What would it take?

[avatar4321]

What would it take for the detractors of the President and Iraq to admit we are winning the war? What bench mark would we have to pass to show you that Iraq was a good idea?

I want to know.

[hjmick]

It'll never happen.

[darin]

It'd take a Democrat be elected as President. Then, it'd be "See?? The war is going GREAT now!"

:-/

[truthmatters]

None of the benchmarks Bush himself set up for this war have been met.

Give proof of any preogress being made?

Why should we pat him on the back for failure.

You still hate Clinton for his war and it was a success.

[5stringJeff]

None of the benchmarks Bush himself set up for this war have been met.

Is that an indirect way to answer the question by saying, 'Bush's benchmarks are the ones we should use?'

[darin]

None of the benchmarks Bush himself set up for this war have been met.

Give proof of any preogress being made?

Why should we pat him on the back for failure.

You still hate Clinton for his war and it was a success.

Translation: you are too lazy to look up information on Iraq benchmarks, and too pig-headed to listen to reason. I believe you won't be happy until every last serviceman or woman, AND every freedom-loving Iraqi are killed. That way you could joyfully masturbate to the thought of GWB looking-bad.

You make me physically ill.

[typomaniac]

What would it take for the detractors of the President and Iraq to admit we are winning the war? What bench mark would we have to pass to show you that Iraq was a good idea?

I want to know.

No more suicide bombings, a nationwide infrastructure up to westen standards, free trade, and low unemployment. (As hjm said, it'll never happen.)

[JohnDoe]

the iraqi gvt has virtually fallen apart....

i heard this on the news tonight, that there is no ruling gvt in iraq....

HOW in the name of God, is this considered winning in your minds?

pray tell! supply your logic!?

[LiberalNation]

Win, we can't win against terrorism. It will always be there, if your powerfull you are always bound to have enemies. The war in Iraq, well that's a mess I guesss a friendly democratic government and peace without any more of our guys getting killed for them would work but not gona happen. War against muslim extremenist, well it'll be just like the war on drugs. We will play menimize the effect till the prob works it self out sorta like communism.

[nevadamedic]

the iraqi gvt has virtually fallen apart....

i heard this on the news tonight, that there is no ruling gvt in iraq....

HOW in the name of God, is this considered winning in your minds?

pray tell! supply your logic!?

Unless you heard it on Fox News it's innacurate.

[darin]

the iraqi gvt has virtually fallen apart....

i heard this on the news tonight, that there is no ruling gvt in iraq....

HOW in the name of God, is this considered winning in your minds?

pray tell! supply your logic!?

And I heard on the news tonite every non-gay man will be castrated.

[LiberalNation]

Unless you heard it on Fox News it's innacurate.
I heard that one fox news. Then there was the story about Gen Pace and Petraus having different ideas of how the war should be run. One (pace) saying troops should come home in 08 and the other guy being against it and wanted even more troops. Then there was a story about 3 brothers, 2 died in Iraq, one is still in Iraq but heading home to be with his family. Stopped watching about there but wasn't good news about Iraq to say the least.

[nevadamedic]

And I heard on the news tonite every non-gay man will be castrated.

Uhhhhhhhh................

[truthmatters]

Is that an indirect way to answer the question by saying, 'Bush's benchmarks are the ones we should use?'


How about any Bench marks?

What is going right in this war?

We fought an entire world war in less time than this thing is taking and we have NOTHING to show for it except More Terror and more dead and lots of debt.

[JohnDoe]

And I heard on the news tonite every non-gay man will be castrated.

oh my, now you really ''showed'' me, huh?

are you normally this nasty and sarcastic of a person, or do you occaisionaly try to reply to posts with intelligence? another great example of being a nasty Christian, on this board! kudos to you!!! :clap:

love in Christ,
jd

[nevadamedic]

How about any Bench marks?

What is going right in this war?

We fought an entire world war in less time than this thing is taking and we have NOTHING to show for it except More Terror and more dead and lots of debt.

