The Popes New Level Of Disgrace To Written Biblical Scripture...

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I can't believe this man. Does he really know what the Bible says? Why is he openly contradicting what GOD said? It's blasphemy, by any definition of the word. I'm not catholic, but this Pope is an absolute disgrace to Christianity, under any denomination. I'm starting to get the impression that this Pope is a homo himself.



Pope's reported comment to a gay man may indicate a new level of acceptance of homosexuality

Pope Francis has reportedly told a gay man that "God made you that way and loves you as you are," apparently pushing the pontiff's acceptance of homosexuality to a new level.


http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-pope-chile-gay-20180520-story.html

[darin]

he's not wrong. God made people the way people are. God's love knows no limits.

God didn't 'make them gay', though, because God doens't control our choices.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

he's not wrong. God made people the way people are. God's love knows no limits.

God didn't 'make them gay', though, because God doens't control our choices.
Well, you're wrong too, because God says homosexuality is an abomination.

You're both implying false witness against God's very own words written in the Bible.

Homosexuality comes straight from Satan.

[Kathianne]

Where does any temptation come from? Does God hate sinners at all times or just certain sinners?

Where does grace come from?

Which of God's children does the Bible tell us to hate?

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Where does any temptation come from? Does God hate sinners at all times or just certain sinners?

Where does grace come from?

Which of God's children does the Bible tell us to hate?
You're getting off topic.

The words of "God":

Leviticus 20:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

[Abbey Marie]

Let’s not confuse two distinct things.

Thing One- whether or not homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible.

Thing Two- whether or not God (and we) have love and compassion for gays.

According to both the OT and the NT, it is a sin. If you are a Bible-believing Christian, this Pope errs when he implies that God is fine with the behavior. And as the infallible leader of many millions of Christians, this is sad.

Does not mean that the Pope or we should be less than compassionate. We all sin, so we all need to show love to others.

Whether people are born gay, as this Pope implies, who knows? They won’t allow the research needed. And even if some are born that way, today we have all sorts of people experimenting with it, like trying a new pizza topping.

[Gunny]

Let’s not confuse two distinct things.

Thing One- whether or not homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible.

Thing Two- whether or not God (and we) have love and compassion for gays.

According to both the OT and the NT, it is a sin. If you are a Bible-believing Christian, this Pope errs when he implies that God is fine with the behavior. And as the infallible leader of many millions of Christians, this is sad.

Does not mean that the Pope or we should be less than compassionate. We all sin, so we all need to show love to others.

Whether people are born gay, as this Pope implies, who knows? They won’t allow the research needed. And even if some are born that way, today we have all sorts of people experimenting with it, like trying a new pizza topping.I agree completely.

I don't think society, nor the Church, ANY church, should alter God's words either. The word of God does not change because decadent societies finds it convenient. So, IMO, no, it's not okay with God.

Is it my business unless it directly affects me? No. Does what the Pope have to say mean anything to a Southern Baptist? No. Do I think that given the affect the Pope's words have on about half the World that he should be more responsible with what he says? Yep.

[Kathianne]

Let’s not confuse two distinct things.

Thing One- whether or not homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible.

Thing Two- whether or not God (and we) have love and compassion for gays.

According to both the OT and the NT, it is a sin. If you are a Bible-believing Christian, this Pope errs when he implies that God is fine with the behavior. And as the infallible leader of many millions of Christians, this is sad.

Does not mean that the Pope or we should be less than compassionate. We all sin, so we all need to show love to others.

Whether people are born gay, as this Pope implies, who knows? They won’t allow the research needed. And even if some are born that way, today we have all sorts of people experimenting with it, like trying a new pizza topping.

Well said.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Let’s not confuse two distinct things.

Thing One- whether or not homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible.

Thing Two- whether or not God (and we) have love and compassion for gays.

According to both the OT and the NT, it is a sin. If you are a Bible-believing Christian, this Pope errs when he implies that God is fine with the behavior. And as the infallible leader of many millions of Christians, this is sad.

Does not mean that the Pope or we should be less than compassionate. We all sin, so we all need to show love to others.

Whether people are born gay, as this Pope implies, who knows? They won’t allow the research needed. And even if some are born that way, today we have all sorts of people experimenting with it, like trying a new pizza topping.
I've always been in the camp of "hate the sin not the sinner," but it just gets under my craw when this obviously progressive Pope spouts off things that are obviously contradictory to what the word of God is as written right in the Bible he's supposed to be the highest of the high to represent.

But another issue with me is, even if you hate the sin but not the sinner, where do you draw the line with that? Where does the sin end the sinner begin? How is it really that they should be separated? Is the sinner not the sin by committing the sin? I struggle with that...

[darin]

Well, you're wrong too, because God says homosexuality is an abomination.

You're both implying false witness against God's very own words written in the Bible.

Homosexuality comes straight from Satan.

I wrote "god created man" the way man is - including the choice to sin. Then I wrote - "despite man's decisions, God loves mankind" I'm not wrong; not wrong biblically nor morally.


Let’s not confuse two distinct things.

Thing One- whether or not homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible.

Thing Two- whether or not God (and we) have love and compassion for gays.

According to both the OT and the NT, it is a sin. If you are a Bible-believing Christian, this Pope errs when he implies that God is fine with the behavior. And as the infallible leader of many millions of Christians, this is sad.

Does not mean that the Pope or we should be less than compassionate. We all sin, so we all need to show love to others.

Whether people are born gay, as this Pope implies, who knows? They won’t allow the research needed. And even if some are born that way, today we have all sorts of people experimenting with it, like trying a new pizza topping.

So me and you say the same thing in essense yet I am "implying false witness against God's very own words written in the Bible." Must be your woman's touch :)

General statement, not to you specifically Abbey:

Instead of digging through scriptures to create lists of what is or isn't sin, maybe The Church should focus first on Christ's most-important commandments: Love God AND your neighbor. Instead of thinking we 'do sins' (which i am convinced nothing we actually do IS the sin; sin is the condition of our heart that limits our ability to connect with our Creator - the actions are just the symptoms are are probably, spirtually, less important than our heart condition), maybe - just maybe we strive to learn to love people the way they (and/or God) wishes us to love them. It's not Love your neighbor the way YOU want to be loved, it's speak THEIR language by loving them how they want/need to be loved. :)

[Gunny]

I've always been in the camp of "hate the sin not the sinner," but it just gets under my craw when this obviously progressive Pope spouts off things that are obviously contradictory to what the word of God is as written right in the Bible he's supposed to be the highest of the high to represent.

But another issue with me is, even if you hate the sin but not the sinner, where do you draw the line with that? Where does the sin end the sinner begin? How is it really that they should be separated? Is the sinner not the sin by committing the sin? I struggle with that...Where it ends with me? Does it affect me. It has had a negative impact on our society as whole. It's represented as WAY more mainstream than it is in the media. Same goes or any other weirdo group except whites. We're just racists when we get covered.

