Visit Germany, or Not Visit Germany... That Is The Question...

[High_Plains_Drifter]

... and I've chatted with darin about the possibilities of a trip, but this is what truly gives me pause. I think Germany's Merkel should be arrested, slapped in irons and tried for TREASON. The woman is a diabolical menace to all of Europe, let alone Germany.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4NYTZ6jxCU&feature=youtu.be

[pete311]

This is the tragedy of your paranoia and mind melting. For fucks sake. Go to Germany. Stop living in fear! Live life. The world is not burning down.

[Black Diamond]

This is the tragedy of your paranoia and mind melting. For fucks sake. Go to Germany. Stop living in fear! Live life. The world is not burning down.
Tell that to the millennial bikers discussed in the other thread

[Black Diamond]

... and I've chatted with @darin (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=19) about the possibilities of a trip, but this is what truly gives me pause. I think Germany's Merkel should be arrested, slapped in irons and tried for TREASON. The woman is a diabolical menace to all of Europe, let alone Germany.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4NYTZ6jxCU&feature=youtu.be
Some could argue this... is hitlers fault.

Merkel will destroy her own country with refugees because.. 1930s xenophobia.

[pete311]

Tell that to the millennial bikers discussed in the other thread

Get real, we're talking about Germany. One of the most stable countries in the world. If you are afraid to visit Germany, just go out and dig that 6ft hole in your backyard and lie in it. Your life is over.

[Elessar]

Tell that to the millennial bikers discussed in the other thread

That is a very valid point.

[pete311]

That is a very valid point.

Cool, hide in your closet. Have a nice life.

[Drummond]

Get real, we're talking about Germany. One of the most stable countries in the world. If you are afraid to visit Germany, just go out and dig that 6ft hole in your backyard and lie in it. Your life is over.

Stable right now. Yes. But, things can happen to destabilise.

Germany is crucial to the stability of the Euro, and is totally tied into it. Which also means that if any weaker currency threatens the Euros' stability, either Germany has to move to shore it up, or if NOT shored up, it, along with other tied-in currencies, suffers a backlash.

Don't also underestimate the threat which mass immigration may well pose. All of them have to be assimilated into Germany's social structure. But how well WILL this happen ?

Ask yourself, also, how well vetted all those immigrants are. Are some terrorists ?

It's inconceivable to me that NONE of them were (or, ARE).

[pete311]

Never in my wildest dream did I ever think a bunch of tough guy military men would be afraid to visit Germany. Truly amazing and pathetic times we live in.

[Black Diamond]

Stable right now. Yes. But, things can happen to destabilise.

Germany is crucial to the stability of the Euro, and is totally tied into it. Which also means that if any weaker currency threatens the Euros' stability, either Germany has to move to shore it up, or if NOT shored up, it, along with other tied-in currencies, suffers a backlash.

Don't also underestimate the threat which mass immigration may well pose. All of them have to be assimilated into Germany's social structure. But how well WILL this happen ?

Ask yourself, also, how well vetted all those immigrants are. Are some terrorists ?

It's inconceivable to me that NONE of them were (or, ARE).
Well said. I think he should go. But he should go NOW. Don't wait for things to worsen.

[Elessar]

Cool, hide in your closet. Have a nice life.

Petey, sonny boy, I don't hide from anyone.

[pete311]

Petey, sonny boy, I don't hide from anyone.

Accept Germans. Scary lot they are.

[Gunny]

... and I've chatted with @darin (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=19) about the possibilities of a trip, but this is what truly gives me pause. I think Germany's Merkel should be arrested, slapped in irons and tried for TREASON. The woman is a diabolical menace to all of Europe, let alone Germany.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4NYTZ6jxCU&feature=youtu.beOne piece of advice: if you can't keep your mouth shut, don't go. You'd probably break half a dozen laws just ordering breakfast :laugh:

[Gunny]

Accept Germans. Scary lot they are.

Giving advice? :whistling2:

[High_Plains_Drifter]

This is the tragedy of your paranoia and mind melting. For fucks sake. Go to Germany. Stop living in fear! Live life. The world is not burning down.
See... this remark right here -^^^- is why logical people really can't talk to a liberal. It's like they're from another PLANET.