Saddam and his sons are out of power, the Taliban is out of power ther terrorists are on the run and Bin Laden is in a cave somewhere screwing a mountain goat. We have accomplished a lot.

[Swarm]

Actually Taliban is BACK in power, and Wasn't our goal in the first place to get Osama? GW however said that Osama is not our priority.... In the war on terror Osama is not important??? hmmm...

[nevadamedic]

Actually Taliban is BACK in power, and Wasn't our goal in the first place to get Osama? GW however said that Osama is not our priority.... In the war on terror Osama is not important??? hmmm...

The hell they are..............

[Swarm]

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/taliban.html
Read under Taliban resurgence please.

[nevadamedic]

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/taliban.html
Read under Taliban resurgence please.

Moron, the Taliban does not run or even control Afganistan anymore. :slap::pee:

[Swarm]

Hmmm... proof?

[Swarm]

Oh and since we like to call each other names, You jackass cum licking retarded mother fucker, is that good?

[nevadamedic]

Hmmm... proof?

Jesus you are a dumbshit.

[Swarm]

Wow this is coming from a retard... lol

[JohnDoe]

And I heard on the news tonite every non-gay man will be castrated.

And if your sarcastic response was an indirect way of asking for support.... ;)

Here's a link on it from a few weeks ago....4 more Parliment menbers, in addition to the ones mentioned in the article, quit yesterday.

This is from the Post, and if you do not accept the Post as legitimate media, you can google it yourself and find a number of sourses suitible for you.





U.S. backs Maliki, avoids talk of Iraq government collapse

By Sue Pleming
Reuters
Friday, August 10, 2007; 2:55 PM

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Talk about whether Iraq's government will survive is taboo among U.S. officials, but experts and diplomats say the hobbled coalition is in big trouble and the betting is it won't last.

Nearly half of Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki's Cabinet members have quit or are boycotting meetings at a time when the Bush administration is under pressure to show Congress that Iraq's warring factions are reconciling.

The State Department's key players responsible for Iraq policy declined interviews on the strength of Iraq's government, but U.S. officials have made it clear that Washington backs Maliki and that talk of a collapse of his government is unhelpful.

"Prime Minister Maliki has our full support. In view of the urgency and seriousness of the issues that he and his partners in leadership are confronting, efforts to undermine or obstruct him are dangerous and unwelcome," said Philip Reeker, public affairs counselor at the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad.

Diplomats and experts say the fate of Maliki's government remains in question despite the Bush administration's support.

"With all these defections and boycotts of Cabinet meetings, it would seem that the wheels are coming off the cart," said an Arab diplomat.

Former CIA analyst Bruce Riedel said it would be a "disaster" for President George W. Bush's troop surge strategy if Maliki's government collapsed and would weaken his case to Congress, which expects a report next month from the U.S. commander in Iraq, Gen. David Petraeus.

"No matter how many numbers General Petraeus can come up with, if the government is falling apart, the American people will see that the strategy has failed on the political side," said Riedel, now with the Brookings Institution.

"It's no wonder the administration does not want to talk about it. It is a nightmare for them."

MEMORANDUM OF MISTRUST

While the White House is reluctant to publicly criticize Maliki, U.S. mistrust was exposed last November when a leaked memorandum from National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley cast doubt on the Shi'ite politician's ability to reconcile Iraq's Shia, Kurd and Sunni groups.

"The reality on the streets of Baghdad suggests Maliki is either ignorant of what is going on, misrepresenting his intentions, or that his capabilities are not yet sufficient to turn his good intentions into action," wrote Hadley.

A senior Bush administration official, who declined to be named, said nine months later there was still dissatisfaction with Maliki but talk had not turned to who might replace him.

"The question is what would that (new government) be and how long would it take," said the official, adding that it had taken months to cobble together Maliki's coalition.

If Maliki's government did collapse, the aim would be to emphasize a "unity of purpose" among the key parties and find a way to demonstrate that, the official said.

Iraq expert Olga Oliker of the RAND Corporation said attempts by Washington to seek out a new Iraqi leader would backfire.