Can I do anything about it? When it comes up for a vote, I make sure I vote. Otherwise, I can't do anything about it, and it isn't up to me to tell others how to get right with God. If I'm asked I will point you to someone who can teach you more than I can. But getting right with God is between each individual and God. There's no buying your way out, getting a stand in or "missing the meeting". It's you and God and you will answer for yourself, not others.

Don't know about you, but I got enough crap under my belt to answer for without taking on someone's else's sins.

The way I read it many moons ago IF the pope or any other person leads people down the wrong path in the name of God, that person will have to answer for it. To God. Not me.

[revelarts]

OK so a few questions...
would the Pope tell a Serial Killer "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"
would the Pope tell a Pedophile "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"
would the Pope tell an unrepentant serial adulterer "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"
would the Pope tell a Klepomanic "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"
would the Pope tell a unrepentant wife beater "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"
would the Pope tell an "animal lover" "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"
would the Pope tell a necrophile "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"

Somehow i don't think so. Pressures of current social politics playing on this Pope much?
Maybe it's pressure of the homosexual and or pedophile Priest and Cardinals lobby in Rome?


Jesus told the woman caught in adultery, "neither do i condemn you, go and sin no more."
Paul said
...Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God...
Corinthians 6 -11


Seems to me folks -especially Christians- should take the words of Paul and Jesus OVER any preacher, Pope, "feelings" or pseudo-science that says anything otherwise.

Yes, God loves us All from Hitler to the kid that only stole a candy bar. but He doesn't gloss over sin. He die for them all.
Pretending that any of them are of God's making and they should go unaddressed is not what the Bible ask us to imply to "sinners".
neither has scripture asked us to make compromises with sin so we don't offend.
Jesus didn't say things that made everyone feel good about their sin did he? He died for them so we could bring them to him and LEAVE them at the cross. daily if we have to.

[darin]

Paul said in Corinthians of the Christians arious sinner in include
Jesus told the woman caught in adultery, "neither do i condemn you, go and sin no more."
Paul said
...Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God...
Corinthians 6 -11


Seems to me folks -especially Christians- should take the words of Paul and Jesus OVER any preacher, Pope, "feelings" or pseudo-science that says anything otherwise.

you just wrote the whole solution. God puts homosexuality upon the same level as people who fuck around (king david), people who steal from others (tax collectors), greedy (progressives/liberals) and swindlers (obama, clinton). And then what happens?

You = all of us.
Were sactified = how? Through Christ.

Remember, at the end of time hell and sin and death are consumed by god's love (lake of fire) and through the process Christ's words are fullfilled:

You SHALL love the lord your god with all your heart mind and soul. You SHALL love your neighbors as yourselves. "shall love" sounds more like prophecy.

just as many were condemned - without their choice or action - in Sin through adam, in Christ ALL shall be saved.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

The greek use the word pas for all, pas means "the whole, entire"

so - again, if we stop worrying about this shit and spend more time learning to Love, which is God, the better we and the world around us becomes.

[Black Diamond]

OK so a few questions...
would the Pope tell a Serial Killer "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"
would the Pope tell a Pedophile "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"
would the Pope tell an unrepentant serial adulterer "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"
would the Pope tell a Klepomanic "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"
would the Pope tell a unrepentant wife beater "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"
would the Pope tell an "animal lover" "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"
would the Pope tell a necrophile "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"

Somehow i don't think so. Pressures of current social politics playing on this Pope much?
Maybe it's pressure of the homosexual and or pedophile Priest and Cardinals lobby in Rome?


Jesus told the woman caught in adultery, "neither do i condemn you, go and sin no more."
Paul said
...Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God...
Corinthians 6 -11


Seems to me folks -especially Christians- should take the words of Paul and Jesus OVER any preacher, Pope, "feelings" or pseudo-science that says anything otherwise.
All good points. But given the Catholic church's complicity in raping altar boys, why would they have anything to say discouraging homosexuality?

[Black Diamond]

you just wrote the whole solution. God puts homosexuality upon the same level as people who fuck around (king david), people who steal from others (tax collectors), greedy (progressives/liberals) and swindlers (obama, clinton). And then what happens?

You = all of us.
Were sactified = how? Through Christ.

Remember, at the end of time hell and sin and death are consumed by god's love (lake of fire) and through the process Christ's words are fullfilled:

You SHALL love the lord your god with all your heart mind and soul. You SHALL love your neighbors as yourselves. "shall love" sounds more like prophecy.

just as many were condemned - without their choice or action - in Sin through adam, in Christ ALL shall be saved.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

The greek use the word pas for all, pas means "the whole, entire"

so - again, if we stop worrying about this shit and spend more time learning to Love, which is God, the better we and the world around us becomes. revelarts. Abbey. David repented ???

[Black Diamond]

I think sin is sin, but to be fair David did s little more than "fuck around".

[darin]

Jesus told the woman caught in adultery, "neither do i condemn you, go and sin no more."
Paul said
...Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God...
Corinthians 6 -11
.

For what it's worth, the original greek doesn't mention homosexuality specifically in that scripture. It's added by some translations, not contained in others.

[darin]

revelarts. Abbey. David repented ???

why are you asking them spefically? :)

Google it - biblegateway shows scripture in dozens of translations.

David didn't repent while he was doing those things. David didnt repent until, essentially, the end of the story. Give people the chance to figure shit out - even if its not until the end of the story. Bashing well-meaning believers because we don't agree with their specific (and ultimately not so important) differences in theogy is really...

sinful. :)

[Black Diamond]

why are you asking them spefically? :)

Google it - biblegateway shows scripture in dozens of translations.

David didn't repent while he was doing those things. David didnt repent until, essentially, the end of the story. Give people the chance to figure shit out - even if its not until the end of the story. Bashing well-meaning believers because we don't agree with their specific (and ultimately not so important) differences in theogy is really...

sinful. :)
He eventually repented IIRC. That's my point. He didn't remain in murder/adultery. But actually David lived under a different covenant..... The old one.

[Black Diamond]

why are you asking them spefically? :)

Google it - biblegateway shows scripture in dozens of translations.

David didn't repent while he was doing those things. David didnt repent until, essentially, the end of the story. Give people the chance to figure shit out - even if its not until the end of the story. Bashing well-meaning believers because we don't agree with their specific (and ultimately not so important) differences in theogy is really...

sinful. :)
Plus rev and abs have a quicker answer.

[darin]

He eventually repented IIRC. That's my point. He didn't remain in murder/adultery. But actually David lived under a different covenant..... The old one.

and that's my point. "eventually" - and David went through ups and downs. Sometimes he was doing / showing love, and other times, he was sinning. Its a process. A marathon not a sprint.


For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
romans 11:30

again the greek uses 'pas' which means: the whole, entire.

