Make Men Masculine Again

[darin]

When you try to make men more like women you get MORE toxic masculinity.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-kxdyJs6y8

[SassyLady]

I love masculinity ... :coffee:

[Noir]

There are a lot of contradictions, and otherwise odd points in that very short video.

For example it describes ‘positive masculinity’ as fatherhood, being a parent to their child etc, which sounds reasonable. It then describes what masculinity looks like with examples like ‘working long hours to provide for family’ and ‘going to war’.

If you want a sure way to not be there for your child, working long hours and going to war are two of the most effective ways to not be around.

[darin]

its not a checklist. It's giving the kinds of things. To give examples.

[Noir]

Fair, but of all the examples they could have chose (and repeat a few times) they went with contradictory ones, which is odd.

[darin]

Fair, but of all the examples they could have chose (and repeat a few times) they went with contradictory ones, which is odd.

i heard no contradictions within any context of the words she used.

[Noir]

i heard no contradictions within any context of the words she used.

Then we have very different readings of the same presentation.

Also looking up the creator of this video - their website carries the disclaimer “PRAGER UNIVERSITY IS NOT AN ACCREDITED ACADEMIC INSTITUTION AND DOES NOT OFFER CERTIFICATIONS OR DIPLOMAS” which is a weird sort of thing to have to clarify =/

[Gunny]

There are a lot of contradictions, and otherwise odd points in that very short video.

For example it describes ‘positive masculinity’ as fatherhood, being a parent to their child etc, which sounds reasonable. It then describes what masculinity looks like with examples like ‘working long hours to provide for family’ and ‘going to war’.

If you want a sure way to not be there for your child, working long hours and going to war are two of the most effective ways to not be around.You speak as if you've been there :rolleyes:

How about the example you set for your children/family? There are ideals more important than self, and you are willing to walk the walk when it comes to defending them? And if you have to leave home to do it, sacrifices have to be made and the rest learn to step up.

I got a son-in-law that's just "there". Big deal. He thinks because he goes to work every day he's "the man". Except he does little to nothing around the home. He just sits on his throne and criticizes. One's presence doesn't mean a thing if it doesn't mean a thing.

There's no doubt who "the man" is around here. Everybody knows who it is and I lead by example. I ain't got time for wannabe's that claim the title but can't wear it.

[Noir]

You speak as if you've been there :rolleyes:

Been where?


How about the example you set for your children/family? There are ideals more important than self, and you are willing to walk the walk when it comes to defending them? And if you have to leave home to do it, sacrifices have to be made and the rest learn to step up.

I got a son-in-law that's just "there". Big deal. He thinks because he goes to work every day he's "the man". Except he does little to nothing around the home. He just sits on his throne and criticizes. One's presence doesn't mean a thing if it doesn't mean a thing.

There's no doubt who "the man" is around here. Everybody knows who it is and I lead by example. I ain't got time for wannabe's that claim the title but can't wear it.

I think those sentiments are equally important whether a mother or a father, the sex or gender of the parent is not the relevant differential.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Going to be tough to make men more masculine again when testosterone levels have been steadily dropping, and evidently they don't know why. But it appears that men are becoming more feminine for some unforseen reason.


Declining testosterone levels in men not part of normal aging

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/120623144944.htm

[Gunny]

Been where?



I think those sentiments are equally important whether a mother or a father, the sex or gender of the parent is not the relevant differential.Anywhere.

You are incorrect and part of what is wrong with society in general now. Males have a role. Females have a role. They are biological. Brainwashing the biology out of people has led to nothing but one big clusterf*ck. Males don't even know what they're supposed to be anymore. They've let PC dictate to them for so long it's just stuck in their heads.

All of this catering to wimps makes me ill.

[SassyLady]

There are a lot of contradictions, and otherwise odd points in that very short video.

For example it describes ‘positive masculinity’ as fatherhood, being a parent to their child etc, which sounds reasonable. It then describes what masculinity looks like with examples like ‘working long hours to provide for family’ and ‘going to war’.

If you want a sure way to not be there for your child, working long hours and going to war are two of the most effective ways to not be around.

Being a father is more than presence. It's about being supportive, role modeling, team member, etc. Which can still be accomplished without being physically present. There's a difference is single parenting and co-parenting.

[aboutime]

There are a lot of contradictions, and otherwise odd points in that very short video.

For example it describes ‘positive masculinity’ as fatherhood, being a parent to their child etc, which sounds reasonable. It then describes what masculinity looks like with examples like ‘working long hours to provide for family’ and ‘going to war’.

If you want a sure way to not be there for your child, working long hours and going to war are two of the most effective ways to not be around.

He appears to be one of those Contradictions, and otherwise Odd points. After reading above. I AM ASSURED...Noir would prefer being a Socialist, in a Socialist World that would allow (him?) to always stay home, never get his hands dirty, break out into a sweat, and love wearing PINK while picking flowers in the garden with the LADIES BOOK CLUB in his? neighborhood.