"To be a colonial puppet master you need a much stronger understanding and subtle knowledge of the culture and history than the U.S. has demonstrated over the past few years in Iraq," Oliker said.

Maliki's government was so "dysfunctional" to begin with that its fall might not have a huge impact, former State Department Iraq analyst Wayne White said.

"Governance in Iraq is broken, and it is highly questionable whether Maliki's fall would mean all that much. Would his fall make matters worse? Yes. But I don't think his remaining in office would create a situation all that much better," said White, who left the State Department in 2005 and is at the Middle East Institute in Washington.

© 2007 Reuters


And on top of this we had the biggest terrorist attack happen this month, where hundreds were killed and injured, in the supposed stable area where the kurds are....

We need to rethink our strategy....and NOW.... the gvt is essentially gone, our troops are beat, they need either a rest or they need help, with a draft, and even a draft would take years to get us up to par....

Bush 1 in the gulf war, began with 500k in troops I believe? And his task was much smaller than ours was....

We don't have enough troops, right now to do anything for the Iraqi people, we need to regroup....and rethink our strategies....our focus might need to be a diplomatic split up of the sects or it might need to be with the surrounding countries and getting their help, but it will NOT BE WON militarily, that much has been said by all...

I think it is time for the EU to own up and help with the situation, I think it is time for Saudi Arabia to stand up and help, I think it is time to beg for God's forgiveness for what we have done to these poor people over there and hope that He intervenes and helps us.... which is unlikely..... :(

The solution is NOT going to be pretty, no matter what it is....

And we already WON the war, it is the occupation that we are messing up imo.

[nevadamedic]

Wow this is coming from a retard... lol

You definatly sound like one.

[nevadamedic]

And if your sarcastic response was an indirect way of asking for support.... ;)

Here's a link on it from a few weeks ago....4 more Parliment menbers, in addition to the ones mentioned in the article, quit yesterday.

This is from the Post, and if you do not accept the Post as legitimate media, you can google it yourself and find a number of sourses suitible for you.




And on top of this we had the biggest terrorist attack happen this month, where hundreds were killed and injured, in the supposed stable area where the kurds are....

We need to rethink our strategy....and NOW.... the gvt is essentially gone, our troops are beat, they need either a rest or they need help, with a draft, and even a draft would take years to get us up to par....

Bush 1 in the gulf war, began with 500k in troops I believe? And his task was much smaller than ours was....

We don't have enough troops, right now to do anything for the Iraqi people, we need to regroup....and rethink our strategies....our focus might need to be a diplomatic split up of the sects or it might need to be with the surrounding countries and getting their help, but it will NOT BE WON militarily, that much has been said by all...

I think it is time for the EU to own up and help with the situation, I think it is time for Saudi Arabia to stand up and help, I think it is time to beg for God's forgiveness for what we have done to these poor people over there and hope that He intervenes and helps us.... which is unlikely..... :(

The solution is NOT going to be pretty, no matter what it is....

And we already WON the war, it is the occupation that we are messing up imo.

Would you kindly explain to this moron that the Taliban is no longer the Government of Afganistan.........

[LiberalNation]

Who cares if they are the government if they still country parts of the country where the "new" islamic government doesn't reach.

[Swarm]

Oh no, NevadaMedic negative repped me. Dear lord, what am I gona do now, maybe I should go cry? I will remember to behave like you asshole next time I disagree with someone, you do not know what it means to debate, all that you know how to do is to crap over everything. I ask for proof and you call me a moron, wow that is the best argument I ever heard. Sigh what a waste of time trying to debate with you, you do not even know the meaning of the word.

[nevadamedic]

Who cares if they are the government if they still country parts of the country where the "new" islamic government doesn't reach.

Very small parts. They were forced out of power in less then a month. Even you Democrats supported us going there since they were harboring Bin Laden and admitted to doing so. They do not pose a threat to us, our allies or the new Government of Afganistan. They are nothing more then a minor militia group anymore.

