Muslim "leaders" angry over FBI-Released Photos of Suspicious Ferry Riders.

[darin]

Boo. Hoo. If Arabs/muslims wouldnt keep up the suicide bombings and blowing stuff up, maybe they'd have something to bitch about?



http://media.komotv.com/images/070820_Ferry_Men.jpg

SEATTLE -- FBI agents are working through tons of tips they received after releasing a photo of two men who they say were acting suspiciously aboard Washington state ferries.

Publicizing the photo of men who haven't been accused of a crime was an unusual move by the FBI. Officials with the Bureau say they just want to talk to the two men.

The State Patrol says investigators started by showing the pictures to ferry workers, Then they showed them at a fire and police training exercise.

With no new leads, they decided to get all the ferry riders involved by publicizing the photos and asking, "do you know who these men are?"

Onboard the ferries, there's mixed reaction.

When the Bainbridge ferry pulls away from the dock, the cameras come out.

There's the family from London, "seeing the lovely views and trying to get the daily life of Seattle." The man who used to live here snaps photos and says, "It's just a chance to have something to remember things by."

And scores of other tourists and travelers.

But in the last month, there were also the two men in the FBI photos. The FBI won't say if two were taking pictures - just that the two were unusually interested in the size of the boats, how they work, and the docking procedures.

.....................


The release of the photo has angered many in the Muslim community.

"These men look like Arabs," said Aziz Junejo. "What most people would personify as a so-called terrorist and the fear that our government is putting into people right now."

The FBI insists that it's not trying to scare anyone and that they just want to talk to the two men and move on, and Aziz and Bureau officials agree that federal agents have developed an excellent relationship with the Muslim community.

Read more:

http://www.komotv.com/news/9298741.html

[hjmick]

I'll worry about them being upset the next time some Swede blows himself up in a crowd.

[Hagbard Celine]

I'll worry about them being upset the next time some Swede blows himself up in a crowd.

Yeah, exactly. Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Shintoists, Atheists, Deists, Transcendentalists, Mormons and Spaghetti Monsterists aren't the ones blowing themselves up in the middle of large crowds of people. Maybe the "Muslim Leadership" should be upset about that.

[gabosaurus]

BFD. The Bushies get upset every time the media publishes something that "endangers war strategy."

[darin]

What are you talking about? Please at least reply to the context of the thread. :)

[jafar00]

Yeah, exactly. Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Shintoists, Atheists, Deists, Transcendentalists, Mormons and Spaghetti Monsterists aren't the ones blowing themselves up in the middle of large crowds of people. Maybe the "Muslim Leadership" should be upset about that.

Muslims aren't either. You do know that in Islam, suicide is considered a sin, punished by a free pass into hellfire? Not to mention murder.

[darin]

When muslims stop w/ the suicide bombs, your statement will have more credibility. Sorry man. No offense intended.

[chesswarsnow]

They should find these two men, and when they do I hope its not to late. They do look like they were up to no good, Not unlike most Muslims anyways. Why don't they come forward if they weren't up to something, eh? Sure they were thats why they are hiding out now, planning a huge attack.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[jafar00]

When muslims stop w/ the suicide bombs, your statement will have more credibility. Sorry man. No offense intended.

I didn't know any Muslims were doing suicide bombs. There are some doing it who CLAIM to be Muslims, but their actions are the exact opposite of what Islam teaches, therefore how can they be considered Muslims if their last action in this world was an action of unbelief?

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


They should find these two men, and when they do I hope its not to late. They do look like they were up to no good, Not unlike most Muslims anyways. Why don't they come forward if they weren't up to something, eh? Sure they were thats why they are hiding out now, planning a huge attack.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

1. This post was taken out of its original form, I don't appreciate that.
2. Freedom of Speech, and form may be an issue here.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[darin]

I hope what you say is true, Jafar.

[Gaffer]

Muslims aren't either. You do know that in Islam, suicide is considered a sin, punished by a free pass into hellfire? Not to mention murder.

But martyrdom is not considered suicide. Killing yourself while killing infidels is perfectly ok. Call it only a radical element, but that element is a major portion of islam. And murder only applies to other muslims. Murdering infidels is perfectly acceptable in muslim dominated countries.

