Russia To Expel UK Diplomats As Crisis Over Nerve Toxin Attack Deepens

[Gunny]

March 16, 2018
By Olzhas Auyezov and Guy Faulconbridge
ASTANA/LONDON (Reuters) – Russia is set to expel British diplomats in retaliation for Prime Minister Theresa May’s decision to kick out 23 Russians as relations with London crashed to a post-Cold War low over an attack involving a military-grade nerve agent on English soil.
After the first known offensive use of a nerve agent in Europe since World War Two, Britain has pointed the finger at President Vladimir Putin and on Thursday May gave the 23 Russians who she said were spies working under diplomatic cover at the embassy in London a week to leave.
Moscow has denied any involvement in the attempted murder of former Russian double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter. It has cast Britain as a post-colonial power unsettled by its impending exit from the European Union, and even suggested London fabricated the attack to whip up anti-Russian hysteria.
The diplomats are due to leave London on March 20, RIA news agency quoted Russia’s ambassador to Britain as saying.
Separately on Friday, police in London launched a murder investigation into the death this week of a Russian associate of late tycoon Boris Berezovsky, but said nothing at this stage suggested a link to the Skripal case.
Asked by a Reuters reporter in the Kazakh capital Astana if Moscow would expel British diplomats, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov smiled and said: “We will, of course.”
Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov reiterated Moscow’s line that there was no “clear evidence” for any Russian involvement in the attack, RIA reported.
Britain, the United States, Germany and France jointly called on Russia on Thursday to explain the attack. U.S. President Donald Trump said it looked as though the Russians were behind it.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel said an EU summit next week would discuss the issue, in the first instance to seek clarity. Any boycott of the soccer World Cup, which Russia hosts this summer, is not an immediate priority, she said.
“Many trails point to the fact that Russia is responsible,” Merkel said just before talks in Paris with French President Emmanuel Macron where they were expected to discuss an appropriate response to the attack.
INDEPENDENT VERIFICATION
Russia has refused Britain’s demands to explain how Novichok, a nerve agent developed by the Soviet military, was used against the Skripals in the English city of Salisbury.
Russia’s envoy to London, Alexander Yakovenko, said he had received a diplomatic note informing him that the Skripals were in a critical condition but he also accused Britain of “hiding” further details.
“The British keep hiding the medical assessment from us, we do not have access to the patients, we do not have a chance to talk to the doctors,” RIA quoted the ambassador as saying.
“They may be alive, maybe not, maybe nothing happened at all,” he said.
London’s Metropolitan Police said on Friday they believed the former associate of Berezovsky, Nikolai Glushkov, had been strangled to death and counter-terrorism officers would continue to lead the investigation.
Glushkov, 68, was discovered dead on Monday in south-west London.
Berezovsky was found dead in March 2013 with a scarf tied around his neck in the bathroom of a luxury mansion west of London. The 67-year-old had been one of Russia’s most powerful figures in the years after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
A British judge in 2014 said he could not be sure if Berezovsky killed himself or was the victim of foul play.
Russian investigators said on Friday they had opened a criminal investigation into the attempted murder of Yulia Skripal and a murder investigation into Glushkov’s death.
They also offered to cooperate with British authorities.
Russia offered some cooperation to British authorities after the 2006 London murder of ex-KGB agent Alexander Litvinenko too. Britain said the assistance in that case was not enough, and in 2016, a judge-led inquiry concluded that Putin had probably approved Litvinenko’s murder, something Moscow denies.
Britain has written to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons in The Hague, which monitors compliance with the global convention outlawing the use of such weapons, to obtain independent verification of the substance used.
Skripal, a former colonel in the GRU who betrayed dozens of Russian agents to British intelligence, and his daughter have been critically ill since March 4, when they were found unconscious on a bench.
A British policeman was also poisoned when he went to help them and remains in a serious but stable condition.
British investigators are working on the theory that an item of clothing or cosmetics or a gift in the luggage of Skripal’s daughter was impregnated with the toxin, and then opened in Skripal’s house in Salisbury, the Daily Telegraph said.
Putin, a former KGB spy who is poised to win a (http://www.oann.com/russia-to-expel-uk-diplomats-as-crisis-over-nerve-toxin-attack-deepens/#) fourth term in an election on Sunday, has so far only said publicly that Britain should get to the bottom of what has happened.
“SHOCKING AND UNFORGIVABLE”
In a sign (http://www.oann.com/russia-to-expel-uk-diplomats-as-crisis-over-nerve-toxin-attack-deepens/#) of just how tense the relationship has become, British and Russian ministers used openly insulting language while the Russian ambassador said Britain was trying to divert attention from the difficulties it was having managing its exit from the European Union.
British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson said Britain’s quarrel was not with the Russian people but with the Kremlin.
“Our quarrel is with Putin’s Kremlin, and with his decision – and we think it overwhelmingly likely that it was his decision – to direct the use of a nerve agent on the streets of the UK.”
The Kremlin’s Peskov called the allegation that Putin was involved “a shocking and unforgivable breach of the diplomatic rules of decent behaviour”, TASS news agency reported.
British Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson sparked particular outrage in Moscow with his blunt comment on Thursday that “Russia should go away, it should shut up”.
Russia’s Defence Ministry said he was an “intellectual impotent” and Lavrov said he probably lacked education (http://www.oann.com/russia-to-expel-uk-diplomats-as-crisis-over-nerve-toxin-attack-deepens/#). Williamson studied social science at the University of Bradford.
In London, opposition Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn struck a starkly different tone to that of the British government by warning against rushing into a new Cold War before full evidence of Moscow’s culpability was proven.
(Additional reporting by William James, David Milliken and Kate Holton in London, and Maria Tsvetkova, Jack Stubbs, Andrew Osborn and Denis Pinchuk in Moscow; Writing by Guy Faulconbridge/Andrew Osborn; Editing by Gareth Jones)
http://www.oann.com/russia-to-expel-uk-diplomats-as-crisis-over-nerve-toxin-attack-deepens/