[nevadamedic]

Oh no, NevadaMedic negative repped me. Dear lord, what am I gona do now, maybe I should go cry? I will remember to behave like you asshole next time I disagree with someone, you do not know what it means to debate, all that you know how to do is to crap over everything. I ask for proof and you call me a moron, wow that is the best argument I ever heard. Sigh what a waste of time trying to debate with you, you do not even know the meaning of the word.

Ok dumbshit, if you need proof that the Taliban isn't the Government of Afganistan anymore then you are the retard and a dumbfuck.

[Swarm]

I have no0t read or heard that, yet you are incapable of getting off your fat ass and showing me where it says that, and I am the dumbass? Fuck you you cocksucking piece of shit, now I see why noone likes you on this board.

[nevadamedic]

I have no0t read or heard that, yet you are incapable of getting off your fat ass and showing me where it says that, and I am the dumbass? Fuck you you cocksucking piece of shit, now I see why noone likes you on this board.

Fat? :laugh2: Noone likes me? :laugh2: Cocksucking? I will leave that up to you since im sure you love doing that, getting reach arounds and getting a Dirty Sanchez on a regular basis.

[Swarm]

What is the point of attempting to have a rational discussion with you?:lame2:

[JohnDoe]

just an fyi on the taliban resurgence:


Taliban insurgents are maintaining strong opposition to NATO-led forces in Afghanistan. 2006-2007 has seen the worst fighting in Afghanistan since coalition troops ousted the Taliban in 2001 with some 4,000 people believed to have been killed - about a quarter of them civilians. Public discontent in Afghanistan is growing over the rising number of civilian casualties and the government's failure to improve the lives of most Afghans.

Across Afghanistan, bloodshed has returned to levels not seen since the fall of the Taliban regime in 2001. About 35,000 coalition troops and another 10,000 US-led ones have been battling to reduce violence and boost the authority of President Hamid Karzai. Violence has surged since the beginning of spring.

http://www.theworld.org/?q=node/4024

[avatar4321]

No more suicide bombings, a nationwide infrastructure up to westen standards, free trade, and low unemployment. (As hjm said, it'll never happen.)

so it needs to be better than Europe?

[avatar4321]

please stop degrading my serious thread. if you want to fight. go elsewhere> I want to know what benchmarks would have to be reached to acknowledge some success.

[JohnDoe]

the 3 tribes agreeing to their oil revenue shares, them being able to defend themselves and wanting to defend themselves against the interference of alqaeda in their own civil issues. Having water and oil levels higher than they were during saddam's reign. Having electricity at higher levels than when saddam was there. Having food andcrops more bountiful than when saddam was there...Have work and busnesses thriving for all again. Give them a safe marketplace, so they can live and go on with their lives in relative peace.

This could have been a just war IF WE HAD bettered their lives and livelihood.

as many others have said, i believe this is not feasible at this point....too many things were handled poorly after we won the war against saddam, to come out better for the iraqis....or for us.... :(

[Gaffer]

Want to end the troubles in iraq and afganhistan? Take out iran. That will eliminate 80% of the problems in the middle east.

[truthmatters]

Yeah that will stop the uh................just what will it stop?

[KarlMarx]

Win, we can't win against terrorism. It will always be there, if your powerfull you are always bound to have enemies. The war in Iraq, well that's a mess I guesss a friendly democratic government and peace without any more of our guys getting killed for them would work but not gona happen. War against muslim extremenist, well it'll be just like the war on drugs. We will play menimize the effect till the prob works it self out sorta like communism.

LN, allow me to apply your logic to something totally unrelated to the WOT, i.e. rats and mosquitoes.

Those two animals are responsible for spreading more more disease and death than all of Man's wars combined, did you know that?

Rats are responsible for carrying the Bubonic and Pneumonic Plague, and other horrible illnesses. In fact, at least several hundred million deaths can be attributed to the diseases carried by rats.

Mosquitoes carry Malaria (in addition to other diseases). Approximately 2 million people die of Malaria EACH YEAR.

Now, we can't get rid of every rat and mosquito (if only we could!), but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to eradicate them wherever possible.

Now, equate terrorists with rats and mosquitoes. That's not much of a stretch, even for one so young as you. Shall we let terrorists just run free and do whatever they want?