[Trigg]

I didn't know any Muslims were doing suicide bombs. There are some doing it who CLAIM to be Muslims, but their actions are the exact opposite of what Islam teaches, therefore how can they be considered Muslims if their last action in this world was an action of unbelief?

When the muslim press stops praising the bombers then what you have typed will make more sense.

It isn't even worth spending time finding links.

[jafar00]

But martyrdom is not considered suicide. Killing yourself while killing infidels is perfectly ok. Call it only a radical element, but that element is a major portion of islam. And murder only applies to other muslims. Murdering infidels is perfectly acceptable in muslim dominated countries.

Martyrdom is dying while engaged in fighting an enemy. Walking into the middle of a market and blowing yourself up doesn't constitute dying while fighting the enemy no matter which way you want to twist it.

If you can find a piece of Islamic scripture that supports suicide bombings, then by all means produce it. I know for a fact it does not exist.

Also another misconception you have is that murdering "infidels" is somehow acceptable in "Muslim" countries. How so?

[jafar00]

When the muslim press stops praising the bombers then what you have typed will make more sense.

It isn't even worth spending time finding links.

What Muslim press praises them? Every Islamic source I have from my local Imam to mainstream Islamic run press condemn terrorism in it's every form.

[nevadamedic]

Boo. Hoo. If Arabs/muslims wouldnt keep up the suicide bombings and blowing stuff up, maybe they'd have something to bitch about?

They are just angry because they don't want their fellow terrorists arrested before they can fulfill their mission and kill Americans.

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,





They are just angry because they don't want their fellow terrorists arrested before they can fulfill their mission and kill Americans.


1. Now you are using sound reasoning.
:dance:


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[82Marine89]

http://media.komotv.com/images/070820_Ferry_Men.jpg

The one on the right looks like Bert.

[Trigg]

I didn't know any Muslims were doing suicide bombs. There are some doing it who CLAIM to be Muslims, but their actions are the exact opposite of what Islam teaches, therefore how can they be considered Muslims if their last action in this world was an action of unbelief?

Care to explain this then. Does this not come from the Koran?????


http://www.wvinter.net/~haught/Koran.html

Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191

Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39

Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216
(different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

..... martyrs.... Enter heaven - Surah 3:140-43

[darin]

http://media.komotv.com/images/070820_Ferry_Men.jpg

The one on the right looks like Bert.

Doesn't surprise me.


http://www.bertisevil.tv/img/bazooka-bert.jpg
http://www.mlcsmith.com/strange/bertsama_bin_laden/art/bert_osama_3.jpg

[jafar00]

Care to explain this then. Does this not come from the Koran?????


http://www.wvinter.net/~haught/Koran.html


And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits. 2:190


Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191


But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. 2:192

Self defence. Fight those who attack you, drive them out of your country that they have invaded and oppressed you, and take back your homes. But if the enemy stops fighting, and makes peace, you must immediately do the same.

Can you tell me, what exactly is bad in the above verses?



Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39

2:193 in entirety with the bit you left out...

And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors. 2:193

Again, talking about the ones who attacked you, and the command to make peace with them if they stop fighting you.


Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216
(different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

In it's entirety...

Fighting is enjoined on you, and it is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know. 2:216


And now.. with a bit of context..

They ask you concerning the sacred month about fighting in it. Say: Fighting in it is a grave matter, and hindering (men) from Allah's way and denying Him, and (hindering men from) the Sacred Mosque and turning its people out of it, are still graver with Allah, and persecution is graver than slaughter; and they will not cease fighting with you until they turn you back from your religion, if they can; and whoever of you turns back from his religion, then he dies while an unbeliever-- these it is whose works shall go for nothing in this world and the hereafter, and they are the inmates of the fire; therein they shall abide. 2:217

Who was denying entry into the Sacred Mosque? (Masjid Al Haram - Mecca)
It was the pagans of Mecca who broke treaties and attacked the Muslims.

I underlined the bit in blue for you as that relates to suicide bombers and terrorists who kill innocent people. Just so you know what punishment is in store for them.

You have quoted all verses relating to self defence.
Do you not defend yourself if attacked?

[Nukeman]

[.

I underlined the bit in blue for you as that relates to suicide bombers and terrorists who kill innocent people. Just so you know what punishment is in store for them.

