Our forums, other forums, and ability to read PM's

[jimnyc]

It's been brought to my attention that another board that will remain nameless, where a bunch of us used to gather, has been involved in reading PM's of their members.

I completely disagree with this utter lack of discretion and want to reassure every member here that no pm's will ever be read by staff at this board.

We run things properly here and completely respect our members, and will not lower ourselves to sneaking in the back door of your personal data.

That's all, carry on!

[KitchenKitten99]

i don't go over there much anymore anyway. i like it here better. now that i know about the above mentioned issue, not likely to go at all anymore.

[jimnyc]

Well, a few members from here were supposedly banned there for sending PM's to their friends. The reason given for their banishment was that they sent links to this board to said users to keep in contact...

How would one know that unless the PM itself was read by someone? Is it possible a user forwarded the PM to staff there? Doubtful, since the recipient of said PM hasn't even been online in ages and hasn't read the PM yet. So how else could staff have known the contents of said PM's?

[Dilloduck]

Well, a few members from here were supposedly banned there for sending PM's to their friends. The reason given for their banishment was that they sent links to this board to said users to keep in contact...

How would one know that unless the PM itself was read by someone? Is it possible a user forwarded the PM to staff there? Doubtful, since the recipient of said PM hasn't even been online in ages and hasn't read the PM yet. So how else could staff have known the contents of said PM's?

Honest question
Is it even possible for the admin or mods to read PMs ?

[CockySOB]

Honest question
Is it even possible for the admin or mods to read PMs ?

Should be. There are modifications and supplemental programs out there for most community-based software solutions which give the person with the right password access to everything. Remember, forums are simply relational databases in a hosted environment. Anyone with even minimal skill could pull data from the database that they want to see.

[darin]

Honest question
Is it even possible for the admin or mods to read PMs ?

The short answer is 'No - Not here'.

The long answer is 'I bet anyone sufficicently motivated could access the data base and read what they want. On the internet, few things are REALLY private.'

[Mr. P]

The short answer is 'No - Not here'.

The long answer is 'I bet anyone sufficicently motivated could access the data base and read what they want. On the internet, few things are REALLY private.'

Not 'anyone' you'd have to be in the admin loop, a hacker wouldn't waste their time or give a shit about a PMs on a board. Really.

[darin]

Not 'anyone' you'd have to be in the admin loop, a hacker wouldn't waste their time or give a shit about a PMs on a board. Really.

But if they did give a shit, they probably 'could'.

[CockySOB]

Not 'anyone' you'd have to be in the admin loop, a hacker wouldn't waste their time or give a shit about a PMs on a board. Really.

True enough. Most web hosting companies prefer to restrict access to the database server software either to specific known-good addresses, or to restrict all addresses and require the software to use local access via the network loopback address. The chances that a random hacker could directly access the database is minimal as long as basic security procedures are enacted. It's far more probable that a hacker would find an exploit in the application software which could bypass planned security measures.

[5stringJeff]

Jim does not have this feature installed here, nor is he interested in doing so.

[Dilloduck]

Jim does not have this feature installed here, nor is he interested in doing so.

but personal reputation comments are available for all mods and admins to see ?

[darin]

but personal reputation comments are available for all mods and admins to see ?

Yup. But's it not 'made available' - Admins/Mods can research the comments thru the control panel. We explained that on the other board. It serves a valid purpose. Rep points and comments aren't PERSONAL. Reputation is designed to comment on a PUBLICLY - VIEWABLE comment. The commentary to public comments are not personal. If a member wants to have sex-talk, make drug deals, or hit lists w/ other members thru the REP system, they may wanna think about getting a room. ;)

[jimnyc]

Honest question
Is it even possible for the admin or mods to read PMs ?

Yes, but not without installing addition modifications to your server. This would be viewable eith via FTP for straight files, or in the AdminCP if it was installed directly. Staff here has been offered master login/password for both to verify if necessary.

There are 'hacks' as they call them available on vbulletin.org that will grant access to reading PM's, and has NEVER been installed on my servers and never will be.

I can't verify for the other site, but the reasoning for so many bannings for sending stuff in PM makes it apparent...

[Dilloduck]

Yup. But's it not 'made available' - Admins/Mods can research the comments thru the control panel. We explained that on the other board. It serves a valid purpose.

Which is ?

[darin]

Which is ?

So we can keep-tabs on you.

:eek:


Rep points and comments aren't PERSONAL. Reputation is designed to comment on a PUBLICLY - VIEWABLE comment. The commentary to public comments are not personal. If a member wants to have sex-talk, make drug deals, or hit lists w/ other members thru the REP system, they may wanna think about getting a room.

[darin]

Jim - I just read that PM Jillian sent to OCA - I really am surprised to see what they said about poor (Name Removed for Privacy)

[Dilloduck]

So we can keep-tabs on you.

:eek:

Might be nice to warn people that thier private responses to public comments can be read by admins and mods.

[jimnyc]

Might be nice to warn people that thier private responses to public comments can be read by admins and mods.

Wasn't sure this was necessary to announce. This is a standard feature of vbulletin and no modifications were done at all. Every VB install out there has this ability. While I see your point, we certainly can't announce every standard function of the board.

[Mr. P]

Odd my ban over there was following several PMs informing others of this site.

Coincidence? :dunno: You be the judge.

[The ClayTaurus]

Might be nice to warn people that thier private responses to public comments can be read by admins and mods.It's been said multiple times now. Reputation comments are not private.

[darin]

Might be nice to warn people that thier private responses to public comments can be read by admins and mods.

:shrug: - If so, we'll also warn them that ANYTHING they post online may not be private.

[Dilloduck]

Wasn't sure this was necessary to announce. This is a standard feature of vbulletin and no modifications were done at all. Every VB install out there has this ability. While I see your point, we certainly can't announce every standard function of the board.

Sorry--I'm just not an expert on vbulletin and have been chastized for comments made in what I thought was private. Just sharing the info to help others avoid the same fate.

[jimnyc]

Sorry--I'm just not an expert on vbulletin and have been chastized for comments made in what I thought was private. Just sharing the info to help others avoid the same fate.

Being chastised by the receiving member is one thing, or if an admin/mod received a complaint - but we certainly don't go through reputation logs just for the hell of it.

[darin]

I do all the time - mostly to see what Dillo says behind my back

:P

:D

[Dilloduck]

Being chastised by the receiving member is one thing, or if an admin/mod received a complaint - but we certainly don't go through reputation logs just for the hell of it.

It wasn't done by the receiving member----it was done by a mod friend of the receiving member.

[Mr. P]

Wasn't sure this was necessary to announce. This is a standard feature of vbulletin and no modifications were done at all. Every VB install out there has this ability. While I see your point, we certainly can't announce every standard function of the board.

What is standard, seeing the rep comments or also seeing PMs?

[darin]

It wasn't done by the receiving member----it was done by a mod friend of the receiving member.


We take complaints. Sometimes users say things like "That person is sending me BULLSHIT thru the Rep system!"

As nobody can 'forward' Rep comments (as they can with harrassing PMs), sometimes we'll look-see for ourselves. If you were chastised for sending harrassing Rep comments, you prolly deserved it.

;)

[darin]

What is standard, seeing the rep comments or also seeing PMs?

The reputation Manager feature allows us to mediate as described in my last reply - AND to fix things...if somebody send NEGATIVE rep, but meant to send POSITIVE and stuff. :)

It's handy.

[Dilloduck]

We take complaints. Sometimes users say things like "That person is sending me BULLSHIT thru the Rep system!"

As nobody can 'forward' Rep comments (as they can with harrassing PMs), sometimes we'll look-see for ourselves. If you were chastised for sending harrassing Rep comments, you prolly deserved it.

;)

So the key is to send bullshit through the PM system---gotcha! :thumb:

Deserved it? :lmao:

[jimnyc]

What is standard, seeing the rep comments or also seeing PMs?

Seeing rep comments via AdminCP - PM'S CANNOT BE READ HERE, only at the other board

[jimnyc]

Funny how Kathianne has been reading these interesting threads all along. I guess she's admiring her and her boss's handywork. :)

[Dilloduck]

Seeing rep comments via AdminCP - PM'S CANNOT BE READ HERE, only at the other board

LOL ya--I was told that at the other board too !:lmao:

[jimnyc]

LOL ya--I was told that at the other board too !:lmao:

Told what at the other board, and by whom?

[Dilloduck]

Told what at the other board, and by whom?

Jim,
Y'all have access to info that regular members don't. It's power. I would just like to know how much you have so I can make informed decisions on what I say and where I say it. I expect that you will be honest with us and honor what you say unless I find out that your power is used maliciously.

[jimnyc]

Jim,
Y'all have access to info that regular members don't. It's power. I would just like to know how much you have so I can make informed decisions on what I say and where I say it. I expect that you will be honest with us and honor what you say unless I find out that your power is used maliciously.

The only thing considered 'personal' that we can see is the rep comments, nothing else.

Seriously, who told you what at the other board that you referred to in your prior post?

[Dilloduck]

The only thing considered 'personal' that we can see is the rep comments, nothing else.

Seriously, who told you what at the other board that you referred to in your prior post?


Seriously it was said in confidence that I promised to honor. I keep my promises.

[The ClayTaurus]

Jim,
Y'all have access to info that regular members don't. It's power. I would just like to know how much you have so I can make informed decisions on what I say and where I say it. I expect that you will be honest with us and honor what you say unless I find out that your power is used maliciously.
You know, if you were concerned about certain people finding out things you're saying, disclosure via the internet (in general) is probably not the best idea.

[darin]

Seriously it was said in confidence that I promised to honor. I keep my promises.

Then it never happened, or you were SEVERELY lied to.

(shrug).

[jimnyc]

Seriously it was said in confidence that I promised to honor. I keep my promises.

So nobody on staff made any public statements? I made repeated posts on that board over the years that PM's couldn't be read, and I stand by that to this moment. If someone tried to tell you differently via PM/email, and you choose not to discuss, not sure why you would bring that up here.

Bottom line, if it dealt with what staff could access regarding confidentiality, you were out and out told incorrectly.

Now, for what takes place there now, I'll let the facts speak for themselves. Kind odd that so much of this happened there recently and we didn't see any of it at all when I ran things.

[Dilloduck]

So nobody on staff made any public statements? I made repeated posts on that board over the years that PM's couldn't be read, and I stand by that to this moment. If someone tried to tell you differently via PM/email, and you choose not to discuss, not sure why you would bring that up here.

Bottom line, if it dealt with what staff could access regarding confidentiality, you were out and out told incorrectly.

Now, for what takes place there now, I'll let the facts speak for themselves. Kind odd that so much of this happened there recently and we didn't see any of it at all when I ran things.

It's all good,Jim. I know what I need to know about the vBulletin thing and I hope others do too !!:thumb: Keep up the good work !

[jimnyc]

It's all good,Jim. I know what I need to know about the vBulletin thing and I hope others do too !!:thumb: Keep up the good work !

Thank you, sir! Carry on...

[Mr. P]

When I arrange to meet dmp at some 'no tell' motel, I always do it via e-mail.:)

[darin]

You two get a room already...geesh.

:D

[darin]

When I arrange to meet dmp at some 'no tell' motel, I always do it via e-mail.:)



LMAO...you are SO wrong for that...homo..

[Dilloduck]

You two get a room already...geesh.

:D

Like you and Mr P ????? no way :eek:

[Mr. P]

LMAO...you are SO wrong for that...homo..

Had tooooo it was so much fun..:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Hobbit]

Yeah, I found out from dmp about the reading PMs and stuff and I'm pissed. I was under the impression that the 'P' in PM stood for 'Private.' Now, it isn't the glancing through them once in a while that bugs me so much as it is a) banning for privately asking another member, whose e-mail you don't have, to check out a web site or another board. I don't think that constitutes advertising. b) The slippery slope. I've seen it before. First, they read your PMs, then they start banning over innocent comments in PMs. Before you know it, they've got DU's banning policy.

[jackass]

So does anyone know this for a FACT???

[jimnyc]

So does anyone know this for a FACT???

As in someone there actually admitting to it? Not yet...

But, when someone is told point blank that Darin and OCA were banned for sending a link to this site via PM to another member, it's rather obvious. OCA sent an innocent PM to just one member he's friends with, we know that member, he never spoke to a single person about the PM, but OCA was banned just a short while later. The owner there and I emailed this morning and when I asked him how he knew these PM's contained links to this site he stopped responding to me.

AND, he spoke of adding to the 'new' rules there that management reserved the right to read PM's. This was done so in a private forum, and he was advised by other staff that it wasn't a good idea.

You make the call...

[TheSage]

It's been said multiple times now. Reputation comments are not private.

Way to go little asskiss, you law down the law.;)

[jimnyc]

This doesn't prove a damn thing, but it gives you some insight to someone and how they might go about running their forums...

There is a thread at the site I mentioned earlier where a user released a modification that allows staff to read members PM's. Granted, this was apparently around since 2004, but the new owner of our old site had posted in that thread that he installed it but couldn't get it to work. You're willing to try reading others PM's, and in my opinion, you will work on the code until you succeed. I believe if someone was trying this 2 years ago on their forums that they likely figured out how to do so by now.

Anyone is free to PM me for the link to the thread in question and I'll be happy to send it to you. Not much to see though, other than a statement that he couldn't get it to work at the time, but IMO it all adds up and appears a little deceitful to me.

[jackass]

I was just wondering thats all. I havent been back there since I found out you opened this place. I was just gonna do some "testing" to see if it was true.

[jimnyc]

I was just wondering thats all. I havent been back there since I found out you opened this place. I was just gonna do some "testing" to see if it was true.

Considering him and his IP address are reading this forum/thread right now, you're banishment might take place before you have a chance to! :)

[Mr. P]

As in someone there actually admitting to it? Not yet...

But, when someone is told point blank that Darin and OCA were banned for sending a link to this site via PM to another member, it's rather obvious. OCA sent an innocent PM to just one member he's friends with, we know that member, he never spoke to a single person about the PM, but OCA was banned just a short while later. The owner there and I emailed this morning and when I asked him how he knew these PM's contained links to this site he stopped responding to me.

AND, he spoke of adding to the 'new' rules there that management reserved the right to read PM's. This was done so in a private forum, and he was advised by other staff that it wasn't a good idea.

You make the call...So are you ready to retract the ‘Greg is a good guy, give him time’ stuff?:dev:

[jimnyc]

So are you ready to retract the ‘Greg is a good guy, give him time’ stuff?:dev:

Had I known privacy would be breached without notice to members, or that members would be banned for no good reason (IMO), I would never have sold to him.

[The ClayTaurus]

Way to go little asskiss, you law down the law.;)*yawn*

[pegwinn]

Damn.

Two snowstorms, a move, and a week onna jury and all hell breaks loose in message board land.

Folks, try to remember that it's a board and the current owner of any board is a dictator. Benevolent though they may be. Finally, posting anything on the internet is like talking on a party line (y'all do remember party lines right?), you have to expect to be overheard and speak accordingly.

So far the only folks that banned me was DU. Might be entertaining for a few days.

y'all have fun now.

[TheSage]

*yawn*

Seriously. It was heroic how you jumped in there and restated the rules in an emphatic manner. Maybe you'll get to be a brownshirt someday!:wink2:

[The ClayTaurus]

Seriously. It was heroic how you jumped in there and restated the rules in an emphatic manner. Maybe you'll get to be a brownshirt someday!:wink2:Go play with someone else.

[dirt mcgirt]

You guys should just flood each other with PMs and talk about nothing but how big of a douchebag the admins and mods are over there.

[jimnyc]

Closing this thread so it doesn't turn into a pissing match that has nothing to do with the original topic.

I've tried & tried to get reasonable explanations from staff at the other board as to what transpired with the PM's, but once I explained the circumstances and what I was aware of, and how the contents couldn't have been known, the replies stopped.

While they may have their measures in place for their staff, I want to reitirate one more time - Debate Policy will NOT engage in reading of confidential PM's, EVER.