Answers one question at least. the UK has gone to the Hague. If I recall correctly, that's about as "international law" as it gets. So I'd say the accusation Great Britain is not in compliance with international law is incorrect.

[Drummond]

The Russians have done as threatened. They've matched the number of 'diplomats' we've expelled, with an equal number of expulsions out of Russia of our own people.

Being Russian, and arrogant, and wishing to go one better to presumably 'teach us a lesson' for having the 'gall' to act against them AT ALL, they've not quite stopped there. See this report:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43440992


The Russian foreign ministry said the UK staff would be expelled from Moscow within a week in response to Britain's decision to expel 23 Russian diplomats.

It also said it would close the British Council in Russia, which promotes cultural ties between the nations, and the British Consulate in St Petersburg.

UK Prime Minister Theresa May said: "We anticipated a response of this kind."

She said that the government will consider its next steps "in the coming days, alongside our allies and partners".

"We will never tolerate a threat to the life of British citizens and others on British soil from the Russian Government," she added.

The British Council, the UK's international organisation for cultural relations and educational opportunities, said it was "profoundly disappointed" at being told to cease operations in Russia.

I can understand that additional action. It stands to reason that, especially in this climate, Russia wouldn't want Russians to be exposed to any more of our culture than they could absolutely help. Decency ? Regard for individual human life ? Democratic accountability ? Standing up for reputable values ? These are a part of our long-standing and traditional culture.

We don't automatically subscribe to a 'Might is Right' imperative.

Russia, by total contrast, has Putin acting as though he's its absolute ruler ... AND ... thinking he has every right to - because 'Might is Right', in his 'philosophy' - and he wants his people to not experience any alternative culture. So, obviously, to underscore to us that he'll never bend his thinking, and to ensure that nobody else in his sphere of influence changes THEIRS, he's acted to further isolate Russians from alternatives.

We're dangerous people, we Brits ....:rolleyes:;);)

[High_Plains_Drifter]

The Russians have done as threatened. They've matched the number of 'diplomats' we've expelled, with an equal number of expulsions out of Russia of our own people.

Being Russian, and arrogant, and wishing to go one better to presumably 'teach us a lesson' for having the 'gall' to act against them AT ALL, they've not quite stopped there. See this report:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43440992



I can understand that additional action. It stands to reason that, especially in this climate, Russia wouldn't want Russians to be exposed to any more of our culture than they could absolutely help. Decency ? Regard for individual human life ? Democratic accountability ? Standing up for reputable values ? These are a part of our long-standing and traditional culture.

We don't automatically subscribe to a 'Might is Right' imperative.

Russia, by total contrast, has Putin acting as though he's its absolute ruler ... AND ... thinking he has every right to - because 'Might is Right', in his 'philosophy' - and he wants his people to not experience any alternative culture. So, obviously, to underscore to us that he'll never bend his thinking, and to ensure that nobody else in his sphere of influence changes THEIRS, he's acted to further isolate Russians from alternatives.

We're dangerous people, we Brits ....:rolleyes:;);)
Odd though... that the Russians can poison a couple people and May freaks out. But yet the UK throws open it's borders and allows hundreds of thousands of muslims in and they rape, beat and kill people, create no go zones and don't assimilate, and the Brits response to that is... ELECT A MUSLIM MAYOR.

