Vatican ambassador calls for Pope Francis resignation

[jimnyc]

I haven't really been a fan of the Pope. He's been too politically involved for my tastes. I don't go to church or look to the church for political advice. Just as I don't look to the government for religious advice. And if this man knew about abuses within the church and did nothing about it, then he's part of the problem and perhaps as bad for helping seal it up or doing nothing about it - IMO.

I'm tired of those in the church giving it a bad name, and the coverups over the years. It's minimal, but the lack of responses and the lack of enforcement and ensuring it stops and doesn't happen again - is also minimal, making non-catholics believe it's widespread. They need to fix this, and powerfully. Anyone remotely involved has to go.

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Former Vatican official claims Pope Francis knew of abusive ex-cardinal, calls for his resignation

A former Vatican ambassador to the U.S. said Sunday that he told Pope Francis in 2013 about allegations of sexual abuse against a prominent priest — and that Francis took no action. Now he is calling for Francis to step down.

Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano made the claims in a lengthy statement that concludes with a call for Francis' resignation: "In this extremely dramatic moment for the universal Church, he must acknowledge his mistakes and, in keeping with the proclaimed principle of zero tolerance, Pope Francis must be the first to set a good example to Cardinals and Bishops who covered up McCarrick's abuses and resign along with all of them," he writes.

CBS News spoke on a video call with Vigano, who confirmed he wrote the statement and said he was speaking out now "to combat the grave situation in the church, to protect the church and also to stop future abuse." He told CBS News producer Anna Matranga that he had no agenda and was stating facts.

Vigano, who retired in 2016 at age 75, described an exchange with Francis on June 23, 2013, shortly after he became pope. It involved Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, the former archbishop of Washington, D.C., who resigned last month over claims he sexually abused seminary students and an altar boy.

Vigano writes that he told Francis about the allegations: "Holy Father, I don't know if you know Cardinal McCarrick, but if you ask the Congregation for Bishops there is a dossier this thick about him. He corrupted generations of seminarians and priests and Pope Benedict ordered him to withdraw to a life of prayer and penance."

Vigano writes the pope did not respond to the statement, and McCarrick continued in his role as a public figure for the church.

Rest - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pope-francis-knew-of-abusive-priest-claims-former-vatican-official-carlo-maria-vigano/

[Noir]

It clearly is widespread and systemic, with the corruption literally going to the top. How anyone can support the institution is amazing.

[jimnyc]

It clearly is widespread and systemic, with the corruption literally going to the top. How anyone can support the institution is amazing.

Perhaps widespread as in many locations, far too many of course, and over time it's been consistent. But the totality of the numbers is why I said minimal. It's probably in the less than 5% area, and much lower, or folks in the church that have actually been abusive. I'm not minimizing those events, just putting the totality in perspective. And what I'm pointing out is still a ton, and still unacceptable. And even worse is the money spent to payouts and coverups and lawsuits - it's in the billions, and that's all the time. So they're spending instead of fixing those that have been busted. And that's where I get pissed. Get rid of EVERY one of them NOW. But more importantly, they need to get rid of any of these folks instantly as they find out.

With that said, how can someone support them? Again, folks aren't supporting abuse, and the church is HUGE. Most of us support the bible and not the "church" and not the "pope" and certainly never these actions. I know many many that are simply christians and go to their various churches, all following the bible and aren't donating anything that goes towards this stuff.

I support the church and the good folks, the millions and millions and millions that are all good people and are all against said abuses and any style of coverups. But yup, you see abuses in leadership groups & coverups from their superiors all the way up to the pope. Which is why this guy wants him to resign - and I'm betting that much of the congregation around the world would agree.

I'm still a part of the church, and will go to my local church. I read and enjoy the bible as my "direct" source. I like to go to church, to hear the sermons and hear from the clergy. And while connected, that doesn't mean I support the top folks or their lack of actions.

[Noir]

If the systematic abuse, and coverup of child sex crimes was being performed at the level of the Catholic Church, by a private business, would you support and fund that private business?

[jimnyc]

If the systematic abuse, and coverup of child sex crimes was being performed at the level of the Catholic Church, by a private business, would you support and fund that private business?

Say it was Apple or Microsoft or FB or the equivalent....

And 2-3% were involved in this same exact crap? I may still use the services, the things that aren't involved and the folks not involved and be happy with the free side of life. I'll support using MS or FB or whatever, and continue to use these things myself. Will I help fund them? Not if I can help it, just as I don't with the church.

[Noir]

Say it was Apple or Microsoft or FB or the equivalent....

And 2-3% were involved in this same exact crap? I may still use the services, the things that aren't involved and the folks not involved and be happy with the free side of life. I'll support using MS or FB or whatever, and continue to use these things myself. Will I help fund them? Not if I can help it, just as I don't with the church.

