commercial airliner leased by Uncle Sam, both times either originating from or landing at travis... Braniff DC-8s as I recall... a bright green one going and an orange one returning...

I've flown to Okinawa several times on a commerical airliner leased by Uncle Sam ... LAX to Kadena, with stops in Oakland and Anchorage.

In the aforementioned incident, we picked my father up at Oakland, in 68, IIRC.

[Gunny]

wow. My wife was born in June of 78. That'd put you, what? Mid-late 20s? :)

:D

Dude, I GRADUATED in 77.:smoke:

[CSM]

Dude, I GRADUATED in 77.:smoke:

Yer all punk kids!

[Gunny]

Yer all punk kids!

It's all relative; however, I'll take being called a kid where I can get it!:D

[zefrendylia]

I like this rant better...

After Pat’s Birthday

by Kevin Tillman

It is Pat’s birthday on November 6, and elections are the day after. It gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Pat before we joined the military. He spoke about the risks with signing the papers. How once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American leadership and the American people. How we could be thrown in a direction not of our volition. How fighting as a soldier would leave us without a voice… until we get out.

Much has happened since we handed over our voice:

Somehow we were sent to invade a nation because it was a direct threat to the American people, or to the world, or harbored terrorists, or was involved in the September 11 attacks, or received weapons-grade uranium from Niger, or had mobile weapons labs, or WMD, or had a need to be liberated, or we needed to establish a democracy, or stop an insurgency, or stop a civil war we created that can’t be called a civil war even though it is. Something like that.

Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.

Somehow our elected leaders were subverting international law and humanity by setting up secret prisons around the world, secretly kidnapping people, secretly holding them indefinitely, secretly not charging them with anything, secretly torturing them. Somehow that overt policy of torture became the fault of a few “bad apples” in the military.

Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a five-year-old kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and send it overseas, or slapping stickers on cars, or lobbying Congress for an extra pad in a helmet. It’s interesting that a soldier on his third or fourth tour should care about a drawing from a five-year-old; or a faded sticker on a car as his friends die around him; or an extra pad in a helmet, as if it will protect him when an IED throws his vehicle 50 feet into the air as his body comes apart and his skin melts to the seat.

Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes.

Somehow American leadership, whose only credit is lying to its people and illegally invading a nation, has been allowed to steal the courage, virtue and honor of its soldiers on the ground.

Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started.

Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated.

Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated.

Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.

Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated.

Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.

Somehow torture is tolerated.

Somehow lying is tolerated.

Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense.

Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.

Somehow a narrative is more important than reality.

Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.

Somehow the most reasonable, trusted and respected country in the world has become one of the most irrational, belligerent, feared, and distrusted countries in the world.

Somehow being politically informed, diligent, and skeptical has been replaced by apathy through active ignorance.

Somehow the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country.

Somehow this is tolerated.

Somehow nobody is accountable for this.

In a democracy, the policy of the leaders is the policy of the people. So don’t be shocked when our grandkids bury much of this generation as traitors to the nation, to the world and to humanity. Most likely, they will come to know that “somehow” was nurtured by fear, insecurity and indifference, leaving the country vulnerable to unchecked, unchallenged parasites.

Luckily this country is still a democracy. People still have a voice. People still can take action. It can start after Pat’s birthday.

Kevin Tillman joined the Army with his brother Pat in 2002, and they served together in Iraq and Afghanistan. Pat was killed in Afghanistan on April 22, 2004. Kevin was discharged in 2005.

...Oh Kevin you liberal, traitorous, democrat, cut-and-runner, CNN-loving, commie-bastard youuuu :wink2:

[nevadamedic]

I thought this was interesting and really says it like it is.

http://www.blackfive.net/main/

Things that I am tired of in this war:

I am tired of Democrats saying they are patriotic and then insulting my commander in chief and the way he goes about his job.

I am tired of Democrats who tell me they support me, the soldier on the ground, and then tell me the best plan to win this war is with a “phased redeployment” (liberal-speak for retreat) out of the combat zone to someplace like Okinawa.

I am tired of the Democrats whining for months on T.V., in the New York Times, and in the House and Senate that we need more troops to win the war in Iraq, and then when my Commander in Chief plans to do just that, they say that is the wrong plan, it won’t work, and we need a “new direction.”

I am tired of every Battalion Sergeant Major and Command Sergeant Major I see over here being more concerned about whether or not I am wearing my uniform in the “spot on,” most garrison-like manner; instead of asking me whether or not I am getting the equipment I need to win the fight, the support I need from my chain of command, or if the chow tastes good.

I am tired of junior and senior officers continually doubting the technical expertise of junior enlisted soldiers who are trained far better to do the jobs they are trained for than these officers believe.

I am tired of senior officers and commanders who fight this war with more of an eye on the media than on the enemy, who desperately needs killing.

I am tired of the decisions of Sergeants and Privates made in the heat of battle being scrutinized by lawyers who were not there and will never really know the state of mind of the young soldiers who were there and what is asked of them in order to survive.