[darin]

Plus rev and abs have a quicker answer.

I can't speak for rev, but i know abbey would reply in love, kindness and stuff - her replies here are golden. They are money. Even when she and I disagree on the finer points of theology, she's one to reply - even in her most-frustrated moments - with a heart of compassion many people are unable to match.

[Black Diamond]

I can't speak for rev, but i know abbey would reply in love, kindness and stuff - her replies here are golden. They are money. Even when she and I disagree on the finer points of theology, she's one to reply - even in her most-frustrated moments - with a heart of compassion many people are unable to match.
I imagine so.

[Gunny]

I can't speak for rev, but i know abbey would reply in love, kindness and stuff - her replies here are golden. They are money. Even when she and I disagree on the finer points of theology, she's one to reply - even in her most-frustrated moments - with a heart of compassion many people are unable to match.Especially when you're being a pain in the ass about theology. :)

[revelarts]

you just wrote the whole solution. God puts homosexuality upon the same level as people who fuck around (king david), people who steal from others (tax collectors), greedy (progressives/liberals) and swindlers (obama, clinton). And then what happens?
You = all of us. Were sactified = how? Through Christ.
Remember, at the end of time hell and sin and death are consumed by god's love (lake of fire) and through the process Christ's words are fullfilled: You SHALL love the lord your god with all your heart mind and soul. You SHALL love your neighbors as yourselves. "shall love" sounds more like prophecy.
just as many were condemned - without their choice or action - in Sin through adam, in Christ ALL shall be saved.
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. The greek use the word pas for all, pas means "the whole, entire"
so - again, if we stop worrying about this shit and spend more time learning to Love, which is God, the better we and the world around us becomes.
following the verses i quoted earlier there's this"
"Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies."



It goes on similarly, but somehow you keep saying that EVERYONE should "stop worrying about this shit". By "shit" you seem to mean:
talking about sin,
dealing with personal sin,
acknowledging personal sin,
pointing out sin
or even determining what is sin biblically speaking,
But here's my problem with that, the Apostle Paul's does it all! After Jesus's resurrection no less.
And teaches the Churches to do it. And by inspiration of the the Holy Spirit tells all Christians to DEAL with it as well... TODAY.
So sorry dude, I don't buy what you're selling, you should re-check yourself.

[Gunny]

following the verses i quoted earlier there's this"
"Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies."



It goes on similarly, but somehow you keep saying that EVERYONE should "stop worrying about this shit". By "shit" you seem to mean:
talking about sin,
dealing with personal sin,
acknowledging personal sin,
pointing out sin
or even determining what is sin biblically speaking,
But here's my problem with that, the Apostle Paul's does it all! After Jesus's resurrection no less.
And teaches the Churches to do it. And by inspiration of the the Holy Spirit tells all Christians to DEAL with it as well... TODAY.
So sorry dude, I don't buy what you're selling, you should re-check yourself.

So deal with it. You take care of you, and I will take care of me. If EVERYONE does that, there'll be no problem.

And we'll STILL ALL be sinners.

[darin]

following the verses i quoted earlier there's this"
"Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies."



Except nothing we can do can save us. We are not saved by works (or lack of works) - that's a simple christian principle.





It goes on similarly, but somehow you keep saying that EVERYONE should "stop worrying about this shit". By "shit" you seem to mean:
talking about sin,
dealing with personal sin,
acknowledging personal sin,
pointing out sin
or even determining what is sin biblically speaking,
But here's my problem with that, the Apostle Paul's does it all! After Jesus's resurrection no less.
And teaches the Churches to do it. And by inspiration of the the Holy Spirit tells all Christians to DEAL with it as well... TODAY.
So sorry dude, I don't buy what you're selling, you should re-check yourself.

Yep. Because of the sinophiles - and i think you're one - are hyper-focused on shit that doesn't ultimately matter, you are driving people away from loving relationships with God. I think you are the type of person who would be PISSED if 'everyone went to heaven' - after all...LOOK at what you've done!

You've healed the sick - in the name of Christ!
You've held food drives - in the name of Christ!
And by God you pointed out the sin in EVERYONE lives - in the name of Christ!

And what does God value more than any of that? More than preaching to anyone? More than worrying about their sex life?

When somebody is thirsty, you give them drink. When they are hungry - you feed them. When they show up at your house and are alone, you invite them in. When they are sick, you spend time with them. Your actions wont save you nor will your in-action - what saves you is the love in your heart as shown by how you conduct yourself.

Looking for OMGWTFSIN!!! serves only the ego. Serves only somebody who has something to sell.

As for me? And i think for Christ? I'd rather - and he prefers - I love people more than I try to OMGWTFCONVERT OR DIE IN HELL!!!

(sigh)


At the end of time Heaven. The essence of Heaven which IS God who IS Love will consume hell and death.


Of course - then there's the case of "Christ already freed those held captive in hell and has locked the gates of hell" - since Christ decended nobody is in hell. And since God used Christ to show mercy upon All, All will have mercy.

Because Sin doesn't matter....because it's already been defeated 2000 years ago - from our perspective, anyway. Probably millions of years ago depending on where the viewer is. Because thats how space-time works. :)

[darin]

So deal with it. You take care of you, and I will take care of me. If EVERYONE does that, there'll be no problem.

And we'll STILL ALL be sinners.

Rev would have to disagree with that last part. Because if we are all sinners Christ wouldn't have charged 'the woman' to 'go and sin no more'. Clearly Christ thinks we can actually sin no more. Thus, we all are NOT sinners. :)

[revelarts]

you just wrote the whole solution. God puts homosexuality upon the same level as people who fuck around (king david), people who steal from others (tax collectors), greedy (progressives/liberals) and swindlers (obama, clinton). And then what happens? You = all of us.
Were sactified = how? Through Christ.
Remember, at the end of time hell and sin and death are consumed by god's love (lake of fire) and through the process Christ's words are fullfilled:
You SHALL love the lord your god with all your heart mind and soul. You SHALL love your neighbors as yourselves. "shall love" sounds more like prophecy.
just as many were condemned - without their choice or action - in Sin through adam, in Christ ALL shall be saved.
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
The greek use the word pas for all, pas means "the whole, entire"
so - again, if we stop worrying about this shit and spend more time learning to Love, which is God, the better we and the world around us becomes.

"spend more time learning to Love" is great. BUT the problem with that is ...and the reason for much of Paul's letter is... that the people, EVEN IN the CHURCH, did not realize that their actions were wrong/"not loving".
That their actions were in fact sinful/unacceptable to God, and they should stop THAT activity
and spend more time Loving in godly ways.

Also seems to me, Soft peddling to a soft hearted person that already realizes that their actions are sinful is appropriate.
But soft peddling to someone who wants to believe that none of their actions are a problem, or who is genuinely UNAWARE they they are NOT acting in a loving way to others... by God's/Biblical standards... is counterproductive.
And allows them to believe they ARE serving/loving God with their actions when in fact they are not. Allowing them to think/believe lies.
And in a public setting we don't know who's soft hearted, and who's ignorant, and who's looking for justification of whatever they do.
So IMO it seems more appropriate to give the WHOLE council, not only the side that allows people to "feel" better, no matter what they continue to do.

The message that Jesus, Peter, Paul and all the apostles past on was "Repent" and "Believe in the Lord Jesus for the forgiveness of all your sin. And become Sons and Daughters of God"
After we believe Paul and the others tell us how to walk the new life out, as in Thessalonians

4 ...As for other matters, brothers and sisters, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more. For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control your own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the pagans, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong or take advantage of a brother or sister. The Lord will punish all those who commit such sins, as we told you and warned you before. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, anyone who rejects this instruction does not reject a human being but God, the very God who gives you his Holy Spirit...



Darin, seriously man, re-check what you're saying. we don't ignore or reject the instruction. it parts of the package. Promoting Love and personally holiness ...staying away from sin a defined by God. They are NOT contradictory or a distraction from "love" but a necessary compliment.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I pretty much expected this would get hijacted into a full blown faith and sin debate, but the thread and my point is about this leftist Pope. I think he could be a closet homo. He's condoned same sex marriage and now condones sexual perversion. Both in direct violation of the word of God in the Bible. My point is, he's supposed to be the highest of the high man of God on earth, and here he is openly disparaging and opposing the words of GOD, the GOD he is supposed to represent. THAT is what ticks me off. I think he's just another garden variety hyper politically correct European liberal. People listen to this liberal nut bag, and I don't think they should. He's not accurately representing the word of God. The Bible also says, and I paraphrase, that those who proclaim to be holy and knowledgeable of the Bible, they will be held to a higher judgement before God than those who don't, so this Pope should be, but I bet he isn't, worried about how he's going to explain his love and acceptance for fags when he stands before God on his judgement day. I'd love to hear his explanation to God on how he knows GOD MADE QUEERS, when the words of God say they're an abomination, and they shall be put to death, and their blood shall be upon them. Doesn't sound like something GOD made to me, sounds like something SATAN made.

I wouldn't want to be the Pope... he's going to be on the hot seat when he dies.

[revelarts]

you just wrote the whole solution. God puts homosexuality upon the same level as people who fuck around (king david), people who steal from others (tax collectors), greedy (progressives/liberals) and swindlers (obama, clinton). And then what happens?

You = all of us.
Were sactified = how? Through Christ.

Remember, at the end of time hell and sin and death are consumed by god's love (lake of fire) and through the process Christ's words are fullfilled:

You SHALL love the lord your god with all your heart mind and soul. You SHALL love your neighbors as yourselves. "shall love" sounds more like prophecy.

just as many were condemned - without their choice or action - in Sin through adam, in Christ ALL shall be saved.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

The greek use the word pas for all, pas means "the whole, entire"

so - again, if we stop worrying about this shit and spend more time learning to Love, which is God, the better we and the world around us becomes.

I've imagined that in areas of public controversy, among Christians and/or the "pagans", a Pope could just quote or cite appropriate scripture without a word of commentary.
And let folks deal with it.
At that point it's not about "what the Pope said" it's up to people whether or not they will simply be honest about what the text says or if they are going to twist into pretzels trying to make it fit their agendas

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I've imagined that in areas of public controversy, among Christians and/or the "pagans", a Pope could just quote or cite appropriate scripture without a word of commentary.
And let folks deal with it.
At that point it's not about "what the Pope said" it's up to people whether or not they will simply be honest about what the text says or if they are going to twist into pretzels trying to make it fit their agendas
No man is supposed to either take away or add too the words in the Bible.

The Pope is making crap up, speaking as though he knows God better than the words in the Bible... that's blasphemy, and coming from the Pope, it's actually worse than that.

[Gunny]

No man is supposed to either take away or add too the words in the Bible.

The Pope is making crap up, speaking as though he knows God better than the words in the Bible... that's blasphemy, and coming from the Pope, it's actually worse than that.Getting pissed off about it isn't changing a thing. The Pope is just another person with an opinion to me. Personally, I don't see why gets the media attention that he does. I don't see why the Catholic Church is placed on a pedestal. I don't see why it has the money it does and it has a rather nefarious past from the Inquisitions to the Crusades to Hitler.

But it does. Not any dummer than Jim Bakker. It is what it is.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Getting pissed off about it isn't changing a thing. The Pope is just another person with an opinion to me. Personally, I don't see why gets the media attention that he does. I don't see why the Catholic Church is placed on a pedestal. I don't see why it has the money it does and it has a rather nefarious past from the Inquisitions to the Crusades to Hitler.

But it does. Not any dummer than Jim Bakker. It is what it is.
Lots of stuff pisses me off, man... that's why I'm here... to VENT... :slap: ... :laugh:

Yeah why does the catholic church have so much money? I don't think anyone even knows just how much. I thought "coveting" and "greed" were also things Christ taught against.

[Gunny]

Lots of stuff pisses me off, man... that's why I'm here... to VENT... :slap: ... :laugh:

Yeah why does the catholic church have so much money? I don't think anyone even knows just how much. I thought "coveting" and "greed" were also things Christ taught against.I look at the Pope coming on TV the same as I do the Royal Wedding. I don't. I have a remote control and lots of blue ray discs :)

[JakeStarkey]

OK so a few questions...
would the Pope tell a Serial Killer "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"
would the Pope tell a Pedophile "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"
would the Pope tell an unrepentant serial adulterer "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"
would the Pope tell a Klepomanic "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"
would the Pope tell a unrepentant wife beater "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"
would the Pope tell an "animal lover" "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"
would the Pope tell a necrophile "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"

Somehow i don't think so. Pressures of current social politics playing on this Pope much?
Maybe it's pressure of the homosexual and or pedophile Priest and Cardinals lobby in Rome?


Jesus told the woman caught in adultery, "neither do i condemn you, go and sin no more."
Paul said
...Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God...
Corinthians 6 -11


Seems to me folks -especially Christians- should take the words of Paul and Jesus OVER any preacher, Pope, "feelings" or pseudo-science that says anything otherwise.

Yes, God loves us All from Hitler to the kid that only stole a candy bar. but He doesn't gloss over sin. He die for them all.
Pretending that any of them are of God's making and they should go unaddressed is not what the Bible ask us to imply to "sinners".
neither has scripture asked us to make compromises with sin so we don't offend.
Jesus didn't say things that made everyone feel good about their sin did he? He died for them so we could bring them to him and LEAVE them at the cross. daily if we have to.The issue of homosexuality always, of course, rests in the center of the argument whether nurture or nature. The examples above are choices by nature, I believe. I am not so sure same sex attraction, though. I have always been attracted to the opposite sex, never made a choice about it. Just was. I suspect that it is the same for homosexuals.