Did I say I was "PARANOID?" No.
Did I say I was "AFRAID?" No.
Is my "MIND MELTING?" No.
Is the "WORLD BURNING DOWN?" Yes, a good portion of it is.

Did I point something out about Germany that you ENTIRELY, COMPLETELY, UTTER MISSED? Yes.

Just like the two little leftist flower children bubble heads going to ride their bikes around the world to prove to people like ME how SAFE it is. Didn't get very far and they were mowed down with a car and stabbed to death. They too thought, oh golly gee, don't live in fear, there's nothing to be afraid of and we'll PROVE IT, and we all know how that turned out. It's people like you that march head long into danger living in your lala land of milk and honey thinking the world is a safe place, you can go anywhere, do anything, and nothing, EVER, will happen to you, because everything is FIIIIIIIINE! If those two bicycle flower children had listened to you, they'd STILL BE DEAD. If they had listened to me, they'd be ALIVE, had they taken my advice. So am I going to listen to a little ass clown like YOU? NO.

What you MISSED, little Pete, was the point about the cultural destruction of Germany by Merkel flooding the country with MUSLIM garbage from third world SHIT HOLES. You FAIL to look at the bigger picture. You just see a chance to start talking your SHIT and take it. I'm sure the people that went to work the morning of 9/11 thought, oh there's nothing to fear, nothing is going to happen.

The word here is "TREPIDATION." I don't have VICTIM tattooed on my forehead like you do.

The other reason I pause is why would I want to spend my money in a nation that pollutes it's culture, it's towns and cities, it's heritage and identity with muslim trash from M.E. shit holes that don't assimilate and bring nothing but violence, death and destruction?

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/01/1000-muslims-screaming-allahu-akbar-set-fire-to-germanys-oldest-church-on-new-years-eve

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/07/germany-muslim-screaming-allahu-akbar-murders-one-injures-four-police-say-motive-unknown

http://www.pewforum.org/essay/the-growth-of-germanys-muslim-population/

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/10831/germany-islam-rising

http://www.billionbibles.org/sharia/muslims-in-germany.html

[Gunny]

See... this remark right here -^^^- is why logical people really can't talk to a liberal. It's like they're from another PLANET.

Did I say I was "PARANOID?" No.
Did I say I was "AFRAID?" No.
Is my "MIND MELTING?" No.
Is the "WORLD BURNING DOWN?" Yes, a good portion of it is.

Did I point something out about Germany that you ENTIRELY, COMPLETELY, UTTER MISSED? Yes.

Just like the two little leftist flower children bubble heads going to ride their bikes around the world to prove to people like ME how SAFE it is. Didn't get very far and they were mowed down with a car and stabbed to death. They too thought, oh golly gee, don't live in fear, there's nothing to be afraid of and we'll PROVE IT, and we all know how that turned out. It's people like you that march head long into danger living in your lala land of milk and honey thinking the world is a safe place, you can go anywhere, do anything, and nothing, EVER, will happen to you, because everything is FIIIIIIIINE! If those two bicycle flower children had listened to you, they'd STILL BE DEAD. If they had listened to me, they'd be ALIVE, had they taken my advice. So am I going to listen to a little ass clown like YOU? NO.

What you MISSED, little Pete, was the point about the cultural destruction of Germany by Merkel flooding the country with MUSLIM garbage from third world SHIT HOLES. You FAIL to look at the bigger picture. You just see a chance to start talking your SHIT and take it. I'm sure the people that went to work the morning of 9/11 thought, oh there's nothing to fear, nothing is going to happen.

The word here is "TREPIDATION." I don't have VICTIM tattooed on my forehead like you do.

The other reason I pause is why would I want to spend my money in a nation that pollutes it's culture, it's towns and cities, it's heritage and identity with muslim trash from M.E. shit holes that don't assimilate and bring nothing but violence, death and destruction?