Why not start kicking the muslims out?

I know you probably agree with me, pard. The same thing is happening here, so I could be asking the same question of America.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Odd though... that the Russians can poison a couple people and May freaks out. But yet the UK throws open it's borders and allows hundreds of thousands of muslims in and they rape, beat and kill people, create no go zones and don't assimilate, and the Brits response to that is... ELECT A MUSLIM MAYOR.

Why not start kicking the muslims out?

I know you probably agree with me, pard. The same thing is happening here, so I could be asking the same question of America.

Is there no possibility that this could have been done by other parties to further the alienation and ire directed at Russia?
I think there is that possibility and its in CHINA'S BEST INTERESTS TO DO SO. As it may eventually end up bring further sanctions/ actions from America against RUSSIA.
Common knowledge that the damn globalists, rotten worthless ffing dems and the damn muzzies all want that to occur.
Why would the Russians use a nerve agent that would lay the blame at their feet?
Are they not capable of using a pistol, knife, a club, a rope, an ice pick or any other instrument to kill?
perhaps solid proof given would have been the best course rather than leveling actions based upon mere presumptions..
This information makes it look like to me, this is a set up, either by CERTAIN BRIT ENTITIES, or the other enemies of Russia and/or USA seeking to worsen RELATIONS BETWEEN USA and Russia while diverting attention away from themselves-- namely China and its territorial grabs.....
GETTING US DRAWN INTO A WAR AGAINST RUSSIA BY WAY OF OUR BAKING OUR ALLY BRITAIN, WOULD DO WONDERS FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF CHINA..
As China so desperately needs us not o move to India for it to be our new manufacturing supplier of cheap (slave)labor.......
MAY BE BEST TO LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE HERE AND SEE WHO THE HELL THIS COULD BE HELPING AND ADVANCING IN THE WORLD.

REMEMBER THE NARRATIVE BEING PUT FORTH IS THAT TRUMP AND PUTIN ARE JUST TOO CHUMMY.....-TYR

[Drummond]

Odd though... that the Russians can poison a couple people and May freaks out. But yet the UK throws open it's borders and allows hundreds of thousands of muslims in and they rape, beat and kill people, create no go zones and don't assimilate, and the Brits response to that is... ELECT A MUSLIM MAYOR.

Why not start kicking the muslims out?

I know you probably agree with me, pard. The same thing is happening here, so I could be asking the same question of America.

I see your point, and I've got sympathy with it. Trouble is ... we've had our Left wing create for us, over decades, a political correctness regime which gives protection to religious minorities. There's no hope at all of kicking any Muslims out, short of individual ones provably committing crimes, being radicalised, being established as terrorists (and even then, we'd probably keep them here, and incarcerate them).

Go in for deportations on the basis of adherence to a religion ... well, it'd never happen, and would probably be considered a racist act to ever try (since Muslims have successfully managed to equate their religion with racial identity, even though that's a total nonsense).

No -- thanks to Leftie 'terraforming' of the way we are required to think, we can't even speak out publicly against a religion without incurring potential police interest !

I don't agree that Mrs May is 'freaking out' ... not at all. In fact, her response is long overdue from any of our leading politicians. We only grumbled when Markov was poisoned with a poison-tipped umbrella. We did barely any more than that when Litvinenko was poisoned with Polonium, a radioactive poison which went on to contaminate locations Litvinenko visited afterwards !!

Litvinenko, I understand, died an agonising death. Nobody was in any doubt that Russia was to blame.

This time ... it's even clearer-cut ... we have samples of a chemical toxin that was ONLY EVER PRODUCED IN RUSSIA, AND NEVER RECORDED AS BEING HELD IN ANY OTHER TERRITORY OR COUNTRY. So, Russia is the only possible source of it. Its deployment affected 21 citizens, most of whom were only involved because they happened to be nearby at the time of deployment.

The British have been far too patient ... and it's only earned us more of the same murderous behaviour from Russia. Time, then, to take a stand. Time to make it VERY clear that this cannot continue. To make it clear that no civilised country can tolerate such murderous, criminal, EVEN TERRORIST, actions within its borders, perpetrated against any of its people.

Mrs May is only doing what Russia has long since been earning for itself. I salute her for making a stand.

I might add this: Russia's claim to be anti-terrorist is shot to hell over this. You don't deploy a chemical nerve agent in a civilian area, risking the lives of anyone nearby, and yet NOT behave as a terrorist would do. Terrorists kill indiscriminately, and en masse. Russia, though it may have had targets in mind, nonetheless knowingly released an agent which could be expected to endanger scores of people.

I submit THAT THIS CONSTITUTES AN ACT OF TERRORISM.