In other words, IMO. Noir has a long way to travel before understanding what MANHOOD really means, or stands for today.
Somehow...the one word that I keep hearing with this subject is..."WUSS!":laugh:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcScQ8MUBfsCb56I3PdWAWVlm85exQK1R cuZ0DsSOJmwCalO5ewuXQ

[Noir]

Being a father is more than presence. It's about being supportive, role modeling, team member, etc. Which can still be accomplished without being physically present. There's a difference is single parenting and co-parenting.

Sure, but when you look at the awful statistics for veterans - how many suffer from depression, PTSD, how many commit suicide etc. I don’t think it’s controversial to consider that a negative influence on the veterans children, through no fault of their own.

[pete311]

masculinity is a cultural construct. if you think your version is the only correct one, you're just simple minded

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Oh look... two little sissy leftists trying to out sissy leftist each other... :lol:

[Black Diamond]

Oh look... two little sissy leftists trying to out sissy leftist each other... :lol:
And here I thought a kinder gentler pale was emerging. Glad I thought wrong. :cool:

[jimnyc]

:gay: is the new way.

[aboutime]

masculinity is a cultural construct. if you think your version is the only correct one, you're just simple minded

petey. You need to grow up before you have the credibility to come here and preach about masculinity of any kind. As for the "Simple Minded"...good for you, saying that as you look at yourself in that Mirror.

[CSM]

Sure, but when you look at the awful statistics for veterans - how many suffer from depression, PTSD, how many commit suicide etc. I don’t think it’s controversial to consider that a negative influence on the veterans children, through no fault of their own.

well thank god no one else other than veterans have those problems....especially women!

Now I'm depressed...I think my PTSD is kicking in too... *sarcasm folks*

By the way, I never really worried about "being masculine" ... I am what I am and pretty damn happy about it too.

[Gunny]

Sure, but when you look at the awful statistics for veterans - how many suffer from depression, PTSD, how many commit suicide etc. I don’t think it’s controversial to consider that a negative influence on the veterans children, through no fault of their own.Like I said ... "anywhere".

How many came back from a war, ended up a single parent and raised a daughter who is an Army vet and now elementary school teacher?

Seems to me what I got out of the deal was a better appreciation for cruelty, inhumanity and the value of human life. You read too much propaganda and don't know a damned thing about what you're talking about at times. THIS would be one of those times.

[Gunny]

masculinity is a cultural construct. if you think your version is the only correct one, you're just simple mindedMasculinity is a biological fact. The construct is thinking it is anything else.

[SassyLady]

Sure, but when you look at the awful statistics for veterans - how many suffer from depression, PTSD, how many commit suicide etc. I don’t think it’s controversial to consider that a negative influence on the veterans children, through no fault of their own.

Noir ... I have been diagnosed with PTSD (trauma experienced in youth), hyper vigilance and some other issues and I was able to raise a daughter and two stepsons. My children are more successful than I am and their children are on the same path.

Yes, some veterans have issues but not the majority. PTSD is not singular to military.
Children of parents with PTSD are not anymore at risk than civilians with their issues (opioid overdoses).

[SassyLady]

well thank god no one else other than veterans have those problems....especially women!

Now I'm depressed...I think my PTSD is kicking in too... *sarcasm folks*

By the way, I never really worried about "being masculine" ... I am what I am and pretty damn happy about it too.

Me too!

[CSM]

Pete is not entirely wrong. There are cultural differences that define what is masculine. In some societies, one must slay a lion with a spear before being considered a man. I have never slain a lion with anything. Not sure what you call it if a woman slays a lion with a spear.

Our society has bastardized the definition of gender so badly, I have no idea what constitutes masculinity... I am not sure I want to know either.

I can only speak for myself and state that it's not about clothes, hair (or any other form of appearance), or material possessions. It is how one carries themselves, what they do, how they interact with and treat others. I have seen males that are 5'4" and more masculine than any 6' 7" guy with bulging muscles. I have seen men with more compassion, integrity and self discipline that are far more masculine than any media hyped "perfect male".

I don't have a check list of what constitutes masculinity, but I know it when I see it.

[darin]

Sure, but when you look at the awful statistics for veterans - how many suffer from depression, PTSD, how many commit suicide etc. I don’t think it’s controversial to consider that a negative influence on the veterans children, through no fault of their own.

wow. I dont even know where to begin....unreal...I will never ever understand how you interpret things.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

A man shoulders his responsibilities, takes care of his family, keeps intact his core principles, fights when it is necessary and
takes pride in his ancestry and the life he makes.
Once this was taught by most families to their children , especially so here in the South.
However, these last 40/50 years that life's lesson has not been well taught as it once was - in fact it has been ripped to shreds by certain elements in this nation that want to remake this nation.
No need for me to name those elements , for if you do not know by now, then it is no use telling you and I feel sorry for ya..-Tyr

[SassyLady]

Noir ... what masculine traits do you have that you are proud to have and which ones are you ashamed of?