[revelarts]

@revelarts (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=1760). @Abbey (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=11). David repented ???
Yep David repented, after the "sinophile" prophet Nathan ...lead by the Spirit of God... pointed out his sin to him CLEARLY.
David was quick to repent once he knew he'd done wrong. and never rebuffed those that pointed out his sins.





So deal with it. You take care of you, and I will take care of me. If EVERYONE does that, there'll be no problem.
And we'll STILL ALL be sinners.
Bible says were suppose to help each other out, like brothers and sisters. If you see someone telling your brother to take crack you warn your brother.
Darin is selling crack Gunny.



Except nothing we can do can save us. We are not saved by works (or lack of works) - that's a simple christian principle.
those verses are not about salvation, it's about pleasing God Today, and living like Jesus Today with our actions.




Yep. Because of the sinophiles - and i think you're one - are hyper-focused on shit that doesn't ultimately matter, matters now because God says it does Darin. Simply as that.
can you show me the greek in scripture for "sinophile"



you are driving people away from loving relationships with God.
Ok who have i driven away Gunny? exactly or are you just making that up?
don't you like like reading scriptures?
I'm quoting the Bible, If that drives people away or makes them upset who has the problem.
People stoned Paul and left Jesus when he said things that were hard to hear as well.



I think you are the type of person who ....
I think we both should very glad that God is finally judging us, our motives and what we've REALLY done
rather than each of us making up crap about other people over a message board.

[gabosaurus]

God said "I am the God of all people. He did now make dispensations for any specific groups of people.
The original texts of the Bible do not condemn homosexuality. It is modern interpretations of Biblical text that cast the arrows. Look into it.

https://medium.com/@adamnicholasphillips/the-bible-does-not-condemn-homosexuality-seriously-it-doesn-t-13ae949d6619

[High_Plains_Drifter]

God said "I am the God of all people. He did now make dispensations for any specific groups of people.
The original texts of the Bible do not condemn homosexuality. It is modern interpretations of Biblical text that cast the arrows. Look into it.

https://medium.com/@adamnicholasphillips/the-bible-does-not-condemn-homosexuality-seriously-it-doesn-t-13ae949d6619
Wrong... God made PLENTY "dispensations"... but an especially strong one against homos...

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?62998-The-Popes-New-Level-Of-Disgrace-To-Written-Biblical-Scripture&p=907887#post907887

[Gunny]

Yep David repented, after the "sinophile" prophet Nathan ...lead by the Spirit of God... pointed out his sin to him CLEARLY.
David was quick to repent once he knew he'd done wrong. and never rebuffed those that pointed out his sins.





Bible says were suppose to help each other out, like brothers and sisters. If you see someone telling your brother to take crack you warn your brother.
Darin is selling crack Gunny.


those verses are not about salvation, it's about pleasing God Today, and living like Jesus Today with our actions.


matters now because God says it does Darin. Simply as that.
can you show me the greek in scripture for "sinophile"


Ok who have i driven away Gunny? exactly or are you just making that up?
don't you like like reading scriptures?
I'm quoting the Bible, If that drives people away or makes them upset who has the problem.
People stoned Paul and left Jesus when he said things that were hard to hear as well.


I think we both should very glad that God is finally judging us, our motives and what we've REALLY done
rather than each of us making up crap about other people over a message board.Aside from the fact I hate that expand-a-post BS one sentence at a time and don't read it, you could at least quote the right person.

You've quoted MY name with Darin's post which is now multi-sentences and multi-quotes..

[revelarts]

The issue of homosexuality always, of course, rests in the center of the argument whether nurture or nature. The examples above are choices by nature, I believe. I am not so sure same sex attraction, though. I have always been attracted to the opposite sex, never made a choice about it. Just was. I suspect that it is the same for homosexuals.

Well, those who confess to sexual attraction to animals and children also claim it came by nature.
Some people that are sadistic claim 'it's natural'. they've always "FELT" that way.
Most men will admit a natural temptation to adultery even if they don't act on it like a dog.
The choice comes in acting on natural urges. Not whether or not they are there.
Wanting to commit a murder is bad and sin of itself according to Jesus. But acting on it is a sin and a crime.
And the perp saying that "i was compelled by my nature to kill him" doesn't get them out of jail, maybe into a mental institution jail... but still.
And you certainly don't make murder, or other crimes, socially acceptable or legal for to those that insist sincerely that the urges come "naturally".

[revelarts]

God said "I am the God of all people. He did now make dispensations for any specific groups of people.
The original texts of the Bible do not condemn homosexuality. It is modern interpretations of Biblical text that cast the arrows. Look into it.

https://medium.com/@adamnicholasphillips/the-bible-does-not-condemn-homosexuality-seriously-it-doesn-t-13ae949d6619

Ok I read the article. And i'm sorry gabby but I'm not sure what they the writer thinks they've shown. they intially admit that there are 6 main verses that are are cited. And in each they basically say. something comes across to me like.
the Bible never uses the word "Pork" until recent modern translations. So that's the 1st important thing to know.
But Yes, it says 'Don't eat the meat of the pig it's sinful' but it's really about gluttony...trust me.
And Yes later on near the end, it says ' Eating the meat of the pig is wicked' there as well but there it's only REALLY talking about BACON not Roast Pork prepared properly. ...trust me.. this Pork chef who's also bible scholar say so.

sorry, all the arguments are lame and some even self refuting. He agrees with the Levitical prohibiting on sex with animals means exactly what it says and is true, but not the prohibition on homosexuality in the previous verse? Seriously?
the article writer is not being very honest it seems to me

the 6 verse cited are very clear. but 3 are all you need

Leviticus 18:22-23;
You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. Also you shall not have intercourse with any animal to be defiled with it, nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it; it is a perversion."

Leviticus 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their blood guiltiness is upon them."

Romans 1:26–27
For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.

Not to mention that NO where in the bible is a homosexual relationship endorsed, much less a homosexual marriage.
And each time homosexuality is referred to it's in a negative sense.
And the only kind of sexual activity that is endorsed and promoted in the Bible is within a heterosexual, monogamous Marriage. period.

Nothing else is promoted, everything else (fornication, incest, prostitution, concubines, adultery, multiple wives, rapes etc) is at best allowed/endured and worked arounded, at worse the people were killed for the misdeeds.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I see this thread has devolved into about something other than the Pope, so, have at it...

[Gunny]

Jews did not eat pork or shelfish because at the time there was no way to preserve the meat and it spoils fast and would poison people. Many of their religious laws are based on common sense of the times they lived in.

[darin]

"spend more time learning to Love" is great. BUT the problem with that is ...and the reason for much of Paul's letter is... that the people, EVEN IN the CHURCH, did not realize that their actions were wrong/"not loving".
That their actions were in fact sinful/unacceptable to God, and they should stop THAT activity
and spend more time Loving in godly ways.