Those who'd consider themselves staunch anti-terrorist figures may wish to ponder that issue. Russia's claim to be anti terrorist no longer holds water. Terrorism cannot be defended. EVER. End of story.

[Drummond]

Is there no possibility that this could have been done by other parties to further the alienation and ire directed at Russia?
I think there is that possibility and its in CHINA'S BEST INTERESTS TO DO SO. As it may eventually end up bring further sanctions/ actions from America against RUSSIA.
Common knowledge that the damn globalists, rotten worthless ffing dems and the damn muzzies all want that to occur.
Why would the Russians use a nerve agent that would lay the blame at their feet?
Are they not capable of using a pistol, knife, a club, a rope, an ice pick or any other instrument to kill?
perhaps solid proof given would have been the best course rather than leveling actions based upon mere presumptions..
This information makes it look like to me, this is a set up, either by CERTAIN BRIT ENTITIES, or the other enemies of Russia and/or USA seeking to worsen RELATIONS BETWEEN USA and Russia while diverting attention away from themselves-- namely China and its territorial grabs.....
GETTING US DRAWN INTO A WAR AGAINST RUSSIA BY WAY OF OUR BAKING OUR ALLY BRITAIN, WOULD DO WONDERS FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF CHINA..
As China so desperately needs us not o move to India for it to be our new manufacturing supplier of cheap (slave)labor.......
MAY BE BEST TO LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE HERE AND SEE WHO THE HELL THIS COULD BE HELPING AND ADVANCING IN THE WORLD.

REMEMBER THE NARRATIVE BEING PUT FORTH IS THAT TRUMP AND PUTIN ARE JUST TOO CHUMMY.....-TYR

Tyr -- I'm sorry, but I'm very disappointed with you for posting this.

There has been NO so-called 'set up' by any British authority over this, and I'm telling you, it's insulting to suggest it. We are victims of an assassination attempt on our soil, and of a type which qualifies it for categorisation as a terrorist act. Tyr, if anything, you should be lending us unqualified support, since this is true. Think of it ... a chemical weapon, a nerve agent, OF MILITARY GRADE, deployed in a British town ... a civilian environment.

If this had happened in mainland America, would you be taking the same line ? I somehow doubt it.

We know what the agent was (.. is). We know it was only ever produced in Russia. Further ... the OPCW, an intergovernmental agency, oversaw supposed 'destructions' of it decades ago ... they were assured then that stocks no longer existed. Well ... THEY CLEARLY DO ... which means that the OPCW was actively deceived by Russia at the time.

Russia has never reported any stocks of this agent as being sold to others, or stockpiled anywhere outside of Russia. They've reported no thefts of it at any time ... not even now, when it'd pay them to claim it.

I'm pleased that Donald Trump is standing full-square with us over this .. indeed, his doing so may help finally bury some sick rumours that he was ever allied to Russia in any capacity. You have a very fine President there !:saluting2:

No . What we have, I believe, is Putin trying to send a message, with his Presidential election now imminent. He's saying ... I will do as I wish. You will not oppose me. Nobody will oppose me .. ever. Try it, and forever fear for your safety afterwards.

I'm sorry to say that certain contributions I've seen on this board from those who are clearly supportive of Putin betray what must fuel Putin's own attitude to world affairs .. an arrogant, defiant, 'Might is Right' attitude. Putin clearly thinks that, if he has the power to do something, no matter how heinous, well ... the 'might' that's demonstrated by acting in that way, is its automatic justification.

There's no regret involved, no evidence of it, nor the smallest likelihood of its appearing. Not from Putin. Not from any of his staunch supporters. Review pro-Russian propagandist offerings you've seen here, and realise that for yourself, Tyr.

Such an attitude is morally bankrupt. More, it's a threat to us all (provably so, to citizens in the UK !!).

Tyr -- please reconsider your thinking. You do need to. I consider it unsupportable by the reality in play. The UK deserves support in holding to account those who ARE responsible for what's been perpetrated within our borders. Consider what is REALLY justified, here.

Consider what should be an automatic norm of behaviour from any country calling itself civilised. We either stand in support of it. Or, we tolerate its flagrant and murderous violation.

-- WHICH ??

[Kathianne]

Drummond, I've been reading your posts on the subject, very informative. I've been aware of Russia poisoning dissidents and spies for many years now. Putin has just upped the game.

I understand Tyr's warning regarding China, but in this case I think it's beyond obvious that it's Russia.

[Drummond]

Drummond, I've been reading your posts on the subject, very informative. I've been aware of Russia poisoning dissidents and spies for many years now. Putin has just upped the game.

I understand Tyr's warning regarding China, but in this case I think it's beyond obvious that it's Russia.

