Interview with Donbass Militiaman (Rebel, Separatist)

[Polite Russian]

Ladies and Gentelmen, oooonly today (no, we got a lot of time), only you (yeah, only for debate policy) have the opportunity to ask some questions to my friend, who fought in Donbass. He is not a russian soldier and he's even not a serviceman. In Russia he was a journalist, but then he volunteered to fight against Ukrainian army. No government support. I asked him, if it will be okay, if you, friends, ask him some questions.
He is my friend and I asky all of you to be gentle and polite.
I will write all your questions, translate them for him and then will do the same with his answers.
Please, let's have no discussion here about that conflict, only questions. And if you mark them like: "1. Why... 2. Where..." it will be nice and more comfortable for me. Thank you.

[Polite Russian]

I will check tread tomorrow, or a bit later.

[Kathianne]

Ladies and Gentelmen, oooonly today (no, we got a lot of time), only you (yeah, only for debate policy) have the opportunity to ask some questions to my friend, who fought in Donbass. He is not a russian soldier and he's even not a serviceman. In Russia he was a journalist, but then he volunteered to fight against Ukrainian army. No government support. I asked him, if it will be okay, if you, friends, ask him some questions.
He is my friend and I asky all of you to be gentle and polite.
I will write all your questions, translate them for him and then will do the same with his answers.
Please, let's have no discussion here about that conflict, only questions. And if you mark them like: "1. Why... 2. Where..." it will be nice and more comfortable for me. Thank you.

What a great idea, I hope it works.

1. I'm a bit confused why a journalist with no military or political ties would choose to take up arms against the Ukraine. Please tell me what motivated you? I have friends from the Ukraine and they feared the day would come when Russia would try to take their land again, which is why they left.

[Drummond]

What a great idea, I hope it works.

1. I'm a bit confused why a journalist with no military or political ties would choose to take up arms against the Ukraine. Please tell me what motivated you? I have friends from the Ukraine and they feared the day would come when Russia would try to take their land again, which is why they left.

2. It surely follows that to take up arms against Ukraine, this amounts to a belief that Ukraine has no right to its own destiny. To be autonomous. To know and enjoy freedom. My question: What justifies that belief ?

[Polite Russian]

that's all of questions? O_o

[Drummond]

that's all of questions? O_o

From me, certainly. The psychology of this person interests me.

Freedom, the autonomy of a nation, these should matter, and be fundamental. So the answer to my question - if one is forthcoming ! - will be educational, I'd imagine ... I've the opportunity of trying to understand someone who will fight against that. Who thinks that a nation's chance of continued freedom somehow 'deserves' to be crushed.

[Polite Russian]

From me, certainly. The psychology of this person interests me.

Freedom, the autonomy of a nation, these should matter, and be fundamental. So the answer to my question - if one is forthcoming ! will be educational ... I've the opportunity of trying to understand someone who will fight against that. Who thinks that a nation's chance of freedom deserves to be crushed.




Look, it's not about take away Ukraine's freedom. It's about protecting russian people of Donbass. People of Donbass belive, that Ukraine will not give them freedom. They want to be Russians, to live in russian culture. And Ukrainian govrenment wants to take that from them. It's my answer, not from my friend :) The whole war is not about "Evil Russians" want to take "freedom of poor little Ukraine". At least not for people, who voulonteered to fight. The only reason why I didn't go there is that I was a cadet, when all of this started and it was REALLY complicated for me to get there. And I was only 18 years old. I saw how Ukraine used artillery to shoot at the peaceful cities, how they killed russian children, girls, somebody's mothers. And I'm not talking about some shitty media as Russia Today. There was a lot of videos not from media, but from people, who live there. A lot of stories from people.

You just don't know, what is really going on there. You have only media. And ALL media are liars. Your's, our's, nevermind. Media is an instrument of politics. But if the whole region took arms, don;t you think, that something wrong with the Ukrainian government?

[Drummond]

Look, it's not about take away Ukraine's freedom. It's about protecting russian people of Donbass. People of Donbass belive, that Ukraine will not give them freedom. They want to be Russians, to live in russian culture. And Ukrainian govrenment wants to take that from them. It's my answer, not from my friend :) The whole war is not about "Evil Russians" want to take "freedom of poor little Ukraine". At least not for people, who voulonteered to fight. The only reason why I didn't go there is that I was a cadet, when all of this started and it was REALLY complicated for me to get there. And I was only 18 years old. I saw how Ukraine used artillery to shoot at the peaceful cities, how they killed russian children, girls, somebody's mothers. And I'm not talking about some shitty media as Russia Today. There was a lot of videos not from media, but from people, who live there. A lot of stories from people.

You just don't know, what is really going on there. You have only media. And ALL media are liars. Your's, our's, nevermind. Media is an instrument of politics. But if the whole region took arms, don;t you think, that something wrong with the Ukrainian government?

I think that there are rebels in that region acting with full support from Russia. I believe this all adds up to an attempt to carve Ukraine up, make it a territory that can't function as a Nation State, and so Russia gets to capture all of it.

Is Donbass in Ukraine, or not ? Yes or no ?

[Gunny]

Look, it's not about take away Ukraine's freedom. It's about protecting russian people of Donbass. People of Donbass belive, that Ukraine will not give them freedom. They want to be Russians, to live in russian culture. And Ukrainian govrenment wants to take that from them. It's my answer, not from my friend :) The whole war is not about "Evil Russians" want to take "freedom of poor little Ukraine". At least not for people, who voulonteered to fight. The only reason why I didn't go there is that I was a cadet, when all of this started and it was REALLY complicated for me to get there. And I was only 18 years old. I saw how Ukraine used artillery to shoot at the peaceful cities, how they killed russian children, girls, somebody's mothers. And I'm not talking about some shitty media as Russia Today. There was a lot of videos not from media, but from people, who live there. A lot of stories from people.

You just don't know, what is really going on there. You have only media. And ALL media are liars. Your's, our's, nevermind. Media is an instrument of politics. But if the whole region took arms, don;t you think, that something wrong with the Ukrainian government?Does the chow suck?

[Drummond]

Point this out to your friend ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donbass


Power in the Donbass became concentrated in a regional political elite, known as oligarchs, during the early 2000s. Privatisation of state industries led to rampant corruption. Regional historian Hiroaki Kuromiya described this elite as the "Donbass clan", a group of people that controlled economic and political power in the region. Prominent members of the "clan" included Viktor Yanukovych and Rinat Akhmetov. The formation of the oligarchy, combined with corruption, led to perceptions of the Donbass as "the least democratic and the most sinister region in Ukraine".

In other parts of Ukraine during the 2000s, Donbass was often perceived as having a "thug culture", as being a "Soviet cesspool", and as "backward". Writing in the Narodne slovo newspaper in 2005, commentator Viktor Tkachenko said that Donbass was home to "fifth columns", and that speaking Ukrainian in the region was "not safe for one's health and life". It was also portrayed as being home to pro-Russian separatism. Donbass is home to a significantly higher number of cities and villages that were named after Communist figures compared to the rest of Ukraine. Despite this portrayal, surveys taken across that decade and during the 1990s showed strong support for remaining within Ukraine, and insignificant support for separatism.

[Drummond]

Polite Russian ..... when can we expect any answers from your friend ?

[Polite Russian]

@Polite Russian (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=3556) ..... when can we expect any answers from your friend ?
Drummond
As I know he is not in city right now. I gave him your questions.
Don't worry, I remember. As soon as possible.

[Gunny]

An observation or 2 and a question or two. And I'm asking you, not your grunt buddy.

1. What is the differnce between what you just said and what Hitler said when he took the Sudetenland? Then Austria? He was saving Germans from slavs and jews. So saving "Russians from who the Hell ever -- other Russians?" is different? You lost me there. Things are not okay to do just because it's you doing it.

2. How many people have to die for this special little cause? Russia is the second largest nation on Earth? Right? SO, y'all can't find enough dirt at home to fight and kill for without taking someone else's? How many people have died in Syria and for what? Ever been to that shit hole? So how many people have to die for some dust?

Sorry, and I mean no disrespect I'm just trying to understand how so many people who know nothing about killing are experts at it. I think all the shit-talkers should have to do all the fighting. And for what? A patch of dirt?

I was not being rude nor dismissive with my previous question. What do the girls look like? How's the chow? How's the weather? Uniform do it's job? Those are grunt questions. If you're looking for a grunt to tell you WHY some idiot politicians have them running around killing people? They'll probably tell you for God and country.

[Drummond]

@Drummond (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=2287)
As I know he is not in city right now. I gave him your questions.
Don't worry, I remember. As soon as possible.

Noted, w/thanks. I'm waiting for my answers with considerable interest.

[Polite Russian]

Gunny

An observation or 2 and a question or two. And I'm asking you, not your grunt buddy.

1. What is the differnce between what you just said and what Hitler said when he took the Sudetenland? Then Austria? He was saving Germans from slavs and jews. So saving "Russians from who the Hell ever -- other Russians?" is different? You lost me there. Things are not okay to do just because it's you doing it.

2. How many people have to die for this special little cause? Russia is the second largest nation on Earth? Right? SO, y'all can't find enough dirt at home to fight and kill for without taking someone else's? How many people have died in Syria and for what? Ever been to that shit hole? So how many people have to die for some dust?

Sorry, and I mean no disrespect I'm just trying to understand how so many people who know nothing about killing are experts at it. I think all the shit-talkers should have to do all the fighting. And for what? A patch of dirt?

I was not being rude nor dismissive with my previous question. What do the girls look like? How's the chow? How's the weather? Uniform do it's job? Those are grunt questions. If you're looking for a grunt to tell you WHY some idiot politicians have them running around killing people? They'll probably tell you for God and country.



Okay.
First question is about Crimea, as I understand. People of Crimea always wanted to be part of Russia. So I, actually, don't see any problems here. I used to serve with a guy, who took part in Crimea actions (without arms, like a civilian helper). He said, that crimea people actually wanted to join RF.

Okay... I'll try to make an excample.

Imagine Alaska. And imagine, that in result of some shit Alaska left USA. And not by it's will, but because one day some weird politician said, that: "hey! you are Russians now! goodbye!" (yeah, I know, sounds stupid as hell) and stay in... Russia for about 20 years. Russia was not actually okay, because russian government forced people of Alaska to learn russian, to do all government papers on russian, there are some "tourists" from russia, that come and kick faces because of people speak english and live like an Americans. They come and ruin Thanksgiving Day and Independence Day, rip USA flags and say, that this is not an american land anymore. So goes 20 years. It was not okay, but people was able to tolerate it. That weird guys was rare visitors, government did not actually do a lot to make Alaska more Russian and things was not good, but okay. THEN SUDDENLY there is a revolution in Moscow. And now there are some guys in Russian government, that hates USA, guys who promise to END americanism in Russia, that there will be no more USA in Alaska.

So Alaska people look at all of this and say "you know what? fuck you, we didn't even wanted to part of Russia. We are going back to USA. We are people of Alaska, our Ancestors lived here, we lived here and our children will live here. And you will not tell us what to do." So with help of US soldiers (yeah, there was a deal between USA and Russia that there are an american military base) Alaska make a referendum, take independence and then people make the second referendum and ask USA to take them back. *fanfare sound*


About Donbass. Imagine, that Vladivostok and Habarovsk is a cities with an American culture. And after revolution in Moscow people of that areas was scared just as Alska people. They did not accept NEW government, but they was ready for dialog. People made some checkpoints on a roads to not let some voulonteer nazi battalions to their land (reference to Ukraine battalions Azov, Donbas and some other). It was done after guys from this organisations stopped bus with people who was against revolution and killed them (if I find link, I will share).

Again. In the beginning of all of that Donbass was ready for dialog. But then Ukrainian army started to shoot and bomb the cities. People there now call Ukrainians only like "invaders".


Second
Well. I don't know. Both sides in Ukraine now do so many shit to each other, that there can be no peace between Ukrainians and Donbass people. Peace coud be on paper. But conflict between people will not end shortly. Sorry, it's very complicated question. I don't really know what to do. Donbass can't return to Ukraine. But it also can't join Russia. I mean our economics just will not be able to hande it :D. I think, that Donbass must have an independence and, after time pass, people must do their choise. For now a lot of them belive, that Russia betrayed Donbass. So I don't know.


That last questions are for my friend? :D

[Polite Russian]

Drummond


I contacted him, he is not in city now. He remember about questions and will answer when be back. Sorry for a long waiting

[Drummond]

@Drummond (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=2287)


I contacted him, he is not in city now. He remember about questions and will answer when be back. Sorry for a long waiting
Polite Russian ..

OK, fine - no worries. Thanks for your efforts.

[Polite Russian]

finally he gave me the answer
:D

So. Here it is:

"1. I'm a russian nationalist. That means that nation's interests are more important, that interest of government. And if, by circumstances, one nation stays in both sides of border, my people are still my compatriots, not foreigners. Oppression of the rights of Russians is the reason why I fought against the state of "ukraine".

2. The only one way not to afraid of russians - do not touch russians. Otherwise there will be not only Armed Forces of Russian Federation, but thousands of volunteers, PMC and so on. We just stand for our national interests. Not only USA have national interests. Deal with it :)"



Sorry for such a long waiting, friends

[Drummond]

finally he gave me the answer
:D

So. Here it is:

"1. I'm a russian nationalist. That means that nation's interests are more important, that interest of government. And if, by circumstances, one nation stays in both sides of border, my people are still my compatriots, not foreigners. Oppression of the rights of Russians is the reason why I fought against the state of "ukraine".

2. The only one way not to afraid of russians - do not touch russians. Otherwise there will be not only Armed Forces of Russian Federation, but thousands of volunteers, PMC and so on. We just stand for our national interests. Not only USA have national interests. Deal with it :)"



Sorry for such a long waiting, friends

Hello, Polite Russian.

I apologise. I'm only now catching up to the reply you've sent us here. I should've seen this long ago .. obviously.

I have to say this, though, in response. Your friend's response says little of value, and in fact only confirms my own understanding of how people such as him think. In summary ... he's saying, 'I identify with Russia. Russia's perceived interests are mine. Other interests hold no significance for me. Ukraine's interests ... they either do what Russia expects of them, if not, they can expect opposition'.

The point has been made earlier in this thread, and it's proven valid. There is essentially no difference between your friend's outlook and those of the Third Reich (Hitler and others, of course) when they took over the Sudetenland.

Russia has taken Crimea for its own. Now, we're discussing Donbass. Where is next ?? How many more land-grabs is Russia going to indulge in ??

Your friend hasn't thought past his own nationalistic loyalties, and he clearly doesn't care to. He's blind to any bigger picture. More, he's arrogant enough to think that the duty of others is just to put up with it all !

The same could've been said of the invading armies of the Third Reich. Sorry, Polite Russian, but there is NO difference between the thinking involved in either scenario.

We in the West have an accurate understanding of the empire-building arrogance pervading the Russian side.Your friend has given us a little dose of it. Clearly, we have nothing more to look for.

[Drummond]

finally he gave me the answer
:D

So. Here it is:

"1. I'm a russian nationalist. That means that nation's interests are more important, that interest of government. And if, by circumstances, one nation stays in both sides of border, my people are still my compatriots, not foreigners. Oppression of the rights of Russians is the reason why I fought against the state of "ukraine".

2. The only one way not to afraid of russians - do not touch russians. Otherwise there will be not only Armed Forces of Russian Federation, but thousands of volunteers, PMC and so on. We just stand for our national interests. Not only USA have national interests. Deal with it :)"



Sorry for such a long waiting, friends

I thought I'd add something to my last reply.

Your friend talks of, I quote, 'Oppression of the rights of Russians is the reason why I fought against the state of "ukraine".'

This is, of course, offensive !

During the Soviet days, it was Ukraine - which, then, had no autonomy separating any of its citizens from 'Mother Russia' - that suffered enormously when under the massively repressive rule of Stalin. MILLIONS died, there, thanks to Russian domination !!

Now, happily, it's different (- somewhat -). Ukraine (what there is of it) has a measure of autonomy. They rule themselves .. subject, though, to relentless pressures to defer to Russian domineering arrogance, be it from financial pressures, or land-grabs, or supposed 'pro-Russian' areas who'll oppose Ukrainian independence.

Ukraine is not the 'oppressor'. This is a lie. The opposite is true - Ukraine continues to be the victim of Russian oppression.

I am sorry to note that your friend is unapologetic for the role he chooses to play to further the Russian side in this, and is arrogant enough to be uncaring about any wider considerations. It's people like him who help prop up Russia's 'belief' that it can ride roughshod over others on the back of a supposed nationalistic empire-building .. a 'Russia matters, nothing else does' attitude.

However unpalatable a truth this is .. it's a fact that the very same spirit gave strength and durability to the arrogance which underpinned all that Hitler's Third Reich got up to, with all the inhumanities that spawned from it. Your friend needs to take a long look at his thinking, and see for himself if he can spot any difference between it, and that of Germany's occupational forces in Europe, during WWII.

The people of Ukraine SHOULD matter. They SHOULD have rights. They SHOULD have an unopposed shot at a lasting and stable autonomy. Who are the Russians, to think they have some 'righteous' justification in chipping away at it ??

[Drummond]

@Polite Russian (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=3556) ....

If you're able to, can you ask your Donbass friend another question ?

See this ...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44235402


The missile that downed a Malaysia Airlines flight over eastern Ukraine in 2014 belonged to a Russian brigade, international investigators say.

For the first time, the Dutch-led team said the missile had come from a unit based in western Russia.

All 298 people on board the Boeing 777 died when it broke apart in mid-air flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.

It was hit by a missile fired from rebel-held territory in Ukraine. Russia says none of its weapons was used.

But on Thursday Wilbert Paulissen, a Dutch official from the Joint Investigation Team (JIT), told reporters: "All the vehicles in a convoy carrying the missile were part of the Russian armed forces."

He restated the JIT's conclusion that the plane had been destroyed by a Russian-made Buk missile, adding that it had been supplied by the country's 53rd anti-aircraft brigade in Kursk.

My question is an obvious one (... to me, anyway !). Given your friend's highly nationalistic outlook, and also given my presumption that, in his eyes at least, Mother Russia can do no wrong ... I'd like him to tell us his view of the downing of that aircraft ! Does he think it CAN be justified ?

Does he think that actions taken by Mother Russia are automatically justified, BECAUSE it's Mother Russia that does them ?

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Ladies and Gentelmen, oooonly today (no, we got a lot of time), only you (yeah, only for debate policy) have the opportunity to ask some questions to my friend, who fought in Donbass.
Does he know any hot Russian babes that would like to come to America?