I am tired of CNN claiming that they are showing “news,” with videotape sent to them by terrorists, of my comrades being shot at by snipers, but refusing to show what happens when we build a school, pave a road, hand out food and water to children, or open a water treatment plant.

I am tired of following the enemy with drones that have cameras, and then dropping bombs that sometimes kill civilians; because we could do a better job of killing the right people by sending a man with a high powered rifle instead.

I am tired of the thousands of people in the rear who claim that they are working hard to support me when I see them with their mochas and their PX Bags walking down the street, in the middle of the day, nowhere near their workspaces.

I am tired of Code Pink, Daily Kos, Al-Jazzera, CNN, Reuters, the Associated Press, ABC, NBC, CBS, the ACLU, and CAIR thinking that they somehow get to have a vote in how we blast, shoot and kill these animals who would seek to subdue us and destroy us.

I am tired of people like Meredith Vieria from NBC asking oxygen thieves like Senator Chuck Hagel questions like “Senator, at this point, do you think we are fighting and dying for nothing?” Meredith might not get it, but soldiers do know the difference between fighting and dying for something and fighting and dying for nothing.

I am tired of hearing multiple stories from both combat theaters about snipers begging to do their jobs while commanders worry about how the media might portray the possible casualties and what might happen to their career.

I am tired of hearing that the Battalion Tactical Operations Center got a new plasma screen monitor for daily briefings, but rifle scope rings for sniper rifles, extra magazines, and necessary field gear were disapproved by the unit supply system.

I am tired of out of touch general officers, senators, congressmen and defense officials who think that giving me some more heavy body armor to wear is helping me stay alive. Speed is life in combat and wearing 55 to 90 pounds of gear for 12 to 20 hours a day puts me at a great tactical disadvantage to the idiot, mindless terrorist who is wearing no armor at all and carrying an AK-47 and a pistol.

I am tired of soldiers who are stationed in places like Kuwait and who are well away from any actual combat getting Hostile Fire/Imminent Danger Pay and the Combat Zone Tax Exclusion when they live on a base that has a McDonald’s, a Pizza Hut, a Subway, a Baskin Robbins, an internet café, 2 coffee shops and street lights.

I am tired of senior officers and commanders who take it out and "measure" every time they want to have a piece of the action with their helicopters or their artillery; instead of putting their egos aside and using their equipment to support the grunt on the ground.

I am tired of senior officers and commanders who are too afraid for their careers to tell the truth about what they need to win this war to their bosses so that the soldiers can get on with kicking the ass of these animals.

I am tired of Rules of Engagement being made by JAG lawyers and not Combat Commanders. We are not playing Hopscotch over here. There is no 2nd place trophy either. I think that if the enemy knew some rough treatment and some deprivation was at hand for them, instead of prayer rugs, special diets and free Korans; this might help get their terrorist minds “right.”

I am tired of seeing Active Duty Army and Marine units being extended past their original redeployment dates, when there are National Guard Units that have yet to deploy to a combat zone in the last 40 years.

I am tired of hearing soldiers who are stationed in safe places talk about how hard their life is.

I am tired of seeing Infantry Soldiers conducting what amounts to “SWAT” raids and performing the US Army’s version of “CSI Iraq” and doing things like filling out forms for evidence when they could be better used to hunt and kill the enemy.

I am tired of senior officers and commanders who look first in their planning for how many casualties we might take, instead of how many enemy casualties we might inflict.

I am tired of begging to be turned loose so that this war can be over.

Those of us who fight this war want to win it and go home to their families. Prolonging it with attempts to do things like collect “evidence” or present whiz bang briefings on a new plasma screen TV is wasteful and ultimately, dulls the edge of our Infantry soldiers who are trained to kill people and break things, not necessarily in that order.

We are not in Iraq and Afghanistan to build nations. We are there to kill our enemies. We make the work of the State Department easier by the results we achieve.

It is only possible to defeat an enemy who kills indiscriminately by utterly destroying him. He cannot be made to yield or surrender. He will fight to the death by the hundreds to kill only one or two of us.

And so far, all of our “games” have been “away games,” and I don’t know about the ignorant, treasonous Democrats and the completely insane radical leftists and their thoughts on the matter, but I would like to keep our road game schedule.

So let’s get it done. Until the fight is won and there is no more fight left.

What about not liking being called a loser by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and Speaker Pelosi by saying the war is lost. How could we have lost when we are still in the middle of it? To me that is calling everyone who has fought so hard and given their lives over there losers, that can and will not be tolerated.

[Gaffer]

I like this rant better...

After Pat’s Birthday

by Kevin Tillman



...Oh Kevin you liberal, traitorous, democrat, cut-and-runner, CNN-loving, commie-bastard youuuu :wink2:

:link: Somehow I just don't think this was written by him. But it is something a traitor like yourself would dig up.

[Kathianne]

:link: Somehow I just don't think this was written by him. But it is something a traitor like yourself would dig up.
I could not find a link, I tried all sorts of ways.

[Gaffer]

I could not find a link, I tried all sorts of ways.

I don't think you will as I don't believe Kevin wrote that.