Dyna vs fatboy.

[Black Diamond]

I realize it's gonna be "whatever your preference" but can someone tell me the advantages and differences of each ?

[Gunny]

Are you drinking again? Or just talking in code?:laugh: WTF are those?

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I realize it's gonna be "whatever your preference" but can someone tell me the advantages and differences of each ?
The major difference between the two is a Dyna has an "A" engine, no internal balancers and the engine is shock mounted with rubber engine mounts, and a softail, ala Fatboy, has a "B" engine with internal balancers, won't rev up as fast or as far and the engine is solid mounted into the frame.

Then a Dyna has two outside mounted rear shocks between the upper frame rails and the lower control arm and a softail, ala Fatboy, has a mono shock mounted under the frame to a one piece rear control arm. Then there's also cosmetic differences.

Softails, ala Fatboy, are for stylin'... Dynas are Harley Davisons big twin hotrods.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

My 2006 Harley Davidson Dyna Super Glide 35th Anniversary collector...

https://image.ibb.co/iLHYRT/20180526_190500.jpg

[Black Diamond]

Are you drinking again? Or just talking in code?:laugh: WTF are those?
Both. Nothing better than a pre run beer. :laugh:

[Black Diamond]

Both. Nothing better than a pre run beer. :laugh:
I'll balance it out with some grilled cheese.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

You must have asked about the difference between a Fatboy, (softail), and a Dyna just to start a thread... :rolleyes:

[Gunny]

The major difference between the two is a Dyna has an "A" engine, no internal balancers and the engine is shock mounted with rubber engine mounts, and a softail, ala Fatboy, has a "B" engine with internal balancers, won't rev up as fast or as far and the engine is solid mounted into the frame.

Then a Dyna has two outside mounted rear shocks between the upper frame rails and the lower control arm and a softail, ala Fatboy, has a mono shock mounted under the frame to a one piece rear control arm. Then there's also cosmetic differences.

Softails, ala Fatboy, are for stylin'... Dynas are Harley Davisons big twin hotrods.Man, I thought he was talking about atomic bombs :laugh: "Little Man" and "Fat Boy". :)

[Black Diamond]

Man, I thought he was talking about atomic bombs :laugh: "Little Man" and "Fat Boy". :)
I never saw that movie with Paul Newman. I always imagined it would be leftist crap.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Man, I thought he was talking about atomic bombs :laugh: "Little Man" and "Fat Boy". :)
Ya... I'll remember to respond about BOMBS next time he asks about Harleys... :rolleyes:

[Gunny]

I never saw that movie with Paul Newman. I always imagined it would be leftist crap.Don't know about the movie. Those were the names of the two atomic bombs dropped on Japan.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Must have been a test to see if I was really a Harley Tech... :laugh:

[Black Diamond]

Don't know about the movie. Those were the names of the two atomic bombs dropped on Japan.
Yeah. It's what the film is about.

[Black Diamond]

Must have been a test to see if I was really a Harley Tech... :laugh:
Wifes aunts boyfriend retired out of Harley in Milwaukee. They both ride road kings now.

[Gunny]

Ya... I'll remember to respond about BOMBS next time he asks about Harleys... :rolleyes:You'd think I'd know more having worked in a biker bar for about 2 1/2 years before I joined the Marine Corps, but you can put what I know about motorcycles in a thimble. And probably have plenty of extra room :laugh:

My rule of thumb about bikes is I usually back way off them on the road. I don't need any human-size bugsplat on my windshield. :) Seriously I just give them a wide birth because I know they don't have as much room for error as I do. That's like real bikers anyway. Can't do much about the crotch rocket riders that zip in and out of traffic and jump right in front of you or appear suddenly on your ass.

That is dangerous to do to my truck because it sits high enough I have a blind spot at my 6.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Wifes aunts boyfriend retired out of Harley in Milwaukee. They both ride road kings now.
Great bikes... Road Kings... they have the rubber mounted "A" engine as well, all cruisers do, or did. Harley quit making the Dyna in '19... fools.

Just made the price of mine shoot up.

[Black Diamond]

You'd think I'd know more having worked in a biker bar for about 2 1/2 years before I joined the Marine Corps, but you can put what I know about motorcycles in a thimble. And probably have plenty of extra room :laugh:

My rule of thumb about bikes is I usually back way off them on the road. I don't need any human-size bugsplat on my windshield. :) Seriously I just give them a wide birth because I know they don't have as much room for error as I do. That's like real bikers anyway. Can't do much about the crotch rocket riders that zip in and out of traffic and jump right in front of you or appear suddenly on your ass.

That is dangerous to do to my truck because it sits high enough I have a blind spot at my 6.
I read recently the reason bikers often speed up beside you is to get out of your blind spot as quickly as possible.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

You'd think I'd know more having worked in a biker bar for about 2 1/2 years before I joined the Marine Corps, but you can put what I know about motorcycles in a thimble. And probably have plenty of extra room :laugh:

My rule of thumb about bikes is I usually back way off them on the road. I don't need any human-size bugsplat on my windshield. :) Seriously I just give them a wide birth because I know they don't have as much room for error as I do. That's like real bikers anyway. Can't do much about the crotch rocket riders that zip in and out of traffic and jump right in front of you or appear suddenly on your ass.

That is dangerous to do to my truck because it sits high enough I have a blind spot at my 6.
I never weaved in and out of traffic in Reno, too dangerous. But I'm not shy on my Harley. I do get a wild hair up my ass sometimes and ride like the devil is chasing me... it's fun. We all did, and when I rode with the Vagos in Reno you HAD to keep up, or you didn't ride in the pack.

My new Camaro has "blind spot alert" in the mirrors. If there's someone in your blind spot there's a bright orange emblem that blinks in the mirrors and an alarm beeps in the car.

What will they think of next?

[High_Plains_Drifter]

i read recently the reason bikers often speed up beside you is to get out of your blind spot as quickly as possible.
An old biker saying... "LOUD PIPES SAVES LIVES."

If they don't see you, they damn sure better hear you.

[Gunny]

I read recently the reason bikers often speed up beside you is to get out of your blind spot as quickly as possible.I don't care if they're beside me. I can see them and don't have a blind spot there. The blind spot is from the tailgate back for at least a good car length. If you zoom right up on my ass I might not see you.

And it's not just bikes. If you got one of those little Matchbox cars that'll fit in my glove box, they can get in it too. Since I normally don't have to drive in traffic, I usually do my running around BS during everyone else's work hours.

Even then you never know. I go up two blocks, hang a left, one block to the light, through the intersection and into 7-11. I could walk there minus the intersection. Anyway, people are always trying to run the light there and one did yesterday in a U-Haul and nailed a Via (city) bus. Not just ANY Via bus. The small one that's low to the ground old and handicapped people ride. He put 10 if them in the hospital. His name is mud. I go through that intersection about every day.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Nooooo... I never rode with an outlaw biker gang... whatever gave you that idea... :laugh:

https://image.ibb.co/kMqZGT/DSC01628.jpg

[Black Diamond]

How does one get out of the banditos?

[Gunny]

I never weaved in and out of traffic in Reno, too dangerous. But I'm not shy on my Harley. I do get a wild hair up my ass sometimes and ride like the devil is chasing me... it's fun. We all did, and when I rode with the Vagos in Reno you HAD to keep up, or you didn't ride in the pack.

My new Camaro has "blind spot alert" in the mirrors. If there's someone in your blind spot there's a bright orange emblem that blinks in the mirrors and an alarm beeps in the car.

What will they think of next?I have no idea. I don't like all that electronic shit. I dread ever having to get a new vehicle.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I have no idea. I don't like all that electronic shit. I dread ever having to get a new vehicle.
I'll tell ya Gunny... I love all the high tech shit... I guess that's why I was so well suited for the Air Force.

[Gunny]

I'll tell ya Gunny... I love all the high tech shit... I guess that's why I was so well suited for the Air Force.I guess it's one of those to each his own things. I'm a good electrician and can actually read and understand the Code, I just prefer simple, manual stuff. A lot might come from the Marines and possibly I used to be a total desert rat 4-wheeler. Anything complicated requires a complicated fix. Jeeps back then were 4 wheels, 4 leafs, 2 axles, tranny, transfer case and engine. Wasn't a whole lot you couldn't fix out of tool kit unless you needed a replacement part. That's we we'd go in at least a pair in case one jeep had to fetch for the other.

And unlike you, I don't even have a stereo ( I do in my vehicle). My laptop is loud enough. I don't like loud music. I can tell the difference between an analog and digital tv, but I'll be damned if I've EVER been able to figure out what HD is. Looks the same to me.

My firearms? M1911A1 ,45 ACP, Browning Hi-Power, and a bolt action Remington in .308. Always wanted a Single Action Army and a lever action 30-30 but I have to keep everything locked up at the range because of the special needs kid. Got a lot of knives in my room though.

Anyway, I'm just a basic kind of guy.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I guess it's one of those to each his own things. I'm a good electrician and can actually read and understand the Code, I just prefer simple, manual stuff. A lot might come from the Marines and possibly I used to be a total desert rat 4-wheeler. Anything complicated requires a complicated fix. Jeeps back then were 4 wheels, 4 leafs, 2 axles, tranny, transfer case and engine. Wasn't a whole lot you couldn't fix out of tool kit unless you needed a replacement part. That's we we'd go in at least a pair in case one jeep had to fetch for the other.

And unlike you, I don't even have a stereo ( I do in my vehicle). My laptop is loud enough. I don't like loud music. I can tell the difference between an analog and digital tv, but I'll be damned if I've EVER been able to figure out what HD is. Looks the same to me.

My firearms? M1911A1 ,45 ACP, Browning Hi-Power, and a bolt action Remington in .308. Always wanted a Single Action Army and a lever action 30-30 but I have to keep everything locked up at the range because of the special needs kid. Got a lot of knives in my room though.

Anyway, I'm just a basic kind of guy.
There's nothing basic about electricity, my friend. It's complicated. Obviously you know the difference between A/C and D/C current, and that less than a 1/4 of an amp can kill you if it goes across your heart, and there's nothing basic about wiring a house either. "You want to switch this light from here and there?" How about a three way switch? It ain't easy. That's why Wisconsin finally required that all electricians be licensed, MASTER electrician, otherwise you can do a job, but then you have to have a licensed Master Electrician come in and INSPECT your work. I'll tell ya, I helped my buddy the electrician for many years, but I couldn't keep straight all the frigin' wires we pulled sometimes as well as he could. Give me a 4 gang box of switches to wire and I know one thing, all the commons go together, but which wire was for what circuit I couldn't keep track of, but that fucker could stand there and botta bing, botta boom, it's done... always amazed me.

[Black Diamond]

Both. Nothing better than a pre run beer. :laugh:
Four miles.

[Black Diamond]

I guess it's one of those to each his own things. I'm a good electrician and can actually read and understand the Code, I just prefer simple, manual stuff. A lot might come from the Marines and possibly I used to be a total desert rat 4-wheeler. Anything complicated requires a complicated fix. Jeeps back then were 4 wheels, 4 leafs, 2 axles, tranny, transfer case and engine. Wasn't a whole lot you couldn't fix out of tool kit unless you needed a replacement part. That's we we'd go in at least a pair in case one jeep had to fetch for the other.

And unlike you, I don't even have a stereo ( I do in my vehicle). My laptop is loud enough. I don't like loud music. I can tell the difference between an analog and digital tv, but I'll be damned if I've EVER been able to figure out what HD is. Looks the same to me.

My firearms? M1911A1 ,45 ACP, Browning Hi-Power, and a bolt action Remington in .308. Always wanted a Single Action Army and a lever action 30-30 but I have to keep everything locked up at the range because of the special needs kid. Got a lot of knives in my room though.

Anyway, I'm just a basic kind of guy.
Did you usually work with 110 or 480?

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Did you usually work with 110 or 480?
480 is 3 phase. Nasty stuff. Can reach out and grab ya.

[Gunny]

There's nothing basic about electricity, my friend. It's complicated. Obviously you know the difference between A/C and D/C current, and that less than a 1/4 of an amp can kill you if it goes across your heart, and there's nothing basic about wiring a house either. "You want to switch this light from here and there?" How about a three way switch? It ain't easy. That's why Wisconsin finally required that all electricians be licensed, MASTER electrician, otherwise you can do a job, but then you have to have a licensed Master Electrician come in and INSPECT your work. I'll tell ya, I helped my buddy the electrician for many years, but I couldn't keep straight all the frigin' wires we pulled sometimes as well as he could. Give me a 4 gang box of switches to wire and I know one thing, all the commons go together, but which wire was for what circuit I couldn't keep track of, but that fucker could stand there and botta bing, botta boom, it's done... always amazed me.It's basic to me because I understand it and know how to handle it. It was how I used to pay the bills. Most of it is repetitive.

Here's a tip on remembering your wires --- they sell a book of numbers at Home Depot and Lowes, probably most hardware stores and/or electrical supply houses. It used to piss me off that something as simple as an adhesive number wrapped around each end of the wire you're pulling was too much effort for some people. Takes a little longer up front to mark your wires, but it pays off in the end when you don't have to ring out each and every wire in box to find out where it goes. THAT takes a LOT of time.

I'm WELL aware of the difference between volts and amps. Learned what both felt like first week in the trade:laugh: The return is carrying the load of every fixture attached to it and the electricity is "dirty". Knocked ne off an 8 footer. I've held volts between my fingers (I was not grounded) and hardly felt it. That is actually more dangerous because 120 can kill you without you realizing it by disrupting your heart. 277v will blow you off.

There's a rule for everything. Then there's the how to do it really rule to make it work. You just pick all that crap up over time. Not to mention the two courses I took in it that were about 10 books each and I would go out the $100 for my own Code book I kept in my truck. All of that is right behind me now..

[High_Plains_Drifter]

It's basic to me because I understand it and know how to handle it. It was how I used to pay the bills. Most of it is repetitive.

Here's a tip on remembering your wires --- they sell a book of numbers at Home Depot and Lowes, probably most hardware stores and/or electrical supply houses. It used to piss me off that something as simple as an adhesive number wrapped around each end of the wire you're pulling was too much effort for some people. Takes a little longer up front to mark your wires, but it pays off in the end when you don't have to ring out each and every wire in box to find out where it goes. THAT takes a LOT of time.

I'm WELL aware of the difference between volts and amps. Learned what both felt like first week in the trade:laugh: The return is carrying the load of every fixture attached to it and the electricity is "dirty". Knocked ne off an 8 footer. I've held volts between my fingers (I was not grounded) and hardly felt it. That is actually more dangerous because 120 can kill you without you realizing it by disrupting your heart. 277v will blow you off.

There's a rule for everything. Then there's the how to do it really rule to make it work. You just pick all that crap up over time. Not to mention the two courses I took in it that were about 10 books each and I would go out the $100 for my own Code book I kept in my truck. All of that is right behind me now..
277 is what they call the "BASTARD VOLTAGE." It's the one hot leg out of 3 phase that isn't the same as the other two. You have to learn this shit like you and I or it will kill you.

Yeah my buddy and I just started putting a little tag on each circuit and twisting it in the box so I could keep track of it. Everything else I had no problem with. Thing is, if I was doing it myself, I'd know, but he didn't relate to me his grand plan and I'd always have to ask... ok, what are pulling this leg for? On and on, he wouldn't tell me unless I asked. I think he just assumed I was keeping track like he was. Problem was he's the master electrician, not me...:laugh: But, those times were actually few and far between. It was only a couple of our huge house rewire jobs I'd lose track. It was still fun... I especially liked when we'd run EMT... that's an art, I like that.

[Gunny]

277 is what they call the "BASTARD VOLTAGE." It's the one hot leg out of 3 phase that isn't the same as the other two. You have to learn this shit like you and I or it will kill you.

