The Alliance Sans US In Syria

[Kathianne]

The unholy trinity: Russia, Iran, and Turkey.

https://hotair.com/archives/2018/04/05/turkey-iran-russia-new-allies-in-syria/

[Gunny]

The unholy trinity: Russia, Iran, and Turkey.

https://hotair.com/archives/2018/04/05/turkey-iran-russia-new-allies-in-syria/Might as well pull out of Syria. We never had anything there to begin with.

An alliance between Putin, Erdogan and Rhouani (however you spell the towelhead's name) could be a serious problem in the region. As usual, Turkey's showing it's two-faced crap.

The Sea of Marmara is in Turkey. It opens to the north into the Black Sea through the Bosporous, and the SW through the Dardenelles Strait into the Aegean Sea (and Med). If Russia gains control of that access, which I have suspected is Putin's primary aim all along, the Black Sea will be cut off to us AND Ukraine and any other Eastern European nation that uses the Black Sea as a waterway. It would definitely alter the strategic positioning of the Middle East, Eastern Europe, and would link Russia, Turkey and Iran by land as well as sea.

Turkey has always been a NATO advantage. If Erdogan makes a deal with the devil, it will be a disadvantage to all of NATO. Definitely bring Turkey's spot in NATO into question.

I don't like it. Our allies in the region certainly are not going to wait for us, especially Israel, if they feel threatened. But we've promised to back their play. I ran needs to be stopped now. IF Iran and Russia enter into a mutual defense agreement, plan on WW III. sooner or later. It'll bring the US, Israel, and probably Saudi Arabia into direct confrontation with Russia and Iran. If Turkey plays its usual hand, they'll vacillate until they see who's winning then choose the side of whoever is.

[Gunny]

I wonder when we get around to taking a break from pissing all over ourselves over partisan politics long enough to notice that Russia, China, Iran, and Turkey are all making aggressive moves militarily. Probably when our next "Pearl Harbor" or "9-1-1" happens. Usually what it takes around this damned place.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I wonder when we get around to taking a break from pissing all over ourselves over partisan politics long enough to notice that Russia, China, Iran, and Turkey are all making aggressive moves militarily. Probably when our next "Pearl Harbor" or "9-1-1" happens. Usually what it takes around this damned place.
Thank God our military just got a big pay check, regardless to whether or not we outspend all other nations on earth a few times over.

No one has a military like America. Don't want to say we been war happy but hell, we been fighting in some shit hole for so long we're pretty damn good at it by now. We've learned a lot of shit. We know how to fight. The worst part about it though is our recruitment is in the toilet. The past two generations of kids are nothing buy fat ass little sissy fucks, 75% of whom can't even qualify for military service. They can sit in their mommy's basement and kill people all day long on their game console while snacking on potato chips and dip and think they're the biggest bad asses on the planet, when in reality they're nothing more than a little pussy playing virtual reality garbage. They can go shoot up a school or building full of innocent people that aren't expecting them and can't defend themselves too. This is ALL, of COURSE, because of LIBERAL DEMOCRATS and their agenda, PERIOD.

Tell me I'm wrong but I think EVERY 18 year old should have to do a MANDATORY 2 years in the service, and basic training should NOT have SAFE PLACES or little cards to pull if the recruit feels STRESSED OUT. MOTHER FUCKER... YOU BETTER FEEL STRESSED OUT... YOU BETTER BE SCARED... THAT IS WHAT IT'S ALL FUCKING ABOUT... because this is your TRAINING! What the FUCK will do if when it's FOR REAL if you can't handle it in BASIC TRAINING?

[Gunny]

Thank God our military just got a big pay check, regardless to whether or not we outspend all other nations on earth a few times over.

No one has a military like America. Don't want to say we been war happy but hell, we been fighting in some shit hole for so long we're pretty damn good at it by now. We've learned a lot of shit. We know how to fight. The worst part about it though is our recruitment is in the toilet. The past two generations of kids are nothing buy fat ass little sissy fucks, 75% of whom can't even qualify for military service. They can sit in their mommy's basement and kill people all day long on their game console while snacking on potato chips and dip and think they're the biggest bad asses on the planet, when in reality they're nothing more than a little pussy playing virtual reality garbage. They can go shoot up a school or building full of innocent people that aren't expecting them and can't defend themselves too. This is ALL, of COURSE, because of LIBERAL DEMOCRATS and their agenda, PERIOD.

Tell me I'm wrong but I think EVERY 18 year old should have to do a MANDATORY 2 years in the service, and basic training should NOT have SAFE PLACES or little cards to pull if the recruit feels STRESSED OUT. MOTHER FUCKER... YOU BETTER FEEL STRESSED OUT... YOU BETTER BE SCARED... THAT IS WHAT IT'S ALL FUCKING ABOUT... because this is your TRAINING! What the FUCK will do if when it's FOR REAL if you can't handle it in BASIC TRAINING?

We do not have the military capability nor political will nor the manpower to take on Russia, Turkey and Iran at one time. We would lose a conventional war. They have all been militarizing for all these years we've been sitting on our asses or tinkering around playing at war in the ME.

The best thing we have going for us is Turkey at this point. Hopefully they'll turn out to be the dicks they always have and not get along with Russia and Iran.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

We do not have the military capability nor political will nor the manpower to take on Russia, Turkey and Iran at one time. We would lose a conventional war. They have all been militarizing for all these years we've been sitting on our asses or tinkering around playing at war in the ME.

The best thing we have going for us is Turkey at this point. Hopefully they'll turn out to be the dicks they always have and not get along with Russia and Iran.
Well, no we probably couldn't fight a war on two fronts, all be it FULL, ALL OUT war "right now." But no one has the technology we do... no one. But while we've been "tinkering around," we've been learning. I think head to head, one on one, we'd whip Russia like a red headed step child, being it never turned into nuclear war which in that case has no winner. Russia doesn't spend a fraction of the money we do on it's military. They can't afford it.

But with $700 BILLION to spend on our military right now, it won't take us long to get up to speed where we can take care of some pretty serious business, on multiple fronts.

[Gunny]

Well, no we probably couldn't fight a war on two fronts, all be it FULL, ALL OUT war "right now." But no one has the technology we do... no one. But while we've been "tinkering around," we've been learning. I think head to head, one on one, we'd whip Russia like a red headed step child, being it never turned into nuclear war which in that case has no winner. Russia doesn't spend a fraction of the money we do on it's military. They can't afford it.

But with $700 BILLION to spend on our military right now, it won't take us long to get up to speed where we can take care of some pretty serious business, on multiple fronts.Ever the optimist :)

We do not have the sheer numbers to defeat and occupy Russia alone. Russia has nukes. Turkey and Iran are getting them. You DO sound like a typical Air Force guy though. However, technology cannot replace boots on the ground.

Besides, China is probably selling our technology on E-Bay as we speak.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Ever the optimist :)

We do not have the sheer numbers to defeat and occupy Russia alone. Russia has nukes. Turkey and Iran are getting them. You DO sound like a typical Air Force guy though. However, technology cannot replace boots on the ground.

Besides, China is probably selling our technology on E-Bay as we speak.
Well... I read... I'm on a few Air Force websites, and I try and keep abreast of our new technology, and "sheer numbers" isn't an absolute on how to win wars in the 21st century. It's stealth, fire power and technology, but I don't think America ever wants to go to war with Russia and TAKE IT OVER, as in occupy it, and I know damn well Russia knows that it's an absolute fairy tale if they think they could do the same to us. Like Yamamoto said... "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." We didn't occupy Germany after we kicked their ass. We didn't occupy Japan after we kicked their ass. Beating them doesn't mean you have to occupy them.

And thank you Kathy for thanking Gunny's post as if I have no idea what I'm talking about. You must like the idea that America is weak and we couldn't fight our way out of a wet paper bag, that we're just a push over and couldn't stand up to jack.

[aboutime]

We do not have the military capability nor political will nor the manpower to take on Russia, Turkey and Iran at one time. We would lose a conventional war. They have all been militarizing for all these years we've been sitting on our asses or tinkering around playing at war in the ME.

The best thing we have going for us is Turkey at this point. Hopefully they'll turn out to be the dicks they always have and not get along with Russia and Iran.


Gunny. I am convinced. We are beyond the age of a Conventional kind of war now. High Tech is slowly taking over, from our former ground forces, to the drones, and unmanned aircraft that are capable of being airborne for 24 hours. As for Putin, and the Russian manpower. I am also convinced, as General Patton was convinced...even with fewer numbers. The U.S. Military has an endless capability for fuel, re-supply, food, ammo, medical care, and the Americans we have today who call themselves...U.S. Marines, Sailors, Soldiers, Airmen, and Coast Guardsmen.
We still have the WILL to protect our Nation, and we now have the RIGHT LEADER in charge.

[Gunny]

Well... I read... I'm on a few Air Force websites, and I try and keep abreast of our new technology, and "sheer numbers" isn't an absolute on how to win wars in the 21st century. It's stealth, fire power and technology, but I don't think America ever wants to go to war with Russia and TAKE IT OVER, as in occupy it, and I know damn well Russia knows that it's an absolute fairy tale if they think they could do the same to us. Like Yamamoto said... "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." We didn't occupy Germany after we kicked their ass. We didn't occupy Japan after we kicked their ass. Beating them doesn't mean you have to occupy them.

And thank you Kathy for thanking Gunny's post as if I have no idea what I'm talking about. You must like the idea that America is weak and we couldn't fight our way out of a wet paper bag, that we're just a push over and couldn't stand up to jack.There's nothing 21st century about winning a war. You own what you occupy.

How many times did the US blow up the bridge at Hanoi only to find it rebuilt in the morning? How many times did we blow up the Ho Chi Minh Trail only to find it re-routed?

So yeah, you need the numbers. Otherwise you're just blowing up people in the same places every day. That's a LOT of people to blow up. Both Napoleon and Hitler misjudged the size of Russia and it cost them everything. I see a LOT of misjudging and/or dismissing our enemies nowadays. THAT is a fatal mistake.

[Black Diamond]

There's nothing 21st century about winning a war. You own what you occupy.

How many times did the US blow up the bridge at Hanoi only to find it rebuilt in the morning? How many times did we blow up the Ho Chi Minh Trail only to find it re-routed?

So yeah, you need the numbers. Otherwise you're just blowing up people in the same places every day. That's a LOT of people to blow up. Both Napoleon and Hitler misjudged the size of Russia and it cost them everything. I see a LOT of misjudging and/or dismissing our enemies nowadays. THAT is a fatal mistake.
Nixon was called a war criminal when he bombed the Ho Chi Minh trail. Sneaky slopes went through Cambodia. Leftists worried more about Cambodia than our own guys.

[aboutime]

There's nothing 21st century about winning a war. You own what you occupy.

How many times did the US blow up the bridge at Hanoi only to find it rebuilt in the morning? How many times did we blow up the Ho Chi Minh Trail only to find it re-routed?

So yeah, you need the numbers. Otherwise you're just blowing up people in the same places every day. That's a LOT of people to blow up. Both Napoleon and Hitler misjudged the size of Russia and it cost them everything. I see a LOT of misjudging and/or dismissing our enemies nowadays. THAT is a fatal mistake.

Gunny. As a Vietnam veteran myself. You must remember. In NAM there were no SMART BOMBS, and no STEALTH aircraft, coming from Nuclear Aircraft carriers..other than The BIG E!

Times have changed for all of the military since the 70's. I'm sure you know that too!
As for blowing up bridges on the HO CHI MINH trail. Today's weapons are designed NOT TO LEAVE anything after the military BREAKS them, and KILLS them.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

There's nothing 21st century about winning a war. You own what you occupy.

How many times did the US blow up the bridge at Hanoi only to find it rebuilt in the morning? How many times did we blow up the Ho Chi Minh Trail only to find it re-routed?

So yeah, you need the numbers. Otherwise you're just blowing up people in the same places every day. That's a LOT of people to blow up. Both Napoleon and Hitler misjudged the size of Russia and it cost them everything. I see a LOT of misjudging and/or dismissing our enemies nowadays. THAT is a fatal mistake.
Yeah it is about the 21st century, and like I say, we don't have to and we haven't in the past occupied what we won. It's all about making the enemy relent, and we have shit now that we can just push buttons to send, and it doesn't miss like it used to either, it hits what we send it to hit, and they don't even know it's coming.

Modern war boils down to who has the most sophisticated shit, and who has the most of it to use, that's us. Troops on the ground aren't really going to be much of a factor. Occupying isn't winning. Killing enough of them or even all of them is, and destroying their capability to wage war, short of a nuclear war, I think we can go toe to toe with any nation on earth. We got shit we haven't even used yet.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ya9cMNQPDU

Now think about the stuff that we don't know about yet, and you KNOW we ALWAYS have that... the TOP SECRET shit that NOBODY knows about... yet. Like when I went to Area 51, I saw the F-117A Stealth Bomber 12 YEARS before ANYONE knew we had that, but it was FLYING and FULLY OPERATIONAL.

Hell who knows... we COULD have a UFO that has combat capability... and we're just SITTING on it like an ACE IN THE HOLE. Can you say ROSWELL?

[Gunny]

Gunny. As a Vietnam veteran myself. You must remember. In NAM there were no SMART BOMBS, and no STEALTH aircraft, coming from Nuclear Aircraft carriers..other than The BIG E!

Times have changed for all of the military since the 70's. I'm sure you know that too!
As for blowing up bridges on the HO CHI MINH trail. Today's weapons are designed NOT TO LEAVE anything after the military BREAKS them, and KILLS them.Nice toys. They mean nothing except better accuracy. They blow up the same amount of dirt. Or camels if Clinton's President. That would be two.

Again, if you cannot occupy the land, you control nothing and there is no win. We cannot occupy the land. We don't have enough people if every swinging d*ck bled red, white and blue. Now subtract the half that doesn't and your REALLY don't have enough.

This is MOST apparent in O-blah-blah declaring victory and leaving Iraq. The vacuum sucked ISIS in with it and we had to re-take it. You have to take and hold the turf or you don't win regardless the number of smart toys you throw at them.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Nice toys. They mean nothing except better accuracy. They blow up the same amount of dirt. Or camels if Clinton's President. That would be two.

Again, if you cannot occupy the land, you control nothing and there is no win. We cannot occupy the land. We don't have enough people if every swinging d*ck bled red, white and blue. Now subtract the half that doesn't and your REALLY don't have enough.

This is MOST apparent in O-blah-blah declaring victory and leaving Iraq. The vacuum sucked ISIS in with it and we had to re-take it. You have to take and hold the turf or you don't win regardless the number of smart toys you throw at them.
But now you're getting into whether or not we should have gone into Iraq at all. Was it really a strategic move? Did we have to? What did we gain? Well... nothing. We destabilized the ME and for God only knows how long. And what is our purpose there now? What is our purpose being anywhere in the middle east? To kill ISIS? I agree with you that we're just playing PATTY CAKE with them over there and that's a stupid strategy. If I was Trump, I'd pull us out of the ME entirely.

You tell me why we're there... what possible strategic advantage does that give us? What are we there to GAIN?

We've spent SEVEN TRILLION DOLLARS in the ME, and what benefit has that been to us?

[aboutime]

Nice toys. They mean nothing except better accuracy. They blow up the same amount of dirt. Or camels if Clinton's President. That would be two.

Again, if you cannot occupy the land, you control nothing and there is no win. We cannot occupy the land. We don't have enough people if every swinging d*ck bled red, white and blue. Now subtract the half that doesn't and your REALLY don't have enough.

This is MOST apparent in O-blah-blah declaring victory and leaving Iraq. The vacuum sucked ISIS in with it and we had to re-take it. You have to take and hold the turf or you don't win regardless the number of smart toys you throw at them.


It sounds so strange, coming from you. Calling the weapons we have TOYS. If that is how you see the Greatest Military on Earth's capabilities as PLAYING. I'm honestly disappointed how little confidence you..A MARINE, has for our present day military that is growing even stronger, thanks to our President...you don't like. We don't fight to protect Our Nation to take another nations space away.
And, that is my opinion.

[Gunny]

It sounds so strange, coming from you. Calling the weapons we have TOYS. If that is how you see the Greatest Military on Earth's capabilities as PLAYING. I'm honestly disappointed how little confidence you..A MARINE, has for our present day military that is growing even stronger, thanks to our President...you don't like. We don't fight to protect Our Nation to take another nations space away.
And, that is my opinion.I've ALWAYS called weapons "toys". Just a term. Means nothing one way or the other.

I'm a realist. I'm the one that had to wade through all the gratuitous BS and make what I had work. Nowhere in there is there room for people I should have and don't, weapons I should have, and don't, and capabilities my unit is not suited to. If I CANNOT SEE THAT, I am a failure as a leader and am going to get people killed expecting duck eggs out of hens.

Our military is not based on winning a sustained, large-scale land war the size and scope of taking on Russia, much less if it is allied with Turkey and Iran. They would own from the North Sea to the Indian Ocean. The US Navy would have very little play in such a war. OBE. There's no place for it to go. That's the US' most powerful weapon taken right off the game board from the start.

The Germans had the best technology in the world, and the superior trained and equipped forces and Russia beat them. Because Russia has a bunch of basic junk weapons and millions of people they can hand them to, get them in line and move forward. They overwhelmed the Germans with numbers and nothing else. They don't care who nor how many people they throw at you. They just keep it up until you run out of people.

Our doctrine has never been to engage Russia (or the USSR) in a sustained land war. It was to defend Europe (with European bodies to throw at them) and nuke Moscow. The mutually assured destruction thing has always been a deterrent. Putin knows this. So, he doesn't use nukes because he knows we won't if he doesn't. While we've been pissing around in the rear with the gear, Putin has been rearming Russia, and helping Turkey and Iran with nuclear technology.

And no, I don't have faith in people that think guns kill people and will vote for the likes of Barrack Obama and Hillary Clinton. Or people who can't figure out how blacks make up 13% of the US population, commit over 50% of the crimes, -- how that adds up to more blacks by percentage in prisons. You can't fix stupid.

[Black Diamond]

I've ALWAYS called weapons "toys". Just a term. Means nothing one way or the other.

I'm a realist. I'm the one that had to wade through all the gratuitous BS and make what I had work. Nowhere in there is there room for people I should have and don't, weapons I should have, and don't, and capabilities my unit is not suited to. If I CANNOT SEE THAT, I am a failure as a leader and am going to get people killed expecting duck eggs out of hens.

Our military is not based on winning a sustained, large-scale land war the size and scope of taking on Russia, much less if it is allied with Turkey and Iran. They would own from the North Sea to the Indian Ocean. The US Navy would have very little play in such a war. OBE. There's no place for it to go. That's the US' most powerful weapon taken right off the game board from the start.

The Germans had the best technology in the world, and the superior trained and equipped forces and Russia beat them. Because Russia has a bunch of basic junk weapons and millions of people they can hand them to, get them in line and move forward. They overwhelmed the Germans with numbers and nothing else. They don't care who nor how many people they throw at you. They just keep it up until you run out of people.

Our doctrine has never been to engage Russia (or the USSR) in a sustained land war. It was to defend Europe (with European bodies to throw at them) and nuke Moscow. The mutually assured destruction thing has always been a deterrent. Putin knows this. So, he doesn't use nukes because he knows we won't if he doesn't. While we've been pissing around in the rear with the gear, Putin has been rearming Russia, and helping Turkey and Iran with nuclear technology.

And no, I don't have faith in people that think guns kill people and will vote for the likes of Barrack Obama and Hillary Clinton. Or people who can't figure out how blacks make up 13% of the US population, commit over 50% of the crimes, -- how that adds up to more blacks by percentage in prisons. You can't fix stupid.
You keep reinforcing my point that we are living on borrowed time.

[Gunny]

You keep reinforcing my point that we are living on borrowed time.That depends. As far as millenials go? Yep. As far as beating Russia? It is possible and we have the capability. But no one is going to do what it takes to do it anymore than anyone has stopped Iran. Playing ostrich while they DO become more powerful.

They might not be all that bright, but they are at least smart enough to bide their time. They won't attack us until they are ready. THEN it will be too late and it will be our own damned fault. They're aligning themselves and arming themselves and we're arguing with China and North Korea. They're training to conduct conventional warfare while we play adviser.

Last time the exact same game got played at the world level we got Pearl Harbor. Caught with out arrogant pants around our ankles on Sunday morning pulling weekend libo like no would dare attack us.