[KarlMarx]

Oh yeah, oh liberals!!!!!!!

Ted Kennedy, when he eulogized his slain brother Robert, used this quote from Shaw to describe Robert Kennedy's attitude.....

"Some men see things as they are and ask 'Why?'
I dream things as they never were and ask 'Why Not?'"

It's too bad that the party that gave us JFK and RFK has lost its vision and has turned into the party of chicken little and surrender....

JFK and RFK were two staunch anti-communists, by the way.... in fact JFK was a close friend of Senator Joe McCarthy... yes, THAT Senator Joe McCarthy!

Oh yes, and JFK and RFK also planned the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba (covertly and without UN approval).... they thought that overthrowing Castro, a megalamaniacl dictator was worth the trouble.... gee whiz... how about that?

How unfortunate that younger brother Ted doesn't see fit to carry on his brothers' legacies.

[truthmatters]

Terrorism is a tactic not an entity.

Its an idea not an insect.

You can not kill ideas.

You cannot kill Islam either.

What needs to be done is to prove that the tactic is not a benifit to your aims.

When it is used to get us to do exactly what they want us to do then we lose.

When we dont give then the reation they want we win.

You see attacking Afganistan was a good idea, you go In and remove the government which is giving the people using the tactic a place to train their terrorists.

What you dont do is to feed into their recruiting by prooving to the prospective recruits that the reason for them to fight with the terrorist is real.

This is what we did by going into Iraq and killing the one secular government in the area and leaving the borders open for them to recruit more people.

Then we stayed and stayed and killed a bunch of Iraqis and built permenant bases and tried to get laws passed to give the oil to US companies.

We have played the game just like OBL wanted us to.

[5stringJeff]

Oh and since we like to call each other names, You jackass cum licking retarded mother fucker, is that good?


Moron, the Taliban does not run or even control Afganistan anymore. :slap::pee:


Jesus you are a dumbshit.


Wow this is coming from a retard... lol

Swarm and nevadamedic: READ AND HEED (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=6344).

[typomaniac]

so it needs to be better than Europe?

Such is the attitude that makes the world hate America. Start thinking like me; you'll enjoy it and it will do you worlds of good.

[avatar4321]

Such is the attitude that makes the world hate America. Start thinking like me; you'll enjoy it and it will do you worlds of good.

I dont think it matters what attitude we have. They will hate us because we have worked hard and obtained a strong military and a lot of wealth.

But that really has little to do with the fact that your benchmarks would make Iraq more stable than almost every nation in Europe which suffers high unemployment and highly regulated trade.

So do you really think that the only way we win is if we make Iraq better than Europe?

[truthmatters]

They dont hate us for our wealth.

what are you trying to imply that Erope has more problems than Iraq?

really?

[manu1959]

They dont hate us for our wealth.

what are you trying to imply that Erope has more problems than Iraq?

really?

really? why do they hate us.....

[truthmatters]

You dont know ?

[manu1959]

You dont know ?

bush right?

[typomaniac]

I dont think it matters what attitude we have. They will hate us because we have worked hard and obtained a strong military and a lot of wealth.
Not if we help them make things better in their own backyards. You would rather just be arrogant. :poke:

[manu1959]

Not if we help them make things better in their own backyards. You would rather just be arrogant. :poke:

now that is funny......

[avatar4321]

They dont hate us for our wealth.

what are you trying to imply that Erope has more problems than Iraq?

really?

typo stated certain objectives that would have to be met in order for Iraq to have been won. Those objectives included being some which would put Iraq in better shape than Europe. So logically the question that needed to be ask does Iraq have to be in better shape than Europe to have been won?

It has yet to have been answered. And you have yet to read anything.

[manu1959]

typo stated certain objectives that would have to be met in order for Iraq to have been won. Those objectives included being some which would put Iraq in better shape than Europe. So logically the question that needed to be ask does Iraq have to be in better shape than Europe to have been won?

It has yet to have been answered. And you have yet to read anything.

:laugh::laugh::laugh: