And Here We Go With NK?

[Kathianne]

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/world/2018/05/15/north-korea-threatens-to-cancel-us-meeting-over-american-military-drills-with-south-korea-yonhap-says.amp.html

[Gunny]

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/world/2018/05/15/north-korea-threatens-to-cancel-us-meeting-over-american-military-drills-with-south-korea-yonhap-says.amp.htmlI hate to say this, but North Korea has a point for once. The exercises DO target North Korea as the potential invader.

Seems to me propriety might dictate postponing or cancelling the exercises for the time being. That IS an in your face. How bad do you want the deal? Might want to ratchet back a few notches on that American arrogance for the time being.

[Kathianne]

I hate to say this, but North Korea has a point for once. The exercises DO target North Korea as the potential invader.

Seems to me propriety might dictate postponing or cancelling the exercises for the time being. That IS an in your face. How bad do you want the deal? Might want to ratchet back a few notches on that American arrogance for the time being.

Maybe. There's something to be said for not gaining anything untl the relationship is working.

[Abbey Marie]

Saving face is as we know, a very big deal for Asians. This needs to stop for the time-being.

[Gunny]

Maybe. There's something to be said for not gaining anything untl the relationship is working.A valid point. We have however held joint military exercises with South Korea since before I was in the Marine Corps. I got to go on one. What luck :rolleyes:

It's not going to break anybody's butt to miss one or postpone it. Like I said, how bad do you want a deal? Weigh one against the other. Denuclearization of the Korean peninsula vs another lame, repetitious military exercise that could be held any time. Trump & Co & S Korea have worked for a year and half to get where they are on this deal.

Also, depending on what exactly is in the deal, isn't de-militarization of the peninsula part of the package? A signed deal would render the exercise pointless anyway.

I think it can and should be postponed indefinitely pending negotiations. Just my opinion.

[Kathianne]

A valid point. We have however held joint military exercises with South Korea since before I was in the Marine Corps. I got to go on one. What luck :rolleyes:

It's not going to break anybody's butt to miss one or postpone it. Like I said, how bad do you want a deal? Weigh one against the other. Denuclearization of the Korean peninsula vs another lame, repetitious military exercise that could be held any time. Trump & Co & S Korea have worked for a year and half to get where they are on this deal.

Also, depending on what exactly is in the deal, isn't de-militarization of the peninsula part of the package? A signed deal would render the exercise pointless anyway.

I think it can and should be postponed indefinitely pending negotiations. Just my opinion.

He said, "No preconditions." Now threatens to pull out. Not good.

[Gunny]

He said, "No preconditions." Now threatens to pull out. Not good.Neither is practicing to kick his while claiming we want peace and stability.

[Kathianne]

Neither is practicing to kick his while claiming we want peace and stability.

Actually, it looks like he's playimg at something. The exercises were already underway when he did this. It's not like he didn't know beforehand.

[Gunny]

Actually, it looks like he's playimg at something. The exercises were already underway when he did this. It's not like he didn't know beforehand.

I really don't know with this nutcase. That's just my opinion. They're going to do what they're going to do and so is Un, even if he doesn't know what that is from one minute to the next.

Maybe he considers strong arming them to stop would be some power play and victory. Here's the thing with Korea. There's a holding force on the ground in South Korea. The REAL force is the Navy and island of Okinawa, home of the 3rd Marine Expeditionary Force and Kadena AFB. Most of those exercises are Navy and the Army holding force jockeying around on the ground. When we went to Team Spirit 84 from Oki, we sent a token force from 3rd Marine Division.

There's Anderson AFB on Guam which has so many B-52s I surprised the island hasn't sank. There's an AFB in Japan. Yokosuka I believe. There's a Navy base in Japan. And those are all permanent forces, not just exercise people in for the weekend. I honestly believe Un has no idea what he is actually facing.

So we postpone the exercise. I consider it the wiser course of action, and something we can afford from position of overwhelming strength. It's not like anyone's going to go away. It's a bit of reverse psychology. Call his bluff, but not by confronting him. Let him have enough rope to hang himself or make a deal. Either way, he outs himself. Then, if he's stooging around HE is the bad guy instead of us looking like the bullies.