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/01/1000-muslims-screaming-allahu-akbar-set-fire-to-germanys-oldest-church-on-new-years-eve

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/07/germany-muslim-screaming-allahu-akbar-murders-one-injures-four-police-say-motive-unknown

http://www.pewforum.org/essay/the-growth-of-germanys-muslim-population/

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/10831/germany-islam-rising

http://www.billionbibles.org/sharia/muslims-in-germany.html
I would ask Darin. Me personally? I'm not going somewhere that has opened its doors to ragheads and let them run the asylum. Germany's PC laws are too weird for me. There are just some places I'm not going.

I got off the boat ONE TIME and went into Dubai. After passing through 2 rings of security armed to the gills with .50s, then riding in an exposed bus to town where the tallest thing would have been a blade a grass for MILES and thinking the whole time "If I was a raghead with a RPG ...."... Sitting duck. No thanks. Every other time I got off the boat in the ME and Africa I was armed to the teeth.

Afraid?:rolleyes: I don't call common sense fear. I didn't used to go to the gator farm in Miami and walk amongst the crocs at chow time either :rolleyes:

[Elessar]

Accept Germans. Scary lot they are.

Accept? I do accept...my Dad's family came from there.

If you meant except, you are dreaming again and talking out of your ass once more.

[darin]

If people travel here, they travel for themselves - they do not travel to make a political point supporting the government. I live in a place that has more US Citizens living outside the USA than any other place on the planet. If anyone visits, they visit here to see amazing history, beautiful, kind people and drink wonderful beverages. I'd host anyone who cares to visit - just drop me a PM. Free lodging too :)

Must like dogs. And a cat.

[pete311]

If people travel here, they travel for themselves - they do not travel to make a political point supporting the government. I live in a place that has more US Citizens living outside the USA than any other place on the planet. If anyone visits, they visit here to see amazing history, beautiful, kind people and drink wonderful beverages. I'd host anyone who cares to visit - just drop me a PM. Free lodging too :)

Must like dogs. And a cat.

Next time I'm in Europe I'll hit you up. Could be next summer.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

If people travel here, they travel for themselves - they do not travel to make a political point supporting the government.I'll bet some do... like little Pete.


I live in a place that has more US Citizens living outside the USA than any other place on the planet.
That's reassuring.


If anyone visits, they visit here to see amazing history, beautiful, kind people and drink wonderful beverages.
Yes, it would have been wonderful to visit Germany like ten years ago before Merkel flooded the country with NOT beautiful, kind people.


I'd host anyone who cares to visit - just drop me a PM. Free lodging too.
I wouldn't host anyone that said they were going to "HIT ME UP."

I haven't totally discarded the idea, but I am wary. Just my nature.

[Drummond]

I'll bet some do... like little Pete.


That's reassuring.


Yes, it would have been wonderful to visit Germany like ten years ago before Merkel flooded the country with NOT beautiful, kind people.


I wouldn't host anyone that said they were going to "HIT ME UP."

I haven't totally discarded the idea, but I am wary. Just my nature.

There's a simple point that needs to be made, though, and one already mentioned. If you do visit Germany (or almost any EU country), you'll definitely need to watch what you say. Along with high immigration rates of 'undesirables', comes a 'PC' climate suited to it all. Speak out in an un-approved of manner, and I think you'll be lucky if the result just stops as an argument.

In my country, we have 'hatespeech' laws. Express disapproval of creeds such as Islam beyond a certain degree, and you risk arrest.

I don't know if Germany is the same. It might well be, though. Darin may need to advise.

[darin]

There's a simple point that needs to be made, though, and one already mentioned. If you do visit Germany (or almost any EU country), you'll definitely need to watch what you say. Along with high immigration rates of 'undesirables', comes a 'PC' climate suited to it all. Speak out in an un-approved of manner, and I think you'll be lucky if the result just stops as an argument.

In my country, we have 'hatespeech' laws. Express disapproval of creeds such as Islam beyond a certain degree, and you risk arrest.

I don't know if Germany is the same. It might well be, though. Darin may need to advise.

Watch what you say to whom? Really, as a tourist, it's all about experiencing the country and culture.

Here's Germany today - Drank a beer in the courtyard of a castle overlooking a beautiful, quaint city
:)

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11640&d=1534607554

[High_Plains_Drifter]

A large portion of why I'd visit Germany, other than the beer and history, would be just to meet Darin, who I think is a solid dude, got his shit together and I believe would make an awesome host and tour guide.