Thank you for this.

The BBC itself confirmed today that OPCW people will visit our Porton Down facility soon to collect a sample of the nerve agent, to determine what it is for themselves, and to establish its point of origin. We're told that the thoroughness of their testing will mean we may have to wait around two weeks for results to come through.

The OPCW has its own concern in this. If (as of course we expect) they DO confirm its Russian origin, then Russia will have to explain that against a background of having claimed decades ago to the OPCW that all such stocks had been destroyed. It looks as though Russia lied to the OPCW about that at the time.

However - this is all subject to confirmation.

A small development this morning ... and it's a pity that the BBC's iPlayer system doesn't allow for viewing outside the UK ... anyway, on BBC1's Andrew Marr programme, Russia's ambassador to the EU dropped a hint (introduced the idea) that 'maybe' Porton Down, in Wiltshire, UK, was ITSELF the source of the nerve agent. Marr, in his interview, of course tried to pin him down on this ... but Vladimir Chizhov, the ambassador in question, then said 'I don't know' when pressed for his definitive statement.

Our Foreign Office has wasted no time in dismissing that as, I quote, 'absolute nonsense'.

A great pity that I can't post the Chizhov interview as a video clip (if a chance to post it here, maybe from YouTube, comes along, I'll certainly do so). It comes across as a slimy performance, a mischief-making one, from Chizhov's attitude.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Tyr -- I'm sorry, but I'm very disappointed with you for posting this.

There has been NO so-called 'set up' by any British authority over this, and I'm telling you, it's insulting to suggest it. We are victims of an assassination attempt on our soil, and of a type which qualifies it for categorisation as a terrorist act. Tyr, if anything, you should be lending us unqualified support, since this is true. Think of it ... a chemical weapon, a nerve agent, OF MILITARY GRADE, deployed in a British town ... a civilian environment.

If this had happened in mainland America, would you be taking the same line ? I somehow doubt it.

We know what the agent was (.. is). We know it was only ever produced in Russia. Further ... the OPCW, an intergovernmental agency, oversaw supposed 'destructions' of it decades ago ... they were assured then that stocks no longer existed. Well ... THEY CLEARLY DO ... which means that the OPCW was actively deceived by Russia at the time.

Russia has never reported any stocks of this agent as being sold to others, or stockpiled anywhere outside of Russia. They've reported no thefts of it at any time ... not even now, when it'd pay them to claim it.

I'm pleased that Donald Trump is standing full-square with us over this .. indeed, his doing so may help finally bury some sick rumours that he was ever allied to Russia in any capacity. You have a very fine President there !:saluting2:

No . What we have, I believe, is Putin trying to send a message, with his Presidential election now imminent. He's saying ... I will do as I wish. You will not oppose me. Nobody will oppose me .. ever. Try it, and forever fear for your safety afterwards.

I'm sorry to say that certain contributions I've seen on this board from those who are clearly supportive of Putin betray what must fuel Putin's own attitude to world affairs .. an arrogant, defiant, 'Might is Right' attitude. Putin clearly thinks that, if he has the power to do something, no matter how heinous, well ... the 'might' that's demonstrated by acting in that way, is its automatic justification.

There's no regret involved, no evidence of it, nor the smallest likelihood of its appearing. Not from Putin. Not from any of his staunch supporters. Review pro-Russian propagandist offerings you've seen here, and realise that for yourself, Tyr.

Such an attitude is morally bankrupt. More, it's a threat to us all (provably so, to citizens in the UK !!).

Tyr -- please reconsider your thinking. You do need to. I consider it unsupportable by the reality in play. The UK deserves support in holding to account those who ARE responsible for what's been perpetrated within our borders. Consider what is REALLY justified, here.

Consider what should be an automatic norm of behaviour from any country calling itself civilised. We either stand in support of it. Or, we tolerate its flagrant and murderous violation.

-- WHICH ??

MY FRIEND, I MEANT NO DISRESPECT TO THE BRITS.
However, the possibility that this is a set-up still exists in my mind. That is unless you can prove that no way in this universe could others have gotten even a small quantity of that specific nerve agent and used it to further the widening rift between Russia and USA.
Just look at how desperately the dem party and the damn globalists are trying to create hostilities between Trump/USA and Russia, how they vilify both leaders.. And how they do such things as a matter of course.
I truly think both scenarios are possibilities , thus I can not blindly jump to the conclusion , that this incident so obviously leads one to leap to.
That blatantly obvious (and perhaps engineered conclusion) either points to Putin having it done to send a blasting message to Britain or else others doing so to further vilify Russia.
Are you so sure that China, globalists /or the ffing dem party had no hand in this as a set-up?
Even after seeing what they did with the so-called, Arab Spring crap?

I have seen no absolute evidence that it was Russia ...
Which leads me to ask- why is the evidence so glaringly obvious, and left behind to incriminate Russia?????

Seeing as how Britain for decades has been our strongest ally, doing such a set up has the possibility of weakening us too, since we will of course back Britain-- just as we most definitely should.

I hope you will reread my original post and try to see where I am coming from , as it was not intended to vilify the BRITS.
If new evidence leads me to see that Russia is indeed the true culprit , I will admit such.
I have been wrong before, remember I was in our debate on Thatcher and CHURCHILL, I DO MY FRIEND.--TYR

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I see your point, and I've got sympathy with it. Trouble is ... we've had our Left wing create for us, over decades, a political correctness regime which gives protection to religious minorities. There's no hope at all of kicking any Muslims out, short of individual ones provably committing crimes, being radicalised, being established as terrorists (and even then, we'd probably keep them here, and incarcerate them).

Go in for deportations on the basis of adherence to a religion ... well, it'd never happen, and would probably be considered a racist act to ever try (since Muslims have successfully managed to equate their religion with racial identity, even though that's a total nonsense).

No -- thanks to Leftie 'terraforming' of the way we are required to think, we can't even speak out publicly against a religion without incurring potential police interest !

I don't agree that Mrs May is 'freaking out' ... not at all. In fact, her response is long overdue from any of our leading politicians. We only grumbled when Markov was poisoned with a poison-tipped umbrella. We did barely any more than that when Litvinenko was poisoned with Polonium, a radioactive poison which went on to contaminate locations Litvinenko visited afterwards !!

Litvinenko, I understand, died an agonising death. Nobody was in any doubt that Russia was to blame.

This time ... it's even clearer-cut ... we have samples of a chemical toxin that was ONLY EVER PRODUCED IN RUSSIA, AND NEVER RECORDED AS BEING HELD IN ANY OTHER TERRITORY OR COUNTRY. So, Russia is the only possible source of it. Its deployment affected 21 citizens, most of whom were only involved because they happened to be nearby at the time of deployment.

The British have been far too patient ... and it's only earned us more of the same murderous behaviour from Russia. Time, then, to take a stand. Time to make it VERY clear that this cannot continue. To make it clear that no civilised country can tolerate such murderous, criminal, EVEN TERRORIST, actions within its borders, perpetrated against any of its people.

Mrs May is only doing what Russia has long since been earning for itself. I salute her for making a stand.

I might add this: Russia's claim to be anti-terrorist is shot to hell over this. You don't deploy a chemical nerve agent in a civilian area, risking the lives of anyone nearby, and yet NOT behave as a terrorist would do. Terrorists kill indiscriminately, and en masse. Russia, though it may have had targets in mind, nonetheless knowingly released an agent which could be expected to endanger scores of people.

I submit THAT THIS CONSTITUTES AN ACT OF TERRORISM.

Those who'd consider themselves staunch anti-terrorist figures may wish to ponder that issue. Russia's claim to be anti terrorist no longer holds water. Terrorism cannot be defended. EVER. End of story.
I have no doubt this was Putin's doing, bro. Once KGB, always KGB. He is a monster.

I was merely trying to make a comparison to which is a bigger threat to your nation, Putin bumping a couple people off, or the muslims?

If I were to ever visit the UK, I have a greater fear of rouge muslims than being the accidental victim of a Russian poisoning attack. That's my point.

I know you're also all but powerless to take any sort of action against the muslims in your nation because of crippling political correctness. I think that's deployed as brain washing by the globalists.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Drummond, I've been reading your posts on the subject, very informative. I've been aware of Russia poisoning dissidents and spies for many years now. Putin has just upped the game.

I understand Tyr's warning regarding China, but in this case I think it's beyond obvious that it's Russia.

And it is that glaringly obvious conclusion that leads me to be very suspicious of being lead directly to it..
That is unless one thinks the Russians are too stupid to cover their own tracks or else so dumb as to use a weapon that can so easily be traced back to them.
That reality, and the fact evidence so massively points to Russia as the culprit--says "set-up" to me.
That is unless one goes with Putin doing so to deliberately antagonize Britain and thumb his nose at us and world opinion, WHILE BEING BLATANTLY IGNORANT OF HOW THIS HELPS CHINA GROW STRONGER AND CLOSER TO US, AS A DIVERSION FROM ITS TERRITORIAL GRABS.
As Trump strongly opposes CHINA'S NEW MOVES, IT WOULD BE very beneficial to china to divert America into a war or else furthering the growing rift between USA and Russia.
Glad you see that my warning against CHINA HAS REAL LEGS my friend.. -Tyr

[Drummond]

And it is that glaringly obvious conclusion that leads me to be very suspicious of being lead directly to it..
That is unless one thinks the Russians are too stupid to cover their own tracks or else so dumb as to use a weapon that can so easily be traced back to them.
That reality, and the fact evidence so massively points to Russia as the culprit--says "set-up" to me.
That is unless one goes with Putin doing so to deliberately antagonize Britain and thumb his nose at us and world opinion, WHILE BEING BLATANTLY IGNORANT OF HOW THIS HELPS CHINA GROW STRONGER AND CLOSER TO US, AS A DIVERSION FROM ITS TERRITORIAL GRABS.
As Trump strongly opposes CHINA'S NEW MOVES, IT WOULD BE very beneficial to china to divert America into a war or else furthering the growing rift between USA and Russia.
Glad you see that my warning against CHINA HAS REAL LEGS my friend.. -Tyr

I'm in no doubt at all that Russia IS the culprit.

You need to consider three things:

1. Russia has a track record of this behaviour already. The Markov assassination. More tellingly, the radioactive poisoning of Litvineno, a decade ago, which left traces of contaminant in locations he visited afterwards ! No .. this latest one is just 'more of the same', albeit it with a chemical nerve toxin this time around.

2. The sheer arrogance of the Russian mind, barely perceivable to Westerners, I suggest. Putin, and other Russians of his mindset, just DON'T CARE if such actions lead back to Russia, and the Kremlin. 'Might Is Right', to them. Besides ...

3 ... given that the point was to warn Putin's opposition (this with a Presidential election imminent !!) to NEVER oppose Putin, or risk consequences to life and limb if they do ... Putin will WANT the methods of assassination to point back to Russia !

Sorry -- but your warning against China is not relevant in this instance. It just isn't.

[Drummond]

I have no doubt this was Putin's doing, bro. Once KGB, always KGB. He is a monster.

I was merely trying to make a comparison to which is a bigger threat to your nation, Putin bumping a couple people off, or the muslims?

If I were to ever visit the UK, I have a greater fear of rouge muslims than being the accidental victim of a Russian poisoning attack. That's my point.

I know you're also all but powerless to take any sort of action against the muslims in your nation because of crippling political correctness. I think that's deployed as brain washing by the globalists.

I agree. If you visited the UK, there'd be a bigger threat from 'rogue' Muslims than from Russian gangster-types.

That's because we have more Muslims here .....

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I agree. If you visited the UK, there'd be a bigger threat from 'rogue' Muslims than from Russian gangster-types.

That's because we have more Muslims here .....
And that's a shame... because I've always wanted to visit Europe. Obviously that's where my ancestors are from, but I wouldn't now. It's just shocking the things we've seen and heard about the muslim problem in countries all across Europe, Germany and Sweden have especially bad problems, and France isn't far behind. I feel sorry for you all. I think islam is a stone age, bloody cancer on the earth.

[Drummond]

And that's a shame... because I've always wanted to visit Europe. Obviously that's where my ancestors are from, but I wouldn't now. It's just shocking the things we've seen and heard about the muslim problem in countries all across Europe, Germany and Sweden have especially bad problems, and France isn't far behind. I feel sorry for you all. I think islam is a stone age, bloody cancer on the earth.

Agreed .. most definitely !

Sorry, though ... Europe as a whole has gone down the 'politically correct' route.

By all means, visit ... just don't say a word ..... !! .... :laugh::laugh::laugh::rolleyes:

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Agreed .. most definitely !

Sorry, though ... Europe as a whole has gone down the 'politically correct' route.

By all means, visit ... just don't say a word ..... !! .... :laugh::laugh::laugh::rolleyes:
Yeah us Americans in Europe are probably like a bull in a china shop... :laugh:

We're so used to being able to say and do pretty much whatever we want... SO FAR. The fascist, PC democraps here are trying to shut down free speech everywhere. I swear these people are retarded fascist trash. I love being able to come here and say pretty much what we want through the graciousness of board owner Jim and his respect for the first amendment, free speech, and the leftist that visit here CAN'T SHUT US UP. They try on twitter and facebook though, they sensor as much as they can get away with, with 'shadow banning' and such. Such nice people, they don't like your opinion so their solution to that is just SHUT YOU UP... it's FASCISM in it's purest form. Freakin' leftist filth. As a conservative if I don't like your opinion, I'll just IGNORE YOU. I don't want to shut you up. You're free to talk like the biggest idiot on the planet and I don't care. People will decide if they want to listen to you or not. But DEMOCRATS... oh no... they want you to SHUT THE FUCK UP... just like a damn NAZI.