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Hmmm... interesting... this website basically describes the traits of a liberal as a CHILD... https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/g201212/what-is-a-real-man/


BOY VERSUS MAN


A child can often be . . .


rude.
self-centered.
focused on having fun.
ruled by his emotions.

A real man endeavors to be . . .


respectful.​—Romans 12:10 (https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/romans/12/#v45012010).
self-sacrificing.​—1 Corinthians 10:24 (https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/1-corinthians/10/#v46010024).
responsible.​—Galatians 6:5 (https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/galatians/6/#v48006005).
in control of his emotions.​—Proverbs 16:32 (https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/proverbs/16/#v20016032).

[Gunny]

Pete is not entirely wrong. There are cultural differences that define what is masculine. In some societies, one must slay a lion with a spear before being considered a man. I have never slain a lion with anything. Not sure what you call it if a woman slays a lion with a spear.

Our society has bastardized the definition of gender so badly, I have no idea what constitutes masculinity... I am not sure I want to know either.

I can only speak for myself and state that it's not about clothes, hair (or any other form of appearance), or material possessions. It is how one carries themselves, what they do, how they interact with and treat others. I have seen males that are 5'4" and more masculine than any 6' 7" guy with bulging muscles. I have seen men with more compassion, integrity and self discipline that are far more masculine than any media hyped "perfect male".

I don't have a check list of what constitutes masculinity, but I know it when I see it.Cool?

Oh, and probably "ma'am" :)

[SassyLady]

Cool?

Oh, and probably "ma'am" :)

We prefer "goddess". :slap:

[FakeNewsSux]

Cool?

Oh, and probably "ma'am" :)

Damn straight, Gunny!

[Noir]

well thank god no one else other than veterans have those problems....especially women!

I did not say (or mean to imply) that an issue like PTSD was exclusive to veterans, or men, but I do not think it is disagreeable that certain professions, like the military, are more prone to causing PTSD than others.



By the way, I never really worried about "being masculine" ... I am what I am and pretty damn happy about it too.

Spot on.
The problem is a lot of people care about others masculinity or perceived lack of. And where someone like yourself will likely get a pass for saying you don’t worry about “being masculine” it would be treated very differently when I say it.

[Noir]

Noir ... what masculine traits do you have that you are proud to have and which ones are you ashamed of?

I think the question is loaded, with a presupposition of “traits”.

Which I have no doubt is an unsatisfactory answer for you.

[CSM]

....


Spot on.
The problem is a lot of people care about others masculinity or perceived lack of. And where someone like yourself will likely get a pass for saying you don’t worry about “being masculine” it would be treated very differently when I say it.

You are probably correct. I have no doubt that some folks have a preconceived notion of what "masculinity" is supposed to look like...rightly or wrongly.

[Elessar]

Sure, but when you look at the awful statistics for veterans - how many suffer from depression, PTSD, how many commit suicide etc. I don’t think it’s controversial to consider that a negative influence on the veterans children, through no fault of their own.

PTSD does not just happen with veterans.

It can be with all First Responders.....Cops, Firefighters, Ambulance crews, Lifeguards

I had 88 people die on one watch day in a plane crash...Alaska 261:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Airlines_Flight_261

What have you ever done of significance?

[Black Diamond]

PTSD does not just happen with veterans.

It can be with all First Responders.....Cops, Firefighters, Ambulance crews, Lifeguards

I had 88 people die on one watch day in a plane crash...Alaska 261:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Airlines_Flight_261

What have you ever done of significance?
I have heard that rape and abuse victims can suffer from it as well. (Shrug)

[Gunny]

I did not say (or mean to imply) that an issue like PTSD was exclusive to veterans, or men, but I do not think it is disagreeable that certain professions, like the military, are more prone to causing PTSD than others.




Spot on.
The problem is a lot of people care about others masculinity or perceived lack of. And where someone like yourself will likely get a pass for saying you don’t worry about “being masculine” it would be treated very differently when I say it.

You can get PTSD from being beaten as a child. By a vet OR a civilian. "POST-TRAUMATIC STRESS". Adverb and verb. They mean something. ANY first responder is as likely to have PTSD as a combat vet. Or as pointed out previously, ANYONE traumatized to the point of psychological/emotional stress/abuse.

I don't care for people that abuse the label to get a handout anymore than I care for it being used to lump people into a single file that says "bad". Like anything else our society loves to abuse for its own agenda, the people hurt by such labeling practices, marginalizing the issue, are the ones that actually need the help.

[Elessar]

I have heard that rape and abuse victims can suffer from it as well. (Shrug)

Yes. That is a fact.