Course I or anyone else could just wait until he moves back to America I suppose, but I'm a WWII history buff. Would love to visit places like the Wolf's Den, the Berghof, even Auschwitz. As an empath I can't even imagine what I'd feel there. My emotions would probably be off the charts. I hear you can visit Goebbels' cabin too, although it's a rather large place to be called a cabin.

[Elessar]

When Dad was stationed in Lakeheath England, they sometimes flew into
what was then West Germany or occasionally Berlin. That was in the mid 60's.
He said that what was not wrecked in the two World Wars was gorgeous.
His immediate family was from Vienna Austria, by the way. There is still
a candy factory there in our name, and was owned by his Granduncle.

I wish I could tour and see the old castles of Europe and some of the
fine architecture there, but I doubt that will happen.

[Drummond]

Watch what you say to whom? Really, as a tourist, it's all about experiencing the country and culture.

Here's Germany today - Drank a beer in the courtyard of a castle overlooking a beautiful, quaint city
:)

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11640&d=1534607554

I almost didn't reply, because I can't speak for how things are in Germany.

I can only say that, in my country, the reply to your question would've been obvious. You'd watch what you were saying, in public, in front of anyone who could obviously take offence at, for example, anti-Islamic comments, choosing to interpret them as 'incitement to hatred'.

https://www.revolvy.com/page/Racial-and-Religious-Hatred-Act-2006


At the general election, the Labour Party confirmed that, were it to be re-elected, it would bring in a Bill to outlaw incitement to religious hatred: "It remains our firm intention to give people of all faiths the same protection against incitement to hatred on the basis of their religion. We will legislate to outlaw it and will continue the dialogue we have started with faith groups from all backgrounds about how best to balance protection, tolerance and free speech".

You'll note that last sentence. It basically says that 'free speech' is fine, so long as the freedom of expression involved weighs out well against other factors, such as 'protection and tolerance'.

In other words, others decide what is or is not 'acceptable' free speech. The 'unacceptable' version is punishable in law.

[Noir]

This thread is so wildly off base it’s borderline hilarious.

I’m glad we have Darin popping in to try and give some sanity and perspective on Germany, meanwhile Drummonds here trying to make the U.K. sound like something altogether unfamiliar ^,^

[SassyLady]

Never in my wildest dream did I ever think a bunch of tough guy military men would be afraid to visit Germany. Truly amazing and pathetic times we live in.

The reason these tough military men are still alive to post in this forum is because they trust their gut instincts. There's a difference between paranoia and prudence.

[Black Diamond]

Accept Germans. Scary lot they are.
Except the people we are concerned about in this thread aren't Germans. No matter how many times Merkel says they are.

[Drummond]

This thread is so wildly off base it’s borderline hilarious.

I’m glad we have Darin popping in to try and give some sanity and perspective on Germany, meanwhile Drummonds here trying to make the U.K. sound like something altogether unfamiliar ^,^

Indeed ?

Perhaps Northern Ireland has different laws altogether ... but, in this case, I doubt it.

These things are arranged 'stealthily'. Naturally, 'good' reasons are offered for the introduction of legislation, frequently having very little to do with the true motivation and intent behind them. Nonetheless, certain legislation DOES exist, and DOES have its effect.

Noir, I invite you to show me that the following is 'fiction' ....

https://www.revolvy.com/page/Racial-and-Religious-Hatred-Act-2006


The Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006 (c. 1) is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom which creates an offence in England and Wales of inciting hatred against a person on the grounds of their religion. The Act was the Labour Government's third attempt to bring in this offence: provisions were originally included as part of the Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security Bill in 2001, but were dropped after objections from the House of Lords. The measure was again brought forward as part of the Serious Organised Crime and Police Bill in 2004-5, but was again dropped in order to get the body of that Bill passed before the 2005 general election.

The Act is notable because two amendments made in the House of Lords failed to be overturned by the Government in the House of Commons.

Most of the Act came into force on 1 October 2007.

Previous attempts at legislation

After the terrorist attacks of 11 September 2001, the Government in Britain brought forward the Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security Bill. Clause 38 of that Bill would have had the effect of amending Part 3 of the Public Order Act 1986 to extend the existing provisions on incitement to racial hatred to cover incitement to religious hatred. When the Bill reached the House of Lords, an amendment to remove the clause was passed by 240 votes to 141. The Commons reinstated the clause, but the Lords again removed it. Finally, the then Home Secretary, David Blunkett, accepted that the Commons had to accede to the Lords' insistence that the clause be left out of the Bill.

The government brought the proposal back before Parliament in the Serious Organised Crime and Police Bill in the Session leading up to the general election in May 2005. During the Lords debate on the relevant section of the Bill, on 5 April 2005 (the day on which the general election was called), the provision was removed. When the Bill returned to the Commons on 7 April, the Government announced that it was dropping the measure so as to secure the passage of the Bill as a whole before the Dissolution of Parliament .

At the general election, the Labour Party confirmed that, were it to be re-elected, it would bring in a Bill to outlaw incitement to religious hatred: "It remains our firm intention to give people of all faiths the same protection against incitement to hatred on the basis of their religion. We will legislate to outlaw it and will continue the dialogue we have started with faith groups from all backgrounds about how best to balance protection, tolerance and free speech".

Note the 'balance' intention. In other words, the right to free speech is 'balanced' against other 'considerations'.

I've seen it said on this forum that, with free speech, 'people have a right to be offended'. Here in the UK, our Left have legislated against it.

Try arguing vigorously against a Muslim, in public, on grounds of his or her religion. Said Muslim need only claim incitement to hatred on grounds of his religion to have you arrested.

Noir, you still want to argue against what you can see with your own eyes, and more, what you MUST know is true ?? Then tell me that Wikipedia is lying, here .....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_the_United_Kingdom


Hate speech laws in England and Wales are found in several statutes. Expressions of hatred toward someone on account of that person's colour, race, disability, nationality (including citizenship), ethnic or national origin, religion, gender identity, or sexual orientation is forbidden. Any communication which is threatening or abusive, and is intended to harass, alarm, or distress someone is forbidden. The penalties for hate speech include fines, imprisonment, or both.

Enough said, I think. Noir, I'll thank you to be more truthful and accurate in your offerings, here, in future.

QED.

[Noir]

Try arguing vigorously against a Muslim, in public, on grounds of his or her religion.

Is that what you do on a normal day? Or when on holiday? Or ever?

[pete311]

The reason these tough military men are still alive to post in this forum is because they trust their gut instincts. There's a difference between paranoia and prudence.

And that makes them some savant sages on every matter? Tell me, what is their gut instinct on the futures price of pork bellies tomorrow?

darin and Noir are the only sane people here. Visit Germany and don't think twice about it. There are few countries in the world safer than Germany.

[Gunny]

Here's the deal. Again ... I defer anyone wanting to visit Germany to speak with Darin since he lives there. MY comments are general from having lived in and visited more than a few foreign countries. The story/idea of a trip is getting lost for the politics.

It has been my experience that most foreign countries that attract tourists have "touristy" areas where tourists go, and generally include the sites tourists want to see. In most cases, unless you're just a flat-out, arrogant American asshole, they people in those areas are more tolerant and willing to ignore accidental slights and chalk it up to ignorance while collecting your money. Even in the ME they have certain places for international tourists to go (highly restrictive), but they exist. Even China hasn't dumped Hong Kong because of the tourist money it makes.

Those places are usually as safe as any. Venture off the beaten path, and your risk factor goes up. "The other side of the island" in Phuket, Thailand is NOT the tourist area on the beach.

Now if you want to make a political stance against the government, you'll probably get what you ask for. If you want to ride through ISIS territory on your bicycle? I refer you to the thread.

As for those too numb in the brain to accept the fact that people who are out to kill you and take your shit exist, PLEASE take an overseas vacation. You are wasting natural resources by breathing and Darwin awaits your arrival.

[Drummond]

Is that what you do on a normal day? Or when on holiday? Or ever?

Oh dear. I've proved you wrong and shown everyone here something of the truth of how our society works ... and you've consequently no counter-argument, or contrary evidence, to back up your position.

Well, quite. All you CAN do is go in for something diversionary, instead. Conceding you're wrong isn't something you will EVER do.

A pity. Not surprising, Noir. But, a pity, nonetheless.

[Drummond]

Here's the deal. Again ... I defer anyone wanting to visit Germany to speak with Darin since he lives there. MY comments are general from having lived in and visited more than a few foreign countries. The story/idea of a trip is getting lost for the politics.

It has been my experience that most foreign countries that attract tourists have "touristy" areas where tourists go, and generally include the sites tourists want to see. In most cases, unless you're just a flat-out, arrogant American asshole, they people in those areas are more tolerant and willing to ignore accidental slights and chalk it up to ignorance while collecting your money. Even in the ME they have certain places for international tourists to go (highly restrictive), but they exist. Even China hasn't dumped Hong Kong because of the tourist money it makes.

Those places are usually as safe as any. Venture off the beaten path, and your risk factor goes up. "The other side of the island" in Phuket, Thailand is NOT the tourist area on the beach.

Now if you want to make a political stance against the government, you'll probably get what you ask for. If you want to ride through ISIS territory on your bicycle? I refer you to the thread.

As for those too numb in the brain to accept the fact that people who are out to kill you and take your shit exist, PLEASE take an overseas vacation. You are wasting natural resources by breathing and Darwin awaits your arrival.

Very fair points.

Even so ... visit a foreign country, and, 'aligned to tourist needs' or not, such localities will still have native people in them and the laws of that country will still be in force. And - surely ! - the further down a restrictive 'PC' route any one country has gone, so those laws will restrict freedom of expression.

Try visiting Moscow, and getting into debates about Putin and his power-grabbing ways (to say nothing about Novichok 'adventurism'). See how long it is before such a visitor falls foul of the authorities ...

Germany, though ... I've no real idea what their society is like to visit, these days .. the last time I was in the Frankfurt area was back in the 1990's. Ancient history by today's standards.

[Gunny]

Very fair points.

Even so ... visit a foreign country, and, 'aligned to tourist needs' or not, such localities will still have native people in them and the laws of that country will still be in force. And - surely ! - the further down a restrictive 'PC' route any one country has gone, so those laws will restrict freedom of expression.

Try visiting Moscow, and getting into debates about Putin and his power-grabbing ways (to say nothing about Novichok 'adventurism'). See how long it is before such a visitor falls foul of the authorities ...

Germany, though ... I've no real idea what their society is like to visit, these days .. the last time I was in the Frankfurt area was back in the 1990's. Ancient history by today's standards.Oops. I left THAT out. You are correct, of course. You have to obey the laws of whatever country you are in. That was the rule when I was a kid as a military dependent and we got Status of Forces Agreement lectures ad nauseum when I was in the Marine Corps.

I take some things for granted. Manners is one. Everyone should have them.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

This thread is so wildly off base it’s borderline hilarious.

I’m glad we have Darin popping in to try and give some sanity and perspective on Germany, meanwhile Drummonds here trying to make the U.K. sound like something altogether unfamiliar ^,^
You some kind of expert on Germany? Spend a lot of time there have you?

I don't see any links providing any sort of rebuttal. I only see your insulting diatribe. Perhaps you should put more effort into some proof for a rebuttal than just running your mouth.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Visit Germany and don't think twice about it. There are few countries in the world safer than Germany.
You are an INCREDIBLY IGNORANT little twat...

Germany Travel Advisory

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/germany-travel-advisory.html

[darin]

Nobody can prevent a terror attack. Listed in that travel advisory are things to mitigate the risks...





Be aware of your surroundings when traveling to tourist locations and crowded public venues. Or avoid most of the touristy locations and let darin set up a terrific tour.
Follow the instructions of local authorities and darin.
Monitor local media for breaking events and adjust your plans based on new information. And ask darin to check with his sources because he's qualified to teach anti-terrorism courses to both mil and civ employees.
Enroll in the Smart Traveler Enrollment Program (https://step.state.gov/step/) (STEP (https://step.state.gov/step/)) to receive Alerts and make it easier to locate you in an emergency.
Follow the Department of State on Facebook (https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/germany-travel-advisory.html#ExternalPopup) and Twitter (https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/germany-travel-advisory.html#ExternalPopup).
Review the Crime and Safety Reports (https://www.osac.gov/Pages/ContentReports.aspx?cid=2&CatalogLocationId=35) for Germany.
U.S. citizens who travel abroad should always have a contingency plan for emergency situations. Review the Traveler’s Checklist (https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/go/checklist.html). Further, just trust darin to monitor what's going on and guide you to places that are not priority targets; go to popular places at non-peak days/times. Maintain situational awareness and follow your common sense and instincts.


Absolutely no more risky than touring detroit. I survived Detroit; I survived Iraq. I hosted Nukeman and Trigg and their son and I am quite sure they never felt any threats.

Ya know, on paper most places would have the same mitigation factors as listed above. The worrying about lack of free speech will be a non-issue. The 40,000+ US here have not had a terror or extremist attack against them since probably 1985. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_Rhein-Main_Air_Base_bombing)

[Noir]

Oh dear. I've proved you wrong and shown everyone here something of the truth of how our society works ... and you've consequently no counter-argument, or contrary evidence, to back up your position.

Well, quite. All you CAN do is go in for something diversionary, instead. Conceding you're wrong isn't something you will EVER do.

A pity. Not surprising, Noir. But, a pity, nonetheless.


You can get arrested in the U.K. under the ‘Race and Hatred relations act’ of course,
in likely much the same way as you can get arrested in Germany for denying the holocaust, but I don’t think that would impair someone’s holiday here, or Germany. Unless you’re looking for it.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

You can get arrested in the U.K. under the ‘Race and Hatred relations act’ of course,
in likely much the same way as you can get arrested in Germany for denying the holocaust, but I don’t think that would impair someone’s holiday here, or Germany. Unless you’re looking for it.
You people are crippled by insane political correctness, censorship and fascism. You are protecting the very thing that will eventually destroy you if it's not stopped, namely, the islamic influx.

Weird how so much of the world, even some there in Europe see it and you don't.

[Noir]

You some kind of expert on Germany? Spend a lot of time there have you?

I don't see any links providing any sort of rebuttal. I only see your insulting diatribe. Perhaps you should put more effort into some proof for a rebuttal than just running your mouth.

Apparently I’ve spent more time in Germany than you, haven’t been murdered yet. Pretty good standard of ice hockey too.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Apparently I’ve spent more time in Germany than you, haven’t been murdered yet. Pretty good standard of ice hockey too.
Apparently you've provided no proof what so ever you've ever been to Germany, and you're still so politically correct you have no idea how foolish you sound to us Americans.

[darin]

You can get arrested in the U.K. under the ‘Race and Hatred relations act’ of course,
in likely much the same way as you can get arrested in Germany for denying the holocaust, but I don’t think that would impair someone’s holiday here, or Germany. Unless you’re looking for it.

My daughter is a staunch libertarian and hates the draconian, fascist restricts of most of the UK. Yet she LOVED London, and will attend university, in all likelihood, in Northern Ireland, as you know.


My point - and probably your point - is this: For people wanting to come and engage in learning the culture, food, history - for wanting to spend time touching historic sites, monuments, and buildings - Europe is an incredible destination.

Some of the realities I see: Isis is not blowing up traffic jams - absolutely vulnerable folks. They are not walking around our malls detonating bombs. They are not accosting people with any regularity. But shit happens.

Last september in Milan I walked out of a mall area near the main cathedral. One of the public trash bins was smoking as if something was burning inside. As I passed i stuck my head over but could see nothing. I moved my daughter and friend quite rapidly away - walking as fast as we could without looking like we were in a panic. Nothing came of the smoking bin, but we were right to un-ass the area asap.

My daughter walking through Amsterdam passed a woman wearing much-much too heavy of a coat for the summer. The woman had a large handbag and she was scuttling along staring at the ground. My daughter and her friend turned right down a side street and then left to put a city block of buildings between her and the woman. Nobody panicked and nobody was truly scared - but she did that simply because her spidey-sense was tingling. Nothing came of it.