So if the CEO and board of directors of Facebook were complicit in the coverup of sexual abuse of untold thousands of children, faced no legal recourse for it, and protected the pedophiles involved, you’re consideration would be ‘well what percentage of employees were involved in raping children so I can consider if I’m happy using this service?’ Eh??

[High_Plains_Drifter]

This Pope is a homo supporter. He's on record being all in for homo marriage and homo priests. Homosexuality is a mental illness, and so is pedophilia. I don't think this Pope makes much of a distinction as far as one being worse than the other, and since he has no problem with homos, he probably doesn't have any problem with molesting little boys. He probably wishes they'd just keep it quiet.

[pete311]

Why do people listen to a man wearing a silly cape and hat?

[Abbey Marie]

Let me preface this with the statement that I was raised Catholic, but haven't considered myself Catholic since approximately my college days. Long time ago.

I don't like this Pope, and I think I've said so here previously. Either he doesn't know the Bible, or he is purposely misstating it. A very big problem, for a guy who is supposed to be considered infallible, IMO. Leading believers astray is a pretty serious sin.

Btw, anyone who defended the treatment that Joe Paterno received (and I recall there were many here who did), would need to call for the ouster of this Pope if guilty. Or admit to being hypocritical. (In the case of the Pope, it's worse, because there is no higher-up for the Pope to turn over the information to, as Paterno did. The Pope is the higher-up, and the buck stops there).

Having said that, the Catholic Church does a ton of good in the world. Especially for the poor. Everywhere. And it is a huge Christ-believing institution. Let's not throw out the baby with the bath water. I would get rid of this Pope in a heartbeat, but if you bankrupt the church, there will be lots of unintended bad consequences.

Finally, if you want this problem to at least somewhat dwindle, let priests marry (women). The number of gay pedophile priests attracted to the position will possibly diminish.

[Russ]

Finally, if you want this problem to at least somewhat dwindle, let priests marry (women). The number of gay pedophile priests attracted to the position will possibly diminish.

Yes, allow priests to marry. They were allowed to marry for 1000 years until that rule was fabricated by some council or some Pope. I think that the rule for priests to be celibate resulted in many gay pedophile men to be attracted to the position, since it allowed explain why they had no women in their lives, and gave them easy access to young boys.

If the rule were gone, I'm betting that gay pedophiles would stop lining up to be priests.

[jimnyc]

Noir:


So if the CEO and board of directors of Facebook were complicit in the coverup of sexual abuse of untold thousands of children, faced no legal recourse for it, and protected the pedophiles involved, you’re consideration would be ‘well what percentage of employees were involved in raping children so I can consider if I’m happy using this service?’ Eh??

Slice it any way you want, which we know you will. I am not a fan of the Catholic church and things they have done and continue to do. But I still read and believe in the bible and Jesus Christ as my savior. I will still attend various types of faith services. I will not donate to abuses.

Slice it any way you want. I use something like FB because of the amount of family and friends. I will not give a red cent to those in charge, but yes, I still use the service to keep in contact and what not. But yet the reasons I remain at them are different, so the comparison is really null anyway. But really, you can save the atheist and anti-church stuff, wasting your time on me. I don't support evil. I do support good. end of story. You seem to think one must absolve themselves from the catholic and/or christian faith as a result, which isn't nearly the case.

[Russ]

Former Vatican official claims Pope Francis knew of abusive ex-cardinal, calls for his resignation

Vigano, who retired in 2016 at age 75, described an exchange with Francis on June 23, 2013, shortly after he became pope. It involved Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, the former archbishop of Washington, D.C., who resigned last month over claims he sexually abused seminary students and an altar boy.

Pope Benedict ordered McCarrick to withdraw to a life of prayer and penance.

Vigano writes the pope did not respond to the statement, and McCarrick continued in his role as a public figure for the church.



I have to ask a couple of obvious questions:
1. If Pope Benedict order the pedophile Cardinal to "withdraw to a life of prayer and penance", then how was he still in his old position?
2. If Pope Francis did not respond to the statement, then maybe Vigano didn't make himself clear? Perhaps Vigano should have repeated himself then, instead of calling for the Pope's resignation two years later.
3. Why did Vigano wait two years before going public? Was he waiting to set up his retirement financing?


I will say that I'm a Protestant, never been a Catholic, but it is my impression that in recent years it is a little too easy and trendy to bash the Catholic Church. It is certainly guilty in the past of sheltering predatory pedophile priests, when they should have turned them over to the police, but are these recent incidents cases of individual pedophiles? I think calling the problem 'systemic' is mostly a way of vilifying the whole church instead of individuals, and of potentially setting up some big lawsuit against the whole church instead of just against one priest with a limited amount of money. Just my opinion - I have no connection to the Catholic Church.