You have quoted all verses relating to self defence.
Do you not defend yourself if attacked?


If I remember correctly WE were ATTACKED by a groupe of MUSLIM men flying airplanes full of INNOCENT people into the side of a finacial building full of INNOCENT people.

We have stopped the aggressive war in Iraq, we are there trying to retore order and we are ATTACKED by cowards who would rather take business people hostage and sever their heads in the name of Allah and you think we should just roll over and let this great religion of peace have its way with the world.

There are suposedly 1.5 billion muslims out there and I see a very large number of them are violent and have a total disregard for others religion and lives.

You can show me passage after passage but unless you are willing to FOLLOW what is in those passage they aren't worth the paper they are printed on now are they!!

[darin]

keep in mind, when you post quotes - removing the 'context' of scripture betrays the intent of the author. If I were to pull random verses out of the Old Testament, especailly, one may find very shocking "instructions"

[Trigg]

I didn't know any Muslims were doing suicide bombs. There are some doing it who CLAIM to be Muslims, but their actions are the exact opposite of what Islam teaches, therefore how can they be considered Muslims if their last action in this world was an action of unbelief?

Well apparently they think they are muslims who are acting for Allah. The end result of course is the persecution of the christians living in their countries.

In this article the man is saying the actions are un-islamic, but that isn't stopping the murders.

If there were only 1-2 people doing these things, we could wright them off as nuts.

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/10/16/210223.shtml

Indonesia: In the eastern islands of this largest Muslim nation in the world, white-uniformed militiamen of Laskar Jihad are forcibly converting Christians to Islam. Marshall said this caused considerable embarrassment to the government, which did not condone such actions.
This campaign has so far cost the lives of 5,000 to 6,000 people, the British-born scholar related. "There are links between Laskar Jihad and top terrorist Osama bin Laden," he said.


Bangladesh: Small radical groups supporting Osama bin Laden have bombed or burned down churches.

Pakistan: Christians depend on the protection of the government as several Muslim leaders have issued fatwas (religious decrees) to kill two Pakistani Christians for every Afghan Muslim who dies in the Anglo-American air raids.
There have also been attacks on Christians along the Afghan border, Marshall told UPI.


Egypt: The government discriminates against Christianity by financing the construction of mosques, while denying permits for the reconstruction of Christian sanctuaries, according to Marshall.

Saudi-Arabia: In the last two months, 15 Christian expatriates have been jailed for worshiping in private homes, and three have been tortured, according to the religious rights organization International Christian Concern.

[jafar00]

You can show me passage after passage but unless you are willing to FOLLOW what is in those passage they aren't worth the paper they are printed on now are they!!

If you are doing the exact opposite of what is contained within the passages of the Qur'aan I have shown you, are you a Muslim or something else entirely?

[Gunny]

Muslims aren't either. You do know that in Islam, suicide is considered a sin, punished by a free pass into hellfire? Not to mention murder.

Disingenuous. You know as well as I do THAT is NOT what's being taught in these fundamental extremist camps or there wouldn't be a Arab Muslim suicide bombers.

Right?

[Nukeman]

If you are doing the exact opposite of what is contained within the passages of the Qur'aan I have shown you, are you a Muslim or something else entirely?The Koran is left up to the interpretation of the leader of EACH INDIVIDUAL MOSQUE, Do you know what is being taught at EACH AND EVERY MOSQUE?? (I sure as hell dont but I know what is being taught at some and some of your great madras as well... Hate, intolerance, and suffering) If not than you really dont have much to say as to what is being taught to these young impresionable Muslim boys and young men. They are being currupted by vile dispicable men who are using their influence and their interpretation of the Koran to bastardize and distort your religion. They are making a mockery of your interprtation of your religion... Me personally that would piss me off to no end I would try to make it right at every turn.. Hey you do what you want and we will continue to see the hypocracy of your religion and its actions...

These are the people you should push your anger and sarcasm on instead of us. you should spend more time policeing your own religious "leaders" and less time making excuses for why you act the way you do....

[Nukeman]

Muslims aren't either. You do know that in Islam, suicide is considered a sin, punished by a free pass into hellfire? Not to mention murder.
While on another sight (Islamic I might add I came across the following passages and idea of "suicide bombings and how they think.)

I think a lot of Shias would take exception to "your" interpritation of the Koran and its stance on martyrdom and their interprtations

Here goes...



Hadith
If you leave behind something that is dear to you for the sake of Allah, He will replace it with something even more precious. - Rasoul Allah


Therefore turn to thy Lord in Prayer and Sacrifice. - 108:2


And say not of those slain in the way of Allah: "They are dead." Nay, they are living, though ye perceive (it) not. - 2:154


They are neither stupid nor haram.
I don't think you understand that suicide is when you end your life because you don't want to live anymore. These martyrdom operations are people sacrificing themselves and receiving a great reward from the Creator. Why do they do this? They do it to protect their families and their nation and to get a good life in the Hereafter.
I also do not think you understand that in Palestine for instance, the mujahidîn were forced to sacrifice themselves. They got bombed from everywhere and got closed in a little corner, now what can they do if someone like you forbids them to sacrifice themselves? Give away the remaining parts of their country?
Do you not realize that they can not throw the bomb?

The great Imâm al-Khomeini ruled martyrdom operations permissible, and that, along with common sense is enough for me. I really like this part


It's not suicide bombing, it's self-sacrifice.


Yet you do not seem to get that they don't do it for their own sake.
Imâm al-Khomeini ruled it permissable, as has many other high ranking 3ulamâ' - probably the majority of them.
Of course it depends on the situation, but here I am defending the Palestinian freedomfighters who go out there and sacrifice themselves for the sake of their country. And I should let you know, that they don't just go like "oh well, death, here I come". It take's some guts to do what they do, yet I find people here talking about it in such a disrespectful manner.


Jafir Ibne Abi Talib asked the Prophet Muhammad what is the thing that Allah likes the most of his believers to do and the Prophet replied the one who takes of his armor and runs into the opposing enemy army. So Jafar Ibne Abi Talib took off all of his armour ran into the kuffr army and killed many kufaar before becoming Shaheed. Now I link that to Suicide Bombings because the Intention is to kill as many opposition soldiers (not innocent civilians) as possible and sacrificing your own life in doing so.


Exaclty we should call them Martyrdom operations and not suicide bombings because that is what the kufaar(this would be us evil people that aren't muslim) call them.


This kind of death is much much much better than dying whilst watching your country get attacked and expecting Allah (swt) to make it work like He is some kind of butler to us.
I say again, for the 100th time.. It is not suicide.



Yes, suicide is harâm. But this isn't suicide. And with all due respect, I think the scholars of Islâm, Khomeini especially, know more than you do regarding this.


This is some of your Muslim brothers/sisters that feel this way. I could go on and on but I think you may get what I am saying.

If you are truely interested in Making a difference than why dont you go to Shiachat.com and argue with your borthers about wether or not suicide bombing are haram or martyrdom!!!!!:poke:

[Gaffer]

Gotta spread the rep around before repping you again Nuke.

[Nukeman]

Gotta spread the rep around before repping you again Nuke.Its the thought that counts!!!!!!!!:beer::thewave:

[jafar00]

Nukeman, thanks for your quotes, but these people are ignoring the fact that, ignoring the killing of innocents bit, the simple act of pressing the button that makes you blow up, makes this a suicide.

Martyrdom is facing certain death by the hands of your enemy. Suicide is death by your own hand.

[Nukeman]

Nukeman, thanks for your quotes, but these people are ignoring the fact that, ignoring the killing of innocents bit, the simple act of pressing the button that makes you blow up, makes this a suicide.

Martyrdom is facing certain death by the hands of your enemy. Suicide is death by your own hand.

I do agree with you that there are a great number of people who follow Islam who are peacful and loving individuals however you can not deny the vast number of followers who are being indotrinated into a bastardized version of your religion as I stated earlier in this thread that would make ME so very angry that they were using MY religion in this matter that I would do everything in my power to stop it.

This is ultimately the problem we in the west dont see enough to stop the type of teachign that glorify Suicide bombings, subjugating women to second class citizens, etc.... It is very sad that in most Ilamic countries a 5 year old male child carries more wait than an adult female....

Things like this are what people in a FREE society don't understand how or why you would tolerate such bahavior....