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jimnyc
08-31-2018, 07:50 AM
I was visiting my usual sites this morning and came across this top 10 list. It showed that Trump building/wanting a border wall separating Mexico and the USA, to stem the tide of illegals flowing into our country, is hardly original. Hell, I see some good ideas in there though, mostly with electricity! :)

But then I got thinking, is it just these countries? Just a few, and some 3rd world crapholes? Nope, far from it. In total about 65 to 70 around the world.

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10 Border Walls No One Talks About

When we talk of border walls, the first ones that come to mind are the Berlin Wall, the North and South Korea Wall, and the wall that President Donald Trump wants to build along the US border with Mexico.

Although Trump’s proposed wall has generated arguments and counterarguments, no one seems to notice the other walls popping up elsewhere. Or the ones that have been in existence for decades. There are more walls dividing countries than we think.

Moroccan Wall

The Moroccan Wall (or the “Berm”) is a 2,600-kilometer-long (1,600 mi) wall running through Western Sahara. The wall is made of 3-meter-high (10 ft) desert sand and is protected by electric fences, radar, barbed wire, Moroccan soldiers, and about seven million land mines. This makes it the world’s longest minefield and one of the world’s most guarded borders.

This is because Western Sahara is disputed territory. While most of us consider it southern Morocco, the people there say that they are part of the largely unrecognized Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic. The Polisario Front, which is fighting for the independence and recognition of Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, controls the other half of Western Sahara just outside the wall.

Baghdad Wall

The Baghdad Wall is a 4-kilometer-long (2.5 mi) concrete barrier separating the Sunni side of Baghdad from the Shiite side. Before the wall, Sunni militia regularly launched attacks on Shiite civilians, the Iraqi military (which has a Shiite majority), and US troops. Shiite militia also launched attacks on Sunni civilians in the area.

US troops built the wall around southern Ghazaliya where the Sunni militia had a stronghold. While the wall reduced the number of murders and attacks, it has created unease among Sunnis, who fear that they are being cut off from Baghdad. Others think that the wall is not for their protection but to keep them at bay and allow the Shiite militias to deal with other Sunnis outside the wall.

Some businesses and facilities that serve the Sunni community are also outside the wall, complicating the unease. Sunni insurgents tried to destroy the wall with bombs soon after it was erected. They failed and only managed to damage a small portion that was later repaired.

Botswana-Zimbabwe Electric Fence

Zimbabwe and Botswana are separated by a 500-kilometer-long (310 mi) and 2-meter-high (6 ft) electric fence built by Botswana. Botswana says the fence is necessary to stop the spread of foot-and-mouth disease brought by cattle smuggled from Zimbabwe.

If this is true, it is clear why Botswana was concerned about the disease. At the time the wall was proposed in 2003, Botswana was facing a foot-and-mouth disease epidemic that left farmers killing thousands of cattle. This posed a threat to its economy, in which cattle rearing was the second major source of income.

South Africa–Mozambique Electric Fence

South Africa has an electric fence erected along its borders with Zimbabwe and Mozambique. In 1990, the Mozambique portion of the fence, which locals called the “Snake of Fire,” was fingered for the death of hundreds of civilians fleeing the Mozambican Civil War. The electric fence delivered a deadly 3,500-volt shock to anyone who touched it.

Electric fences are usually available in lethal and nonlethal variants. The nonlethal ones could deliver shocks up to 10,000 volts in milliseconds. This is enough to stop people from attempting to breach the fence. But considering the short period of contact, it is not enough to kill.

The lethal variant, the type used in South Africa, delivers continuous shocks that will kill a person. Lucky survivors usually suffered serious burns or lost body parts.

Peace Walls Northern Ireland

Peace Walls are not a single barrier but a series of over 60 different walls that divide Belfast, Northern Ireland. In some places, the walls are nothing but short wooden fences, and in others, they are high concrete walls. The barriers were erected during the Troubles to keep the religiously and politically different unionists and nationalists apart.

Before the walls, people from both sides launched attacks. The walls slowly started creeping up around neighborhoods prone to this violence. At the time, the walls made residents feel safer.

Weirdly, most of the walls were erected after the end of the Troubles. They are slowly being demolished and are projected to be entirely destroyed by 2023.

Project Wall Ukraine

Project Wall is a planned 2,000-kilometer-long (1,200 mi) border fence and trench system separating Ukraine from Russia. It is funded by Ukraine and intended to prevent another Russian invasion. Ukraine started erecting the fence after Russia successfully annexed Crimea. The fence is still under construction and might never be completed considering current events.

Ukraine does not have enough money to complete the fence, and the little it has expended is being stolen by corrupt contractors and border guards. Most of the fenced part of the border is also compromised and not built up to standards. So far, Ukraine has only managed to dig 273 kilometers (169 mi) of trenches and to fence 83 kilometers (52 mi) of the border.

Great Wall

The Great Wall is a 966-kilometer-long (600 mi) fence and trench system that separates Saudi Arabia from Iraq. The Saudis first considered erecting the fence in 2006 over fears that belligerents of the Iraqi Civil War could launch cross-border strikes into Saudi territory.

In 2014, Saudi Arabia began construction after watching ISIS grab a huge chunk of Iraq’s territory just at its border. The Saudis feared that ISIS was preparing to launch an invasion into its territory.

The wall is protected by five parallel fences, watchtowers, surveillance equipment, and over 30,000 soldiers. While the fence was still under construction in 2015, ISIS attacked a border post to stop the Saudis from completing the project. Three border guards were killed in the attack. One was General Oudah al-Belawi, who commanded border operations in Saudi Arabia’s north.

Ceuta And Melilla Fences

Ceuta and Melilla are two Spanish cities in North Africa. Both are considered a part of Spain even though they share borders with Morocco. There is regular ferry service between the cities and mainland Spain.

This has resulted in African migrants fleeing to both cities by sneaking in on ferries going to Spain. As a result, Spain erected fences along the borders which both cities share with Morocco to stop the migrants from coming in.

The European Union also doles out millions of euros to Spain and Morocco to stop the migrants from sneaking into these cities and, consequently, into Europe through mainland Spain. The fence in Melilla is 11 kilometers (7 mi) long. It consists of three parallel fences, complete with blades, alarms, and pepper gas. The pepper gas have been deactivated for now.

Egypt-Gaza Wall

Unlike the other walls we have mentioned, the Egypt-Gaza wall is an underground wall. It was constructed to stop the smuggling of weapons into Gaza through underground tunnels from Egypt. Israel has a tight blockade on Gaza and strictly controls what can and cannot be imported. This has created problems for people importing items like food.

To bypass the borders, people have taken to smuggling items through tunnels dug from Egypt. Hamas controls these tunnels. It provides lighting and collects taxes on the smuggled products. Hamas also has its own secret tunnels that it uses to transport weapons. Although the wall was built to target these secret tunnels, it will also affect the regular tunnels used to transport food and similar crucial items.[9]

Egypt says the underground wall is 10 kilometers (6 mi) long and cannot be cut or melted. It was built with the aid of the US. Israel itself is building an underground wall above and beneath its 64-kilometer-long (40 mi) border with Gaza.

India-Bangladesh Fence

Seventy percent of India’s 4,100-kilometer-long (2,500 mi) border with Bangladesh is fenced. The 2.4-meter-high (8 ft) fence has barbed wire and, in some places, electric fence. The structure was erected in the 1980s after violence broke out in the Indian state of Assam over illegal Bangladeshi migrants in the state. Nevertheless, the fence has failed to achieve its purpose because Bangladeshi immigrants and even terrorists still get through.

Corrupt border guards collect bribes from illegal Bangladeshi immigrants to allow them into the country. Some illegal immigrants also use fake papers to beat the system. Others just pass through the rivers at the border, areas which are obviously unfenced and account for 1,116 kilometers (693 mi) of the border.

India has also been criticized for the heavy-handed manner with which it keeps out illegal Bangladeshi migrants. Indian border guards killed 900 Bangladeshis between 2001 and 2010.

http://listverse.com/2018/08/19/10-border-walls-no-one-talks-about/


World of walls: How 65 countries have erected fences on their borders – four times as many as when the Berlin Wall was toppled – as governments try to hold back the tide of migrants

-Security fears and a widespread refusal to help refugees have fuelled a new spate of wall-building around the world
-A third of the world's countries have completed or are building barriers – compared to 16 at the fall of the Berlin Wall
-They include Israel's 'apartheid wall', India's 2,500-mile fence around Bangladesh and Morocco's huge sand 'berm'
-Experts are dismissive, saying: 'Their main function is theatre. They provide the sense of security, not real security'

Globalisation was supposed to tear down barriers, but security fears and a widespread refusal to help migrants and refugees have fuelled a new spate of wall-building across the world, with a third of the world's countries constructing them along their borders.

When the Berlin Wall was torn down a quarter-century ago, there were 16 border fences around the world.

Today, there are 65 either completed or under construction, according to Quebec University expert Elisabeth Vallet.

From Israel's separation barrier (or 'apartheid wall' as it is known by the Palestinians), to the 2,500-mile barbed-wire fence India is building around Bangladesh, to the enormous sand 'berm' that separates Morocco from rebel-held parts of the Western Sahara – walls and fences are ever-more popular with politicians wanting to look tough on migration and security.

US presidential hopeful Donald Trump has made plans for a wall along the border with Mexico – to keep out what he called 'criminals, drug dealers, rapists' – central to his inflammatory campaign.

Yet experts say there is little proof of their effectiveness in stopping people crossing borders.

In July, Hungary's right-wing government began building a four-metre-high (13 feet) fence along its border with Serbia to stanch the flow of refugees from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan.

'We have only recently taken down walls in Europe; we should not be putting them up,' was one EU spokesperson's exasperated response.

Three other countries – Kenya, Saudi Arabia and Turkey – are all constructing border fences in a bid to keep out jihadist groups next door in Somalia, Iraq and Syria.

Seven miles of barrier have already been erected along the border at Reyhanli town in Hatay province - a main point for smuggling and border-crossing from Syria - the private Dogan news agency said.

The fence in Turkey will eventually stretch for 28 miles along a key stretch of its border with Syria.

But the Turkish wall pales into insignificance when compared to the multi-layered fence which will one day stretch 600 miles from Jordan to Kuwait along Saudi's border with Iraq - a line of defence against ISIS.

Rest - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3205724/How-65-countries-erected-security-walls-borders.html

Elessar
08-31-2018, 08:16 AM
The 'Wall' along our Southern border is essential.
Stem the tide as much as possible from illegal aliens and drugs.

Noir
08-31-2018, 08:41 AM
Atlast, America can join the other great wall nations - Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Zimbabwe etc

Also having Northern Ireland on that list is real weird.

jimnyc
08-31-2018, 09:29 AM
Atlast, America can join the other great wall nations - Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Zimbabwe etc

Also having Northern Ireland on that list is real weird.

I see you forgot about 65+ or so nations - like Mexico for starters.

Noir
08-31-2018, 09:46 AM
I see you forgot about 65+ or so nations - like Mexico for starters.

I was picking from the names listed in the post...but surething - America can join other great wall nations like Mexico.

STTAB
08-31-2018, 12:49 PM
I was picking from the names listed in the post...but surething - America can join other great wall nations like Mexico.

I wonder Noir, does your home have walls? I'm just going to go ahead and assume it does , so I must ask, wouldn't it be a better home if it didn't have any walls, and anyone who wanted to could just walk right in and help themselves to your things?

jimnyc
08-31-2018, 01:10 PM
I was picking from the names listed in the post...but surething - America can join other great wall nations like Mexico.

Yup, and do it the right way, and limit illegal immigration. Many a country use walls to do just that when they have areas too large to be realistically watched at every moment. Does it make us just like every other country? In the one aspect that we would have a wall. Small and large, even places like NI and the UK have walls. The Vatican has a wall. China. Spain. India. Belize. If crime is rising & there's an issue with illegal immigration, then I see no problem with building a wall and trying to have folks come in legally if they would like to come here. A country has every right to protect their borders.

Noir
08-31-2018, 01:56 PM
I wonder Noir, does your home have walls? I'm just going to go ahead and assume it does , so I must ask, wouldn't it be a better home if it didn't have any walls, and anyone who wanted to could just walk right in and help themselves to your things?

I have a fence - but a caveat to that is that we are an open doors area.

Elessar
08-31-2018, 02:21 PM
Atlast, America can join the other great wall nations - Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Zimbabwe etc

Also having Northern Ireland on that list is real weird.

I have to wonder why you focus so much on the USA, when you cannot even
'fix' the UK as much as you preach fixing the USA.

Strange....An Irish liberal gayboy is going to guide the USA?

Noir
09-01-2018, 08:07 AM
I have to wonder why you focus so much on the USA, when you cannot even
'fix' the UK as much as you preach fixing the USA.

This is an American forum, the topics at hand are generally of American interest. The few discussions that are more Euro/UK based (normally with Drummond) are nice breaks, but they’re always going to be a minority topic.


Strange....An Irish liberal gayboy is going to guide the USA?

Top quality posting.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
09-01-2018, 09:19 AM
I have a fence - but a caveat to that is that we are an open doors area.

Tear that fence down- live up to the words you preach. And consider the less fortunate, as you preach -start giving away things you possess and do not cry about the things some will steal from you when you have no fence, no walls and no locked doors my friend.
Now What Say Ye, now that I have so easily and quickly pointed out the fallacy in your stand on this- no walls- open borders and other errors in your thinking??
Reality-- ever hear of it my friend??? ..... --Tyr

Elessar
09-01-2018, 09:21 AM
This is an American forum, the topics at hand are generally of American interest. The few discussions that are more Euro/UK based (normally with Drummond) are nice breaks, but they’re always going to be a minority topic.



Top quality posting.

You sometimes run your mouth too much, being narrow-minded and judgmental.
Try fixing Ireland and the UK first instead of preaching your wares here...
Or have the forums there shut you off because of your constant whining?

Noir
09-01-2018, 09:29 AM
Tear that fence down- live up to the words you preach. And consider the less fortunate, as you preach -start giving away things you possess and do not cry about the things some will steal from you when you have no fence, no walls and no locked doors my friend.
Now What Say Ye, now that I have so easily and quickly pointed out the fallacy in your stand on this- no walls- open borders and other errors in your thinking??
Reality-- ever hear of it my friend??? ..... --Tyr

Would gladly get rid of it - all it does is catch and trap rubbish in the few meters in front of the front door - but it’s a rented property so it’s staying as is.

jimnyc
09-01-2018, 09:54 AM
I have a fence - but a caveat to that is that we are an open doors area.

We would like a wall on our southern border to help eliminate illegals from flowing in. The caveat to that is that ANY of them can come in legally if they choose to do things the right way.

aboutime
09-01-2018, 03:37 PM
Around the World. Every person alive has their own set of BORDER WALLS which Nobody ever talks about.

Let's honestly see who admits to having, and needing Border Walls here in the U.S.A.

You know you require a BORDER WALL...if you have a set of keys.

You know you require a BORDER WALL...if you have Locks on your Front, and Back doors.

You know you require a BORDER WALL...if you use a public bathroom, and LOCK the stall door as you use it.

You know you require a BORDER WALL ... if you have (or had) a LOCKER in school, both in the Hallway, or in the Gym locker rooms.

You know you require a BORDER WALL.... if you drive a vehicle, and lock it when you get out, and turn-on the ALARM system...just in case Somebody violates YOUR BORDER WALL.

You know you require a BORDER WALL...if you need a PASSWORD to enter your P.C. Phone, or even DEBATE POLICY..just to read these words.

And Finally. Do you want MILLIONS of unknown, dangerous, criminals, theive's, murderers, rapists, and LAW BREAKERS to INVADE your country, your town, your state or YOUR HOME?

Now, for all of the whiners, hypocrites, liars, idiots, and stupid people who insist...
"WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' WALL".

Time to remove all Locks, Keys, and Chains from your doors, and windows.

Strangers...much more deserving than you. Need to enter your home, and take whatever they want. AND YOU...can't say anything about it if you are against BORDER WALLS.

Elessar
09-01-2018, 03:46 PM
Would gladly get rid of it - all it does is catch and trap rubbish in the few meters in front of the front door - but it’s a rented property so it’s staying as is.

You are happily a liberal and ignorant idiot, Noir.

Come in here and preach your gayboy philosophy and assume us Moderates and
Conservatives will bow to you?

Sorry....I am not impressed in the least from your spoiled brat diatribes.
All you want is to cause dissension, but guess what? You FAIL!

Noir
09-02-2018, 02:48 AM
We would like a wall on our southern border to help eliminate illegals from flowing in. The caveat to that is that ANY of them can come in legally if they choose to do things the right way.

Eliminate? No. Reduce? Certainly.


You are happily a liberal and ignorant idiot, Noir.

Come in here and preach your gayboy philosophy and assume us Moderates and
Conservatives will bow to you?

Sorry....I am not impressed in the least from your spoiled brat diatribes.
All you want is to cause dissension, but guess what? You FAIL!

You’ve spent several posts across a range of topics just attempting personal insults etc rather than discussing the thread topic, or indeed discussing anything. Don’t be that guy.

Drummond
09-03-2018, 07:22 PM
Eliminate? No. Reduce? Certainly.

I'm no more a part of American society than you are, Noir. Even so, it occurs to me that you haven't thought this through.

Assuming that the wall isn't fully effective ... which, yes, seems reasonable (though we could both be wrong, and it's built in a way which really does make breaching it next-to-impossible) ... it surely follows that the wall wouldn't be the ONLY defence ! What about patrols around the fence ? What about spot checks ? What about observations from the air ?

What about cameras mounted on the wall, or other sensing equipment ?

I'm sure that Americans are well up to the challenge in seeing to it that the wall CAN be effective.


You’ve spent several posts across a range of topics just attempting personal insults etc rather than discussing the thread topic, or indeed discussing anything. Don’t be that guy.

Noir, I'm amazed by your comment. We're both aware of what your own 'debating' style is like .. and it doesn't just stop at objective debate. My impression is one of a foreigner exercising judgmentality of a social order he in large measure disapproves of .. as though you view things from 'a loftier standard'. I think you seriously consider you're in a position to 'teach Americans a thing or two'.

If you do, you're very wrong to take that attitude. It's not your country to adversely judge, you hold no authority, 'moral' or otherwise, to condescend to anybody here. It's certainly not your place to try to graft any values you, as a foreigner, hold .. on to a country's sensibilities when it's not even your society !!

You can question. Debate. Probe. Swap perspectives. Sure, all of that. But America is not Britain, nor does she aspire to be, in any shape or form.

This is a truth you need to deal with, Noir.

Noir
09-04-2018, 03:34 AM
it surely follows that the wall wouldn't be the ONLY defence ! What about patrols around the fence ? What about spot checks ? What about observations from the air ?

What about cameras mounted on the wall, or other sensing equipment ?

Yes, this much is clear if you look at current iterations of the wall.


Noir, I'm amazed by your comment.

If you think Elassars comments are adding to the discussion, fair enough, but I’d disagree.

Drummond
09-04-2018, 08:12 AM
If you think Elassars comments are adding to the discussion, fair enough, but I’d disagree.

I do think Elessar's comments (you really need to work on your spelling) add to the discussion.

Why ? Because you can learn a lesson from them, that's why.

I still think that you 'argue' as you do because you think, from your supposed 'loftier position', you can teach Americans some things. More, you think they're 'mandated' to listen and heed you.

Ah, BUT, does it work the other way ? Are you anything like as receptive to opposing ideas and perspectives as you expect others to be ?

The point's been made, and I think it's an eminently fair one -- UK society is far from perfect, and we have major issues we haven't even faced up to, much less meaningfully addressed. Against that backdrop .. neither of us, you or I, have the smallest right to 'get preachy' with Americans ... who, may I remind you, are running the mightiest and most successful country on the planet !!

aboutime
09-04-2018, 10:07 AM
I'm no more a part of American society than you are, Noir. Even so, it occurs to me that you haven't thought this through.

Assuming that the wall isn't fully effective ... which, yes, seems reasonable (though we could both be wrong, and it's built in a way which really does make breaching it next-to-impossible) ... it surely follows that the wall wouldn't be the ONLY defence ! What about patrols around the fence ? What about spot checks ? What about observations from the air ?

What about cameras mounted on the wall, or other sensing equipment ?

I'm sure that Americans are well up to the challenge in seeing to it that the wall CAN be effective.



Noir, I'm amazed by your comment. We're both aware of what your own 'debating' style is like .. and it doesn't just stop at objective debate. My impression is one of a foreigner exercising judgmentality of a social order he in large measure disapproves of .. as though you view things from 'a loftier standard'. I think you seriously consider you're in a position to 'teach Americans a thing or two'.

If you do, you're very wrong to take that attitude. It's not your country to adversely judge, you hold no authority, 'moral' or otherwise, to condescend to anybody here. It's certainly not your place to try to graft any values you, as a foreigner, hold .. on to a country's sensibilities when it's not even your society !!

You can question. Debate. Probe. Swap perspectives. Sure, all of that. But America is not Britain, nor does she aspire to be, in any shape or form.

This is a truth you need to deal with, Noir.

I suspect, our member Noir, has little, if any idea what real life is like for American families who lose children, wives, husbands, and friends at the hands of ILLEGAL, Government Supported, and Sanctuary living ANIMALS who invade our nation freely.
Noir probably will be celebrating AGAIN...on SEPEMBER 11th, Next Week. Cheering the VICTIMS of America who brought down the Twin Towers, Pentagon, and a Lone Airplane over Pennsylvania in 2001.

Noir sounds like his perpetual Unhappiness, and Victimization has frustrated him to the point....there are no Human beings who want to befriend him, or even recognize him as being of SOUND MIND, and BODY.