It costs us nothing, and if he balks we can always hold an exercise the next day. It's not like they don't have 3-5 of them a year anyway.

[Kathianne]

I really don't know with this nutcase. That's just my opinion. They're going to do what they're going to do and so is Un, even if he doesn't know what that is from one minute to the next.

Maybe he considers strong arming them to stop would be some power play and victory. Here's the thing with Korea. There's a holding force on the ground in South Korea. The REAL force is the Navy and island of Okinawa, home of the 3rd Marine Expeditionary Force and Kadena AFB. Most of those exercises are Navy and the Army holding force jockeying around on the ground. When we went to Team Spirit 84 from Oki, we sent a token force from 3rd Marine Division.

There's Anderson AFB on Guam which has so many B-52s I surprised the island hasn't sank. There's an AFB in Japan. Yokosuka I believe. There's a Navy base in Japan. And those are all permanent forces, not just exercise people in for the weekend. I honestly believe Un has no idea what he is actually facing.

So we postpone the exercise. I consider it the wiser course of action, and something we can afford from position of overwhelming strength. It's not like anyone's going to go away. It's a bit of reverse psychology. Call his bluff, but not by confronting him. Let him have enough rope to hang himself or make a deal. Either way, he outs himself. Then, if he's stooging around HE is the bad guy instead of us looking like the bullies.

It costs us nothing, and if he balks we can always hold an exercise the next day. It's not like they don't have 3-5 of them a year anyway.

I get what you're saying, but Trump isn't doing that. Seems the WH is basically ignoring his threat thus far..

[aboutime]

Little Rocket Man is just playing more games. He does have to 'save face' to some extent, and doesn't want to look like the WUSS we all know he is to those he pretends to lead. So..he had to make this threat to get attention.
The exercises should go on, just to let the President Prove...He's Not a Pushover like Obama, Bush, and the Clinton's.

Trump doesn't expect Rocket Man to keep his word on ANYTHING. IMO.
https://pics.onsizzle.com/thumb_donald-j-trump-realdonaldtrump-being-nice-to-rocket-man-28058790.png
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0377a8d1cc916ff0773a7887e4b12943

[Gunny]

Little Rocket Man is just playing more games. He does have to 'save face' to some extent, and doesn't want to look like the WUSS we all know he is to those he pretends to lead. So..he had to make this threat to get attention.
The exercises should go on, just to let the President Prove...He's Not a Pushover like Obama, Bush, and the Clinton's.

Trump doesn't expect Rocket Man to keep his word on ANYTHING. IMO.
https://pics.onsizzle.com/thumb_donald-j-trump-realdonaldtrump-being-nice-to-rocket-man-28058790.png
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0377a8d1cc916ff0773a7887e4b12943

I disagree. The President of the United States doesn't have to PROVE anything. He's the President of the United States. NOBODY, to include Un, thinks Un is any kind of an equal.

They're going to do what they want. I posted above why I would go the other route. i don't think a dime-a-dozen military exercise is worth nt getting our hands on the idiot's nukes. Plus, Trump has already pissed off half the World twice in 2 weeks. Stick it on Un to be the bad guy. PR is killing us right now and IMO, only the canning of the Iran deal was the only one worth the price. Moving our embassy from one dirty spot to another in Israel accomplishes absolutely nothing from where I sit. Same with a military exercise when we stand a chance at solving a 70 years old wart.

[Drummond]

The current exercises were arranged some time ago, I understand ?

And .. N Korea has to surely accept that it's acted aggressively until very recently, so it's a bit rich for them to show intolerance to other powers who also flex their military muscle. Perhaps Kim Jong-Un thinks that his is the only national power with any so-called 'right' to do so ?

North Korea has sown distrust in it for a considerable period. They can now prove they've reformed. If they're genuine .. they'll continue to show us that they have done so.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I hate to say this, but North Korea has a point for once. The exercises DO target North Korea as the potential invader.

Seems to me propriety might dictate postponing or cancelling the exercises for the time being. That IS an in your face. How bad do you want the deal? Might want to ratchet back a few notches on that American arrogance for the time being.
After hearing about this and reading the OP's link, before I read a single comment, what you said above was exactly what I was thinking.

Little rocket man has come a long way so far I'd say, he's quit shooting off rockets, he's meet with Pompeo already and he's planning to blow up nuke sites, etc, hell, don't push the guy right now. Why fuck up something that appears to be going good and it's historic beyond measure? Just postpone the damn exercises indefinitely. We been doing this shit with SOKO for decades, don't we have a pretty damn good idea how it go by now?

I think it's stupid to hold those military exercises right now. I would have certainly recommended against it. It certainly doesn't seem to fit in with any "art of the deal" narrative in my opinion.

[darin]

I hate to say this, but North Korea has a point for once. The exercises DO target North Korea as the potential invader.


Doesn't matter at all. Any exercises going on were planned years ago - at least started planning; and they may be annual exercises anyway - and probably exercises used to evaluate readiness. They are not provocative; they are not new or sudden; they are training and training the way the Soldiers there have done it for decades. NK is just cherry picking shit to manipulate stuff. NK is like a really naggy, bitchy partner - they know only this: Passive-aggressive stammering and rolling on the floor throwing a fit until they get their way. Up until Trump most US Presidents were enabling helicopter type parents who satiated instead of corrected.

God i'm good. I hadn't clicked the link until after replying:


"The purpose of the training is to enhance the ROK-U.S. Allilance's ability to defend the ROK and enhance interoperability and readiness," the statement said. "While we will not discuss specifics, the defensive nature of these combined exercises has been clear for many decades and has not changed."

mmhmm.

[pete311]

Not concerned at all. Read Art of the Deal. This is all part of Trump's master plan. :laugh:

NK just pulled a power move. They know Trump is desperate to make history. NK in control.

[Gunny]

Doesn't matter at all. Any exercises going on were planned years ago - at least started planning; and they may be annual exercises anyway - and probably exercises used to evaluate readiness. They are not provocative; they are not new or sudden; they are training and training the way the Soldiers there have done it for decades. NK is just cherry picking shit to manipulate stuff. NK is like a really naggy, bitchy partner - they know only this: Passive-aggressive stammering and rolling on the floor throwing a fit until they get their way. Up until Trump most US Presidents were enabling helicopter type parents who satiated instead of corrected.

God i'm good. I hadn't clicked the link until after replying:



mmhmm.I understand exercise planning very well. The hard schedule is 3 years out, with two "soft" years proposed. I consider that irrelevant to the situation. Improvise, adapt and overcome. If we are THAT inflexible it's a wonder we even won in Grenada. The fact is we are NOT that inflexible. I guarantee you those Soldiers, Sailors and Marines won't miss it a bit. If we don't have this sh*t down after 70 years we might as well not be there anyway.

Right now, WE appear to be the bullies. I hate bullies, and there is NOTHING in ANY American idealism I ever learned that has bullying on the list. We have the power and the strength and that knowledge is what makes us better and secure within ourselves. If we have to go around flexing muscle then we aren't so secure in our position and feel the need to prove something.

And yes, that IS a life philosophy for me. Even being not as big and monstrous as I used to be, I'm still bigger stature-wise than most people and mostly muscle. I wear loose-fitting shirts and if doesn't have sleeves it doesn't leave the property. I have nothing to prove. I am secure in the knowledge that I can take someone out if I have to. We, as a Nation, do not need to be running around in tight tee shirts showing off.

We stand to gain a lot and end a 70 years old headache. That's not worth strutting around like a peacock to me.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I understand exercise planning very well. The hard schedule is 3 years out, with two "soft" years proposed. I consider that irrelevant to the situation. Improvise, adapt and overcome. If we are THAT inflexible it's a wonder we even won in Grenada. The fact is we are NOT that inflexible. I guarantee you those Soldiers, Sailors and Marines won't miss it a bit. If we don't have this sh*t down after 70 years we might as well not be there anyway.

Right now, WE appear to be the bullies. I hate bullies, and there is NOTHING in ANY American idealism I ever learned that has bullying on the list. We have the power and the strength and that knowledge is what makes us better and secure within ourselves. If we have to go around flexing muscle then we aren't so secure in our position and feel the need to prove something.

And yes, that IS a life philosophy for me. Even being not as big and monstrous as I used to be, I'm still bigger stature-wise than most people and mostly muscle. I wear loose-fitting shirts and if doesn't have sleeves it doesn't leave the property. I have nothing to prove. I am secure in the knowledge that I can take someone out if I have to. We, as a Nation, do not need to be running around in tight tee shirts showing off.

We stand to gain a lot and end a 70 years old headache. That's not worth strutting around like a peacock to me.
ITA Gunny... my thoughts exactly. We know what to do if the shit hit the fan in the Korean peninsula ALREADY. We've only been "practicing" for DECADES. Calling off these exercises would look VERY GOOD towards CALMING things, and yes they could very easily be called off, and we all know that these exercises WERE meant to show NOKO that "we're here, and we're ready to fuck with you." Is that the message we need to be sending RIGHT NOW, with HISTORIC MOVEMENT towards ENDING just that? I say no... FUCK NO. End ALL these "exercises" until this negotiation is over, as a show of good faith. We're still there, we haven't left, we still know damn well what to do if the shit hits the fan, we've been practicing it for DECADES, so just COOL IT for awhile. I mean COOLING IT is what the president and Un meeting is all about, isn't it? So we don't have to do this crap anymore. If people say this is just Kim grasping for straws looking for reasons to throw a wrench in the gears, well I think we GAVE it to him. This just looks bad. We're there to negotiate a historic peace, and yet we're still playing WAR by Kim's back door. Not good... we should end that crap, indefinitely. If these talks are successful, we night not have to ever play war in Korea again. Think of the money we could save.

[Gunny]

Not concerned at all. Read Art of the Deal. This is all part of Trump's master plan. :laugh:

NK just pulled a power move. They know Trump is desperate to make history. NK in control.That is a stupid comment pete311. Trump has won. THAT is the point You'll never admit that, but it's game over. Un caved. He's attention-whoring, but caved nonetheless.

Let the little bastard save some face while using common sense. THAT is called being a gracious winner and strokes the little attention whore's feather.

How do you figure Trump's desperate. He was ready to blow the place off the map. Un is the one that came crawling for a deal. Just can't stand that, can you? Got to twist it into something negative. I hope it burns your ass :)

[Black Diamond]

That is a stupid comment @pete311 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=1821). Trump has won. THAT is the point You'll never admit that, but it's game over. Un caved. He's attention-whoring, but caved nonetheless.

Let the little bastard save some face while using common sense. THAT is called being a gracious winner and strokes the little attention whore's feather.

How do you figure Trump's desperate. He was ready to blow the place off the map. Un is the one that came crawling for a deal. Just can't stand that, can you? Got to twist it into something negative. I hope it burns your ass :)
Pete has been rooting for Un since November 2016.

[Gunny]

Pete has been rooting for Un since November 2016.Yeah, but it's nothing personal. Pete could care less about Un. He just wants Trump to fail, regardless cost to the country. Skewed politics come first.

[Black Diamond]

Yeah, but it's nothing personal. Pete could care less about Un. He just wants Trump to fail, regardless cost to the country. Skewed politics come first.
Putting un in front of the American president is screwed up. I never rooted for our enemies over Obama at the expense of America, which it always would be.

[jimnyc]

He'd be WORSE off than ever if he called of the talks, and I'm sure he knows that. I believe his squawking is all about getting a better deal for NK and/or himself of course, and concessions and perhaps looking for them quicker.

I don'mind getting the boots off the throat.... but any and all concessions should have attachments of completions and continued cooperation - certainly not threats.

[Gunny]

Putting un in front of the American president is screwed up. I never rooted for our enemies over Obama at the expense of America, which it always would be.I have to admit, I got a kick out of Putin punking Obama. I know it doesn't seem right, but he earned it.

Difference between Obama and Trump is rump has operated within the law and in our best interest, agree with his decisions or not. His Majesty Obama did whatever he wanted regardless the law or the best interest of the US and the World.

[Black Diamond]

I have to admit, I got a kick out of Putin punking Obama. I know it doesn't seem right, but he earned it.

Difference between Obama and Trump is rump has operated within the law and in our best interest, agree with his decisions or not. His Majesty Obama did whatever he wanted regardless the law or the best interest of the US and the World.
I think many people around the world saw Putin as a leader because he was everything Obama wasn't. Bold and ballsy for starters.

[Black Diamond]

He'd be WORSE off than ever if he called of the talks, and I'm sure he knows that. I believe his squawking is all about getting a better deal for NK and/or himself of course, and concessions and perhaps looking for them quicker.

I don'mind getting the boots off the throat.... but any and all concessions should have attachments of completions and continued cooperation - certainly not threats.
There will be talks. Question is will Kim keep his word on whatever is agreed upon.

[jimnyc]

NK will further destroy the main nuclear testing facility, and bringing in the investigators and media to monitor and view. Sure, THEY are in control.

What they did was guarantee that this would happen prior to any summit. Once done, no reversal at that location. It will be a win no matter what happens at that point and set them back at that location for years to come. But yeah, the schooled us, huh Petey.

Both sides will huff and puff until any meeting takes place. One will make power moves to show the seriousness, and that NK needs to de-nuclearize, and hopefully end the war. The other side will rattle in the hopes of concessions.

[Gunny]

There will be talks. Question is will Kim keep his word on whatever is agreed upon.Nobody will know for sure until it does or does not happen.

I think the little commie will do it given enough attention for it. After all the bluster and crap was stripped away, that appears to be what he wants most. He wants to be recognized by the "big boys' as a big man on campus.

[FakeNewsSux]

After hearing about this and reading the OP's link, before I read a single comment, what you said above was exactly what I was thinking.

Little rocket man has come a long way so far I'd say, he's quit shooting off rockets, he's meet with Pompeo already and he's planning to blow up nuke sites, etc, hell, don't push the guy right now. Why fuck up something that appears to be going good and it's historic beyond measure? Just postpone the damn exercises indefinitely. We been doing this shit with SOKO for decades, don't we have a pretty damn good idea how it go by now?

I think it's stupid to hold those military exercises right now. I would have certainly recommended against it. It certainly doesn't seem to fit in with any "art of the deal" narrative in my opinion.


Could it be that this is the essence of the "Art of the Deal"? No meeting has been held, no agreements have been reached and closing down a facility that had a mountain fall on it is giving away nothing. Keeping the pressure on Kim demonstrates that this isn't just another US President desperate for a deal who will reward him for delaying and ultimately going back on his word. Kim sees that China was the first nation to speak up and say that he should go ahead with the June Summit. In addition they have kept all banking and trade embargoes in place in exchange for a telecom deal with Pres Trump. So what did Kim witness in the past week? Play ball like the Chinese and you get favorable treatment. Cancel a planned Summit, like Judge Smails said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuNJq_wI1ns

[Gunny]

Could it be that this is the essence of the "Art of the Deal"? No meeting has been held, no agreements have been reached and closing down a facility that had a mountain fall on it is giving away nothing. Keeping the pressure on Kim demonstrates that this isn't just another US President desperate for a deal who will reward him for delaying and ultimately going back on his word. Kim sees that China was the first nation to speak up and say that he should go ahead with the June Summit. In addition they have kept all banking and trade embargoes in place in exchange for a telecom deal with Pres Trump. So what did Kim witness in the past week? Play ball like the Chinese and you get favorable treatment. Cancel a planned Summit, like Judge Smails said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuNJq_wI1nsI hope it works out. I'm more conservative than Trump. I'd have tossed the chihuahua a bone so he'd have something to slobber over for the next couple of weeks.

Not like ther arenelt probably two more exercises scheduled for this year.