Love is THE Godly way. No activity - be that prayer or preaching or swimming - will do things to impress God...not that God needs to be impressed to love people, because God shows mercy upon all, and everyone WILL love God with all their hearts minds and souls.

Ref: Luke 10:27; context - Guy asks Christ what he must 'do' to be saved. Christ asked him back: To love God and love our neighbors as much as we love ourselves. Chris replied: 7 He answered, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind’[a] and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’” 28 He said to him, “You have answered correctly. Do this, and you will live.”

Let's define terms:
Love (Greek uses Agape): to love, value, esteem, feel or manifest generous concern for, be faithful towards; to delight in,
Shall: shall 1.(in the first person) expressing the future tense. "this time next week I shall be in Scotland" 2.expressing a strong assertion or intention.
Live (greek uses zao): has a few translations but one that most-applies here states: to be alive in a state of salvation from spiritual death

Greek doesn't have a word 'shall' in the passage, but it's implied to aid translation. Even without the word 'shall' - I think the voice of christ is clear: Loving God and Loving others; taking delight in both God and others; is the key to living and/or salvation. Pretty clear muslims who love God and love others are in-line with Christ's will, assuming their heart is pure and they aren't doing it to earn spiritual brownie points because Christ was also clear anyone who 'does those things' - like taking care of the sick and stuff - and if they don't know Love they are doing something for nothing.





Also seems to me, Soft peddling to a soft hearted person that already realizes that their actions are sinful is appropriate.
But soft peddling to someone who wants to believe that none of their actions are a problem, or who is genuinely UNAWARE they they are NOT acting in a loving way to others... by God's/Biblical standards... is counterproductive.
And allows them to believe they ARE serving/loving God with their actions when in fact they are not.
Allowing them to think/believe lies.



Allowing them to believe lies? Allowing it? God doesn't care that we should stop ALLOWING people to live apart from Love. Even people who are not Christians per se, but doing acts of Love are not to be chastised. When Christ was on the cross and he asked God to Forgive us because we don't know what they are doing, do you think he was talking only about the people who actually killed him, or was he talking about mankind - peoplekind if you're canadian - and the sins of the world?

Actions matter probably 1000% less than what's causing or driving the actions. Another case in point; Actions matter less:

Christ watched folks walk up and proudly put large sums of money into the church; then a poor widow giving just a couple pennies. Christ mentioned her saying "Check that shit out - She gave MORE than anyone, because she gave all she had."


Just then he looked up and saw the rich people dropping offerings in the collection plate. Then he saw a poor widow put in two pennies. He said, “The plain truth is that this widow has given by far the largest offering today. All these others made offerings that they’ll never miss; she gave extravagantly what she couldn’t afford—she gave her all!”

Luke 21 1-4
Doing big things - grandiose things matters FAR less than giving out of sincerity and love.



And in a public setting we don't know who's soft hearted, and who's ignorant, and who's looking for justification of whatever they do.
So IMO it seems more appropriate to give the WHOLE council, not only the side that allows people to "feel" better, no matter what they continue to do.

but it's not your call. That's not your charge. That's not your mission. Your mission is to learn to love people in real ways. That's it.



The message that Jesus, Peter, Paul and all the apostles past on was "Repent" and "Believe in the Lord Jesus for the forgiveness of all your sin. And become Sons and Daughters of God"
After we believe Paul and the others tell us how to walk the new life out, as in Thessalonians

4 ...As for other matters, brothers and sisters, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more. For you know what instructions [B]we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control your own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the pagans, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong or take advantage of a brother or sister. The Lord will punish all those who commit such sins, as we told you and warned you before. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, anyone who rejects this instruction does not reject a human being but God, the very God who gives you his Holy Spirit...


So which do you believe; do you believe God will show mercy upon all, (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+15%3A+21-28+&version=MSG) or is that part of the bible a lie? Do you believe 'it's not what we do' that 'saves us', but our hearts? (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ephesians+2%3A+7-10&version=MSG) Or is that a lie. Do you Believe Paul was calling those in the church to live a higher standard - out of their Love for god, or do you believe those guys behaving a certain way would lead to their spiritual death? And can anyone recover from spiritual death?

Let's go back to Corinthians 15:21-28

"Christ...after crushing the opposition, he hands over his kingdom to God the Father"

What is "his kingdom"? Has Christ done that yet - handed over his kingdom to God? I argue he has, because I believe - and you are free to disagree - heaven and hell are not bound by our linear constructs of time. In "His" universe/reality/whatever, everything that has been done is already done.

So again - what is "his kingdom"? Well, we know Christ took-hold of the keys to the gates of hell (Rev 1:18). Its logical to assume he has sole control of those gates; he stops folks from entering, as he's already cleared Hell out upon his descent, so stands to reason, anyone who was being 'punished' was given mercy. Regardless of what they "did" to deserve that punishment. God's judgement is Love wins.



Darin, seriously man, re-check what you're saying. we don't ignore or reject the instruction. it parts of the package. Promoting Love and personally holiness ...staying away from sin a defined by God. They are NOT contradictory or a distraction from "love" but a necessary compliment.

Your instruction is false teaching to me, because God doesn't care so much about sin; because Sin, as it manifests is not a lot more than 'things that make our life harder' mixed with 'things that distract us from God's GREATEST Commandment: "Loving Him AND loving our fellow man."

Personal Holiness. Man that reads a LOT like the ONLY PEOPLE Christ ever got pissed at...Pharisees. Let me give you some instruction - strike that - let Christ give you some instruction:

Luke 15-17 People brought babies to Jesus, hoping he might touch them. When the disciples saw it, they shooed them off. Jesus called them back. “Let these children alone. Don’t get between them and me. These children are the kingdom’s pride and joy. Mark this: Unless you accept God’s kingdom in the simplicity of a child, you’ll never get in.”

Tell me again how many Holy children exist. Tell me again how worried kids are about decorum; about beating up sinners; tell me how those who trust God like a child trusts their parents are spending time reminding people "Your actions will lead you to everlasting punishment - even though the bible is ambiguous at best that everlasting punishment exists. I guess it can exist from our standpoint, but outside our time stream there's a good chance 'everlasting punishment' is over. Remind me again how children are expected to love their parents (god) unconditionally, and their parents (god) love their kids unconditionally - except there are a shit-ton of conditions. Namely - unless you act righteous and proper I will torture you for all eternity until you die, then i will resurrect your soul within hell and keep torturing you because for the 70 years you were on earth, you didn't "Obey the law". Even though Christ fulfilled the law and brought Mercy to mankind, YOU didn't say the sinner's prayer!! You vermin. But i love you. Yes, Satan Won, because he has FAR MORE souls than I get. Yes, even though Christ descended into hell and holds the keys and all that - because we operate on EARTH's time stream/perspective, YOU missed out. Sorry you were born to late. Oh - and nevermind Hell and Death shall be NO MORE, you'll still be here...because when I had the guy write "Hell and Death will be no more" i was kidding.

If I know any Love, it's because of God, because God IS Love. Love IS the essence and nature of God. Love says "I love you more than you love me; I love you when you can do nothing for me; I love you to the point of sacrifice and salvation whether you know it or not.

See also: the book Memoirs of a Geisha. Possible spoilers in white text:


She had no idea of His hand in her life - she had no idea until the end, the man she loved was working to bring them together.

Its like that. A lot like that.

Plus - God is not willing ANY should perish, Mathew 18:14. Or is he? Is God willing that even the least of most souls - even just ONE will be lost to eternal torment? Either He is okay with it, or Christ is a liar in that parable.

[Abbey Marie]

I've imagined that in areas of public controversy, among Christians and/or the "pagans", a Pope could just quote or cite appropriate scripture without a word of commentary.
And let folks deal with it.
At that point it's not about "what the Pope said" it's up to people whether or not they will simply be honest about what the text says or if they are going to twist into pretzels trying to make it fit their agendas

Our former Pastor’s sermons consisted of going through the entire Bible verse by verse and explaining it. And would tell us, don't just take my word for it, read it yourself and decide what it means. I think that is very healthy.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Our former Pastor would go through the entire Bible verse by verse and explain it, as his sermons. And would tell us, don't just take my word for it, read it yourself and decide what it means. I think that is very healthy.
There was this old guy that was on tv real early in the morning, show called "Shepard's Chapel" I believe, and that's what he would do, read the Bible word for word, and then stop and explain exactly what he just read. I used to like watching that show.

[gabosaurus]

As I understand it, the Pope is the "Shepherd of the Catholic Church." Which means he has to interpret and spread the word of God to his followers.
The average age of Catholic parishioners has skyrocketed over the years. Many churches are literally dying out. Enrollment in Catholic schools has dropped dramatically. The Pontiff is trying to appeal to young people and draw them back into the Church.
The practices of the Catholic Church (and other hard line religions) are long overdue for an update and overhaul.

[Gunny]

As I understand it, the Pope is the "Shepherd of the Catholic Church." Which means he has to interpret and spread the word of God to his followers.
The average age of Catholic parishioners has skyrocketed over the years. Many churches are literally dying out. Enrollment in Catholic schools has dropped dramatically. The Pontiff is trying to appeal to young people and draw them back into the Church.
The practices of the Catholic Church (and other hard line religions) are long overdue for an update and overhaul.The Catholic church is B-O-R-I-N-G. The Episcopal Church (which are Catholics minus whichever Catholic rules they didn't like) is boring. Dog and pony shows. My mother decided when I was about 10 we were going to become Episcopal because my uncle's wife decided they were. I could see the flaw in THAT reasoning even at 10. I used to piss her off because I called her Auntie Terri when she is Mexican and the other kids called her Tia Teresa.

In contrast, I LOVED those old Southern Baptist tent revivals my grandfather would take me to. Bunch of men, women and kids in short sleeve shirts and skinny ties and dress pants in a tent in the Texas morning sun. Standing room only! They were a hoot. I'm surprised I kept a straight face. Those preachers would be getting so worked up they'd be turning beet red and just working the crowd :laugh: Eternal damnation in Hellfire and brimstone unless you repent NOW, brothers and sisters :laugh2: People couldn't wait to give a donation to save their souls. And Hell, I was about 6 years old and that crap entertained me. Somebody should have known something was wrong THEN :laugh:

I have this idea God doesn't look approvingly on some of the churches out there and I'm not a fan of organized religion. My God isn't so full of hate as others seems to be.

[Abbey Marie]

The Catholic church is B-O-R-I-N-G. The Episcopal Church (which are Catholics minus whichever Catholic rules they didn't like) is boring. Dog and pony shows. My mother decided when I was about 10 we were going to become Episcopal because my uncle's wife decided they were. I could see the flaw in THAT reasoning even at 10. I used to piss her off because I called her Auntie Terri when she is Mexican and the other kids called her Tia Teresa.

In contrast, I LOVED those old Southern Baptist tent revivals my grandfather would take me to. Bunch of men, women and kids in short sleeve shirts and skinny ties and dress pants in a tent in the Texas morning sun. Standing room only! They were a hoot. I'm surprised I kept a straight face. Those preachers would be getting so worked up they'd be turning beet red and just working the crowd :laugh: Eternal damnation in Hellfire and brimstone unless you repent NOW, brothers and sisters :laugh2: People couldn't wait to give a donation to save their souls. And Hell, I was about 6 years old and that crap entertained me. Somebody should have known something was wrong THEN :laugh:

I have this idea God doesn't look approvingly on some of the churches out there and I'm not a fan of organized religion. My God isn't so full of hate as others seems to be.

Or Hats. Why do clergy wear outrageous hats? Seems the taller the hat, the closer to God, eh?

;)

[Gunny]

Or Hats. Why do clergy wear outrageous hats? Seems the taller the hat, the closer to God, eh?

;)That was a total turn off. Those goofy robes and hats. In the Episcopal church, the first half is the show. Same show as last week. Everyone going through the ritual. Then they send the kids to Sunday school and the adults have church for 1/2 hour. Only thing that made sense to me is they had Dixie Creme donuts after the service :)

Seriously, I don't remember hearing a single sermon in the Episcopal Church. It's like they spray you with attention repellent at the door.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Or the MONEY... I never got the reason why you had to give MONEY to a CHURCH to be HOLY.

And my son, whom I no longer speak with, that became a super Christian told me he was going to start TITHING. He was going to give 10% of his income right off the top to the CHURCH. When I asked him why, he didn't have a good answer other than the Bible says he should do it. When I asked him if what he was telling me was that he felt he could BUY his way into heaven, he didn't have a good answer again. He couldn't explain the connection between MONEY and GOD and this making you HOLIER.

All this big church, big MONEY stuff turns me off. It reminds me of this... this is perfect... up to 1:35 is exactly how I feel...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAUAVdI82l8

[Gunny]

Or the MONEY... I never got the reason why you had to give MONEY to a CHURCH to be HOLY.

And my son, whom I no longer speak with, that became a super Christian told me he was going to start TITHING. He was going to give 10% of his income right off the top to the CHURCH. When I asked him why, he didn't have a good answer other than the Bible says he should do it. When I asked him if what he was telling me was that he felt he could BUY his way into heaven, he didn't have a good answer again. He couldn't explain the connection between MONEY and GOD and this making you HOLIER.

All this big church, big MONEY stuff turns me off. It reminds me of this... this is perfect... up to 1:35 is exactly how I feel...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAUAVdI82l8You don't give money to the church to be Holy. You give to support the House of the Lord.

I don't know how anyone else's churches are, but the last one I attended the money paid the rent for one thing, and the Pastor's salary. There was a slush fund for emergencies. For instance, if your house burnt down between the church and the members acting individually, you pretty much got covered until you got back on your feet. Food, clothes, there was a vacant house the church owned next door to the Pastor's.

And the Baptist church ( and I mean old school ones -- I've only been to one of those contemporary what we call "hippy" churches once)is very vocal and clear that you ain't buying yourself a spot in Heaven. If your gift doesn't come from the heart, leave your wallet in your pocket.

My grandfather was the Superintendent of Sunday Schools and a Deacon. I know ALL the rules and how to break most of them :halo9:

[Abbey Marie]

You don't give money to the church to be Holy. You give to support the House of the Lord.

I don't know how anyone else's churches are, but the last one I attended the money paid the rent for one thing, and the Pastor's salary. There was a slush fund for emergencies. For instance, if your house burnt down between the church and the members acting individually, you pretty much got covered until you got back on your feet. Food, clothes, there was a vacant house the church owned next door to the Pastor's.

And the Baptist church ( and I mean old school ones -- I've only been to one of those contemporary what we call "hippy" churches once)is very vocal and clear that you ain't buying yourself a spot in Heaven. If your gift doesn't come from the heart, leave your wallet in your pocket.

My grandfather was the Superintendent of Sunday Schools and a Deacon. I know ALL the rules and how to break most of them :halo9:

And it supports missions.

[Gunny]

And it supports missions.Ours sent out missionaries to Africa. When they found out I'd been there a few times (the wife had a big mouth) they asked if I wanted to go. I was like I ALREADY did my "missionary" service over there and NO WAY would I step foot on that continent without being loaded to gills with weaponry. Bibles may have powerful words but you can't shoot them. :)

[High_Plains_Drifter]

You don't give money to the church to be Holy. You give to support the House of the Lord.
I know why... I just don't like to see these big televangelists on TV with their massive multi million dollar operations... I think it's bad, and the preachers dipping into it living lavish lifestyles in huge mansions... how is that HOLY, or how is that the HOUSE OF THE LORD?

Not in my book. The Bible teaches you to be humble.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Ours sent out missionaries to Africa. When they found out I'd been there a few times (the wife had a big mouth) they asked if I wanted to go. I was like I ALREADY did my "missionary" service over there and NO WAY would I step foot on that continent without being loaded to gills with weaponry. Bibles may have powerful words but you can't shoot them. :)
What... you never seen a FULLY SEMI AUTOMATIC ASSAULT RIFLE WITH A 72 SHOT CLIP? --------- :laugh:

[JakeStarkey]

No man is supposed to either take away or add too the words in the Bible.

The Pope is making crap up, speaking as though he knows God better than the words in the Bible... that's blasphemy, and coming from the Pope, it's actually worse than that.The Holy Bibles is not the end all and say all of the word, except for the heretics among the evangelicals, fundamentalists, and Pentecostals. While they are all Christian if they witness Christ as their Lord and Savior, those groups have bad theology.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

The Holy Bibles is not the end all and say all of the word, except for the heretics among the evangelicals, fundamentalists, and Pentecostals. While they are all Christian if they witness Christ as their Lord and Savior, those groups have bad theology.
You're entitled to your opinion, however flawed it may be.

[revelarts]

As I understand it, the Pope is the "Shepherd of the Catholic Church." Which means he has to interpret and spread the word of God to his followers.
The average age of Catholic parishioners has skyrocketed over the years. Many churches are literally dying out. Enrollment in Catholic schools has dropped dramatically. The Pontiff is trying to appeal to young people and draw them back into the Church.
The practices of the Catholic Church (and other hard line religions) are long overdue for an update and overhaul.

well gabby, I'm not sure that the prophets, apostles or Jesus ever said that, if the meetings get boring and the teachings out of step with the times. then change up what we've taught and spice it up a bit to keep members a comin' in.
And put on a better show boys! for for the young people... update and overhaul.

This scripture comes to mind:
John 6:65-68 He (Jesus) went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.” From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.“You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve. Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”


No need to be "boring" on purpose but it's not a show or a regular social club.
Frankly the churches in the west have had a pretty good run without the type of OUTSIDE persecution the early churches had. (becasue they were so popular?) Seems like were in the twilight of that run. some in the Churches will compromise the teachings of God in an attempt to be more popular. But a few will simply sick with Jesus becasue they have come to believe he is the holy one of God and has the words of eternal life.

[revelarts]

The Holy Bibles is not the end all and say all of the word, except for the heretics among the evangelicals, fundamentalists, and Pentecostals. While they are all Christian if they witness Christ as their Lord and Savior, those groups have bad theology.

Ok, so if the Holy Bible is not "the end all and say all of the word" then what or who is?

[Black Diamond]

Ok, so if the Holy Bible is not the end all and say all of the word then what is?

the Popes?
Some say so.

[Gunny]

well gabby, I'm not sure that the prophets, apostles or Jesus ever said that, if the meetings get boring and the teachings out of step with the times. then change up what we've taught and spice it up a bit to keep members a comin' in.
And put on a better show boys! for for the young people... update and overhaul.

This scripture comes to mind:
John 6:65-68 He (Jesus) went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.” From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.“You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve. Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”


No need to be "boring" on purpose but it's not a show or a regular social club.
Frankly the churches in the west have had a pretty good run without the type of OUTSIDE persecution the early churches had. (becasue they were so popular?) Seems like were in the twilight of that run. some in the Churches will compromise the teachings of God in an attempt to be more popular. But a few will simply sick with Jesus becasue they have come to believe he is the holy one of God and has the words of eternal life.This could be a never ending discussion because there are so many nuances it's ridiculous.

I understand completely what Gabby is trying to say. I have no problem with modernizing church and making it entertaining. There's no rule against it. As I previously stated, I don't remember a single sermon from the Episcopal church because it was boring. They spent as much or more time on pomp and circumstance than teaching. By the time they got to the sermon you were already done 20 minutes prior.

I DO remember most of the things I was taught in the Southern Baptist church because they kept my attention (and I was entertained :laugh:). So using effective tools to get the message out is fine with me. Not getting it out is a waste of everyone's time. No one learns a thing.

What I DON'T agree with is, regardless how you get God's word across, it is God's word. His word. It doesn't change because society accepts things God does not. THEN I have an issue and have always had an issue. The left has and still is dragging our society down the toilet. They just NEVER let up on pushing us further left toward the cliff.

And when God gets in their way? They've been steamrolling and vilifying Him like they do anything else that does. The ones that are so arrogant they believe Man is God don't care, and the rest wait for some preacher to tell them it's okay to do it. I guess they think when they have to answer for their sins they think they can blame on the preacher:rolleyes: