Leadership and/or a Lack Thereof

[Gunny]

This is going to be an analogy, parable or whatever the Hell you want to call it but I don't know any other way to try and get a point across.

There is always that 10% of Marines who come checking in thinking their crap don't stink, they're above the law, and/or that bully the other Marines around. The leader is responsible. In my for instance that went from 12 to 40 to 150; squad, platoon and company, respectively.

Now I can take said badass and beat his ass down and make his life miserable 24-7 for his entire tour and never give him another thought. Throw his ass on mess duty, maintenance duty, guard duty and send him off to the rifle range as a coach, and when we deploy cough him up for a Ship's Platoon quota and not see him for 6 months.

During all this, the Marines that are trying suffer meaning the mission suffers and the unit suffers because I'm wasting my time on a bag of shit.

OR

I can watch my little 10% and beat them down and put my thumb on them and pay attention to the ones that squeal uncle and show a willingness to go with the program and get along and don't like my undivided attention focused on them :dev: I can take those Marines, maintain minimal pressure, but take the boot off their chests because they are trying. I can build those Marines up to BE Marines, and assets to my unit and mission. They feel better about themselves. If they're not careful they might learn something. They start taking pride and WANTING to be part of the unit. They usually turn out to be the better Marines and they might even remember their tour of duty fondly later in life.

Or I can just keep kick them and make them hate me and the Marine Corps and be useless bodies going through the motions or looking for any excuse to get kicked out early.

Trump has proven his point and he has won. Un agreed to a meeting and to disarm. Trump and Pompeo need to get their boots out of his ass or he is just going to bow up and rebel. I don't know where they got their leadership training, but I am FAR from impressed. Pat the little guy on the head and tell him "nice doggie" or WTF ever. Get the little a-hole to the table and the disarmament inspectors into NK.

Trump has bitten off more than he can chew and he's focusing on this one little idiot while ignoring the elephant in the room in the ME. And he best get to patching things up with our "allies" (who most are questionable at best on a good day) or he's going to find us alone facing more shit than we can handle.

[Abbey Marie]

Without disagreeing with your point, he is still doing much more than his predecessor did in 8 years.

[Gunny]

Without disagreeing with your point, he is still doing much more than his predecessor did in 8 years.I'm not arguing that and I'm not taking any personal pot shots at Trump. I'm questioning the way he is doing business as the leader of this country.

I'm not sure if he's done "more" than Obama. Obama worked pretty hard at trashing the Constitution. Done more positive, I agree. Not setting a very high bar there though :)

There's a lot of crap piling up on the US doorstep. Some is circumstance and some is the result of his decisions. Whether or not one agrees with the decisions is irrelevant to pile of crap building in front of our door. He needs to address what's on his plate before going in for more.

[FakeNewsSux]

I'm not arguing that and I'm not taking any personal pot shots at Trump. I'm questioning the way he is doing business as the leader of this country.

I'm not sure if he's done "more" than Obama. Obama worked pretty hard at trashing the Constitution. Done more positive, I agree. Not setting a very high bar there though :)

There's a lot of crap piling up on the US doorstep. Some is circumstance and some is the result of his decisions. Whether or not one agrees with the decisions is irrelevant to pile of crap building in front of our door. He needs to address what's on his plate before going in for more.

Those pats on the head have been there. They just don't have time to sink in because the President gets skewered immediately for kowtowing to a tin horn dictator. Whether calling him a smart leader at the beginning of the confrontation or praising him for his compassion upon the release of the three hostages, deference has been paid by and ridicule has been heaped on the President. The thing that is different this time is that this President isn't willing to declare victory and hand over the whole cookie jar at the first gesture of goodwill. Keeping the pressure on shows Kim that there's a new Sheriff in town and the old bullshit games aren't going to fly anymore.

[Gunny]

Those pats on the head have been there. They just don't have time to sink in because the President gets skewered immediately for kowtowing to a tin horn dictator. Whether calling him a smart leader at the beginning of the confrontation or praising him for his compassion upon the release of the three hostages, deference has been paid by and ridicule has been heaped on the President. The thing that is different this time is that this President isn't willing to declare victory and hand over the whole cookie jar at the first gesture of goodwill. Keeping the pressure on shows Kim that there's a new Sheriff in town and the old bullshit games aren't going to fly anymore.First and foremost ... Trump doesn't need to show Un or anyone else, ANYTHING. When you have to say it the only thing you are proving is insecurity.

Second, for all intents and REAL purposes, North Korea is not our business. We don't rule the World which is apprently the current mindset of many here in the US. I just saw a few minutes ago on the news Trump is threatening sanctions against some European country over their airbuses having accidents if they don't fix it his way. Get over the power trip already.

Perception IS reality. Trump came in hammer all over Un until Un backed down, agreed to disarm and agreed to meet with Trump. Ratcheting up the rhetoric is NOT a pat on the head. It's kicking someone in the teeth that's holding out his hand. Trump has artfully allowed a contrite and willing to play nice Un put him in the position of being a bully and not giving Mr Get Along a chance to. Like it or not, world opinion DOES matter.

When you compound that with the other things he's done that r=created a major impact in the World recently, they only used to think they hated us. Now they're probably sure the do. There are other people in the world to turn to besides us and the snakes in the grass are just waiting to make a deal and it's going to cost US if they do. It will cost us allies and business which will affect our economy.

And I will NOT side with bullying. Even if it's the US doing it.

[Abbey Marie]

First and foremost ... Trump doesn't need to show Un or anyone else, ANYTHING. When you have to say it the only thing you are proving is insecurity.

Second, for all intents and REAL purposes, North Korea is not our business. We don't rule the World which is apprently the current mindset of many here in the US. I just saw a few minutes ago on the news Trump is threatening sanctions against some European country over their airbuses having accidents if they don't fix it his way. Get over the power trip already.

Perception IS reality. Trump came in hammer all over Un until Un backed down, agreed to disarm and agreed to meet with Trump. Ratcheting up the rhetoric is NOT a pat on the head. It's kicking someone in the teeth that's holding out his hand. Trump has artfully allowed a contrite and willing to play nice Un put him in the position of being a bully and not giving Mr Get Along a chance to. Like it or not, world opinion DOES matter.

When you compound that with the other things he's done that r=created a major impact in the World recently, they only used to think they hated us. Now they're probably sure the do. There are other people in the world to turn to besides us and the snakes in the grass are just waiting to make a deal and it's going to cost US if they do. It will cost us allies and business which will affect our economy.

And I will NOT side with bullying. Even if it's the US doing it.


I agree with your argument that we should *generally not be the world’s savior. Or conscience, I guess.

But while we may think he’s wrongly interfering in other countries’ affairs, libs were screaming that he was going to make us isolationist and ruin the world. This man cannot win no matter what he does.

[FakeNewsSux]

First and foremost ... Trump doesn't need to show Un or anyone else, ANYTHING. When you have to say it the only thing you are proving is insecurity.

Second, for all intents and REAL purposes, North Korea is not our business. We don't rule the World which is apprently the current mindset of many here in the US. I just saw a few minutes ago on the news Trump is threatening sanctions against some European country over their airbuses having accidents if they don't fix it his way. Get over the power trip already.

Perception IS reality. Trump came in hammer all over Un until Un backed down, agreed to disarm and agreed to meet with Trump. Ratcheting up the rhetoric is NOT a pat on the head. It's kicking someone in the teeth that's holding out his hand. Trump has artfully allowed a contrite and willing to play nice Un put him in the position of being a bully and not giving Mr Get Along a chance to. Like it or not, world opinion DOES matter.

When you compound that with the other things he's done that r=created a major impact in the World recently, they only used to think they hated us. Now they're probably sure the do. There are other people in the world to turn to besides us and the snakes in the grass are just waiting to make a deal and it's going to cost US if they do. It will cost us allies and business which will affect our economy.

And I will NOT side with bullying. Even if it's the US doing it.


I'm not sure that NK is none of our business. NK has been serving as a proxy tool of Chinese foreign policy for quite a few decades. NK's belligerent foreign activities against SK, Japan, Guam, Hawaii, et al have all been with China's blessing to test reactions for the purpose of military intel. These actions by Kim have bought him cover and favors from China while allowing China to portray itself as the regional peacemaker. I agree that the future of NK is not and should not be a area of grave concern for our country but using our response to NK's nuke program as a proxy for our response to Chinese military aggression in Asia is a measured response without pushing a direct confrontation with China while delivering a strong message to Beijing.

[Gunny]

I agree with your argument that we should *generally not be the world’s savior. Or conscience, I guess.

But while we may think he’s wrongly interfering in other countries’ affairs, libs were screaming that he was going to make us isolationist and ruin the world. This man cannot win no matter what he does.In effect, he IS isolating us. pissing off your allies at every turn while pushing them into the open arms of your snickering enemies kinda does that.

When you bully people they resent you and look for a way to deal without you. Technically, right now? We've been told by the major world powers we don't need you and we're staying and the country with the power to make them dance is Iran.

Same with N Korea. W're now the bullies in the eyes of world public opinion and it DOES matter.

I don't care about getting out of the Iranian deal because it was no deal. Screw them. MINUS threatening sanctions against allies that stick to the deal and continue to do business with Iran. That is NOT our place. Nobody died and made us God to tell everyone what to do on their own time. For the billionth time, if we nuked Iran right now I'd sleep fine tonight.

If we blew NK off the map same thing. Stop dorking around and do it while we still can. The United States is not as big as Americans think it is. We can't fight the world and win.

[Gunny]

I'm not sure that NK is none of our business. NK has been serving as a proxy tool of Chinese foreign policy for quite a few decades. NK's belligerent foreign activities against SK, Japan, Guam, Hawaii, et al have all been with China's blessing to test reactions for the purpose of military intel. These actions by Kim have bought him cover and favors from China while allowing China to portray itself as the regional peacemaker. I agree that the future of NK is not and should not be a area of grave concern for our country but using our response to NK's nuke program as a proxy for our response to Chinese military aggression in Asia is a measured response without pushing a direct confrontation with China while delivering a strong message to Beijing.

Again, why do we need to deliver any messages? I think we did that already with the money. We've done it by driving our navy right up next to their little man-made islands. Trump nailed them economically and got a better deal out of them. So they say, anyway.

Fact is, ALL of our enemies are biding their time until they get powerful enough to kick our ass. They resent us for being on top so long and they want some of the power and they're getting it and we're getting in their way.

Trump, IMO and I said it then, messed up when he even acknowledged Un's existence. I would have ignored the little bastard the same way I used to drunks in bars that wanted to prove they could kick a Marine's ass. I had nothing to prove.

Insecure people do.

[Black Diamond]

Again, why do we need to deliver any messages? I think we did that already with the money. We've done it by driving our navy right up next to their little man-made islands. Trump nailed them economically and got a better deal out of them. So they say, anyway.

Fact is, ALL of our enemies are biding their time until they get powerful enough to kick our ass. They resent us for being on top so long and they want some of the power and they're getting it and we're getting in their way.

Trump, IMO and I said it then, messed up when he even acknowledged Un's existence. I would have ignored the little bastard the same way I used to drunks in bars that wanted to prove they could kick a Marine's ass. I had nothing to prove.

Insecure people do.
To make up for the last 8 years of messages that we would just as soon piss on Israel and kiss our enemies asses with money and apology tours. Europe loved Obama because he did everything the way they would. Enemies don't want to kick our ass any more or less than they did when Obama was president.

[Black Diamond]

The pendulum has swung. If people don't like it, maybe they should have elected Romney.

[aboutime]

Though I tend to differ with Gunny's opinion. We both know. We served our country to enable ALL OF US to speak as we want here.
I do believe...IMO, that newcomers to DP, reading what Gunny has said in this thread...would probably think Gunny is sounding more like a liberal in many ways.
Where I can't understand is...That Trump...despite all of the negatives directed his way...IS NOT becoming, or practicing the NEVILLE CHAMBERLAIN tactics where the USA would be safer by DOING NOTHING, and minding our own business in this UPSIDE DOWN WORLD Today.

Just my opinion, even as I wonder when Gunny will understand...He's no longer on Active Duty??

With all due respect Gunny. SEMPER FI!

[Gunny]

To make up for the last 8 years of messages that we would just as soon piss on Israel and kiss our enemies asses with money and apology tours. Europe loved Obama because he did everything the way they would. Enemies don't want to kick our ass any more or less than they did when Obama was president.We don't have to make up for anything. Those 8 years are over.

[Gunny]

Though I tend to differ with Gunny's opinion. We both know. We served our country to enable ALL OF US to speak as we want here.
I do believe...IMO, that newcomers to DP, reading what Gunny has said in this thread...would probably think Gunny is sounding more like a liberal in many ways.
Where I can't understand is...That Trump...despite all of the negatives directed his way...IS NOT becoming, or practicing the NEVILLE CHAMBERLAIN tactics where the USA would be safer by DOING NOTHING, and minding our own business in this UPSIDE DOWN WORLD Today.

Just my opinion, even as I wonder when Gunny will understand...He's no longer on Active Duty??

With all due respect Gunny. SEMPER FI!I don't know what being on active duty has to do with it. Negotiating with someone was around before me and will be after. They give classes on it at SDSU.

Y'all are stretching this a bit far. I don't sound like no freakin' leftwingnut. I sound like somebody that can think with his brain instead of his ego and emotions.

But y'all have fun. I'm tired of the topic and not going to listen to any of this bullshit. I give Trump credit where it is due. However, I am NOT a Trump fanboy and I'm going to call it like I see it when he's screwing up. Especially when the stakes are my childrens' and grandchildrens' futures. I don't want them wearing towels on their heads or speaking Russian because of one man's ego.

[aboutime]

I don't know what being on active duty has to do with it. Negotiating with someone was around before me and will be after. They give classes on it at SDSU.

Y'all are stretching this a bit far. I don't sound like no freakin' leftwingnut. I sound like somebody that can think with his brain instead of his ego and emotions.

But y'all have fun. I'm tired of the topic and not going to listen to any of this bullshit. I give Trump credit where it is due. However, I am NOT a Trump fanboy and I'm going to call it like I see it when he's screwing up. Especially when the stakes are my childrens' and grandchildrens' futures. I don't want them wearing towels on their heads or speaking Russian because of one man's ego.


Why do you need to be so pissed at us for doing the same thing you are doing???
I was trying to tell you...you have to remember...you, and I are no longer in uniform. So using the Corps as your constant example of how you feel, or act....IS OVER NOW.
We all come here to talk with each other...as you told me long ago. So now. If you don't want to hear what we say...YOU GET PISSED??? What's up wit dat???

[Gunny]

Why do you need to be so pissed at us for doing the same thing you are doing???
I was trying to tell you...you have to remember...you, and I are no longer in uniform. So using the Corps as your constant example of how you feel, or act....IS OVER NOW.
We all come here to talk with each other...as you told me long ago. So now. If you don't want to hear what we say...YOU GET PISSED??? What's up wit dat???Whatever. I'm not. You're timing is bad.

I will point out that I didn't make it personal. My duty status has absolutely nothing to do with the topic or my post.

If you are referring to the language in my initial post I explained it first sentence. I was born and raised in the military and was in it. This is how I think, like it or not.

[Black Diamond]

Though I tend to differ with Gunny's opinion. We both know. We served our country to enable ALL OF US to speak as we want here.
I do believe...IMO, that newcomers to DP, reading what Gunny has said in this thread...would probably think Gunny is sounding more like a liberal in many ways.
Where I can't understand is...That Trump...despite all of the negatives directed his way...IS NOT becoming, or practicing the NEVILLE CHAMBERLAIN tactics where the USA would be safer by DOING NOTHING, and minding our own business in this UPSIDE DOWN WORLD Today.

Just my opinion, even as I wonder when Gunny will understand...He's no longer on Active Duty??

With all due respect Gunny. SEMPER FI!
I just got home so I missed the last few posts. He doesn't sound like a leftwing nut. I am just happy about the change of pace with the new administration.

[Gunny]

Why do you need to be so pissed at us for doing the same thing you are doing???
I was trying to tell you...you have to remember...you, and I are no longer in uniform. So using the Corps as your constant example of how you feel, or act....IS OVER NOW.
We all come here to talk with each other...as you told me long ago. So now. If you don't want to hear what we say...YOU GET PISSED??? What's up wit dat???AND ... the "new person who might think I'm whatever y'all label a "liberal" these days?" Jake Starkey has known me longer than you have and he damned well knows I'm not.

Just like YOU know I'm not.

[Black Diamond]

Well I missed it. I had to fix a cluster fuck at my parents house, as they are out of town for six months. I'll catch it next time.

[Gunny]

Well I missed it. I had to fix a cluster fuck at my parents house, as they are out of town for six months. I'll catch it next time.What change of pace are you referring to?

As far as I personally am concerned? I've given Trump rops for everything he's done that I have agreed with; which, is a lot. I take nothing from that. My opinion is he needs to stick to domestic issues because he's a foreign relations disaster. That's my opinion based on HIS actions, not mine and it sure as hell doesn't relegate me to the leftwingnut camp.

In comparison, when Bush invaded Iraq I was ALL OVER calling THAT stupid. History has proven me correct. That aside, same people for the most part, different board, and i didn't get the same "you must hate Bush, you're a lefty, BS". Of course, you could actually discuss an issue without getting some partisan insult for a response THEN.

I think he's fucking up with foreign relations and that's the bottom line cuz stone Cold said so.

.

[aboutime]

AND ... the "new person who might think I'm whatever y'all label a "liberal" these days?" Jake Starkey has known me longer than you have and he damned well knows I'm not.

Just like YOU know I'm not.


Of course. I didn't say you were. I just said a new visitor to DP might interpret what you had said as leaning toward the liberal side. I guess I'll just stop responding to anything you say. Last thing I want to do is upset, offend, or insult anyone. That sounds like I've become a Liberal now!:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Gunny]

Of course. I didn't say you were. I just said a new visitor to DP might interpret what you had said as leaning toward the liberal side. I guess I'll just stop responding to anything you say. Last thing I want to do is upset, offend, or insult anyone. That sounds like I've become a Liberal now!:laugh::laugh::laugh:

You haven't upset or offended me in the least. I've just had my quota of bullshit for the day clean up to my eyes and it had nothing to do with you. I'm tired of the topic. We're supposed to be better than the left. Not from where I'm sitting when we can't even have an honest discussion based on facts and figures about Trump if it in any way makes a negative statement.

[Abbey Marie]

Well I missed it. I had to fix a cluster fuck at my parents house, as they are out of town for six months. I'll catch it next time.

Oh, do please tell. I’m curious...

[Gunny]

Oh, do please tell. I’m curious...I've been kind of on and off too so I haven't really been able to just go straight at anything. Daughter's sick and SIL took her to the hospital and I got stuck (in order) filling the pool and entertaining the 5 years old, get both girls through the bath and making them dinner, lunch for the youngest because she won't eat school lunches, wash and steam the little one's bottles for tomorrow, laundry, and then my daughter came home with our (adults) dinner.

So I was bouncing around all over the place. I'm too old for this crap :laugh:

[Kathianne]

I've been kind of on and off too so I haven't really been able to just go straight at anything. Daughter's sick and SIL took her to the hospital and I got stuck (in order) filling the pool and entertaining the 5 years old, get both girls through the bath and making them dinner, lunch for the youngest because she won't eat school lunches, wash and steam the little one's bottles for tomorrow, laundry, and then my daughter came home with our (adults) dinner.

So I was bouncing around all over the place. I'm too old for this crap :laugh:

Obviously you're not too old. :laugh2:

[FakeNewsSux]

To assuage our allies concerns that we are unnecessarily picking on the poor little genocidal sociopath in Pyongyang, maybe Trump should offer to help Kim produce and promote a fundraising album titled "Songs From My Father". This could show off Kim's softer side while helping him earn some much needed goodwill and hard currency. It would be highlighted by his father's hit from the Hollywood blockbuster, "Team America":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEaKX9YYHiQ

Pres. Trump could also calm Democrat fears about his foreign policy by reaching across the aisle and get Pres. Obama to claim that this album should be as successful as his book, "Dreams From My Father". Maybe he could get Bill Ayers to do a duet with Joan Baez of her classic "Joe Hill" but rename it in honor of Kim's father, "Jong Il" (I dreamed I saw Jong Il last night, alive as you and me...):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-JW4DKxwQM

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I've been kind of on and off too so I haven't really been able to just go straight at anything. Daughter's sick and SIL took her to the hospital and I got stuck (in order) filling the pool and entertaining the 5 years old, get both girls through the bath and making them dinner, lunch for the youngest because she won't eat school lunches, wash and steam the little one's bottles for tomorrow, laundry, and then my daughter came home with our (adults) dinner.

So I was bouncing around all over the place. I'm too old for this crap :laugh:
Cardio... ;)