Yeah my buddy and I just started putting a little tag on each circuit and twisting it in the box so I could keep track of it. Everything else I had no problem with. Thing is, if I was doing it myself, I'd know, but he didn't relate to me his grand plan and I'd always have to ask... ok, what are pulling this leg for? On and on, he wouldn't tell me unless I asked. I think he just assumed I was keeping track like he was. Problem was he's the master electrician, not me...:laugh: But, those times were actually few and far between. It was only a couple of our huge house rewire jobs I'd lose track. It was still fun... I especially liked when we'd run EMT... that's an art, I like that.

No. You are talking about a Delta transformer that has a high leg. I'd actually have to look it up to explain how the voltage works because I only worked on one or two. IIRC, 2 legs would be 120 and the high leg is 208

277/480v is 3 phase wye transformer. You have 3 277 volt legs that combined make 480v. 277v is used almost exclusively for florescent lighting. It's a lot less expensive and you can hook up like 27 2x4 lay-ins per circuit. If you have 120v, you can get like 11 lights and they use more electricity.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

No. You are talking about a Delta transformer that has a high leg. I'd actually have to look it up to explain how the voltage works because I only worked on one or two. IIRC, 2 legs would be 120 and the high leg is 208

277/480v is 3 phase wye transformer. You have 3 277 volt legs that combined make 480v. 277v is used almost exclusively for florescent lighting. It's a lot less expensive and you can hook up like 27 2x4 lay-ins per circuit. If you have 120v, you can get like 11 lights and they use more electricity.
Never heard of 3 legs of 277. You're talking above my knowledge. But 3 times 277 is 830 volts. I always thought you got 277 by taking one regular leg and the hot leg out of 480, 3 phase. You're right it's almost exclusively used for lighting though because I've done it.

You can get almost whatever voltage you want off a transformer tap.

[Gunny]

Never heard of 3 legs of 277. You're talking above my knowledge. But 3 times 277 is 830 volts. I always thought you got 277 by taking one regular leg and the hot leg out of 480, 3 phase. You're right it's almost exclusively used for lighting though because I've done it.

You can get almost whatever voltage you want off a transformer tap.Now you sound like me :) I'm well aware of what 3 x 277 is. It's 480v. The transformer windings say so :) 3 x 120 isn't 208 either. BUT ... 2 x 120 without a neutral IS is 240v. Any time you have one or two hots, with or without a neutral, it's single phase. I never got that one either. If you 2 hots it should be 2 phase. No such animal. Your house if wired like a house is 120/240v single phase. Your dryer is 240v. Everything else is 120. I think they might make a 240v stove/oven. If so, those are the only one or two 240v appliances you have.

I used 120/208 because that is the voltage I am familiar with. That doesn't sound right though. You need 3 phase wye to get to 277. What voltage transformer would you pull it from? You would have to have 2 legs at 240 to get a 480 high leg and what would you use a 480 high leg for? You can power another transformer with that much voltage and it doesn't make sense when you can run 480 straight to the transformer from the service.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Now you sound like me :) I'm well aware of what 3 x 277 is. It's 480v. The transformer windings say so :) 3 x 120 isn't 208 either. BUT ... 2 x 120 without a neutral IS is 240v. Any time you have one or two hots, with or without a neutral, it's single phase. I never got that one either. If you 2 hots it should be 2 phase. No such animal. Your house if wired like a house is 120/240v single phase. Your dryer is 240v. Everything else is 120. I think they might make a 240v stove/oven. If so, those are the only one or two 240v appliances you have.

I used 120/208 because that is the voltage I am familiar with. That doesn't sound right though. You need 3 phase wye to get to 277. What voltage transformer would you pull it from? You would have to have 2 legs at 240 to get a 480 high leg and what would you use a 480 high leg for? You can power another transformer with that much voltage and it doesn't make sense when you can run 480 straight to the transformer from the service.
OK... we're talking two different animals here. Have you ever looked at an oscilloscope of A/C current? You know that A/C changes direction at 60 cycles per second, et al, house hold A/C is 60 Hz. 3 phase current is 3 legs all at 180 degrees out of phase from each other, which makes the circle of things, 360 degrees. Houses are rarely wired with 3 phase. You find that in factories because 3 phase runs electric motors far more efficiently than single phase. The only way you can get 277 is if there's a 480, 3 phase source... agreed? If you've ever taken a VOM and read the voltage on all 3 legs of 480 3 phase, you'll find one of them is hotter than the rest, why I don't know, but you combine one regular leg and that "bastard leg" in 480 to get 277.

[SassyLady]

I realize it's gonna be "whatever your preference" but can someone tell me the advantages and differences of each ?

Soft tail is my preference.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Soft tail is my preference.
........... http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/sad/super-sad.gif (http://www.sherv.net/)

[Gunny]

OK... we're talking two different animals here. Have you ever looked at an oscilloscope of A/C current? You know that A/C changes direction at 60 cycles per second, et al, house hold A/C is 60 Hz. 3 phase current is 3 legs all at 180 degrees out of phase from each other, which makes the circle of things, 360 degrees. Houses are rarely wired with 3 phase. You find that in factories because 3 phase runs electric motors far more efficiently than single phase. The only way you can get 277 is if there's a 480, 3 phase source... agreed? If you've ever taken a VOM and read the voltage on all 3 legs of 480 3 phase, you'll find one of them is hotter than the rest, why I don't know, but you combine one regular leg and that "bastard leg" in 480 to get 277.We ARE talking two different animals. First rule in the electrical trade is you're never going to know everything and all that theory crap is nice, but at my level secondary to application and use. I'm digging through cobwebs because what I know of electrical theory I learned from a god journeyman who care to teach, and on my own. You don't need it in the field.

The 3 phase 277/480 system you are describing is a delta configuration high leg. In a wye configuration, 3 phase, 277/480 all legs are 277. 480 i2 the line voltage to the transformer that steps the 480 down to 3 277v legs for application. There is ZERO practical application reason to run 480 volts into a transformer to get 480 v in any application I have ever worked. NOW, that is not saying it doesn't happen because I've seen some weird shit and just when you think you've seen it all, someone throws you a curve.

The only time I worked on Delta configured systems was a couple of times just replacing things is REALLY OLD malls. I never did industrial. I never did lineman work. Screw that. You're allowed zero mistakes or you're dead. I did some service on commercial and houses but mostly I did ground up commercial construction, commercial remodels. All of it was 3 phase wye 277/480 or 120/208. Occasionally you'd get some oddball 240 equipment but that's easy to pull off a 120/208.

You tell me what you need, I figure out the load based on what you want to power which determines the size of your panel and the voltage you're bringing in. Then you have to size your feeders based on the load and the panel. Like I said, 277 is for lighting. If you have 277 lighting, you will have 2 panels. One for lighting, 277/480 and one for 120/208. You size your wiring according to load and distance and the specs at the outlet/connection.

I can sleepwalk through that process from the line to the last outlet. If i go outside what I am familiar with, the basics still apply, but I have to research the specific application like anyone else stretching the boundaries of the norm. When I was working, I usually just found the person in the company that familiar with whatever it was and had them show me how. As I said before, I have a NEC and plenty of instructional material. In each case, the application determines the service and teh service is pretty much predetermined in that the material available to you is preset to the different applications.

People sitting around dreaming up crap need electrical theory. I install it and make it work. Nothing worse than an electrical engineer drawing up a set of plans because they think the equipment and material can do all kinds of shit in theory that it can't in real life. My job's to figure out how to make his/her little imagination work wher ethe rubber meets the road. And you have to get quite creative at times :laugh:

And for everything I DO know about electrical? There's more I DON'T know, and once it hits that transformer that turns it into electronics? Might as well hand me a bowl of spaghetti or a Rubik's cube. When I have applied myself (which ain't lately) I'm a proficient user. But I can't take the things apart and tell you what each little piece of crap is like Jimbob or NT. the inside of a PC looks like my the box my granddaughter keeps her Lego's in to me. And lots of little bitty wires that wouldn't fire a light bulb :laugh:

[SassyLady]

........... http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/sad/super-sad.gif (http://www.sherv.net/)
Only because it is the only one I've ever be on.






Hint, hint.