When I have guests we travel mid-week as much as we can, and we lay-low on weekends if we can. We see sites at the extreme hours - either right at opening or end of day - but we try to avoid mid-day rushes. That's partly because i hate crowds :)

So - I'm trying to say, if somebody comes to Germany, specifically, they have to fear nothing more than their own fear. Common-sense awareness is the only measure required to ensure a safe trip. But that is not dissimilar to probably every trip to any destination.

[Noir]

My point - and probably your point - is this: For people wanting to come and engage in learning the culture, food, history - for wanting to spend time touching historic sites, monuments, and buildings - Europe is an incredible destination.

...

So - I'm trying to say, if somebody comes to Germany, specifically, they have to fear nothing more than their own fear. Common-sense awareness is the only measure required to ensure a safe trip. But that is not dissimilar to probably every trip to any destination.

Spot on.

[Gunny]

Nobody can prevent a terror attack. Listed in that travel advisory are things to mitigate the risks...

[/LIST]

Absolutely no more risky than touring detroit. I survived Detroit; I survived Iraq. I hosted Nukeman and Trigg and their son and I am quite sure they never felt any threats.

Ya know, on paper most places would have the same mitigation factors as listed above. The worrying about lack of free speech will be a non-issue. The 40,000+ US here have not had a terror or extremist attack against them since probably 1985. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_Rhein-Main_Air_Base_bombing)I think you've overused Darin's name a tad ...:laugh:

[Black Diamond]

I think you've overused Darin's name a tad ...:laugh:
He's not used to this much attention.

[darin]

I think you've overused Darin's name a tad ...:laugh:

Darin is a name
anyone would
rush to use
in every opportunity
now through eternity

[darin]

He's not used to this much attention.

i give myself attention all the time. I'm single :(

[Gunny]

i give myself attention all the time. I'm single :(Underrated. A preferred state of being for me. :)

[Drummond]

My daughter is a staunch libertarian and hates the draconian, fascist restricts of most of the UK. Yet she LOVED London, and will attend university, in all likelihood, in Northern Ireland, as you know.


My point - and probably your point - is this: For people wanting to come and engage in learning the culture, food, history - for wanting to spend time touching historic sites, monuments, and buildings - Europe is an incredible destination.

Some of the realities I see: Isis is not blowing up traffic jams - absolutely vulnerable folks. They are not walking around our malls detonating bombs. They are not accosting people with any regularity. But shit happens.

Last september in Milan I walked out of a mall area near the main cathedral. One of the public trash bins was smoking as if something was burning inside. As I passed i stuck my head over but could see nothing. I moved my daughter and friend quite rapidly away - walking as fast as we could without looking like we were in a panic. Nothing came of the smoking bin, but we were right to un-ass the area asap.

My daughter walking through Amsterdam passed a woman wearing much-much too heavy of a coat for the summer. The woman had a large handbag and she was scuttling along staring at the ground. My daughter and her friend turned right down a side street and then left to put a city block of buildings between her and the woman. Nobody panicked and nobody was truly scared - but she did that simply because her spidey-sense was tingling. Nothing came of it.

When I have guests we travel mid-week as much as we can, and we lay-low on weekends if we can. We see sites at the extreme hours - either right at opening or end of day - but we try to avoid mid-day rushes. That's partly because i hate crowds :)

So - I'm trying to say, if somebody comes to Germany, specifically, they have to fear nothing more than their own fear. Common-sense awareness is the only measure required to ensure a safe trip. But that is not dissimilar to probably every trip to any destination.

So long as you don't break the law .. sure ... including any 'hatespeech' ones ....

[Drummond]

Apparently I’ve spent more time in Germany than you, haven’t been murdered yet. Pretty good standard of ice hockey too.

True.

Then again, if they, too, have 'hatespeech' laws, with your PC outlook, you'd never have come into conflict with their laws ...

[darin]

So long as you don't break the law .. sure ... including any 'hatespeech' ones ....

...i don't talk to anyone about anything while i'm travelling. I am simply trying to blend-in, and absorb the adventure :)