[Gunny]

Yeah us Americans in Europe are probably like a bull in a china shop... :laugh:

We're so used to being able to say and do pretty much whatever we want... SO FAR. The fascist, PC democraps here are trying to shut down free speech everywhere. I swear these people are retarded fascist trash. I love being able to come here and say pretty much what we want through the graciousness of board owner Jim and his respect for the first amendment, free speech, and the leftist that visit here CAN'T SHUT US UP. They try on twitter and facebook though, they sensor as much as they can get away with, with 'shadow banning' and such. Such nice people, they don't like your opinion so their solution to that is just SHUT YOU UP... it's FASCISM in it's purest form. Freakin' leftist filth. As a conservative if I don't like your opinion, I'll just IGNORE YOU. I don't want to shut you up. You're free to talk like the biggest idiot on the planet and I don't care. People will decide if they want to listen to you or not. But DEMOCRATS... oh no... they want you to SHUT THE FUCK UP... just like a damn NAZI.

It's not safe for me to even go to another state :laugh:. I thought we lived in the US, but a couple of trips to the Northern Midwest and NM cured me of THAT notion. Bunch of unfriendly f*cks for one thing. Everybody says hello around here. Yankees act like you're after something just saying it. Weird-ass people :laugh:

[Drummond]

Thank you for this.

The BBC itself confirmed today that OPCW people will visit our Porton Down facility soon to collect a sample of the nerve agent, to determine what it is for themselves, and to establish its point of origin. We're told that the thoroughness of their testing will mean we may have to wait around two weeks for results to come through.

The OPCW has its own concern in this. If (as of course we expect) they DO confirm its Russian origin, then Russia will have to explain that against a background of having claimed decades ago to the OPCW that all such stocks had been destroyed. It looks as though Russia lied to the OPCW about that at the time.

However - this is all subject to confirmation.

A small development this morning ... and it's a pity that the BBC's iPlayer system doesn't allow for viewing outside the UK ... anyway, on BBC1's Andrew Marr programme, Russia's ambassador to the EU dropped a hint (introduced the idea) that 'maybe' Porton Down, in Wiltshire, UK, was ITSELF the source of the nerve agent. Marr, in his interview, of course tried to pin him down on this ... but Vladimir Chizhov, the ambassador in question, then said 'I don't know' when pressed for his definitive statement.

Our Foreign Office has wasted no time in dismissing that as, I quote, 'absolute nonsense'.

A great pity that I can't post the Chizhov interview as a video clip (if a chance to post it here, maybe from YouTube, comes along, I'll certainly do so). It comes across as a slimy performance, a mischief-making one, from Chizhov's attitude.

I can now, using YouTube, post the Chizhov interview from this morning (the Andrew Marr show, BBC1, 9am) ...

In it, he suggests Porton Down as a possible origin of the chemical agent used (though backtracks a little ..).

[He also claims that Russia never had produced the Novichok nerve agent in the first place ! See 3 mins 24 seconds into the clip ...]

Judge it for yourself, folks ... by my reckoning, it's a somewhat slimy, possibly perceivable as smug, performance, intended to whitewash Russia entirely ....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gauOFE1uzU0

Note one other point made during the clip. This ambassador flatly denies there was any possibility of any nerve agents 'escaping' out of the old Soviet Union territory at the time of its collapse. I suggest this be specifically remembered, in case Russia (upon being confirmed as the source of the agent) subsequently claims that this is what must have happened ...

[Gunny]

Sure was a lot of talking in a circle just to say "we didn't do it".

[Drummond]

Sure was a lot of talking in a circle just to say "we didn't do it".

He says more, though. He denies the existence of any chemical stocks in Russia (the OPCW understood this to be true, so the alternative is a mass deception on an international scale .. and, an illegal one !). He says none were stockpiled in any former Soviet territory. He denies that this particular agent ever existed !!!

He also - disgustingly - puts the thought out there that just maybe, the Russian nerve agent 'which never existed as one' came from Porton Down.

I won't give vent to my disgust ... I refuse to ...

[Gunny]

He says more, though. He denies the existence of any chemical stocks in Russia (the OPCW understood this to be true, so the alternative is a mass deception on an international scale .. and, an illegal one !). He says none were stockpiled in any former Soviet territory.

He also - disgustingly - puts the thought out there that just maybe, the nerve agent came from Porton Down.

I won't give vent to my disgust ... I refuse to ...So now y'all are setting up Russia by killing your own citizens? I sure hope there's more to this "theory" :laugh:

Tell us, Drummond, what does the UK gain by making look Russia look worse than Russia already looks?:laugh: