WATCH: U.K.-Russian Relations At Stake In Probe Of Former Russian Spy Poisoning [Archive] - Debate Policy

Drummond

03-13-2018, 10:04 PM

Looks like it's heating up. Trump is on board. The EU is lukewarm, as usual. France and Germany are on board too, For now :rolleyes:

The UK demand for Russia to credibly explain itself has come and gone. Russia has simply ignored it. The Russian line is that we must supply a sample to them of the nerve agent used in the Salisbury assassination attempt first ....

... this stance running simultaneously with one emanating out of the Kremlin's 'Russia Today' TV channel, which says that the agent could've been manufactured outside Russia entirely .....

The UK has nothing to gain by supplying any sample. It's surely impossible to envisage Russia getting their hands on that sample, then suddenly admitting that they WERE responsible for its deployment !! The Kremlin has already denied any responsibility. There's no hope of their having an attack of conscience and reversing that stance.

This is why Russia must be taught to stop acting like this. This will best be done by a concerted, preferably international, effort to teach the Kremlin a better sense of non-criminal conduct on the international stage.

Gunny

03-14-2018, 02:19 PM

Drummond

03-14-2018, 07:04 PM

23 diplomats expelled, and a meeting with Lavrov cancelled. They're freezing Russian state assets (not sure what that entails).

Moscow calls UK's response a theatrical demonstration and threatens reprisal. I think I read the UK relies on Russia for roughly 1% of it's trade. That ought to hurt :laugh:

Note not only that Russia has no interest in cooperation, but in the process, manages derision in the responses its leadership DOES give.

It's that arrogance which fuels this poison. Both in the sense of thinking they can poison people of their choosing without fear of consequence, and the very poison of the disgusting psychology at work.

Yes, we're freezing assets, chucking diplomats out. Russia may consider these small and perhaps lame reprisals, but nonetheless, they know we're hitting back in unusually harsh terms (.. unusual for us, that is).

What will count is the scope of support we get internationally. If faced from condemnation from all sides, possibly - just possibly - they'll understand that more than 'Might Is Right' is at work, and actually counts for something.

It really depends, I suppose, on how keen they are to become a pariah State.

What do YOU think, Balu .. ? How keen are you to see Russia reviled, internationally ? Made into a power which values terrorist-type executions more than it does its capacity for a predisposition towards decency and reputability ?

High time for Russia to come clean. I won't be holding my breath on that one. But ... well, I'd like to be surprised.

Drummond

03-15-2018, 11:44 AM

I've been watching the RT, ahem, 'news' channel (that's the one that's Kremlin funded).

Their announcer came up with an interesting detail - I've only heard it from RT, so far - she said that the UK plans to provide a sample of the nerve agent used to the 'Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons'.

If true (remember who the source of this report is !) ... then, it only goes to show that the UK is standing on firm ground in its accusations against Russia. Such an international organisation will, presumably, do a proper job in adjudicating (if it's even necessary ?) exactly the extent of culpability involved.

I trust that OPCW will find in our favour. Given that they do ... what will Russia do ? Still plead so-called 'innocence', or will they go that one arrogant step further and just ignore the OPCW ?

Depends on just how much longer Russia can cling on to the morally bankrupt 'Might is Right' position they seem so proud of ...

Papokarlo

03-15-2018, 11:54 AM

)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Stllqp3xXMs

Drummond

03-15-2018, 12:13 PM

)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Stllqp3xXMs

I become ever-more astonished at Russian arrogance.

FACT --- when the chemical nerve agent was used on British soil, this itself was a threat to our country !!! Not just the intended Russian victims of this utterly DISGUSTING assassination attempt were affected by it, but in total, TWENTY ONE people were -- these including a British policeman, acting out of duty, for the betterment of our citizens.

Advice was recently released to say that anyone who'd been in the vicinity of the poisoning incident would be wise to wash clothing, for their own safety, in case traces of the agent lingered on that clothing, threatening longer-term harm to the owners.

So when any representative of Russia sounds off, it should be remembered that WE, IN THE UK, ARE VICTIMS OF AN UNLAWFUL USE OF A MILITARY GRADE, PRODUCED IN RUSSIA, CHEMICAL WEAPON.

WE did not initiate this chain of events. WE ARE THE VICTIMS OF IT.

I want the Russian side to admit culpability. I want an abject apology to be given. I want a promise that such disgusting, terrorist-nature behaviour, will never be repeated. I want those who deployed it, to face justice. What's more, I HAVE A RIGHT TO EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THOSE EXPECTATIONS.

Forget 'Might is Right' so-called 'justification'. What Russia has done is criminal in the extreme. Those responsible should be accordingly answerable.

Papokarlo

03-15-2018, 12:28 PM

I become ever-more astonished at Russian arrogance.

FACT --- when the chemical nerve agent was used on British soil, this itself was a threat to our country !!! Not just the intended Russian victims of this utterly DISGUSTING assassination attempt were affected by it, but in total, TWENTY ONE people were -- these including a British policeman, acting out of duty, for the betterment of our citizens.

Advice was recently released to say that anyone who'd been in the vicinity of the poisoning incident would be wise to wash clothing, for their own safety, in case traces of the agent lingered on that clothing, threatening longer-term harm to the owners.

So when any representative of Russia sounds off, it should be remembered that WE, IN THE UK, ARE VICTIMS OF AN UNLAWFUL USE OF A MILITARY GRADE, PRODUCED IN RUSSIA, CHEMICAL WEAPON.

WE did not initiate this chain of events. WE ARE THE VICTIMS OF IT.

I want the Russian side to admit culpability. I want an abject apology to be given. I want a promise that such disgusting, terrorist-nature behaviour, will never be repeated. I want those who deployed it, to face justice. What's more, I HAVE A RIGHT TO EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THOSE EXPECTATIONS.

Forget 'Might is Right' so-called 'justification'. What Russia has done is criminal in the extreme. Those responsible should be accordingly answerable.
Britain does not provide evidence. no evidence is provided, only the headlines. you didn't watch that video. you draw conventions from the inscription on this video. your management makes public statements from the headlines.

jimnyc

03-15-2018, 12:33 PM

Britain does not provide evidence. no evidence is provided, only the headlines. you didn't watch that video. you draw conventions from the inscription on this video. your management makes public statements from the headlines.

Oh please, they could supply videos of the russian scum, and just like American liberals, the commies will laugh, deny, ignore and act retarded. Or an "act" may be too much.

Papokarlo

03-15-2018, 01:13 PM

Oh please, they could supply videos of the russian scum, and just like American liberals, the commies will laugh, deny, ignore and act retarded. Or an "act" may be too much.
we respect all your presidents no matter what they are. you so not know how

jimnyc

03-15-2018, 01:16 PM

we respect all your presidents no matter what they are. you so not know how

I fully respect lawfully elected leaders, and those leaders then ruling their countries 100% legally and in the best interest of their citizens. That didn't exist under Obama - and SURE AS HELL doesn't exist under KBG commie Putin!!

Papokarlo

03-15-2018, 01:22 PM

i fully respect lawfully elected leaders, and those leaders then ruling their countries 100% legally and in the best interest of their citizens. That didn't exist under obama - and sure as hell doesn't exist under kbg commie putin!!
kgb(КГБ)
))

jimnyc

03-15-2018, 01:36 PM

kgb(КГБ)
))

Admittedly, I'm not very knowledgeable about the criminal leftover underworld of commieland, and leaders and others that still use death as a way of winning elections, and achieving other goals.

Drummond

03-15-2018, 01:39 PM

we respect all your presidents no matter what they are. you so not know how

Very good. That's encouraging.

In that case, you can respect President Trump's staunch support of the British Government's position regarding Russia's criminal act of murder and deployment of a chemical weapon, on British soil !!

Drummond

03-15-2018, 01:46 PM

Britain does not provide evidence. no evidence is provided, only the headlines. you didn't watch that video. you draw conventions from the inscription on this video. your management makes public statements from the headlines.

I've already posted what your own RT Today station has reported. According to them, Britain is sending a sample of the chemical agent to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons.

Russia Today has claimed it ... so, it must be true ... yes ?

As for your video, I did watch ... a small portion of it. The first couple of minutes. That was more than enough for me. Your spokesperson is continuing with a line intended to defend Russia's criminality -- regardless of exactly how it's dressed up.

And that, to me, is unacceptable.

Papokarlo

03-15-2018, 02:00 PM

I've already posted what your own RT Today station has reported. According to them, Britain is sending a sample of the chemical agent to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons.

Russia Today has claimed it ... so, it must be true ... yes ?

As for your video, I did watch ... a small portion of it. The first couple of minutes. That was more than enough for me. Your spokesperson is continuing with a line intended to defend Russia's criminality -- regardless of exactly how it's dressed up.

And that, to me, is unacceptable.
I haven't heard these statements from Britain.
we will follow the news

Polite Russian

03-15-2018, 03:14 PM

Papokarlo

03-15-2018, 03:22 PM

And as far, as I know, Britain didn't show any evidence? Correct me, if I'm wrong.
Britain has not shown any evidence, as always. This is repeated from time to time, the same situation. Is to blame Russia but evidence there is no))

jimnyc

03-15-2018, 04:38 PM

Russians sure are some funny bastards!! Likely vodka involved... :laugh:

Papokarlo

03-15-2018, 04:47 PM

Russians sure are some funny bastards!! Likely vodka involved... :laugh:
you again insult. I forgive you anyway.

Papokarlo

03-15-2018, 04:51 PM

I've already posted what your own RT Today station has reported. According to them, Britain is sending a sample of the chemical agent to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons.

Russia Today has claimed it ... so, it must be true ... yes ?

As for your video, I did watch ... a small portion of it. The first couple of minutes. That was more than enough for me. Your spokesperson is continuing with a line intended to defend Russia's criminality -- regardless of exactly how it's dressed up.

And that, to me, is unacceptable.
give me a link to that information. I didn't hear anything like that. very similar to the fake news Trump is talking about.
if you don't give me a link to an official source, then I'll be considered a liar.

jimnyc

03-15-2018, 04:53 PM

you again insult. I forgive you anyway.

Thanks for forgiving me, man, you rock and roll!!

You seriously need some thicker skin if Vodka references are so insulting to you. I drank a lot of "fireball" the other night and landed in a snow mountain of pee!! I'm not insulted, just humiliated. :)

Besides, vodka is better than poisoning. :)

Gunny

03-15-2018, 07:16 PM

we respect all your presidents no matter what they are. you so not know howReally? I heard differently. From a Russian.

Drummond

03-15-2018, 07:33 PM

I haven't heard these statements from Britain.
we will follow the news

... Then this may enlighten you, Papokarlo --

Here's what I think galvanised our British Government to decide to act through the OPCW ... this, from a Russian delegate ...

https://off-guardian.org/2018/03/14/russias-statement-to-the-opcw-in-response-to-allegation-of-complicity-in-alleged-skripal-poisoning/

Mr Chairperson,

In connection with the vicious attacks launched by British officials in London, as well as the statement by the head of the British delegation to the OPCW with regard to Russia concerning the suspicious story of two persons poisoned with a toxic agent in Salisbury, we would like to state the following.

The British authorities’ unfounded accusations of Russia’s alleged involvement in using poisonous agents on their territory are absolutely unacceptable. Our British colleagues should recall that Russia and the United Kingdom are members of the OPCW which is one of the most successful and effective disarmament and non-proliferation mechanisms. We call upon them to abandon the language of ultimatums and threats and return to the legal framework of the chemical convention, which makes it possible to resolve this kind of situation.

If London does have serious reasons to suspect Russia of violating the CWC – and the statement read by distinguished Ambassador Peter Wilson indicates directly that this is so – we suggest that Britain immediately avail itself of the procedures provided for by paragraph 2 of Article 9 of the CWC ....

Considering that WE, in the UK, are the victims here (!!!) .. I find the Russian's language arrogant in the extreme. You must feel 'proud' of your man's use of language, this to a country the victim of a chemical attack !!

... Still ... that point notwithstanding; this is where, according to this separate statement, we now stand:

https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/uk-to-send-sample-to-opcw-after-nerve-agent-attack-on-former-spy/

The UK’s Foreign Minister Boris Johnson has said London would submit a sample of the Novichok nerve agent used in former Russian spy’s poisoning to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), a UN body.

Speaking to the BBC news on Thursday, Johnson said the rare Soviet-made chemical weapon used against Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in the British town of Salisbury was specifically chosen to send a message to political dissenters challenging Russia’s President Vladimir Putin.

“There is a reason for choosing Novichok. In its blatant Russian-ness, the nerve agent sends a signal to all who may be thinking of dissent in the intensifying repression of Putin’s Russia,” he said….

You'll note from this how well we understand the methodologies your Russian leaders employ. Just days, too, before the Russian election ?

Drummond

03-15-2018, 07:43 PM

give me a link to that information. I didn't hear anything like that. very similar to the fake news Trump is talking about.
if you don't give me a link to an official source, then I'll be considered a liar.

I already posted one before seeing your latest post above, as it happened. It should serve to adequately answer you.

What do you mean, you'll be considered a liar ?? I thought, er'm, all Russians told the truth ? ..... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Let me make this point, though. WE, in the UK, have been subjected to an assassination attempt on our soil (and it's not as though this is the only one we've ever suffered ... !) that involved the use of a weapon so toxic that it was highly capable of harming nearby civilians.

Tell me. If the Russian side is so innocent, so NON-hostile to us ... why is it that absolutely nobody on your side of the fence has shown us any degree of sympathy ?

Don't misunderstand me -- I'm not asking for any ! But I do find it 'curious' that, if Russia is 'innocent', how it is that they display such massive arrogance that to express sympathy never enters their heads. To me, this betrays the truth ... Russia IS fundamentally hostile to us.

High_Plains_Drifter

03-15-2018, 07:49 PM

Drummond

03-15-2018, 07:52 PM

You know what I hate in this situation?

The. Damn. Language.

I mean our and Brit politicians speak not like diplomats, but like some rude peasants. Both sides.
Where is the Old Europe diplomacy? Everybody forgot everything and act like stupid kids.

I don't know, what to believe, actually. I mean, I think that we coud do it. But at the same time, I don't think, that our authorities can be so stupid. It's pretty obvious, that there will be a lot of arraignments for us.
And as far, as I know, Britain didn't show any evidence? Correct me, if I'm wrong.

We have yet to release evidence ... I think ! I'm not sure, because to now have the support of America, France and Germany, all of whom have issued a joint statement between them accepting Russia's culpability .. strongly suggests that cooperation in the release of evidence has been going on behind the scenes.

That notwithstanding, as you'll see from my other posting, we WILL submit a sample to a UN body highly capable of competently adjudicating the matter: namely, the OPCW.

'Rude peasants'. An interesting way of characterising Russian expressiveness ! When applied to us ... well, there are certain times when politeness somehow seems inappropriate. When a chemical weapon has been deployed in a civilian environment, on your own territory, perchance ??

Still -- I thank you for your post. It's very refreshing to see a Russian posting here who's willing to keep an open mind. It's appreciated.

Drummond

03-15-2018, 08:08 PM

So... the UK is now all of a sudden worried about an isolated alleged gas attack by a supposed Russian, but yet they still have their borders wide open allowing radical muslims in that they already know don't assimilate and are causing havoc in their nation with intentions of taking it over?

Hmmm...

Ridiculous, isn't it ??

I fully take your point.

Such is the power of political correctness as the UK knows it. Our Left wing has created such a rigid social climate that to so much as publicly openly express such a criticism will have the person demonised as a racist, or worse. To hell with commonsense. To hell, in fact, with opening your eyes and seeing for yourself exactly what's going on ....

It's not QUITE what you're talking about ... however, I offer this link as an example of the British State's intolerance towards citizens seen to be conducting 'hate crime' ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-43320121

The leader and deputy leader of far-right group Britain First have been found guilty of religiously aggravated harassment.

Paul Golding, 36, and Jayda Fransen, 32, were arrested over the distribution of leaflets and posting of online videos during a gang-rape trial.

Fransen was convicted of three counts of religiously aggravated harassment. Golding was found guilty of one charge.

Both were jailed at Folkestone Magistrates' Court.

Fransen was handed a 36-week sentence and Golding 18 weeks.

During their trial in January, the court heard they had targeted homes and people in Kent whom they believed were connected to a rape trial at Canterbury Crown Court where three Muslim men and a teenager were convicted of rape and jailed.

The pair, both from Penge in south-east London, were arrested in May last year.

They denied a total of seven counts of harassment.

Judge Justin Barron threw out three of the charges, while Fransen was found guilty of three and Golding of one.

He told the court the pair were "well-known", "controversial" and "generate their own publicity", but his verdict was based "solely on admissible evidence heard in court".

He said their words and actions "demonstrated hostility" towards Muslims and the Muslim faith.

"I have no doubt it was their joint intention to use the facts of the case [in Canterbury] for their own political ends.

"It was a campaign to draw attention to the race, religion and immigrant background of the defendants."

Note the emphasis the court considered appropriate in highlighting the fact of Muslims being involved, in determining not only a verdict, but in assessing the sentences arrived at.

Public criticism of persons based upon religious faith is actually perceivable as a crime here.

Gunny

03-15-2018, 08:18 PM

Ridiculous, isn't it ??

I fully take your point.

Such is the power of political correctness as the UK knows it. Our Left wing has created such a rigid social climate that to so much as publicly openly express such a criticism will have the person demonised as a racist, or worse. To hell with commonsense. To hell, in fact, with opening your eyes and seeing for yourself exactly what's going on ....

It's not QUITE what you're talking about ... however, I offer this link as an example of the British State's intolerance towards citizens seen to be conducting 'hate crime' ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-43320121

Note the emphasis the court considered appropriate in highlighting the fact of Muslims being involved, in determining not only a verdict, but in assessing the sentences arrived at.

Public criticism of persons based upon religious faith is actually perceivable as a crime here.Doesn't sound like I'd last very long before getting slapped with a "hate speech" summons :laugh:

Drummond

03-15-2018, 08:29 PM

I already posted one before seeing your latest post above, as it happened. It should serve to adequately answer you.

What do you mean, you'll be considered a liar ?? I thought, er'm, all Russians told the truth ? ..... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Let me make this point, though. WE, in the UK, have been subjected to an assassination attempt on our soil (and it's not as though this is the only one we've ever suffered ... !) that involved the use of a weapon so toxic that it was highly capable of harming nearby civilians.

Tell me. If the Russian side is so innocent, so NON-hostile to us ... why is it that absolutely nobody on your side of the fence has shown us any degree of sympathy ?

Don't misunderstand me -- I'm not asking for any ! But I do find it 'curious' that, if Russia is 'innocent', how it is that they display such massive arrogance that to express sympathy never enters their heads. To me, this betrays the truth ... Russia IS fundamentally hostile to us.

Here's a link from the BBC. It's a very full account on this whole subject. Scroll down far enough, though, and you'll see this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43377698

Russia's UN ambassador has insisted that development work on Soviet-era nerve agents stopped in 1992, and that existing stockpiles were destroyed in 2017.

In September 2017, the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) confirmed the full destruction of the 39,967 metric tons of chemical weapons possessed by Russia.

Moscow has denied any involvement in the Skripals' poisoning and demanded proof.

A former head of Russia's secret police told local media that Novichok could have been stored in any of the former Soviet states - pointing the finger at Ukraine.

A sample is to be sent to the OPCW - the independent international body set up to stop chemical warfare - for analysis.

It called the use of a chemical agent in Salisbury "extremely worrying" in a tweet, adding that "those found responsible for this must be held accountable for their actions".

Chemical weapons expert Hamish de Bretton-Gordon called for the OPCW to be allowed to visit the Russian town where he alleged the nerve agent was made.

"The only other people who could perhaps make Novichoks, if they had the blueprint to do it, would be [DSTL at] Porton Down in the UK, perhaps the US, maybe the French," he said, but added, "I have it on very good authority that Novichoks were only ever made in Shikhany in central Russia."

It's interesting.

It took several days for Russia to suggest any possibility of the Novichok agent existing anywhere else but Russia.

But, I ask: if the effort to destroy them was to have any point to it at all, how can it be that stocks were kept back on any other territory ?

I have but one conclusion to draw ... that Russia deliberately deceived the OPCW at the time of those 'total stock destructions'. In truth, not all were destroyed. In truth, the intention was to keep aside spare stocks.

If true, this shows how dangerously maverick the Russian State really is.

Doesn't it ?

Drummond

03-15-2018, 08:36 PM

Doesn't sound like I'd last very long before getting slapped with a "hate speech" summons :laugh:

... and arrested .. and jailed ?

Such is the stranglehold Socialist social engineering has managed to achieve in our society, that this can happen.

It's an illustration of just how very dangerous it is to let Left winger-types govern you, or wield any degree of decisive power.

Gunny

03-15-2018, 09:13 PM

We have yet to release evidence ... I think ! I'm not sure, because to now have the support of America, France and Germany, all of whom have issued a joint statement between them accepting Russia's culpability .. strongly suggests that cooperation in the release of evidence has been going on behind the scenes.

That notwithstanding, as you'll see from my other posting, we WILL submit a sample to a UN body highly capable of competently adjudicating the matter: namely, the OPCW.

'Rude peasants'. An interesting way of characterising Russian expressiveness ! When applied to us ... well, there are certain times when politeness somehow seems inappropriate. When a chemical weapon has been deployed in a civilian environment, on your own territory, perchance ??

Still -- I thank you for your post. It's very refreshing to see a Russian posting here who's willing to keep an open mind. It's appreciated.My take on it is this: as a combat troop, I find the use of poison and other such chicanery cowardly. When I show up, it's to fight the enemy, not drop dead from drinking his tea. I feel the same about these knuckleheads using biological and chemical weapons even in combat. If you can't fight, just stay home. All you prove by using poison to me is you can't hang.

I find this ex-spy being poisoned surreal, as I have posted before. I agree with polite russian's sentiment that he can't believe anyone was dumb enough to do it. Sounds like a bad spy novel. In this day and age why anyone would think they could get away with something so obvious and grade-school simple beats me.

And let's take it a step further. What does anyone have to gain from it? Revenge? An emotion-based reaction that usually backfires and requires pointless and needless risk. I don't really think the UK stands to gain anything by making a false accusation. No one's going to admit to it. So there it will stand until the next thing comes along.

High_Plains_Drifter

03-15-2018, 09:28 PM

Ridiculous, isn't it ??

I fully take your point.

Such is the power of political correctness as the UK knows it. Our Left wing has created such a rigid social climate that to so much as publicly openly express such a criticism will have the person demonised as a racist, or worse. To hell with commonsense. To hell, in fact, with opening your eyes and seeing for yourself exactly what's going on ....

It's not QUITE what you're talking about ... however, I offer this link as an example of the British State's intolerance towards citizens seen to be conducting 'hate crime' ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-43320121

Note the emphasis the court considered appropriate in highlighting the fact of Muslims being involved, in determining not only a verdict, but in assessing the sentences arrived at.

Public criticism of persons based upon religious faith is actually perceivable as a crime here.
I didn't know islam was a "race."

And it's pretty strange that people would find talk about radicals in their nation that don't assimilate and are causing sheer terror raping and killing as hate speech. I call that insane.

Drummond

03-15-2018, 09:30 PM

My take on it is this: as a combat troop, I find the use of poison and other such chicanery cowardly. When I show up, it's to fight the enemy, not drop dead from drinking his tea. I feel the same about these knuckleheads using biological and chemical weapons even in combat. If you can't fight, just stay home. All you prove by using poison to me is you can't hang.

I find this ex-spy being poisoned surreal, as I have posted before. I agree with polite russian's sentiment that he can't believe anyone was dumb enough to do it. Sounds like a bad spy novel. In this day and age why anyone would think they could get away with something so obvious and grade-school simple beats me.

And let's take it a step further. What does anyone have to gain from it? Revenge? An emotion-based reaction that usually backfires and requires pointless and needless risk. I don't really think the UK stands to gain anything by making a false accusation. No one's going to admit to it. So there it will stand until the next thing comes along.

Taken in dispassionate terms, sifting the facts from a logical perspective, you'd have to conclude that a Russian action to chemically poison persons or an environment was thoroughly stupid. It SHOULDN'T make sense to think that they were responsible.

Unfortunately ... a mindset that gets fired up to commit political 'adventurism' of an empire building nature, such as the annexation of Crimea was, is, a mindset that is far from logical, sensible, decent, reasonable. We in the West always underrate the sheer arrogance that fuels Russian thinking. Putin wants power. He'll seize it. Why ? Because he wants it. Just that. Is he playing a dangerous game ? He doesn't much care if he is. He wants power, so he'll ruthlessly do what it takes to acquire what he wants.

Given the truth of all that, we can conclude two things:

1. Putin will always do what the hell he wants. It doesn't have to be reasonable - it just has to be wanted. That's ALL.

2. We always, in the West, underestimate Russian arrogance. Massively so. I genuinely believe we cannot conceive of just how it dominates Russian thinking.

I think Putin's a maniac. He's a permanent danger to the world at large.

aboutime

03-15-2018, 09:56 PM

I happily predict that RUSSIA is about to do a repeat performance of the REAGAN program that DESTROYED the Former Soviet Union.
Putin is messing with the WRONG GUY in Trump. Trump is RE-Building our Military, and PUTIN won't be able to keep up...stealing food, and services from the people....like Gorbechev did before the BERLIN WALL came down, and the Economy in USSR failed.

Putin needs to get a refresher, and see that there is NO Clinton, Bush, or Obama to fool anymore by threatening us. Trump isn't worried about OFFENDING Putin like the previous presidents did.http://stjent.pinnaclecart.com/images/products/preview/80717.jpghttps://d1ikx7rs2s8wko.cloudfront.net/store-top-bumper-stickers-5515e5a174804/uploaded/thumbnails/bumpersticker-dont-mess-with-us-u-s_55c923e86e038_746xauto-jpg-keep-ratio.jpeg?1439245288
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/EnL2vSIbYDc/maxresdefault.jpg

Gunny

03-15-2018, 10:08 PM

Taken in dispassionate terms, sifting the facts from a logical perspective, you'd have to conclude that a Russian action to chemically poison persons or an environment was thoroughly stupid. It SHOULDN'T make sense to think that they were responsible.

Unfortunately ... a mindset that gets fired up to commit political 'adventurism' of an empire building nature, such as the annexation of Crimea was, is, a mindset that is far from logical, sensible, decent, reasonable. We in the West always underrate the sheer arrogance that fuels Russian thinking. Putin wants power. He'll seize it. Why ? Because he wants it. Just that. Is he playing a dangerous game ? He doesn't much care if he is. He wants power, so he'll ruthlessly do what it takes to acquire what he wants.

Given the truth of all that, we can conclude two things:

1. Putin will always do what the hell he wants. It doesn't have to be reasonable - it just has to be wanted. That's ALL.

2. We always, in the West, underestimate Russian arrogance. Massively so. I genuinely believe we cannot conceive of just how it dominates Russian thinking.

I think Putin's a maniac. He's a permanent danger to the world at large.I think he's a danger to the world if he actually keeps pushing and crosses swords with Trump. I think because of the Cuban Missile Crisis and the end of the Cold War, Putin doesn't dare back down and like him or not, agree with it or not, Trump just won't. That's why I think Trump has officially ignored for the most part Putin's baiting.

What Putin thinks he stands to gain beats the Hell out of me. Trump's not going to back down. He may as well not have that in his list of possible outcomes. Putin is in the same position as the US, and neither leader seems willing to accept the simple fact that neither country can take on the entire world and win. I'm not sure who all Putin has pissed off, but i don't think Trump has left out anyone :laugh:

While I chuckle about it, in real terms it's a dangerous game and it isn't going to take much but the wrong move even by accident to set off a powderkeg. In which case on the Muslims will win. They'll get to die for Allah.

Papokarlo

03-16-2018, 02:51 AM

Really? I heard differently. From a Russian.

most of the population Russia would like Trump to be the President
we have many people celebrated his victory
It's the truth

Papokarlo

03-16-2018, 03:06 AM

... Then this may enlighten you, Papokarlo --

Here's what I think galvanised our British Government to decide to act through the OPCW ... this, from a Russian delegate ...

https://off-guardian.org/2018/03/14/russias-statement-to-the-opcw-in-response-to-allegation-of-complicity-in-alleged-skripal-poisoning/

Considering that WE, in the UK, are the victims here (!!!) .. I find the Russian's language arrogant in the extreme. You must feel 'proud' of your man's use of language, this to a country the victim of a chemical attack !!

... Still ... that point notwithstanding; this is where, according to this separate statement, we now stand:

https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/uk-to-send-sample-to-opcw-after-nerve-agent-attack-on-former-spy/

You'll note from this how well we understand the methodologies your Russian leaders employ. Just days, too, before the Russian election ?
if there is no exit then Russia sends a letter to the OPCW, we have been asking for evidence from you for two weeks, we have been asking for public discussion of this case. But Britain's got everything to hide. In this case, we ask the third-party organization, the OPCW decided our dispute. But the British never sent samples of gas "Novichok" in this organization. I will once again give this video in which we have been calling on Britain for two weeks to resolve our dispute through third-party organizations, in an open form, in the presence of the press.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Stllqp3xXMs

Papokarlo

03-16-2018, 03:10 AM

Gunny

03-16-2018, 04:43 AM

I'm still waiting for a link to the RT channel...I'm betting he's going to get up in the middle of the night just for you :rolleyes:. This is a message board, not real time. Wait for your answer. I'm pretty sure what you are "waiting for" has already been presented. Demanding a response now to something you KNOW is, by design, going to be dragged out for months if not years is a typical tactic for those who have no real defense for their stance.

I agree with drummond that most do not understand your arrogance. But I can smell it. It's a weakness and a weapon to easily use against you. For one so sure no one can figure you out you sure run a simple game.

Papokarlo

03-16-2018, 05:44 AM

I'm betting he's going to get up in the middle of the night just for you :rolleyes:. This is a message board, not real time. Wait for your answer. I'm pretty sure what you are "waiting for" has already been presented. Demanding a response now to something you KNOW is, by design, going to be dragged out for months if not years is a typical tactic for those who have no real defense for their stance.

I agree with drummond that most do not understand your arrogance. But I can smell it. It's a weakness and a weapon to easily use against you. For one so sure no one can figure you out you sure run a simple game.

it turns out that you make decisions without evidence and accuse Russia. it would be appropriate if it were third world countries where sentences are handed down without trial. but you consider yourself the most civilized country, the center of the world, an exceptional nation. I think Nations like you should act under international law. and draw conclusions after the investigation. I know it will take five years and how you always say that you were wrong, so it was with Iraq(remember Colin Powell showed a test tube with a chemical substance) you have it in Iraq is not found. Bombed the whole country. Then he said that it was a mistake. Not too many mistakes are you doing?

Papokarlo

03-16-2018, 05:57 AM

Gunny

03-16-2018, 06:17 AM

under international law, Britain must cooperate in this situation. But Britain refuses to do so. We have been insisting for two weeks on joint cooperation and open cooperation. We are ready but Britain is not.Incorrect. Great Britain is under no obligation to acquiesce to Russia's demand. Only a fool would let the person they are accusing of perpetrating a crime be the arbiter.

Besides being a bunch of wimps, the UN is about as impartial an arbiter as anyone is going to get. Y'all need to stop thumping your chests and making demands. The rest of the world doesn't answer to you.

Papokarlo

03-16-2018, 06:25 AM

Incorrect. Great Britain is under no obligation to acquiesce to Russia's demand. Only a fool would let the person they are accusing of perpetrating a crime be the arbiter.

Besides being a bunch of wimps, the UN is about as impartial an arbiter as anyone is going to get. Y'all need to stop thumping your chests and making demands. The rest of the world doesn't answer to you.

It is in Britain's interest to conduct a joint investigation so as not to be unfounded. if Britain does not agree, this method of Britain discredits itself

Gunny

03-16-2018, 06:42 AM

It is in Britain's interest to conduct a joint investigation so as not to be unfounded. if Britain does not agree, this method of Britain discredits itselfIt is in the interest of BOTH parties that the investigation be conducted by an impartial arbiter. No one's going to admit they're wrong anyway so I don't see what you're so worked up about.

Apparently Britain is positive enough to dish out some pretty harsh (for them) sanctions. Again, I doubt they would do so without something. Just not how they operate.

The fact is, a miracle didn't just poison two people with military grade chemicals. There are two people in the hospital and a couple dozen more affected by it. Hard to disprove bodies.

Papokarlo

03-16-2018, 07:10 AM

It is in the interest of BOTH parties that the investigation be conducted by an impartial arbiter. No one's going to admit they're wrong anyway so I don't see what you're so worked up about.

I have to ask you a question! how did you determine that it was Russia and Putin? because that's what you think?

Drummond

03-16-2018, 12:36 PM

I have to ask you a question! how did you determine that it was Russia and Putin? because that's what you think?

I can answer that one.

Because Russia has a track record of 'activity' in the UK such as this, stretching back a considerable time.

Because of the identity of the agent used ... ONLY ever produced in Russia.

Because said agent has never been known to be produced elsewhere, or stored anywhere else but Russia.

Because it makes political sense for the likes of Putin to send Russians a warning at election time: 'don't defy me' !

Is that enough for you ? Because I call that damning evidence !!!

Drummond

03-16-2018, 12:40 PM

It is in Britain's interest to conduct a joint investigation so as not to be unfounded. if Britain does not agree, this method of Britain discredits itself

I've never heard of a criminal who's committed a crime, being expected to be a part-participant in investigating the crime !!

Therefore, a joint investigation with Russia is a total absurdity. It's incredibly arrogant of you to think it could ever be appropriate (.. and maybe just a little desperate ??).

HOWEVER ... we've said we will send a sample to the UN's authority in such matters. They will adjudicate this.

Drummond

03-16-2018, 12:45 PM

Balu

03-16-2018, 01:48 PM

I found one interesting post in Russian forums which I would like to translate for you to sober your brains.

If you seriously believe in what they are fed to the British with, they have already spoken to Kasus Belly, accusing Russia of using chemical combat agents in the UK. And in fact they, along with all their NATO allies, crapped instead of declaring war on Russia. So they just needed to shut up. Russia is not Yugoslavia, Iraq or Libya with Syria. Here they can get in the teeth in a way, that only feathers will fly of them. The British lion was transformed into a small squealing kitten.

Besides, Putin warned that IF any missile will is launched to Damascus it will be shot down with further destruction of ANY carrier it is launched from. And and as it was expected Americans had to swallow and shud up.
P.S.
This is just a translation, which I think, is very indicative.

jimnyc

03-16-2018, 02:42 PM

translate for you to sober your brains.

You can save your translations, Vodka commie boy.

Gunny

03-16-2018, 02:56 PM

I have to ask you a question! how did you determine that it was Russia and Putin? because that's what you think?I did not determine anything. Great Britain did. I looked at the facts as presented. I have yet to point a finger specifically at Putin, but if he has rogue agents running around the world poisoning people without his knowledge, i'd say he should be pretty interested in knowing who.

Which countries have access to 1970s Soviet chemical weapons? Either it's Russia, or Russia sold them. Perhaps Russia would like to point out who they sold them to? Or are you going to say Russia doesn't have control of its chemical weapons?

The facts speak for themselves. Again, 2 in the hospital and so others affected by a Soviet era neurotoxin. The finger should be pointed at Kenya maybe?

You know why it's pointed at you.

Gunny

03-16-2018, 03:14 PM

it turns out that you make decisions without evidence and accuse Russia. it would be appropriate if it were third world countries where sentences are handed down without trial. but you consider yourself the most civilized country, the center of the world, an exceptional nation. I think Nations like you should act under international law. and draw conclusions after the investigation. I know it will take five years and how you always say that you were wrong, so it was with Iraq(remember Colin Powell showed a test tube with a chemical substance) you have it in Iraq is not found. Bombed the whole country. Then he said that it was a mistake. Not too many mistakes are you doing?Did you think about this before you posted it? You looking in the mirror while posting that "center of the world" crap?

The US is in complete compliance with the law. The US is acting in support of an ally with which we have a mutual defense treaty. You should understand THAT since your President has threatened just about everyone in Syria or the West where Crimea is concerned with what all Russia's going to do should anyone attack in either place.

Try applying the same here. An attack on a NATO ally with a military grade chemical agent is an attack on the US. The US and other NATO members and the EU responded. Maybe your President should have met the UK's deadline?

Be that as it may, you need to get your aim straight. I, personally, am not making the accusation. I personally am aware of the situation based on this message board and several news sources. If "I" was responding to such a cowardly attack and had evidence in my hand of who did it, we wouldn't be "talking". I'm not a diplomat.

As I said, and before you blow a head gasket, let the investigation run its course. And I'm not sure what difference you think there is between "International Law" and the "UN", but the situation is being handled appropriately and legally.

Gunny

03-16-2018, 03:16 PM

under international law, Britain must cooperate in this situation. But Britain refuses to do so. We have been insisting for two weeks on joint cooperation and open cooperation. We are ready but Britain is not.

Produce the "international law". I want to see where it says Great Britain must observe the demands of the Nation they are accusing. What court? Feel free to link us to the info.

The UK going to the UN is completely appropriate.

Drummond

03-16-2018, 06:15 PM

I found one interesting post in Russian forums which I would like to translate for you to sober your brains.

Besides, Putin warned that IF any missile will is launched to Damascus it will be shot down with further destruction of ANY carrier it is launched from. And and as it was expected Americans had to swallow and shud up.
P.S.
This is just a translation, which I think, is very indicative.

Yes, well. I can offer my own translation.

'MIGHT IS RIGHT'.

What you've posted is easily summed up in those terms.

Hitler thought like that. Tell me, was Hitler right in all he did ?? Did he not deserve the opposition he received, leading to his defeat ?

If what you've posted sums up Putin's own thinking - if it does - tell me, how is Putin any better than Hitler ??

aboutime

03-16-2018, 08:33 PM

You guys are so brainwashed by the PUTIN effect, none of you have any idea how your endless false propaganda makes all of you look so, completely STUPID, and UN-EDUCATED.

Of course, you must side with, and always believe Putin's DENIALS. If you do anything else, there's probably a KGB Bullet with your names on it...coming SPECIAL DELIVERY.

https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/prn-715391.jpg
https://i2.wp.com/zionistreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/KGB_PUTIN.jpg?resize=420%2C435&ssl=1

Papokarlo

03-18-2018, 09:04 AM

I did not determine anything. Great Britain did. I looked at the facts as presented. I have yet to point a finger specifically at Putin, but if he has rogue agents running around the world poisoning people without his knowledge, i'd say he should be pretty interested in knowing who.

Which countries have access to 1970s Soviet chemical weapons? Either it's Russia, or Russia sold them. Perhaps Russia would like to point out who they sold them to? Or are you going to say Russia doesn't have control of its chemical weapons?

The facts speak for themselves. Again, 2 in the hospital and so others affected by a Soviet era neurotoxin. The finger should be pointed at Kenya maybe?

You know why it's pointed at you.

And can Britain will tell as she realized that this gas "Novichek"? to understand this, you need to have samples, so Britain has such a sample (imprint)? following your logic then Britain is in this case, it could poison Skripal.have you seen the people who got hurt? this is again the headlines, and nothing more. IT IS NOT THE FACTS!

Papokarlo

03-18-2018, 10:53 AM

in Iraq died very many thousands of people, in Syria many thousands of killed, in Yugoslavia, too, most and other countries, but the press noises from-for one Skripal, all countries West never about life thousands of killed in these countries. Thousands of victims VS one Skripal

jimnyc

03-18-2018, 11:01 AM

Putin supports and funds terrorism. Putin is a little girl with little bite power outside of ILLEGAL activities. Russia is no longer a military power - the only fear is terrorism related support and nuclear activities. Outside of that, Russia is a 3rd world country now lead by a 3rd world dictator. While the United States of America, while dulled a bit by Obama, is still a military power to the world, and still helping those in need around the world.

When so many emergencies have happened around the world, so many natural disasters - and remember those times when Russia has lead the way and dropped billions and billions to help so many others in so many places around the world? Me neither, can't remember that! But I sure as hell know the PERSONAL money I have helped with, along with ENDLESS good American folks looking to help strangers, the less fortunate around the world. Now I suppose if folks needed some vodka....

Night and day, that's the comparison between Russia and the US of A anymore. And boy am I ever glad and thankful that I was born into the greatest country on earth!! :)

Papokarlo

03-18-2018, 11:12 AM

Drummond

03-18-2018, 11:46 AM

once again you make conclusions without evidence or facts)
I'm telling you about one thing, and you tell me about the fact that Putin is a dictator) you are very funny. I'm saying, " thousands of victims versus one violinist."

Well .... I appreciate your reply. The humour of it is second to none.

We are far better informed in the West than you give us credit for.

For example: Putin WILL win the election. I absolutely guarantee it. In a fair election, absolute certainty in elections wouldn't happen.

In Russia, it does.

QED.

Papokarlo

03-18-2018, 11:54 AM

we are located in BRICS countries which is about 60% of the world's population. It would be foolish to say that we are a failed state. As long as you think that we are an outcast, our country is developing. your surprise will be even more after you learn the news about Russia.

Papokarlo

03-18-2018, 11:55 AM

Well .... I appreciate your reply. The humour of it is second to none.

We are far better informed in the West than you give us credit for.

For example: Putin WILL win the election. I absolutely guarantee it. In a fair election, absolute certainty in elections wouldn't happen.

In Russia, it does.

QED.

In Russia there are also American observers. no election in the world had so many observers from other countries.

jimnyc

03-18-2018, 12:15 PM

once again you make conclusions without evidence or facts)
I'm telling you about one thing, and you tell me about the fact that Putin is a dictator) you are very funny. I'm saying, " thousands of victims versus one violinist."

Of course you'll deny, as many of your brethren do - but the FACT that Putin and Russia support terrorism is a FACT. Putin and others making folks "dead" and or disappear when it's election time, or debating time or something on the line time - folks die and disappear, with many poisons and other provable methods - FACT. The amount of money that is spent by citizen donations is traceable - FACT. The money that is spent via various country governments, in helping others and giving handouts, is also traceable and FACT.

So how about instead if instantly denying things - write a little and PROVE me wrong. I don't need to prove Americas's generosity, it's ALWAYS out there for the world to see and enjoy. I don't need to prove that political opponents here in America don't be dying off in mysterious deaths when a dictator needs his power. I don't need to prove to anyone that the numbers in the elections aren't legit. Having Trump win the election but lose the popular vote would have been much easier had we been able to make a few folks disappear, and fudge the numbers to where he destroyed the competition.

But you are correct in one thing at least - I AM a funny bastard!! :beer: :salute:

jimnyc

03-18-2018, 12:17 PM

In Russia there are also American observers. no election in the world had so many observers from other countries.

Have these observers prevented deaths and major injuries? Nope. Have they prevented Putin from cheating? Nope. Have they prevented Putin from supporting terrorism? Not in the slightest.

If Putin can lie and cheat - then the observer's don't mean jack shit. A few of you Russians must be the only folks left in the world that don't see the shit that rules the politics and running of Russia. But whatever, I truly don't care if you disagree, I'm just extremely thankful that I live where I do - I consider myself blessed to not be reversed, and me living in Russia. An absolutely beautiful country, but no thank you.

Papokarlo

03-18-2018, 12:28 PM

Have these observers prevented deaths and major injuries? Nope. Have they prevented Putin from cheating? Nope. Have they prevented Putin from supporting terrorism? Not in the slightest.

If Putin can lie and cheat - then the observer's don't mean jack shit. A few of you Russians must be the only folks left in the world that don't see the shit that rules the politics and running of Russia. But whatever, I truly don't care if you disagree, I'm just extremely thankful that I live where I do - I consider myself blessed to not be reversed, and me living in Russia. An absolutely beautiful country, but no thank you.
all I hear is a bunch of unfounded allegations and headlines

I remember all the channels CNBC CNN BBC and so on, shout out loud the Trump is an agent of Putin. Well, found the facts that Trump is an agent of Putin? you will not find. as we have said-the precipitate remained. No facts will never be only the headlines of Newspapers and television channels. Deceive people

Papokarlo

03-18-2018, 01:22 PM

Tony Blair admitted that the intelligence data on Iraq were not accurate (about chemical weapons). then troops were introduced into Iraq and half of the country was destroyed. and now the same hysterical only after 15 years. Theresa may is doing the same. In 5-7 years it will say that it was a mistake. And America does the same thing. Not too many and often mistakes you make?

without investigation, without evidence, but with headlines. For us were the benchmark BBC, CNN(and other) beacon of truth. but in the past 15 years everything has changed, it even confirms Trump calling them fake news

High_Plains_Drifter

03-18-2018, 01:36 PM

I think Nations like you should act under international law.
Fuck international law. America is America because we told the rest of the world long ago we weren't going to be told what to do or how to conduct ourselves by some other nation, and so far, it's worked out pretty damn good for us.

You don't like it, go pound sand.

Papokarlo

03-18-2018, 01:41 PM

Gunny

03-18-2018, 01:52 PM

all I hear is a bunch of unfounded allegations and headlines

I remember all the channels CNBC CNN BBC and so on, shout out loud the Trump is an agent of Putin. Well, found the facts that Trump is an agent of Putin? you will not find. as we have said-the precipitate remained. No facts will never be only the headlines of Newspapers and television channels. Deceive peopleYou sound like a Democrat. I have repeatedly provided you with provable facts and at least one link that I recall. Your entire argument so far is based on "prove it".

I don't have to prove the sun comes up. It's there and everybody knows it. I've provided. facts, common sense, the law, and just about every damned thing you've demanded and STILL you have NOTHING but "all I see is unfounded allegations". Okay, Baghdad Bob Jr, that's not an M-1 Abrams rolling past you in the background while you claim American troops aren't in Baghdad too :rolleyes:

Your denial doesn't alter reality a single bit.

Papokarlo

03-18-2018, 02:16 PM

You sound like a Democrat. I have repeatedly provided you with provable facts and at least one link that I recall. Your entire argument so far is based on "prove it".

I don't have to prove the sun comes up. It's there and everybody knows it. I've provided. facts, common sense, the law, and just about every damned thing you've demanded and STILL you have NOTHING but "all I see is unfounded allegations". Okay, Baghdad Bob Jr, that's not an M-1 Abrams rolling past you in the background while you claim American troops aren't in Baghdad too :rolleyes:

Your denial doesn't alter reality a single bit.
one day someone asked , and he replied: "That's all they know." this is speculation and not evidence. A person can be full of misinformation and then he will say that's all they know))) this is funny

we also know that America did a lot of bad, but not having evidence doesn't make strong statements. we are discreet, we are wise, we are calm, and so on

Gunny

03-18-2018, 02:30 PM

one day someone asked , and he replied: "That's all they know." this is speculation and not evidence. A person can be full of misinformation and then he will say that's all they know))) this is funny

we also know that America did a lot of bad, but not having evidence doesn't make strong statements. we are discreet, we are wise, we are calm, and so onHere's the difference ... WE are sitting back and waiting for it to play out through the legal system. YOU on the other hand are just denying your ass off, making excuses, and deflecting from answering simple questions. I have not lost a minute's sleep worrying about whether or not you are right or wrong. You on the other hand act as though you're defending your basement.

Guess what? The answers will come when they come. YOUR speculation doesn't change a thing. You can speculate but demand definitive proof from message board users. Again, arguing like a Democrat. There's one standard. You don't get to hold yourself to another one or you're a hypocrite.

You really SHOULD get over yourself. 'm going to take the word of Russia over the UK when everything points to Russia and my ancestors are Scot? You really DO need to learn how to deal with people.

Papokarlo

03-18-2018, 03:22 PM

Here's the difference ... WE are sitting back and waiting for it to play out through the legal system. YOU on the other hand are just denying your ass off, making excuses, and deflecting from answering simple questions. I have not lost a minute's sleep worrying about whether or not you are right or wrong. You on the other hand act as though you're defending your basement.

Guess what? The answers will come when they come. YOUR speculation doesn't change a thing. You can speculate but demand definitive proof from message board users. Again, arguing like a Democrat. There's one standard. You don't get to hold yourself to another one or you're a hypocrite.

You really SHOULD get over yourself. 'm going to take the word of Russia over the UK when everything points to Russia and my ancestors are Scot? You really DO need to learn how to deal with people.

the people who chose Putin win. we need a policy of Putin. . we go shoulder to shoulder playing with our President

Gunny

03-18-2018, 03:53 PM

the people who chose Putin win. we need a policy of Putin. . we go shoulder to shoulder playing with our PresidentIf Putin doesn't back off the way he's pushing people, all he's going to do is facilitate your downfall.

aboutime

03-18-2018, 03:53 PM

Fuck international law. America is America because we told the rest of the world long ago we weren't going to be told what to do or how to conduct ourselves by some other nation, and so far, it's worked out pretty damn good for us.

You don't like it, go pound sand.

Pardon me, but I prefer to be more blunt. Truth is. I like to tell them to KISS MY BUTT!http://www.customonlinesigns.com/images/u/265e21b253a745c7b493fa7ca621ddf8-800.png

KMA for those who know, and wish they could say it too!https://img.discogs.com/SJHvfNKwoHLm9CM13jv0BPYxtSM=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():qualit y(40)/discogs-images/L-344683-1401231549-2552.jpeg.jpg
Then, there's EAT MY SHORTS,https://seeklogo.com/images/B/Bart_Simpson_Eat_My_Shorts-logo-D8477F4A35-seeklogo.com.png
and..."BITE ME!https://rlv.zcache.com/bite_me_postcard-rc10eb61dbeaa4785a5b54747a74b3aa6_vgbaq_8byvr_324. jpg

jimnyc

03-18-2018, 03:54 PM

the people who chose Putin win. we need a policy of Putin. . we go shoulder to shoulder playing with our President

In other words, NAIVE citizens bathe in SHIT and ENJOY IT.

Putin is shit. Put is a terrorism supporter. Putin is a murderer. You think this is just 'headlines' and hasn't been shown and discussed and proven time and time again?

Funny little commie supporter you are!! :laugh:

Papokarlo

03-18-2018, 03:57 PM

In other words, NAIVE citizens bathe in SHIT and ENJOY IT.

Putin is shit. Put is a terrorism supporter. Putin is a murderer. You think this is just 'headlines' and hasn't been shown and discussed and proven time and time again?

Funny little commie supporter you are!! :laugh:
Putin took over the world
Trump agent Putin

aboutime

03-18-2018, 04:00 PM

Putin took over the world
Trump agent Putin

Surprisingly...YOU ARE CORRECT....Putin took over his, and your WORLD OF SHIT.

He's even got you convinced...through ignorance, that Trump is an agent of Putin?

Is your name WATERS, or PELOSI Papokarlo????? You need a good Lobotomy. Bend over!

Kathianne

03-18-2018, 04:02 PM

Papokarlo

03-18-2018, 04:08 PM

Surprisingly...YOU ARE CORRECT....Putin took over his, and your WORLD OF SHIT.

He's even got you convinced...through ignorance, that Trump is an agent of Putin?

Is your name WATERS, or PELOSI Papokarlo????? You need a good Lobotomy. Bend over!
listen to CNN and BBC and Hillary Clinton, and Mike Pompeo say that Trump is агент Putin. ahahahahahaha, you're all crazy out there. Almighty Putin)) I like it

yesterday or the day before, Mike Pompeo said: "We have found no connection between trump and Putin, and we have no evidence. Do you remember what the hype was for this? you zombify without proof

aboutime

03-18-2018, 04:12 PM

listen to CNN and BBC and Hillary Clinton, and Mike Pompeo say that Trump is агент Putin. ahahahahahaha, you're all crazy out there. Almighty Putin)) I like it

yesterday or the day before, Mike Pompeo said: "We have found no connection between trump and Putin, and we have no evidence. Do you remember what the hype was for this? you zombify without proof

I'm so sorry you are so mentally sick Papokario. Being funny as you are. You should work on stage, pretending to have a brain, and singing for your meals from Putin. We like it too!
Keep coming back with more of your Pretend WHIT. You prove, Ignorance really is BLISS.

Drummond

03-18-2018, 04:20 PM

we have long realized that you do not care for international law
the narcissism is off the charts
as Obama said, it is an Exceptional nation.
:laugh:

Ahem.

By perpetrating the nerve agent deployment in a civilian environment in Salisbury, UK, YOU show us that YOU don't care about international law. You compound that criminal, terrorist intent, with denials.

Show me where, in international law, Russia is permitted to carry out assassinations using nerve agents and / or radioactive poison, in civilian towns or cities !!!

Papokarlo

03-18-2018, 04:21 PM

I'm so sorry you are so mentally sick Papokario. Being funny as you are. You should work on stage, pretending to have a brain, and singing for your meals from Putin. We like it too!
Keep coming back with more of your Pretend WHIT. You prove, Ignorance really is BLISS.

listen to CNN and BBC and Hillary Clinton, and Mike Pompeo say that Trump agent Putin. ahahahahahaha, you're all crazy out there. Almighty Putin)) I like it

aboutime

03-18-2018, 04:25 PM

listen to CNN and BBC and Hillary Clinton, and Mike Pompeo say that Trump agent Putin. ahahahahahaha, you're all crazy out there. Almighty Putin)) I like it

YOU ARE A PATIENT IN THE POLITICAL HOSPITAL??

We all know you now, and forgive you for everything ahahahahahahahahaha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYTKD6NhrXc

Gunny

03-18-2018, 04:29 PM

Putin took over the world
Trump agent PutinKeep thinking that. Since YOU brought him up, LET'S talk President Trump.

Trump is by my best guess doing his best to avoid confrontation with Putin because for once, HE is the one displaying the common sense because HE knows where it will go.

You think Putin's all that? IF he pushes Trump too far and Trump just says fuck it, it's on ... YOU better go find a place to hide. One thing about Trump, like him or don't, he doesn't play to lose. Thst is actually one of the things I DO like about him. So if you don't want to be sent scrambling with your tail between your legs back to your post-Cold War isolation, I'd suggest you get your President for Life to get some common sense.

Trump will NOT back down to Putin if Putin pushes him far enough. You need to stick that in your brain housing group, roll it around and assimilate that information and use it as a "the way it will be" working plan. Won't help you much, but it it'll give you more than that zero chance you have now.

Papokarlo

03-18-2018, 04:29 PM

YOU ARE A PATIENT IN THE POLITICAL HOSPITAL??

We all know you now, and forgive you for everything ahahahahahahahahaha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYTKD6NhrXc
ok

Gunny

03-18-2018, 04:35 PM

Gunny Laughing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR3L9ege5-M

jimnyc

03-18-2018, 05:01 PM

listen to CNN and BBC and Hillary Clinton, and Mike Pompeo say that Trump is агент Putin. ahahahahahaha, you're all crazy out there. Almighty Putin)) I like it

yesterday or the day before, Mike Pompeo said: "We have found no connection between trump and Putin, and we have no evidence. Do you remember what the hype was for this? you zombify without proof

Not me, I always have proof when I zombify!! Methinks you zombify with too much proof!

jimnyc

03-18-2018, 05:04 PM

listen to CNN and BBC and Hillary Clinton, and Mike Pompeo say that Trump agent Putin. ahahahahahaha, you're all crazy out there. Almighty Putin)) I like it

You do realize you sound like a deranged American liberal? You won't find folks here watching CNN but for some comedy maybe. I highly doubt folks here do much of the BBC either, but what we DO do here, is fact finding and trying our best to post with facts and supporting evidence and go back and forth from there.

"no proof. no proof. Putin great. But no proof."

You sound like a Russian lobotomized monkey. Nothing wrong that that though, just add it to the list of the other new 54 genders we have, you'll fit right in my little commie monkey friend! :)

Gunny

03-18-2018, 05:06 PM

listen to CNN and BBC and Hillary Clinton, and Mike Pompeo say that Trump agent Putin. ahahahahahaha, you're all crazy out there. Almighty Putin)) I like it

I'd be more willing to believe CNN and Hillary Clinton were owned by Putin. That would make WAY more sense. Putin's almost as anti-American as they are.

aboutime

03-18-2018, 05:18 PM

It is a well known, proven fact these days. Anyone who relies on, or worships the BBC or CNN as sources of HONEST INFORMATION, twisted as FACTUAL LIES from the American Left...Needs to have their Head Examined.

MENTAL ILLNESS seems to be a required trait of FAKE NEWS....Pretend JOURNALISM.

In other words...https://cdn1.quotesurf.com/small/721/4/602429-dont-pretend-to-be-a-journalist-if-youre-not-a-journalist-quote-1.jpg

https://www.mediasupport.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Fake-News-billede-small.jpg

Papokarlo

03-18-2018, 05:25 PM

I'd be more willing to believe CNN and Hillary Clinton were owned by Putin. That would make WAY more sense. Putin's almost as anti-American as they are.

49% for Hillary, are they anti-Americans too?))

Papokarlo

03-18-2018, 05:29 PM

It is a well known, proven fact these days. Anyone who relies on, or worships the BBC or CNN as sources of HONEST INFORMATION, twisted as FACTUAL LIES from the American Left...Needs to have their Head Examined.

MENTAL ILLNESS seems to be a required trait of FAKE NEWS....Pretend JOURNALISM.

In other words...

these channels were for Hillary, do you think 49% of America's population is stupid?

High_Plains_Drifter

03-18-2018, 05:51 PM

we have long realized that you do not care for international law
the narcissism is off the charts
as Obama said, it is an Exceptional nation.
:laugh:
Russia and your KGB dictator don't a fuck about international law either, so your demanding America abide by it is a FARCE.

Now march your ass up to the Kremlin and demand Putin follow international law... ya... we won't hear from you again because you'll either be killed or sent to gulag for a life of hard labor, and probably your family too.

Shut the fuck up.

Papokarlo

03-18-2018, 05:59 PM

Russia and your KGB dictator don't a fuck about international law either, so your demanding America abide by it is a FARCE.

Now march your ass up to the Kremlin and demand Putin follow international law... ya... we won't hear from you again because you'll either be killed or sent to gulag for a life of hard labor, and probably your family too.

Shut the fuck up.
not KGB and SVR. The 50s are long gone, Wake up. the world has changed. you still think that we are KGB and we have the Gulag. ahahaha. think so, and we are going to develop. only then do not be surprised

Papokarlo

03-18-2018, 06:06 PM

the demonic leader of Russia chose the demonic people of Russia

aboutime

03-18-2018, 06:12 PM

not KGB and SVR. The 50s are long gone, Wake up. the world has changed. you still think that we are KGB and we have the Gulag. ahahaha. think so, and we are going to develop. only then do not be surprised

Papokario. WE DON'T THINK Putin still thinks he's in the KGB. Doesn't matter what YOU, or anyone else calls it. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...IT'S STILL THE KGB, and pretending all those missing Anti-Putin people do not live in a Gulag is simply, more of your brainwashed, propaganda that is so good. ALL OF YOU DENY IT.

Gunny

03-18-2018, 06:13 PM

49% for Hillary, are they anti-Americans too?))They're stupid sheep. Kind of like you. Blindly following without question. They'll vote for a Democrat no matter how crooked or dumb. And they DO NOT stand for the principles in the Constitution of the United States. Be your own judge.

aboutime

03-18-2018, 06:17 PM

these channels were for Hillary, do you think 49% of America's population is stupid?

YES! Just like everybody who voted twice for Obama, and all of the followers of Hillary. They are only stupid because they REJECT hearing, and learning HONEST, TRUTHFUL facts they didn't make up using the FAKE NEWS sources who LOVE YOU for being as stupid as they are.

Papokarlo

03-18-2018, 06:20 PM

Papokario. WE DON'T THINK Putin still thinks he's in the KGB. Doesn't matter what YOU, or anyone else calls it. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...IT'S STILL THE KGB, and pretending all those missing Anti-Putin people do not live in a Gulag is simply, more of your brainwashed, propaganda that is so good. ALL OF YOU DENY IT.
if you think that's the KGB do you live in the 50's as they say in Russia - as you call a boat so it will float. Rather, change your mind about some things. You have old stereotypes.

Papokarlo

03-18-2018, 06:23 PM

YES! Just like everybody who voted twice for Obama, and all of the followers of Hillary. They are only stupid because they REJECT hearing, and learning HONEST, TRUTHFUL facts they didn't make up using the FAKE NEWS sources who LOVE YOU for being as stupid as they are.
so you have half the country stupid morons? uuaahhaha

Papokarlo

03-18-2018, 06:24 PM

Vladimir Putin 76.45% yuuhuuuuu!
you'll see, tomorrow BBC, CNN will again be dissatisfied with the elections in Russia. us don't give a fuck on their opinion

aboutime

03-18-2018, 06:29 PM

so you have half the country stupid morons? Uuaahhaha

yes....they are all just like you!

Gunny

03-18-2018, 06:32 PM

Vladimir Putin 76.45% yuuhuuuuu!
you'll see, tomorrow BBC, CNN will again be dissatisfied with the elections in Russia. us don't give a fuck on their opinionObviously you do or you wouldn't keep bringing them up.

You aren't impressing me with your lack of skills. First, we already told you who was going to win. Like there was any doubt. Second, your lumping together of Western media outlets shows your ignorance to them and what they report, and to the majority on this board and our political opinions.

Guess you've been too busy running your mouth to hear anything. It happens.

Papokarlo

03-18-2018, 06:37 PM

American election observers do not understand why Russians smile and vote for Putin for bloody Mordor. )))

Gunny

03-18-2018, 06:38 PM

American election observers do not understand why Russians smile and vote for Putin for bloody Mordor. )))Actually, no one cares. Yay. Putin is President. Again. What a change from the last 12 years :rolleyes:

Papokarlo

03-18-2018, 06:39 PM

yes....they are all just like you!

before you tell other countries how to live, deal with their stupid. ок?

Gunny

03-18-2018, 06:44 PM

before you tell other countries how to live, deal with their stupid. ок?You ought to try it sometime. We aren't on a Russian board telling you what to think. You're on OUR turf. Deal with it.

aboutime

03-18-2018, 06:53 PM

before you tell other countries how to live, deal with their stupid. ок?

None of us have tried to tell YOU how to live. We're proud of how we live, and are able to disagree with tyrants like Putin..and even YOU who come here to scold us for being so free to speak our minds without worry of having a PUTIN come to our door, or showing us your GULAG way of life.
By the way. Tell us about your RIGHTS, FREEDOMS, and LIBERTIES there. Then tell us how to live.

Papokarlo

03-18-2018, 07:19 PM

I hate liberals.

Papokarlo

03-18-2018, 07:19 PM

I'm going to bed

Gunny

03-18-2018, 07:21 PM

I hate liberals.In this country, you are one. Might want to think about that.

Papokarlo

03-18-2018, 07:26 PM

In this country, you are one. Might want to think about that.
us 76%

aboutime

03-18-2018, 07:27 PM

I hate liberals.

How can that be in a Socialist nation? Sleep with one eye open. Putin is WATCHING YOU!
http://s.quickmeme.com/img/85/853e6d50c39dc6be692f89c28d8942461ee4c3267e3c8bf26d f1c85c527b20cd.jpg

Gunny

03-18-2018, 09:55 PM

us 76%Russian liberals 76%? That's nice.

I DO like the way you're acting like you won something here. I assure you that you have not. Might want to go gloat at your neighbor's apartment or something. I could really care less. Putin should be proud. He's got the support of a bonehead that thinks a signal flare is an assault weapon :laugh:

Drummond

03-18-2018, 09:56 PM

us 76%

... an impossible figure to be arrived at legitimately, and certainly from consideration of so many candidates. This figure you give with pride, actually says it all for OUR arguments.

Gunny

03-18-2018, 10:01 PM

... an impossible figure to be arrived at legitimately, and certainly from consideration of so many candidates. This figure you give with pride, actually says it all for OUR arguments.I think last time I saw that high a voter percentage was Idi Amin :laugh:

Drummond

03-18-2018, 10:08 PM

I think last time I saw that high a voter percentage was Idi Amin :laugh:

... I'm not sure. I think kindly old Saddam Hussein managed a higher figure.

Did the occupants of his mass graves go out to vote BEFORE or AFTER they died, I wonder .. ?

Gunny

03-18-2018, 10:13 PM

... I'm not sure. I think kindly old Saddam Hussein managed a higher figure.

Did the occupants of his mass graves go out to vote BEFORE or AFTER they died, I wonder .. ?Depends on who you ask :laugh:

Papokarlo

03-19-2018, 01:46 AM

Russia is sliding away from the influence of America and Europe, so we are seeing hysterics in the world.

Balu

03-19-2018, 01:53 AM

Russia is sliding away from the influence of America and Europe, so we are seeing hysterics in the world.

True!
They thought they won a war, but it was only a combat. If they knew our History they could remember, that once we left Moscow, but soon we found ourselves in Paris after what there appeared Bistro. For Americans - the meaning of the word "Bistro" is QUICKLY! :laugh:

Papokarlo

03-19-2018, 02:07 AM

True!
They thought they won a war, but it was only a combat. If they knew our History they could remember, that once we left Moscow, but soon we found ourselves in Paris after what there appeared Bistro. For Americans - the meaning of the word "Bistro" is QUICKLY! :laugh:
бля) их каналы визжали что трамп агент путина, теперь прошло время и директор цру говорит что доказательств нет, я хуею. вот так у них всегда. сначала введут войска а потом лет через 5-10 ой мы ошибались, как говорится а осадочек та остался

Balu

03-19-2018, 02:44 AM

бля) их каналы визжали что трамп агент путина, теперь прошло время и директор цру говорит что доказательств нет, я хуею. вот так у них всегда. сначала введут войска а потом лет через 5-10 ой мы ошибались, как говорится а осадочек та остался

Well...
Do not forget we are not in Russia here where a lot of people know languages. They do not understand what you've written, so you'll be asked to stick to English. And another point - Mr. Zadornov was absolutely right, speaking about them.
My signature is a translation of famous Pushkin's words:

Хвалу и клевету приемли равнодушно
И не оспоривай глупца.

So, don't waste time. They are such as they are and "горбатого могила исправит".
For the sake of justice there are several smart persons, unfortunately few, with analytic brains of a chess player. You will see them yourself. :slap:

jimnyc

03-19-2018, 05:55 AM

бля) их каналы визжали что трамп агент путина, теперь прошло время и директор цру говорит что доказательств нет, я хуею. вот так у них всегда. сначала введут войска а потом лет через 5-10 ой мы ошибались, как говорится а осадочек та остался

Well...
Do not forget we are not in Russia here where a lot of people know languages. They do not understand what you've written, so you'll be asked to stick to English.

And that is correct...

Papokarlo - please speak ONLY English. This is an American website and we speak English here, even if folks here fully understand some other languages, and some know several languages.

But this is America, we don't want to press #1 to hear English. Just please follow the written rules of the board you agreed to when joining. :)

jimnyc

03-19-2018, 05:56 AM

Well...
Do not forget we are not in Russia here where a lot of people know languages. They do not understand what you've written, so you'll be asked to stick to English. And another point - Mr. Zadornov was absolutely right, speaking about them.
My signature is a translation of famous Pushkin's words:

Хвалу и клевету приемли равнодушно
И не оспоривай глупца.

So, don't waste time. They are such as they are and "горбатого могила исправит".
For the sake of justice there are several smart persons, unfortunately few, with analytic brains of a chess player. You will see them yourself. :slap:

Balu - I prefer my native language. I don't want some Russian trolls coming here and taking over the board in Russian. If you don't like it - then go find yourself a Russian board to write on.

Drummond

03-19-2018, 07:37 AM

For the sake of justice there are several smart persons, unfortunately few, with analytic brains of a chess player. You will see them yourself.

Balu, that's very kind of you ... thank you !!!

But you overstate the case.

You simply don't understand (a) how well we understand the truth about Russian psychology, and (b) how comparatively free we are of propagandist influences here. Why ? Because .. (c) we in the West believe in a society where freedom is genuinely valued.

We KNOW that, in a true democracy, for just one candidate to get a 76 percent approval expressed as a voting percentage, especially from such a range of choices, is too improbable a phenomenon. It can only happen if the 'election' is fixed in some way. By vote rigging, or by somehow brainwashing people with an onslaught of propaganda.

Question: do Russians really understand how impoverished they are, compared to people in the West ?

It makes no sense to me that they'd overwhelmingly give voting approval to the leader, and political party, which assured they remained so !

So, the 'election' was rigged. And/or, Russians are so swamped by propaganda giving them a false picture of the wider world, that they genuinely don't know any better.

Either way, it's rigid State control which keeps them very firmly under the Kremlin's thumb.

Or is it ... jackboot ?

H'mm ?

Papokarlo

03-19-2018, 08:06 AM

Balu - I prefer my native language. I don't want some Russian trolls coming here and taking over the board in Russian. If you don't like it - then go find yourself a Russian board to write on.
I just could not resist, and cried out in Russian)))

Papokarlo

03-19-2018, 08:09 AM

Balu. They can't even believe 76%, and you can't prove them anything, they've never seen anything like it in their lives. It's crazy for them:cool:

Drummond

03-19-2018, 08:19 AM

Balu. They can't even believe 76%, and you can't prove them anything, they've never seen anything like it in their lives. It's crazy for them:cool:

A 76% approval rating for one candidate IS crazy. It just never happens. Unless arranged that way.

Sorry. We're not stupid.

Papokarlo

03-19-2018, 08:39 AM

A 76% approval rating for one candidate IS crazy. It just never happens. Unless arranged that way.

Sorry. We're not stupid.
Balu, you hear that too? :laugh:
you have no such democracy yet

jimnyc

03-19-2018, 09:06 AM

I just could not resist, and cried out in Russian)))

Well that's fine, you ain't banned or nothing my buddy, I'm just making it far for ALL so everyone understands what is in front of them - and naturally leaning towards the language that "I" speak fluently, since I kinda pay the bills around these here parts. :)

Send me $20 in American dollars to my Paypal account listed above, and I'll gladly allow you 20 posts per month in which you can speak in clear Russian if you would like. :) :)

jimnyc

03-19-2018, 09:07 AM

Balu. They can't even believe 76%, and you can't prove them anything, they've never seen anything like it in their lives. It's crazy for them:cool:

Not crazy at all, and nothing to prove to me, I truly believe that Putin DID win by that much - with some help of cheating of course.

jimnyc

03-19-2018, 09:08 AM

Balu, you hear that too? :laugh:
you have no such democracy yet

Interesting that you admit to crying, and now have been repeatedly calling out to Balu. Can you not post, in detail, and handle discussing and debating things with others - all by your Russian little self? Or do you and Mr. Blue hold hands?

Papokarlo

03-19-2018, 09:20 AM

Well that's fine, you ain't banned or nothing my buddy, I'm just making it far for ALL so everyone understands what is in front of them - and naturally leaning towards the language that "I" speak fluently, since I kinda pay the bills around these here parts. :)

Send me $20 in American dollars to my Paypal account listed above, and I'll gladly allow you 20 posts per month in which you can speak in clear Russian if you would like. :) :)
:laugh: no thanks

jimnyc

03-19-2018, 09:24 AM

:laugh: no thanks

Excellent choice!! So English it is then. Thanks!!

Gunny

03-19-2018, 09:35 AM

Balu. They can't even believe 76%, and you can't prove them anything, they've never seen anything like it in their lives. It's crazy for them:cool:

You have YET to prove one thing. No links to sources, no backup to arguments, no common sense ... no nothing. When you do, I will be the first to give you an e for effort.

So who has said Putin didn't get 76% of the vote by official record? No one. Do we believe it is accurate and represents the truth? Nope. You sure as Hell can't prove it is. All you can stand on is "the official Russian report".

I'd just as soon believe Hillary Clinton as take your word for anything.

Papokarlo

03-19-2018, 09:43 AM

You have YET to prove one thing. No links to sources, no backup to arguments, no common sense ... no nothing. When you do, I will be the first to give you an e for effort.

So who has said Putin didn't get 76% of the vote by official record? No one. Do we believe it is accurate and represents the truth? Nope. You sure as Hell can't prove it is. All you can stand on is "the official Russian report".

I'd just as soon believe Hillary Clinton as take your word for anything.
1600 observers from abroad, including the us. ask them. no complaints
this was all done for the transparency of the elections, and that our American friends could not blame us

Gunny

03-19-2018, 09:58 AM

1600 observers from abroad, including the us. ask them. no complaints
this was all done for the transparency of the elections, and that our American friends could not blame usI would hope that by now someone in Russia had figured out how to make it appear legitimate. I mean, you DO have to go through the motions. I guess. Frankly, why bother? You're fooling no one, but whatever trips your trigger, dude.

jimnyc

03-19-2018, 09:58 AM

1600 observers from abroad, including the us. ask them. no complaints
this was all done for the transparency of the elections, and that our American friends could not blame us

The observers found cheating and now there are witnesses to this cheating, actual photos and dang video!! So the observers OBSERVED CHEATING. But you still go LALALALALALALALA in your ears. :lalala:

It's breakfast time here, what time is it there, vodka time again? :alcoholic:

Papokarlo

03-19-2018, 10:11 AM

The observers found cheating and now there are witnesses to this cheating, actual photos and dang video!! So the observers OBSERVED CHEATING. But you still go LALALALALALALALA in your ears. :lalala:

It's breakfast time here, what time is it there, vodka time again? :alcoholic:
it's cheating, you lie.

Gunny

03-19-2018, 10:20 AM

it's cheating, you lie.Damn. Look what I can do with ONE neg rep. First one I've handed out in about 6 or 7 years.

I warned you about calling people liars.

Papokarlo

03-19-2018, 10:29 AM

Damn. Look what I can do with ONE neg rep. First one I've handed out in about 6 or 7 years.

I warned you about calling people liars.
just don't cry))

Gunny

03-19-2018, 10:35 AM

just don't cry))Nothing to cry about. You got what you deserved. Calling someone a liar without proof HERE in real life, (remember this is a US board, not a Soviet occupied one) will get your teeth rammed down your throat. Your word's only as good as your name and your name's only as good as your word. try to not spend too much time figuring that out.

High_Plains_Drifter

03-19-2018, 10:39 AM

not KGB and SVR. The 50s are long gone, Wake up. the world has changed. you still think that we are KGB and we have the Gulag. ahahaha. think so, and we are going to develop. only then do not be surprised
YES KGB... once KGB, ALWAYS KGB... and Putin was/still is in his mind, KGB...

Until he was handpicked in August by then-President Boris Yeltsin to become prime minister, Putin had never been a public figure. He spent 17 years as a mid-level agent in the Soviet KGB's foreign intelligence wing, rising only to the rank of lieutenant colonel. Later, as an aide to a prickly, controversial mayor of St. Petersburg, Russia's second-largest city and Putin's home town, he made a point of staying in the background.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/russiagov/putin.htm (http://http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/russiagov/putin.htm)

Papokarlo

03-19-2018, 10:51 AM

you insult Putin without evidence, you will retire all

jimnyc

03-19-2018, 11:11 AM

1600 observers from abroad, including the us. ask them. no complaints
this was all done for the transparency of the elections, and that our American friends could not blame us

it's cheating, you lie.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?62227-Russia-election-What-do-young-Russians-think-of-Putin&p=900470#post900470

Gunny

03-19-2018, 11:30 AM

you insult Putin without evidence, you will retire allI'm already retired, bubba. Before that, I used to train regularly to kill ragheads and commies. Was fun.

But let's be clear ... I insulted YOU.

Papokarlo

03-19-2018, 11:36 AM

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?62227-Russia-election-What-do-young-Russians-think-of-Putin&p=900470#post900470
and where does Putin, all the candidates recognized the elections. our English-speaking friends again saw something there. ALL CANDIDATES ACCEPTED THE ELECTION, WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? from each candidate on each site there were people .

Gunny

03-19-2018, 12:12 PM

and where does Putin, all the candidates recognized the elections. our English-speaking friends again saw something there. ALL CANDIDATES ACCEPTED THE ELECTION, WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? from each candidate on each site there were people .Why does the simple point zoom right over your head that no one wants nor has asked for anything? It's not that hard.

The World is just going to shrug and get on with its day. Nobody was surprised Putin won. Nobody was surprised widespread cheating was reported. SO we'll shrug and accept the fact that Putin voted himself in for a 4th term. NO ONE is going to accept that he won a fair election. It's THAT simple. You keep belabouring the point, and you're wasting your time. He cheated. I know it. You know it. The World knows it. End of story. Get over it.

Drummond

03-19-2018, 01:24 PM

Balu, you hear that too? :laugh:
you have no such democracy yet

We don't want a democracy in which landslide victories are GUARANTEED to occur. You can't get any such thing in free and fair elections ... not as preset guaranteed results, anyway.

But, OK, you may not know that. Understood.

Papokarlo

03-19-2018, 01:56 PM

We don't want a democracy in which landslide victories are GUARANTEED to occur. You can't get any such thing in free and fair elections ... not as preset guaranteed results, anyway.

But, OK, you may not know that. Understood.
you know, now is not the 50s , Russia has changed, and honestly the people chose Putin. and you still can't figure it out. the world has changed

High_Plains_Drifter

03-19-2018, 03:03 PM

America is a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC, not a democracy.

In our "Pledge of Allegiance" we say, "and to the REPUBLIC, for which it stands," not, "and to the DEMOCRACY, for which it stands."

The most basic definition of democracy is "mob rule." We don't have "mob rule" in America. If we did, L.A., NYC and Chicago would be telling the rest of the nation who the president should be, EVERY TIME. Our electoral college was one of the most genius things our founding fathers ever devised.

Now Russia on the other hand doesn't have mob rule... it's PUTIN rule, period, and if you don't like it, you either disappear or are jailed.

Gunny

03-19-2018, 03:31 PM

you know, now is not the 50s , Russia has changed, and honestly the people chose Putin. and you still can't figure it out. the world has changedReally? I read what Polite Russian posts and I can believe that. THEN I listen to Putin, and/or read what you and Balu post and all I can do is think 1950s-1960s.

Maybe some of the people HAVE changed. The BS from propaganda ministers like yourself hasn't one bit. "Meet the new commie ... smells like the old commie ....We won't get fooled again..."

aboutime

03-19-2018, 03:40 PM

and where does Putin, all the candidates recognized the elections. our English-speaking friends again saw something there. ALL CANDIDATES ACCEPTED THE ELECTION, WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? from each candidate on each site there were people .

Papokario. What YOU, and Balu fail to admit, or even consider is. How Putin managed to WIN so big....primarily due to FEAR. Anyone who dared to vote against Putin knows...they put their lives in their hands for all to see. At least, as it is here in America. Americans were AFRAID to NOT vote for OBAMA because they feared being labeled RACISTS. Just as the Democrats here are doing to anyone who didn't vote for HILLARY.

We're not the part of America that FEARS crooks, liars, cheats, murderers, and Dictators like Putin who have taught you the SAFE WAY to be a Hypocrite is to SHUT UP, and WAIT.

Gunny

03-19-2018, 03:46 PM

Papokario. What YOU, and Balu fail to admit, or even consider is. How Putin managed to WIN so big....primarily due to FEAR. Anyone who dared to vote against Putin knows...they put their lives in their hands for all to see. At least, as it is here in America. Americans were AFRAID to NOT vote for OBAMA because they feared being labeled RACISTS. Just as the Democrats here are doing to anyone who didn't vote for HILLARY.

We're not the part of America that FEARS crooks, liars, cheats, murderers, and Dictators like Putin who have taught you the SAFE WAY to be a Hypocrite is to SHUT UP, and WAIT.Anyone who didn't vote for Putin better not have travel plans to the UK :hanging:

Papokarlo

03-19-2018, 03:51 PM

Papokario. What YOU, and Balu fail to admit, or even consider is. How Putin managed to WIN so big....primarily due to FEAR. Anyone who dared to vote against Putin knows...they put their lives in their hands for all to see. At least, as it is here in America. Americans were AFRAID to NOT vote for OBAMA because they feared being labeled RACISTS. Just as the Democrats here are doing to anyone who didn't vote for HILLARY.

We're not the part of America that FEARS crooks, liars, cheats, murderers, and Dictators like Putin who have taught you the SAFE WAY to be a Hypocrite is to SHUT UP, and WAIT.
we don't have that, we have democracy, nobody ever calls us bad because of his political view
this is possible only in America

Gunny

03-19-2018, 03:57 PM

we don't have that, we have democracy, nobody ever calls us bad because of his political view
this is possible only in AmericaNot sure which World/planet you live on, but most of it thinks y'all are thugs.

aboutime

03-19-2018, 04:02 PM

The key difference between a democracy and a republic lies in the limits placed on government by the law, which has implications for minority rights. Both forms of government tend to use a representational system — i.e., citizens vote to elect politicians to represent their interests and form the government. In a republic, a constitution or charter of rights protects certain inalienable rights that cannot be taken away by the government, even if it has been elected by a majority of voters. In a "pure democracy," the majority is not restrained in this way and can impose its will on the minority.

Most modern nations are democratic republics with a constitution, which can be amended by a popularly elected government. This comparison therefore contrasts the form of government in most countries today with a theoretical construct of a "pure democracy", mainly to highlight the features of a republic.
https://www.diffen.com/difference/Democracy_vs_Republic

Drummond

03-19-2018, 06:35 PM

we don't have that, we have democracy, nobody ever calls us bad because of his political view
this is possible only in America

A 'democracy', where everybody's viewpoint is rigidly controlled through State control of what your media tells you ??

Don't be ridiculous. You have a sham of a democracy. We all know it.

mundame

03-19-2018, 09:03 PM

Drummond

03-19-2018, 09:59 PM

Not sure which World/planet you live on, but most of it thinks y'all are thugs.

Here's some proof from a BBC broadcast (I've also posted this link on another thread ...) ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5-zZEYEXZs

High_Plains_Drifter

03-19-2018, 10:15 PM

America is a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC.

Papokarlo

03-25-2018, 09:43 AM

The Wall Street Journal is advocating that we sanction Putin directly for the nerve gas attack on the spy in London. Putin sure is causing a lot of trouble in the world; much like Kim Jong Un or Iran's dictators. Russia is not a big or especially powerful country anymore, but it is causing as much trouble as these others.

BRICS and SCO countries do not think so(which Russia is a party to), it is almost 50% of the world's population
you do know that such a Commonwealth there?or you just watch bbc and cnn

Papokarlo

03-25-2018, 09:52 AM

Here's some proof from a BBC broadcast (I've also posted this link on another thread ...) ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5-zZEYEXZs

ahahahaha agent evidence from CNN I already said that you only watch bbc NBC cnn and so on, know that we have an appointment book 1.5% of the votes, and Navalny contracted of theft(served a sentence in prison) and according to the laws of Russia can not be President. let me remind you that 72% of the votes for Putin, can you still start to respect these 72%? or do you prefer to talk about poor 1.5%? Putin has already said that he will take into account the wishes of these 1.5%

and again, evidence of this is CNN...:laugh::laugh::laugh:

aboutime

03-25-2018, 11:27 AM

we don't have that, we have democracy, nobody ever calls us bad because of his political view
this is possible only in America

Here in America. We know a PURE DEMOCRACY...as you enjoy bragging that you have...is MOB RULE. Of course. Nobody would call him bad there in Russia. That would mean THE MOB took control, and YOU DISAPPEARED from the Earth....Probably to SIBERIA...if you are still alive.

jimnyc

03-25-2018, 11:57 AM

you know, now is not the 50s , Russia has changed, and honestly the people chose Putin. and you still can't figure it out. the world has changed

Which people, the endless people who stuffed ballots, even on camera? Have they all been arrested? Can you link me to the high priority investigation taking place to find the endless people who cheated? And the locations and the folks running them?

jimnyc

03-25-2018, 12:00 PM

ahahahaha agent evidence from CNN I already said that you only watch bbc NBC cnn and so on, know that we have an appointment book 1.5% of the votes, and Navalny contracted of theft(served a sentence in prison) and according to the laws of Russia can not be President. let me remind you that 72% of the votes for Putin, can you still start to respect these 72%? or do you prefer to talk about poor 1.5%? Putin has already said that he will take into account the wishes of these 1.5%

and again, evidence of this is CNN...:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Again, 70+ percent while CHEATING voters were everywhere. Folks were deterred from voting for others. No one in power in Russia cares, and no one around the world cares about Russia and it's leader - other than talking about cheating, murders, scandals, having diplomats expelled. Yup, all great stuff!! :rolleyes:

Papokarlo

03-26-2018, 08:33 PM

))
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8_mVH-XQyY

Papokarlo

03-26-2018, 08:41 PM

Again, 70+ percent while CHEATING voters were everywhere. Folks were deterred from voting for others. No one in power in Russia cares, and no one around the world cares about Russia and it's leader - other than talking about cheating, murders, scandals, having diplomats expelled. Yup, all great stuff!! :rolleyes:
where the election fraud was not recognized, the results were annulled in 7 polling stations. There were about 10 minor violations, you say it was total. Yes, there have been violations but they were cancelled. Liberals in Russia complain that one ballot was thrown on one of sites. that makes me laugh because it's just one ballot. it's not 20 000 000 ballots)))) or 30 000 000

mundame

03-26-2018, 08:43 PM

Very good. That's encouraging.

In that case, you can respect President Trump's staunch support of the British Government's position regarding Russia's criminal act of murder and deployment of a chemical weapon, on British soil !!

I think you should be pleased, Drummond. (As pleased as anyone could be after such atrocities from Russia, at least twice!) I am amazed at 14 countries allying to expel Russian diplomats and spies! Excellent. This is one of the best responses to international terrorism I have ever seen.

Papokarlo

03-26-2018, 08:45 PM

Which people, the endless people who stuffed ballots, even on camera? Have they all been arrested? Can you link me to the high priority investigation taking place to find the endless people who cheated? And the locations and the folks running them?
Yes, even in Russia on the news passed the fact that there were violations. YES, I DO CLAIM WITH CONFIDENCE THAT THE 7 POLLING STATIONS WHERE THERE WERE VIOLATIONS, THE RESULTS WERE CANCELLED.
in these polling stations there were violations that could not affect the outcome of the elections. That's ridiculous.

Papokarlo

03-26-2018, 08:52 PM

I think you should be pleased, Drummond. (As pleased as anyone could be after such atrocities from Russia, at least twice!) I am amazed at 14 countries allying to expel Russian diplomats and spies! Excellent. This is one of the best responses to international terrorism I have ever seen.
half of the European Union does not accept the Kingdom and is waiting for the completion of the investigation.
in this video it is told that already in 1998 about substance "Novichok" knew the whole world after the book Vila Mirzoyanova of 1998 was published in USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8_mVH-XQyY
that is, everyone knew about the substance called "Novichok" a long time ago. And it could be made by anyone.

Gunny

03-26-2018, 09:11 PM

half of the European Union does not accept the Kingdom and is waiting for the completion of the investigation.
in this video it is told that already in 1998 about substance "Novichok" knew the whole world after the book Vila Mirzoyanova of 1998 was published in USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8_mVH-XQyY
that is, everyone knew about the substance called "Novichok" a long time ago. And it could be made by anyone.Come on. Really? "Knowing about" and "knowing how to produce" are 2 VERY different things.

mundame

03-26-2018, 09:14 PM

Papokarlo

03-26-2018, 09:23 PM

Come on. Really? "Knowing about" and "knowing how to produce" are 2 VERY different things.
the fact is that this substance has disappeared from subsequent publications since 1998
don't you think that's weird?)

Papokarlo

03-26-2018, 09:25 PM

Whoa! AP just reported that Australia has joined the crowd --- they are now expelling Russkies too.

Canada already did, so I guess it makes sense that Australia, another member of the British Commonwealth, join their allies.

Very impressive. I don't think we've seen this kind of unity in a long time --- since WWII, maybe.
in this case, it is necessary to expel former Russian intelligence officers from the countries of the world, not the current diplomats. the world is so stupid, and it makes people like you believe it.

Gunny

03-26-2018, 09:42 PM

the fact is that this substance has disappeared from subsequent publications since 1998
don't you think that's weird?)I think Great Britain has obviously shown enough proof to get a bunch of countries on Russia's ass. The final nail in your coffin will be the lab results.

The entire Western world has been awaiting a sufficient explanation otherwise and none has been forthcoming. If it was the other way around, you'd be yelling for war.

Papokarlo

03-26-2018, 10:02 PM

I think Great Britain has obviously shown enough proof to get a bunch of countries on Russia's ass. The final nail in your coffin will be the lab results.

The entire Western world has been awaiting a sufficient explanation otherwise and none has been forthcoming. If it was the other way around, you'd be yelling for war.
remember once and for all, we'll never wait for the test results. this substance could have been produced by anyone, you still don't understand?

Gunny

03-26-2018, 10:12 PM

remember once and for all, we'll never wait for the test results. this substance could have been produced by anyone, you still don't understand?I think it is YOU that doesn't understand. I seem to understand perfectly well. Russia produced the chemical as a weapon. Russia is accountable for that weapon it swears was destroyed. Obviously it was not. Who produced it? Russia. See what a nice, neat little conclusion that leads to?

"Anybody" cannot produce chemical weapons that are Nation-specific. They are Nation=specific because that specific nation alone produced them for their sole use as some "bigger and better" weapon. That narrows it down to ONE owner.

As yet, Russia has offered ZERO explanation as to how a Russia-specific chemical weapon could have escaped its control. Until Russia does so, there is no other logical conclusion to come to other than it was used by Russia.

Still don't understand? All the lie and word-twisting in the World isn't going to get you off the hook. Y'all need to take lessons from our Democrats. You're not even good at lying.

Drummond

03-27-2018, 07:55 AM

remember once and for all, we'll never wait for the test results. this substance could have been produced by anyone, you still don't understand?

No. You WON'T wait. Why ? Because you know what they'll reveal, that's why.

If you were correct .. then the OPCW's findings would be meaningless. Yet, the world thinks otherwise.

How come ?

Here's the point, I think. Chemical analyses break down the proportions of constituent substances within a material. It may well be that this agent will so precisely match the record the OPCW has for the analysis they have of known Russian samples, that an alternative origin for this latest one is simply ... impossible.

But, hey, you don't care. Deny. Deny again. Deny some more. Whatever it takes ....

mundame

03-27-2018, 09:00 AM

I think it is YOU that doesn't understand. I seem to understand perfectly well. Russia produced the chemical as a weapon. Russia is accountable for that weapon it swears was destroyed. Obviously it was not. Who produced it? Russia. See what a nice, neat little conclusion that leads to?

"Anybody" cannot produce chemical weapons that are Nation-specific. They are Nation=specific because that specific nation alone produced them for their sole use as some "bigger and better" weapon. That narrows it down to ONE owner.

As yet, Russia has offered ZERO explanation as to how a Russia-specific chemical weapon could have escaped its control. Until Russia does so, there is no other logical conclusion to come to other than it was used by Russia.

I think it was supposed to be well known it was a Russian attack. That was the point. To scare their own citizens, and also show the West they can attack anywhere. An unidentifiable poison would have been pointless. It wasn't about an old spy and his daughter: it was about propaganda.

We know it's Russian because Putin wants us to know it's Russian ------ and I think that's why the really impressive response by so much of the developed world in reply. This was an explicit attack and we are saying we know it and we aren't having any more of this.

Papokarlo

03-27-2018, 10:40 AM

No. You WON'T wait. Why ? Because you know what they'll reveal, that's why.

If you were correct .. then the OPCW's findings would be meaningless. Yet, the world thinks otherwise.

How come ?

Here's the point, I think. Chemical analyses break down the proportions of constituent substances within a material. It may well be that this agent will so precisely match the record the OPCW has for the analysis they have of known Russian samples, that an alternative origin for this latest one is simply ... impossible.

But, hey, you don't care. Deny. Deny again. Deny some more. Whatever it takes ....
This is England, remember once and for all that we will not see the results of the investigation. as with the vial Colin Powell(Found in Iraq chemical weapons?) just like in Yugoslavia, no investigations, and a lot more. No investigation. remember, all in one voice shouted that Russia shot down plane over Ukraine MH17? it's been 5 years, and there's no investigation. But he accused Russia. Maybe someone has proved as the Assad regime in Syria used chemical weapons? but how much noise was in the press. These topics about chemical weapons have already got the world, 11 EU countries refused to join Theresa may and will not expel diplomats. Soon the whole world will understand, and learns truth.

Drummond

03-27-2018, 11:38 AM

This is England, remember once and for all that we will not see the results of the investigation. as with the vial Colin Powell(Found in Iraq chemical weapons?) just like in Yugoslavia, no investigations, and a lot more. No investigation. remember, all in one voice shouted that Russia shot down plane over Ukraine MH17? it's been 5 years, and there's no investigation. But he accused Russia. Maybe someone has proved as the Assad regime in Syria used chemical weapons? but how much noise was in the press. These topics about chemical weapons have already got the world, 11 EU countries refused to join Theresa may and will not expel diplomats. Soon the whole world will understand, and learns truth.

Yes. You're 'innocent' of so much, aren't you. NEVER culpable. NEVER to blame. Always 'saintly' in such matters ...

As for what is or is not concluded from investigations, didn't it occur to you that you're drip-fed what the Kremlin wants you to know ?

For some balance in this current situation ... this may be of help ...

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/investigators-from-chemical-weapons-watchdog-to-arrive-in-uk

Independent technical experts from the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) will arrive in the UK tomorrow to kick off their investigation into the nerve agent used in the attempted assassinations of Mr Skripal and his daughter in Salisbury on 4 March.

The team from The Hague will meet with officials from the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory and the police to discuss the process for collecting samples, including environmental ones.

These will then be despatched to highly reputable international laboratories selected by the OPCW for testing with results expected to take a minimum of 2 weeks.

This is the next step in the process to independently verify the analysis carried out by the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down. Last Wednesday, the Prime Minister wrote to the OPCW to formally invite them to verify the government’s analysis of the nerve agent used in the Salisbury attack. Subsequently the UK’s Permanent Representative to the OPCW wrote to the Technical Secretariat inviting them to come to the UK to take a sample, under Article 8 of the Chemical Weapons Convention.

It reflects the UK’s commitment to fully complying with the obligations of the Chemical Weapons Convention. On 12 March the Foreign Secretary summoned the Russian Ambassador and sought an explanation from the Russian government, as Article 9 of the convention is clear we have the right to do. We received no meaningful response. It is therefore Russia which is failing to comply with the provisions of the convention. We should resist any Russian attempts to muddy the waters.

The Foreign Secretary revealed this morning that we have information indicating that within the last decade, Russia has investigated ways of delivering nerve agents likely for assassination. And part of this programme has involved producing and stockpiling quantities of Novichok. This is a violation of the Chemical Weapons Convention.

The start of the investigation by the international chemical weapons watchdog comes as the Foreign Secretary travels to Brussels to brief foreign ministers from across the European Union on the attempted assassinations in Salisbury before meeting with the NATO Secretary General.

As the Foreign Secretary noted this morning, we have been encouraged by the international support we have received to date. More than 20 countries across 6 continents have expressed their solidarity with us and we will continue to work with our European partners and allies around the world to tackle the threat posed by Russia to our collective security.

Russia is acting with hostility, in a manner which contravenes international law, and obviously, there will be countries across the world concerned for their own security, who'll act to preserve it. Russia needs, now, to understand that foreign powers will not stand idly by and just let the threat go unanswered.

You can stand on the side of reputability and decency. Or, you can continue to stand with the aggressors, and follow meekly behind those whose unspoken mantra is 'Might is Right'. Papokarlo, finally make your choice.

Look behind you, before doing so ....

Papokarlo

03-27-2018, 12:54 PM

Yes. You're 'innocent' of so much, aren't you. NEVER culpable. NEVER to blame. Always 'saintly' in such matters ...

As for what is or is not concluded from investigations, didn't it occur to you that you're drip-fed what the Kremlin wants you to know ?

For some balance in this current situation ... this may be of help ...

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/investigators-from-chemical-weapons-watchdog-to-arrive-in-uk

Russia is acting with hostility, in a manner which contravenes international law, and obviously, there will be countries across the world concerned for their own security, who'll act to preserve it. Russia needs, now, to understand that foreign powers will not stand idly by and just let the threat go unanswered.

You can stand on the side of reputability and decency. Or, you can continue to stand with the aggressors, and follow meekly behind those whose unspoken mantra is 'Might is Right'. Papokarlo, finally make your choice.

Look behind you, before doing so ....

this will be tomorrow, then you will see new information that the OPCW is investigating, then you will hear that the OPCW is processing the information, then you will hear something else, but the results you will not see, believe me. just like with the plane shot down over Ukraine MH17

11 EU countries do not agree with Theresa may, and are waiting for the end of the investigation

let me remind you that the substance "Novichok" so it was just developed in America in 1998(This is described in the book of Vila Mirzoyanova, which shows the formula of a substance "A234" and so on)I already gave a link on YouTube

you will be fed Breakfast that tomorrow or the day after tomorrow will be the results.

Drummond

03-27-2018, 01:07 PM

this will be tomorrow, then you will see new information that the OPCW is investigating, then you will hear that the OPCW is processing the information, then you will hear something else, but the results you will not see, believe me. just like with the plane shot down over Ukraine MH17

11 EU countries do not agree with Theresa may, and are waiting for the end of the investigation

let me remind you that the substance "Novichok" so it was just developed in America in 1998(This is described in the book of Vila Mirzoyanova, which shows the formula of a substance "A234" and so on)I already gave a link on YouTube

you will be fed Breakfast that tomorrow or the day after tomorrow will be the results.

The OPCW won't release its findings ? Are you serious ??

When they do -- will you apologise ?

By the way, you mention MH17. OK, check this out:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2905692/Is-proof-Russia-shot-flight-MH17-New-documentary-claims-plane-hit-Buk-surface-air-missile-launcher-operated-53rd-Russian-Air-Defence-Brigade.html

A report released by a German investigative group insists it was a Russian missile launcher that shot down flight MH17 in July killing all 298 passengers.

Searching For The Truth, a documentary produced by CORRECT!V, offers fresh testimonies from military experts, separatist fighters and residents of East Ukraine.

They have also collected photo, video and satellite evidence to produce a compelling account of how events unfolded on July 17 last year.

Their findings come just one day after pictures emerged of the Ukrainian air force pilot accused by pro-Russian rebels of being the man who shot the plane down.

The German investigative group claims the Malaysia Airlines passenger plane was shot down by a Buk surface to air missile launcher operated by the 53rd Russian Air Defense Brigade, Kyiv Post reports.

They say the the armed vehicle entered Ukraine to protect Russian armor that had been vulnerable to aerial attack earlier in the conflict - which erupted in April when Kremlin-backed militants seized several government buildings in the Donbas.

Speaking to CORRECT!V, military experts claimed only specially-trained troops acting as a tight and well-drilled unit could have operated the Buk.

They would have had just seconds, from when they sighted the plane, to switch on their radar and accurately fire the rocket.

Reporters working for the German investigative group travelled to the town of Snizhne in east Ukraine, held by Kremlin-backed separatists.

Several people they spoke to in the town described sights and sounds consistent with the launch of a Buk missile on the day flight MH17 crashed.

One witness went further, claiming he had seen the vehicle and then the missile shooting into the sky afterwards.

They said: 'They shot it down. The missile flew from here. We saw it, as it flew. I was in the yard and heard an explosion, a bang. It was a really loud bang. The tiles on my roof shook.

Gunny

03-27-2018, 01:11 PM

Papokarlo

03-27-2018, 01:16 PM

on this forum besides you three, there's someone else?

Gunny

03-27-2018, 01:32 PM

on this forum besides you three, there's someone else?Feel free to count the countries that have imposed sanction on Russia and allied themselves with Great Britain. Last I saw it was up around 14 or 15 or so, not 3. That's ENTIRE countries, not 3 individuals on a message board.

You are aware there's a thread on the mall fire in Russia, right? Maybe you could stop spinning in circles around a baseball bat long enough to comment? Be refreshing for you to address something you may know something about.

Drummond

03-27-2018, 09:44 PM

Feel free to count the countries that have imposed sanction on Russia and allied themselves with Great Britain. Last I saw it was up around 14 or 15 or so, not 3. That's ENTIRE countries, not 3 individuals on a message board.

You are aware there's a thread on the mall fire in Russia, right? Maybe you could stop spinning in circles around a baseball bat long enough to comment? Be refreshing for you to address something you may know something about.

The BBC reports that the count's up to 26 countries, Gunny. All 26 having been, if we believed our Russian friend, somehow 'hoodwinked' by us British....

Not included in that total is NATO itself. They, too, have taken their welcome action. Seven diplomats thrown out by them.

Russians REALLY need to drop their arrogance on this issue, and come clean. Admit wrongdoing, pledge to never repeat it. It's from a beginning like this, that something really worthwhile could be built.

Fat chance of that happening, though.